Elizabeth Goodman should not be a write for Rolling Stone. She demonstrates a marked unfamiliarity with music history, classification, and reality. You should think a little about your audience and your subject matter before you type up what amounts to an ignorant “fan-style” blog.

I read an interview with Dickey Betts where he was offended that people labeled his band The Allman Brothers as Southern Rock…Dickey and Smith should get together and make an album. I wonder how it would sound.

why do yall rag on “panic at the disco” so much then feature them in a shining light….

i just think its tacky to jump on the “its cool to hate P.A.T.D. band wagon”

What’s the problem? Why is The Cure “goth” anyway, cause they wear eyeliner? That’s pretty pathetic, to get mad at a musician because they don’t want to fit neatly into the little musical category you want to stuff them in. The Cure are one of the most original bands of the last few decades. They defy category, and to lump them into a lame category such as goth, does them and their fans a major disservice.

oh yeah LOVE the cure and when i just lisson to “most” of the music “goth” does not come to mind.

BR—i agree

The Cure are PURE Goth…they define the entire genre!! Just like The Allman Brothers and Lynard Skynard DEFINE Southern rock. All goth bands that came after The Cure all are rooted in The Cure. And if you don’t think so let me ask you this…I’ll name ten bands/artists and you tell me which one comes closest to goth. N Sync, The Allman Brothers, Frank Sinatra, Miles Davis, The Rolling Stones, Coldplay, Babyshambles, Rush, Judas Priest, The Cure…you get the idea. If the Cure aren’t goth then who is?

Uhhm, Robert Smith has always denied the “goth” moniker. This newest statement is nothing new and, unlike the Panic! guy’s denial, fairly accurate.

Goth kids like romaticized music, which is why they like the Cure, but that doesn’t make the Cure goth. Think of “Close to Me”, “the 13th”, “Friday I’m in Love”…not too goth, at all. Particularly when you compare it to Bauhaus, Depeche Mode, Sisters of Mercy, etc…bands who are decidedly dark and death-obsessed. If anything, the Cure was the first Emo band, a label that R. Smith did embrace upon the release of the last album.

I like Elizabeth but these “what do you think?” pieces are always a little off. And, its true that the RS blog is better when it just reports the news…people will comment on this stuff whether or not its solicited.

“Writing about music is like dancing about architecture” -Frank Zappa

Music is music. Sure, it can be an integral part of a cultural movement, but it was music first. Shut your mouths.

what exactly can be considered “goth” anyway? BTW, Lizzy, Siouxsie and the Banshees also denied the “goth” tag so don’t single out Bob.

i dont get the cure, never did….I know they are a huge deal, but i never got it….what was so good about them?

Isn’t the phrase “goth” used to describe appearance more than the music itself? “Friday I’m in Love” certainly could never be labeled as “goth.” The Cure is awesome, even if Robert Smith does look like Azrael Abyss.

Oh yeah PATD suck, its not tacky to hate them…

…Hate gives you focus, makes you stronger…

well…The Cure did invent the “goth” look, style, and vibe; however, they did quickly mature past that scene. they might have laid the groundwork for “goth” but i wouldn’t call them that. they’re too experimental and all-over-the-place. they’re just one of the greatest new wave bands.

Robert Smith is my hero! i can definitely see where he’s coming from, and he has said things like this before.

Graham:

that Azreal Abyss comment was the funniest thing i have hear all day.

The Cure Rule!

The cure aren’t goth-never were. They have a dark appeal like the Smiths or Depeche Mode, but they are not Goth. Their first album was post-punk, and they have continually changed their core sound to a broader definition.

The Cure didn’t invent the ‘goth’ style, Bauhaus did. And Robert Smith is right : goth is a part of their music but they write all kind of material. I don’t see where the big deal is here.

How about we see if we remember Panic At the Disco in 8 years and than we can begin to discuss the comparison. The comparisons of current bands to bands that have proved their worth is so old. My Chemical Romance being compared to Bowie? This is nonsense. They might sell magazines, but so does everyone Paris Hilton f***s. A little foresight would be nice.

And by the way : thiss no fucking news. R. Smith has been saying that for years. I guess you should know that if you post an article about The Cure, right?

Nothing like a fat has-been trying to keep up the old look.

As a looong time Cure fan, I have to agree with the bulk of the comments. Many goth artists are heavily influenced by The Cure, no doubt. But these artists tend to draw their inspiration from albums like Pornography and Faith. Great albums, but only one phase of The Cure’s back catalog. The band’s stylistic range over the years has been to broad to categorize them as ‘goth’ or any other, single label. Think of songs like Caterpillar, The Walk or Why Can’t I be You? They sound nothing like each other, and none of them would be considered ‘goth’.

He is right.

THE END.

Liz, I so want your job . . . It must be nice to smear an icon’s name. Is it fun? Seriously, tell me.

I agree, comparing Panic with the cure is bullshit. I have been a long time fan of the “cure,” and have rarely ever considered them “Goth,” half their radio hits were distinctly not goth. Goth is one of the many faces of the cure, and sure Robert doesn’t look crazy good anymore he’s almost 45, give the guy a fucking break. Britney is looking almost that bad now and she’s 23. Goodman I have not thought of you as inadequate until the past two weeks. First the killers and now this, enough.

Does Elizabeth Goodman have any idea who the Cure’s fanbase really is. To pretend they are all Goth kids is absolutely ridiculous. Just read the replies here and you’ll figure out Robert Smith’s comments will not piss off 98.7 percent of their fanbase. Your post probably will, though. Comparing The Cure to Panic at the Disco is beyond idiotic as well.

Elizabeth,
Once again you show your cards too early! Only someone with as little musical knowledge as you would dare criticize Robert Smith for making the same observation that intelligent rock critics and fans worldwide have for over a decade. The Cure is a great pop band, much in the same way the Beatles are and always will be a great pop band. That is not to say they do not rock or touch on any other genres (psychadelia for the Beatles, goth for the Cure), but You clearly have NEVER listened to the Cure’s music. Going back to 1985 (i.e. 21 years ago), the Cure was not Goth. They had a unique image that millions of people worldwide have copied and deemed “Goth,” but I doubt you could name more than 3 or 4 non-goth Cure songs despite there being close to 100 of them. Please do everyone a favor and tender your resignation from this position, as we read this blog to get news on all types of music, not some uninformed silly girl’s misguided opinions about bands she knows very little about. If that’s redundant, then so is your idolization of Bowie. WE GET IT. You remind me of Avril Lavigne when she first got started–wearing t-shirts of bands you’ve never actually listened to. The Cure is probably one of the best 10 pop bands of all time, meaning precisely that they make great catchy exciting music that has mass appeal because their main creator is such a unique individual that knows how to phrase his insights so eloquently and melodically.

I read an interview with Rob Halford years and years ago where he claimed that Judas Priest wasn’t heavy metal. That beats this.

I agree with him. The Cure isn’t just goth! They started out punk, moved to tranced-out cabaret, slided into pop, etc. They’ve only recently become pegged with goth due to all these tuneless wonders nowadays trying to re-record Kiss Me and Disinegration. “Friday I’m In Love”? “Inbetween Days”? “Catch”? “Boys Don’t Cry”? Goth? Not really. I could go on and on…

Goodman, I’m sorry to say… but smashing Smith for saying this was a huge mistake. Your cred just left the building.

Why is Rolling Stone suddenly getting so tabloid-esque and confrontational with artists? Very strange.

Well, I think Robert’s probably wary because people who like Goth music have been saying The Cure are not Goth for just about forever. So yeah….The Cure are goth in a pop-goth kinda way, they same way Marilyn Manson is–that is to say, more in appearance than sound.

Its like U2 calling themselves a PUNK band. Bono.. we all love you. Now SHUT UP!

I agree with Matt, Rolling Stone is turining into no more than an entertainment trash mag, hardly the great rock n’ roll resource of yesteryear. Its a pity. Where’s the music gone? i, or, we dont give a damn about this drivel garbage constantly downplaying other magazines or badmouthing musicians that have a little something called talent(something Elizabeth Goodman apparently knows nothing about). If Robert Smith doesn’t think the Cure is goth thats his interpretation and he, like everyone else, is entitled to that. Little advice, if you wanna critique something write an album review, we dont give a shit whether you think Robert Smith is a crybaby or not.

Hi Liz. Do us a favor? Please go back to People Magazine and report on what you know. Stay away from musical icons who have actually contributed an enormous amount to modern music only to have it butchered by hacks like you.

Early Cure is definitely goth, and i love it…By the way, Robert looks like warmed over shit these days. I’m just sayin…

Hey, don’t bring U2 into this, ok? This is about the Cure, not U2. Just leave Bono alone for God’s sake.

i agree with panic at the disco,they’re not emo, they’re sucko.

Robert Smith can call himself anything he wants and pretty much act as much like a child or brat as you called it, anyone who writes, Pictures of You, The Blood and A Forest has the right to say-f-you very much. Robert Smith for President.

the cure aren’t nearly as good as the one and only Soul Asylum!

Will you pricks stop slagging off the writers like hildish morons just because you don’t agree with what she says.. She’s a good writer….bloody Americans!!!

Childish, obviously not hildish!!!!

It astounds me that bands (especially veteran bands) still object to critics who label their music. That’s what critics do.

Obviously, no creative person wants to be put in a box (unless that’s your gig), but to refute it it stupid.

Who cares, the Cure are boring. So are the people who spend their entire day posting at Rock and Roll Daily whining about how Rock and Roll Daily doesn’t deserve their attention.

It’s so annoying that music critics feel the need to incessently categorise music, can’t they just appreciate it irrelevant of genre??

Like it or not, Smith founded the Goth genre (props to Bauhaus, too; they never hit as big). The whiny theatrical vocals, the orchestration, the overwrought emotionality…that’s goth rock as many know it, thanks to Robert Smith.

Understandably, the Cure indulged many genres. That’s the why they have a super-dedicated fan base– an album for every mood (or whatever). But, the Cure’s most pioneering mode was that of Goth Rock.

I think Robert Smith can say whatever he wants to say. It’s his music, and no one really has any right to define or categorize it, not even Elizabeth Goodman. Putting labels on something is poisonous. It prevents us from embracing a work of art for what it is and becoming more human as a result. (Well, that applies to good art. Can’t say that Panic! is good art). I think that’s what Smith is getting at here. It’s not the term “goth” he dislikes; it’s simply the use of labels to categorize art that he’s against. In other words, I’m tired of these pointless news updates and Rolling Stone in general.

Jesus-balls, man, having skimmed this thread, I’ve concluded there must be a lot of fans violently masturbating Smith pics now…

You fans screw your cause by personally attacking the witer of a goddamn blog post. (By the way to whoever, if you don’t wanna read the posts, don’t, it’s a free internet; personally, I find them entertaining.)Also, to one asshole (I can libel you since I got justification): Goodman isn’t a whore, unless you have proof of her whoring.

I guess you can expect such a vehement reaction from Cure fans online, but, in person, it’s all floor-gazing eyes and mumbled non-conferentation.

But, I’m generalizing, some Cure fans would probably punch-in my teeth if I argued Robert Smith gargled my pale goth scrot last night.

Screw it, critics generalize. That’s the goddamn point. With out critics to actually hear and evaluate the music, there’s no way to determine what’s good. (And by critics, I mean everyone who has ever reviewed on Amazon.com or recommened a CD to a friend.) But, I guess arguing the nature of criticism is a little dense for this thread.

Any way, whatever I was saying: it’s only Rock and Roll, fuckers.

This is simple… ROBERT SMITH CAN SAY WHATEVER THE FUCK HE WANTS….and PANIC AT THE DISCO can go fuck themselves in a corner while looking at a picture of Kevin Federline…..How dare you Rolling Stone even mention Robert Smith in the same print as Panic at the Disco…actually the same publication for that matter

it doesn’t sound like elizabeth goodman has been following the cure for very long. robert smith has been distancing himself and the cure from goth for a very long time, perhaps almost as long as the members of panic! at the disco have been alive. and he does have a point. the cure have written a lot of classic music that can be described as goth, but they’ve written just as much that cannot.

The cure are great..panic at the gaybo…really…last more than 3 years and ill take interest.

Goth kids-crab and recreated his look..
Emo..bah it will be like plad was in 1993.

Is this a joke? I agree with da vinci’s post, a little foresight would be nice. We should not hate on the author, nor the bands mentioned, but we should carry all these nonsense articles with a grain of salt.

the cure’s looks: definitely GOTH.

the cure’s sound: definitely POP

The Cure were a terrible band.

the cure make/made pop music, they just have a gothic look to them. Panic at the disco are emo and they can’t even make that music “well”, if that’s even possible. It all sounds the same…Listen to zappa.

…if more bands were influenced by true musicians and bands and songwriters with actual talent…music would be at it’s pinnacle. instead we have to listen to terrible emo pop like panic at the disco and fall out boy and my chemical romance. Whatever happened to the great musicians? whatever happened to exploration of your music? If more bands looked up to artists like Beck, Ween, Tom Waits, or Frank Zappa, all this emo garbage would disintigrate and dissipate. I can’t wait ’till all this is over and musicians start expanding their sound and not fearing the unfamiliar realms of music. Sure music should be fun but it should also expand a person, especially a musicians, mind and talent. If ,as a musician, you look up to these “bands”, expect to go nowhere because these guys have no talent and their sound is only skin deep. MF Doom is cool. Queens of the stone age is the best rock band today!

While I think the personal attacks on Ms. Goodman are unwarranted, I enjoy the irony of the article’s title: “Robert Smith Denies Cure’s Goth-Ness, Offends 98.7 Percent of Band’s Fans”. I think Ms. Goodman is the one who appears to have offended the fan base.

How could anyone who claims to “adore” Robert Smith know so little about his music? Take a listen to songs like Mint Car and Just Like Heaven – nothing “goth” about them. Yes, the Cure made a few albums in the 80’s that could be called “Goth”, but the majority of their albums would be pop…quirky pop, but pop nonetheless.

Your reaction to his comments is a bit over the top – “bratty”??? No great band likes to be categorized based on a small sampling of their work. Zeppelin used to cringe when they were described as “heavy metal”, since so much of what they were doing did not fit in that box. Unless you were trying to stir up this kind of reaction, the piece does betray an ignorance of the Cure’s body of work.

Why the fuck would saying that the Cure isn’t strictly “goth” piss off 98% of Robert Smith’s fan base? the headline made it sound like he dangled a small child over a balcony or did a collaboration with Lil’ John.

How about them Steelers!

I just ate a small order of cheesesticks from Pizza Hut. All five. And I’m not ashamed! I am not ashamed!

goodman you sucks….

why does everyone have a problem with elizabeth goodman?

I’m not some angry Cure fan. The only songs I know are “Boys Don’t Cry” and “Friday I’m in Love” (neither of which strike me as particularly goth, by the way) but yes, Mrs. Goodman, you are a very poor writer, and never before has it been so obvious. This article strikes me as your attempt to be funny. It wasn’t. Your articles remind me of the newspaper my local community college puts out.

Worst of all, you’ve managed to ruin your credibility in an online forum, so all of your crappy articles are just one google search away… for eternity. That means you’ll never be able to earn any respect in the music press, ever.

You might want to consider a career in cable advertising.

I say!

Even as a casual Cure fan I can tell you they’re not a goth band. Yeah, the may have the look (at least the goth kids are trying to look like him), but the sound just can’t be classified as goth. It goes way beyond that. And the only way you can really classify it is as The Cure. This writer just doesn’t equal up to the great writers (especially Matt Taibbi) on the Rolling Stone staff. Good luck, I hope you learn what you’re doing soon. Remember – this is Rolling Stone – do a little research next time…..

Well…there certainly a lot of angry Cure fans posting. I myself love the cure. Pictures of You has a permenent place in my teenage heart, like many of you. But I have to say that I totally agree with Elizabeth on this one. I think its really kind of pretentous of Robert Smith to dismiss the label Goth, as if Goth were a stigma he’s trying to rid himself of. He should be grateful and humble to fact that he is a God to many a goth folk. He shouldn’t brush them aside, just to prove he’s an artist. Robert we already know you’re an artist, that’s why we listen to you. If someone calls you Goth, smile and say thanks… seriously…

although i really do agree with what robert smith was saying, in that the cure should not be classified as goth, i think it’s entirely uncalled for to issue personal attacks on Elizabeth Goodman for having an oppinion that differs from Smith’s.

Goth, Emo, New Wave. That is such sad music and if you had to look at Goth fans you wouldn’t want that label either. Please, velvet capes in July that is hot as heck. Please stop kids life is bad but thas what music is for please go get a lover and keep yourself out of Hot Topic.

that’s not a cranky comment, he’s right. i fucking hate when people categorize.

Quote – “Perhaps Smith is just cranky because he’s having problems writing the new Cure record”.

FIRE HER NOW.

Man this article blows. Get your shit straight Goodman. The panic at the disco reminds you of Robert Smith. Not the other way around you retard. This is why I stopped subscribing to Rolling stones because of the shitty writers. Panic at the disco is pure emo and they think clan classify themselves? This is the first response ive done for a post only because this article stank major afro butt and pissed me off. How can a major magazine like RS post this kinda crap. Screw this website and screw your mag

It is the artist who defines the music, not the fans, and not you liz.

Criticizing Robert Smith for further expressing his opinions about his own work is below journalism. But this is a gossip-rag now innit?

Your knobs all go to eleven.

Ridiculous! This is a Magazine not a personal Blog. You must study at High Musical School, maybe you learn more about music then the ridiculous compares.

Go back to Class!!!

I’d just like to point out that he has been saying this for years.

(And I agree)

cool rock

gyus, if you’re in media, no press is the only bad press. RS has known it for a longass time, and this is the result. i couldda picked any of these blog threads and the same would apply – incendiary talk about icons with a rock-solid loyal fan base=bazillion pissed comments. saying something at all, especially if it’s negative, is a gold mine for page hits and talkie-talkie. why do you think fox news and rush limbaugh are so popular? the only ideological disagreement this rag and any conservative media outlet has is the one over how to most effectively manipulate people (the sam could be said for dems/repubs.) see? i just had to post something…couldn’t resist. like dylan observed – if they hate me so bad, why do they keep buying the tickets?

oh, uh…the opening of “plainsong” – well, you know. go put it on now and be glad. winter.

so do anyone else’s comments get the typo treament after they’ve posted? wtf? is there a bot that’s designed to alter spelling and subject / verb agreement just to make the unwashed look illiterate?

oh yeah…when you’re done with ‘plainsong,’ go to ‘primary’….and then maybe ‘a strange day’…and on and on…

there is a cure for every mood indeed.

Leave it to a columnist from a flavor-of-the-month rag like Rolling Stone to front-page a general topic as trite and overexposed as “genre-fitting” a band that has said more and contributed more to society in the last quarter century than Rolling Stone ever will.
This, of course, being the same Rolling Stone magazine that regularly kisses the ass of all bands, issues and fads dominating mainstream pop culture at any given moment.
Which might explain why Elizabeth Goodman manages to speak erroneously and out of turn more often in her two or three paragraphs of fluff than most of her fellow gasbag record review colleagues can muster up in their three-sentence tell-all album reviews each issue.
But that’s Rolling Stone for you.

Also, I would hardly classify Robert Smith’s assertions that the Cure is not “goth” as recent. Smith has been saying this since the term became commonplace after albums like Pornography and Disintegration. One needs only take into consideration the band putting out a record like Pornography only to follow it with an album as eclectic as The Top. But again, I wouldn’t expect the cultural ass-kissers comprising Rolling Stone magazine to research these kinds of things.

The Cure were goth for a couple albums (Faith and Pornography) but can anyone seriously say that Lovecats, In between days or The Caterpillar are goth?
Goth, pop, alternative or new wave, anyway you look it, The Cure is THE BEST BAND OF ALL TIME period!

I don’t care what you call them, as long as they put out a decent album. If it’s good, I’ll buy it, if it’s not, forget it. Too much music, too little time.

Denying that you are goth is very goth. Even more goth than insisting that you and your crowd are the only true goths and all those other guys in black clothes and eyeliner are not.

It sure was nice of Elizabeth to “not going to go further with this” as her writing prowess could put Robert Smith out of a job…

JUDE if you hate Rolling Stone so much why are you on their site, reading their articles

but the Cure suck..yeah.

Robert Smith gives great head.

How the hell can anyone read this black font on black background! I will sue rolling stone for straining my eyes!

I dunno what Goodman is talking about. The Cure are NOT goth. They are goth-lite at best. Saying The Cure is goth is like saying Bon Jovi is death metal.

You want goth? Listen to Type O Negative or Saviour Machine.

Jude #2, I occasionally find myself wandering over to this site for a little amusement on cold wintry days of grief. Imagine my surprise when I come over and see the singer of my favorite band front and center with some hack columnist attempting to pigeonhole his unpigeonholable music. Smith’s remarks about the Cure are 1.) nothing he hasn’t been saying for years, and 2.) hardly newsworthy. I behoove Ms. Goodman to provide ample proof of this “97.5 percent” of the Cure’s fan base angered by his remarks. I’m willing to bet it’s about 99 percent who don’t give a flying fuck.

At least people will remember the Cure, as they have for the past damn near 30 years. People will remember Panic at the Disco like they remember Crash Test Dummies, Candlebox, Veruca Salt, Better Than Ezra, Sugar Ray, and Letters to Cleo. Bands that were pushed down our throats by Clear Channel when they thought they could manufacture hits. Their days are numbered, they cant write memorable tunes for sh*t, and are more about looks than anything. At least anyone growing up in the 80’s can think of the Cure as part of their high school soundtrack. And younger kids STILL go back and listen to them. Like 60’s and 70’s classic rock back in the 80’s and 90’s. But no one will remember Panic and these other worthless rock bands. Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame, jackasses! Oh, and Elizabeth, go write for Tiger Beat!

I can’t speak for every one here, but I’m not a fanboy, and I’m not offended at the remarks Goodman wrote in particular.

I’m offended at her daily dosage of shit commentary. She talks out of her ass on all things music.

It’s nice to see the public respond back fast.

Smith has been saying this since the early 80’s. Oh well, I guess Goodman had a deadline or something.

He’s right. The Cure isn’t a Goth band. “Love Cats?” “Just Like Heaven?” “High?” “Killing An Arab?” “Boys Don’t Cry?” Come on, the band is diverse. Their fans are the ones who aren’t.

Elizabeth Goodman, I love your writing!
This is excellent and an example of why I love new media’s immediacy/energy.
And I love that you hate Panic at the Disco
Keep it rockin……….
Best!

everyone knows the last great cure record was disintegration. pornography, head on the door, standing on a beach, and that. delete the rest of the catalog.

Calling The Cure a goth band is like calling Morrissey a “Morrissey Impersonator”.

Fat Bob is struggling to bring his band into the naughties.

There’s a big difference between a band with a few very goth albums and a goth band.

Pornography is one of the gothiest albums of all time.
Three Imaginary Boys/Boys Don’t Cry is post-punk.
Wild Mood Swings is pop-rock.

The Cure may have some Goth tendencies, but the whole of their work can in no way be called goth

Fuck you, RS

Btw, the new issue still hasn’t showed up at my house… not that I paid for the subscription though, I got it free with a ticket to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

As The Sisters of Mercy’s Andrew Eldritch proves, there is no single action more goth than denying one’s own gothiness

how old is elizabeth goodman? RS editors must assign feature articles to writers who are as old as the bands/artists they’re going to write about to give us a sense of history and what the hell is the writeup all about. don’t give prized web postings to newbies who know nothing about how/what it was and how/what it is.

The writer seems to think that “Goth” kids make up 98.7 % of the Cure’s audience, when it is probably more like 5 %, considering that is usually just a phase a small percentage of kids go through in high school. Do you really think the Cure’s fans (mostly in their 20’s, 30’s and 40’s now) really give a shit about the goth label?

Shhhhhhh. Take some deep breaths and sit down. Don’t get so worked up over trivialities.

Elizabeth Goodman’s article restates the obvious, it’s true. Rolling Stone has been the trailing edge since before Mick Jagger was eligible for the Senior Breakfast special. Honestly though, her article was hardly “terrible” or worthy of expletives and threats. Ms. Goodman reveals her lack of knowledge about the Cure by stating that “98.7%” of the bands fans identify themselves as Goth. In fact, about 98.7% vehemently deny that they or the Cure are in any way Goth. It would be beside the point to note that you will see a lot of Goth makeup, Goth hair, Goth jewelry and clothing at a Cure concert. (Several people have made the point that to be goth means to deny your gothness, or to endlessly debate what is and is not goth). Fair enough.

I just reread the article and on second thought, it IS unnecessarily snotty. Yes she has a point that Robert Smith is probably cranky about not being able to come up with lyrics. But “seriously gothed-out soul”? Are you actually writing articles as some sort of high school journalism project?

This must have been from a press conference because I read an article in another publication, using the same quotes. And it was much more well-written.

This article shows you have no knowledge of what your talking about, therefor you Phail, epic phail

I wouldn’t really call them goth either because they have quite alot of cheery pop tunes thrown in aswell, but they do have certain songs I can associate with the goth scene, like the songs of the album Faith.

Haha, totally agree Cure Fan.