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Kyla Cole

Gauge

For the people that want to stop this maby we should send all the unwanted horses to them.How many of you even have horses? if you do not then keep your opions to your self.

megafds

hellojojo

US Horse Meat is Unsafe for Human Consumption

The main problem with slaughtering US horses for human consumption is that the meat is unsafe for human consumption because of the medications that horses receive. These medications are not approved for use in any food animals by the FDA and the USDA. The medications are legal for horses as they are not considered food animals by either of these agencies. If we are to continue to allow the 1% of the horse population to be slaughtered by foreign companies for human consumption overseas, then we must either 1) lose an estimated 70% of the current medications that US horse population receives so that the drugs do not enter the food supply or 2) implement a tracking system for the 9 million horses in the US, like the passport system that Great Britain has had to do recently, to ensure that these medications are not used in horses sent to slaughter.

Why is American horse meat unsafe for human consumption?
* Horses are not raised nor regulated as food animals in the US. They routinely receive medications that are banned from food animals such as Phenybutazone or “bute”, the aspirin of the horse world. Addition medications include Clenbuterol, Ivermectin, fluphanazine, fluoxetine, methylprednisone, dipyrone, gentamycin sulfate, ketoprofen, Regumate and Lasix — all clearly labeled, “Not for use in animals intended for food.”

What is the usage of bute in food animals in the US?
* According to the FDA, there is no tolerance for bute in food-producing animals, and they and their by-products are condemned when it is detected. Dairy producers must not use this drug in food-producing cattle and if it is found, those producers will be subject to FDA investigation and possible prosecution. (http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCK ETS/98fr/03-4741.htm). Since horses are not considered food animals in the US , bute is widely administered to horses by veterinarians and horse owners.
* The Food Animal Residue Avoidance Databank (A National Food Safety Project administered through the U.S. Departmentof Agriculture) prohibited the extralabel use of bute in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older as of May 29, 2003 because of the likely adverse effect in humans. With this action the use of any phenylbutazone in an adult dairy cow becomes a violation of the Food Drug and Cosmetic Act and one of FDA’s highest regulatory priorities. (http://www.farad.org/prohibit .html). Again, this does not apply to horses because the FDA and USDA do not view them as food animals. Therein lies the issue. US horses are not raised nor regulated as food animals, yet 1% of the 9 million American horses ARE being slaughtered for human consumption overseas.
* Veterinarians should be in violation of their own AVMA law by administering bute and almost all of the other medications they give to horses — “Extralabel drug use is not permitted if it would result in a violative food residue or any residue that may present a risk to public health.” (http://www.avma.org/onlnews/j avma/oct00/s100100a.asp)

What are the side-effects of bute?
* Phenylbutazone has been determined to be a carcinogen to humans by the National Toxicology Program (NTP).
* Phenylbutazone is also known for its ulcerogenic, nephrotoxic, and hemotoxic effects in humans. It is known to induce blood dyscrasias, including aplastic anemia, leukopenia, agranulocytosis, thrombocytopenia, and deaths.

Is bute ok for use in food animals in the countries where US horse meat is consumed?
* No. In the European Union, any horse that has EVER received bute in it’s lifetime is banned from entering the food supply. They have had to implement a costly and complex “passport system” in Great Britain (a country that is also overwhelmingly against horse slaughter) in 2004 to address this very issue for the 8,000-10,000 horses that go to slaughter for human consumption in the EU each year.

How is the collection of slaughter horses different from cattle?
* US slaughter horses are mainly purchased at auction through independent “killer buyers” contracted by the three foreign-owned horse slaughter houses in the US. The horses are bought from many owners across the country. There are NO medical records to go with these horses. In contrast, farm veterinarians are required to hold each cattle herd’s medical records for 2 years for trace back requirements of drug records, illness records, etc.

Aren’t there inspections on horse meat at slaughterhouses?
* Yes, there are random inspections of horse meat, but horses are not purchased from one owner in one herd like cattle are. They are bought from many owners at many locations and with no medical records. The horse slaughter houses would need to test EVERY horse to make sure they are free of toxic and carcinogenic drugs. This is NOT BEING DONE. At present, there can be NO ASSURANCE that US horse meat is safe for human consumption. This finding needs immediate action! According to our own laws, it is clearly illegal.

2 things I’ve read in some of these posts are dangerously incorrect…FIRST of all, horses are NOT slaughtered to feed starving people in other countries, rather they are slaughtered as a delicacy in many countries where they don’t even slaughter their own horses! Second, slaughter IS inhumane. Of course, the government is going to say it is humane - THEY are supposed to be regulating it - ha- ha. To those “city people” and horse owners/enthusiasts/breeders/ whatever, that think it is humane, please go to a slaughter house and decide for yourself. Therein lies the problem. Pro-slaughter people are speaking with no information except what they have been told or have read. Why don’t they go see for themselves? And if you can’t actually see it, just ask a slaughter-house worker if you can. I have been to BelTex in Texas - absolutely horrific and I was even trying to give them the benefit of the doubt the entire time. Horses are working participants in our society - carrying our police force around, are the animal for therapeutic riding, give carriage rides, to name a few. Give them the dignity they deserve - a peaceful ending, NOT slaughter. They are terrified from the time they get there to the time of death - they know what is happening - ALL of them.

Just to set the record straight, I have two petitions online, both to end horse slaughter. They are the only petitions I have ever sponsored in my entire life. Please don’t state -lies- to get your point across, openmind.

It is apparent that you were never openminded about this issue, as you state at the end of your post: “Thanks for the entertainment.”

Just another pro-slaughter advocate here to bait us. Good luck, since horse slaughter will end in 2007.

Marjorie

P.S. And you say “animal rights activist” as if that’s a dirty word. I hope that one day you will find some kindness in your heart, for all beings living on this planet.

Well I have spent some more time reading ALL of the posts. It doesn’t make any sense at all to accuse horse breeders of being villains when they have made it their life to raise horses. If they don’t love horses, why would they raise them? Just because they don’t love them the same way you do doesn’t make them wrong. I am sure there are plenty of livelihoods that would pay more, so it sure looks like love of the horse is what keeps them in business, not greed. I just really don’t think that slaughtering a horse is any worse scientifically than slaughtering any other animal, from everything that I have read. Sure, killing a horse ellicits a bigger emotional response. Thats it. And if horses feed hungry people in this country, why not allow that to continue? I don’t think either that just because one Native American is against horse slaughter that ALL of them are. That makes no sense. Why else would have the King of Iowa amendment have been proposed? Just from my objective standpoint, it doesn’t look like banning horse slaughter (or processing) is a good idea. Very well educated people in different affected fields have stated just that and so did the house committee on agriculture. There is no documented, well cited information from PhDs or informed legislators from the antislaughter side, but there is a great deal of such information from the proslaughter side. Why would big associations of veterinarians say processing is humane if it isn’t? And the fact that all those animal agriculture associations are against it says a lot to me too. A list of celebrity names against horse slaughter didn’t impress me. Just because they are celebrities doesn’t mean that they know anything about horses and their opinion shouldn’t be given more weight than those who actually own horses and have spent a lifetime doing it. I have learned a lot about this issue and it has been interesting, but despite all the rhetoric from both sides, it sure looks like the horse breeders who are pro slaughter and that have made horses their very lives are in the right on this one, whether they are the majority or not. I like the analogy about the architect. There are also people in this country that don’t choose to eat pork, but they aren’t campaigning agaist others eating pigs, and it should be likewise with people that don’t eat horse. If you don’t want to process a horse, don’t, but don’t prevent other people from doing it especially when so much good is gained from it, like better vet practices. It doesn’t seem like any of your business. Again, I am a city kid, but this is what conclusion I came to from what I read here. FYI.

Happy Holidays and thanks for the entertainment!!!

And one more thing, openmind, if we have convinced you, please help and sign our petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com /takeaction/631181096

You can also find more sites with info there.

Marjorie

Openmind, I just wanted to say one thing - and I appreciate your curiosity about this!

Horse slaughter is “the ultimate betrayal”. We tame horses to trust us, do our will, just as we do with dogs, but then in the end when we find them useless or no longer to our liking, we send them to a “horrific” death. They see humans as friends, and then in the end their “friend” attempts to hit them with a bolt gun, designed for cows so that more often than not it misses its mark. Now you have a conscious, hurt animal being hoisted by its hind leg so they can slit its throat and bleed it to death. Again, this all being done by those it was taught to “trust”.

And yes, this is not a number cruncher and some would say the emotional side of it, but I tend to think of a betrayal as a moral issue.

Again, thank you openmind.

Marjorie

hi openmind,

i will try to keep it short

the bill is specifically designed for america’s horses.

“it is not the intent to impact legitimate food processing or production - common commerical or recreation sporting activity - existing laws relative to horse classification, taxation, or zoning - but to protect america’s horses from slaughter — *hoofpac

i personally see horses in america treated and administered to by veterinarians (with meds not to be used on animals intended for food) as more pet, sport, recreation, and companion animals.

horses helped build this country, are used in therapy and rehab, carry police officers in mounted units, search and rescue, parks and foresatry, and compete in the olympics games, and so much more.

americans dont eat horse meat.

it is no longer used in petfood in the U.S.

do you know the foreign owned plant in texas paid the town of kaufman only 5.00 in taxes one year? its in the hearings.

lots more info to be found - specifically in the post below - which i think shows alot of objectivity so read that too.

but i hope that this helped some.

p.s i was raised on a working farm with cattle and horses.5 generations who never ate their horses.

Here we go again…The very “few” (a.k.a. minority) pro-slaughter folks have exposed themseves as “sub-humans” once again. I am confident the same “handful” roam from forum to forum so they can “spew” their “garbage” that they will copy and paste from the biased, “lawyer-owned” site: “www.commonhorsesense.com.” You must be mistaking the anti-slaughter folks (a.k.a. “humans”) people as those without intelligence or understanding.

You have been asking for facts? A few statistics? I have got a few of those for you. Read up…

I preface this long post by saying that number you keep quoting regarding all those “unwanted” horses - is highly skewed…Let’s take out the “supply and demand” equation in this matter; therefore reducing this number by a large % of the stolen horses that go straight to slaughter, and the declining numbers of Premarin mares and foals needed (as this product will be “off the market” very soon), and the “harvesting” of our wild horses, that number seems to change quite a bit.

HORSE SLAUGHTER FACTS:

A few years ago, I was on the pro-slaughter (“necessary evil”) side. At the time, I didn’t really have any facts to back up my stance (SOUNDS LIKE A FEW PEOPLE WE KNOW HERE…CM, HG), just a “gut” feeling about how I thought this industry worked. I decided to do some research, so I could use logic and reason to counter the anti-slaughter arguments. My research sources included calls to the slaughter plants, economic data from the American Horse Council (a pro-slaughter organization), census data from the Government, stolen horse information from www.netposse.com, and a few other related data sources.
By the time I was done, I realized the anti-slaughter side was actually on the right track.

Let’s forget about the emotional side for a moment, and consider the raw numbers and economics. What about the long-term effects? If the bottom of the horse market falls out (which it has been doing slowly anyway), what will happen? In my estimation (based on facts and research), show horses and other high priced horses will be minimally affected. That class of horses does not rely on slaughter to set price trends. Their prices follow the demand for the sport/horse, trends in horses/sports, and the economy in general. The sector that will be hit the hardest are the low priced horses, poor quality horses, and more “common” horses (those already in a saturated market).

What will happen when those horses lose their value? Breeders who breed these horses will lose money, horse dealers/traders with this stock will lose money, auction houses will start losing money. It may take a few breeding seasons, but eventually, these people will get tired of losing money. Breeders will sell out or switch to a better breed/type that will bring in money. Horse dealers/traders will do the same. Auction houses will start figuring out how to bring in better horses, different horses, or different “things” to sell, because no one likes to lose money! Because of falling prices in this category of horses, the average horse buyer will start demanding better quality for his/her money…The “Trade Up” instinct. So, it’s only logical to think that sellers/breeders will follow the money and start breeding/selling better horses. Eventually, we will realize a more stable horse market, we’ll see better prices, and see better quality of horses being bred.
Abuse and neglect is a completely separate issue from slaughter. If you want tougher abuse laws and more enforcement, you need to contact your State Legislators. Ask them for tougher punishments and get after local authorities to enforce the enacted laws.

The horses that would have gone to slaughter at auctions will still be sold at auction, sold privately, donated to a rescue, therapeutic riding center, vet school, or humanely euthanized.

The people that frequent auctions (other than killer buyers) will still go to auctions. Prices for auction horses may go down, but the slaughter buyers are buying a SMALL percentage of the horses. There are 9.2 million horses in the US, so less than 1% of the horse population is slaughtered.

To put things into perspective, the mortality rate for horses is 10%. That means that over 900,000 horses a year die from illness, injury, accident, or natural causes. Those 900,000 horses are buried, rendered, or incinerated. Less than 10% of horses slaughtered are old, infirm, injured, or otherwise unusable. So, that means approximately 8,000 more horses a year will need to be put down. The other 70,000 to 80,000 will be able to stay in the market.

As for the people employed by the slaughter industry: The truck drivers will drive for someone else (I see LOTS of trucks going down the road with “now hiring drivers” signs on them). The plant employees quit these places on a frequent basis anyway (it is a VERY high turnover industry), so they will get jobs wherever they normally would be employed. The plant owners are from Belgium (and rich), so I imagine they will go home or start up another business. The USDA inspectors will still work for the USDA. They will just go on to inspect other animal slaughter facilities.

The REASON for slaughter is that people in Europe and Asia like to eat horses. That is it! They are entitled to do what their culture finds acceptable. Slaughter does not control our horse population here in the U.S., and it is not needed to control horse prices.

When horses were at their highest price, slaughter buyers still bought horses at premium price (up to $1 a pound at one point).

The ONLY way to stop horse slaughter is to make it illegal. Nothing you do about breeding or population control affects the number of horses slaughtered.

People who are breeding quality horses not already in a saturated market and are selling these horses for good prices will NOT be affected. If you believe you fall in this category, but you do end up having problems selling, then you were wrong and/or the market in general in your area is going down (it has been for the last 5 or 6 years).

Breeders that produce quality foals in a good market, and also know how to properly market their foals, they will survive. When things settle down a little, prices will go back up, prices will be more stable, and we will see better horses being bred (since that is where the money will be), and profits will be better than they have ever been.

The above is based on accurate research and statistical forecasts directly from the slaughter industry (independent research was done on ALL sources, as I was pro-slaughter before); knowledge and experience on the professional side of the horse industry, and knowledge gained from taking courses at college in economics, statistics, philosophy, history, theory, and research.

Here is a summary of all of the areas I researched, and this information is “just the facts.”
In 2004, approximately 66,000 horses were slaughtered here in the US for human consumption overseas (nearly 20,000 horses were exported “live” to Canada, Mexico, and Japan for slaughter). Their meat is exported to France, Belgium, Italy, and Japan.

Horsemeat is generally considered a delicacy in these countries and is higher priced than beef. France alone consumed 300,000 horses in 2003, and Italy 350,000 horses. The French numbers may change however. French government officials have suggested stopping the sale of horsemeat in restaurants due to health concerns. Many medications and topical treatments that are commonly used on horses should never to be used on animals intended for food, and there is no withdrawal period.

The 2005 population of horses in the US is approximately 9.2 million horses (from the American Horse council’s census). The 66,000 slaughtered horses represents 0.7% of the total population. It looks like we’ll hit about 90,000 horses this year (2005), which is less than 1% of the total horse population. In 1990, over 315,000 horses were slaughtered in the US. The number of horses slaughtered has steadily declined in the last 14 years, while the number of foals born has increased. Drops in the number of horses slaughtered have been almost 80,000 a year at times. During those years, we did not see a huge influx of surplus horses or a large drop in the sale price of horses. The number of horses slaughtered every year follows the demand for their meat.

This illustrates the lack of a need for the slaughter industry to regulate horse population.

The American Horse Council estimates that 10% of the horse population dies every year, either by accident/injury, illness, or natural causes. That means 920,000 horses will die this year. The large number of horses dying from ways other than slaughter has not created a negative environmental impact, like the AMVA and AQHA would like you to believe. The number of horses that will die far outnumbers those that will be slaughtered at 9:1.

California passed legislation to ban horse slaughter in 1998. Since the ban was enacted, horse thefts have dropped 34% in that state, and continue to drop every year (based on police reports filed for stolen animals). And horse prices remain stable. Abuse cases in California have not risen at all, and in fact have declined in areas, while the national average is on the rise.

Also, during the years that the Illinois slaughter facility was closed, abuse numbers leveled off and then began to fall.

Ironically, Texas has the highest rate of horse abuse in the nation. This illustrates that ending slaughter will not encourage the mass neglect and abuse of horses.

The method of transporting horses to slaughter is very inhumane. Horses often travel 36 hours or longer without rest, food, or water in extremely cramped double-decker trailers (this is standard operating procedure – ask any killer buyer). These trailers are built for shorter animals such as cattle, sheep and pigs; most horses cannot even lift their heads. Horses will often slip and fall in these trailers arriving at the plants dead or severely crippled. Transportation reform laws were passed in 2002 – but they have not done any good. Even proponents of slaughter such as Dr. Friend of Texas A&M agree that transportation of horses to slaughter is inhumane. NOTE: While a law has been recently enacted (December 2006) to make transported horses to slaughter in double-decker trailers illegal, this will NOT stop them from using these same inhumane methods to transport doomed, slaughter-bound horses to the “feedlots” in these trailers.

The slaughter itself is also very inhumane. The chutes that hold the horses are designed for cows, as is the captive bolt-gun. Horses are much stronger and more agile, with longer necks. They also have highly refined senses, and are more intuitive than cows. They are “flight animals” and are very skittish in stressful or unfamiliar environments. Therefore, they “thrash about” in the kill-box, making the captive bolt operator’s job impossible to be successful with one “shot.” The operator often has to stun a horse as many 3-4 times before rendering the horse unconscious.

A percentage of horses are slaughtered while still alive. The USDA considers a 95% rate of unconsciousness before being butchered as acceptable. Since approximately 3% of horses fall into this category, in this year alone, over 3,000 horses were slaughtered last year while still conscious and breathing.

The captive bolt gun is used to only “stun” the horses. It is like a spike on a leash, and is shot into the horse’s head, then retracts back in to the gun.

Horses that go to slaughter are mostly not the old, infirm, lame, or dangerous. Less than 10% of horses slaughtered are old, sick, injured, or otherwise “unusable.”

Just like beef consumers, people who eat horsemeat want young tender flesh. Most horses going to slaughter are NOT “unwanted” horses; there is just a demand for their meat, and they have ended up at the wrong auction at the wrong time.

Did you know that 40,000-50,000 horses are stolen in the USA every year? These statistics can be verified with Stolen Horse International, http://netposse.com.

Did you know that the only reason the slaughter plants scan for microchips is to remove them so they do not contaminate the meat? This was sworn testimony in court from slaughterhouse workers.

One interesting statistic: approximately 70% of all horses that are slaughtered in the USA are quarter horses (stock-type, some with verifiable AQHA papers). This is fact based on the slaughter plants’ own records. There are over 3 MILLION registered quarter horses in the USA.

There is no proof or evidence that exists to show that banning horse slaughter will cause a rise in abuse and neglect, with thousands of unwanted horses “lining the streets” or causing environmental problems.

BUT, there IS evidence to suggest that stopping horse slaughter will NOT cause these problems.

HERE ARE YOUR FACTS - READ THEM.

WHOA THERE!! I heard about the verbal war waging at this site and thought I would check it out. I will say that I don’t own horses, that I have only tried to understand where both sides are coming from.

The problem seems to be that the pro-slaughter side sees horses as livestock (just like cows, pigs, and sheep), and the anti-slaughter side sees them as humanized, anthromorphized enlightened beings that are closer in type to people than to other four legged critters with hooves.

I don’t know folks, but it seems that if there are so many organizations against banning horse slaughter, it merits some objectivity and not just emotion. Which, honestly is all the anti side seems to have in their favor.

I really see what the pro-slaughter side means about banning slaughter opening a can of worms for animal rights people to go after other more traditional meat animals. Why is it okay to slaughter cows and pigs and sheep but not horses? Really, I don’t understand the difference. Granted, I am a city kid. Can anyone shed light on this?

Geeee'’ Im Proud we have Willie for a spokesperson for Responsible Horse Owners and The Pro slaughter side can have Satan He has clearly stated his knowledge in horse slaughter and Taste. BigMouth and HomegrownIdiot can follow his lead. The rest of the anti dont even waste your time here. The site Commonhorsesense is really commonhorsesh..

Horse slaughter WILL end in 2007! Despite the nonsense talk of the pro-slaughter people … Americans as a whole can determine right from wrong and we don’t care what nonsense spews from the simple minded. Look at Willie’s horses, alone, and you can decide if they fit the “classic” description of horses meant for slaughter … old, sick, lame or mean. Just look at luvmyhorsey’s post and you can see that general attitude for what its worth. We will end the senseless slaughter of our horses. And, yes, I agree that irresponsible breeding has a great deal to do with the problem.

Processing* Slaughtering
Horse slaughter is a death fraught with terror, pain, and suffering. Horses are shipped for more than 24 hours at a time in crowded double-decker cattle trucks without food, water, or rest. Pregnant mares, foals, injured horses, and even blind horses must endure the journey. Once they arrive, their suffering intensifies—undercover footage obtained by The Humane Society of the United States demonstrates that fully conscious horses are shackled and hoisted by the rear leg and have their throats slit. Because horses are skittish by nature, it is particularly difficult to align them correctly and ensure the captive bolt stun gun renders them unconscious

***”Euthanasia” means a gentle, painless death provided in order to prevent suffering.Unwanted horses should be humanely euthanized by a licensed veterinarian when no other option exists, rather than placed on a truck, cruelly transported, and then butchered. Most horse owners already use humane euthanasia for their older or ill horses.
Which way would you rather die ? Which way would you rather your dog or cat die ?
AMERICANS don’t eat horse meat ! It is NOT OUR culture that eats horse meat.
Why should OUR horses be slaughtered so their meat can be sent to Europe to be eaten as a DELICASY as Americans will buy high priced steaks.OUR horses are not feeding “staving “people in DARFAR.
Should we go to India and open a SLAUGHTER house for THEIR cows and tell them they have no rights and can’t stop us ?
The slaughter of our horses is against the will of” WE THE PEOPLE” of the United States ?

“The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated”
-Mohandas Gandhi

there are too many horses in this country. this excess has occurred b/c we have overbred the horse for our own pleasure. We now have an ocean of horses before us and can’t figure out what to do about it. We need to stop irresponsible overbreeding-period. if there are not that many horses around, they will be more valuable and not as likely to go to slaughter.

OH whinny whinny! I am an anti-slaughter advocate….whinny whinny. I think I will go masturbate while I stare at my Hidalgo poster. WHINNY!!!

TO COPPERMOUNTAINCOWGIRL

I HAVE SAT HERE FOR ALL MOST 2 HOURS READING THIS STUFF. YOU MUST NOT HAVE TOO MUCH TO DO, AS FAR AS IT GOES IN TAKING CARE OF, TRAINING, AND HELP YOUR HORSES, BUT ALOT OF TIME TO SPEND ON THE COMPUTER PRO CLAIMMING THAT YOU LOVE HORSES AT THE SAME TIME SAYING HOW GREAT AND HOW WRONG IT WOULD BE TO STOP SLAUGHTERING THEM. IAM ABOUT SICK AND TRIED OF HEARING
1. WHAT IAM ANIMAL ACTIST
2. THAT IAM GOING TO TRY TO THE SLAUGHTER OF PIGS COWS AND SO FORTH.
3. THAT I LET EMOTION RULE OR GET IN THE WAY OF THINKING.

BEFORE I ANSWER THE ABOVE WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW COPPER MOUTH YOU ARE NO LOVER OF HORSES. YOU MAY LOVE THE MONEY THEY BRING YOU AND THE LIFE YOU WANT TO LIVE, BUT YOU ARE NO LOVER OF HORSES AND ANY ANIMAL, OR ANYTHING REALLY.
1. IAM NOT AN ANIMAL ACTIST, IAM A HUMAN BEING WITH A MIND, A HEART AND COMPASION FOR LIFE. YOU TELL ONE THING THAT YOU DO OR SAY, WEATHER IT BEING MAKING BUSINES CHOICES OR RANNING THE COUNTRY, WHERE EMOTIONS DON’T COME INTO PLAY???? EVERYTHING THAT WE DO INVOLES EMOTIONS. BEING HERE AND RESPONDING TO THIS IS ALL EMOTIONS NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU ARE ON.
2. I EAT STEAK AND LOVE IT AND HAVE NO PLANS ON STOPPING.
3. I CLEARED THAT UP IN 2
THE KILLING OF AMERICAN HORSES IS NOT HUMANE AND ANY ON THAT SAYS IT IS, IS NOT HUMAN!!!! WE ARE GOING TO GET THIS STOP.

i quote copper
“It doesn’t matter at all to whom commonhorsesense.com is registered.”

maybe not to you but it definately matters to me.

for many years the tobacco companies had scientists, phd’s, doctors etc.. on their propmotional side - proclaiming there were no risks associated with smoking. My how times have changed!

and just recently - a link was found between the decline of premarin use and a deline in breast cancer.

again, i will research sites that don’t have blatantly obvious reasons to sway people to the pro-slaughter side.

for everything they claim pro-slaughter - there is research and statistics on many other sites from organizations dedicated to the welfare of horses.

you’ve received many of those links but choose to ignore the iformation and statistics, and reports, and vet testimonies.

commonhorses ense = a wolf in sheeps clothing.
i again send you to

www.equinewebdesign.com/ho rse-slaughter/in-the-press/200 40620233215.html

but doubt you will read it.

i leave it at that. i am done with you. writing you off as a good little monkey for the pro slaughter side.

back to willie..
view what copper calls neglected, abused, sick, old, cripple horses.

see willies rescued slaughterbound APHA horses here

www.habitatforhorses.o rg/whatsnew/willienelsonpress2 .html

read the story of how the auction was closed to the public and allowed only kill buyers in - unbeknownst to the estate.

thank you willie for proving to the world what types of horses the foreigners are really slaughtering.
Good luck with your beautiful, friendly, healthy, and now happy horses!

Here is the website again!! Take a look at the videos !!

www.kaufmanzoning.net

I suggest Copper go inside and witness the reactions of horses in the slaughter house.Especially when they are being zpped by the elctric prod into the stun box!! She could also see videos at www.kaufmanzoning.net/horsemea t/Is this a humane way? Nothing but propaganda!! They want young horses not the old.

Even American dog food producers will not use horsemeat in dog food!! Our horses are given many drugs that are banned in our meat animals!! Shame on our USDA!!

This should answer all of the pro-slaughter arguments. If it gets cut off for being too long, I’ll repost the rest in another comment.

—————————- ——–

Here is a post I sent to another list, copied in its entirety.

Hello, I’m a lurking member. I had to speak up regarding this issue. This is a rather lengthy email, I apologize ahead of time. It’s worth the read though.

A few years ago, I was on the pro-slaughter (necessary evil) side. I didn’t really have any facts to back up my stance, just a “gut” feeling about how I thought the industry worked. I decided to do some research so I could use logic and reason to counter the anti-slaughter arguments. My research sources included calls to the slaughter plants, economic data from the American Horse Council (a pro-slaughter organization), census data from the Government, stolen horse information from netposse.com, and a few others. By the time I was done (after more than a month of data gathering and number crunching), I realized that the anti-slaughter side was actually on the right track.

Forget about the emotional side for a moment, and consider the raw numbers and economics. Sure, things will be hard for a while, but what about the long term effects? If the bottom of the horse market falls out (which it has been doing slowly anyway), what will happen? In my estimation, show horses and other high priced horses should only be minimally effected. That class of horses does not rely on slaughter to set price trends. Their prices follow the demand for the sport/horse, trends in horses/sports, and the generally economy. The sector that will be hit the hardest are the low priced horses, poor quality horses, and “common” horses (those already in a saturated market).

So, what will happen when those horses lose value? Breeders who breed these horses will lose money, horse dealers/traders with this stock will lose money, auction houses will start loosing money. It may take a few breeding seasons, but eventually, these people will get tired of losing money. Breeders will sell out or switch to a better breed/type that will bring in money. Horse dealers/traders will do the same. Auction houses will have to start figuring out how to bring in better horses, different horses, or different “things” to sell. No one likes to lose money!!! Because of the falling prices, the average horse buyer will start demanding better quality for his/her money. It’s Toyota’s lovely “Trade Up” instinct. So, it’s only logical to think that sellers/breeders will follow the money and start breeding/selling better horses. Eventually, we will have a more stable horse market, see better prices, and see better quality horses being bred.

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Here is a post I put on another forum regarding some questions. I thought it might be useful toward this discussion.

Abuse is a totally separate issue from slaughter. If you want tougher abuse laws and more enforcement, contact your State Legislators. Get them to pass tougher punishments and get after the local authorities to enforce the laws. You cannot complain if you do not try to do something about it.

The horses that would have gone to slaughter at auctions will be sold at auction, sold privately, donated to a rescue, donated to a theraputic riding center, donated to a vet school, donated to a zoo or big cat sancturary, or humanely euthanized.

Slaughter is going away. The people that frequent auctions (other than killer buyers) will still go to auctions. Prices for auction horses will go down, but the slaughter buyers buy a SMALL percentage of horses. Last year, 80,000 something horses were slaughtered. There are 9.2 MILLION horses in the USA, 3 million of those registered Quarter Horses. Barely 1% of the horse population was slaughtered.

To put things in perspective, the mortality rate for horses is 10%. That means that over 900,000 horses a year die from illness, injury, accident, or natural causes. Those 900,000 horses are burried, rendered, or incinerated. Only 10% of horses slaughtered are old, sick, injured, or otherwise unusbale. So, that means that only 8,000-10,000 more horses a year will need to be put down. The other 70,000 to 80,000 will be in fine shape to stay in the market.

Alive - Died - Would have been Slaughtered
9,200,000 - 900,000 - 90,000 (we’ll round it up to make it look
better)

That last number looks pretty insignificant when you consider the other two. At least, it does for someone who has taken classes in statistics and economics. The horse economy will be able to absorb those horses. They didn’t spring up from no where, they were already here.

As for the people employed by the slaughter industry. The truck drivers will drive for someone else. I see LOTS of trucks going down the road with “now hiring drivers” signs on them. The actual plant employees quit on a regular basis anyway (it is a VERY high turnover industry), so they’ll get jobs wherever they normally would. The plant owners are from Belgium (and rich), so I imagine they will go home or start up some other business. The USDA inspectors will still work for the USDA. They will just go on to inspect other slaughter facilities.

The REASON for slaughter is that people in Europe and Asia like to eat horses. That is it! There is NOTHING we can do about that. They are entitled to do what their culture finds acceptable. Slaughter does not control horse population and it is not needed to control horse prices. When horses were at their highest price, slaughter buyers still bought, and paid a premium price (up to $1 a pound on the hoof at one point). The ONLY way to stop horse slaughter is to make it illegal. Nothing you do about breeding or population control will effect the number of horses slaughtered.

The ONLY private sale horses that will be effected (price wise) are those of mediocre or low quality and those that are “common” (breeds or types that already have a saturated market). So, people breeding quality horses that are not in a saturated market and are currently selling for good prices should NOT be effected much. If you think you fall in this category, but you do end up having problems selling, then you were wrong and/or the market in general in your area is going down (as it has been for the last 5 or 6 years). Breeders that produce quality foals that have a good market, and they (the people) know how to properly market their foals, will survive. When things settle down, prices will go up, prices will be more stable, we will see better horses being bred (since that is where the money will be), and profits will be better than they have in the last 5 years.

I base these opinions and forecasts on my own knowledge of the slaughter industry (which is from independent research of ALL sources, I was pro-slaughter once upon a time), knowledge and experience on both the amature and professional side of the horse industry, and knowledge gained from taking courses at college in economics, statistics, philosophy, history, theory, and research methods. My opinions are not just pulled out of my rear end, or regurgitated from some worthless PETA web site (who I dispise by the way, PETA makes it hard for the rest of us to get through to people…).

—————————- –

Also, here is my Summary of all of the areas I researched. I do speak a little on the “emotional” side of things, but most information is “just the facts.”

In 2004 just under 66,000 horses were slaughtered here in the US for human consumption overseas (nearly 20,000 were exported live to Canada, Mexico, and Japan for slaughter). Their meat is exported to France, Belgium, Italy, and Japan. Horsemeat is generally considered a delicacy in these countries and is higher priced than beef. France alone consumed 300,000 horses in 2003, Italy 350,000 horses. The French numbers may change however. French government officials have suggested to stop the sale of horsemeat in restaurants due to health concerns. Many medications and topical treatments that are commonly use on horses are never to be used on animals intended for food. There is no withdrawal period. (the US numbers are from the USDA, the world numbers I got from a pro-slaughter news article written in 2004.)

The 2005 population of horses in the US is approximately 9.2 million horses (from the American Horse council’s census). The 66,000 slaughtered horses represents 0.7% of the total population. It looks like we’ll hit about 120,000 horses this year (2005), which is 1.3% of the total population. In 1990 over 315,000 horses were slaughtered in the US. The number of horses slaughtered has steadily dropped in the last 14 years while the number of foals being born has increased (with some major fluctuation of the number slaughtered). Drops in the number of horses slaughtered have been almost 80,000 a year at times. During those years we did not see a huge influx of “surplus” horses or a large drop in the price of horses. The number of horses slaughtered every year follows the demand for their meat, not the overall horse population. This illustrates the lack of a need for the slaughter industry to regulate horse population.
The American Horse Council estimates that 10% of the horse population dies every year, either by accident/injury, illness, or natural causes. That means 920,000 horses will die this year. That HUGE number (800,000+) of horses dying from ways other than slaughter has not createed a bad enviornmental impact, like the AMVA and AQHA would like you to think. So the number of horses that will die outnumbers those that will be slaughtered by 9:1. Statistically speaking, the number of horses slaughtered every year is insignificant. (the American Horse Council, which is an arguably pro- slaughter organization.)

California passed similar legislation in 1998. Since then, horse thefts have dropped almost 40% and continue to drop every year (based on police reports filed for stolen animals). Horse prices have remained steady. Abuse cases in California have not risen at all, and have declined in areas, while the national average is on the rise. Also, during the years that the Illinois slaughter facility was closed, abuse numbers leveled off and even began to fall. Ironically (or maybe not), Texas has the highest rate of horse abuse in the nation. This illustrates that ending slaughter will not encourage the mass neglect and abuse of horses.

The method of transporting horses to slaughter is inhumane. Horses often travel 36 hours or more without rest, food, or water in cramped double decker trailers (this is standard operating procedure, ask any killer buyer). These trailers are built for shorter animals such as cattle and pigs; most horses cannot lift their heads. Horses often slip and fall in these trailers arriving at the plants dead or severely crippled. Transportation reform laws were passed in 2002 but they have not done any good. Even proponents of slaughter like Dr. Friend of Texas A&M agree that the transportation of horses to slaughter is inhumane.

The slaughter itself is also inhumane. The chutes that hold the horses are made for cows. Horses are much more flexible with longer necks. They are also more intuitive than cows and have a skittish nature in stressful unfamiliar environments. They thrash about making the captive bolt operator’s job very difficult. The operator often has to stun a horse 3-4 times before rendering the horse unconscious. Sometimes the horse is slaughtered while still alive. USDA considers a 95% rate of unconsciousness before being butchered very acceptable. That means that 3,300 horses (at best) were slaughtered last year while they were still fully alive. The captive bolt gun is used to stun the horses. It’s like a spike on a leash. It is shot into the horse’s head and then retracts back in to the gun. It can be a humane method of a killing a horse (much like a well placed bullet), but the assembly line fashion that these horses are run through makes it nearly impossible.

Horses that go to slaughter are not generally old, sick, crippled, or dangerous. By the slaughter houses’ own records (Dallas Crown and Beltex in Texas) only 10% of horses killed are old, sick, injured, or otherwise “unusable”. Just like beef consumers, people who eat horse want young tender flesh. It’s just plain ridiculous to think that all of the horses being slaughtered are 25 yr. old nags who can barely walk… (this is based on what the actual slaughter plants record) Most horses going to slaughter are not “unwanted”, they are simply at the wrong auction at the wrong time.

And did you know that 40-50,000 horses are stolen in the USA every year? You can verify these statistics with Stolen Horse International, http://netposse.com. Did you know that the only reason the slaughter plants scan for microchips is to remove them so they do not contaminate the meat? This was testimony from plant workers.

One interesting statistic, roughly 70% of all horses that are slaughtered in the USA are quarter horses (stock-type, some with verifiable AQHA papers). This is fact based on the slaughter plants’ records. There are over 3 MILLION registered quarter horses in the USA.

There is no hard proof or evidence that stopping horse slaughter will cause a rise in abuse and neglect, thousands of unwanted horses lining the streets, or envoirnmental problems. BUT, there IS evidence to suggest that stopping horse slaughter will NOT cause these problems.

Oh, Coppermouth, you gave me a wonderful Christmas present, thank you. Because, if YOU think I’m an idiot, that means that I’m not wading in the same pond scum as you.

I quote you:

I am well-educated regarding the animals I raise. I do not make my living sending horses to slaughter; I just believe that slaughter is a HUMANE and necessary practice for the excess of unwanted horses.

There are hungry people right here in the United States that rely on horse meat for subsistence. Don’t believe me? Research a little bit and you will find that one of the proposed amendments, known as the King of Iowa amendment, would have allowed for the continued consumption of horse meat by Native Americans and other groups. (end quote)

And I reply:

You should note that: Chief Arvol Looking Horse - 19th generation keeper of the White Buffalo Calf Pipe Bundle and holds the responsibility of spiritual leader among the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota People, is against horse slaughter. And you can find that at: http://www.horse-protection.or g/info.php?id=37, along with all the other organizations and individuals /against/ horse slaughter.

I do not know where you dig up your insignificant facts, nor do I care to know, but for whatever monetary reason you are against stopping this barbarism, please remember that you will someday have to account for your actions.

And “the idiot” as you call me, will remind you to at some point in your life to read a dictionary. Slaughter cannot be HUMANE! Humane slaughter is an oxymoron: Humane - having or showing compassion. Slaughter - the killing of a large number of humans or animals in a cruel and violent way.

Oh, and just in case: oxymoron - a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction.

I also find it interesting that the pig and cattle industry are so very against horse slaughter. I’ve been fighting to end this for over one year now and about six months ago, I just stopped eating beef because I couldn’t stand to look at it anymore. I think the cattle industry would be better off in the long run if they’d just let this ban go through. I’ve heard of others that have also stopped due to this fight and the longer it goes on, the more customers they will lose.

And in conclusion, I wish you all a happy holiday and know that we will succeed in 2007 to ban this horrific practice in the United States.

Marjorie

Hey Cottonmouth cowgirl,

Are you and your meat industry friends who think anything with hooves should be made into meat on a platter denying the fact that horses are not regulated and can’t be regulated for veterninary medications that are banned from food animals?

You of course know, being a cowgirl, that the most popular equine anti-inflammatory / pain reliever - we know as Bute - is not approved for any use in food animals in this country and in the meat eating EU any horse that’s ever been given Bute in its lifetime is not to EVER enter the human food supply. That’s an EU law.

How do your vet buddies defend that? On the one hand they inject and prescribe a drug labeled “Do not use in horses intended for human consumption” every day of their careers while on the other hand support feeding this meat from these horses to foreign consumers. Ever have a vet administer Bute to your horse and then tell you to never allow it to be slaughtered for human consumption? Me either! No one has! But they’ll tell you if it’s a goat.

American horsemeat is: adulterated, a food safety issue, and in violation of US export laws because it is in conflict of the laws of the countries it’s exported to.

Being a horseowner, like myself, I assume you, as I, also have a tube or two of Bute paste in your refrigerator. American horsemeat would never pass FDA standards for consumption in this country, funny how we don’t seem to give a damn about foreign consumers. Not even the AVMA and FDA who by law are responsible for the safety of meat products regardless of who consumes them care.

Bute Burgers anyone? They’re tasty and carcinogenic.

Copper - get your facts straight on the horses that go to slaughter. My own 5 y.o. TB ex-racer was neither old, sick, crippled, or mean. He is a healthy, gentle animal just like you profess to raise. He was going to slaughter along with tens of thousands of other TBs just like him. Why? Greed, greed and more greed. You people make me sick. I have a wonderful, beautiful animal and he is so lucky to have someone like me than the likes of you and your kind. Don’t try to cram your false information on the kinds of horses that are slaughtered down people’s throats. They’re not buying it any longer - sorry! Besides - your precious slaughterhouses AREN’T supposed to take animals to slaughter that aren’t able to support themselves on all four limbs. Are you saying that they are? Then either you’re a liar - or they’re violating the law. Which is it? You people can’t decide!

Don’t worry everyone - we won’t be listening to the bantering of pro-slaughter people much longer. They are in the minority - thank God - for they are a sorry lot! I shudder to think that people with their mentality are co-habitating in our country with us. No wonder this country is so screwed up! They all need a lesson on what’s HUMANE - maybe a captive bolt to their own heads while their fighting for their lives and slipping on blood-soaked cement floors will do the trick!

well i for one dont want to base my research on commonhorsesense
check this out…

http://www.equineweb design.com/horse-slaughter/in- the-press/20040620233215.html

It doesn’t matter at all to whom commonhorsesense.com is registered.

Commonhorsesense.com simply works to demonstrate that there are hundreds of organizations that oppose S 1915–and if someone is getting paid to do that, more power to them. It presents a great deal of information from PhDs in various fields of expertise, who know the banning of horse slaughter to be the disaster it is.

Among the multitude of organizations opposing S 1915 are horse organizations, science organizations, commerce organizations, cattle, sheep, and pig organizations. Obviously, this demonstrates that there are a multitude of industries that the passing of S 1915 would damage greatly. NOT just the horse slaughter industry, (which is necessary in and of itself.)

The horse industry should be thankful for commonhorsesense.com, no matter to whom it is registered. There need to be sites that do something to counter the cesspool of melodramatic anti-processing blather.