i came up with the lik roper concept to keep some semblance of control over my life and creative endeavors, so unless i totally piss myself off; i can never be fired…

Roper: Perhaps you can better explain the mess above.

As for whomever wrote this under the nom de plume Rolling Stone:

If a tree crashes in the forest and wipes out the editorial staff of a magazine… well, you get the picture.

Jim Morrison was not the major creative force behind The Doors. If you idiots knew anything, “Light My Fire” (you know, the song that made them famous and therefore dictated the rest of their legacy) was written by Robbie Krieger.

The Ruse should never change their name….their too good….

http://www.myspace.com/ru semusic

THEY’re too good…

http://www.myspace.com/rus music

Al does not wish to tour as The Beach Boys but only to use part of the name in his band and be compensated for being kicked out of the band by Mike Love. Jardine (who actually was a founding member) still owns 25% of the band. (Along with Love,Brian Wilson, and Carl Wilson’s estate).

its pretty hard to say that jim morrison was not the creative force of The Doors. Krieger wrote the pop tunes such as light my fire. Morrison was in charge of the real Doors material, l.a. woman, riders on the storm, the end…

yes jim morrison was the force behind the doors..light my fire is only one song and break on through made them famous also…

although I really enjoy what Pink Floyd without Waters has accomplished (when touring, and writing gems like “learning to fly” or “on the turning away”) I do have a feeling of emptyness without the complete ensemble that was sooo filled in the last Live Aid Concert, groups like that owe themselves to the humanity as any natural reserve in the jungle or the rain forest, so hopefully they can manage to rise above those differences they have and tour one last time as the original Pink Floyd most of us know, maybe as an homage to Syd and after that call the quits and leave all of us with that sweet flavor that we saw them for the last time complete and playing as wonderful as they did in that concert in England

Intresting question…The Beatles? Obviously nobody would expect the Beatles to ever tour again…especially as the Beatles, but couldn’t they use the name according to the rules? Paul McCartney is a larger creative force then Lennon, and Ringo is always there to help the fraction. I wouldn’t want to see this…but should a special Beatles rule be made?

all you need is the lead singer….and lead guitar player…or you can be Axl Rose and have 3 lead guitar players all better than Slash…the works too

paul was a fame grubbing whore who was pissed about the order of whose name was first for the song writing credits, john lennon was the beatles, I would never go to a beatles concert without john and george. paul, ha, what a joke

As per the Beatles I call the Wordsworth/Coleridge rule (19th C. Romatic poets, I know its obscure, but work with me). Paul McCartney was only the creative force in conjunction with John Lennon. The two made a whole. Neither Lennon nor McCartney recorded anything that was on par with their collaborations. (Wordsworth and Coleridge come in as an example of this, when the two poets parted ways, they were not as good as when they spurred each on.) Therefore, creatively the Beatles are done.

good one Z

To be fair, the Who shouldn’t have been calling themselves the Who for year. They should have dropped the name before It’s Hard.

Could Donald Fagen tour without Walter Becker and call it Steely Dan?

that’s not guns n´roses and axl´s voice its no the same anymore.fuck the new gnr sucks

amen fousto. amen

I’d have to disagree with Amendment #2 the Axl Edict. He obviously wasn’t the sole creative force behind G n’R, therefore, he should not be able to use the name, especially since he’s the only remaining member.

Who cares? Isn’t it about the music anyways?

You must check your facts a little better. First of all, Al Jardine was a founding member of the Beach Boys. True, he left and was replaced by David Marks prior to recording their debut album, but he was in fact an initial member and even played on their first single, “Surfin’.” Second, by Pet Sounds, between Mike Love was no longer the primary vocalist, instead sharing pretty equally with Carl (not to mention increasingly frequent lead vocal contributions from both Dennis and Al), along with the diminishing, but still present Brian leads. Third, Mike does tour (with Bruce Johnston) under the name The Beach Boys. As far as I’m concerned, Brian and Al’s recent Pet Sounds concerts can much more legitimately be called The Beach Boys than Mike Love and Bruce Johnston. Oh, and for the record, Brian Jones actually quit the Stones prior to his death.

Pink Floyd had 3 original members after Waters left ( Gilmoir, Wright & Mason). So no problem there.

Axl was the singer & creative force and most identifiable figure behind GNR. So no problem there.

Skid Row without Sebastian Bach- problem. Bach is more identifiable with Skid Row than any other member.

No. It’s not all about the music. It’s about bastardizing the legacy of classic bands. Apparantly that’s not important anymore and that’s sad.

when speed and boredom collide.

Kinda disrespectul of Brian Jones, isn’t it? I think from 1963 to 1967ish (and maybe part of 1968), he was a very big driving force in the Stones. I can’t really see the band experimenting as much in the studio (strange instruments and sounds) in the 1960s, had Jones not been in the band. Nothing against Taylor, they both were great.

But I do draw the line about your Axl theory. Give me a break. He shouldn’t carry on as Guns N Roses, just like Daltrey couldn’t carry on solely as The Who, or David Gilmour soley as Pink Floyd.

Peace out …

How about Creedence Clearwater REVISITED touring without John Fogerty?

Seeing as how Axl’s position as the sole creative force behind GnR can be debated, I propose that this rule be referred to as ‘the Robert Smith edict’ – Smith, the main-if-not-sole creative voice of the band) is the only remaining original member of The Cure, and regardless of lineup, The Cure has steadily released above-par music (although there is no argument that certain lineups are better than others).

i agree with gnr

but i think after roger waters left it shouldnt have been pink floyd

Bands should avoid this confusion by immediately dividing the creative talent from the instrumental musicians. They should use the ever popular formula (Talent & the musicians). This should help fans decide who’s side to take in a fued. Its worked for Springsteen, Petty and many other notable rock n’ roll musicians. (Ex: Lennon, McCartney, Harrison & the Beatles)

I don’t think Axl Rose should get the GNR name. I think there should be another amendment concerning frontmen/well-known guitar players, I guess. Case in point: Axl Rose fronted GNR, but Slash is well, Slash. GNR is the band, Axl Rose with a bunch of other guys is not.

Let it also be known that I don’t even like GNR so I don’t give a fuck what they do.

Death is the only way a replacement for a singer is necessary after success. You may continue but it will never be the same. We call this this The Van Halen Edict.

i heard brian jones could play a 100 instruments

First of all everyone knows that G’N'R isn’t the same without Slash, one man doesn’t make the group. And Pink Floyd definitely isn’t Pink Floyd anymore. Losing 1 genius and replacing it with 2 semi-geniuses to make the one is good. But if you lose 1 of the 2 semi-geniuses, then you don’t have the full genius anymore.

Where would The Band fall? They broke up in 1976. They got together again, under the name The Band, in the 90’s minus their main creative force, Robbie Robertson, and one of their singers, Richard Manuel. Additionally, they made 3 albums which were not that great. Although The Band was talented individually musically, lyrically they were not the same without Robertson. Under the law of fractions, this should not have been allowed. However, they did many live shows with great success

Therefore, I present The Band Complex…

A band that reunites minus their creative force who played an instrument, can continue with a replacement of the missing group member on the condition that they only play their old songs and/or covers.

Additionally, the Law of Fractions must apply directly to this.

Therefore, The Band could reunite today with the three remaining members. But, sadly, Levon cannot sing due to throat cancer. Thus, The Band could get a new lead singer and still go as The Band.

i wonder if he could play the flute

CCR would fit under the Law of Fractions

come one give me a break, jim was a drunk and stole everything he wrote, chain smoking retard, and had a raspy voice, im a million times better of a singer. imagine the doors with a lead singer like art garfunkle

no no, i would fit much better

hey art garfunkle go suck a dick. jim morrison is a genius.

pope judas – creedence clearwater revistied would fit – but not their original name.

there was nothing wrong with the Who staying the Who. they lost their drummer, and even though he was an anchor of the band, they wouldn’t have been able to go on if Townshend had gone instead.

I’ve never been much of a Doors fan but the Doors are not the Doors without Jim Morrison.

the axl rose edict is basically say that slash, izzy, duff, steven [or matt sorum] never contributed anything.

is it me or didn’t they all say they each wrote their own parts.
and didn’t izzy write basically half of use your illusion I??

The propaghandi amendment: when one person who is half the sound and creative force leaves and the group masquarades as the original band posting snide remarks on their website regarding the prior member and making ablums every four years that sound like bad metal albums. They should be dragged into the street and lit on fire for pretending to be the greatest punk band of all time when in reality they suck without Samson.

So with Cobain burning for eternity in hell for the ultimate act of cowardice, Dave & Krist CAN’T name a band Nirvana, right?? Sounds good to me….

Re Pink Floyd: Consider this, Waters did not do all the writing, musically or lyrically for PF (neither did he do all of the singing as RS stated)…so..in this respect why shouldn’t 3/4’s of a band who contributed for years keep the name and continue on. All one has to do is listen to post Waters PF to know that the sound that PF produced was NOT all Waters. So, what’s the beef..I see none.

gnr is not gnr without both slash and axl

why cant all band breakups be like rage against the machines? break up, make new decent band, then reunite when we really start to miss ya

Slash was 50% of the creative force behind GN’R. The fact that Axl has failed to release a GN’R album since Slash’s departure is testament to this. In fact, Axl’s lack of activity was one of the reasons that drove Slash to leave!

GNR is not GNR with Axl and four studio musicians.

In the last GNR british tour, during Paradise City, Axl Rose lost his voice, and Sebastian Bach replace him.

in that moment, none of the band memers playing on stage were Guns n Roses.

THAT´S A TRIBUTE BAND, NOT GUNS N ROSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!! !!!

What about King Crimson? Robert Fripp is the only one who has been in the band the entire time, and they’ve never fallen into the self-parody/nostalgia category…same thing with Yes and Chris Squire…they even made an album without Jon Anderson, which was surprisingly good. Although Yes hasn’t made a decent album since 90125, but still.

OK, how about Zeppelin? Bonham was an integral part of the sound and he was neither the creative force, lead singer but he was irreplaceable. Seem to me that the surviving members knew this and didnt even attempt to replace him. Take The Who; The Who hasn’t been The Who since Moon died. Period. The Stones are a different case; I think they probably weren’t that tight of a band with Jones in it. As a matter of fact, their masterpieces were recorded with Mick Taylor not with Jones. From what I’ve read one of the compelling reasons for Taylor to leave the band was that he wasn’t getting the songwriting credit he deserved.

Wacky article…I wonder how many people this took and hours involved to make this up? I’m not saying that they are wrong….just interesting….

I really am confused by this. Does anyone (Rolling Stone????) want to tackle Deep Purple. There are 7 or 8 Mark lineups?

I hate G&R, but there’s a point you are all failing to see. G&R was not Axl or Slash. The creative force behind G&R was Izzy Stradlin. Check out the song writing credits on the Illusion albums – he’s on almost every fucking one! He leaves, and they release The Spagetti Incident? Open your eyes, people…

Nico:

Axl was ill and collapsed. Plus, if you knew anything, you would have known that Izzy Stradlin was on the stage!

How funny is INXS – find a wannabe on reality tv. Where does this fit?

How can Axl be a creative force when he’s released exactly ONE original compisition in the SIXTEEN YEARS since Izzy Stradlin left the band?

And this thing completely contradicts itself:

“We see it like this: If you close your eyes, and the band you’re hearing sounds noticeably different from the way it originally sounded, the new formation must change its name.”

“In the event that only half the band is together, the remaining half must be responsible for both Lead Vocals and Songwriting Duties in order to claim the original band name. The Who may remain The Who despite missing both John Entwistle and Keith Moon. However, had Daltrey and Entwistle been the only remaining members, the band is no longer be The Who. (Townshend is the creative force.)”

Sorry, but Kenney Jones’ drumming on the last 2 Who albums before the most recent one sounded NOTHING like Keith Moon’s. Same thing with Zak Starkey: sounds NOTHING like Keith Moon. You play me, or any other Who fan, a live performance of any song with Moon and then the same song without Moon, the difference is noticeable.

pink floyd is nothing without roger waters

I think Axl has every right to tour as GNR (he does own the name), but I understand the stance of hardcore fans who don’t accept the current lineup. It’s a matter of taste.

Axl’s personality is all over GNR’s studio material; he was the guy who held it all together and kept GNR from sounding like all the other bluesy metal bands from L.A. The ex-GNR guys in Velvet Revolver have amazing chops, but as far as personality and originality go they are interchangeable with any number of 40-something hard rock musicians you can find in any bar.

I agree with the Pink Floyd thing. Watching Pulse on PBS the other day, I was amazed at how little the three remaining members were actually needed to create the music, but close your eyes it was definitely Pink Floyd. Pretty much all of Pink Floyd’s material can be recreated in concert using hired musicians and the three remaining members.

I can’t believe that people pay good money to see acts titled “The Doors of the 21st Century” and “Creedence Clearwater Revisited.” If the band’s name is amended like that and they’re playing in a casino, you can always bet you’re being shortchanged by all the political bullshit that these bands go through.

Remember Black Sabbath in the 80’s? At first, by hiring RJ Dio they technically could have fit under The AC/DC Theory (Osbourne was simply in no shape to continue) but they should have their own amendment to Law Number Two which states that after 10,000 turns of the revolving door of musicians, enough is enough. Under The Black Sabbath Amendment, Axl is entitled to only so many free passes when it comes to alienating musicians, producers and ex-band members before it becomes clear he has no intention of keeping a cohesive, consistent band together. When it becomes clear he’s just using the name because it sells more tickets than “The Axl Rose Experience.”

Before the R.E.M. bashing starts, they’re excused by The AC/DC Theory. Even with Berry they produced their share of flaky, mediocre music. Seeing them in concert on their last tour, their hired drummer conformed perfectly to the “close your eyes” theory. Imagining it was Berry wasn’t hard at all.

And if Robert Plant, Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones wanted to, they could easily reform as Led Zeppelin under the Law of Fractions. That’s class, no shit.

axl is a creative force

roger waters is a creative force

jim morrison was a creative force

That was suitably moronic enough to be worthy of Rolling Stone.

Axl has the right to use the GNR name because he was the main creative force? That made me laugh.

So… how does this apply to Fleetwood Mac?

no thanks,i believe the sun is blue and i dont have to prove it too u, now u go suck a dick

having seen the original GNR lineup 3 times and the new line up 3 times I can say that when I close my eyes the do sound different. The new GNR is better. Sure we all loved Slash. But back in the day, they often arrived late, slurred their way through a set and left early. Axl’s voice wasn’t crisp and neither were the riffs from Slash. The band was too “$%#&%#&” up to give the show it’s best. The new show’s have been some of the best concerts I’ve ever seen. Axl’s voice is better than I’ve ever heard. He connects with the crowd and appears to actually care about the quality of the show. Much better show than Velvet Revolver, with Weiland screeching thru a megaphone.

According to your Who ruling Pink FLoyd is not Pink Floyd without Waters. Gilmour made the music enjoyable but without Water’s vision and spirit it would be meaningless ‘muzak’ like Paul without John.

The two most enduringly popular and probably best bands ever, The Beatles and Led Zeppelin each consisted of four utterly irreplaceable members. The vast majority of bands don’t.

I got a question for the guy who wrote these rules. Who controls the names for Deep Purple? And Kansas? I mean, both of those bands went through like, 37 lineup changes. Seriously. Someone get on that.

I see no one dares question Deep Purple’s status. Somewhere along the line Ian Gillan seems to have established his just claim.

Mmmk where to start on all this GN’R debate.

First of all, Izzy was onstage the night Axl collapsed and Bach finished the set, so there was an original member onstage.

Second, Axl’s voice sounds better in 2006 than it did in 1992, and almost as good as it did in 1988.

Third, calling Axl the creative force in the original GN’R isn’t fair to…Izzy. Why is everybody saying Slash? I love Slash but Izzy and Axl wrote the bulk of the songs, Slash wrote the leads and looked cool playing them. Izzy gets the ‘creative force’ credit.

Forth – the new band gets a passing grade from me having seen them 3 times last year. I feel the leaked demos destroy anything VR have put out so far. Let’s wait til (if) Chinese Democracy comes out and find out if these cats are as good on record as they are onstage.

Now if only Rolling Stone could get the release date for Chinese Democracy right…

That Gilmour did not completely fall flat on his face without Waters is impressive but those albums shouldn’t be called Pink Floyd.

Also, did someone really just bag on the old GN’R lineup because they ‘always went on late’?

HELLO! The dude that was always late is the only one still in the band!

In the 3 times I saw them last year, the earliest he went on was 11:40. I’m not complaining, just providing the facts.

If you want a show to start on time, go see Velvet Revolver. They’ll come out on time, and they’ll play the same exact contrived scripted 80 minute set in the same setlist order as they’ve played it the previous 100 shows in a row. Good band lineup, average songs, absolutely no danger element involved in their live show.

Someone also said ‘it’s not GN’R when it’s Axl and 4 random dudes’…

Actually, my ticket said Guns N’ Roses, and it was Axl and 7 random dudes, not 4. Just sayin’…

(to Marc): Brian Jones didn’t quit the band, he was fired by Mick and Keith, and of course, died a few weeks later (July 3, 1969). And I could always tell the difference between Brian and Mick Taylor’s guitar playing—most of us on here can–so that was a bit of disrespect to Mr. Jones, Rolling Stone. Both of these guitarists are/were brilliant in their own right, though.

You morons who think Axl Rose’s cover band is THE GNR because they sound good on stage make me laugh. Guess what? Its not.

You may as well say fucking Adler’s Appetite is the real GNR because they are good live.

You nutlicking morons.

I mean, I hate to point out your blatant idiocy, seeing how your idol, Ginger Meggs, makes total morons of you everyday, but damn. Saying they are the real GNR because you like their show? Pfft.

Axl Rose’s “GNR” is as fake as his “hair” and his “face”.

Because the Axl Rose edict can also apply to Billy Corgan and his Pumpkins, I propose a name change to the Narcissist Edict

So if Grohl and Novoselic got back together and recruited Marc Anthony to be lead singer and called themselves Nirvanita, would that be legally viable?

Or better yet, if Paul McCartney and Ringo formed a new band with the Tin Man and a talking tree that throws apples at the crowd, could they then justifiably call themselves
The Bangles? And how does the law protect Susannah Hoffs in such a situation?

Good God, saying Axl is GnR is like saying Bill Wyman is the Stones (or like Al Jardine is the Beach Boys). The least talented member of a band has the name. Izzy and Slash are GnR. Get a new (non-Weiland) singer and tour with the GnR tunes. Nuff Said.

oh, and by the way, Pink Floyd does suck copiously without Waters, but only suffers without Barret.

If even one original band member leaves, I believe the rest should change their name. Its not fair for a band to ride the wave of fame on someone elses efforts. We fell inlove with the band not their replacements. If they have any talent at all they will succeed under any band name. Oh and to everyone asking about Deep Purple, who cares they’ve always sucked anyway.

The main creative force in Pink Floyd changed many times. First it was Syd, then it became truly collaborative between Waters & Gilmour during the Dark Side Of The Moon & Wish You Were Here era. Then Waters really took over during the Animals, Wall & (the horrible) Final Cut era. When Waters left, Gilmour was the main creative force. I have no problem with this. The dynamics of the band shifted as did there sound with every twist and turn. The story of Pink Floyd is one of three or four different eras. That’s a good thing, makes them interesting. Pink Floyd is bigger than Waters, bigger than Gilmour and bigger than Syd. But without at least one of them it’s nothing.

“Kristina In Canada | 2/1/2007, 11:40 pm EST

If even one original band member leaves, I believe the rest should change their name. Its not fair for a band to ride the wave of fame on someone elses efforts. We fell inlove with the band not their replacements. If they have any talent at all they will succeed under any band name. Oh and to everyone asking about Deep Purple, who cares they’ve always sucked anyway.”

So what you’re saying is that Pearl Jam shouldn’t exist anymore because they switched drummers a lot?

SILLY,

If my memory serves me correctly (even if it didnt I can look back and read what I wrote) clearly I said “if a band”. So yes Pearl Jam being a BAND would fall under the catagory. So to your “silly” question my answer is yes. I never said exsist, I said get a new name. Again, if they have talent they will succeed under whatever ever name. Silly, read, and reread peoples comments. That way you wont have to have us explain things to you

in my opinion; much of GNR’s best writing was largely izzy and axl (and slash), but when izzy left the band to go ride go-carts on his new property, that was pretty much it…

the first time i saw GNR was at the stone in SF at sound check in an empty club and without axl, and to me that band is, was and always will be the real GNR…

axl knows this, he is just trying to pick up the pieces and move forward regardless…

“Kristina In Canada | 2/2/2007, 12:34 am EST

SILLY,

If my memory serves me correctly (even if it didnt I can look back and read what I wrote) clearly I said “if a band”. So yes Pearl Jam being a BAND would fall under the catagory. So to your “silly” question my answer is yes. I never said exsist, I said get a new name. Again, if they have talent they will succeed under whatever ever name. Silly, read, and reread peoples comments. That way you wont have to have us explain things to you”

Cool, I just wanted you to clarify your incredibly stupid logic. Thanks for clearing things up.

I mean come on! Pearl Jam has been through 4 drummers already, and none of them had a real impact except the most recent one. So you’re saying Pearl Jam should change their name every time they switch drummers, even though the other four members of the band who actually contribute are the same. Doesn’t that seem a little “silly”?

Whats stupid is that your attacking other people and their opinions. Whats sad is the fact your doing it on a website (probably from your parents basement) Whats even worse your going on about a band that hasnt had an album in how long????? hmmmmm Silly?? Thats what I thought. Anyway Im off work now and unlike you Silly, I have a life to live. One last thing….Pearl Jam SUCKS

This article is the proof that Rolling Stone journalists are senile.

Axl’s nugnr is a fraud.

Axl = GN’R

Don´t get me wrong. I saw them in Rio in 2001. The band sound amazing, and the new songs are great (I think “Bettet” and “TWAT” are some of the best songs Axl ever wrote)

but that´s not Guns n Roses.

In his last solo album, mick jagger join forces with Lenny Kravitz, Bono, Pete Townshend…
Great band, but that´s not the Rolling Stones

What a wonderful topic to examine. After reading all of the feebback I think it’s quite equivocal that there are two schools of thought developing here. One group believes that GNR is AXL ROSE, that Axl is an artist that has been changing what GNR means throughout the span of the band’s career. These folks invision Axl as a painter, almost as if he conjured up a Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven in his first painting and now his next painting is the new GNR…Most people consider the folks in this first school to be delusional and neurotic, and they are.

The second school lives on planet earth. Guns N Roses is dead is what they believe deep down inside. You talk about authenticity? Having someone else play Slash’s material every night is musical plagarism. Even when they play new material, it’s still not authentic to call this new band Guns N Roses because the only reason people show up is to hear the original bands material. I concur with the Axl-lites that an incredible album will give this new band some legitimacy back, but the 10 year delay speaks volumes to the fact that Axl can not deliver the goods. Only ignoramus individuals could possible believe that Axl has just been holding onto the best album ever; if it was good in 2002-2006, he would have released it.

So here we are, Axl’s back in the studio putting the “finishin touches” on Chinese Democracy, once again. It’s 2007 and the world doesn’t care. Guns N Roses is at best a special on VH1 Classic at this point. I’ve seen this new band so many times and I would trade the last 6 years for just one song live from the original group, and most people feel this way. What I don’t get is how people here claim this new band has chemistry, please, their live shows have no energy anymore.

Axl Rose is such the cliche of what happens to an aging rock star. Seriously, back in 2000-2001 there was such promise, but fucking 6 years later and still nothing?!?!?!? It’s a fucking joke. Fucking IRS is going to be on the album? That song is a shit show that Axl could have written in 3 days with the old band. Think about this people, you wake up everyday, go to work and get shit done…Axl’s had 3,650 days and he can’t even complete 13-15 tracks? Fucking a.

/jarmo

“Well, it’s obviously not Guns N’ Roses, I think all the fans know that. It’s not even right that he uses the name, because he’s the only guy left. I think ultimately it’s gonna work against him, because people are gonna say F**K you, wanker – that’s what they’ll call him here, right? ‘You F**King wanker, that’s not Guns N’ Roses!’ Hopefully, the music’s good, cos if the music isn’t good then he’s gonna get the double-whammy…”

Izzy Stradlin interview (2001)

What a wonderful topic to examine. After reading all of the feebback I think it’s quite equivocal that there are two schools of thought developing here. One group believes that GNR is AXL ROSE, that Axl is an artist that has been changing what GNR means throughout the span of the band’s career. These folks invision Axl as a painter, almost as if he conjured up a Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven in his first painting and now his next painting is the new GNR…Most people consider the folks in this first school to be delusional and neurotic, and they are.

The second school lives on planet earth. Guns N Roses is dead is what they believe deep down inside. You talk about authenticity? Having someone else play Slash’s material every night is musical plagiarism. Even when they play new material, it’s still not authentic to call this new band Guns N Roses because the only reason people show up is to hear the original bands material. I concur with the Axl-lites that an incredible album will give this new band some legitimacy back, but the 10 year delay speaks volumes to the fact that Axl can not deliver the goods. Only ignoramus individuals could possible believe that Axl has just been holding onto the best album ever; if it was good in 2002-2006, he would have released it.

So here we are, Axl’s back in the studio putting the “finishin touches” on Chinese Democracy, once again. It’s 2007 and the world doesn’t care. Guns N Roses is at best a special on VH1 Classic at this point. I’ve seen this new band so many times and I would trade the last 6 years for just one song live from the original group, and most people feel this way. What I don’t get is how people here claim this new band has chemistry, please, their live shows have no energy anymore.

Axl Rose is such the cliche of what happens to an aging rock star. Seriously, back in 2000-2001 there was such promise, but fucking 6 years later and still nothing?!?!?!? It’s a fucking joke. Fucking IRS is going to be on the album? That song is a shit show that Axl could have written in 3 days with the old band. Think about this people, you wake up everyday, go to work and get shit done…Axl’s had 3,650 days and he can’t even complete 13-15 tracks? Fucking a.

/jarmo

Track listing

“Welcome to the Jungle” (Music: Axl Rose, Slash) (Lyrics: Axl Rose) – 4:34
“It’s So Easy” (Music: Duff McKagan, West Arkeen) (Lyrics: Duff McKagan, West Arkeen) – 3:22
“Nightrain” (Music: Axl Rose, Slash, Izzy Stradlin, Duff McKagan, Steven Adler) (Lyrics: Axl Rose, Duff McKagan) – 4:28
“Out Ta Get Me” (Music: Axl Rose, Slash, Izzy Stradlin) (Lyrics: Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin) – 4:23
“Mr. Brownstone” (Music: Slash, Izzy Stradlin, Steven Adler) (Lyrics: Izzy Stradlin) – 3:48
“Paradise City” (Music: Axl Rose, Slash, Izzy Stradlin, Duff McKagan) (Lyrics: Axl Rose, Duff McKagan) – 6:46
“My Michelle” (Music: Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin) (Lyrics: Axl Rose) – 3:39
“Think About You” (Music: Izzy Stradlin) (Lyrics: Izzy Stradlin) – 3:51
“Sweet Child O’ Mine” (Music: Axl Rose, Slash, Izzy Stradlin, Steven Adler) (Lyrics: Axl Rose) – 5:56
“You’re Crazy” (Music: Axl Rose, Slash, Izzy Stradlin) (Lyrics: Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin) – 3:17
“Anything Goes” (Music: Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin, Chris Weber) (Lyrics: Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin) – 3:26
“Rocket Queen” (Music: Axl Rose, Slash, Izzy Stradlin, Steven Adler) (Lyrics: Axl Rose, Izzy Stradlin) – 6:13

As you can see, the creative force was the band, not Axl Rose.

It’s clear that Pink Floyd isn’t Pink Floyd without Roger Waters. All you have to do is watch the new PULSE dvd. Guy Pratt clearly doesn’t have the same impact that Waters produced. However they do deserve the name Pink Floyd as Gilmour, Wright, and Mason are still together.

Rolling Stone wrote this :
“We see it like this: If you close your eyes, and the band you’re hearing sounds noticeably different from the way it originally sounded, the new formation must change its name. For example, when the Rolling Stones’ Brian Jones died, and Mick Taylor took his place, had you closed your eyes during a performance, only the keenest ear would have noticed the change. You would have noticed if Jagger was replaced by any other vocalist, however, and they would no longer be the Rolling Stones.”

That’s precisely why Axl Rose should change the name of his band. The new guitarists don’t sound as Slash and Izzy at all.

bob:

“GNR is not GNR with Axl and four studio musicians.”

Try Axl and SEVEN studio musicians…Robin Finck, Richard Fortus, and Bumblefoot on the guitars, Tommy Stinson on the bass, Dizzy Reed and Chris Pittman on the keys, and now some guy called Frank Ferrer on the drums.

I really don’t know what to think about the GNR debate…I saw them a month and a half ago, and Axl put on an absolutely fantastic show. His voice sounded as good as it’s ever sounded, and the band was great. The new songs that have leaked/been played live are excellent, I like them a lot. I feel confident that when/if Chinese Democracy comes out, it will be worth the wait.

But I can also definitely see where people are coming from when they say it’s not the same without Slash and Izzy. Fact is, though, Axl’s new shit is 10000x better than anything Velvet Revolver/Slash’s Snakepit/any other GNR-related side projects have put out.

I don’t know. I just don’t know.

any ammendments using Floyd as an example are mute. floyd hasn’t put out a good album since syd left. both of syd’s albums are superior to floyd after his leaving. RIP Syd Barrett

What a wonderful topic to examine. After reading all of the feebback I think it’s quite equivocal that there are two schools of thought developing here. One group believes that GNR is AXL ROSE, that Axl is an artist that has been changing what GNR means throughout the span of the band’s career. These folks invision Axl as a painter, almost as if he conjured up a Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven in his first painting and now his next painting is the new GNR…Most people consider the folks in this first school to be delusional and neurotic, and they are.

The second school lives on planet earth. Guns N Roses is dead is what they believe deep down inside. You talk about authenticity? Having someone else play Slash’s material every night is musical plagiarism. Even when they play new material, it’s still not authentic to call this new band Guns N Roses because the only reason people show up is to hear the original bands material. I concur with the Axl-lites that an incredible album will give this new band some legitimacy back, but the 10 year delay speaks volumes to the fact that Axl can not deliver the goods. Only ignoramus individuals could possible believe that Axl has just been holding onto the best album ever; if it was good in 2002-2006, he would have released it.

So here we are, Axl’s back in the studio putting the “finishin touches” on Chinese Democracy, once again. It’s 2007 and the world doesn’t care. Guns N Roses is at best a special on VH1 Classic at this point. I’ve seen this new band so many times and I would trade the last 6 years for just one song live from the original group, and most people feel this way. What I don’t get is how people here claim this new band has chemistry, please, their live shows have no energy anymore.

Axl Rose is such the cliche of what happens to an aging rock star. Seriously, back in 2000-2001 there was such promise, but fucking 6 years later and still nothing?!?!?!? It’s a fucking joke. Fucking IRS is going to be on the album? That song is a shit show that Axl could have written in 3 days with the old band. Think about this people, you wake up everyday, go to work and get shit done…Axl’s had 3650 days and he can’t even complete 13-15 tracks? Fucking a.

/jarmo

Nobody here mentioned Journey.
WTF? No Steve Perry, no Journey….simple.
How come they can still do concerts?

I’m wondering if the Temptations should be called the Temptations with just one original member still alive. Ruffin and Kendricks were the driving force for the Temptations, both dead.

NU-GNR is a bigger pile of shit than what 100 rhinos could produce in 100 years.

listen…Guns N Roses toured in the early 90’s with only 3 of the 5 orignal members and no one said a thing…so Axl just replaced Duff and Slash…whats the big deal?/ Guns N Roses has always been a revolving line up…the new band plays the songs BETTER than the old band, and the new tunes are so advanced it makes Velvet Revolver sound like a garage band…..

As I have sat here,read this and see ALL the bands that people have talked about and what “rules” apply to them,one band comes to mind:Lynyrd Skynyrd.Back in 1977,the plane went down-killing everyone on board.I read in Rolling Stone a few years ago that the band could keep thier name if three original members were still living.Well,their bass player died so what “rule” applies to them?
I do believe that some bands shouldn’t go on-look at the Beatles,Zepplin,Nirvana because there will be another John Lennon,John Bonham or Kurt Cobain but,on the flip side,I do think some bands have done a fine job of carrying on.The Doors,Queen and The Eagles come to mind.(And,in the Eagles,I’m talking about past guitar players and not Don Henley,Glenn Frey and Joe Walsh).
Pink Floyd is debateable.It wasn’t the same when Roger Waters left but they wouldn’t have been as successful if Syd Barrett stayed with them.
I see some older bands mentioned on here like The Temptations,Journey and Guns And Roses and I would like to add some more bands:Chicago,The Dobbie Brothers,America,The Little River band and Kansas.None of these bands have the original members when they did back in the day.

I really don’t think people care who plays in the band or who sings for the band (I know I’ll get slack for the latter).I know people were pissed because Micheal Anthony isn’t in Van Halen-he got replaced by Wolfie but would anyone pay $75.00 to see Van Halen if David Lee Roth or Sammy Hagar wasn’t singing for them?No-no one would.Ok-I take back what I said-it DOES matter who sings for the band but,it is a different case if the lead singer is dead.
As far as the Beach Boys lawsuit goes,even though Al Jardine was an original Beach Boy,he shouldn’t gather a bunch of “boys” and tour as The Beach Boys.I mean-yeah-they can do “Surfin’ U.S.A”,”Good Vibrations” and “I Get Around” but everyone is used to Mike Love’s voice just like everyone is used to John Fogerty’s voice and not a sound a like.Same with Steve Perry and Axl Rose.Just like everyone is used to seeing Tobey Maguire as Spider Man and nobody else.

So you can’t tell the difference between Brian Jones and Mick Taylor’s playing… That’s pretty sad coming from a rock and roll magazine, but anyway: can you really not tell Bon Scott from Brian Johnson?

My take is this laws are all hogwash. What’s in a name? It’s just product branding.

For all intents and purposes, Mark Knopfler IS Dire Straits, and if he chooses to release his next album under the DS moniker, it’ll sell more than all his solo stuff combined and inspire countless “Dire Straits are back!” sorts of media coverage, even though the difference will be just in the name.

Names don’t matter, it’s all about the music, maan.

I read somewhere that given an infinite amount of time, five monkeys locked in a room with five typewriters would eventually bang out the complete works of Shakespeare. This…three monkeys, twenty minutes, or roughly the same amount of time it would take the same monkeys to pound out the complete Guns And Roses catalouge and then commit self-immolation in shame.

Just the facts maam…

If you read books , you ‘ll find that it was Dave Mason and Roger Waters who created the band that was to be called pink floyd before SyD Barrett joined it and contribued the name … Waters didn’t know how to play the Bass and didnt contribute any kind of music for a long time. It was Syd and Richard Wright who was the only guy who new anything about music. These guys were all in this were all architects, and David Gilmore was in another band and used to hang out with them specially Syd way back then. So Fuck Roger Waters and the people that says he is pink floyd… Mason and wright worked the asses off in the begining to keep the band going. Waters later became a formidable artist, but what has he done without the others? Pink Floyd was Syd Barrett anyway, so what they did to Roger Waters they all did to Syd first, but Syd ….welll Syd … poor Syd….

I also agree that a magazine such as this, that has been sucking the Rolling Stones dicks for so long by certifying everythnthey have done gold all the time , not distinguishing the difference in band sound between the Mick Taylor Match II and Brian Jones Match I sounds is really fucking sad… WHERE IS DAVID FRICKE??!!!

And just a bit on the Gnr debate… When Izzy left the band was the begining of the end. The guy had something essencial to that unit…. band is the sum of its parts… Axl is just another ego maniac who should be shot.

& this is what i do when im in school.

New rules that you should draft? Shut the f*ck up. You know nothing about music. You’ve proven so by your statement that Pete Townshend was the creative force in The Who. I doubt if you’ve ever listened to The Who. Since Pete was the sole creative force in the band, why have his solo albums never approached those of the band?

What a dope you are!

Sweet Child o Mine ,written by Axl Rose
Novembrer Rain : Axl Rose
Night Train : Axl Rose
Welcome To the Jungle : Axl Rose
You Could Be Mine: Izzy and Axl Rose
Estranged : Axl Rose

On 2/1/2007, 6:06 pm EST, Charlie wrote:

Who cares? Isn’t it about the music anyways?

That’s what Rolling Stone started out to be about, the music. I’m sure Ralph J. Gleason would be rolling over in his grave if he could read the drivel that is being foisted on today’s readers.

This is quite a heavy debate for something that really adds up to nothing in the end. I must admit, I am really curious about this new record that Axl has been making.
Under Rolling Stone’s rules, Limp Bizkit still counts as a band. Let’s hope fred and the boys get their act together and put out a worthwhile new album this year.
Now that P.O.D has their original guitar player back, their new album should kick some serious ass.

This article took a good premise and destroyed it. The article lacks basic structure, and is virtually impossible to make sense of. Which is funny, because the article’s purpose was to make sense of an interesting premise.

finally a decent article

PINK FLOYDS LATEST TOUR HAD THE BAND SPLIT IN HALF SO WHAT HAPPENS THEN. I THINK IT WAS MASON THAT WENT ON TOUR WITH WATERS AND WRIGHT WENT OUT WITH GILMOUR SO THATS A 50/50 SPLIT. ALSO BEHIND ALL OF THEIR MOST FAMOUS ALBUMS, LIKE THE WALL, DARKSIDE AND WISH YOU WERE HERE WATERS WAS THE MAIN AND ALMOST ONLY CREATIVE FORCE. IN MY OPINION THE TIES LIE WITH WATERS

it’ll be hard to get a wilson brother, considering there’s only one left…

What about Journey? They’ve tested all of these rules. Every single one. What are their violations? Do they qualify for a new rule? An ammendment? Afterall, their new singer looks and sounds like the old singer. Most of their ticket buying fanbase doesn’t even know that it is a different dude. I’ve witnessed this. Are they granted a special amnesty for this? You have to admit, it’s pretty impressive to find a clone. Kinda like Bewitched. The new Darrin looked like the old Darrin. Who knew? Who cared?

As has already been posted above, you guys blew the call on Al Jardine. He is one of the founders of the Beach Boys, even though he wasn’t with the group on some of their earliest recordings.

As for Mike Love’s current tour, Law 1, Collary #2 should be applied:

“We see it like this: If you close your eyes, and the band you’re hearing sounds noticeably different from the way it originally sounded, the new formation must change its name.”

While Mike Love and Bruce Johnston (the two actual Beach Boys touring under the name) put on a good show, their act just doesn’t sound like the Beach Boys, certainly not in the blend and certainly not when one of the band guys sings a lead Al Jardine or Carl Wilson (the BB’s other two featured lead singers in their touring heyday) did in concert.

It’s funny that that article has started a discussion like this. I don’t think that a lineup change must lead to a new band name. Because it’s about the music.
But if a band decides to change the kind of music they make should they change their band name? No.
In case of GNR: I am huge GNR fan, of both – the old and the new -. I love the songs, the music and of course the voice of GNR. If Axl would have formed the new band under a new name I would be fan of this new band no matter how it is called. But I think this would have been the way most correctly to do it.

Jim Morrison was without a doubt a major creative reason that the Doors were successful. But, Robbie Krieger wrote most of their hits. He wrote Light my Fire, Love Me Two Times, Touch Me, Love Her Madly. Take away those songs and the only hits left that Jim wrote are Hello I love You and Riders on the Storm. So without Robbie Kreiger writing those songs who would remember the doors today?

As far as I know, someone in the band always “owns” the name, i.e. Chris Squire with Yes. Legal matters, I guess…

In a music world where marketing rules, the name is all. “Axl Rose’s Band” wouldn’t sell the same amount of records as “Guns and Roses”, that I’m sure…

And The Ramones? Well, I guess there’s no problem there, as they all shared the same family name…

What’s with The Cars? No Rick and no Ben… No one should even use the word “Cars” in a band name never again, if you know what I’m sayin’…

Some bands should not continue without the members that meade them classics: The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, the Police (yeah, I know about Henry Padovani)…

People can argue that The Final Cut, Momentary Lapse of Reason, and the Division Bell are just as much Pink Floyd as the earlier classics, but they are all missing something. They are too one sided. And no one will ever suggest listening to them as an introduction to the band. Waters’ return at Live 8 was the reason it was such a successful concert. I am not biased, my fav era was post Syd but pre Dark Side space rock Floyd. But lets be honest…you cant get into post Waters albums the same way. Something far too important is missing, and Gilmour’s solo album “On an Island”was a good move. Its a solo album, NOT Pink Floyd. Just as the 3 albums I listed should have been solo works. But most fans screaming in the stadium could care less. That doesnt justify Gilmour and comapany’s use of the name as a ploy…they were coasting on past success. The only stadium tour the classic Floyd ever did was the Animals tour in 1977…too many people were starving for any Floyd from 1987-1994. Syd period aside, they should’ve followed Zep’s example and counted Floyd as ALL FOUR MEMBERS!

And I guess you can keep the name if the name of the band is based on people who still in the band, though not the creative force.

To wit — Fleetwood Mac…which, using the creative force / lead singer rule, should have changed its name when Peter Green left…and using the creative force rule, should have changed its name when Lindsey Buckingham had left…(and the fact that he had, prior to leaving, 1/3rd of the ‘lead singer’ role further complicates things…!!!)

Hey “Anonymous”

Good call on the Robbie Krieger factor…although JM did write may more of the classic Doors songs (The End? LA Woman?)than you give him credit for in your post…

I wonder if the lack of credit from most irritates Krieger…

Don’t really know about all the rules, as there are exceptions to almost all of them, but I do know this…You CANNOT be the Beach Boys if you do not have any Wilsons.

I love all the rules with the exception of the AXl rule. Guns N Roses is Guns N Roses…Axl and the band is Axl and the band. If Rose is such a creative force as you claim then he can stand on his own name. I expected better from you ROLLINGSTONE!!

Aren’t all the Doors songs credited four-ways between the group members?

Roger Waters gets way too much credit for Floyd. What he and and too a lesser degree, Gilmour, could never reconcile is that Gilmour is musical, Waters is conceptual. That is why Waters solo albums lack melody and Gilmour turns to outside sources for help on the lyrics and ideas.

Why does Waters get so much credit? Because he whines the most. Gilmour just goes back to work.

The actual pre-cursor to The Wall is Lou Reed’s Berlin. Why? Because Bob Ezrin (producer on The Wall) took what he learned during the Berlin sessions and showed Waters how to flesh out his sketchy concepts. Gilmour than took the threadbare musical ideas and gave them life. Waters owes Lou Reed, Gilmour and Ezrin far more than he could ever admit.

The one song from The Wall to stand the test of time is Comfortably Numb. Yes, other songs on The Wall are decent, but this is a classic. Gilmour and Ezrin forced Waters to work within a melodic format that marries the narrative to the writer’s conceit.

That said, The Division Bell is as solid as The Wall. Unlike The Wall, it retains it’s meaning as you leave your teenage years. It is an adult look at the inevitability and frustration of conflict. The Wall is an adolescent’s scream for attention.

If a performer feels so much contempt for you as a listener or audience member that they have to spit on you, you owe it to everyone who has ever loved you to knock that performer’s teeth out and dance on their grave. Because the rock audience is essentially think and dull, they instead reward Waters and Johnny Rotten with expensive lifestyles and villas in France.

You do need an education. Just not thought control.

Oh yeah, Axel Rose and Mike Love are two of the biggest idiots and least talented people in rock and roll history. Free Slash and Al Jardine!

Al Jardine was not a founding member…David Marks had the slot before him and is visible in the earliest publicity photos of the group. He did informally jam with the Wilsons before they got really serious, but I think he left for – of all things – dental school!

Jake. Jake. Jake. You are correct about light my fire. However, the VAST majority of lyrics were written by Jim. One song does not make someone the “creative force” behind a band. The Doors as a whole were a creative force.

Rules are dumb. The Meat Puppets without Cris Kirkwood? That didn’t work out well…

RS: great little article
of course i have my differences but when you remember that this is based off a parody of rock stars going to court it becomes awesome
yes there should be rules the the paradox here is just great! its the AC/DC we make rules just 2 fuck w/ em type of attitude. You complain about rock stars going to court (a just cause) and then proceed to make up a constituition regarding the use of a band name (basically the same thing you guys were complaining about)..it rocks along the lines of “Big Balls” taking convention and making it a credible joke…its the borat of rock and roll…based in humor, credible enough that if you forget what you are reading you can get real worked up (just look at all the posts here), but on many levels very serious (axl is not gnr unless Chinese Democracy equals either all of Appetite or Illusions I and II put together, oh n lead singers arent that important unless they are “the voice” of the band, creative force is much more important unless a voice is instantly, unmistakably reconizable and is inseperable from the band ex: van halen got better w/ Hagar)
see, everyone wants to talk about it
write like this more n stop getting off on pop stars n maybe once again you can have 60’s-70’s type of infulence and respect again

Axl Rose was and is the creative force behind GnR. He formed the band and continued to push new boundaries with excilirating music to conform to his vision.

Slash though as the next most recognisable figure is a legend in himself whose ‘cool’ looks were always more impressive than his guitar skills.

I like most await Chinese Democracy to make our final judgement on the matter. Axl has to create a monster album to win the majority over.

my head is a bit dizzy from reading this.

pink floyd should just reunite and stay pink floyd.

Fleetwood Floyd, Pink Mac. How on earth was Fleetwood Mac missed in the initial inquiry that began this very interesting and popular comments section today?
Lindsey Gilmore, David Buckingham.

Wow Rolling Stone finally published an article with thought and musical knowledge put into it.

I just want to say that I agree with the praise for even bringing up the topic in writing. Please RS, more articles like this.

Another example of the Axl/GNR situation was Led Zeppelin:

Jimmy Page was the (last) Guitar player of the Yairbirds. When the band disbanded, he recluted Robert Plant, John Paul Jones and Bonzo Bonham, And called themseves the “New Yairbirds”.
But they soon change the name for Led Zeppelin.

sure, they were better musicians and wrote better songs than The Yairbirds, but they were NOT the Yairbirds.

Axl´s new band may be great, and their new songs may be even better
than the original GNR, but that´s not Guns n Roses

For the people asking about Journey, there should be a new rule. Call it the Journey-REO-Styx Rule: If you suck, nobody cares cares about the horrible pablum you foist on the masses.” Before anybody gets a bee in their bonnet, please refer to “Mr. Roboto.” Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto…Dennis DeYoung, way to go!!!!

Sweet Child o Mine ,written by Axl Rose
Novembrer Rain : Axl Rose
Night Train : Axl Rose
Welcome To the Jungle : Axl Rose
You Could Be Mine: Izzy and Axl Rose
Estranged : Axl Rose

This pretty much backs up the GNR rule with Axl. Just listen to the lyrics of these songs, like coma, estranged, nov rain, right next door to hell. They are mind blowing.

GNR has always been a band of changing members w/ Izzy to Gilby, Adler to Sorum. Izzy was a bigger part to GNR then slash and duff, but they didnt change the name when he left. So why do it now.

All of you idiots that think that GNR of today suck obviously didn’t see them on their latest tour! I went in skeptical and left a stone cold believer! Axl and the band performed flawlessly. It sounded incredible. Without Axl all you have is an exceptional garage band named Velvet Revolver (and I like them too) but, they are nothing compared to the power and presence Axl brings to the table. Trust me folks, don’t be one of those assholes that hates GNR just because Slash and co. are no longer there because this current line up is “musical mind candy!” You will come to know this sooner or later. The only question is “how much crow do you want to eat first?” Never underestimate the genious ways of Axl Rose.
P.S. I thought the general premise of the above article was solid.

Al Jardine was an initial-founding member of the Beach Boys. He left to go to school after Surfin’ became a hit in 1962, and he returned in March of 1963. He was replaced by David Marks when he left for school. He was back with the Beach Boys when Surfin USA and Surfer Girl albums came out but he was not on the cover of Surfer Girl. For a little time both Marks and Jardine were in the group together. Also The Beach Boy name should only be used if Brian Wilson returns to the group.

As for the Lynyrd Skynyrd situation, according to the biography “Freebirds,” the deal tha Ronnie Van Zant’s widow struck with Gary Rossington is that as long as “three members of the plane-crash lineup” were in the band, they could call themselves Lynyrd Skynyrd (with Van Zant getting a cut of the touring proceeds). Of course since the death of Leon Wilkeson some years back, that only leaves Rossington and Billy Powell left. So by that rule, they’d have to eat crow and invite Artimus Pyle back to be their drummer to make the “three person” rule fit. I haven’t heard any follow-up, but it seems that Van Zant came to a new agreement with the band after all.

And hey…no one has mentioned that classic lineup guitarist Scott Gorham is touring as “Thin Lizzy” with brief latter-era guitarist John Sykes. Since Phil Lynott was the songwriter, singer, and face of the band…what does that say about this?

Well Done RS…until you suggested that Mike Love tour with one of the Wilson brothers….ONE OF? How many of them are currently alive? (1?)

Adding Brian to The Beach Boys is kinda obvious (except that he will never do this). If Carl was alive then yes, A Carl / Mike band would have as much of a right to the name as a Brian / Al band…and a Carl / Al band, that would need to go in front of a judge

The Beach Boys Friends And Family show was a joke (Carnie Wilson + Al Jardine does not equaly a Beach Boys Concert)but tickets were free, so I guess I got my money’s worth.

How about THE JAYHAWKS? Two singers, both write, one leaves, they continue and KEEP the name and CHANGE their sound completely…need a new law?

JOURNEY – Steve Perry was not the original Journey singer, they had many hit albums with Gregg Rollie on vocals, so Steve Perry does not equal Journey. Now they have offically asked Jeff Scott Soto to be the new singer (replacing Steve Augeri who has been thier singer for the last 8 years)

Jeff is an fantastic singer and performer (I saw him this fall on the Def Leppard / Journey tour)

Saw The Animals with The Yardbirds…I think there was one original member per band (and not a singer or guitar player from either)How did they get permission for the name??

Last one – Vinny Vincent Invasion…fired Vinny and changed their name to Slaugher (after singer Mark Slaugher) and was way more successful.

Both the Doors and Queen had no right to continue without their respective lead singers. Both singers had quite a bit of creative control and both singers made those bands what they were. They are two of the most distinct voices in rock n roll, to replace them and continue with an “amended name” is a foolish deception. Also, Axl Rose may have been the voice and creative force behind GnR, but am I the only one who thinks that Slash’s guitar work was integral to their sound? I also think that since the Who were pretty famous for their rhythm section (whom they’ve lost), they should change their name, but I’ll let that one go.

Bob, Al Jardine WAS a founding member. He was on their first single and HE left for school. David Marks replaced him and appeared on their first two albums. Al came back on a part-time basis, filling in for some live shows, and was a full-time member again (replacing David Marks) by the third album, “Surfer Girl” (despite the fact that David Marks appears on the cover).

great article!

I do think Slash’s guitar riffs and solos were a pretty damn important part of GNR’s sound. However, after hearing some of the new GNR’s DEMOS, this new GNR sounds more GNR than Velvet Revolver by far. GNR to me was Axl and Slash. I’ll go with Axl though.

I’ll go with Axl as well….you hear the name Guns N Roses you think of Axl Rose….much like you think Trent Reznor when you hear Nine Inch Nails…

You fake GNR fans never cease to make me laugh at your relentless idiocy. I don’t have to make a fool of you, though. Axl does it everyday.

- 17 years.
- Fake hair.
- Horrible plastic surgery.
- Shit nu-GNR songs that are embarrassing.
- 3 “Chinese Democracy” Tours.
- 2 aborted tours.
- Those horrible jerseys
- Never able to keep anyone in the band.
- The 2002 “comeback” LMAO
- The 2002 VMA’s.
- “It’ll be out in 2006″
- “2005 is the year of Guns N’ Roses”
- “We’ll be back next summer with new songs and a new album” – RiR2001.
- Canceling concerts on the 02 tour to watch basketball.
- Delaying shows in 2006 b/c he didn’t get roast lamb.
- Axl needs that nursemaid to make his decisions.

Well, there are a lot more. But I’ll just let those soak into you tools for now.

One clause that remains unaddressed: the “Simon & Garfunkel Ammendment”: Under your current system, Paul Simon could theoretically hire someone named Bob Garfunkel and continue to tour as “Simon & Garfunkel.” Or “the Captain” could hire a new “Tenille” and continue touring as Captain and Tenille (because everyone knows that the Captain was the true genius of the group).

Seriously though, the only reason I’m clowning around at this point is that I can’t post at work, and by the time I got home, all of the good points had already been made. (Although I have to weigh in on the Floyd debate: Syd Barrett was the original “sole creative force” of the band, and to anyone who says that Gilmour should have changed the name after Waters left, I say that, considering the influence and importance of Syd Barrett, Pink Floyd should have changed their name after Barrett left the band (much like the whole Fleetwood Mac argument).

Anyway, thanks for the best discussion board that you people have generated in months. If you continue to post topics like this, you may actually be able to restore faith in your magazine as one of importance and interest(although, a fact-checking intern might be in order, considering how many errors were made in your original post).

If, however, you continue to post threads on (and give covers to) teenybopper pop stars and movie starlets, you’re going to eventually lose the kind of real rock fans who have been posting on this thread all day.

Anyway, thanks for the best blog reading I’ve had all week. Can’t wait to see what you have lined up for tomorrow.

Rob, some good points about all the delays. but:

-most say new demos are amazing
-the roast lamb story is not true, never happened and discredited by band members he was with before the show. PEOPLE WONDER WHY AXL HATES THE PRESS/MEDIA
-didn’t cancel philly shows in 02 to watch basketball! Thats just another made up story by random journalists (he owes an explanation for why he didn’t show, but still pending lawsuits do not allow axl to discuss what happened yet). PEOPLE WONDER WHY AXL HATES THE PRESS/MEDIA
-the housemaid story was made up by random journalist. PEOPLE WONDER WHY AXL HATES THE PRESS/MEDIA.

You can replace the Guns but not the Rose. Axl is Guns N’ Roses and always will be. The new band rock. Slash cant make anything as good as he used to without Axl. Chinese Democracy will be the biggest album since Appetite!!

AXL ROSE IS GOD

Normally I’d be interested in all the Axl/GNR stuff, but today’s a little different. Today is the anniversary of the passing of a guy who makes Axl look like a boy scout.

Feb. 2. 2007 marks the 85th anniversary of the still unsolved murder of hollywood director William Desmond Taylor, found on 2/2/1922 in the Alvarado Court Apts. The Taylor case features hollywood superstars, drug addicts, blackmailers, all sorts of pervs., mysterious military men, assorted freaks, and a DA who leads a manhunt for a person who HE ALREADY KNOWS IS DEAD! Sounds like a movie plot except there’s never been one made, nor has there ever been a tv movie.
Trust me when I say: Axl’s got nothing ON THIS GUY!!!

Axl’s a tool. Slash is the coolest motherfucker ever. How many shows has Slash fucked up since departing from dickhead……..NONE. Never later, no noshows,no riots. He’s made great records, toured, and been nothing but cool to his loyal fan base. SLASH KICKS ASS

if GNR were still together Chinese Democracy would sound like one of the “Slash’s Snakepit Albums”. When slash left GNR he took many of the songs they were working on with him. Axl considered not fit for the GNR sound or have any potential, and he was right. The snakepit albums were horrible. The wait for a new album is worth it since it could of souned like snakepit. Axl is the musical force behind gnr. Songs like Madagascar, The Blues, and There Was A Time are so epic, and Better, Chinese Democracy, and I.R.S are amazing hard rock songs. Chinese Democracy = Appetite meets Use Your illusion.

Please God,make the nitwits on this board conscious of their atrocious spelling.

Simon & Bob Garfunkel? Now that is an act I’d pay to see! haha

Pink floyd is beyond its members, as strange as it sounds.

Pink floyd is more than Roger, David, Syd, Nick o Rick. It’s like a band without a face.

A couple other examples for your rules: 1. the case of Genesis- creative force leaves, to be replaced by internal creative forces. 2. Fleetwood Mac- a total reinvention of the band, but with the namesakes still present. But perhaps a radical shift in genre calls for a name change.

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Axl was THE creative force on Guns n’ Roses?
This is THE joke of the century.

Izzy and Slash and Duff and Steven WROTE LIKE 90% OF THE MUSIC and also wrote LOADS of lyrics and vocal melodies. If you know a little of GN’R story you know that there were some musics (example: Brownstone, Patience, Think About You) that actually were written (including vocal melodies and lyrics) before Axl ever touched them.

Axl was A creative force on Guns n’ Roses. A strong one. But NEVER the only one. Guns n’ Roses was a BAND. A collaborative multi-dimensional effort. That is one of the reasons that made GN’R SO GREAT.

If you people CAN NOT SEE THAT, maybe it is because you are IGNORANT. And that is ok, because there is always time to learn.

But if you know just a little about GN’R and still can not see that, well that is because you are BLIND or DEAF or in DENIAL. Or because you have EVIL MANIAC intentions of twisting the FACTS.

Rolling Stone? Hey, you RS guys are just showing how little knowledge (and respect by your readers) you have (and, in extent, by yourselves). You are probably so desperate to get an Axl exclusive interview or something that you do not care about TWISTING THE FACTS in order to please the man and get it done!

Luciano
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GnR was a collective. Of course, Axl is an iconic frontman, but the music they made was a group effort.

After hearing several songs from Chinese Democracy, I prefer VR’s Contraband. Sue me.

One big omission from the name change article is the whole Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship/Starship name change legacy. I wonder if they weren’t mentioned because they did it right.

I have been saying the same thing for the past ten years that whatever or whenever the new “Guns N’ Roses” album comes out it won’t be Guns N’ Roses. Axl may have a legal right to the name thanks to a stunt he pulled on tour. (He refused to go on stage and perform. Unless, everybody in the band sign over the legal right to the band’s name.) If Axl has any respect to what Guns N’ Roses was, he won’t use the name when or if “Chinese Democracy” is released. Can you imagine instead of Audioslave, they called themselves Soundgarden, because Chris Cornell is the lead singer?

This is not a commentary whether the new “GNR” is good or not. I haven’t heard anything from them. I’m waiting for an official album not some leaked tracks that claims to be from “Chinese Democracy”.

So, please stop worshipping Axl long enough to be realistic what the state of Guns N’ Roses are in.

GNR – RIP

GUNS N’FUCKIN ROSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

The most overlooked fact in this is that Mike Love has continued to tour NON STOP for 46 years, All the Wilson brothers have quit or died. Alan Jardine quit in 98, he should only be refered to as an orignal beach boy thats all he should tour as “Original Beach Boy Alan Jardine and Past Backup Band Members”

Dr. Landy was the main creative force behind The Beach Boys. Gene Landy was The Beach Boys.He was Brian Wilson. Kinda like a Clark Kent and Superman type thing. So lets ask Landy. Opps! He’s dead too.

If Rolling Stone magazine can’t tell the difference between Brian Jones and Mick Taylor that’s bad.

AXL ROSE IS GOD…AND COME ON…FINCK IS A MONSTER….yeah, GNR today is a whole differnt beast than it was in 92…and 92 wasn’t just like 87…times changes, people change, and we don’t know what went down. We do now that AXL ROSE IS STILL GOD!!!!!

I say its time to call FRAUD, FRAUD…

Foghat
Four Tops
Styx
Journey

etc…

FRAUD, FRAUD, FRAUD

I have been saying these rules forever…
yes I am okay with GNR, Pink Floyd, Beach Boys etc because they have one of their singers… singer = key… i dont want to hear Mike Love sing song’s he didn’t sing though.

i’m just waiting for the day that the seven other members of “GNR” throws Axl out.

i wonder what it will be called then.

Phooey to all this. I have but one thing to say: the ghost of Benjamin Orr should come back and kick Elliot Easton and Greg Hawkes both in their shameful, collective asses.

ok lets get one thing straight, axl rose was NOT the major force in GNR. maybe he is now that slash and the others are gone, which would probably explain why “chinese democracy” is taking over 7 years to make. the only thing ill give him credit for is his talent as a lead singer. hes still a dick

the only thing that matters is the lead singer…so Axl is good…its still GNR

Al Jardine was, indeed, an initial member of The Beach Boys. Rolling Stone is wrong.

Jardine left to pursue dentistry, was replaced by David Marks briefly, then returned.

LOOK IT UP.

i feel axl rose and roger waters are both brilliant

so i feel guns is still guns but i feel pink floyd is not pink floyd

To Pope Judas: Robbie Robertson was the creative force. Levon, Rick and Richard were the voices (Levon has his voice again, I’ve seen him live!). However, if you read Across The Great Divide and This Wheel’s On Fire, you’ll see that Levon was Robbie’s inspiration, and deserves co-composer credit on most of the Band’s songs. Also, they reunited in the early 80’s, when Richard was still with us. And Jim Weider was a better guitarist than Robbie (sorry, RS, I know you and Robbie are in bed together, but it’s the truth). Robbie is a self-serving pompous ass who hasn’t written anything worthwhile since “Twilight” in the mid-70’s. Ruling? Levon and Garth could tour as The Band, and they would be right

There should be a songwriter law.
This would apply to The Clash: It’s not the Clash on cut the crap, because Mick Jones was a cowriter on nearly all of the best London Calling work, despite the fact that Strummer was the main vocalist and creative force.

There should also be a one-man, evolutionary rule. Take for example Wilco. They changed 1-2 members per album, and now only Jeff Tweedy (primary vocalist and songwriter) and the bass player remain in the lineup. Despite the fact Jay Bennett was a big part of the sound creation and did minimal songwriting help, he is not essential, and from what we see with the new guys in the band, sonically replacible. (Nels Cline is a waaay better guitarist)

This could also work hypothetically for NIrvana. If he had kicked out Dave, made another record, and then kicked out Kris, it’s still Nirvana because it evolved into the new lineup. I would treat it like a Kurt solo record, however if he had sacked both at the same time. Kurt would have had the right to this for the 2/3+ songwriting duties, and for the lead vocalization.

As Far As Pink Floyd is concerned they stopped being Pink Floyd After The Wall. The Final Cut is a Roger Waters solo album, with special guests David Gilmour and Nick Mason. After that the music was just so rediculously poppy and caught up in the whole 80s movement of big drums and perfect distortion on the guitars it loses all edge Waters ever brought to the band. The only Pink Floyd that has existed after the Wall happened on Live 8. I’ll give full credit to Syd Barrett, who cofounded the band with Waters and was extremely influential on Waters’ style, and had the chief songwriting credits. But David Gilmour was brought in while Syd was still in the band. They performed together, and eventually had to kick Syd out because of his “condition”. It is justified to keep the name. Maybe a brilliant musician and songwriter, but could not cut it in the band formula and had to leave, the band is still the band. What Pink floyd strived on afterwards was Waters intense dark lyrics and mood and Gilmour’s lighthearted brit pop sensibility. Combine the two and you get Comfortably Numb, Dogs, Crazy Diamond etc…. Waters is so dark his solo efforts seemed to drag and really put a damper on anybody’s day. Gilmour on the other hand (including his recent On The Beach) is so rediculously happy and laid back it wears thin very fast. Makes sense that Graham Nash was on that album. In conclusion, Pink Floyd is Pink Floyd when Waters and Gilmour clash and fight and curse until they both get their views out on a single track. Listen to Hey You and you know exactly which contributed to which. Waterless Floyd is not Floyd.

Sorry, Gilmour’s album is On An Island. I’ve been listening to too much Neil Young lately

Pink Floyd was a British Intelligence mind control experiment. It worked. You’re all hypnotized!!!

What right have the other members of CCR got to tour using the Credence name when both lead singer and song writer were both John Fogarty? Cheers

the new guns and the old guns is what i consider them

both the new and old kick ass

wheww! i thought i was reading something from paste, or rolling stone archives, or some other music mag that reports on good music rather than christina and britany, that could go on for awhile…

a couple things before i officially start here:

limp bizket was never a band. light my fire is not the best doors song. nobody respects inxs enough to care.

okay, essentially we have a ‘fans vs. lawyers’ debate, so let’s through the lawyers out first. now, greatest hits does not qualify you as a fan.

for those of you left, lets have a dialogue.

Gold Standard: no changes, band name ends with original lineup (i will not count pete best or stu sutcliffe):led zeppelin, the beatles, rage.

Acceptable: only addons or upgrades accepted (swaps may be made for replaceable, nonwriting postions, typically base and drums): the eagles, pearl jam

Southern Rock Death Rule: if people die/ are forcibly removed from free society, it’s ok to take as many original members (let’s make a minimum of 2) and cover songs the band would play- if you still have some of the creative force (eg gregg allman wrote most of the music) it’s even okay to continue to write music in the same sounding framework. pink floyd fit this originally (syd barret), and if roger waters dies tomorrow, would qualify again; rolling stones would qualify here: lynyrd synyrd, allman bros;

‘the band’ should have stopped calling themselves ‘the band’ after the last waltz, or tour only and not release new music under the old moniker. also, the rolling stones should have stopped making new music before emotional rescue.

the line: bands that donot follow the above rules will be subject to ridicule unless they perform live (no new music) only, the following are okay: pink floyd, little feat, burrito bros, the dead, CCrevisited, doors OF THE 21st CENTURY, Journey Featuring whoever, the Axle Rose band, Al Jardine and friends, formerly of the Beach Boys. I have no problem with “Queen featuring Paul Rodgers” because you know exactly what you’re getting into (unless they start releasing new music), ole music with a new voice.

below the line: now we talk about prostitution: Guns n’ Roses (post use your illusion 2), Van Halen (until david lee roth is dead), Temptations, the cars, journey

left in the grey area- the byrds

I wonder what of your rules would apply to the case of King Crimson. Robert Fripp was never lead singer, was never main voice, ALTHOUGH he might be considered as a major creative force, but he shared the creative part with the lead singers, because he has never been recognized as lyricist.

I don’t know if anyone cares.. but where would Weezer stand under this rule if Rivers Cuomo went apeshit and picked three new buddies and still called it Weezer? Would he be right?

How about Pearl Jam? Are you going to say that Ed-Ved is the only creative force? I think Pearl Jam is an example of the the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. Same goes for Radiohead.

You forgot the biggest example of the 1980’s: Van Halen. They replaced the lead singer (who although maybe was not the main creative force, was certainly a defining part of their image and sound) but still kept their name. Why was this OK?

INXS without Michael Hutchence is NOT INXS! They should’ve just continued on with their wanna be reality star singer under another band name.

Al Jardine was NOT on the Beach Boys Surfin USA LP. He was a part timer on the Surfer Girl LP. But David Marks was the full-time Rhythm guitarist for the Beach Boys on their first FOUR LP’s and on their first 4 major hit single’s. Other than playing stand-up bass and singing backup on the Beach Boys first indy single in ‘61 Jardine was not a full-time member until Marks left in Oct. 63. All of this is proved conclusively in my new book “The Lost Beach Boy” published by Virgin books and now available in the U.K. and from Amazon.co.uk. The book will be published in the U.S. on May 29th. All previous Beach Boys written history has been myth regarding the David Marks period of the Beach Boys.

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Van Halen could be allowed to continue without David Lee Roth because there are two actual Van Halens in the group. To paraphrase Eddie when Sammy & Michael went on tour as the Other Half; “They’re not the other half of Van Halen, Alex is.”

To be fair, Al Jardine was not trying to tour as “The Beach Boys”, he only wanted to use the name in promoting his concerts: “Al Jardine of the Beach Boys” or previously, “Beach Boys Family & Friends,” which may have been a little trickier but it did have two of Brian Wilson’s daughters and two of his sons(one of whom performed regularly with the Beach Boys in the 90’s, singing Brian’s high notes). I don’t know how many people would have gone to his concerts thinking it was the full Beach Boys lineup but it’s certainly no worse than Mike Love carrying on in concert as the official group. Anyways the lawsuits were finally settled this year so hopefully that’ll be the end of it, but with Mike you never know…

…through the Calcuttaulator and, including developing the necessary technology, it would cost $400 billion to reconstitute and re-animate/clone Benjamin Orr. He’d probably settle for ’saving the planet’. For good use only!

Mike & Bruce have the right to tour (but not record) as The Beach Boys because Brother Records Inc. votted them that right. FYI, the voting members of BRI are: Mike Love, Brian Wilson (or his wife, er, representative), the estate of Carl Wilson and Alan Jardine. You couldn’t make it up.