Getting harder to hide hypocrisy of the medium art takes. I really like his point about Scorsese et al. making the most evil murderous films and they are called masterful works of art, while rap(although I don’t think its always well done) when it follows suit, is attacked for advocating that evil.

It’s ok to write or direct a movie about the evils of humanity, but to rap about them it somehow becomes advocation? I can’t stand most rap music, but I still see how wrong this is.

Important points. However, most African-American men who are hip-hop artists (minus Common, Talib Kweli, Mos Def etc.)really don’t see that racism, sexism, (and homophobia) are the same damn thing. You can’t talk about one without the others.

This is a repetition of history: black women were excluded from the Civil Rights Movement. The leaders thought black feminism would fracture it. And, then Angela Davis got flack for criticizing the million-man march. Yes, people should speak and rap how they please. But maybe just maybe the hip hop community needs to look at how calling women bitches and ho’s is just as bad as the
censorship of culture/ music.

Grown ass men bragging about their wieners over pre recorded music. FUCKIN SAD!

Oh also Mr Banner the stalker police song is “Every Breath You Take” Nice try though. Rap Sucks dude and you know it. What`s wrong with singing?

I don’t think anyone has ever said that rap music isn’t “art.”

But rappers always claim that they are rapping about “reality.”

Also, Banner singled out only two of the Police’s songs out of a hundred that cover a huge range of subject matter.

Maybe Banner hasn’t listened to Johnny Cash’s Christmas album.

Actually, ‘every breath you take’ and ‘I’ll be watching you’ are both from a stalker’s vantage point. Just as ‘Roxanne’ is about a pathetic dude obsessed with a prostitute.

Banner’s rigth on every point…Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard, Hank Williams…all spent time in jail for drug use, fighting, etc. Yet, they still played to packed houses of church-going white folks @ the Grand Ole Opry. These figures get celebrated in all corners…despite their murder ballads and outlaw attitudes.

‘Art’ is almost always about ‘reality’ JJ, its just one-step removed.

And the treatment of hip hop versus movies is totally hypocritical. Anthony Hopkins talks about eating brains and liver and gets knighted and recieves an Academy Award. If a hip hop artist claims the same thing in a rap, we get Congressional hearings.

good points, on topic.

i’m not going to try to defend all the stuff country musicians have done in the past, but they have always expressed regret, unlike rappers who just brag about it.

and to use the police as an example of a critically acclaimed band with scandalous lyrics is just plain uninformed.

this guy is genius
these are all incredibly valid points.
yes a lot of rap sucks, and this dance stuff and money rap. but when it’s used in conscious form (common, kanye west, talib kweli, mos def etc) it is an amazing art form
so there are some bad rappers, and they should be censored. as for the ones who talk about real things, if they feel the need to swear and talk bout real things, let them. people get shot everyday, it’s not rap’s fault. people do drugs everyday, it is again not rap’s fault
this whole thing is ridiculous
GO DAVID BANNER

He’s right.

word. gotta say big ups to Dave B over here. keep it real

Not to be off subject but his eyes are a little glazed over and red..Great speech though…

I’m not impressed nor convinced. From where I stand it’s not that alot of current rap music just mentions or describels the issues on trial here. It’s that there’s nothin’ else to it more than half of the time. Also, a lot of violent and derogatroy rap music leans towards glorifying negative and degrading topics rather than portray them accurately as, well… shitty. This sounds like it came from a High School debate club. The points are momentarily reasonable @ best. Plus degrading women in rap songs is completely ignorant and ogre-ish. I don’t care what you’re talkin’ about. Barreling people down to stereotypes is wrong and I think black people should know that already.

Wow, my respect for David Banner just increased tenfold. Smart man.

This guy is fucking cool. The problem “society” has with Hardcore Rap is that they don’t get it and their kids fucking LOVE IT.

The other side of this is that so much of hip hop (like pop, rock, country,metal) is total GARBAGE and there are only a handful of ARTISTS that are also popular. So a crappy country act is only offensive to people who like good country music. A crappy rapper is offensive (1) becuase he sucks and (2) because he give the haters exactly what they want: a reason to condem all rap. If there were more David Banners, this would be less of an issue of language and more an issue of art.

Grow up Peter Pan!

Oprah a “Black Leader”??? NOT! She’s much more a combination exploiter/manipulator of her people – same as all other “Black Leaders” who run to the scene just to make a buck/get a picture taken with her culture. All talk and NO ACTION, no resolutions-no results, other than lining their own $$$pockets$$$ at the expense of the poor and underpriveleged! C’mon people – she’s worth BILLIONS and makes more $$$BILLIONS$$$ annually! There she is – a priveleged African-American TV Media icon – crying on TV about how horribly the NEW ORLEANS citizens were treated and abused – she could have just as easily written off a couple hundred $$$MILLION$$$[not even a drop in her bucket!] as “Charity” and appointed her “staff” to personally allocate to each family a huge bundle of $$$ to make a new start – she would have recouped it easily and quite fast. [If the people awarded the $$$ misspent it, then, too bad for them.] Oprah lacks the common sense to really HELP the impoverished, yet, she has no reservations about $$$-exploiting-$$$ them on her TV show for $$$-ratings-$$$. Coincidentally, her TV ratings went off the roof with her exploitation of the hurricane’s victims. She also could have easily and successfuly courted her wealthy peers[all cultures] for $$$ to donate to each family’s financial welfare recovery and rehabilitation after the disaster, but, again she lacks common sense. Oprah would rather blame the government and publicly bathe/decorate herself with her $$$BILLIONS$$$. More white culture celebrities have continued the ongoing struggle to help/aid the New Orleans refugees than Oprah and her cult of hypocritical “Black Leaders”.

I used to love rap music. These days I feel as the the quality of rap music out right now is terrible and many of rappers simply recycle each other’s songs.
But despite this, David Banner has a point. Rappers should be allowed to say what they want, because all it is is an expression of art, just like movies, like Banner says. I also agree with Banner’s point about Oprah. She never supports black artists unless they are PC and do it in a way that won’t offend anyone. The same way she helped to sabotage Dave Chappele’s career, she is trying to sabotage what’s left of rap music.

I will always be a fan of rap music. Not because of the artist necessarily, but simply because of the simplicity of the craft. Rap music/the art of hip-hop was founded on the principle that a DJ would have a turntable, a microphone, and an emcee. Nine times out of ten the emcee couldn’t allude the environment he was in, let alone not talk about that environment through verse. Folks in the industry who stick to that foundation, oftentimes do well. Those who don’t, sometimes do well, and to the detriment to the craft on a whole, exposes a jaded impression of the art form, i.e., the misoginy, crime, gunplay, etc..etc..

I agree with David Banner on a lot of fronts, especially the artistic integrity of the craft and the mixed signals the culture sends us in comparing American Cinema and American Music, namely hip-hop.

I’ll sum this whole spill like this; to understand the culture is to understand the foundation. The perversion of any culture happens when the art becomes engrossed in the checks and balances of capital gains. The art goes from art to pop art, to mass produced indifference. Along the way, exploting the true art form and using the small number of zealots to disease the one modern day speaking/teaching vessel for the poor in this country, with pictures of self-inflicted ill-content and social neglect. I hope Banner get’s that degree and does his thing. A real intelligent brother…

deepcritique.blo gspot.com

See what alot of you all don’t understand is that he is not a joe blow rapper. He knows his shh. And Does his research!

***************** ***************
He was SGA (Student Gov Assioc) President at University of Southern Miss.
**************************** ****

Check ya resume before you judge!

AMERICA = Hypocrits

Hip Hop = Big Money

Congress = Full of Shhhh

You don’t remember 12 years ago, Congress was trying to ban GANGSTA RAP, what happen. NOTHING! And it all went down in that same room! Can’t wait to see what part of hip hip they will ban in 12 more years!

Would they rather have blacks killing and selling drugs in real life or rappin bout it.

First. There are three different types of art forms:

1) Rap. 50 Cent, Snoop, Nelly and a host of others do. Rap is what you’ll hear when you turn on that popular urban radio station on the way home.

2) Hip-Hop. This is what you’ll hear when you purchase an album by these same artists and a song comes on that you’d never expect to hear on the radio. Some rappers make Hip-Hop and release it on a mixtape or include it on an album but you rarely see it on TV or on the radio.

3) Real Hip-Hop. This is the stuff that is ground-breaking and yet still true to the original concept of hip-hop which is making a vanguard statement usually from the perspective of a young disadvantaged American.

It’s important that people know and study the difference between the three.

Also, there’s no need to talk about how most rap sucks because most movies suck, most TV sucks, most porn sucks (literally), most radio sucks, most jobs suck, etc…you get the point.

It’s just clear to me that the real problem is rooted in the record industry and not the artist’s themselves. The next Rakim and the next Bob Dylan are both out there somewhere but the record labels wouldn’t know them unless they had Simon Cowell praising their names.

not to mention that he says “jack a boo” more than once.

Who made David Banner the spokesman for rap music? He hasn’t been relevant for two or three years now…

RRD, I find it touching the trouble you went to to cleanup “Jumbo’s” work. If one word in anything I write is amiss, the whole thing is thrown in the crapper, never to be heard from again.

@ Deep

David Banner has two Masters degrees

“That’s how we fucking talk. ‘Shit, man, fuck, man, fuck the police, man. Yo, what up, what’s going down in the ‘hood today, shit is fucked up where I’m from.”

He’s putting those degrees to good use, I see!!!

Shut up Banner! You stupid country bumpkin. Go back to the sticks. You don’t talk for me or half the Black community. SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

OK, I might need to eat cheese. I just read THIS article, after reading another at a site that wasn’t as detail. Banner does have some valid points here. I have never been a fan of the few songs I’ve heard, and I DON’T like the use of bitch and ho so much in rap.

Rap is interesting. It’s just like rock. When Rap started, it was such a revolutionary and innovative genre of music, describing the hard life they had to put up with, and exposing a lot through then-questionable ways. Raps with the theme of “fight the power” are tons better than something along the lines of “I shoot G’s, smoke weed, and sleep with bitches and hos” and brag about it. Yet the former threatens the institution, while the “institution” likes the latter because it promotes a stereotype. I dunno, but yea… just my opinion.

But when rappers are promoting their music as reality, there is a difference from movies who don’t promote that.

I don’t care that he was president of SGA at his school (whoopty doo…want a cookie?), he’s not one of those “decent” artists he speaks of (Common, Talib, etc.). He’s an idiot looking to make a dollar. If he thinks Oprah and older blacks, don’t speak to the youth, he has nothing to worry about. He can continue making music about women getting their coochies wet so the kids can have something to look forward to.

I don’t listen to a lot of mainstream rap but he is right. Why not hod hearin gs on violence in all art forms instead of singling out rap??? It is like those towns that want to ban kids from wearing sagging pants but not ban women wearing revealing clothes or people wearing torn jeans which are more revealing than sagging pants…even though I HATE that look on guys.

Congress – bunch of hypocritical toe tappers!

IF you ask me rap has set black people back, its glamorized drug dealing, murder and dennogration to women…yet this retard defends it because glamorizing these things has made him rich…No one would throw such a big ass fuss about their crapy music if it wasnt for the fact that the ones singing it are also acting it out….”gangsta rap” is crap followed by crap…go write something real you peice of shit

You know, everyone seems to forget what this is really all about. This is about painting black women as bitches, whores, sluts, golddiggers and anything else so called hip hop “artist” care to paint us as, degrading us like so much used toilet tissue, all the while painting themselves as humanitarians. This is about taking away the view of a black woman as a human being, a living breathing entity, and not so much whole sale slop, to be used by black men to earn a dime from the very same folks on this post; whites. How can calling a black woman bitch, whore, slut be art? Who is David Banner to paint every black woman as such? Or any hip hop “artist” for that matter? Is he the arch angel of God that he knows that this is who she is? If everyone in the ghetto is calling black women by these names, doesn’t it mean that he should be correcting them not joining them? All David Banner and the rest of hip hop is saying is this; we have found out that by degrading black women in a way in which they cannot defend themselves, and in a way that shows their degradation by us as black men, and in imagery that is insulting, disgusting and pornographic, which sells to the population with the most money, we want to continue as we have because not only does it make us money, it’s our freedom of speech. We don’t feel as if we have an obligation to portray black women in any realistic light whatsoever, as that does not add money to our pockets, nor to the pockets of our white masters, the record moguls we slave to. Black women should just sit down and shut the fuck up because we have finally found a way to use their black asses in a way that enriches us; writing lyrics like bitch I know; making sex objects out of women for years at BET; showing them in thongs and nipple covers, cavorting around with black men covered from head to toe in baggy clothing, showing nothing; Tip Drill; chinging a credit card card down a black woman’s butt cheeks; yes Nellie, you will be forever remembered for that; showing the world that the only thing a black woman is good for is being ready for sex, any time, any where, any place, and with however many men we please; we want to be able to continue the degradation, and to hell with black women and what they have to say, it’s all art. David Banner, in essence, is saying that I don’t want to be an adult, I want to be forever 16, for who but a 16 year old could write such lyrics? Who but a 16 year old could ask to be excused for the imagery of black women as sexual jungle bunnies? As no more than a lascivious and lewd animalistic being? Only little boys would whine and cry in this way when they know they’ve been caught doing things they know are past them, when they know they need to put aside cursing women and begin to become men and respect not just black women but themselves. Only little boys would whine at being told they must now put away their “toys” and become men, and act as a man would act, not as a little boy, snickering behind his hand and curing adults. That is what must happen if hip hop “artists” want to be respected. They must put aside their degradation and misogynistic views of women, and become part of the human race. If they want respect they’re going to have to earn it. You’re not a humanitarian if you don’t treat one half of the race, and part of the race you belong to as so much garbage to be discarded and thrown away. Until you do this, I cannot consider you as men, for how can I when you degrade and disrespect me before the rest of the world? It doesn’t work that way, and the sooner you accept this fact the sooner hip hop will grow and become respected for the incredible black created musical force that it can be, and not the destructive force of children.

I think the points are valid. As usual, DB is causing quite a stir amongst the masses for engaging in dialogue. I say it’s just as good that he encourages comments as it is that he makes valid points about the direction lots of people take with the music who quite often, don’t really buy or listen to the music, but use it to make a name or platform for themselves as a means to an end.

Brilliant, DB, go on and slang some more truth.

ya i rock and rap are alot a like. the only thing i see when people complain about rap is hiding racism using one extreme case

This dude is so delusional to me. His arguments are not even worth discussing. I’m a fan of hip hop but he’s definitely not doing a good job of defending it.

David Banner: You put Common on there, and Common don’t call women bitches and ho’s, so you’re not talking about him, so he shouldn’t have to defend something he does not do.

Common’s lyrics from Testify:
“The court awaited as the foreman got the verdict from the bailiff
Emotional outbursts tears and smeared makeup
He stated, he was guilty on all charges
She’s shaking like she took it the hardest
A spin artist, she brought her face up laughing
That’s when the prosecutor realized what happened
All that speaking her mind testifying and crying
When this bitch did the crime- the queenpin…”

dude…you’re a moron. Commmon is only calling one particular women a bitch (in this case a women who framed somebody.

There is a world of difference in using “bitch” to express one particular person and throwing the term around and applying it with no context to random women.

Big Difference. I mean, come on, are you really suggesting that Common’s music is negative in nature. That is really what needs to be brought up. Who cares about language…what is the message.

What Banner doesn’t seem to grasp is that, while he complains of the blatent racism inherent with the ciritisms of hip-hop, HE IS REINFORCING THOSE STEREOTYPES HE SEEMS FRUSTRATED WITH. Nobody really thinks any of these guys are doing what they rap about (except the stupid teengers buying the image.

It’s all postering, and while we get that. Old white people don’t. the situation is as much rappers fault as anybody.

Do you people really think rap songs are the only place women are called bithces. How come there’s only a dispute and it’s only dagrading when black women are called bithces and hoes. What about when we say crackers? Why don’t you tell the women in the video’s to not be in them? It’s like this, a real person is going to be a real person regardless of what the masses think. It’s pretty sad when folks want to focus on rap music as killing a generation, when George Bush is killing a nation. Pull the blinders off people, “IT’S STILL BIGGER THEN HIP HOP”

The whole misunderstanding is really much more of a generational thing than a race thing. The older generation just doesn’t GET hip-hop, just as their parents didn’t GET rock n roll. Its the same thing. This too will pass.

As soon as the day comes those fuckers who’ve fuck shit up for future generations are gone rap will be universally accepted (except of course in religious sects, but you can never please them anyway.)

Stop pulling the race card.

David Banner is a weak minded individual full of red herrings to defend his weak failings. Lame Lame Lame. Of course, throw in the good name of a rapper/artist because you can come up with a reason why anyone should head ear to your baseless cause. Puh lease.

Who died and made this clown the spokesman for hip-hop? He’s proof positive that there’s such thing as an educated fool.

Black women are finally waking up and realizing that the joke is on us with gangsta rap.

These so-called ‘artists’ are no different than the africans who sold other blacks to the white slave traders for a few trinkets and a beer. David Banner is a nothing but HIGH PRICED SLAVE.

David Banner and his followers can feel free to continue, but let me just say this:

If the racist police beat your ass, don’t suddenly start calling black women by our real names, asking for help.

IF the IRS audits you and yanks your money, don’t come to black women looking for us to bail you out.

If you find yourself aged out, locked out, and shut out of the financial game by your white slavemasters, don’t call on black women to help you out.

When you’re beat up, tazed, or shot by police, don’t ask us to march in your defense.

If you’re shot by one of your rap-rivals, don’t ask for our blood to transfuse into yours to save your life.

When some racist pig calls YOU outside of YOUR name, we will say “Freedom of Speech, asshole”.

David Banner is a brilliant fool. He has made his point loud and clear. People from the hood don’t know any better. That’s why we incessantly curse in our daily conversations about how fucked up our shit is. We are forced to brag about our bitches and gawdy jewels. I have 6 masters degree and 2 doctorates!!! But my rap demo only prove that I’m a smart dumb nigga.

david banner beat my wife with an iced out chain!!! somebody dooo sumthing!!!

TO BE AS REAL AS DAVID BANNER WAS:
FUCK THESE BLOGGERS WHO SAY SHIT ABOUT BLACK WOMEN AND NAME CALLING

TO BE HONEST- Any fuckin girl can be name-called if thats what they are aBOUT!
If a girl is caught stealing- she’s a theaf
If a girl is seen on stage at a strip joint… shes a Stripper
If a girl is caught suckin dick behind a music trailor on set… she’s called a ho
No matter what the fuck color a girl is… she can still be called for what she is or does. I hear this music as a female, and I don’t take the shit to heart or take it offensively because I know I’m not in the categories with “hoes and tricks”
I know who they ARE TALKING ABOUT- THeir video vixen hoes that hook up with every rapper on set and get some. They aren’t pin pointing every female, or every black female. You’re analyzing their music too hard and assuming they’re talkin about every female… it’s the NASTY ONES WHO ARE GETTING EXPOSED. They don’t talk shit about everyone… just the girls who call them up at night for sex because their a rap star… the sick nasty girls who degrate themselves and then they get put on blast.. WHY IS THAT WRONG? Thats like saying a naked dancing female on stage is NOT A STRIPPER- “DONT CALL US THAT”- NOOOOOOO. The rappers rap the shit they do from the shit they see and deal with. Living in the rap-star world is a whole lot different than modern day suburbia… every thing isn’t getting sugar coated so SUCK IT UP and get over it. Times change-?? or they just become more realistically exposed.

It seems I need to cast light on David Banner’s situation. A lot of event in history wouldn’t be brought to light or notice if it wasn’t a “slap to the face” or a blatantly or loudly presented. I think the reason David Banner is getting all this press is because he isn’t the average “don’t know shit because I don’t know any better” Black person that people keep trying to make him out to be. He makes a cotrivercial statement and when people question him about it he gives an informed yet real response that totally explains what he was trying to get across. And then people say oh you could have just said that and replys but you wouldn’t have listened. That is what David Banner is trying to show. No matter how the lack of caring on the government’s part is shown no one seems to see it. So I have to do what ever I can to get this point across. Honestly how long would it take for you to realize that no matter how many times an issue is brought up and no matter how it is presented to the table, whether in its pure form or “this shit is fucked up” to a detailed list of cause and effect on the people. And still have it looked over or even brushed under the rug, to realize and come to terms that to get a point across you have to slap people with it? I don’t understand why people continue to attack the messenger before they even grasp the gist of the message being given. If you want to understand why David Banner is so upset and belligerent, go live in any ghetto in the U.S. proclaimed the best country in the world for a few days. Go talk to the people who are really trying to make it. Talk to the drug dealers who are selling to feed their kids. Because they can’t get a job. Because everything is being moved over seas. People always say “oh but there is always somewhere to get a job”. Well do me a favor and place these job opening somewhere the people who need them can find them. If you are gonna bitch how they do things you have to spoon feed them the “Right” way.Because evidently the things you see are not that clean to them. And Then you can say how dare David Banner say the things he does. What I like about David banner is he actually tries to put light to the system. And when he’s song about helping and healing don’t hit the charts at all but buddy butt chicks does. You damn right it is his responsibility as an artist and a public figure to point it out. When Kanye West told an interviewer “George W Bush don’t care about black people”, everyone was shocked and appalled and called him just a crazy N!@@#&. Because where does he get off saying something like that. But now we have context. After Katrina hit almost 2 months past before the President decided to go and see what was wrong in New Orleans. I’m not even gonna put the length of time it took for them to start looking for people trapped or getting water out. Or that while the water was still coming in people where making due. If I am stuck in a natural disaster and Kmart is flooding yes I am going to get me some stuff that I might need. I would buy it but there is no one there to check me out. But not a work week has passed since the California fires and the President has been there. Not only was he there but he decided to deem all area affected by the fire a federal disaster area. Meaning people effected can receive government support for their loses. I could not find anything on New Orleans or the other areas being deemed a Federal Disaster area. FIMA is responsible for taking care of that it seems. Did I mention there have never been any recording of a storm like Katrina. Yet every 5 years or so 2-3 counties in California are taken out by forest fires. So why does the President see it necessary to hope on a plane and run to San Diego within a week and declare it a federal disaster area. Not nearly as many lives or property was affected by these fires as Katrina was felt in the southern region. Can I say it now? George W. Bush does not care about black people. But this is yet another situation where the event is over looked by who carries the message. So before you decide to comment on something you only hear about on the news or read in a magazine do your home work and know about the character of the person you are blasting.

Oh yeah, and for all my black sisters out there who make this complete argument about demeaning black women. what do you think to yourself when you see that chick trying to get into a rap stars trailer. or flashing her tits to them. or even the strippers on stage where their job is to remove that guys money from him.lose the bias. you think the same thing that the rapers say. that is what makes them artist not one stereotype began with hip hop. yeah they give them cool names like booty call and tip drill but the thing has always been there. I see women calling each other bitches and hoes more then I have men doing it so think before you cast blame. and i am so sick and tired of hearing this crap about how rappers demean Black women and then not 2 seconds later they demeaned women are shacking their asses to tip drill or “My favorite” Freak-A-leek. but then that argument comes up “but thats not the point” so enlighten me. whats the point of bringing it up if you like it?