As a persone that was born in england, and has had to deal with the goverment ran heath care systems. beleave me it is the worst . You can wate up to a year for hart bypass.For Moore to say that the english heath care system is better than the us system is a lie

Michael Moore lie, that could never happen.

There are good and bad experiences in every health care system. The issue is cost. If you are unlucky and have very costly health requirements, as my family has faced, then national free health care is essential. My brother had a football accident and is now a quadriplegic. He received care in Canada that we, as a family, could never have afforded to give him. I’ve had 2 operations from accidents, in the UK. Illness brings its own worries and obstacles. It has been a blessing that bankruptcy from medical care has not been one of those concerns.

No it’s not. What Michael Moore is saying is it’s better to have some social health care system than none at all. I live in Canada and I’ve lived in England and no system is perfect. But consider this, if I break my leg I go to the hospital and I don’t pay a dime. I walk out in a cast and crutches. So what if I have to wait. There’s no insurance premium it’s all paid for by the government.

Great argument, Peter –
“Yes Michael Moore lies but so what? politicians lie too”
I think it’s sad that you applaud something that you know to be mendacious.

Personally, I think skimming a review is easier and faster than watching some stupid online video. If I wanted to watch a bunch of talking heads, I’d use the television.

Yeah…the government is so great at running public schools, the DMV, or any other service. Let’s let them run health care. Oh, I almost forgot — the local, state and federal governments did a bang up job with Katrina.

And since the health care workers will be employees of the government, it will be impossible to fire ones for poor performance–just as it is now with public school teacher. And don’t forget the lovely government run unions that will “help” make decisions on how long they will work etc.

And, since the government will have a monopoly on service, why would it want to improve technology or it own service in order to compete, when there is no other competition? Great idea, there Mikey.

And one more thing…Michael Moore uses france as an example — never mind the fact that a few years ago, hindreds of people died in Paris, because the government medical community couldn’t handle all the heat stroke victims. Who knew it would be hot in the summer.

Damn. I wish I could watch that review, but I had to sell my graphics card to help pay for my knee surgery. Lol.

I’ll wait to actually see the movie before chiming in with an opion about it or Moore’s truthfulness.

But the argument that “government can’t do anything right, so please don’t demans that it provide healthcare” is lame. And I don’t believe for a second that profit-motivated anything = better. Expect more, demand more, do what you can to make it better. It’s an emergency when your house is on fire, and the fire department comes, no insurance needed. It’s an emergency when you’ve got cancer…but where’s the guarantee that someone will help you extinguish that fire?

Health care is never “free” as sometimes stated. Someone somewhere always has to pay for it. The movie is a nice bit of propaganda. As you watch it you feel manipulated. It certainly does not present the facts.

You get your news on Comedy Central? I see….

Where’s the flame war?

A reviewer for Rolling Stone should never worry about brain surgery nor be able to file a claim alleging stolen intellectual property. The reviewer fails to demand facts and allows lies from Moore because others allegedly do the same thing. Health care in America is so popular that people break into our country to get it. The real travesty is that I must pay for my own health care and the health care of all of the slobs that don’t.

And I don’t believe for a second that profit-motivated anything = better.
_____________________

I guess you were not around in the days when the phone service was a monopoly, were you?

Competition provides incentive to build a better mousetrap in order to attain more customers. It’s that simple. A saftey net for poor people will always been needed in this country (or any other) but it is a hollow argument to make the claim that our only option is what we have now or state run medicine. In fact, it is a bullsh!t argument.

I’ve seen the movie, and Moore presented it to the crowd. It’s great, and will surely put health care on the forefront of major political issues come 2008. The review by Travers is spot on

I love how Michael Moore is always called a liar by people who could never construct a solid arguement to prove their point. He’s not a conservative psycho, that means he’s a liar. He hates GW Bush, therefore he’s a liar. To quote one wise man, “wake up and smell what you shovelin’.” Personally I’m for the truth, and I support anyone regardless of their political affiliation, so long as they aren’t spewing fallacies and bolstering their agenda with pure BS. Too many people in this country, on both sides of the political spectrum, seem to be blinded and deafened by their party’s attitudes. The truth is getting harder and harder to find, and too many people are being corrupted by opinion that’s presented as fact. Politics in this country have become a disgusting scene of late, and I see no sign of that changing any time soon. Yeah, let’s make five more Fantastic Four sequels, that’s much better than films and filmmakers that attempt to discuss America’s important issues, or question our government’s decision making.

Chris J — how is it truthful to make a film about the economically flawed principal that a state run monopoly will provide better service and be “cheaper?” Since when, in the history of f*cking time, has a monopoly ever produced better service at a cheaper cost?!

And for what its worth – I am a Democrat. I hate George Bush.

the issue presented in this film is about trying to ensure that all americans have free, universal health care. how can anyone say that this is a poor idea? admittedly the system would have flaws, but there is no doubt that the positives would out weigh the negatives. and it can’t be considered a monopoly if it’s a government program

It isn’t a monopoly if its a government program? I’m sorry, the dictionary definition must be wrong then:

“exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices.”

Yes, Will, a government may have a monopoly.

And where is your proof that “admittedly the system would have flaws, but there is no doubt that the positives would out weigh the negatives.” How do you know this? Tell me, was phone service better or worse when there was only one provider? If you have to send something and you want to be certain that it gets there, do you send in via the government US mail, or do you use a private carrier like UPS or FEDEX?

The fact the Moore would posit the fiction that health care is better in Cuba (I have extended family there) than the US, illustrates what this film really is — utter nonsense.

If this movie does anything right it will highlight our healthcare systems flaws and leave us pondering what changes can be made to correct them. I’m hoping that’s what this film accomplishes. Let’s face the truth, no one can argue that our healthcare system is perfect. If this movie had been directed by someone else at least it would be judged fairly and without all of this pent up bias that people hold against Michael Moore.

Nobody is arguing that our healthcare system is perfect. But comparing it to Cuba’s? Maybe that’s why it pisses me off…since that crosses into the realm of the personal–and is so patently disingenuous, it borders on delusional or dishonest or both. I don’t really have anything against Moore, per se. But good god, Michael.

I’ll reserve judgement until I actually see the whole movie.

You do that.

Wait a min- I thought Moore releases his propaganda flicks during election years..

The cat scans are free in Canada and they aren’t in America. That’s a problem. Sure it’s not free and I am paying for it thru my income tax. But I have relatives that have had cancer treatment here that would have bankrupted an American family. The bottom line is the private sector includes something in medicare that the public sector does not. That is the need to make money. Therefore it will cost society more. I’ve heard that Canada spends 11 of it’s GDP on health care. While the USA spends 16 percent of it’s GDP on health care and when you get to 20 percent the country goes bamnkrupt. I think Michael Moore is right on once again.

With all due respect Allen, when was the last time Canadian medicine came up with a cutting edge treatment? When was the last time the Candian pharm industry came up with a blockbuster drug? No profit incentive means just that — no incentive.

10 out of the last 11 blockbuster drugs have come from American companies (the other one being from the EU) — there is a reason for that.

With respect to cost — America’s system is not perfect, nobody will argue that — it is highly regulated and insurance company’s are forced by law to offer the same programs — there is no ability to diversify products and services. That said, it is a falsity to postulate that the only other alternative to our current system is a wholly government run system like Canada’s. There are other options, and I doubt Michael Moore takes a very nuianced approach in this matter, given the Cuba stunt (infuriating to us folks who have relatives suffering under the current regime) and his insistence that the French system is beter than ours.

Hey Venezuelan Born -

Go back to Venezuela!!!!!

Hey Right-Win Sicko –

Is that all you got?

There are not that many things left in the UK that makes me feel proud but our National Health Service (NHS) is one of them. Every single person can go into the doctors and hospitals and can fixed and mended and you dont have to be rich to be healthy. Everyone is equal in that respect and its great. All the MM fils i have seen have been great and it should make Americans want to change things but instead all i hear is people slagging MM off.He didnt arm everyone and blow peoples brains out and he didnt bomb little kids in the middle east, so why vent all your anger at him?

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that Peter Travers is a gigantic hack.

Gentlemen, Let us not forget the fact thar Bob Dylan sucks!

Eh, Mr. Venezuela. A Canadian research team recently found a link between stem cells and cancer. Oh but wait, the US doesn’t fund stem cell research. Bummer.

And what praytell does cutting edge treatment and drugs have to do with access to medical care? Your taunt is the same bush league childish responses that we hear all the time from brain dead American conservatives.

I think Venezuelan dude has missed the point. The overall message isn’t so much to revel in a substandard helth care of the US but is more so to point out the disparity between who can receive health care and who can’t. Don’t you find it horrifyingly ironc when the terrorists, who directly or indirectly caused the grave illnesses that these 9/11 workers have contracted, are receiving health care to prolong their lives yet the American workers forsaken to clean up are being left to die? It’s almost so unbelievable it sounds like a satire. Dude, Cuba or not, you gotta see the morbidity in that.

That’s because militant liberals like you and Michael Moore continue to make so much noise about Git-mo. I thought you liberals wanted to give these terrorists the same rights as Americans!? Now that they’re getting those rights, you and Moore cry about something else! That’s the problem with liberals–you stand for absolutely nothing!

I’ve read with interest the comments on Sicko – haven’t seen it yet but certainly plan to. Canadians are heavily taxed, but mostly what we get for our money, in addition to excellent health care, is peace of mind – we are not going to be bankrupt.

Some years ago my son suffered a cardiac arrest. It happened in his doctor’s office from where he was transported by ambulance (free of charge) to the local hospital. He was resuscitated (no charge) but was brain damaged and went into a coma. He was taken by ambulance (no charge) to a leading Toronto hospital’s cardiac ward where he came out of the coma after two weeks, and remained for about a month in total (all at no cost to the family). During this time a non-invasive procedure was performed on his heart, which was not successful in repairing the defect that had caused the cardiac arrest. He was transferred to a rehabilitation hospital for several months during which time he was operated on again (open heart surgery). Again, no charge but unsuccessful. He was then moved to a transitional living centre where he continued his rehabilitation for eleven months using heart medication and constant monitoring (you guessed – no charge!). He was called by his Toronto doctor for a visit and we were told of a procedure, newly developed at a Canadian university teaching hospital. Off again by ambulance and, finally, successful surgery – no charge. Although the brain damage was permanent, now his heart is as good as new, he is on no medication and, thanks to taxpayers, is receiving all the support, both financial and assisted living services, he requires.

I could go on to mention my successful surgery for lung cancer, the delivery and ongoing pediatric and dental care of my two beautiful grandchildren, etc. etc.…… all at no cost!

Hey, Mr. Goterps. First things first about Guantanamo. Many of the people there are not terrorists, have been tortured, are being held without charges, and, last time I checked, what we’re doing is against the Geneva conventions, one of the many things that separates us from your so-called “terrorists”. You might want to look up what a terrorist is. Because our so-called “president” sure as hell qualifies as one.

GO TERP must have it so well and have great insurance. It must not be a big deal to him. Sure exposing something like this, is crying about something else. There is nothing to expose. Evryone is being taken care of. The stories made up are really entertaining, righ.. LIberals do stand for nothing. You can always go watch Fantastic Four the rise of the silver surfer you know, GO TERPS. Let some fools see these fabrications. Another whiner.

Peter; Mike M. didn’t say anything. He went to England, asked questions, and recorded the answers. That is what he shows on this film. He in fact rarely says anything, but asks questions.
Venezuelan: Why would the government want to improve without competition? Why do you need competition to improve? Do you need competition to improve yourself, to educate yourself, etc?
As for the Paris heat wave “medical community couldn’t handle…” You are correct, they COULDN’T HANDLE” it. NOT WOULDN’T. In the US they WOULDN”T. In France they were not prepared for such extremities. On the other hand, COULD the US prepare for Katrina? or 9/11?…. I think we all know the answer to that.
As for Cuba; they have had better health care (available to all) and education than the USA have ever had. These are facts. and yo can’t argue with that. Yes, you have to wait a long time in line, but you’ll get taken care of unless it is an emergency.
Lived and worked in Cuba from 1984-1998. My wife is Cuban and we spend 1-2 month per year there since.
We had a choice to have our child go to school here in the US, or there. We chose Cuba. Last year he got a scholarship to Harvard. He is 2 years away from having completed his studies in Cuba! Their school was in a garage (shed) for the first two years!!!
Don’t knock Mike Moore, help fix our country. He like all of us have and will make mistakes. So what?! But I bet you anything he has done more good for the US Public Health Care with this film than most of us did with our bitching and complaining in our lifetime!

go! twerp

Peter, I don’t know if we are talking about the same England (england), but my bro just had a heart transplant. He waited 3 weeks. The person before him 2 weeks. And the doctors apologized, they said, it was because they were very busy. 3 weeks sweetie pie, not up to a year! Of course if you are disrespectful, ungrateful, or just a plain schmuck, even an Angel would make you wait a year.

Twerp; sounds like you need a good old fashioned blowjob. I heard Gloryholes were invented in your Great country…
Will; You nailed it darling. I wish people would see it your way, your country would be a better place for everyone.
Andreas; love you, move to England these Yanks don’t deserve you.

America: avoids high taxes, no universal health care

Result: CEOS make billions, sick people die, & some people think that’s just fine

Other countries: higher taxes, universal health care

Result: sick people get treatment they need, no CEOS making billions, & people say, “I wouldn’t trade with America for anything!”

Conclusion: America should change its health care system. The current one is not only ineffective but immoral.

D bag — apparently you have trouble with facts. So again, i’ll pose the question Sir, why is the choice between what we have now, and a whool givernment run system?

Michael Moore, represents what I despise about Rush Limbaugh — soundbite arguments that are as vaccuous as your response to my post.

Andreas — you lose all credibility with this sentence:

As for Cuba; they have had better health care (available to all) and education than the USA have ever had. These are facts. and yo can’t argue with that. Yes, you have to wait a long time in line, but you’ll get taken care of unless it is an emergency.
Lived and worked in Cuba from 1984-1998. My wife is Cuban and we spend 1-2 month per year there since.

That is why 1) People risk there lives to float on a raft to Florida, 2) People don’t have access to routine procedure like certain chemo treatments. That is fact, and if your wife is really Cuban, she knows this.

Venezuelan Born:”People risk there lives to float on a raft to Florida”
People have different reasons for immigrating. I have immigrated from a country that has better social system than you could dream of. Why I left? With my friend we watched Easy Rider and films like that, so we thought we wanted to have more fun. Why some Cubans risk their lives? Some to be with family, most for better life. What “better life” may mean t some after watching moviesw and hearing stories may end up to be false. We don’t know until we live that “better life”. “The grass is greener…” In any case; bring back the issue to the US. How do you propose (once you put your anger away and able to converse in an intelligent manner) to fix this mess the US paublic faces every day? Mike put it a bit more clearly than I have, so read his lines and ponder a bit before yelling at us. Forget Cuba, focus on the US. And while we are at it; what have you done in your life to make this place better? I’m not criticizing as I don’t know you, it is a question. M Moore will achieve more with this film than I have ever done, so I thank him. History will tell if we are correct here or just full of shit. Ciao

Venezuelan; The way you converse tells me you are need of education and mental care. Both of which is hard to come by in the US, so I suggest you go pretty much anywhere in the World and someone will be able to help you out. In the meantime please note; calling people names is NOT a bsae or continuasion for an argument. If you’d like to participate in a conversation that is open minded, you have to keep an open mind. This may require a bit of study (education), but you have a computer and access to the Web, so read up chum and soon you’ll be able to chat with even an 8 year old. Just careful how you talk to him, he may not have such high hopes for you as I do and he may not reply. kisses, GoGo Grl.

Venezuelan Born – The plight of the Cubans is not that they don’t have good health care, but that they are under a dictatorship. However flawed a democracy with no universal healthcare and questionable morals of those presently elected, it has to better than no choice of leadership.

I’m curious to know if you have any comments on my message of yesterday concerning health care in Canada. It’s not perfect, neither is that in England (I’ve lived in both places)but it works far better than medicine for profit.

I lived in Canada for 30 years, and have lived in the US for six. I have been sick in both countries. I will take the “American system” over the Canadian one any day of the week.

Michael

Moore’s a realist
And a poet, dealing in what is
And what could happen

I would take the UK’s system over America any day.

Where did Michael Moore fudge the facts?

There isn’t a disputable fact in any of his movies. They have never been able to be challenged and have been heavily scrutinized.

Get YOUR facts straight Mr. Travers.

Sicko is AMAZING.

Fat Slob,go live in Canada! Wanker!

Michael Moore is a hypocrite. I am a middle of the road person when it comes to politics, but people like Moore and sometimes John Stewart become the same people they hate (O’Reilly, Limbaugh) when they voice their arguments. This is not black and white stuff, but they paint that picture b/c it gets more attention. Moore’s facts have been disputed, and there was even an independent movie made about it. I think he serves a purpose, but don’t listen to his stuff and think its 100% true….its just one man’s opinion. He is to the left what O’Reilly is to the right. They just don’t listen to challengers nor will they admit they are wrong.

To HYPOCRITE: Everything is of course one man’s opinion. So in this case, that means that some parts where made up, right ( to support the opinion)? Let put aside the opinions, and purposes served here. the bottom line is that people are not getting health care HERE inthe usa. is that too minute an issue for you? let us commend hypocrites like that.

Moore is an innovater and a breath of fresh air in his Movie making. But he did make a bit of a cock up with Lauding up the British health system ( Im from Ireland but iv seen the Trailers and lookin forward to the movie). For the last 10-15 years the British along with the Irish health sytems have been in dissary and total chaos. Underfunding, bad management, greedy consultants and super-viruses (MRSA) have plagued a poor helthcare system. From what I can see yes it is better than the U.S.A but only just. Pity he didn’s say that.

You Lambs, no one in america gets denied medical care….I know b/c when i was a 19-20 i dindt have health insurance, it may take a little longer if you dont have insurance… but lets face it if you dont pay for it, you get to the back of the line… those countries that have socialized medicine have unemployment and high amount of taxation…. lets take a look at the VA.. that is a prime example of socialized med.

Mr. Moore is an Ass…why dont he do a documentry on how great america is… what he hates America. he does a doc on GM (rodger and me) why does he not do a documentry on unions… or wait he cant because he lobbies for them

You Lambs, no one in america gets denied medical care….I know b/c when i was a 19-20 i dindt have health insurance, it may take a little longer if you dont have insurance… but lets face it if you dont pay for it, you get to the back of the line… those countries that have socialized medicine have unemployment and high amount of taxation…. lets take a look at the VA.. that is a prime example of socialized med.

Mr. Moore is an Ass…why dont he do a documentry on how great america is… what he hates America. he does a doc on GM (rodger and me) why does he not do a documentry on unions… or wait he cant because he lobbies for them

You Lambs, no one in america gets denied medical care….I know b/c when i was a 19-20 i dindt have health insurance, it may take a little longer if you dont have insurance… but lets face it if you dont pay for it, you get to the back of the line… those countries that have socialized medicine have unemployment and high amount of taxation…. lets take a look at the VA.. that is a prime example of socialized med.

Mr. Moore is an Ass…why dont he do a documentry on how great america is… what he hates America. he does a doc on GM (rodger and me) why does he not do a documentry on unions… or wait he cant because he lobbies for them

I think people are forgetting that Michael Moorse is a propagandist. His is not an attempt to do scholarly research. His attempt is to select facts that generate an emotional connection to his presentation of the subject that will result in a political action. So, of course his approach is black and white. Does propaganda not function on the assumption that media consumers are like children who will not analyze data in a systematic way but instead seek out what is simply “good” and “bad”. None of that means Moore is wrong or lying. Certainly people should not have their physical well being subject to the demands of profit margins. But what Michael Moore knows is that the average media consumer is not going to read Jesus,Kant, or Hippocrates and come to a decision about what is right. So he uses the method of propaganda as a short cut. Now I think that reflects something sad for comtemporary moral and intellectual life.

bla, blah , propagandists, lambs and the rest of the bathroom political correct explanations.. look at your fellow people. some people are in alternate realities from apparently many. ass tards. reps of pharmaceutical industries and the bush administration are in this, possibly fox executives also. let fat michael do his research.

Wow, Americans, calm down! Learn the facts … Americans pay more per capita for health care than people elsewhere, but don’t have the results to show in terms of infant mortality or longevity — arguably the two best measures of population health: how likely you are to die at birth, and how long you can expect to live. And Canada doesn’t have socialized medicine — we have socialized insurance, which is quite a different thing. Canada actually has a higher proportion of physicians who are self-employed than the US does. We get to choose what doctor we want to see, and our doctors don’t have to ask permission from anyone to perform whatever treatment is needed. Canada’s system not perfect, but I wouldn’t trade it for the US system, nor would anybody I know.

All these people against M.Moore for sure have never traveled around the world. Had they done so They would realize that the US is light years beyond most of the world as far as health care.
Have you ever been hospitalized, because of lack of funds, in the Los Angeles Hospital by any chance? Go look at all these people lying in bed…in the hallway??? I have seen comparable situation In Bombay, India!
En as far as these characters that can’t discuss without insulting people, well go back at the pool table in your favorite drunking places. Better yet go to the library and educate yourself!!! If the US would stop to try to invade the world and polluting them with their terrible Macdonald aberrations, their stupid violent films,with over 140 military bases, and the money making obliging all the NATO forces to purchase their tools of murdering and destruction. Would they stop their imperialistic behaviors, then should the US have money to take care of their citizens instead of sending their young men to their death!
History tell us that things change and that people, in the US, will no longer tolerate that!
Have a swim in New Orleans!

If Americans think they have such a great democracy, why do they prefer private insurance corporations, contracted by their employers, to administer their health care? In publicly-funded systems, you have the opportunity to vote on health care issues. How much influence can you have on Kaiser Permanente???

A blog focused on conservative southeast Idaho has started a discussion on the merits of Michael Moore’s Sicko.

See if you agree with the points, and if health care or Michael Moore’s tactics are discussed more:

http://idahofallz.com/2007/0 7/02/michael-moores-sicko-is-a mericas-health-care-system-sic k/

Peter Travers, Did you not know that Nixon wanted a national health care for the country when he was President? The spewed lies of politicians are not exclusive to one side politically so, let us know, based on your review it’s whose fault that there is a problem?
I lived/worked in Germany for 6 years and their problems of health care abuse by it’s citizens, delays in treatment, sky high taxes to fund it and substandard care are something you and Michael can have. Please don’t force me to lose what I have so you may have your socialized medicine. Just move to those countries that you believe are better than ours and you will be rewarded as you so richly deserve. Don’t forget to take Michael with you, he deserves that care too.