no one can tell me this is the real pumpkins– it’s just corgan and the drummer. it’s no more the pumpkins than Zwan was.

These RS critics really seem to have it out for Billy. Did he cancel his subscription or something? Jeez…

look they should have just came back and did a tour not a new album fuck that zegist fuckin sucks when they play at voodoo i hope they arent like that

Anyone who thinks this isn’t the Pumpkins needs to realize one important thing: Smashing Pumpkins is/was/ and will always be about Billy Corgan. James Iha and D’Arcy Wretzky’s contributions were minimal to non-existent.

Ali

Hey, Anonymous;

FYI- Every Pumpkins record you’ve EVER heard is just Billy Corgan and Jimmy Chamberlin (with the exception of Mellon Collie…some of the live tracks were left on that one). Corgan overdubbed all the bass tracks, guitars and vox on all of the classic stuff, though. So, really Zwan was no more Zwan than the Pumpkins ever were, either. It’s just Corgan’s way of doing things – kinda like J Mascis.

K_Angell: I agree. Everything I’ve read lately about the Pumpkins from RS has been negative. These concerts are not intended to be a regular Greatest Hits show. I’d guess that is what they fall tour will be about. They are more low-key shows, mostly for the die-hard fans. If RS doesn’t like the pumpkins, then why mention them?

Sounds like a typical Pumpkins show, for better or worse. Each time I’d seen them before seemed like there were moments you wish they could bottle and repeat, while others were songs that would ramble for far too long.

Billy is a head-case and ego manaic, but also does write some killer tunes. The way he insulted the Lolla ‘94 crowd at the Gorge, even though they put on a killer set, still fuels my anti-Billy fire. His connection to Courntey makes me gag. Long live the dayz of Gish & Sim. Dream & Pieces A. & parts of Mellon Collie. Iha rulz! Check out the Silversun Pickups if itchin’ for some pumpkin-esq jams.

To all the Pumpkins fans, yes we know it was all Billy but lets also be honest, he’s fallen far from his heyday. Yes he WAS the pumpkins but he has become increasingly self-indulgent in his music as was evidence by every album since Mellon Collie. I understand your dedication to Billy but also realize that his music has changed, not just because of the different names but because of the progression his life/style/methodology has taken. I will never care that Billy was ego-maniacal or domineering or whatever because what he produced speaks for itself but the recent music is not anywhere near his former work.

Caught myself thinking about Iha’s solo record last night.

People need to quit pissin and moanin…..if ya wanted to hear “Today” (my least favorite song they ever did, next to disarm)put on Siamese Dream. Billy once said that if you dont like something hes doing, then your probably not a fan. He isnt doing it for YOU. Dont buy the record, dont go to the shows, and quit yer bitchin.

In all honesty, they’re as meaningless today as they were ten years ago. Smashing Pumpkins never really amounted to much outside of an overrated studio project that wasn’t worth crap live. This, of course is merely one man’s opinion, albeit it a well informed opinion. Unless Billy Corgan has learned to sing in key and play decent guitar, this entire “second coming” is both a huge waste of time and money.

MOST OVERRATED BAND OF ALL TIME. CORGAN IS ONE OF THE WORST SINGERS IN THE HISTORY OF MUSIC AND HE’S RIDICULOUSLY PRETENTIOUS. ATROCIOUS

people ask to much for $25. It’s always better not to expect anything at all.

Zeitgiest rocks

I left mid-set,ABSOLUTE CRAP!

Man, do we suck! Of course, we always have. What did you expect? I’m an arrogant, talentless prick.

It’s going to be so much fun to watch this whole thing just collapse in front of everyone. By the end of the tour, they’ll be playing to three people at Honest Bob’s Used Car Dealership.

I think what’s happening is the world WANTS this thing to fail. Why? I couldn’t tell you. But it’s an awful shame to just dismiss it all for whatever personal reasons you may have. Albums like Zeitgeist (and for that matter, Machina and Adore) take time. They’re layered, deep, intense orchestrations that take effort to appreciate.

But that’s what music is all about. I doubt you all would be posting on the RS message board if top 40 was your game. Indulgence and ego is fantastic in music. I’m a musician and recognize that if there was no ego in play, then half of the boundaries that have been pushed never would have been explored in the first place.

They could have made a record that sounded exactly like everything else on the radio today. But no, they made a record for them (or Corgan – whatever). It sounds like the Pumpkins doing the Pumpkins, circa 2007. It feels like a nautral progression of their art. I don’t see why that’s a bad thing. With everyone else harkening back to old times to find their inspiration, the Pumpkins are moving forward – something that should be celebrated, not lambasted and loathed.

God Bless them. They’re TRUE musicians.

I think a lot of you people are talking unintelligently. The new album is the greatest thing in years, a retreat back to the good ol’ days before the music industry became an embarassment…. I wouldn’t care what the smashing pumpkins played or how long they played it for, I would pay a hundred bucks to see corgan play that guitar, and Chamberlin smash those skins…. not to mention Ginger is hot, and Bring The Lights is the greatest SP sound I think I’ve ever heard!

Simply Smashing Pumpkins Frank Zappa records in rewind mind. Wake up whirled. It’s different and a change.

Simply Smashing Pumpkin Records in Frank Zappa invades Billy’s guitar!

You people are crazy. The new album rocks pretty damn hard, and there are definitely some really great songs on it. If “Today” and “Disarm” are your favorite songs by the group, then you probably aren’t really a Pumkins fan.
I’ve seen them twice, and out of the 70+ shows that I have been to, those
two shows rank in my top 3. By the way, Billy is one the best rock guitarists out there.
What are you people going to say next, that Nirvana Nevermind was not that great of an album, and did not change music’s course?
If the Pumpkins come anywhere close to wher I live on their tour, I’m there.

zeitgeist rocks…

I am drunk, but the pumpkins rock!

I seen the Pumkins in Vancouver in 1998 or 1999, it was forgetable. Worst live show ever, Great studio band. Maybe Billy should be a full time shitty poet and part time session guitarist for othe r shitty live bands.

More bands should take not of how a Smashing Pumpkins show is how a concert should be. They played past 1 am, at least you get your money’s worth. NO OTHER BAND PLAYS SHOWS THIS LONG and exciting. And if you don’t like Blue Skies Bring Tears live, then you are retarded, it’s not the same as the Machina version. Not on this tour or on any. People need to get over Billy Corgan the person and just listen to the music.

Zeitgeist is amazing. I love it. I will love it live. I dont listen to it for the memories of the mid-90’s, i listen to it becase its an amazing new album.

I was as big a pumpkins fan as there was. I went to high school during Gish and Siamese Dream. I remember the giddy anticipation for SD when I was a senior and it was, and still is, one of the greatest albums of all time. The sheer tension and musical pageantry that it lives through is a rare cultural and musical moment in time capture on an album. That being said, when MCIS came out, I was hoping for greatness but got an OK album. Gone were the groundbreaking guitar solos and sheer chaotic genius of Billy Corgan’s melodic discipline. Zeitgeist is utter crap. People who listen to it and now claim that it rocks are washed out soulless monkeys who are resurrected from Billy Corgan’s rotting dead musical direction. It truly saddens me to see what his music has become. I pity anyone who “enjoys” this new album for they cannot possibly appreciate what Gish and Siamese Dream ultimately were. Sad.

Those that hate Billy should move on to something else. Pumpkins rock! Always have…always will!

First off, you know if the new album sounded like the old stuff, you’d all be complaining that it all sounds the same, so just embrace it. The Pumpkins or yes, mainly Billy have been around for a long time, so of course the music is going to be a little different each time around. As for all the complaints that Zeitgeist is no good and too much noisy guitar and blah, blah, blah…hey guys, it doesn’t all have to be deep and profound all the time. It may not be the best rock album ever, but it’s not bad.

Hey Ami, wow, you need to seek professional help ASAP. The fact that you seem to base your entire life existince on whether or not the Pumpkins can re-create the “Gish” or Siamese Dream” sound is quite sad. It’s just music people. And, it is GOOD music.

Ami,

It’s pretty lame that you think that anybody who actually likes this album can, in no way, appreciate their older material! Good for you, you enjoyed albums from 15 years ago but, last I checked, this is 2007! At least he’s trying and, personally, this is better than I expected out of the album! Instead of criticizing people for liking what they like, why don’t you just shut your mouth and live solely in the past. Hell, how could Billy live up to YOUR lofty expectations anyway? You are nothing but a fairweather fan who expects ONE thing out of the band and if they can’t deliver that, you bash it and leave them behind! Personally, I think you have it backwards anyway. My attitude is, if you can’t at least APPRECIATE the fact that Billy’s at least trying then that’s just sad. Do you still wear birkenstocks? Do you own My So Called Life on dvd? It’s time to move on, I’m afraid.

I hate when people go to a show and all they wanna hear are the songs they play/played on the radio. Dang, on most of the albums that I own… I usually skip those songs cuz I’ve heard them so much. They are good, but just because they are the songs chosen for the radio, doesn’t mean they’re “the best” songs on the album.

Siamese Dream is my favorite Pumpkins album. I’d say Today and Disarm are great, but if I was at that show, I’d be pumped to hear Geek U.S.A, Rocket, or Mayonaise.

I guess what I’m really trying to say is, I agree with a comment I saw on here… if you are dying to hear Disarm or Today, you are not a true Pumpkins fan, so who cares what you think.

One more thing:

Who cares that it’s not the original Pumpkins lineup? The original Pumpkins didn’t get along and now this is what the band is. A lot of famous bands throughout the years have gotten new members and everything is cool. Weezer has changed bass players about 3 times, but they are still Weezer. Heck, there is a band called “Haste the Day” and they changed their lead singer/screamer, but they are still “Haste the Day”. Get over it.

One more thing:

If people like/liked an album by a band, they shouldn’t expect every album after that to sound just like that album. What’s the point of that?!? If you want to hear that sound and have that musical experience… listen to THAT album! Siamese Dream was a great album, but if the Pumpkins made every one of their albums sound just like that, they’d have “Nickelback-itis”. HAHA!

I don’t understand how any Pumpkins fans can fail to like Zeitgeist. It’s Corgan’s best work since Adore.

I would much rather hear something new each album, even if i didn’t like it. Who wants Re-hash after Re-hash of the same album? There are things i love about SD, there are diffrent things i love about Adore. And that is one of the things i love about the pumpkins. So if your a radio hits fan, just stop bitching and go buy rotten apples, and don’t bother to go to the shows so you don’t have to leave your bubble.

You know what, those of you who choose to write negative comments about the pumpkins should take a look at the ticket that YOU decided to buy. Thats the difference between people that have evolved and see and understand the beauty in music people make. Its the art that they have created, for them. Bands don’t write songs for our pleasure they write it for theirs and when it finds people then thats a connection. Theyre doing 11 shows in SF, if you want the best of pumpkins every night go buy the cd. Instead of the negative focus on the positive. Damn, ive seen tool 4 times this past year and not once did i get pushit or third eye, of course those are my two favorites but the band plays what the band is feeling. deal with it and if you dont like it, dont buy a ticket. Im sick of these damn radio edit fans!

Corgan and Chamberlin were the only essential members of the band to begin with anyway. So what’s the big deal? If you think Iha or Darcy wrote or contributed in any way, you’re wrong.

Word.

I dont blame the band members for not interacting much. You’ve got two brand new members, probably huge fans as well, who are probably a little intimidated playing with someone like Corgan. Anyone who has performed know this kind of nervousness. The pumkins are great and have evolved. Don’t judge them from one live show. Corgan is an artist and what he brings to us is his artistic perspective on the world. We should take it or leave it. Not judge it.

I miss the Pumpkins if the 90’s. it was actually about the music and not Billy Corgan masturbating to his own electro fuelled acoustic guitar songs. I don’t even recognise the Smashing Pumpkins anymore, maybe they shouldn’t have reformed..at this rate they will tarnish their reputation.

To consider the quality of the present Smashing Pumpkins, let’s compare their RS concert review with that of another white-hot band currently on tour.

First, the Pumpkins:

“Expectant fans soon grew restless: During the moody “Blue Skies Bring Tears” from 1999’s less popular Machina/The Machines of God, a heckler at the back repeatedly yelled, “C’mon, play some music!”

Now, for the other band:

“Over two thrilling hours, Jack and Meg laid out their catalog in trash-candy collage form — stitching old riffs into new songs, teasing familiar melodies, improvising verses and balancing nostalgic rarities (“Wasting My Time”) with the majority of its new material.”

So, you decide which band is worth following.

Everyone in Rolling Stone may have something better to say about the ‘Pumpkins if they actually reported on the Orange Peel shows.The whole time they (all band members) grinned at each other and even “whispered” to eachother during songs. No one at the venue was rude at all, and the band loved Asheville.

Maybe the editors of RS mag. would have a bit more positive things to say about the ‘Pumpkins if they put forth even the slightest bit of spotlight on the Orange Peel shows.During the entire night in which I attended (the last of the residency), the band not only grinned to eachother, but they were laughing and “whispering” during songs. No rude audience members or harse lighting present either

I really gave the new Pumpkins cd a fair listen. Honestly, I wanted to like it. The album cover artwork reflects the music itself; it’s drowning in distortion and lacking the creative melodic hooks. Something is missing. I would like to see the Pumpkins in concert, but I’ll be there only to hear the the Gish, Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie greats of yesteryear. Sorry, Billy. Maybe the next album you do will capture that magic again.

It is sad that Barry Walters has to rely on a drunken heckler and a lighting rig to justify his disappointment that the SPs didn’t live up to his Siamese Dream-era expectations. Please put this tour in context – a band that still generates a fanbase that can sell out 9 shows in Asheville, NC and 12 shows at the Fillmore after not touring in 7 years and not having a critically acclaimed album in 10 years, not to mention that Zeitgeist is already a commercial success after the succession of commercial disappointments in Corgan’s Future Embrace, Zwan, and Machina. These first shows are to practice working live together as a new band and to fine-tune for a longer tour schedule. I saw two shows in Asheville and I can’t remember the last time a band with the type of name recognition as the Pumpkins charged $20 for a show, played 3 hours, a different set every night, and played several new (non-Zeitgeist) songs that they composed while in Asheville and they sounded damn good. I’m sure if Corgan et al decided to cut their set in half, played only the hit parade from SD and MCID and charged $80 a ticket, they wouldn’t have been heckled and would have gotten a good review from Mr. Walters. I’ll take a Pumpkins concert any day over a Police reunion tour or the alternative-rock-band-of-the-m oment (insert name) at a small venue. Like any true artist/poet/musician, Corgan reflects his own soul in his work which can come across as egotistical, stubborn, and self-absorbed, but it is rare to see an honest passion in one’s work and an intent to share it with his true fans. The cynics will say Corgan is only after adulation and/or money with his attempt to return to the Pumpkins sound of yore, but if this is the case, why isn’t he charging more for tix and playing fewer shows? Why isn’t he playing a set list that caters to the fare-weathered fans of the radio hits? Why is he bothering with 3-hour shows, which no one expects these days? Cut the guy a break!

I just wish everybody would get over Mellon Collie, Siamese Dream and so forth since it completely hinders their ability to see beyond those albums! I’m sorry, but I’ll take Adore over MCIS any day of the week seeing as how it is such an underrated album and people were so short sighted, and all they wanted were more Bullet With Butterfly Wings and 1979 and Billy didn’t give it to them. The same thing is happening now, they have made the closest thing to a roots album that they’ve ever done and people ARE BITCHING!!! Either shut up about the new album or enjoy it! If you don’t like it, move on…they’re obviously not YOUR band anymore!

To Shaggy,

With all due respect, Nirvanna and “Nevermind” are overrated. Cobain and his two bandmates had much help from Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden and other bands and singers at the time to wipe out hair metal. Nirvanna wasn’t the first band to bring alternative to the mainstream, either, as so many erroneously now claim. REM and the Pixies did that before anyone outside of Seattle’s city limits ever heard of Kurt Cobain. So did The Smiths in the 1980s, to a lesser degree. Nirvanna just were lucky to have a big MTV hit, that’s all. I’d take today’s lineup of the Pumpkins over Nirvanna in their prime any second of the year.

peace

The pumpkins are a far more interesting band than most, with an extremely varied range of sounds that they can pull off, sometimes with genius, sometimes not so much. The thing is that Billy cares a little bit more about making his music sound different than he cares about catering to the masses. Just so happened that for years and years SP’s music did appeal to the masses. All of this is why they now have idiots paying money to show up at their shows and complain about the song selection being played. They have idiots spending time campaigning around with complaints about Billy’s voice, his egotism, the contribution of his former bandmates. All of them, including RS, are missing the point. Billy is never going to conform for you people. So stop being bitter and hateful. It’s about time you and the others get off the wagon you got on in the MCIS era.

For those of you complaining about Billy’s voice, you have obviously missed the point, it’s not about his ability to hit octaves at perfect pitch, for a true pumpkins fan, Billy’s voice scratches the right nerve. Go to the opera or preferrably go see tool if it’s all about the voice for you.

For those of you saying that James and D’Arcy made no contribution. I think you are blinded by all the exposure Billy gets. The music of the original line up was a collaboration. James and D’arcy were there since the beginning of the band, you don’t think they had input? You don’t think they had a style? They didn’t have to stand out as technically brilliant performers, just like Billy’s voice didn’t have to stand out as technically brilliant. It was the combination of their individual styles that was magic. Why do you think Billy wanted them back so badly? Why do you think it’s been different ever since one element or another has been missing? — For those of you saying it’s not pumpkins. It’s very unfortunate that the band could no longer get along. It’s unfortunate that James and D’Arcy did not want to join in to ressurrect the band. They were welcomed and they declined, but as far as I know they’re not complaining about Billy and Jimmy filling in the line up and carrying on under the name of SP. If no one who’s been a member of the band is complaining, then I don’t see who else has the right to tell Billy what he’s allowed to call the band as it is now. Sure, the band has evolved, it’s not the same as it was in the 90’s. In fact a lot has evolved since the 90’s, you complainers should think about doing so yourself.

Zeitgeist is an ok album, but certainly is different then their old stuff.
Yes it isnt the same lineup but,I like their new stuff, and if you dont good for you.
Obviously, this isnt 1994 anymore,SP is different, and they arent going to be the same.

Melon collie is a masterpeice. Now SP are my favourite band of all time and its saddens me to see them trying to recapture the early days without resting on the fact that their raw early 90’s can not be topped. Keep trying billy, but the soul of the pumpkins is dead

Melon collie is a masterpeice. Now SP are my favourite band of all time and its saddens me to see them trying to recapture the early days without resting on the fact that their raw early 90’s can not be topped. Keep trying billy, but the soul of the pumpkins is dead

zeitgeist is a brilliant doom rock album… smashing pumpkins have always been brilliant, and now they have a wider range of different sounding albums, from grunge to pop to prog to industrial, and so on. they have expanded their sound further, and aren’t trying to re-do their old happy tunes. they’re moving on instead of trying to re-live the past, but no matter what zeitgeist sounded like, you all would have found fault with it, because obviously you weren’t ever willing to give the band a chance with comments like that. if you were open minded and went into this reunion with a positive attitude, you would see ho far billy has come… or maybe you actually don’t like it… if so, you have no taste in music.