In the latest episode of our Useful Idiots podcast, Matt Taibbi and Katie Halper chat with guest Nathan Robinson on why we can’t ignore the differences between  presidential candidates Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren — even when they appear unified on the debate stage. Robinson expands upon his recent piece for Current Affairs, in which he argues a Warren nomination would actually be “very worrying.”

“Plans are nothing without building a movement,” Robinson tells the Useful Idiots hosts, “if there’s no movement behind you, then you can have the best plans in the world but all you’re going to have is the White House, and that’s it.”

Halper and Taibbi also play a game of ‘Who Said It: Hillary Clinton or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?’ Spoiler: former Iranian President Ahmadinejad is the one quoting Tupac.

You can find the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.