Willie is completely correct. We need to stop this barbaric practice of sending our horses, who carry our police, our children and our soldiers into battle, to slaughter.

Some will advocate that slaughter is humane – is it humane to skin and dismember an animal that is still alive and in some cases, still conscious? In addition, what people don’t know is that they are slaughtering foals, pregnant mares and young sound horses so that Europeans and Asians can feast on our American horses.

Two Kentucky Derby winners have been slaughtered:

Exceller – Only horse to beat two Triple Crown winners, Seattle Slew and Affirmed. Earned $1,654,003 and died in a slaughterhouse on Apr. 7th, 1997 two years before being inducted into the National Museum of Racing Hall of Fame.

Ferdinand – 1986 Kentucky Derby winner and 1987 Horse of the Year. Earned $3,777,978 retiring as the then 5th leading money winner of all time. Slaughtered in Sept. 2002 to avoid the cost of supporting him after his retirement.

Is this what we want to happen to our horses? To be served as a delicacy, after working for us or winning races for us? If not, please call your Senators and ask them to co-sponsor and support without amendments, S. 1915! It’s so important to end this atrocity.

For more information go to: http://www.saplonline.org/horses.htm

Marjorie

Well done Elizabeth Goodman! Thank you, from our American Horses. There is one correction to make. We are now contracting our Senators. We contacted our Congressmen/women about two months ago and they came through with flying colors.

This subject is near and dear to my heart. I started a horse rescue 2 years ago to help horses at risk of slaughter. These animals are very appreciative and the practice of horse slaughter is inhumane and brutal from the time a horse lands in the hands of the kill buyer.

We are a civilized nation allowing foreign owned plants to butcher our companion animals. Do we allow this for our dogs and cats?

No! and we shouldnt for our horses.

Mr. Nelson is very perceptive in his feeling about horses. As president and co-founder of a horse rescue I can attest that his perception is extremely accurate. Horese are a very caring and sensitive animal. They feel pain and fear. Many of the horse we have saved over the years have responded in uncanny ways to the people caring for them. Most of our current herd adore children and will wrap their heads and necks around them to give them hugs as children are no threat to them. Is this an animal that needs to be slaughtered to serve the well-to-do in Europe. Absolutely not. The horse is to be revered. The horse helped us to settle this nation. They have fought and died in American wars. They carried us westward. They provide recreation to thousands. The horse going to slaughter are not old or infirmed. By the USDA’s own records most of the horses killed for their meat are young healthy animals. Many have been stolen from their owners to turn a quick profit. The three kill plants still operateing in this country employ approximately 120 people so closing the plants down will have minimal impact on our economy and the kill plants pay very little in taxes. The only people hurt in closing down these plants will be the employees who get a thrill by killing animals. If they lose their jobs maybe they can move to Europe so they can continue their killing. Americans must stop this senseless slaughter.

Right on! Spare a horse, and eat a cow or pig! Hello!

Many people are surprised to learn that the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Equine Practitioners Association are against this legislation. Why? Because it fails to adequately address the welfare of the horses it spares from processing.

In veterinary medicine, unlike human medicine, welfare includes humane euthanasia … in this case, a captive bolt gun that causes instant death. This is much more humane than a slow death caused by starvation, disease, abuse, or neglect.

There is video of slaughter on the Web that looks frightening, but there is no proof that it occured in the United States, in plants overseen by federal regulations and oversight, including a veterinarian.

Horse slaughter is highly regulated, from purchase to transportation to slaughter … there are a lot of claims of horses being stolen, but I’ve yet to see a substantiated claim in the past 10 years … it reeks of urban legend.

It’s not a pleasant thing … I’m not pro-slaughter. But it’s a more complex issue than what many people would have you believe. I encourage everyone to seek out the facts, not just from the animal rights people or the industry folks, but from science-based organizations (like AVMA and AAEP).

I’m a christian and the Bible says that when the world ends that Jesus will be riding riding a Big White Horse when he returns to earth. Doesn’t that mean something? I’m very much against Horse slaughter.

To BuckMitchFloyd:

Perhaps you will take a statement from a veterinarian who actually worked for the USDA; I refer to Peggy Larson. You can read her statement on quite a few sites, but this is the short version: http://www.sharkonline.org/?P= 0000000530

She states: “I was in a large animal practice for eight years and occasionally had to euthanize horses. I tried to make the process as peaceful as possible, often putting the horse under surgical anesthesia before euthanasia. The usual method of euthanasia was a high concentration of barbiturates.

With veterinary induced euthanasia the horse is treated gently, and a needle is slipped carefully into its vein. If the horse is too wild or reacting too violently from a painful injury or medical condition, he is given the anesthetic drug in the muscle. Either way, there is no rush to finish killing the animal. The drug is allowed to put the horse in an anesthetized state so that an IV needle can be inserted in its vein. The euthanasia material is then administered until the horse dies.

In a slaughter plant, processing speed is more important than keeping the horse calm or treating the horse gently. The animals are stressed from the time they are unloaded. Horses are easily frightened, and in a loud slaughter plant where they are rapidly herded into runs leading to the stunning area they are very scared. Sometimes the holding pens are dirty and not protected from the weather. Sometimes the horses are injured, sick or old. They should be handled gently, with special care and sensitivity.

Slaughter plants do not consider the condition of the horse. The horse is just meat on the hoof to be killed, processed, and sold as fast as the process will allow. I would never send one of my horses to a slaughterhouse, and I would never suggest that a client do so.”

I also think that we should all consider where the statements of “pro-slaughter” are coming from, i.e., perhaps there are donations coming from the ranchers who would prefer to sell their horses to slaughter, after they have worked for them and can no longer, instead of having to pay for humane euthanisia?

And, I will tell you that I know people who are rescuing foals, pregnant mares and young sound horses from the auctions, so they don’t go to the killers.

Mitch, who would want to eat an old sick horse? And even if they were, this a horrific end for an animal who works their lifetime for us, whether it be carrying our children, our police, our soldiers, or all the other work they do for us.

Marjorie

For every positive word written here about the Noble Equine, I praise these good horse people. In truth, any argument the pro-slaughter faction puts forth is patently false. Their desire for slaughter is due to their irresponsibility and the desire to make a couple of hundred dollars per horse butchered. To quote John Hettinger, “We have no desire to point a finger at anybody or hurt anybody, but the lowest common denominator cannot be allowed to prevail any longer. We must end the slaughter of horses. The ever-expanding network of rescue agencies operated by horse lovers from coast to coast will put their shoulders to the wheel to make this work.” Responsible horse people will take care, when the killer buyers and the slaughter houses are out of business – ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Please help pass this bill! Call your Senator and ask them to co-sponsor this. EVERY DAY MORE HORSES ARE KILLED in these plants until this law is passed. Do not sit on the sidelines, pick up the phone, it takes 1 minute of your time and will save many horses!

To BuckMitchFloyd: I have several points in rebuttal.

1. Yes, there are regulations to make horse slaughter humane, but they are not actively enforced, especially now that the slaughterhouse owners pay the salaries of the USDA inspectors (last spring’s end run against the legislation that was intended to eliminate slaughter, as desired by the majority of the American people). The 100,000 horses who have been killed so that non-Americans can eat their flesh is a small number compared to the cattle, sheep, pigs and poultry that DO feed Americans, yet their suffering proportionally much larger.

2. You say that the videos circulating are not proven to be from U.S. plants — I contend they are. These plants are not even contributing to the U.S. economy — the town where one is located, in Texas, has been trying to shut it down for years. All 3 are owned by foreign companies, and their profits go offshore — one of these companies famously paid only $5 in federal taxes one recent year. Plant employees are few and many are not U.S. citizens. We who want to see horse killing stopped are not necessarily vegetarians — we just don’t eat horses, so why should our horses feed foreigners?

3. It is highly unlikely that a ban on slaughter will lead to “slow death caused by starvation, disease, abuse, or neglect” for a single horse. When slaughter WAS outlawed for a time in the 1990s, reports of abuse went down. More tellingly, so did stolen horses — there are no figures on the percentage of horses killed for meat that are stolen, since the plants for obvious reasons don’t check for this. (Note the report just a few weeks ago about a trainer who stole a horse that was about to be adopted out, and sold it to slaughter.)

4. I ask that you think again about those “science-based” organizations. They do not represent the majority of equine practitioners — a prominent spokesperson for one of them is not even a large animal vet. How would she know what’s good for horses if she doesn’t treat them? Finally, as Mr. Nelson points out, I am astonished that reputable veterinarians would be in favor of selling horsemeat as a foodstuff — because we do not raise our horses as livestock, we are free to inject them, orally dose them, spray them and wipe them with substances that state “not for use on animals intended as food.” Some of the most common drugs given to horses as painkillers, anti-inflammatories, insectidides, parasiticides and antibiotics are ILLEGAL in other species, such as cattle. I don’t quite understand how the Europeans can stomach this toxic mix, but apparently they are being sold a bill of goods over there, just as you have been over here.

Contrary to previous information the horses are not killed with the bolt gun, it is not meant to kill them. It’s purpose is to stun them unconscious,if they are lucky, the horses must remain alive when their throats are cut after they are hung up by their leg to bleed out. How healthy is it to consume meat that has come from animals which has been filled with drugs to keep it working. In California after they passed the bill to ban horse slaughter the rate of stolen horses declined , the number of abused and abandoned horses did not increase. Please check your facts.

I have said it before and I will keep on saying it until this is stopped. We do not now nor have we ever, raised horses for human consumption. That is just prepsterous.
Horses helped settle this country, without them, it wouldn’t have been settled yet. They have carried us into battle thoughout history, even as late as World War II, They plowed our fields, and carried our buurdens…They crossed prairie and desert to get the mail through. They ran races that thrilled, and stepped lively in the show ring. They jump the highest barriers and give until there is no more to give. We send them to slaughter for their efforts?
All they ask is a kind word, agentle touch, and enough to eat at the end of the day. We owe them more than we can ever re-pay.
They certainly don’t deserve abandonment, fear and death for what they offer.
Statistics and rhetoric can never replace human decency. They ask so little, and give so much. Where is the conscience of those who agree with this horrible end for this most noble of creatures.

There are currently 3 US slaughtehouses remaining; all owned by foreigners. They pay no US taxes, and they are not slaughtering horses as a service to the farmers. Horses are slaughtered to make lots of money when their meat is sold overseas. There is NO other reason.

I don’t presume to tell people what they can eat. If they want to eat horsemeat (UGH) that is their right. I just say, in that event, raised their own horses for slaughter,build their own slaughter houses, and leave our horses alone.
Do you know our wild horses, an icon of the West that many hold dear, are being rounded up and sent to slaughter? Isn’t that a heartening picture?

Mr.Nelson is most definitely accurate in all his observations about the majestic, intelligent, and wonderfully graceful Horse. Horses are companion animals who carry us, work for us, and show genuine love and caring for those people fortunate enough to share their lives and hearts with them.
They are worthy of far better treatment and respect than they receive from human beings who send them to these ” Horrific Kill Plants”. One of the slaughter house videos that accurately show the horrors these poor animals experience, and the ineffective Captive Bolt Gun shooting- repeatedly into the wrong place on a horse causing needless extended suffering is from a Texas slaughter house, not from a foreign slaughter house.

These animals are aware of what is goign on, they can see what is happening, smell it, and they feel pain, fear, and terror just as you and I do. This is not the end any animal deserves after it has given the owner years of hard work and loyalty- they do not deserve to end up on the dinner plate in some foreign country. The road to the slaughterhouse from start to finish is not highly regulated as someone’s comments has eluded to here.
“The Missouri Double Decker Slaughterhouse Transport Accident on September 27, 2006″ is a tragic example of the immense lack of regulations in the Horse slaughter industry. Information/accounts can be read @: http://www.freedomhillrescue.o rg/news.html

Please help put a final stop to this tragic blight on our nation by writing your Senators and urging support for the “American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act”. Please help the horses to one day live the life they truely deserve. Thank You.

I found out about the brutal practice of horse slaughter after my family bought our first racehorse. I learned the ones that weren’t competitive were sent there, even though they could still be useful in a different career. Horse Lovers United was founded in 1992 for the purpose of finding new homes for the unwanted. Many thousands of people in this country have found happiness with these “unwanted” horses through the hundreds of equine welfare groups that exist.

Please, For the love of God who created these wonderful animals who were born for us to admire. if you ever owned a horse or just sat on one you would feel how close they are to humans. I pray that this slaughter will stop immediately. if we call ourselves humans then show it.

To Buckmitchfloyd

You sound like a real horses-ass, perhaps we should send you to slaughter. Then you can finally once and for all know the true horrors that take place in these atrocious facilities. I’ll even buy the ticket for you to get there. Just let me know if you want to know the truth, until then just stick your head back in the sand and shut the heck up.

If Americans wanted horses slaughtered we would have them in our supermarkets. Our horses are treated as pets, like dogs and cats, we name them, we make them companions. We work with them from the time they are born to earn their trust and they work with us and for us. They race for us, jump and rodeo for us. They work with handicapped to provide an outlet to being handicapped, they help our wounded soldiers, they babysit our kids and provide a help for older people and troubled kids. In the end, they carry our presidents to their final resting places. One thing I have never really understood, since we don’t eat them and the majority of Americans have shown they don’t want horses slaughered, since the House and the Senate voted last year to ban it and the president signed it into a law being changed by the USDA, why is it even still a question? Americans didn’t want horses slaughter last year and they still don’t want them slaughtered this year. Lets get this finished now, everyone call and write and fax your senators and get this done.

i agree totally
horses are amazing
this has to stop now

Previous posts have described the horror of the slaughter house. The slaughter plant is only the final appalling process in a journey that is in no way the deserved end to an animal who has been our friend and helper for centuries.

Horses bought by killbuyers are brutally shoved into trailers, where the panicked horses fight to escape. Pregnant mares, stallions, geldings, minis, young colts and fillies – they are all jammed into an overcrowded trailer with no food or water to travel many hundreds of miles to a slaughter plant. Horses are severely injured and some are even dead before the truck arrives at the plant, where they are subjected to the brutal process, which is neither swift nor merciful.

Those that oppose the ending of slaughter because of concerns about horse overpopulation might want to consider that if slaughter were not an easy option for disposal of surplus horses, breeders would be forced to stop overbreeding, especially of Quarterhorses, Standardbreds, and Thoroughbreds, in their frantic search to get the next Poco Bueno, Dan Patch, or Secretariat. Owners of sick or critically injured horses should take the responsibility to have a vet euthanize the horse humanely, and the cost of this and disposal of the remains should be taken into consideration before anyone decides to own a horse.

Furthermore, shelters and rescues all over the country are uniting in their efforts to rehome horses.

Willie is a hero of the horses. He is giving them the voice they do not have. The American public for the most part are unaware of this barbaric act of slaughtering horses in foreign owned slaughterhouses for foreign appetites. This is wrong and it needs to stop. Every 4 minutes one of these beautiful, magnificant creatures loses their life. It is senseless! What justification could the American government give for this? Are we feeding our country that is starving? NO! We are feeding foreigners at $20.00-$30.00 per lb. Unwanted horses? No such thing, just look at how many rescues are taking in horses when they can raise money to buy them from the killer buyers. Every single American needs to read the facts and get involved. Ask a New York City Mounted Police Officer how he feels about slaughter of his companion, partner. If you really want to see a graphic look at this practice, go to http://www.equineadvocates.com. If you want to get involved, go to http://www.hsus.org and email your senators. For the sake of these innocent horses please do something to stop this!

The greed needs to stop NOW.
The killing of Our American Heritage needs to END.
Why would Americans support Soviet Owned Slaughter Houswes on American Soil.
These companies do not even pay one dime in taxes due to the loop_holes Our Silli Government provides them.
All profits arwe realized in France & Belgium.
Call Your Senators TODAY.
To support the Bill S-1915 which will end this ugly practice.

Justin Michael

I commend RS and Willie for this article. As far as the general public goes we need to be proactive. Contact your State Senators today, ask them to cosponsor S.1915.
If people want to make a difference right now, Volunteer or Donate to your local horse rescue! Most large orginizations are not involved in the day to day of saving horses from slaughter. Most of these orgs. deal in small animal rescue with a tiny fraction of their budget going to Equine Care and Education.
There are rescues all over this country who attend kill auctions and sale barns trying to stop horses from entering the Slaughter Circuit.
Other rescues in this country often take in OFF Track Race Horses called OTTB and OTSTB.
Many of these horses simply were not meant to race, others were rode into the ground by unethical trainers and owners.
Many other rescue facilities take in horses from their local community, when equine can no longer be cared for by caring owners who do not want to send their beloved pet to a uncertain future or help local law enforcemnt after a negelct/abuse seizure. Often the rescues will never see full reimbursement for the care of the victims of abuse and neglect. The Vet bills can climb into the 1000’s plus feed and supplement costs to get these horses back to good health can be astronomical.
There are lots of ways to find these rescues and to make sure it is a Rescue for the horses and not for a human ego or wallet.
Research and networking is a New Volunteers best way of finding a reputable rescue to work with.
Yahoo! Groups, Google and MySpace all have resources that the general public can access. Check with your local equestrian community or when at your local fair many times these rescues will have boothes to raise awareness. College and High School Students can earn their community service hours and Scout groups can earn badges. At risk and special needs kids can interact with an empathic councler(horses) and their parents will see their kids blossom!!

Well said Marjorie! I also encourage readers to check out the November issue of Vanity Fair and read the article on horse slaughter there. It shows just how sneaky Senator Burns was about taking away legislation that was already in place to protect wild horses and burros – which are also slaughtered here in the U.S and ultimately it does come down to greed and not science.

I wish all you so called horse lovers would just shut up.

I wish y’all would leave animals up to people who really know about animals…people in agriculture.

I get so sick and tired of people from suburban areas whining and complaning about how animals are treated when they wouldn’t know a quarter horse from a paint horse. Slaughter is not a pretty business, but it has to be done.

2 agruments that are made the most often about horse slaughter; nobody raises them for food and there is enough rescue space. Well, the Lakota Sioux Nation does raise horses for sale knowing that a percentage of them will go to slaughter.

Second, ending slaughter will result in between 80,000 and 100,000 horses being pushed into the market. Current rescue facilities are maxed out. They have room for 6,000 head. So please explain where these animals will go. And do not use “they will be absorded” into the system…nope give me somthing solid. Why is the HSUS not buying land out west to act as a rescue facility?

Until people put their money on the line to buy land, feed and care for horse…just shut the hell up and let me do with my horses as i please.

Willie is right. But horse slaughter is only the tip of the iceberg…all horse (and other livestock owners) are going to be required by the USDA to:

1. register their premises like sex offenders and child molesters have to do (and pay a yearly fee in some states with no guarantee it will not go up and up)

2. animal identification- all livestock must be micro chipped ($400-$500 for scanner and cost of chips cost whcih can be easily tampered with) The big megafarms will not have to microchip every critter, they just get lot numbers.

3. animal tracking–all animal births, deaths and off property movements must be reported within 24 hours or face huge fines. (The big megafarms will not have to file reports!)

Sound like fun? And of course, there will be fees with filing. When will you ever get time to ride that horse or milk that cow?

Here is some better news on how this program will protect us from animal disease. If disease is even suspected in a 6 mile radius area all livestock can be depopulated. (See the Henshaw story at nonais.org. They were held hostage for 10 days by the USDA while all their livestock were killed, though none were tested!)

NAIS is the creation of USDA/APHIS/NIAA, the latter of which is a consortium of mega-agribusinesses who began planning this system before 1996. It had nothing to do with BSE and has nothing to do with disease management. It was conceived by the likes of Tyson, Cargill, Monsanto, National Pork Producers, etc. with the sole purpose of gaining, expanding and ensuring the foreign meat export business. When you say “federal officials” it is quite misleading because NAIS is merely a mandate and has not crossed any congressional desks, it is not a law.
check out nonais.org for more info.

If they want to eat horse fine but raise the horses as cattle. Don’t eat these poor animals after they spent their entire lives working for us! Raise them like cows or pigs. But do it where there lives are comfortable. There is no reason on earth that these animals that give there lives for us to eat need to be stuffed in pens and neglect or abused. Treat all these animals humanely. If they have to give their lives treat them like we actually appreciate them for it. And don’t make working animals or pets dinner.

To: Home grown cat,

You sound like you are about as ignorant as they come. We animal lovers are trying to raise money to buy land for rescues. If people like you would stop breeding these horses for your own personal monetary gain, and then throwing them out like garbage when you are done with them, we would not have this problem. So why don’t you shut your hick mouth up. Cause the only thing coming out of it is a bunch a horsecrap!!!!!!!!!

Hey HomeGrwon Cat YOU are as Clueles about the people supporting the ban as you are probably are about how Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11!!!!!
We spend 1000’s of dollars a month cleaning up your mess!!!
People like you think horses were put here for you to use up and throw away! That is an actual sin did you know that? It’s ungodly to the core. And since you have NO clue what you are talking about you are the one who should shut up and get out of the Horse business!!!!

Dear Home Grown Cat:

I know a quarter horse from a paint. I’m also in agriculture. Not only that I work with farms in an agribusiness field.

I don’t think this forum was supposed to be about bashing everyone, it was supposed to comment on the article about Willie Nelson and slaughter. When you do your homework on slaughter, drag yourself out of your own “viewpoint” to hear what someone else has to say, and actually learn to sign your God-given name, come back and post again.

In the meantime, I take this issue quite seriously, as well as the NAIS issue and will do my utmost to help stop horse slaughter and NAIS.

And, I thank Rolling Stone for sitting up and paying attention to the issue.

o I would never question the heartfelt connection Willie Ne ls on has with horses, but as a horse lover who recognizes the need for these processing plants to address the problem of tens of thousand of unwanted horses, I resent that Ne ls on appears to question my views.

o In fact, every person that opposes this legislation is a lover of horses. It’s because of our love and respect for these anima ls that we are fighting to save this humane and federally supervised end-of-life option for horses.

o More than 200 animal welfare organizations including the American Veterinary Medicine Association and the American Association of Equine Practitioners (the largest group of horse vets in the world) strongly disagree with Willie Nelson.

o The legislation Willie Nelson is supporting is so misguided that it will actually make conditions WORSE for horses.

o This bill ignores the realities of the equine industry. Legislators and their constituents may have to endure a chain reaction of bad things that can happen to unwanted horses if this bill is passed.

o A ccording to the A merican Horse Council, nearly half of all horse owners earn between $25 and $75K per year. Many of these people cannot afford the fees required for proper, private disposal of their horses. A report issued by nine professors from six universities — available at http://www.commonhorsesense.com – says that some owners will have no other option but to abandon the animal, slaughter it themselves and prepare the carcass for rendering, or simply neglect it by not adequately feeding the horse.

o Not everyone has the land and the fortune to care for 11 horses through to the end of their life like Willie Ne ls on appears to have. The nation’s patchwork of horse rescue facilities is already overwhelmed by current demands. How are we going to care for 90,000 additional horses EVERY YE A R?

o These horses are not bred to be slaughtered. Through a variety of circumstances they have become unwanted. Just like there are about 9 million healthy cats and dogs that have to be put down every year because there is no home for them, so too must we, unfortunately, find a humane end of life option for these horses.

o A s a horse lover, I am comforted to know that at the processing plants, a federal veterinarian inspector is on hand to assure that every animal is put down without needless suffering.

o Transportation of horses to a slaughter facility is regulated by stringent laws designed to protect horses. No other animal has humane treatment laws governing its transportation to slaughter, so horses are already protected more than any other livestock animal.

o The current network of horse rescue facilities can only handle a small percentage of the 60,000 – 90,000 unwanted horses that would populate the country if this bill is passed. The result would be devastating to these thousands of unwanted horses.

o The current horse processing model is an essential regulated and supervised end-of-life option for unwanted horses.

HORSE TASTES GOOD

As a horse owner I must say that poor Willie is very misinformed about the horse slaughter ban. If this bill is enacted we will have thousands of unwanted animals literally abandoned and starving to death. How cruel can you be.

Well said Marjorie. I would also urge readers to check out this months Vanity Fair which has an excellent article about this business and Senator Burns, pandering to those who would take away protection and land from wild horses and burros (also sent to slaughter)

To all of you supporting the horse slaughter ban: Please go to
http://www.animalwelfarecouncil.com /html/pdf/consequences.pdf. People, for God’s sake (yes, I said GOD), we as citizens of the US have more important issues to contemplate and spend our tax dollars on. How about healthcare? education? housing? Iraq? Pollution?…just to name a few. For me the horse slaughter ban is just another of my freedoms taken away. I do not raise horses for food but it should be my right if I choose too. Not the decision of a bunch of well intended, misinformed people and some wealthly celebrities.
THIS IS ABOUT MY RIGHTS! People who want to send their horses to slaughter should have the right to do so.
Are any of you anti slaughter supporters out there gay? You all want rights. How about minorities? You all want rights. Well, I want rights, too.

The ignorance of many of these comments is appalling!
I have a horse Rescue, I go to killer auctions and see the horrible things there. Healthy, young, pregnant, babies, older horses are all meat for profit.
“Butchered,” stuggling as they bleed out and die, no humanity about it.
Don’t spout statistics to me about the number of horse rescues and what we can handle.
As for the Vets, and some Horse Organizations, who support the slaughter it is politics and greed.
Horses know they are going to die, they don’t just stand there. They fight.
What we have done and are doing to our American Heritage should shame us all. Unfortuanely, un-informed, ignorant people have the right to voice their opinion.
How many horses do you think died in the defense and settlement of this country for your right to speak you mind??? Think about it!

I EAT HORSE ON A DAILY BASIS AND LOOK AT ME

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT YOU EAT THE HORSE AFTER IT IS TOO OLD AND WEAK TO PULL THE BUGGY ANYMORE

Willie is right!! Only greedy , uncaring people would sell there horses for slaughter. Next they will sell their dogs and cats . The vets that do inspections at slaughter houses only inspect the meat and they are being paid by the slaughter plant owners so whose side do you think they are on!
Also the AVMA did NOT poll the members–my son, his partner , and other vets I know were not asked and they are all against slaughter. Anyone with compassion as vets ought to have knows slaughter is NOT euthanasia. The horses struggle and often get hit several times with the stun gun. Then while still alive and some still concious they are strung up by one back leg and have their throats cut.
As for unwanted –the people often sell their horses at auctions and do not know about killer buyers and many horses are being stolen.
California passed a law 6 years ago against horse slaughter and horse care increased and horse theft decreased by 34%.
THe claim that there will be thousands of starving horses and over-run rescues is false.Only 1% of the total population go to slaughter and horses are even being imported from Canada to slaughter . This untrue claim is not based on fact and is being put out by organizations that encourahge overbreeding.
90% of the slaughtered horses are young and healthy. If a horse does need to be euthanized by an injection there are redering plants that will pick up the body for a slight fee or free or horses can be buried .
I have been a farm and horse owner for most of my life. Before that my father and one grandfather farmed and owned horses. The other grandfather was a country doctor and loved his horse who faithfully pulled his buggy on housecalls and while he napped brought him home safely many times.
Horses are not raised for food and the AVMA even classifies them as companion animals–not livestock.
So all you who do not know the truth I urge you to visit http://www.AHDF.org, http://www.eqineadvocates.com, http://www.horse-protection.org . If you want to see how a horse is slaughtered visit http://www.SHARK.org Then TRY to tell me it is humane .

I thank Willie and his entourage for bringing the plight of the horses into the limelight, and having the balls to do so.

Horse activists need more entertainers and public figures willing to speak out, as they get credibility with the press and people in General.

God Bless you Willie for using your status to help the horses.

The attrocities that occur during transport, and at the slaughter houses in general are so inconceivible by most.

To slaughter an animal that was a part of someones family, or our national heritage i.e. free roaming mustangs is less than human.

Greed is the bottom line. Ferdinan the Famous KY Derby Winner was sent to the slaughter house in his Golden years. That should say it all. It wasn’t enough this horse won it’s owner hundreds of thousands of dollars from his racing career and the prestige that came with the breeding shed. So how does a horse like that end up in a slaughter house instead of being humanely destroyed and buried on the farm in which his beloved mares and foals live, passing on his extrodinary genes? His greedy owners had to get the last buck out of him. Deplorable.

It’s beyond comprehension how people can support horse slaughter. I blame the uncaring and ignornance of people on the “me at all costs and screw the next guy” attitude that seems to dominate the U.S. and the world for that matter. Whether it’s for a vote, a job promotion, a new car, etc… it all boils down to one thing, more money in the bank/greed.

The stupid arguement that there would be a flood of unwanted animals is rediculous. What would happen is the horse market would be flooded for a while, then people would stop breeding so many horses. If you’re in the business of making money as a breeder it’s bad business to over produce your product, and unlike some products, horse are expensive to raise, and the profit margin is small to begin with. Most,people breed horses out of love for them.

As for the Wild ones that are by hook or crook sent to the slaugher house, there would be no where for them to go, and cut off the cash supply for doing it.

The slaughter of hundreds and thousands of horses a year is in no way humane, will not stop the abuse or neglect of the animals, nor will it help over population in horse numbers. Stop breeding grade horses!Stop breeding just to be breeding! Adopt!!!!Rescues are abundant in our country- instead of shipping your unwanted horse to an auction where you know kill buyers will be, donate to a local rescue. History was made from the back of a horse, how soon we forget!

BuckMitchFloyd
In regards to your statements:
There is video of slaughter on the Web that looks frightening, but there is no proof that it occured in the United States, in plants overseen by federal regulations and oversight, including a veterinarian.
AND
Horse slaughter is highly regulated, from purchase to transportation to slaughter … there are a lot of claims of horses being stolen, but I’ve yet to see a substantiated claim in the past 10 years … it reeks of urban legend.
—-
All those video’s on line were made here in the USA by those on line like the HSUS and friends of ours (who care enough to put their lives out there for their cause) were responsible for filming them. Those of us who are fighting to stop slaughter know they are real and accurate to the teeth. As far as a substantiated stolen horse ending up slaughtered ask those like myself if they got their horse’s back in one piece and healthy! I can vouch for my own, with a resounding NO. You claim you are not proslaughter but you doubt what your own eyes tell you exists. You’ve seen the video’s by your comments and yet seem to ignore the facts in front of your face and insist that they are not fact. And for the record a captive bolt does NOT instantly kill it STUNS the horse (if they are the lucky one) they have to be alive to be bleed out first before butchering. And due to the speed of processing odds are NOT in the horse’s favor when you use untrained low paid non english speaking help! And yes the AVMA and the AEPA are against the bill for they have monetary gain from the prevention of the bill. Their vets are overseeing the process amongst other things. Oh and since when is transporting horse’s in the dead of night on the sneak by criminals in trucks meant for cows a highly regulated practice? You are so very wrong on that comment that this whole start to finish process of slaughter is HIGHLY REGULATED! Get your facts straight. It is known as America’s dirty little secret for a reason!!! As far as the bill NOT addressing the who, what and where of horse’s it does address it. And most importantly there wouldn’t be an issue if responsible horse owners/breeders would take responsibility for the animals entrusted to them, horse’s are NOT a throw a way commodity they are pets, kings of sport and beasts of burden of which if they didn’t work side by side with your forefathers to till the land, fight and die for your freedoms I can’t begin to imagine how different today may be for all who live in America. Willie Nelson is a hero for speaking out to protect horse’s from the clutches of foreign owned plants. And you should be up in arms knowing you are paying taxes and they are taking ALL the money made on our horse’s lives overseas. There are better and more humane ways to put a horse down than slaughter, even if you can’t pay for it that is no excuse – you were able to fed and care for the horse as long as it worked its backside off for you, show it some kindness and compassion and put it down respectfully and peacefully. They deserve no less……..

I am a rancher,horseshoer and have been a willie fan for years and will continue to be,however I think he should stick to his music. If they get horse slughter banned then they can work on cattle, goats and sheep,pigs and maybe even chickens and fish. There are so many more important things to wory about, like abused and hungry children. It’s a sad state of afairs when we wory more about an animal than a child.Besides, Lanell if he will be riding a white horse we want him to have plenty to chose from

Horses have served Man since the dawn of early civilization. If it weren’t for Horses, societies would not be who they are today. It was Horses who valiantly and courageously carried some of the most famous Soldiers into countless battles. It was Horses who bravely and fearlessly carried Man from one century to the next.

And this is how we choose to repay them… How could anyone turn on their best friend? Because that is the way a Horse would see it. You build a lifetime bonding, the Horse carries you on his back, allows you to whip and kick him, choke him with a bit… And at the end of the day, he still loves you anyway. But can you say the same? Or are you the sadistic, heartless a$$hole who is calling up the Glue Factory to see what other minial profit you can possibly make?

Rather than eat an Animal with such a brilliantly, untainted soul, why not eat one with a lack of one? If you are so against Animal-specific slaughter, than why should anyone fight to protect against eating you?

As a horse lover who recognizes the need for these processing plants to address the problem of tens of thousand of unwanted horses, I resent that people question my views as a horse owner.
Every person that opposes this legislation is a lover of horses. It’s because of our love and respect for these animals that we are fighting to save this humane and federally supervised end-of-life option for horses.
More than 200 animal welfare organizations including the American Veterinary Medicine Association and the American Association of Equine Practitioners (the largest group of horse vets in the world) strongly disagree with Willie Nelson and this legislation.
The legislation Willie Nelson is supporting is so misguided that it will actually make conditions WORSE for horses. This bill ignores the realities of the equine industry. Legislators and their constituents may have to endure a chain reaction of bad things that can happen to unwanted horses if this bill is passed.
According to the American Horse Council, nearly half of all horse owners earn between $25 and $75K per year. Many of these people cannot afford the fees required for proper, private disposal of their horses. A report issued by nine professors from six universities — available at http://www.commonhorsesense.com – says that some owners will have no other option but to abandon the animal, slaughter it themselves and prepare the carcass for rendering, or simply neglect it by not adequately feeding the horse.
Not everyone has the land and the fortune to care for 11 horses through to the end of their life like Willie Nelson appears to have. The nation’s patchwork of horse rescue facilities is already overwhelmed by current demands. How are we going to care for 90,000 additional horses EVERY YEAR?
These horses are not bred to be slaughtered. Through a variety of circumstances they have become unwanted. Just like there are about 9 million healthy cats and dogs that have to be put down every year because there is no home for them, so too must we, unfortunately, find a humane end of life option for these horses.
Transportation of horses to a slaughter facility is regulated by stringent laws designed to protect horses. No other animal has humane treatment laws governing its transportation to slaughter, so horses are already protected more than any other livestock animal.
The current network of horse rescue facilities can only handle a small percentage of the 60,000 – 90,000 unwanted horses that would populate the country if this bill is passed. The result would be devastating to these thousands of unwanted horses.

A few things I would like to address;

First, if horse slaughter is banned, how many horses will Willie be adopting?

Second, to the lady that has a resecue facility…I tip my hat to you, you are doing what you believe in and I admire that…but if a horse slaughter ban in enacted what is going to happen to the 80,000-100,000 horses that would normally be slaughtered?

Let’s do some math…figure a horse needs at least 2 acres of great grass in order to live. 2 acres times 80,000 horses equals 160,000 acres. Take the average pasture sale price of $1000 per acre, well we are going to get into some serious cash. Who is going to shell out the cash? The government? The HSUS?…now compound that each year. Or we can put horses in small lots and feedyards like the BLM is doing out west where they end up walking in dirt and manure. Then we have to hear crunchie people complain about the living conditions of horses and the smell.

Lastly, I believe as the owner of horses, they are my property to do with as I please…and that means i can graze them until they die, shoot them in the head, or sale them for slaughter.

MY ANIMALS, MY RESPONSIBILITY…SO BACK OFF

Jeanete | 11/3/2006, 1:22 pm EST

To: Home grown cat,

You sound like you are about as ignorant as they come. We animal lovers are trying to raise money to buy land for rescues. If people like you would stop breeding these horses for your own personal monetary gain, and then throwing them out like garbage when you are done with them, we would not have this problem. So why don’t you shut your hick mouth up. Cause the only thing coming out of it is a bunch a horsecrap!!!!!!!!!
____________________

Hey Jeanete…I’m just responding to the market signals that your suburabnites create when little Sally or little Timmy want a horse but then get tired of it after 2 years.

So please, come up with something good

I see the same old lies here from the pro-slaughter camp. They always call horse slaughter euthanasia, and they always say it is the best thing because otherwise these horses would be abused and neglected. There is not a shred of stastical evidence to support this claim, and the only study on the issue is one I did using government statistics.

When I analyzed the statistics, I found historically that decreases in horse slaughter did not increase abuse and neglect. In fact, on average horse slaughter increases caused abuse and neglect to increase by a factor from 1.04 to 2.73!

http://www.horse-protec tion.org/pdf/Relationship-of-A buse-to-Slaughter.pdf

Now here is my question. Why do pro-slaughter people always feel oblidged to claim they want what is best for horses. Why can’t they just admit that they want to be free to betray their horses because they care more about money. At least it would be honest!

And if slaughter is such a humane way to end a horse’s life, why have I never seen one single post by anyone who admitted currently being a killer buyer, or a slaughter house worker? They don’t even admit to selling their own horses to slaughter. Could it be you are ashamed to admit it?

John Holland

to John Holland;

I have sold several horses to slaughter

a bay mare that went lame

a gelding who lost an eye when he slipped on ice during a winter storm (his stall had run where he could stay inside or go outside.

another gelding that got tangled in wire and suffered nerve damage

a colt that was not breakable

a mare that was too old to work, she was a great pet, but if you’ve ever seen a horse that decides to die and they just waste away no matter how much you feed them…slaughter is a good alternative, it’s quick and painless. (oh and I have seen the slaughter process first hand please don confuse the quiver an animal does as it dies for fighting)

And let’s call a spade a spade, the anit-slaughter uses and recycles the same lies over and over with no fact and all it does is appeal to emotions

I’m getting into this conversation a little late, but I’d like to add one fact I recently learned –one more proof that horse slaughter is hardly a quick, painless death: the horses are not given water for two days leading up to their slaughter so that their hides will peel off more easily. And yet they are supposed to be watered during transport to the plant from the sale barn or feedlot.

It is delusional for anyone to believe that a single animal-welfare regulation is ever actually followed or enforced.

I live in Texas and I see for myself the inhumane cruelty of the slaughter industry. I have seen the pregnant mares and foals at the slaughter feedlots.Several times a week,I see the great looking,healthy ,young horses horses packed like sardines in the low ceiling trailers! Horses are abused,terrified and exhausted from the beginning to the end of the whole slaughter processing ordeal.The slaughter industry is a reward for irresponsible behavior.It is a haven for horse thieves and greedy killer buyers.Horse slaughter needs to be banned forever.S1915 needs to pass .Ramona Foxworth

To homegrowncat –YOU DID NOT USE YOUR REAL NAME?????? WHY ?? If you are so upbeat & so darn proud of selling your horses to killers then why not own up to it?…. Where is your honesty? …..??????Ramona Foxworth

Horse slaughter is a violation of the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958 (amended and made stronger in 2002). There does not exist a method of horse slaughter that complies with the statute. Therefore, horse slaughter is illegal.
Elle
http://www.manesandta ilsorganization.org

There is another side of the Horse Slaughter issue that no one seems to know about. It’s the “KILL PENS” at Shelby, Montana. Average of 2000 plus horses,foals,ponies and mules are kept in holding pens at Shelby, awaiting slaughter in Ft. McCloud, Canada. I am Sandy Parocai, ranch owner up on the Rocky Mountain Front in Northern Montana. I took a job at the Shelby Kill Pens just to get inside so I could see for myself what goes on. We use horses in our ranching operation and as a former Rodeo Trick-Rider I feel I know enough about horses to look at the Shelby Feed Lot in an honest, over all prospective. First, no one is allowed in the yards but employees. I was told to BARR anyone wanting to come in and LOOK at the horses. WHY??? Because we had horses dieing a slow death from dust Phnemonia, foals that had been born in the crowded pens and were either dead from being trampled or injured from attacks from other horses. Some horses die there from COLIC. The worst was horses shipped in from out-of-state warm climates, to winter here. With no shelter or even a wind-break those with out winter coats freeze to death. Horses in crowded pens, in the summer, mill around with a dust cloud raising over thier heads. They can’t do anything but breathe in the dust. Many die from DUST PHNEMONIA. No one was allowed in to see my forman and myself remove horse bodies that had died in the pens, to the back 40. When I worked at Shelby the feed lot capisity was 1,200, MAX! We had 1,976 head there one fall. Crowding caused the lesser horses on the PECKING-ORDER to be injured just trying to get something to eat. Winter here in Northern Montana is generally cold by November. I saw automatic wateres in the pens freeze up. I saw horses licking frost off the pipe corrals just to get moisture. All the while professional people involved at Shelby turned a deaf ear to the suffering that happened there. I worked three months and quit thinking I had enough evidence to make a difference at Shelby. WRONG! Tragically, it took the death of several horses to finally bring charges to the then,Bar S Feed Lot. You see, in 2002 we had a heavy rainfall and horses bogged down in mud and manure and literally drowned in the holding pens there. My forman was fired and charged with Cruelity. He recieved a $50.00 fine and Shelby was allowed to continue operations. The feed lot name is now Glacier Livestock. I have been told that they no longer leave the pregnate mares to foal in the pens. They foal in a pasture and I have video of the foals and mares. Now there is a market in Italy for foal meat and the foals are slaughtered now too. Ponies are” Christmas Turkeys “for the Japenese. They are shipped for slaughter around Dec. 10th. Belgium likes the Draft Horse type. Most all the horses killed are someones pet. The horses we rode around the feed lot were in there to be killed and we were useing them to herd thier own kind to slaughter.The SILVER LINEING TO THIS DARK CLOUD was when my forman at Shelby found a new born red roan filly that haden’t been killed. He said,” Sandy do you want her? Hell, her hide ain’t worth a dollar.” I brought the filly home and raised her. Her name is DOLLAR-HIDE,I love her and she will be on the ranch with me until she dies. I am 64 years old and in my life time I can honestly say: NOTHING SUFFERS MORE THAN A HORSE!!! You decide if this industry is cruel or not. I do have a LOT MORE TRUE STORIES TO TELL. Sandy

I won’t even address homegrowncat, because he obviously has the morals and compassion of a rock. I am sorry for the sentient beings, that have been unlucky enough to belong to you.

But I will address Brent, let’s do some “English”. Humane slaughter is an oxymoron; it is not possible.

And, if you don’t understand what I am saying Brent, I will clarify:

Humane – having or showing compassion or benevolence

Slaughter – the killing of a large number of animals or humans in a cruel and violent way

If you don’t believe me, open a dictionary.

Marjorie

People who own a horse and have the desire to dispose of it via the slaughter house should NOT even own a horse. I just love these self professed pro slaughter people who jump on the bandwagon because somebody told them to. From the posts that I’ve read, it seems that the anti slaughter people have their facts in order and the pro slaughter factor is going on what Uncle Joe told them. First off, it doesn’t take a minimum of $20,000 to own a horse and it isn’t that expensive to have one put down so there is no compelling evidence to support the fact that horses should be sent to a slaughter house. When they get old or are infirmed and their quality of life is no longer existant, they should be humanely euthanized and the owner has the obligation to foot the bill. I’ve had to deal with that and I wasn’t making much money but out of the love and respect for my own horse, I had her put down. Secondly, the majority of the horses send down the slaughter trail are NOT old, infirmed, or crazy/untrainable. I blame the so-called owners for the crazy or untrainable ones anyway. Manhandling any animal generally ends up with negative results people.. better go back to school. The fact is, young, healthy horses are ending up at slaughter for meat for foreigners to eat because they bring in a price. The bottom line to the horse slaughter industry debate is GREED. If a person cannot or does not want to feed a horse that they no longer use, then sell it to somebody who WILL care for it or donate it to a shelter. Breeders need to quit mass producing because their stock ends up in the kill pens, owners need to go back to animal husbandry 101 and learn the proper way to take care of their animals. A bowed tendon on my own horse was caught early and taken care of. There is no sign of this injury any longer.. and it only cost me $15 (yes, $15 dollars for some medicine that took it down)! Come on, stop being so ignorant and start taking care of your horse(s) the way they are supposed to be cared for. Horses are more in the category of pets/companion animals, not food stock. All of you pro slaughter bandwagoneers need to go back and research what this issue is all about and reconsider your stance on it. I side with the anti slaughter side and I HAVE done my research!

amona Foxworth in Texas | 11/3/2006, 10:44 pm EST

To homegrowncat –YOU DID NOT USE YOUR REAL NAME?????? WHY ?? If you are so upbeat & so darn proud of selling your horses to killers then why not own up to it?…. Where is your honesty? …..??????Ramona Foxworth
____________

Ramona. ..the reason taht I do not use my real name is because a simpy google or yahoo search will turn up my email address and since I use my email for business, I cannot afford to have it clogged with spam sent from people who think I’m the scum of the earth.

You know, it’s funny…I’ve been called haeartless, scum, morals of a rock etc. But yet I have never singled out a single person. I’ve singled out groups of people and generalized, but not any one person. I guess it just goes to show that there is no having an genuine debate with people that are so “rightous” they do not even listen to arugments and instead run someone down with slander on their person…real mature of y’all.

Let’s be blunt…the anti-slaughter side will never acknoledge the evidence to back up the pro-processing folks.

Likewise, the pro-processing people think the anti-slaughter people are a bunch of wackos that don’t listen to reason.

But, if you look at teh recent vote in the House, http://clerk.house.gov/evs/200 6/roll433.xml,
The vote did not break down along party lines…it broke down along rura/urban lines.

I raise cattle…I’ve had a swine feeding operation that was contracted out to various companies. I do not want people from an suburban/urban area telling me what they think is best for farm animals. I’m the one that raises them, treats their sickness, pulls calves in the dead of night because a heifer is having problems. I’m assit rich, but cash poor (the story of ag) and it I can make a few hundred bucks by sending a horse to a slaughter processing plant instead of haivng it put down, then I will.

These are my horses and my responability…don’t go away mad, just go away and let me do with them as I see fit.

To homegrowncat:

As I said, you have the morals and compassion of a rock. You don’t even see how wrong you are. And if you need me to single out a group, I will single out all men and women who send their horses to slaughter.

You use these animals to /work/ for you and then you discard them as if they were an old sweater. They are sentient beings!

I’ve been around horses all of my life. They are not livestock, they are our companions and workers! Would you send your seeing eye dog to slaughter? What’s the difference?

You think you are so tough; well, our New York City Police are very “tough” too and they consider their horses their partners.

Shame on you!

Marjorie

Dear Marjorie,

Interesting you are from NYC. So your horses, did you use them for show? English Riding? Hunter/jumper events? All for pleasure?

Have you ever rided pasture on a horse? Of used it to herd and sort cattle?

We come from very different backgrounds. You appear to be from NYC and I am from Kansas (please no Kansas jokes as they are quite cliche) Yes, I do use my animals for work…and I love and enjoy my horses more so then my cattle or dogs.

But, i still recongize them as the animals they are.

To homegrowncat:

I ride both Western and English, but I’m not quite sure how I ride has anything to do with this. Whether the horse is used for show or work, it’s still a horse and that horse feels fear and pain.

Why don’t you get to know your horses and reciprocate the friendship that they have shown you throughout their lives, instead of condemning them to a horrific death?

If you cannot monetarily afford to give them a peaceful end to their lives, then you shouldn’t own horses.

I’ll mention the NYPD again. They retire their horses to a farm upstate where they are checked on to make certain they are well taken care of. Perhaps a rescue organization would take your “used up” horses from you, if you would take the time to call.

I personally knew a ranch owner who had over 100 horses, and he either retired those who worked for him on his property or he sent them to a farm in Maryland. At the Maryland farm, these horses were cared for by slow children. The agreement was that those horses died on the Maryland farm. This man was honorable and also made a very good living; he knew that he owed the horses that worked for him.

Again, instead of arguing with us, why not try what I suggested. Horses are not stupid, they can be quite smart, given the chance.

Marjorie

Marjorie

I was curious what you rode because I was curious how you use your horses that’s all.

I put more trust and faith into my horses then i do most people. When riding rocky slopes, across cricks, and when i’ve taken a turn around teh horn with a grumpy old cow at the end of my rope, I have to trust that my horse is sure footed.

In return, my horses trust that I will give them proper food, water, shelter, and care.

You brought up the NYPD and donating my horses…but I am curios, have any members of the NYPD or people who donate their horses watched a horse die? I had an old mare, I can’t descride what that horse meant without getting a little teary eyed, but she decided to die. I shoved food donw her, had some of the best vet care but yet, she jsut wasted away to skin and bones before we finally took a little walk and I put her down.

Now I am all for donating horses, they do do great things for slow kids, and I beleive Walter Reed hospital has a program that allows wounded soliders to use them for therapy.

But while those are all great alternatives, there are only so many slots that can be used. You mention the farm in Maryland and that he has 100 horses…can he handle 101 horses? Or 150?

What about the resuce organizations that are full and have waiting lsit? Are horses going to be allowed to waste away while they wait to be adopted?

Processing of meat is not a pretty business, but it is a quick death. And I would rather send my horses to a quick death them have them waste away waiting for a slot that may never come.

the biggest thing that urks me about this argument is that I have people that do not know me, do not know my operation trying to tell me what is best for my horses.

If you want to donate your horses to a rescue place and they have open slots, fine. If you want to take them to the back 40, fine. None of that affects me. However, if i choose to sale my horses, knowing that they will probably end up in a slaughter plant, I take great exception with people telling me what I can or cannot do with my property.

homegrowncat:

You misunderstand me. I am not against euthanasia at all. I euthanized two of my dogs; I would not allow them to suffer.

If your horse is suffering, by all means, call your vet and have your horse put down – humanely -. The key there is humanely. You are misinformed about “slaughter” beinbg a quick death. Please go to: http://www.saplonline.org/horses/htm

Perhaps you care more about your horses than I thought and perhaps you will see the truth if you watch the video on that site.

I apologize for the short answer, I am running out now, but will bbl.

Marjorie

What we keep coming back to with homegrowncat is the concept of private property rights. This Kansan understandably feels that when someone buys or breeds an animal, “it” is by law his property, therefore his responsibility to make decisions for “it,” including how “it” will serve out “its” life and how “it” will die.
The trouble with that argument, as it applies to animals, is that society would never progress and become ever-more humane if we were to apply this logic to any and all treatment of animals. The reason we have laws against animal abuse is because, even though animals are technically a human’s property, they have the “right” not to be subject to pain for our gratuitous pleasure. Most people don’t call killing animals for food a form of sadistic pleasure, so they deem whatever happens to food animals to be not cruel. Whereas if they same treatment were given to non-food animals, or outside the institutionalized setting, it would automatically be cited as cruelty.
Since we don’t eat our horses, and we don’t want them treated in the way “our” food animals are treated, we call whatever happens to them on their way to becoming meat cruel. And not just because we suddenly decided it’s cruel. But because it’s been cruel all along, but it’s been hidden from our sight and our knowledge. Now the secret is “out,” and we’re saying, “We as a society don’t want this, just as we don’t want our dogs in the food chain. So you, Mr. Private Citizen, have no right to treat your private-property horse as a food animal is treated, just as you have no right to treat your private-property dog as a food animal. They are one and the same to society.”
But, homegrowncat, even if the American public HAD known about horse slaughter through the years, society would still have a right to keep redefining what it deems to be cruel. Indeed, we do that all the time, because we are growing ever more enlightened and kind (though it doesn’t always seem that way).
And as society keeps raising its standards of ethics, which includes compassion for defenseless animals, there are ALWAYS traditionalists who are naturally reluctant to give up their tried and true practices. They fight like crazy just to retain their “right” to do things the good-ole way instead of a better, kinder way.
I think traditionalists hold on to “the old” instead of accepting “the new” not so much because the old is good or makes sense or is justified in any way, but rather because it belongs to THEM. It’s a pride of possession kinda thing. In a word, it’s EGO, which is always self-assertive instead of conscious of the feelings of others.
True, no one likes to be told how to think, what to do, or, heaven help us, that they are WRONG. But we ALL have to amend our thinking and our ways at various points in our lives. Whether we are ordered to stop doing something or we stop of our own accord — well, that’s up to us. But new laws are constantly being written to keep up with our expanded consciousness of what’s right and wrong. And now that horse slaughter — America’s dirty little secret — has been discovered, the vast majority of people (including the vast majority of horse owners) know in their hearts that it is wrong. Know that there are kinder, saner alternatives. Know that horses are slaughtered not because it’s good for them, but because an industry that has a voracious appetite for MONEY and a totally uncaring attitude toward its “product” (our intelligent, beloved horses) is sucking our friends into its bottomless pit.
In these Rolling Stone posts, we’ve read, from people who have been there up close and personal, many examples of what goes on in the seamy world of horse slaughter. Their stories prove that the entire sequence of events is LONG-TERM agony for a horse — just as bad as starving. To be an innocent, friendly, hard-working horse, a partner to man, and yet to suddenly find onself unable to escape from a hell-hole of a feedlot or a sardine-packed double-decker, to be unable to get to the hay, to be injured by other horses, to be drowning in feces and mud, to be deprived of water — well, all of that is considered flagrant animal abuse in any other context, as we’ve seen on the Animal Cops shows on Animal Planet.
Despite all that physical torture, the pain that would be most unbearable to me, if I were the horse, would be the emotional devastation. I’d be wondering, in effect, “What did I do to deserve this? I’ve been a good, obedient, sweet horse. I’ve done everything I’ve been asked. I’ve given my whole heart to this man. Why isn’t he caring for me enough to give me a gentle end in his arms?”
And if by now you (homegrowncat) are saying that I’m anthromorphizing a horse, you are wrong. You and I already know by being around horses that they have deep feelings. Those feelings don’t suddenly turn off like a spigot, any more than yours would. You choose to keep your heart cold on this subject because you feel you’re being told what to do, and that makes you defensive. Well, why not turn all that defensiveness into defending your horses — and all horses — from a prolonged cruel and painful and lonely end? You could be a hero to all horses, a hero to all true horse lovers, and a real reformer among the farm-and-ranch crowd, many of whom have not yet chose to awaken from their slumber to see the light of day. In the light of day, horse slaughter is unjust, unmerciful, unprincipled. It’s a betrayal of friendship, a breach of trust, and unlike everything our Creator made us to be. Please join the anti-cruelty crowd and be our hero and our angel. We and the horses need someone eloquent and forceful like you in our camp. Please think about it, okay? Thanks, pard’ner. (PS: I’m not being sarcastic or facetious. I’m 100% sincere.) ~ Olivia

Marjorie,

I woukld like to give you a thank you…while you have not changed my mind, I feel we have started to get into an actual civil debate while keeping our emotions somewhat in check.

I was raised never to let an animal go to waste…always use as much of it as you can. When hunting, don’t kill moe then you can clean and store. When fishing, only take what you can clean and store and release the rest.

In the vast ruralness that I live in there are 2 factors that I have against me when dealing with euthanizing an animal.

First, the lack of vets. We do not have small animal or large animal vets. They tend to be more general and do both. However, because of the lack, they take emergency calls first and foremost. Almost every call turns out to be an emergency call. So if you have a wounded animal or one that needs to be euthanized, more often then not they will tell you to do it yourself because they are spread too thin. I have had to put down several of my dogs because they got hit by traffic. I’ve also had to put down horses that have broken their legs and cows that had various health problems.

This leads me to my second point. I used a good ol’bullet to put my animals down…and they could then be renered into usable products (except the dogs…I have a puppy graveyard complete with markers). This goes back to my thinking that nothing should be wasted. If a vet uses sodium pentobarital to put an animal down, rendering plants cannont take that animal and I’m stuck either burying it in a hole or burning it. Either way, the body of that animal goes to waste. Sending my animals to slaughter assures me that mcuh of the animal will be used.

Hey Olivia…if these animals are not “my property” then how come if I neglect them, then I can get tagged with animal neglect chagneres? Or if they get out and get hit by a car, they car owners insuracne will come after me because my “property” caused the wreck?

You talk about people who have been up close and personal to horses before slaughter. Well I have friends who own locker plant. I’ve helped them out when they becaome so busy they ran behind schedule. I ran the captive bolt gun…it doesn’t get more up close and personal then that. I’ve also toured processing plants. The captive bolt effectivly makes teh animal brain dead, period.

When you have seen an animal shaking as it is shackled and hoisted…that is just the quiver that all living things do right before they die. Horses do it, cattle do it, chickens do it…and when we meet our demise, we also will do it. But the animals is dead, you are just seeing the final twitches of the muscles.

Now as far as you telling me my reason and thinking is wrong…I’m willing to bet that we would disagree on 99% of what comes out of the others mouth. So maybe it’s your thinking that is worng.

for those people who claim that horses are not raised for meat…please consider the Bashkir and Yili breeds. They are both breeds of horses that are raised for meat and milk in thier respective parts of the world.

To homegrowncat:

As for the first comment in your next-to-last post: Because your horses are your property, you and you alone are charged with their welfare. Your responsibility is to see that they’re never treated inhumanely. And, based on the definitions of humane and slaughter cited below, the two are not compatible. We’ve heard the two words spoken in the same breath for so long that it’s possible to be brainwashed into believing that horse slaughter is humane. Especially when it receives the sorry AVMA’s stamp of approval. And even more especially when we seek to justify our actions so that hot guilt doesn’t creep in and thaw our frozen-by-cultural-tradition heart. (When one’s friends all do the same thing, it’s hard to break out of the mold and question whether a particular practice is right — or not.)

As to the last comment in that same post: Putting oneself in the shoes (or hoofs) of someone else, identifying with them in a sympathetic way, even when they are deemed to be your “property,” could NEVER be “wrong thinking.” Is following the Golden Rule wrong thinking? Why shouldn’t that rule be applicable to the species called horse (okay, Equus), whose members are closest to man in terms of what they do for man and how they closely they interact and bond with man?

What your conscience can live with is your business, homegrowncat. But what you do to any individual member of a species that American society today deems a companion animal — well, that’s everyone’s business. If it weren’t, there would be no such thing as humane societies or animal welfare laws that strengthen to keep up with our increasing knowledge of animals and improving ethics toward animals. Despite a few blips and bumps and backtracks, we’re continually making progress in our morality and in our laws that express our morality.

Why don’t we all challenge ourselves to think higher and feel deeper and do better in our lives? Why be content with thinking the same old thoughts — thoughts that don’t advance civilization? Staying stuck in the mud of cold conventionality is just like being stuck in the mud that those feedlot horses had to endure, and die in (see long post below by the woman who worked for three months in a stinkhole/deathtrap of a feedlot).

To me, being ALIVE has less to do with whether one is physically breathing than with whether one is learning to love in an ever more expansive, inclusive, unselfish way. Pure-minded love is what we all need more of. That’s what really blesses everybody, horses and humans alike, and harms no one. Selling out one’s horse for a profit and pretending it is good for the horse blesses no one — especially the perpetrator, in my book.

Again, with complete sincerity and best wishes, Olivia

to homegrowncat and Olivia:

I really cannot more eloquently state what Olivia has already said. I completely agree.

Laws are in place for a reason; we cannot act with impunity where animals are concerned. If we did, we would be going backwards instead of forward.

I will leave you with one last thought: “If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.” St. Francis of Assisi

Slaughter is -not- humane, it is cruel and barbaric. We need to change the laws in this country so that it is banned forever.

Marjorie

STOP, please stop the arguing and look inside yourself to see what is really at stake here – our humanity! Right, the essence of life and the disregard for it that has become too prevalent in our society is in the arena as we debate horse slaughter. We have become a throw away society, indeed. If it doesn’t work, toss it. If it is too much trouble, get rid of it. If it interferes with our lives, lose it. If it is someone that is needy, but annoying, ignore them.

Horses are not something to be tossed aside, forgotten, and slaughtered for human consumption in foreign lands. Horses were the very backbone that built the United States of America. Count the number of statues with horses in our nation’s capitol, as well as, any other historic center. Yes, they were an important part of our history. They need to be protected as dearly as the bald eagle!!!

Willie is 100% correct in all he says about horses! Ever spent time with a horse? If you haven’t you need to. You will find in a horse the very essence of life. You will learn more about relationships, trust, harmony, self-esteem, confidence, unconditional love, partnership, and just plain loving and living.

Horses are smart. They feel. They know who to trust and who to fear. They will grace a deserving human with hugs, kisses, nickers, and a trust that is like the trust our infants and toddlers place in us as parents.

Horses can’t speak for themselves, but they can speak very clearly if you are open to their language. Much of what they have to say is spoken with their eyes. If you know horses, you can easily hear a sick horse saying he/she doesn’t feel well, a happy horse saying thank you, a proud horse saying I did it, and a scared horse saying are you different or are you like the people who abused me.

Remember humanity? Remember humane? Experience a slaughter house killing and ask yourself if that is a just end for a creature who gave so much during this life and whose ancestors help make America.

Stop the slaughter of a companion animal that enlightens human beings each and every day.

I’m a little late getting into this converstaion , but who is this ” Homegrowncat

I’m a little late getting into this converstaion , but who is this ” Homegrowncat ” and why do any of you bother to talk to this person. Homegrowncat will never change , it seems that being cruel to animals makes no difference to this jerk. For those of us that admire, respect and love horses , we need to chat amongest ourselves and stop wasting our time with the ” Homegrowncats” of the world. People like them have no compassion for anything, be it man, woman , child or animals.

Horse processing (or slaughter, as the melodramatically inclined like to call it) is an essential part of the equine industry.

The American public has been bottlefed a wealth of misinformation regarding horse processing, and has also been brainwashed by movies like Hidalgo and My Friend Flicka. The truth of the matter is that there are tens of thousands of horses that are completely unusable, ranging from those that are unsound to those that are an outright danger.

There are myriad laws to ensure the welfare of horses going to processing plants–if the processing option is taken away from horse owners, there are no laws covering how the unwanted horses are instead treated.

The AVMA recognizes three methods of humanely ‘putting a horse down.’ One is by veterinary administered injection, which is costly in itself and does not include the cost carcass disposal. The second is a bullet to the head, and the third is the captive bolt gun utilized in processing plants, which does the same thing a bullet does. Death is instantaneous. The sensationalist videos on the anti-processing websites show the horse moving after the bolt gun is used–that is simply the post-mortem muscle spasms that always occur. The ‘research’ done by the anti-processing faction is therefore laughable and shows ignorance of animal agriculture in general. It appears that the ‘research’ has been gathered from sources that are already ‘preaching to the choir.

I am a horse breeder and trainer, but most of all a horse lover. I also enjoy my private property rights.

The AAEP and AVMA oppose this bill, as well as countless other livestock groups. Our motivation comes not from greed, but the desire for a humane and practical end to the animals that we love.

I have sent numerous horses to the processing plant because I know that they will die humanely. I am blessed to live in a rural area, and should this ridiculous bill pass, I will be able to shoot the horses that would otherwise be processed–a humane end for them but a tragic waste of a usable, valuable resource.

I will gladly pass along a photo of all the dead horses that this asinine movement professes to save.

Another thought…why is it acceptable to kill hundreds of thousands of cats and dogs that are no longer wanted, but not to do the same with horses? Cats and dogs are pets, but it is recognized that there simply are not homes for all of them. It is the same with horses, except that owning a horse is not remotely feasible for the majority of the population. THERE IS NOWHERE FOR UNWANTED HORSES TO GO–nor is there room in America’s landfills for the millions of pounds of additional contaminated waste that will be produced if horses can no longer be processed.

A few points about processing:

Processing allows a practical, nutritious food product to be produced for other countries, as well as for a great number of impoverished Native Americans in the United States.

Processing is also the main source of equine cadavers for veterinary research, allowing veterinary care for our hooved companions to be constantly improving.

Processing also provides the equine pericardia used in human heart operations–in other words,it saves human lives.

Processing also produces high-quality, federally regulated meats for zoos.

I agree that the horse is an amazing, intuitive, beautiful animal. But I also know that processing is a humane and practical end for an unwanted horse. The two concepts do not contradict one another.

To all of those who have their heads in the clouds and are assaulting the processing industry like Don Quixote attacked a windmill–look where the real problem is for a change. There are already far too many mustangs stagnating in tax-funded cesspools (aka holding facilities)–if you want to worry about where your tax money is being spent, look at some real problems instead of intruding into the lives and businesses of those of us who are actually involved in the horse industry and are not armchair crusaders.

What will happen to this country when we allow our elected officials to impose legislation on our lives and our businesses that are based solely on emotions, rather than facts and common sense? Horse processing is a HUMANE and ECONOMICAL method of disposing injured or unwanted horses. Until someone comes up with a better plan to prevent the abandonment, abuse, starvation and economic impact of unwanted horses, horse processing will remain a neccessity for responsible livestock owners, including the farmers and ranchers who depend upon horses daily. It is frightening to think the Horse Slaughter Prevention Act has made it this far, based on the emotional heart strings of those who refuse to see the issue logically.

I agree with everything that coppermountaincowgirl said, although the language was a bit inflammatory. But anti-slaughter supporters must realize that the language used in their materials is also highly inflammatory to those of us who see slaughter as a HUMANE and practical choice.

We cannot allow people’s emotions and diet preferences to dictate what will become of a vital aspect of the horse industry. There is so much misinformation out there that it is hard to see through to the truth of the matter.

***Slaughtering a horse is no more cruel or morally reprehensible than slaughtering a cow or pig or chicken.***

I recently sent a horse to be slaughtered, and in visiting with the buyer, discovered that they were fined over $4,000 for a horse that arrived at the plant with a small scratch that was bleeding. Law requires that the horses are fed and watered at regular intervals. There are a number of laws in place such as the above mentioned to make sure that horses are treated in the most humane manner possible on the way to and after arriving at the plant–if this were not the case I would NEVER have sold my old horse to slaughter. After researching the matter, I found that the cost of euthanasia and carcass disposal in my area is prohibitive, and where I live, I can’t just shoot a horse. People have got to realize that more horses will suffer if the processing option is stolen from horse owners.

Just curious…how many of the anti-slaughter people that have posted could actually take in and care for an unwanted horse themselves? I doubt very many could–much less the THOUSANDS of unwanted horses that will have nowhere to go if the bill passes. Tiny suburban lawns just won’t cut it, people. I know that the anti-slaughter people mean well, but the information they are basing their opinions on is mostly untrue. They are relying on organizations to save these horses, but they have nothing vested in the issue (other than emotions), and just so they can sleep better at night they are campaigning against a legitimately important industry that does a great deal of good for horse and human kind alike. Why isn’t Willie Nelson volunteering to take in some of these unwanted horses????!?!?

Horse Meat is Likely Unsafe

I want to draw your attention to a subject that the USDA, the AVMA and the horse slaughterhouses don’t want to talk about but should be a HUGE issue with slaughtering our US horses — horse meat is likely unsafe for human consumption!

As cattle, swine, and poultry farmers are aware, their livestock is heavily regulated as to what drugs/medicines they may be given. In the United States, no horse is raised for human consumption. Americans do not eat horses and do not medicate them as such. Horses are routinely given Phenylbutazone or “bute” (the aspirin of the horse world) and many other medications that clearly state “Not for use in animals intended for human consumption”.

The USDA has banned Phenylbutazone at any concentration (ZERO tolerance) in meat, milk, or eggs intended for human consumption. Furthermore, there is NO known withdrawal period!

I challenge the foreign horse slaughter houses to prove that US horse meat is not tainted. Slaughter horses are acquired from many locations, not in one herd from a know seller like cattle are, so EVERY horse would have to be tested to prove negative for these medications. This is NOT being done!

I would also challenge the horse associations that are pro-horse slaughter to consider this drug issue. If they had to give up these important horse medicines, jeopardizing our healthy US horse population to comply with safe meat standards for foreign countries alone, how quickly would they change their stance? In an instant! Or perhaps they would like to put in place a “passport” system to ensure no tainted horse meat gets into the food chain, like Great Britain (a country which also is overwhelmingly anti-horse slaughter) has had to recently? I’m sure they would not be complaining about the cost of humane euthanasia by a veterinarian vs. the cost of that program.

This issue cannot be denied. Either horses should be raised as food animals to support the 1% of the US horse population that are sent to slaughter OR their meat cannot be approved as safe for human consumption. It is one or the other – but not both.

-Lori Hackman
(20 miles from Cavel International horse slaughterhouse. Illinois is one of the only two states in the nation to have a horse slaughterhouse.)

IdahoBlue, coppermountaincowgirl and NVGirl:

Willie Nelson is no “armchair crusader.” He just adopted eleven supposedly “unwanted” slaughter-bound horses. They are now munching hay on his Texas ranch.

If you three ladies had been living on a cotton plantation in the South in 1860, would you have told outspoken abolitionist William Lloyd Garrison that he should stop being “emotional,” get out of his “armchair” and go “crusade” for something other than an end to slavery? He was an outsider–a Northerner-so he had no right to butt into the slave business and take away the owners’ comfortable way of life, right?

Or if you were a male head of household in the same era, would you have argued that Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B. Anthony should stay in the kitchen instead of battling for women’s right to vote?

Or if you happened to live in China right now and you saw a fellow pedestrian’s dog grabbed by stick-wielding police and beaten to death in front of everyone (a quick, painless death, right?), would you have agreed with the authorities’ effort to eradicate rabies before one more human was killed? (Many of the dogs had gotten a rabies shot, and their owners had proof, but no policeman checked, or cared.)

Just how do you think social and economic reform happens?

It comes about because courageous, clear-thinking, intelligent, ethical people who care about something besides their own hides realize that they CAN and MUST stand up to hide-bound conservatives and entrenched traditionalists who refuse to change their habits–habits that perhaps were once accepted fact but are no longer tolerable according to current standards of right and wrong.

Reform, in the case of horse slaughter, happens when enough horse lovers with a conscience band together to establish a new law–namely, a law that prevents anyone in America from traitorously throwing away an equine ally for a paltry few bucks from a meat buyer, as if the horse were bred to be a fast cow or a tall, thin pig.

It comes about when horse lovers get fed up with using horse slaughter (which you euphemistically call “processing”) as an escape hatch for irresponsible overbreeding.

It comes about when horse lovers who respect their horses enough to give them a decent home (new or existing) or a decent end dare to defy such hypocritical, self-justifying nonsense as “too many unwanted horses” and “wise use of resources,” both of which are lame excuses for greedy butchery of a trusting, trustworthy companion.

Last weekend, I met two women at opposite ends of the horse-slaughter issue.

One, a woman in her 50s, has a gorgeous ranch, where she boards and trains horses and gives riding lessons. She now wants to turn her acres of pastures, ponds, and barns into a haven for old horses. She is determined to do something to ensure that your “unwanted” horses don’t have to suffer the terrifying fate that you insist is “humane.”

The other is a teen cowgirl, who has already been brainwashed to believe that it’s just fine to sell a barrel horse to a killer buyer if the horse doesn’t “try hard enough” for her. (She also expected her friend, whose house she was visiting, to wait on her hand and foot.) Such a cold, callous heart in such a selfish, spoiled girl who had tragically been desensitized by adult “role models” and peers in the world of rodeo. She refused to look into my eyes, because the truth — that she had lost her moral bearings — was too hard for her to admit. To cover her guilt, she chattered mindlessly about how much money she makes from rodeoing. Her friend countered, “You do not earn money. Tell the truth.” The other friend asked her if she had ever given a treat to her horse when he hadn’t earned it — just to show him affection. Predictably, she hadn’t. Yes, all of us in the room either own horses or volunteer at a horse rescue.

In her book Reason for Hope, Jane Goodall tells of her disgust at seeing a fox mauled by dogs in her first-ever (and last-ever!) foxhunt when she was a teen. She writes: “What if I hadn’t seen the fox at all? Would I have wanted to go again? What if we had lived in the country, and had horses of our own, and I had been expected to go hunting from an early age? Would I have grown up accepting that this was the thing to do? Would I have hunted foxes again and again, and watched dispassionately their suffering, ‘all pity choked by custom of fell deed’? [Note: In this quotation, taken from an old English verse, "fell" means cruel, barbaric, inhumane.] Is this how it happens? We do what our friends do in order to be one of the group, to be accepted? Of course there are always some strong-minded individuals who have the courage of their convictions, who stand out against the group’s accepted norms of behavior. But it is probably the case that inappropriate or morally wrong behaviors are more often changed by the influence of outsiders, looking with different eyes, from different backgrounds.”

Interestingly, horse slaughter is considered, by upwards of 70% of Americans, to be such a blatant breach of ethics (you could say it breaches an unwritten contract with one’s partner, the horse) that those who oppose it include both outsiders and insiders. The vast majority of horse owners–those who put their horses to sleep or let them die a natural death of old age–are proponents of this bill, including many members of the AQHA, the AVMA and the AAEP!

Well, folks, we’re pretty much at a standoff, aren’t we? Neither side is going to convince the other to switch “parties”–especially on Election Eve

When the horse slaughter ban passes (and it will, one day), will all you pro-slaughter cowboys and cowgirls help us set up some new and expanded adoption centers and sanctuaries for Quarter Horses, please? We’re going to need your brains, your brawn, your bucks–and, yes, even your hidden heart for saving horses.

Still sincere and still smiling,

Olivia

Oops, I just thought of a couple more comments to direct to coppermountaincowgirl:

(1) Would you still call it “melodrama” if it was your stolen horse in the knockbox? Or would that be no big deal? Just asking.

(2) You say you’re a breeder and trainer but “most of all a horse lover.” I can’t conceive of advocating the butchering (not even the “processing”) of a species of animal I love. Nor can I imagine valuing property rights more than a horse’s life.

By the same logic, do people who own short-haired dogs but advocate skinning alive long-haired dogs for their fur (they do that in China) love dogs? Should they pit the property rights of the dog breeder against the dogs’ right not to be tortured to death?

I have a friend who is convinced he loves animals. (For the record, every job he’s had has been with animals, in one setting or another.) When he worked at a dog pound, he had no qualms about calling in sick when he was well, even though he knew it meant that the short-staffed crew would NOT be able to feed and water all the dogs. And when he worked on those same short-staffed shifts (other employees had called in sick), he didn’t work any faster in an attempt to feed dogs in rows that weren’t his responsibility. He was more concerned about being an overworked employee than about making sure the dogs didn’t go to sleep hungry.

I think “love” is a cheap word. Its depth — or lack thereof — can be proved only when every other motive is stripped away, and there remains only one incentive: the unstoppable desire to spare any and every innocent, defenseless friend from any and every form of harm.

As always,
Olivia

To Homegrowncat I have read your comments and I believe you have spoke the words slaughter is a quick and painless death so many times that you almost have yourself believing it. Have to gone to the websit savedahorse.com Please do so please take a look at the videos there and see what takes place in them slaughter houses. If you can watch that and still feel the same way. Please don’t come back with the comments that people are calling names, the truth becomes known. Any body that knows a horse and I mean really knows a horse will know right of way that slaughter is not and will not be or is a humane death. Horse are smarter than you think they have a very keen since of smell they know fear and what do they do ???? they try to run to get away from it they shy away from the bolt gun comming towards their heads they smell the other horses blood they sents each others fears and they are there with no where to go and in the hands of the killer, man who taught them to trust. Oh yeah this is so humane this is just the way I want to go.

To Olivia–You are obviously very passionate in your views, which I can appreciate since I am similarly passionate in my beliefs. I do not think that any of our minds will change, but in the spirit of a lively debate, I am compelled to respond.

May I ask where you received your doctorate in veterinary medicine, and if you haven’t, why you think that the highly emotional opinions of the anti-slaughter groups are more qualified to determine the definition of “humane” than educated LICENSED DOCTORS OF VETERINARY MEDICINE?!?!?!?!? (Whom, I might add, have nothing to gain financially from horse slaughter, so obviously the repeated accusation of greed has no place here.)

Speaking of greed…the market price for horses right now is between 10 cents and 34 cents per pound (according to the last report I read). With the price of fuel these days, sending a horse to slaughter hardly pays for the trip to the sale. Greed? I think not.

Another point–Willie Nelson IS hardly more than an ‘armchair crusader.’ He has the celebrity to promote his views, indeed, but his adoption of 11 unwanted horses is not even a drop in the bucket, just a mere token effort. Where will the other THOUSANDS of unwanted horses go? Perhaps between smoking joints and evading income taxes he can adopt the other 99,989.

Also, I noticed that the question of how many anti-slaughter people could or would actually take in unwanted horses was conveniently glossed over. Hmmmm, interesting.

Really, to ALL of you that have posted opinions against slaughtering horses, how many of you can take some of them in?? Very few I would wager. Funny, you don’t want to personally assume the cost of caring for a horse, but you expect someone else to. All blow and no show, I would say.

In previous arguments, the anti-slaughter people have expressed that they are somehow higher, more enlightened human beings because of their opinions. Interesting that they consider themselves as such, since the Bible itself warns against worshipping false idols, and against the dangers of placing equal value on animal and human life.

ALSO…Do not pigeonhole we ‘pro-processing/slaughter’ people all as spoiled rodeo brats. Do not use the terms ‘cowboy’ and ‘cowgirl’ in a derogatory way–ways of making a living are not directly related to position on the horse slaughter issue.

And, finally, how dare you have the outright, ridiculous nerve to ask us for help ‘rescuing’ these horses? That is like burning a house down and then asking the inhabitants to help rebuild it in a way that arsonists see fit. It reminds me of the theatrics of PETA…setting minks, chickens, hogs, whatever ‘free’ to live a ‘wonderful liberated life’, only for the majority of them to perish without the care they were accustomed to. Think about it, people.

If you really want to SAVE horses, go to the sales, BUY those horses. Their lives will not be saved by this bill, only made worse–instead of a quick, painless death (again, I emphasize that the veterinary medical associations consider the captive bolt gun to be humane), they will face longer years of suffering.

So God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them: “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand. (Genesis 9:1-2)

To Idahoblue:

You state: “Really, to ALL of you that have posted opinions against slaughtering horses, how many of you can take some of them in?? Very few I would wager. Funny, you don’t want to personally assume the cost of caring for a horse, but you expect someone else to. All blow and no show, I would say.”

Funnily enough, I don’t have any horses /working/ for me so why are you telling me to take in /your/ worked to death horses? Isn’t that /your/ responsiblity? If you have a horse working for you, it is your responsibility to /humanely/ euthanize the animal or even better yet, retire it and give it at least a couple of years of thanks for all it’s work for you.

Sheeesh – why don’t you grow a heart.

I really feel like you just jumped in this conversation without reading the other posts.

Slaughter is not humane and it has been documented as inhumane by many many veterinarians.

You truly need to educate yourself, instead of sitting back and thinking you can just ship your horses off to slaughter with no feeling of guilt at all, after you have used them up. They are sentient beings.

Shame on you.

And, if you want to bring God into the picture, then I leave you with this: “If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.” St. Francis of Assisi

My haven’t we gotten spirited in this discussion! Not much time, but I just want to say to Olivia that I feel truly sorry for anyone whose horse is stolen and sold for slaughter. Stealing horses was once a hanging offense.

But, thankfully, I live in one of the great western states where people still brand their horses (gasp!!) and horses cannot be sold to slaughter or otherwise without a brand inspection for proof of ownership. I guess that the ‘barbaric’ practice of branding animals is not so bad after all.

To Marjorie–

FYI,I have read all of the posts.

I am not asking anyone to take in MY horses, and spare me your sanctimony.

I am posing a general question–how many people that have posted against horse processing/slaughter can actually take in any unwanted horses?–which obviously no one cares to answer in the spirit which it was intended because it cuts too close to the truth–so many of you railing against horse processing cannot put your money where your mouth is.

And do not even imagine that you can come close to knowing the way that I love and care for my horses. In my lifetime I have owned a number of horses, most of which have been retired and lived out their days comfortably, bellies full with plenty of affection.

I mentioned the Bible and God simply because there had been quotes from other books, etc, and the Bible is THE book–I thought it offered some interesting perspective.

Referring to the quote you used, I certainly think that an instantaneous death is far more compassionate than languishing in some trashy ‘rescue’ facility while the Hidalgo-groupies move on to their next pet project.

If slaughter is banned, you may sleep better at night, but those thousands and thousands of horses that are unwanted will still have nowhere to go.

Hey, IdahoBlue,

All the anti-horse slaughter people I know DO adopt and rescue and sponsor and foster horses. We also donate money and time. We go to livestock auctions. We train and rehabilitate horses. The only thing we do NOT do is breed MORE horses.

One person I know very well gave a sizable portion of a small savings account to a horse rescuer so she could buy a second-hand barn for the horses needing extra care. Another friend, a single woman with an average full-time job, rescued a scruffy feedlot filly who became a raving beauty. She’s also sponsoring two horses from the recent Cavel-destined trailer wreck. This along with having five horses already, BEFORE she learned of slaughter. A third friend gave up her career early so she could work to end slaughter; she has also adopted several “unwanteds.” And I haven’t even gotten to the PMU rescuers, the racehorse rescuers, the wild-horse-and burro rescuers, and the blind-horse rescuers. Armchair crusaders all, indeed.

To be fair, I’ve met a few bad apples, too. But rotten ones show up in every bushel.

I truly didn’t mean to use the terms “cowgirl” and “cowboy” in a demeaning way, IdahoBlue. My apologies if it came off sounding that way.

When I spoke of the rodeo, I gave a specific example of a teen who I said must’ve been educated into that brutal way of (non)thinking by adults and peers around her. How else would a young girl dream up the demented notion that horses are made to be thrown away if they don’t perform up to her expectations?

I don’t see greed as necessarily having high dollar figures. Greed, to me, means dodging doing the right thing. Greed especially avoids PAYING (in money or in time) to do the right thing.

About the Bible: Treating horses with kindness doesn’t mean they are identical to humans. In fact, because they are considered a lower species, not as “complete” an expression of our creator as man (the man who lives up to his true nature, that is), it’s our privilege and obligation to protect them, as the book of Proverbs makes clear: “A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.”

Speaking of doctors of veterinary medicine, my vet, who is a good ole cowboy, a rodeo fan, and a Texas A&M vet school grad, eagerly signed a nation-wide veterinarians’ letter supporting the bill. An owner of five beautiful horses (one rescued), my vet says he can’t bear the thought of slaughtering a single horse for any reason. (In a few days, I obtained the signatures of 25 other vets, the majority within 5 miles of my house. Those who declined were wary of mixing politics with their practice. Most said they sympathized with my mission, though. Yup, some have an equine-only practice.)

I don’t even want to speculate as to why the AVMA, which professes to be looking out for animals, sides with the ag industry on this and other issues. I don’t suppose it has anything to do with its close relationships with those deep-pocketed meat, poultry, milk and egg and pharma mega-corporations. As far as I can tell, AVMA leaders are no more than puppets.

Gracious sakes, I don’t need a degree of ANY kind to know what humane looks like. Leo Tolstoy, who gave up his prominent position and wealth to live very simply in his later years, also knows: “Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised” (Anna Karenina). And not to get too Biblical on you, but Jesus, who didn’t need a doctorate to accomplish his saving works, was a prime example of going up against the powers-that-be, the educated scribes and Pharisees who were convinced they knew it all. He knew more.

You’re right, IdahoBlue, this is a lively debate alright. The liveliest part is the analogy of burning down a house then asking the inhabitants to help the arsonists rebuilt it to suit the arsonists’ specs. That really struck my funny bone — and I don’t mean that sarcastically, I promise.

Come to think of it, we ARE trying to burn down a house. It’s more like a crack house, which neighbors revile, but which addicts are comfortable hanging out in. We’re saying, in effect: Slaughter-addicts gotta kick that habit they’re hooked on, ‘cuz it’s hurting the horses they’re responsible for (for bringing into being and for safeguarding) and it’s against what this country stands for. We should all come together and lay a strong foundation and a new structure for all American horses, one that’s built on the rock of loyalty and sacrifice instead of the sand of betrayal and convenience.

That’s not high-flying rhetoric. That’s sound, practical, not to mention moral policy. We are convinced that when the slaughter spigot dries up, breeders will have no choice but to quit their profligacy. Then we won’t be seeing countless horses on the auction block. The available-for-slaughter “excess” will disappear — poof — just as it evaporated for other reasons in the 1990s (documented in a white paper that shows the year-by-year decline of slaughtered horses by the tens of thousands, with no corresponding pickup in starving horses).

BTW, the neighbors of Dallas Crown in Kaufman have had to live in misery for years with sewer back-up problems, a foul stench, the screams of horses, and the gruesome sight of strewn horse parts on the road. You name it, they’ve had to endure it. So it isn’t just horses who suffer. Humans do, too.

Speaking of whom, I haven’t heard a word of sympathy from “processing” proponents for the devastated owners of stolen-then-promptly-slaughter ed horses.

Who said Willie is finished bringing “unwanted” horses to his ranch? (No matter how many he brings in, he’d be accused of not doing enough.) Maybe he’s starting small and plans to work toward larger numbers. Maybe he wants to give everyone else the extreme pleasure of getting involved in rescue. By now, he knows how rewarding it is.

Closing for now, with words from Willie, who’s the reason we started this debate: “Horses are all the things a truly evolved human should be. . . . Humans abuse their power while horses use theirs only for good.” (And, no, I don’t think that contradicts the Bible.)

Blessings to all the horses, and to the humans who care for them in the best way they know how,
Olivia

Another oops — while I was typing away (and watching the election results) coppermountaincowgirl weighed in with sympathy for the stolen horses and their owners. That’s good. Not that sympathy helps them.

You’re right about branding. And I have no problem with it — especially freeze-branding. Anything to keep a horse safe from rustlers is great! I’m not picky about the cosmetic look.

Good night all,
Olivia
PS: Do you suppose we’re ever going to quit all this back-and-forth? I don’t care for the occasional rancor, but I “get” the frustration on both sides, and I’m really trying to understand everyone’s standpoint, believe it or not…

Thank You IdahoBlue–I agree whole-heartedly with your well worded comments. I too am frustrated that the ‘Pro’ Slaughter camp is likened to Rodeo Brats who, as Olivia put it, must’ve been educated into that brutal way of (non)thinking by adults and peers around her to dream up the demented notion that horses are made to be thrown away if they don’t perform up to her expectations. I too have horses living comfortably in retirement and, believe it or not, my horse ALWAYS gets sugar cubes at the end of the day, whether he deserves them or not (although I don’t see how that relates to the issue at hand).

The question has yet to be answered as to what will happen to the thousands of horses without homes or sanctuaries if horse slaughter is banned? We have established that there are a tremendous number of caring people who have sacrificed to take in unwanted horses. But as I understand it, most rescue facilities are already operating at max capacity. Where will the rest of the horses end up? Has anyone watched an animal slowly starve to death? That is what will happen when unwanted horses are dumped onto public lands already overly populated with unhealthy, starving wild horses.

It is a misconception that horses destined for slaughter are merely the result of over breeding. Limiting breeding will not eliminate the need for humane, economic disposal of livestock which may be injured, suffering, starving or a danger to owners or handlers.

Which brings me to another point which I know isn’t a popular one. Horses are not companion animals. I am in no way saying horses are not excellent companions (better than dogs in many of cases) but they are classified in our country as livestock. The horse industry has worked long and hard to maintain that status. Advantages to being classified as livestock include federal funds for research on equine diseases, favorable tax provisions, animal welfare laws and regulations, zoning restrictions and similar requirements.

If we allow our government to ban horse slaughter because of our emotional connection to horses, how long will it be before someone decides pigs are to smart at eat?

I whole heartedly agree this horror needs to end!!!! I applaud all that have stood tall for the horses.
I write this on the day after our farm was flooded out here in WA, but was blessed to be able to evacuate 5 horses. My emotions are running high I apologize in advance.
However I stood for hours over night though the day much of the time with 5 horses on lead ropes, 2 being 2 year olds 1 coming out of a kill pen months ago other 2 are old rescues 20 plus in ages, 1 an unhandled foster.
I can say with trees crashing in to the roaring river next to us our pastures turning into the river, 3 horses having to swim for their lives following only the sound of my voice and the gallant 20 year old rescue paint that swam in and showed the mares the way out. I am just plain awe struck at the trust, the will to live, the will to help, the absolute heart soul and feelings these animals have for each other and us human friends.
I was hours with these noble creatures who looked to me for leadership even at moments of panic they would pull together look at me and trust would show so clear in they’re eyes. I have no doubt I could have lead them to their deaths, they would have followed.
I cry while I write this as it has been exhausting I pray for those that were not as lucky as I.
I pray for those who have not been lucky enough to have been touched by the soul of a horse, because if they had they surely would stand against this disgusting and embarrassing practice some here in the USA condone.

Gerri

Geraldine,

God Bless you and your human and animal family. I can’t imagine what you went through, but I am glad that you are all safe.

As for some here, they will not believe that slaughter is barbaric and cruel. They simply will not watch the videos or hear what we have to say. Perhaps the truth is simply too much for them to face, since they want the easy way out.

I’ve given up, to be honest. I’ve tried to educate, but you can’t educate those that do not want to learn the truth. Or those that want to continue down the barbaric path.

I believe they want to just go on doing what they are and not have to feel guilty about it. Personally, I don’t know how they sleep at night.

Continued excuses about “where will the animals go”. Well, they won’t go anywhere, because it’s only 1% of the US horse poputlation that gets sent to slaughter. Lots are imported from Canada.

But again, I digress, they won’t listen and learn.

Be well, Geraldine. I send you good wishes for your recovery.

Marjorie

OH wait, NVGirl is afraid that she won’t be able to eat pigs! Now I get it!

Let’s let our horses suffer a cruel, horrific death, so NVGirl can continue to eat pig.

Gotta love the logic, or lack thereof.

Marjorie

Gerri, I join Marjorie (and I’m sure every one else reading these posts) in expressing gratitude for your harrowing escape from the floodwaters. Like Marjorie, I can’t imagine going through what you just experienced. But I can relate when you talk about the trusting look in your horses eyes. What you shared here speaks volumes about how our own loyalty to our ever-loyal equine friends breeds unswervingly trust and unconditional love on both sides. It’s heart-warming to know you’re all safe, by the grace of Love.

Marjorie, you’re a good between-the-lines reader and a straight-shooter. Even if I didn’t already agree with you, I would be impressed by your brutal honesty and ability to cut to the chase in a few words. I take much longer to say what I mean.

NVGirl and everyone else who pampers their own retired horses but advocates the slaughter of other horses: I think I finally “get” that you are truly afraid for them. You really do believe they will be dumped by the dozens in a desert and die a fate you consider worse (because slower) than slaughter. If I were convinced that would happen, as you are, then I’d probably feel the same way you do.

But I’m convinced that won’t happen. All the people who abandon their horses ALREADY do that, though slaughter is available to them. I can envision a transition time, when there will be a temporary glut of horses and a huge strain on rescuers, but it won’t take many years for the industry to adjust to a new way of doing business, ex-slaughter. The inevitable result will be that the 1% of people who were using traders, auctions, and killer buyers to get rid of “dead weight” will HAVE to face up to their responsibilities. For those who still refuse to, there is the law, first of all, and, secondly, a system in place to take in the “strays,” if you will. It’ll expand to meet the need, just as with children who need foster and adoptive parents. All of us believe that even one child or one horse awaiting a real home is one too many. And yes, there will still be people who abuse horses and neglect horses, including some so-called rescuers, but at least no one will be REWARDED for victimizing their horses, which is what slaughter does. At the same time, I envision tougher laws, stiffer fines, improving enforcement and longer jail sentences for scofflaws.

What I really wanted to post this morning, before I saw the latest comments, is the last verse of a poem I read this morning. It speaks to me of what ALL of us, I believe deep down, would like to feel in our hearts toward every single living being:

“Healed is thy hardness, His love hath dissolved it,
Full is the promise, the blessing how kind;
So shall His tenderness teach thee compassion,
So all the merciful, mercy shall find.”

I don’t know the author’s name, sorry to say. The poem’s first verse refers to all of us being “cared for, watched over, beloved and protected.” That is my sense of how God sees His horses. It is also my fervent prayer for how each of us, as His offspring, will one day treat His horses. Caring for them. Watching over them. Loving them. Protecting them. As Gerri did in the flood.

Take good care, everyone,
Olivia

To Marjorie – New York City: You may choose to misinterpret my words to better serve your cause. But as for me, I choose to believe you are inteligent enough to understand what I truly said, even if you don’t agree with it.

Thank you for your kind words and wishes Marjorie!

I really pray from the bottom of my heart that those folks that have not opened they’re eyes to the suffering would please please take the time to get the education.

I only became aware of the slaughter issue a couple of years ago but being someone who needs to see for myself and get all the education I can on any issue I watched and I researched, in the end I was so totally horrified that this happened in our country, the USA, where we are supposed to have dignity and compassion what a horrid ugly secret.

I took in the horses because I felt I wanted to help in every way possible. I now feel like one of the most blessed persons for having been touched by the deep spirituality of the horse. I love my dogs and cats all Gods creatures to be honest but nothing has touched me and made me believe like the horses I have been blessed to know.

Speaking on their behalf is the least I can do to repay the gift they have given me!!!

Please folks do the research educate yourself if you do you will see that slaughtering horses must stop.

There will not be un-wanted horses dieing in pastures, those horses are already being left to suffer and it needs to be reported if seen.

We try to teach our children responsibility but if they are surrounded by lack of we can only teach them to look beyond and DO educate themselves……..Maybe a better world for the horses and all of us is not so far away.

As a side note my vet is absolutely in every sense of the word against horse slaughter and finds it as appalling as I do. So it is not considered humane by the vet community as a whole.

Gerri

P.S. If horses are not companion animals, then why does the AVMA literature about TRUE euthanisia call them that?

And if they are not companion animals, why do we have to pay a tax on their feed, as we do with dog and cat food?

And, finally, the bill to ban slaughter doesn’t change the classification of horses. It doesn’t affect federal funding, tax provisions, zoning restrictions, etc.

If free-spirited horse owners want to have something to fret over, how about NAIS?

Olivia

I haven’t had time to thoroughly read all of the posts since my last post, but I understand what a terrifying time Gerri has gone through, and for that I extend my most sincere condolences. (The system that dumped all the rain on you is giving us early snow..yuck!! )I am glad that your horses are safe.

Okay, now for the points I feel I must make:

I think that NVgirl was making the point that, if it is decided that slaughtering horses by captive bolt gun is ‘inhumane,’ then a dangerous precedent is set for the remainder of the animal livestock industry. If you enjoy a good steak or rack of lamb, you must realize that the manner in which cattle, sheep, and pigs are slaughtered is no more humane or inhumane than is the way horses are slaughtered. Are horses a higher being than the animals we traditionally eat? I think not. Horses’ relationship with man has merely been more cultivated than has man’s relationship with cattle, pigs, sheep, etc.

The bond between man and horse has been ENTIRELY created by man. The horse did not seek man out for his companionship in prehistoric times. Horses have been bred now for centuries to accentuate their positive traits, such as kind disposition, thus producing the equine that most are familiar with today. The ‘inherent gentleness’ Willie Nelson speaks of is nothing but a product of man’s continued contact with the horse as a species. Almost any animal, if given the right set of circumstances and exposure to man, will show ‘inherent gentleness.’

For those of you that have gone out and actually adopted horses, that is great–good for you. (Really, I mean that.) But you must realize that while you may have done all you can, and that is admirable, there is still nowhere for nearly 100,000 unwanted horses to go.

The unbiased Congressional Research Service has found that, at best, that there is room in the current rescue network for only 6,000 horses. That leaves approximately 94,000 per year with NOWHERE TO GO.

I agree that irresponsible breeding practices need to change, but while that may be a cause of some of the horses going to slaughter, the majority of them are no longer usable, rideable, or even pettable. Contrary to popular belief, there are still rogue horses out there that are of no use to anyone.

The question is continually ignored–how many anti-slaughter people can actually take in horses? Some of you have, and that is great. So, instead, I pose this question.

Since most people don’t have the resources to actually take in a horse or horses, why doesn’t the anti-slaughter faction start creating a fund to pay for the veterinary induced euthanasia AND carcass disposal of all the unwanted horses? Another case of ‘put your money where your mouth is.’

Around here, euthanasia runs around $75 per horse. Carcass disposal is another $100 or so. Figure a minimum of 60,000 horses per year (that could have been humanely killed and put to good use)..and, well, you do the math. Better start having a lot of carwashes and bakesales, ya’ll!!

This concept has not appeared anywhere that I have seen–It seems that the ‘out of sight, out of mind’ principle is at work here. I suppose it is alright if all of those horses die, as long as it is not in the public-eye at a slaughter plant.

The bottom line is–if you don’t want to sell your horse to slaughter, DON’T. If you want to rescue horses from the kill pen, DO. But until you are ready to really assume the cost of what you are trying to do to the rest of us, let’s keep private property as it should be. I don’t tell you how to drive your car, you don’t tell me how to kill my horses.

An interesting aside…as Gerri mentioned having been, I too have been touched deeply, on an intellectual and spiritual level by horses. But, I have also been ‘touched’ by biting, kicking, overtly dangerous animals that would not respond to human kindness, much less training. Not all horses are ‘companion’ quality. Obviously, as we work to continually improve the horse as a species, there still needs to be somewhere for the ‘rotten apples’ to go. Don’t ban slaughter and flood the market with these kinds of useless animals. Unless YOU personally are willing to take in a dangerous animal, perhaps you ought to reconsider your position. But, of course, if slaughter is banned it becomes someone else’s problem, then doesn’t it?

AMEN coppermountaincowgirl! You nailed it right on the head when you explained that the only reason horses are so ‘inherently gentle’ is because of man’s effect on them over the centuries. You go girl! Hell, Willie’s horses probably spoke to him when he was in one of his chemically enhanced stupors.

And I love the suggestion that, since most anti-slaughter people can’t feasibly take in horses, instead, why don’t they start funding the euthanasia and carcass disposal of those unwanted horses? That is a great idea, but I am sure that the response will be another case of deflecting/ignoring the real question—how it is the owner’s responsibility, etc, etc.

It is interesting where the anti-slaughter folks draw the line on private property rights….if you own the horse, you are responsible for PAYING to put it down. But, if instead, you choose the ***HUMANE*** option of sending a horse to slaughter to be put to good use, and making a small financial return, then you are therefore the devil incarnate—–even when the anti-slaughter groups are not willing to shoulder any of the resulting financial burden of veterinary euthanasia that they are directly responsible for.

To ban slaughter is terribly shortsighted. The thing is, NONE of the anti-slaughter cheerleaders will be held accountable for the tremendous excess of horses that would be created. Sure, you might take one in, Willie might take in another 11 (insert gasps of awe), but those other THOUSANDS will not, and cannot, all be adopted, or even placed in decent homes. Until there are places to put all of those horses, banning slaughter is just a sickening example of ‘putting the cart before the horse.’

Speaking of analogies…I should have known that my house analogy would be twisted around. So, if that is how we want to play, consider this: Since the anti-slaughter people seem to place as much value on a horse’s life as a humans, this little comparison is more than fair. Let’s say that this house is not a crack house that is negatively affecting the neighbors, but rather a house in which a homosexual couple resides—let’s say that the neighborhood is comprised primarily of prejudiced, hateful people who abhor the way that the homosexuals live. Do the neighbors have a right to burn that house down and then say to the homosexuals, “we have burned your house down and we will help you rebuild it if you agree to be heterosexual?”

Now I know that this analogy does take some liberties with comparisons (lifestyle choices vaguely equated to business practices), but the point is that NO ONE has a right to burn a house down just because they don’t condone what goes on inside it.

Switching gears to mention two things in closing…in any professional field, there will be disagreements. I am sure there are vets that are against slaughter, but every veterinarian I know believes slaughter to be humane, practical, and necessary.

Secondly, there are millions of people STARVING TO DEATH in this world. There are people impoverished and starving in this very country. It has been mentioned before that horsemeat is ground (as hamburger) and, through a BIA/USDA program (I believe), is shipped to poverty-stricken Native Americans.

How terribly pious, ridiculous, deluded and tragically wasteful it would be to eliminate a very nutritious food product (nutritionally superior in many ways to beef, in fact) from the system. If that is not a case of valuing animal life over human life, I don’t know what is. The misplaced priorities in this issue are disgusting.

Firstly, to Olivia and Geraldine: You guys are just wonderful. You are both eloquent and right on the mark with everything you say. I admit that I can be blunt, and perhaps too blunt at times, but I’m a New Yorker and well, we don’t mess around too much.

So much has been said on this subject and I’m not sure it’s worth addressing each and every thing, but I will address a few.

NVGirl: I did not misinterpret your words. You are afraid that the meat industry will be next. Well, I tend to doubt that. There are not enough vegans in the U.S. to take on the meat eating country.

As Olivia stated, horses are companion animals.

Coppermountaincowgirl: Horses are usually turned “mean” by men/woman who have no clue what they are doing; they “break” horses. Gentling horses, we have found, is a much better term and way to do things. I’ve seen guys take 2X4’s to a horse and kick horses in the stomach, because they were, according to them, misbehaving. It’s disgusting. You do not treat any animal that way, I don’t care what you all think, it’s simply wrong. And that’s how horses turn “mean”. And then, the answer to “man’s mistake” is to send the horse to a horrific death. I find this abhorrent behavior.

And IdahoBlue: You are grossly misinformed about where the “horse meat” goes. The “horse meat” goes to Europe and Asia; it is a delicacy there. It does not feed hungry people. There aren’t any starving people in Belgium or France; it’s a socialist government.

No matter what you call it, it’s still “slaughter” (killing in a cruel and violent way). Our horses who work for us, whether it’s their choice or ours, should not have to face this terror after working their entire lives to better your lives.

As for the property issue. You cannot mistreat your dog or any animal for that matter without consequences, because we have become a more enlightened society. Why should you be allowed to work your horse for it’s entire life and then when no longer needed, profit more from it? Instead of paying the $175 to “euthanize” it? What gives -you- that right?

Horses work for us, they do our bidding. It is no different than a dog working. Would you send your seeing eye dog to a slaughter plant? It’s the same thing.

IdahoBlue, I am not adverse to your idea of anti-slaughter organizations paying for other people’s horses to be euthanized if they don’t feel the obligation to do it themselves or if they truly cannot afford it (bankruptcy, death in the family, sudden business reversal, etc.). At least the owners would no longer MAKE money — blood money — off their horse’s hide.

The only trouble with that idea is, it’s still treating the horse’s life as disposable, dispensable. It reminds me of the kill dog-and-cat shelters, where the healthy animals are put up for adoption, but if they languish too long in the pen, they have a date with the needle (sad to say).

Some of those same cat/dog shelters are realizing that if they try harder, care more, become innovative, and take the “kill” option off the table, they can, slowly or swiftly, dramatically reduce the percentage of put-down animals. They dramatically increase the percentage of adoptions, in part by dramatically increasing the percentage of the pet population that is spayed or neutered. Meaning: NOT ABLE TO BE BRED, or to breed on their own.

So, since pet shelters are moving in the direction of no-kill from kill, I’m not sure that making a more humane form of unnecessary killing a replacement option for horses is a good one. There would be no incentive to come up with better solutions, nor would there be the urge to actually decrease breeding.

(I’d like to comment here that sometimes nice, saleable horses are not even given the chance to be bid upon. Instead, the killer buyer snaps them up before they even enter the ring. How unjust is that!)

No one on the anti-slaughter side is trying to avoid spending money on vet bills. Heck, we already put megabucks into saving the lives of abused or dumped horses, remember? It’s strange that we keep being accused of not putting our money where our mouths are, when, in fact, we do JUST THE OPPOSITE. (Many of us, I have noticed, do the exact same thing for “unwanted” dogs and cats: we donate time and money to shelters, and we foster and adopt them where possible. I’d be willing to bet pro-slaughter folks do the same.)

Hey, I have an idea: how about the vets donate their services to those who can’t afford to euthanize their horse and can’t find a new owner or a rescue with room for one more horse? Some vets already donate tons of time to horse rescues, so perhaps they would see their way to helping private owners who don’t want their horses to starve and don’t want to shoot them. For that matter, why don’t the vets come out to the ranch, either for pay or pro bono, with their captive bolt guns and use them on the horses that are no longer wanted?

Let’s face it: whether horse slaughter exists or not, there will always be “takers” and “givers” in this industry, as in every walk of life. The latter will be forever bailing out the former. That’s a given. But when slaughter is no longer an option, many of the “takers” will be forced to shape up. At the same time, ever more “givers” will step up to the plate. Creative ideas will continue to pour out from these “givers,” and all will benefit from the more humane culture, to one degree or another.

At the risk of getting long-winded [I mean staying long-winded!], isn’t the point of being on this earth to learn life’s big lessons? What if slaughtering horses were considered a proxy for the kind of a society we are. Wouldn’t we want to progress out of old, no-longer-acceptable solutions (slaughtering a species now considered a pet) by developing habits that make us more generous, responsible, merciful, humble, gentle, unselfed? Are not some thoughts/standards/beliefs/hab its/behaviors better than others?

It would be impossible to cultivate our innately good qualities if we permitted our — or anyone else’s — human partner, employee or family member to be devalued and sold and killed for meat, right? Just so, is it impossible to outgrow selfishness if we allow the EQUINE EQUIVALENT of a human partner (or employee or family member) to be sent to his death for a price. Sorry, but no amount of calling slaughter (and the steps leading up to it) “humane” will make it so. It is unimaginable suffering that none of us would dream of putting our beloved horse or dog or human child or ourselves through.

Put another way, isn’t the idea of living life to constantly move away from the lowest common denominator, toward higher ideals? To abandon “easy out” routes and adopt “hard-but-worth-doing” behaviors? Shouldn’t we fight on the side of LIFE and reject DEATH, life’s opposite?

(Enough blather about valuing a horse by turning his flesh into a noble, sacrificial gift to nutrition-starved nations. You do not MURDER a friend to make their life worthy.)

How can improving our motives and morals by being on the side of LIFE possibly result in a worse fate for horses? It cannot. It can only HELP them.

True enough, I despise the suffering of any animal. But each society decides to draw the line somewhere. The majority IN THIS COUNTRY IN 2006 has determined that horses are on the “companion” side of the fence, as distinct from the “commodity” side (that is, undomesticated, untamed, untrained “food” animals). It is a slow-moving line of demarcation, to be sure. Decades from now, perhaps the majority of Americans will regard still another species as a partner, no longer an edible. I can’t imagine which species it would be, since we don’t ride pigs, cows, sheep or goats. Hm, maybe camels? Some people breed them in the U.S., I believe.

Progress in civilization is an immutable law. It just happens, overriding objections.

You got another laugh out of me — this time at the homosexual house analogy. It’s as good (or bad) as my crack house analogy! I forgot to mention that in this pretend crack house live vulnerable children, forced by their crackhead parents to inhale that dangerous mental and physical atmosphere. The children are victims. Innocent. Defenseless. Helpless. That’s the position the horses are in facing slaughter. Totally subject to our whims. That is SO UNFAIR. It may be legal, but it’s immorally legal. Or is it morally illegal? Whatever. You get my point.
(I wouldn’t burn a crack house down myself. I’d call the authorities and report it. Similarly, I’m trying to pass a law to make the slaughter of thousands of innocent, victimized horses illegal.)

In closing, may I quote Thoroughbred owner and Blue Horse Charities founder John Hettinger, who wrote an article titled, “Where Will All the Horses Go?” (your question precisely, NV, Idaho and coppermountain) in the June 28, 2003, issue of “The Blood-Horse” magazine.

QUOTE STARTS HERE:

…One way or another thousands of Thoroughbreds meet this end; many through a lack of awareness on the part of their owners, some through misrepresentations of those who buy them, and some through theft.

There are those who are apologists for slaughter and wedded to the status quo. One of their most commonly heard arguments is “where would all the horses go? Our concern is to keep them from being mistreated.” We believe these arguments to be mistaken, sometimes cynical, and occasionally surreal. We’d like to have a look at the arguments of the pro-slaughter forces from several points of view: I. STATISTICAL, II. LOGICAL, III. CULTURAL, and IV. from the point of view of the IMAGE of our industry. We will do this without pointing a finger at any group in our industry.

I. STATISTICAL. The pro-slaughter forces seek to minimize the problem by stating that less than 1% of horses wind up being “processed” (their word). However, by making this (true) assertion, they show that their concern about “where would all the horses go?” is essentially bogus. The percentage of increase in the overall horse population would be extremely small. There were approximately 350,000 horses slaughtered in the United States in 1990. This was down to about 40,000 in 2002. Did this drastic reduction in the number of horses slaughtered result in dramatic increases in neglect and cruelty to horses? Certainly not; no one ever claimed that. As a matter of fact, between 1992 and 1993 the reduction in the number slaughtered was 79,000 (responding to market forces), TWICE the number which would be saved if slaughter ended completely tomorrow! The idea that a system that ceased to slaughter 79,000 horses in one year would face disastrous conditions if somewhat under 40,000 ceased to be slaughtered now is ludicrous.

Another question asked is “what would be done with all these dead horses?” It is estimated that the horse population of the United States is about 6,900,000 and that somewhat less than .07% of these horses wind up in slaughterhouses annually. A simple answer to the question of what is to be done with them when they die is that this is a totally insignificant increase, and that they should be disposed of in the same way as the ones NOT presently sent to slaughter, the overwhelming majority of the horse population.

II. LOGICAL. The claim of the pro-slaughter forces is that their concerns are humanitarian and unrelated to financial concerns. There are those who would disagree with them; for example, Pernell Hopkins, a police officer specializing in equine investigation, who for two years has monitored Pennsylvania horse sales that sell to slaughter. Officer Hopkins states in a letter published in the June 2002 edition of The Horse that slaughter ENCOURAGES neglect, and that “Money is the ONLY objective of selling horses to slaughter. Those of us in the trenches have seen enough.” (Emphasis supplied.)

The logical proposition goes this way. We have a potential perpetrator (one who might abuse a horse) and a potential victim (the horse). The answer offered by the pro-slaughter forces is to kill the potential victim so that the potential perpetrator can’t perpetrate! Comments here are unnecessary.

The pro-slaughter argument that some people can’t afford euthanasia really doesn’t deserve much attention either. Anyone who believes that it is all right to use a horse until he is unable to be used any longer, and then plead that a humane end that COSTS LESS THAN ONE MONTH’S BOARD is an argument for the perpetuation of this truly horrific cruelty, will agree with them.

There are laws on the books in every state whose aim is to protect animals from abuse. If potential abuse is the problem, we who care about horses should redouble our efforts to see that these laws are enforced.

III. CULTURAL. How do we as an industry feel about our horses? Are we horse lovers? Are these animals, who work for us in one way or another throughout their entire live, sensitive and capable of trust, courage, and generosity of spirit? Or are they fast cows without horns?

It is very common to see Thoroughbreds turned into personalities for promotional purposes, to increase the gate on a given day, for example. “Persimmon likes to have his picture taken” … “Calamity Jane knows when she’s won,” etc. We’ve all seen plenty of this kind of thing. We endow them with semi-human characteristics in print and on television when it suits our purposes… then we look the other way when bad things happen. Could this be called hypocritical? Do these animals have endearing characteristics or don’t they?

Eating horses is common sense in some cultures but has no place in ours. Almost all horse meat is sent abroad and both slaughterhouses now operating in the U.S. are foreign-owned. Is it right that we allow our horses to end this way (which involves several days of pain and terror) to supply meat to foreign countries? There are well-known fairs which conduct race meets and allow rescue organizations access to their grounds to try and save some of them ON THE CONDITION THAT THEY DON’T TALK ABOUT IT. If they felt that what is going on was right, would this be a condition of access to their grounds?

QUOTE ENDS HERE

Olivia

Olivia and Marjorie: I see that you are intentionally missing my point to better suit your argument, and really, I expected that.

It was mentioned that, apparently, you think it alright for the unwanted horses to die anyway, as long as it is not in the public eye at a slaughter plant. I see now, more than ever, that your naïve campaign has never been about saving horses’ lives, or about the manner in which they die. I have to thank you, actually, for illustrating that more effectively than any of the pro-slaughter groups ever could. In the seventh paragraph of your post, Olivia, you say “For that matter, why don’t the vets come out to the ranch, either for pay or pro-bono, with their captive bolt guns and use them on the horses that are no longer wanted?”

That statement proves the disgusting hypocrisy of your position. What does it matter if the horse is killed by captive bolt gun on the ranch or in the slaughterhouse, for Heaven’s sake?! Is it a better death for the horse if the owner pays for it to be killed? Apparently, it is not an issue of how a horse dies, but rather, what is done with the carcass. You would have a carcass rot and go to waste before having it practically, sensibly utilized.

You operate under the foolish assumption that all horses are equal, all of them are just like the equine heroes that Hollywood creates. That is not the case. There are people that make their living breeding and raising horses, and yes, some of them go to slaughter, but not just because, as you would like to think, they are a byproduct of excessive breeding. There are chronically lame horses, mean horses, even horses that are deformed.

You can bet your bottom dollar that Hidalgo and Flicka and Black Beauty sure as hell didn’t come from the kill pen—they came from breeders who are constantly working to produce the quality of horses expected by the movie industry, and by buyers. Ironic that the equine stars that you fawn mindlessly over are a product of the same industry—the breeding industry—that you decry and blame for the ‘excess’ of horses that go to slaughter.

I see that you DO place as much value on a dog or horse’s live as on a child’s. That is a perfect example of the arrogance of the anti-slaughter movement. I am a kind person, a compassionate person, regardless of what you may think because of my position on slaughter. But that, as you suggest, animal life should be elevated to the same value as human life is outright blasphemy.

I do not doubt that you donate time and money. But what my point is, is that IT IS NOT ENOUGH. There are still thousands of horses that don’t fall underneath the umbrella of ‘rescue’ care. It is for those horses, outside the umbrella, for which I am saying, ‘put your money where your mouth is.’ Just because you are doing all you can doesn’t mean it is enough. Out of sight out of mind, I guess.

You mention that you agree that anti-slaughter groups should help some with the expense of euthanasia and carcass disposal, but only in certain instances. I see that, no matter what, no one on your side of the fence wants to be fully accountable for the myriad problems (financial and otherwise) banning slaughter would create.

Idaho: We are not missing your point, you simply refuse to see the cruelty, barbarism and sin behind horse slaughter.

I’m not quite sure why you keep going on about the Church, i.e., you say we are putting animals on the same levels as humans. I’m sorry, I fail to see your point.

I’m Catholic and my church in New York City has very happily kept my anti-slaughter flyers in the vestibule. They have a blessing every year for the animals, which I attend. They don’t seem to have a problem about taking good care and protecting animals. As far as I’m concerned, since I’m Catholic, that’s enough for me.

But, perhaps this article about horse theft and horse slaughter might shed some light on the subject for you.

I am going to say a prayer that it does. (I’m not being sarcastic. I’m being honest. I am going to say a prayer for you tonight.)

http://www.harnessl ink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=450 91

IdahoBlue, I wasn’t going to write another word, but thanks to your taking my ONE facetious comment seriously, I have to defend what I meant.

When I said that the vets should come out to the ranch with a captive bolt, I was trying, with tongue in cheek, to point out that the reason they do NOT already do that is because it is NOT humane — certainly NOT more humane than a chemical injection!!!!!

I guess I’ve been so serious in every other statement, it was easy to miss my attempt at dark humor. Or was it that you purposely chose to miss it and misrepresent me in order to make your argument seem to hold up regarding our intentions? You seem poised to point your verbal gun at our motives. Perhaps it is hard to imagine that we love all horses so much, we actually put the horse’s desire to live BEFORE the human’s desire to kill him! Yes, BEFORE!!!! Yes, ABOVE!!!!! And you can call that blasphemy all you want. I call it Christly compassion. So do 70%-plus of Americans and 99% of the horse owners who give their beloved horses a graceful retirement and grace-filled final day on earth.

Either way, whether I was too unclear or whether you pretend not to understand me, let me put be perfectly clear now: I do not want to see a single horse killed for a human being’s convenience. I am all about saving lives, not destroying them. PERIOD.

If a horse owner insists upon putting his horse down, then at least, once this bill is passed, he will not have the wicked alternative of sending that poor horse to slaughter. He will instead have to give the horse a relatively painless end (injection or bullet). And if he dares do otherwise, he will be in big trouble with the law. Most owners whose horses end up being slaughtered (but who would no longer have that dastardly option) are law-abiding, right?

Even before reading your post, IdahoBlue, I had been thinking about whether I agreed with what I wrote — that is, about being willing to be complicit in euthanizing perfectly healthy horses for other people who choose not to take responsibility for those horses.

Well, I am admitting here and now that, in mulling it over, this bothered me. It is not right to do that to a horse. We’ve grown accustomed to doing it to our vastly overpopulated dogs (those “unwanteds” are in the millions every year, because deliberate breeding by humans and breeding by accident among strays is so excessive). But just because we’ve grown accustomed, doesn’t make it right. The trend is starting to be reversed, as I’ve already mentioned. So, I amend what I said earlier on the subject of participating in euthanizing horses in shelters, the way dogs are euthanized for lack of a home. I choose life, not death.

Thus, I’d have to say that the one and only way to take care of “unwanted” horses once slaughter is eliminated is for all of us who care about them to band together (yes, I repeat, I am including the pro-slaughter people who claim to take an interest in their fate, and I definitely include equine vets and the entire AAEP organization). We ALL will need to do an even better job of educating would-be and existing horse owners. The entire industry will need to have an even broader foster-and-adoption network. We ALL will need to raise more money and solicit more volunteers. But it can be done, and it will be done, because no horse who is tossed out of his home should face the prospect of death.

I know an amazing woman in Colorado who takes supposedly unrehabilitatable dogs and helps them quickly become calm, secure, and happy companions, without a trace of their previous aggressive, disobedient or disturbed behavior. She can do this because her pure, unrelenting love for all dogs — and her insistence on seeing all dogs’ pure goodness — allows her to understand them on a higher level than do other trainers, including the highly publicized experts.

In the same way, I know there are, in this wide and wonderful country, horse people who enjoy taking on the challenge of turning around the worst cases. I guarantee that more and more of these special folks will come out of the woodwork to help horses needing a complete overhaul. (The easiest way to limit the number of crazy, mean horses, though, is to eliminate — by cutting off the slaughter incentive — the kind of breeder and owner and trader who carelessly throws his horses out in a pasture, pays them no mind, and then ships them off when they prove to be uncontrollable.)

The point is, there are SO MANY GREAT SOLUTIONS OUT THERE. The racing/TB industry is increasingly doing its part to rescue its own. Now it’s up to the ranching/QH industry to do the same. I’m shocked by the complacency of the AQHA, which as far as I know has not lifted a finger to help its own horses. I’m just being brutally honest, taking a tip from New Yorker Marjorie.

A note about PMU horses: I hope Wyeth, the producer of Premarin and Prempro, is forced to stop making those drugs for lack of horse urine! Meaning I hope that with no trash heap to send its useless foals and used-up mares to, the PMU ranchers with whom Wyeth contracts will find it no longer a viable business. Women are already shying away from using these drugs when they learn the contents and the health risks.

Is there anything else to say? Not really. IdahoBlue, you refuse to believe John Hettinger when he says point blank that the world didn’t end when 79,000 fewer American horses were slaughtered in ONE YEAR. The figures are right there, in black and white, typed up and sent in by the horse “processors.”

Instead, you will only listen to silly lies by liars who have conned intelligent you into believing that horse slaughter is a decent, necessary end to an “unwanted” horse’s life — indeed, that it is one of his “purposes” for living. In truth, it is the most deceptive, hypocritical, cruel, barbaric, illegitimate, unethical, immoral and illegal industry in the U.S.

Illegal, because the Texas agricultural code, which declared horse slaughter for human consumption to be against the law many years ago, is being flouted by the French and Belgians, who are going about their dirty, bloody business right under our noses, on our own soil.

Immoral, because it strips the horse not only of his inherent worth as God’s innocent creature and man’s best friend, but, equally abominably, it violates his dignified stature and beautiful soul by turning him upside down on his head. That would be a criminal act if it were committed outside the slaughterhouse walls, and it is a criminal act inside those walls. May they come tumbling down like the wall of Jericho. We’re on the sixth time circling round (the bill has been introduced in three two-year sessions of Congress, I believe).The seventh and final time circling is drawing near!

For Life, Truth, and Love,
Olivia

Olivia, right on. Btw, it was very obvious to me that you were being facetious.

I’d like to note one more site here, for your information: http://horses.generitek.com/

It has quite a lot of information in the flyer.

Marjorie

I must respond to the remarks

“But, I have also been ‘touched’ by biting, kicking, overtly dangerous animals that would not respond to human kindness, much less training. Not all horses are ‘companion’ quality. Obviously, as we work to continually improve the horse as a species, there still needs to be somewhere for the ‘rotten apples’ to go. Don’t ban slaughter and flood the market with these kinds of useless animals.”

Here I must input you will get what you put in and most important how you attempt you’re approach to help an abused or otherwise aggressive creature and in this I don’t just refer to the horse.

I have seen the other side to all creatures and yes the horse. It was purely my understanding and fair reaction that has turned some very adverse moments in to golden ones.

I will also say if a horse has been mentally abused to the point of no return which in my opinion is rare then humane euthanasia is in order.

I will never believe the market will fill with these types of animals as I don’t believe that so many exist and can not be helped.

I also believe the industries that tend to push a horse to that type of behavior will also have to be held accountable.

I am faced in the next couple days with having to have one of my horses put down due to injuries in the flood, of course this will be done responsibly with love and tears.

At this point I am also worn out by comments by the unfortunate ones that are not able to see beyond what makes their lives easier. I still pray for them I know something will happen one day that will change their views it’s inevitable.

Gerri

Gerri, prayers your way tomorrow at Mass.

It is difficult to say goodbye, but I know you will send your horse to God, with dignity and grace.

Marjorie

Gerri and Marjorie,

You two have the most beautiful souls, and I love that you can see the inner beauty of our horses just by looking into their eyes. You both “get” it, for sure.
I am so grateful to you both for having the heart to help horses, in the way they have helped you become the fine women you are.

Gerri, I join Marjorie in tender prayers for you and your beloved horse. I believe you will be listening to God until you hear, very simply and gently, whether it is right to say goodbye, or right to trust that a turnaround is possible. Only God knows, and only God (through your dear horse) will tell you. Just remember that you have two new friends who are supporting you all the way, and caring for your brave horse as much as if we knew him “in person.”

I will check out that site you suggested, Marjorie.

Wish there was a way to get in touch with both of you separate from these posts without divulving private e-mail addresses. Any suggestions?

The last thing I wanted to say tonight is: Gerri, I thought of you leading your equine buddies out of the flood when I finally got around to watching the video of the 100-plus Netherlands horses following the four horsewomen off the island where they were stranded for several days, and it was the most beautiful, life-affirming sight to behold! The musical accompaniment is stunning. The entire scene is so THE OPPOSITE of how horses are led to slaughter, with fear and trepidation. In this life-saving episode, they were willing to follow, because they trusted their leaders. With good reason. I hope and pray ALL horse lovers are able to see — and weep with joy — over this glorious rescue. (The 18 innocent ones who drowned days earlier are most assuredly at peace.)

My thanks to Willie for unwittingly introducing us to one another. I truly appreciate EVERYONE who has posted comments here.

Olivia

Gerri and Olivia, making this quick because I’m running to church.

You can get in touch with me via the site I gave you: http://horses.generitek.com/

I’m in the PAHS group on Care2. Please contact me and I’ll hook the three of us up.

Olivia, I was hoping for the same thing. I’d love to get to know you both better.

Best to you both,

Marjorie

Marjorie,

I got as far as trying to download “Babbel an IRC client” when I decided it’s simply too complicated and time-consuming for me to figure out, sorry to say. I already had to quit reading/posting as a member of one horse rescue group for that very reason (time!). So, I don’t know what to say. I have lots of friends with their own websites that contain “contact me” e-mail addresses, but if I got permission to give one of them to you and ask you to e-mail them, they might be deluged with unwanted emails from readers all around the world which wouldn’t be fair to them.

I have something separate and specific I’d like to share with each of you, but maybe that’s not meant to be….

Gerri, please let us know about your dear horse. If you have any suggestions for how to keep in touch, let us know.

Olivia

Olivia – Bonnie

You don’t need to dl Babel for the Care2 site. Just log into Care2 and send me a mail: Marjorie C.

Or here, I can block unwanted mails here or even get rid of the account: morgmarj@yahoo.com

er, I meant to say Olivia – Geri!

Sheesh. Doing too many things at once.

Marjorie

Thanks SO MUCH for those two easy options, Marjorie. Maybe this’ll be my last post here (strange feeling, having gotten so accustomed to catching up on it nightly, or morningly I’m going to miss it!)

Before I bow out, though, I’d like to mention that in looking a bit more into the Netherlands horse rescue, I discover that the breeder of these 100-plus horses left them in the pasture despite being warned of the impending severe storms and flooding. (They’re mostly Friesians and Pinto WBs, with more than a few pregnant. Those who didn’t make it before the rescue, dying from either exposure or drowning, were mostly babies — so sad). I also learned that the breeder told people he sells as many horses as he can and sends the leftovers to slaughter. The authorities are reportedly looking into filing abuse or neglect charges against him.

When I was Googling for this information, I came across the AQHA Forums, perchance. From Sept. 7th (the day the AHSPA passed in the House) on, members have posted 18 pages of comments under the thread “STOP HORSE SLAUGHTER.” Here’s the link:

http://www.aqhaforums.com/ viewtopic.php?t=6411&postdays= 0&postorder=asc&start=0

I scanned 2 or 3 of the 18 pages. They are fairly civil and rational discussions.

Marjorie, I was amused to see one of your posts quoted in full on the site — the one where you refer to SHARK. The poster (either katz or Jw) was giving his props to you!

Also amusing, but in a different way, was a list of pointers taken from the Common Horse Sense site, which give tips on what to say in favor of horse slaughter. That page was then pasted verbatim on THIS (Rolling Stone) site by the poster “nvk” on Nov. 3 (see below).

One idea on the AQHA thread is that if the owner shipping his horse to another country pays a $200 or $300 fee, refundable upon the horse’s return to the U.S., this would prevent the horse from being sent to slaughter overseas. That’s brilliant! Proves that truly sound ideas are endless.

I might add that all the efforts in the world to educate and inform and fund rescues IN ADVANCE of legislation banning slaughter would never amount to a hill of beans unless and until slaughter actually ceases. Why? Because there’d be no incentive on the part of either big breeders or backyard breeders to actually make the changes necessary to survive economically under a slaughterless regime. Only when feet are held to the fire, it seems, are previously unincentivized (lazy? irresponsible? selfish? stubborn?) people apt to MOVE.

Another point brought up in the AQHA posts: as long as demand for horse meat exists, horses will be found in the world somewhere to meet that demand. That’s a tragic thought. But as the world continually civilizes itself, and as countries one by one are pressured by these civilizing forces to ban horse slaughter, it is foreseeaable that demand outstripping supply would make the price of the meat high enough to cause consumers to stop buying/eating the product. I pray for that day. Meanwhile, onward march.

Like I said before, this has been a stimulating discussion. So long to you’all.

Olivia
PS: Gerri, I hope to be in touch with you via our NYC friend.

For any newcomers to this discussion, I recommend you visit http://www.commonhorsesense.com to get a rational look into the issue.

All of the melodramatic emotional blather found elsewhere (and in this discussion) does nothing but draw attention away from the truly important points of the issue.

The captive bolt gun method of slaughter is considered humane by the AVMA and the AAEP–associations of licensed veterinary medicine professionals.

The antislaughter faction seems to believe that through their hysterics, they can magically create places for the 100,000 unwanted horses that processed annually, when the current rescue network has room for only 6,000 horses– and most of them are already full.

The interesting thing is that the majority of anti-slaughter supporters cannot personally take in any of the unwanted horses. They expect others to.

Again, please visit http://www.commonhorsesense.com.

to: coppermountaincowgirl

It is sad to note that the people who are pro-slaughter are the only ones in this country who stand to gain monetarily from this practice. The ones who work horses until they can’t work any longer, and then want an easy out and one that will bring in money for them.

I wonder if coppermountaincowgirl is a breeder? I would guess, quarter horses, since these breeders are the most offensive of the lot.

If you really want to know the truth go to: http://www.saplonline.org/horses.htm and watch the video. This was all filmed at a slaughter house. That’s the truth. Not some words from people who are making money off the terror and suffering of America’s horses to be fed as a delicacy to the rich in Europe and Asia.

And as to where the horses will go – curtail your breeding! There are so many rescue organizations out there, helping and taking in horses bound for slaughter. What have you done to end this atrocity?

Shame on you coppermountaincowgirl. Truly, shame.

Other sites that will inform you all of the truth:

http://www.habitatforhorses.o rg
http://www.horse-protection.org/

“The interesting thing is that the majority of anti-slaughter supporters cannot personally take in any of the unwanted horses. They expect others to.” ~ coppermountaincowgirl

My response to coppermountaincowgirl: The interesting thing is that the majority of pro-slaughter supporters will not personally do the responsible, humane thing for their own horses. They expect others to.

Recently I compiled a few citations about that dread word “change.” All the quotes below apply to coppermountaincowgirl and her cohorts, who cannot adjust to the fact that so many moral Americans are demanding an end to the murder of man’s equal equine partners:

“The world hates change, yet it is the only thing that has brought progress.” ~ Charles F. Kettering (1876-1958) U.S. electrical engineer and inventor

“Radical changes in human thinking and attitudes are always alarming and painful. Too many of us have a heavy investment in the status quo.” ~ Allan Watson (Distinguished Research Professor and Ernest P. Rogers Chair at the University of Georgia School of Law, is regarded as one of the world’s foremost authorities on Roman law, comparative law, legal history, and law and religion)

“Change is inevitable in a progressive country. Change is constant.” ~ Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881) British author, politician, prime minister

“At every crossing on the road that leads to the future, each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand appointed to guard the past.” ~ Maurice Maeterlinck (1862-1949) Belgian playwright and Nobel Prize-winning author

“The world is full of people whose notion of a satisfactory future is, in fact, a return to the idealized past.” ~ Robertson Davies (1913-1995) Canadian author

It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare; it is because we do not dare that they are difficult. ~ Seneca, Roman philosopher and statesman (4 BC?–65 AD)

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed it’s the only thing that ever has.” ~ Margaret Mead (1901-1978) American cultural anthropologist

“If you want to make enemies, try to change something.” ~ Woodrow Wilson (1856-1924) 28th U.S. President, 34th N.J. Governor

“Tradition is like a river; it must constantly be renewed, or it grows stagnant.” ~ Frederic E. Fox, Princeton ‘39

“To go against the dominant thinking of your friends, of most of the people you see every day, is perhaps the most difficult act of heroism you can have.” ~ Theodore H. White (1915-1986) political writer

I know a few people who are no heroes or heroines to America’s horses.

Everyone knows that millions of animals are slaughtered alive every year, without being rendered unconscious. The production line moves too fast for re-dos. It is naive to think that horses are somehow spared from the same fate. Anyone who thinks it is mere melodrama to spare horses a bewildering, lonely, terrifying, painful death has a truly dark soul, hard heart and closed mind. I pity anyone who has so suppressed his/her kindness — and guilt pangs. The latter, when they surface, will make you weep uncontrollably — for our poor, precious horses.

Yes, I am a breeder. Quarter horses and Paints. I AM willing to be responsible for any excess horses I have, (I will shoot them myself if that is what it comes to) except that I very rarely have any excess horses. I am a responsible breeder.

I am committed to the quality of the horses I produce–I sell horses across the country. However, there are sometimes horses that are born with crooked legs or other problems that renders them useless. Yes, those horses get ‘canned.’

Not once during this spirited discussion have any of the anti-slaughter cheerleaders said, YES, I can take in an unwanted horse.

The horse breeding industry is highly specialized and very competitive. Few people are satisfied with horses of mediocre quality–they want the proven pedigrees, flashy colors, etc, and most breeders are devoted to producing just that, because that is what the demand is for.

(Well, I guess you ‘Hidalgo-groupies’ are happy with any kind of horse, no matter how old, crippled, dangerous, or otherwise useless it may be– as long as you can visit it in a ‘rescue’ facility and not have to be individually responsible for it, and therefore can convince yourself you are doing something worthwhile by extending what is sometimes a painful and miserable life for those animals–how humane is that?!?!). It is easy for you to point fingers and say ’shame on you,’ but the ignorance and blind fervor in which you pursue this cause is the most worthy of shame, because you accept NONE of the real responsibility.

I just LOVE how instead of stepping up to the plate and actually accepting responsibility for the potential disaster you are desperately promoting, the standard is to deflect the heart of the question–I AM willing to put down any excess horses I have, as I am sure most breeders are. YOU, however, are unable to take in any substantial number of unwanted horses, and so it is easier to compile quotes and reverse the question and brush off any accountability you may have.

The monetary ‘gain’ from sending horses to slaughter is absolutely insignificant. I make my money on horses that are sold otherwise. Horses that are sold to slaughter DO NOT bring in that much money.

It is a crying shame for a viable, necessary resource to be wasted just so the naive and uneducated can sleep better at night.

Really, you don’t care if those horses still die. You just don’t want it to be in the public eye. Out of sight, out of mind. Your ignorance must be bliss.

TO: coppermountaincowgirl

Please do not “assume” what I do, or I don’t do. You don’t know me and you don’t know what I have or have not done in my life. I am not about to tell you about the animals I have rescued, because it is my business and not yours. I will tell you though, that my life has been devoted to helping animals, not breeding more to add to the surplus that already exists. YOU are the problem, not the horses.

But, I have asked you a number of times to go to the following sites:

http://www.saplonline.org/hor ses.htm
http://www.horse-protection.o rg/
http://www.habitatforhorses.org

and read, watch and listen to the horses anguish as they go to slaughter. You might also find on those sites (and many others, I might add) all of the rescue horses that they have taken in and are up for adoption.

I was correct in believing you to be a Quarter Horse breeder. It is a well known fact that Quarter Horses are in abundance due to the breeders.

Since you ask me what I’ve done, what did you do to help the horses from the I-44 accident? Did you care that they were being transported cruelly and illegally?

Talking about sleeping at night, I wonder how you manage it at all.

Hello. I am a Ford Motor Company employee. Yes, I manufacture cars. That is how I put bread on the table for my family of five.

The car I most enjoy producing is the Mustang. I have customers around the country who want perfect Mustangs, with quick acceleration, power, speed, good traction, stamina, and dime-turning capabiliity.

These customers also want their Mustangs with great-looking sporty bodies in lots of pretty colors and a range of sizes. Some race their Mustangs. Others enter them in various competitions, where they can show off all their Mustang’s fine features and abilities. The idea is to make money, and also bask in the glory of having the best Mustang there is to offer.

Those people will pay big bucks me if I give them exactly what they’re looking for.

Unfortunately, sometimes — through no fault of my own, mind you — a Mustang I’ve worked hard on just doesn’t make the cut. It’s got a major flaw — maybe one of its front axles is crooked, or it has a weak cylinder that slows down its otherwise high-powered engine. Or maybe it’s got some superficial flaw that I won’t come off, so it’s just plain ugly. Occasionally I even see a tempermental Mustang — hot-tempered. Acts like it wants to run down pedestrians or kill other drivers. (Again, mind you, it’s not my fault.)

That’s when I have to take responsibility and bring the Mustang I spent so much time and money producing to the trash recycling center.

Sometimes irresponsible people ask why I don’t gently turn off the engine and bury the poor car in a quiet graveside ceremony. I tell them to stop being mawkish, sentimental and melodramatic. They need to mind their own business, and respect my property rights.

Besides, they just don’t understand. I am too busy earning a living to feed my family of five to take time for such foolishness.

Also, I’ve heard that the spare parts from my no-good Mustangs are used to remake old cars for poor families in France, the Netherlands, Belgium, and as far away as Japan. (I didn’t know Japan had poor people.)

Yes, I’m proud of my ability to make flawless Mustangs — at least 99% of the time, anyway.

And I’m proud that I don’t waste a single ounce of steel.

Why, the greatest honor I can think of is to be told that I am so close to my Mustangs, I’ve even developed a heart of steel.

I don’t need to tell you my name. You already know it, if you’ve been reading these Rolling Stone posts.

Darn it! I am sorry I didn’t think of the car analogy. It is a pretty good one. Except for the ‘heart of steel’ part. It is highly ironic to be accused of having a ‘heart of steel,’ when I am around my horses every day of the year, riding, training, hauling, dealing with their injuries and ailments, and in a worst case scenario, putting one down. I have found loving homes for aged horses that could no longer be of use to me personally. I have a mare with a deformed hind leg that has produced several wonderful foals. To be accused of being cold-hearted is the funniest thing yet—it demonstrates just how little the anti-slaughter faction chooses to see about the horse breeding industry.

I would say, as many in the actual horse industry do, that the naïve anti-slaughter campaigners are the cruel ones. They would choose, instead of an instantaneous, humane end of life for a horse, (yes, in a processing plant, and yes, HUMANE, as determined by licensed veterinary professionals) they would instead choose to leave horses to live a long life with chronic pain languishing in some pathetic excuse of a rescue facilites, so they can go to the rescue shelter on their time off, feed the poor, suffering animal carrots, pet the pretty horsey, and get a nice fat tax write off for donating their disposable income. Awww, isn’t that cute?

I guess it is just the part that a horse carcass can be productively utilized that is the trouble. The horses can die, as long as their carcass doesn’t get used for anything, even bettering veterinary care for their kind. Does it matter to the horse how its carcass is used? I don’t think so.

Golly gee wow, I guess I am the problem, breeding horses that people ACTUALLY WANT TO BUY!! How silly of those horse buyers to want to spend their hard earned money on a horse they can actually ride for a lifetime, show with pride in whatever discipline they choose, bond with, and make a part of their family. I just can’t see why those sillies don’t want to put their money into some pathetic crippled horse that would be better off dead or an overtly dangerous horse that their children can’t even go into the corral with!!

I see how highly it is resented that I make a wonderful living with horses—horses that have enriched my life beyond belief, no matter what the anti-slaughter zealots choose to believe. And contrary to what is easy for the anti-slaughter group to think, I am a good trainer, a gentle trainer, and have satisfied customers around the country—people thrilled with their horses because of their gentle, loving dispositions (and yes, conformations and color) that were cultivated by my methods. I love my horses, but I also know that there is a big difference between healthy emotion and melodramatic hysterics about the ‘evils’ of horse slaughter. Thought of trying out for a soap opera, ladies? You might do well there with your gushing floods of ridiculous theatrics and cute quotes and self-appointed saintliness. Or maybe you should just try some Prozac, pull your heads out, and look around at the real problems in the world.

Not surprisingly, neither Olivia or Marjorie could or would step up to the plate and say, “Yes, I am arranging for homes for XX number of unwanted horses right now, whether at my own home or a friend’s.” I really liked the cute little cop-out about keeping what you have or likely haven’t done to rescue horses to yourself, Marjorie. But, I will grant you that what you have actually rescued is your business. JUST AS WHAT I DO WITH MY HORSES IS MINE.

And yet, coppermountaincowgirl, you have still not stated that you have viewd the videos that I have repeatedly mentioned in my posts.

Perhaps you are afraid to witness first hand, what we have been asking you to see and understand? The brutality, the barbarism and the “slaughter” in the true sense of the word. Can you not face it?

And, since you are trying to paint me into something I am not – yes, I have rescued horses, dogs, cats, puppies, kittens, pigeons and ducks.

What YOU want is to continue to breed and let us clean up your ‘mess’, while you go about your business with what you think is a clear conscience.

I say again, shame on you. Watch the video, look at the pictures and read about what your kind is doing to our American horses. It is not instantaneous and it is NOT humane. The vets who keep saying it is are being bought off. No man or woman in their right minds could watch the slaughter and say it is humane. Many, many vets have been very outspoken against slaughter. Read, coppermountaincowgirl, please read and educate yourself.

In the interest of fairness, I have gone to the mentioned sites, and watched the videos, seen the pictures. I can see why they would be disturbing to someone with little or no background in animal science. All animals will convulse post-mortem. Movement after death does not indicate life.

And, the majority of those photos and videos cannot even be proven to have been taken in the United States. That is a fact.

And, since I have been accused of not taking the time to educate myself, apparently I need to clarify I have taken a great deal of time and money to earn several college degrees—one of which is in equine science. I would hardly call the blind absorption of anti-slaughter propaganda ‘education.’ Anti-slaughter propaganda is free. Obviously, as far as education goes, you get exactly what you pay for—just as it is with horses.

I will return to the car analogy, if that is the court on which the game is being played. I am an employee of Ford Motor Company. The company produces a number of models, the best of which is the Mustang. It is highly coveted—fast, sleek, handles like a dream. The company also produces the Pinto (highly appropriate car names for this discussion, no?). It is a car that has a great number of problems, ranging from design flaws to poor crash-test ratings. It is the only car some people can afford. It is the only car some people even know about. Some have idolized the Pinto with posters of it, Pinto lover clubs, and even adopt worn out Pintos to park in their yards (until they run out of space, of course!)

The people that have to drive Pintos really resent the fact that Mustangs are highly sought after and are being produced for those who can afford it, and want the best that money can buy. They resent that the Ford Motor Company makes money on the Mustangs, and that there are Pintos left sitting on the sale lot and there is just no more room to park dead Pintos. They reason that everyone should be satisfied with driving a Pinto, perhaps because they have had to be satisfied with nothing but Pintos. Pinto parts are needed and desired in other countries for, let’s say, bizarre art sculptures. But because that form of art is not favored in this country, the Pinto drivers don’t want any parts of those car parts to be utilized—they want he car to be completely intact when it gets to the landfill.

The suggestion that everyone should be happy with a ‘Pinto’ is beyond ridiculous. The idea that Pinto parts should never be used for anything but running the car itself is sickeningly wasteful—especially when dismantling the car has been proven to be a mechanically sound, safe, and productive practice.

Let’s be realistic here—we are talking horses, not cars, but I wasn’t the one that came up with the car analogy, but I thought I would go with it because of the opportunity to make some very valid points.

Really, I hope that everyone that has experienced nothing but Pintos has a chance to drive a Mustang, and can see that the Mustangs are produced to fill the demand of the market, because not everyone is happy driving a Pinto—and should not be expected to.
Again, I encourage any new visitors to go to http://www.commonhorsesense.com.

to: coppermountaincowgirl

It is apparent that you have the morals and ethics of a rock. I don’t care how many degrees you have, nor do I care that you are a “tough cowgirl” who can control large animals.

You are misinformed and ignorant about what happens at a slaughter plant and you are determined to continue life as is, so that the “animal rescuers” can continue to clean up your “mess”.

You are in the miniority and perhaps there is a very good reason for that. Eighty percent of Americans want horse slaughter to end, but yet you are trying to convince people that your twenty percent are in the right. You are not.

If your heart is so hardened to what really goes on, then perhaps many more years of experience will soften it. I hope so.

And, those videos were absolutely filmed in the United States. I personally know people who have been there, while they were taking the videos.

Please don’t lie to get your point across, it just makes you look even worse.

I assure you, Marjorie, as well as anyone else reading this discussion, that there it not a lie in any of my previous posts.

It is apparent that the thing to do in the anti-slaughter camp is to point fingers and call names when emotional ranting and raving is overshadowed by scientifically and ethically sound, truthful, and logical arguments. How incredibly telling that is. Thank you Marjorie, for demonstrating that for everyone.

The strictly emotional, nonsensical, misinformed, melodramatic platform of the anti-slaughter faction simply does not hold water against the realities of science, and of true ethics where the horse is concerned. Please visit http://www.commonhorsesense.com.

I know I will not change your mind, Marjorie, nor any of the minds of the other inane, brainwashed anti-slaughter cheerleaders. I am simply continuing with this discussion to provide a balanced view to those who may read it in the future.

Regarding your reference that 80% of Americans want horse slaughter to stop—really now, as anyone who has studied polls and statistics knows, a ‘study’ or poll can be skewed any which way by those conducting it. Had the animal agriculture industry been polled, instead of focusing on those who already subscribe to the anti-slaughter blather, the poll would have turned out much differently—but you know that, don’t you? Including the animal agriculture industry in the poll wouldn’t fit the anti-slaughter cause, now would it?

I am sure you don’t care about my education, or my experience, because it probably makes your own look very paltry in comparison. Oh wait…you know how to use a computer and look up websites—therefore you really ARE ‘educated’ in this matter now, aren’t you?

Does it really make sense to accuse myself (and, by association, other breeders) of having the morals and ethics of a rock? Would we be in the business if we didn’t love horses? For the anti-slaughter camp to brazenly infringe on an industry they really know nothing about, making ludicrous accusations, as well as infringing into the private property rights of horse owners, is damnably sanctimonious. To make assumptions about the character of breeders based on your own narrow-minded beliefs, just to help convince yourself that you are in the right, is short-sighted and willfully ignorant.

If you want to accuse me of having the ethics and morals of a rock, then I could just as easily accuse you of having the brains of a rock for flat refusing to see that we, in the animal agriculture industry, are the ones that truly know the animals and the science of their lives and deaths. We have spent our lives studying it because of our love for the animals—why else would we be in the business? Does that make any sense at all? How can you accuse anyone involved in animal agriculture as being misinformed when most of us have made it our lives to be informed in order to better serve our animals, and yes, our businesses? How can you be so terribly presumptuous as to assume that your insipid emotion is more valuable than real education and experience?

Well, I guess it doesn’t matter, because sense and logic have never played a part in any of the anti-slaughter nonsense. Why start here?

Wow, I think that I want to be an anti-slaughter campaigner! I like horses (and know all about them) because I have seen them on T.V, and I could never have a horse of my own when I was little and I am really really jealous of the people that spend their lives with horses and make a living raising them! I just know I know more about horses than they do because I am a member of the Flicka Fan Club! I want to spend my allowance to go visit horses on the weekend in a rescue facility, but the one nearest to me closed down because of inadequacy and inhumane conditions! I wish I could have a pretty horsey but I can’t afford a good one so my mommy says I can adopt one from the kill sale. I can’t ever ride her because she is chronically lame but I can spend tons of money feeding her! I never wanted to go to college anyway. I have studied all of these posts and I think I have the anti-slaughter way of thinking all figured out!

a) NO ONE is supposed to make a living raising and breeding horses, since they are ‘enlightened beings’ comparable in spiritual worth to a human (refer to previous post that included horses, dogs, and human babies in the same category—wow!), and because everyone in the United States that wants a horse should be happy adopting an unwanted horse (possibly crippled, dangerous, or otherwise unusable), instead of spending their hard-earned money on a safe, sound, well-bred, intelligent, beautiful animal that can provide a lifetime of companionship, use, and enjoyment.

b) It is best to let a horse carcass go to waste (rather than slaughtering it), filling up landfills, contaminating groundwater sources, and potentially poisoning domestic and feral carnivores that stumble upon a carcass that has been euthanized by injection.

c) It is perfectly alright to expect horse owners to pay for euthanization and carcass disposal instead of making a small financial return on a horse. We, however, aren’t willing to assume any of the cost. It is all up to those big bad meanies that make a living raising horses—even though the horses could have been humanely killed and used. The horse will look down from Horse Heaven and get really mad if it’s carcass is eaten by humans! Oh no!!

d) It is best to pretend that rampant, misinformed emotion is more valid than sound, scientifically and economically proven fact.

e) It is best to pretend that horse slaughter ONLY produces horsemeat that goes to feed wealthy gourmets in foreign countries. (Ignore the fact that truckloads of ground horsemeat are shipped to impoverished Native Americans, that horse slaughter is the main source of equine cadavers used in veterinary research to improve the wellbeing of the species, that equine pericardium are used in human heart surgeries, zoo animals are fed horse meat because it most closely mimics a natural wild diet.)

f) It is best to pretend that there will magically appear 94,000 more places for unwanted horses to go, since Congressional research shows that the 6,000 spaces currently available in the rescue network are mostly full. Even though I personally cannot take in any unwanted horses, I am sure other people will do that.

I can’t really put my money where my mouth is, so others will pick up the slack for me while I move on to my next cute little project and try to earn my next Girl Scout badge! Maybe I will go to Africa and tell the natives how to hunt lions since I have watched the Nature Channel and I know all about it!

g) It is best to pretend that the literally hundreds of animal agriculture and veterinary associations that oppose S 1915 are in the wrong. We like to pretend that we know more about horse slaughter than they do.

h) We like to ignore the implications that S 1915 would have for other animal agriculture. We like to go to McDonalds or to the Outback Steakhouse and eat our yummy burgers and steaks, because it is perfectly okay to slaughter cows and other large livestock with a captive bolt gun—just not horses, because we watch movies and surf the internet and know that it is A.O.K for cattle, sheep, and pigs to be slaughtered that way!!

i) It is okay if all of the unwanted horses still die—just as long as it is not in the public eye at a slaughter house, and is not in a manner that anyone will benefit from it. Our heads are in the sand and we like them there!! Out of sight, out of mind is our motto!

Good Grief! Coppermt. should change name to Copper-mouth! You protest too much! ILuvMH. is just obnoxious.
I am on the front lines everyday. I see all the killing and suffering! I am a “horse Rescue” with wonderful, well cared for horses that were saved from slaughter. Horses with wounds that just needed care, or horses abused that needed re-training. These “rescues” go to new homes. These “useless” horses are now therapeutic, 4-h or a first time horse owners dream.

I know, without question, that people can claim to be horse breeders, horsemen etc. and not have a clue what a horse really is. They never took the time, or had the sense to see what they were missing.
Breeders do so for money, not necessarily loving horses. There are many “responsible” breeders, but hundreds of “back yard breeders”
You are entitled to your opinions, just remember horses died in human wars to grant you that.
A few well chosen words carry far more weight than a torrent of protestations.

Thank you for your contribution. Your comments has produced a new wave of anti-slaughter advocates!

To Homegrowncat:

You proudly proclaimed that you sent several of your horses to slaughter because it was a painless alternative. I am sure it was. You got paid and the nice meat man took your problem horses off your hands so you did not have to pay for their medical treatment or euthanasia. That is as painless as it comes (for you)!

Unfortunately you are deceiving yourself about what you subjected your horses to. Simply view: http://www.nbc5.com/video/1028 0807/index.html
You will see what you subjected them to.

To: Coppermountaincowgirl
You make many incorrect claims but I will consider only one. You accuse the polls that show between 70 and 80% of Americans want horse slaughter to be stopped as being biased and intentionally skewed.

There have been many online polls and several professional polls, and they are all amazingly consistent. While it is easy for an online poll to be distorted, the professional polls are designed by experts. These polls were made by some of the most reputable polling companies in the country. They would never skew their results and endanger their reputations. Your allegation is unfounded as is almost everything else you claim to have first hand knowledge of.

And several of you have tried to play the AVMA card. The AVMA is notorious for its support of the slaughter industry and total disregard for its cruelties. For example, one of the members of their “humane practices” board was asked how a farmer could best dispose of unproductive laying hens. He recommended throwing them live into a wood chipper! Again, a painless solution.

Folks, it is all very simple, its about money vs ethics and whether we feel any responsibility what-so-ever for our horses.

Note that you will have to remove any spaces in the link below as they may be put in automatically after I post:

http://www.nbc5.com/vid eo/10280807/index.html

To Break Heart…shouldn’t that be ‘Bleeding Heart’? Yep, horses died for the war cause. So did cows and chickens and pigs and sheep to feed soldiers and civilians alike. Why do you think the horse is ‘above’ those other animals?

I think coppermountaincowgirl is right on the money. Just because she consistently, logically breaks down all of the brazen and yes, melodramatic sentimentality, of the anti-slaughter arguments, you think she is being too mouthy. Yessir, it would sure be easier to promote and advance all of the bleeding heart, cry me a river baloney if she would just shut up.

The AVMA and the AAEP, along with many many animal agriculture organizations oppose S 1915. The AQHA is the largest breed association in the world–it opposes S 1915. And say what you will about the AVMA–now try to find a way to pick apart and criticize the other hundred plus organizations that oppose the bill. All of them base their information on scientific, logical, and ethical animal agriculture practice, (gained from actual experience in the industry) while the anti-slaughter people have nothing but emotion and ‘oh look, see the video of the poor horsey,’ which of course plays to the uneducated and misinformed. Good job preaching to the choir, ya’ll.

Er, I guess that should be ‘Copper mouth’ because I just won’t quit tearing apart the strictly emotional arguments of the anti-slaughter advocates. Darn me anyway!

John Holland, I see that you question my credibility, and accuse me of making statements that are not true. I assure you that I have represented myself and my experiences completely honestly. You said that I make many ‘incorrect’ statements. I am sure that the facts and opinions I have brought to the forum do not match those on your side of the fence, but that does not make them untrue. But, of course, truth has always been a subjective matter for the anti-slaughter camp.

And regarding the polls–I am sure that the polling agencies did their job, collecting a random sampling from the American public. I would be interested to know the exact demographics of those polled. I assure you that the animal agriculture industry has been, for the most part, conveniently left out of those polls.

Let’s say I am an architect, and a new building code is being proposed that I know to be impractical and unsafe. I am in the minority–after all, the majority of the population does not work in the architectural field. It is decided to take a poll to decide whether or not to adopt the new building code. Does the architectural/construction industry poll the general public to determine what will be the new policy? Do waitresses, teachers, cooks, truck drivers, secretaries, etc know what is safe as far as building codes go?I don’t think so. Only those actually in the architecture/ construction industry would be questioned because they are the only ones qualified to weigh in with an opinion. The difference is, the animal agriculture industry has not been given that chance, and so, I still maintain that the polls you put so much value in hold about as much water as a sieve.

Also, luvmyhorsey–you sure know how to call a spade a spade. But I guess when it comes from our side it is considered ‘obnoxious.’ You made some excellent points with your post. Thank you for jumping into the ring!

The action the Senate takes, concerning the passing of S 1915, will allow the American people an in-depth study of the morals of our Senators. Americans are over whelmingly opposed to horse slaughter. This speaks highly of our citizenry. Americans are horsekeepers. We hold the horse in high esteem. Horses helped to settle this country. Horses plowed the fields. Horses provided transport. Horses carried the mail. We relied very heavily upon the horse. Horses were and are help mates and companions to our families. Horses still fulfill roles that are very important to our lives. Horses were, and are, the main stay to millions of families in this great nation. America is a nation of “horse people”. You do not have to be “a horse person” to know that the slaughter of our horses to fill foreign dinner plates is WRONG. You need not have studied the politics of this issue to know that the results of the campaign to ban horse slaughter will clearly point to who in our Senate is without a conscience. The politics of this unholy practice has muddied the waters. The bottom line has to do with money. There have been campaign contributions and lobbyists (family members of some of our politicians) paid to lobby on the behalf of foreign slaughter house owners. Whose soul is for sale and whose soul is not for sale? Keep an eye to the Senate and voting records, for an answer to this question. For those who support our horses, I say this Senator has behaved correctly and has demonstrated that he/she has a conscience. It is a decision that will be based on morals, in accordance with the common standard of justice. To save American horses from the horror of slaughter is right and it is just and will be a moral victory for America. It will encourage goodness and decency, giving guidance on how to behave honorably. A VICTORY FOR AMERICAN HORSES will be good by accepted standards. It will be RIGHT, as judged by the standards of the average person or society at large. It will demonstrate to the good people of this great nation who, in our Senate, is able to distinguish right from wrong and to make decisions based on that knowledge. This much is a moral certainty. What our representatives in Washington must do is to take a long hard look that those who perpetuate horse slaughter. They are a thoughtless lot, not up to being honest “horse people”. They spew their bloody messages that are patently false and bring the wrath of the decent horsemen and women down upon their own heads. It would be a pity to be a horse in the hands of such people.

Respectfully,

Bonnie Oliver
West Virginia

Here is a list of organizations that are part of the Horse Welfare Coalition in opposition to S. 1915.

Adams County Colorado Commissioners’ Office
Agribusiness Association of Iowa
Agricultural and Food Transporters Conference/American Trucking Associations
Alabama Cattlemen’s Association
Alabama Pork Producers Association
Alabama Quarter Horse Association
Alaska State Quarter Horse Association
American Angus Association
American Association of Equine Practitioners
American Farm Bureau Federation
American Feed Industry Association
American Meat Institute
American Meat Science Association
American Paint Horse Association
American Quarter Horse Association
American Sheep Industry Association
American Society of Animal Science
American Veterinary Medical Association
Animal Health Institute
Animal Welfare Council
Arkansas Cattlemen’s Association
Arkansas Quarter Horse Association
Arizona Quarter Horse Association
Belgian Draft Horse Corporation of America
Biotechnology Industry Organization
California Cattlemen’s Association
California Farm Bureau
California Pork Producers Association
Colorado Cattlemen’s Association
Colorado Horse Council
Colorado Livestock Association
Colorado Outfitters Association
Colorado Department of Agriculture
Connecticut Quarter Horse Association
Crop Life America
Delaware Quarter Horse Association
Empire State Quarter Horse Association (New York)
Equine Nutrition and Physiology Society
Federation of Animal Science Societies
Feld Entertainment Inc.
Florida Cattlemen’s Association
Florida Horse Council
Florida Quarter Horse Association
Ft. Worth Zoos
Georgia Cattlemen’s Association
Georgia Quarter Horse Association
Grain & Feed Association of Illinois
Hawaii Quarter Horse Association
Horsemen’s Council of Illinois
Idaho Cattle Association
Idaho Quarter Horse Association
Illinois Beef Association
Illinois Department of Agriculture
Illinois Farm Bureau
Illinois Farmers Livestock Marketing Association
Illinois Pork Producers Association
Illinois Quarter Horse Association
Illinois Quarter Horse Racing Association
Independent Cattlemen’s Association of TX, Inc.
Indiana Beef Cattle Association
Indiana Grain & Feed Association
Indiana Quarter Horse Association
Indiana Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association
International Embryo Transfer Society
Iowa Cattlemen’s Association
Iowa Pork Producers Association
Iowa Quarter Horse Association
Kansas Grain & Feed Association
Kansas Livestock Association
Kansas Pork Association
Kansas Quarter Horse Association
Kansas Quarter Horse Racing Association
Kentucky Cattlemen’s Association
Kentucky Quarter Horse Association
Livestock Marketing Association
Louisiana Quarter Horse Association
Maine Quarter Horse Association
Maryland Cattlemen’s Association
Maryland State Quarter Horse Association
Massachusetts Quarter Horse Association
Masters of Foxhounds Association of North America
Michigan Agri-Business Association
Michigan Farm Bureau
Michigan Horse Council
Michigan Pork Producers Association
Michigan Quarter Horse Association
Michigan Department of Agriculture
Mid-America Horse Show Association
Minnesota Pork Producers Association
Minnesota Quarter Horse Association
Minnesota Quarter Horse Racing Association
Minnesota State Cattlemen’s Association
Mississippi Cattlemen’s Association
Mississippi Quarter Horse Association
Missouri Cattlemen’s Association
Missouri Equine Council, Inc.
Missouri Horse Council
Missouri Pork Producers Association
Missouri Quarter Horse Association
Montana Quarter Horse Association
Montana Stockgrowers Association
National Association of Counties
National Association of State Departments of Agriculture
National Cattlemen’s Beef Association
National Chicken Council
National Cutting Horse Association
National Farmers Union
National Grain & Feed Association
National High School Rodeo Association
National Milk Producers Federation
National Pork Producers Council
National Reining Horse Association
National Turkey Federation
Nebraska Cattlemen
Nebraska Pork Producers Association
Nevada Cattlemen’s Association
New Jersey Horse Council, Inc.
New Jersey Quarter Horse Association
New York State Horse Council, Inc.
New Mexico Cattle Growers’ Association
New Mexico Federal Lands Council
New Mexico Wool Growers, Inc.
North Carolina Cattlemen’s Association
North Carolina Department of Agriculture
North Carolina Farm Bureau
North Carolina Horse Council
North Carolina Pork Council
North Carolina Quarter Horse Association
North Dakota Quarter Horse Association
North Dakota Quarter Horse Racing Association
North Dakota Stockmen Association
Ohio Agribusiness Association
Ohio Cattlemen’s Association
Ohio Farm Bureau
Ohio Horsemen’s Council
Ohio Pork Producers Council
Ohio Quarter Horse Association
Ohio Department of Agriculture
Oklahoma Cattlemen’s Association
Oklahoma Grain & Feed Association
Oklahoma Pork Council
Oklahoma Quarter Horse Association
Oklahoma Quarter Horse Racing Association
Oregon Quarter Horse Association
Pacific Coast Quarter Horse Association
Palomino Breeders of America
Pennsylvania Farm Bureau
Pennsylvania Quarter Horse Association
Percheron Horse Association of America
Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association
Quarter Horse Association of Nebraska
Quarter Horse Racing Association of Indiana
Rocky Mountain Quarter Horse Association
South Carolina Quarter Horse Association
Southeastern Livestock Expo
South Dakota Cattlemen’s Association
South Dakota Quarter Horse Association
South Dakota Pork Producers Council
South Dakota Trucking Association
Tennessee Cattlemen’s Association
Tennessee Quarter Horse Association
Tennessee Walking Horse Association
Texas Farm Bureau
Texas Cattle Feeders Association
Texas Grain & Feed Association
Texas Horse Council
Texas Pork Producers Association
Texas Quarter Horse Association
Texas & Southwest Cattle Raisers Association
Texas Department of Agriculture
Texas Veterinary Medical Association
United Egg Producers
United Sioux Tribes of South Dakota
U.S. Animal Health Association
U.S. Export Meat Federation
Utah Cattlemen’s Association
Utah Pork Producers Council
Utah State Quarter Horse Association
Vermont Quarter Horse Association
Virginia Cattlemen’s Association
Virginia Farm Bureau
Virginia Department of Agriculture
Virginia State Horse Council
Virginia Pork Producers Council
Virginia Quarter Horse Association
Washington Cattlemen’s Association
Washington State Quarter Horse Association
West Virginia Quarter Horse Association
Wisconsin Horse Council
Wisconsin Pork Association
Wisconsin Quarter Horse Association
Wisconsin State Horse Council, Inc.
Wyoming Quarter Horse Association

Any semi-logical thought process will bring one to the conclusion that there is no way that each and every member of each and every group could really be the cruel, cold-hearted, non-ethical barbarians the anti-slaughter camp claims ANYONE that is pro-slaughter to be.

I will post this letter, from a Texas A & M professor, for your consideration:

Texas A&M University
March 18, 2003
College of Agriculture and Life Sciences
Department of Animal Science
Agriculture and Livestock Committee

Subject: HE 1324. Legalizing slaughter of horses in Texas

Dear Committee Members:

I am a professor of Animal Science at Texas A&M University, at College Station, TX. I received my B.S. degree at Cornell University and my M.S. and Ph.D. degrees at Virginia Tech University. I am also a Registered Professional Animal Scientist and a Diplomat of the American College of Applied Behavior Sciences.

I have been conducting behavior and stress related research on a wide range of species for over 25 years while at A&M. Much of my research has been on animal welfare-related issues and was stimulated by requests from moderate animal welfare groups. In 1986 the Animal Protection Institute honored me as their Humanitarian of the Year. My research on slaughter horses started in 1995 when the Humane Society of the United States asked me to conduct a study to help determine how long slaughter horses can be safely transported without incurring extreme dehydration. Since 1995 I have conducted numerous studies on issues related to the welfare of slaughter horses. Most of the research from those studies has been published in peer-reviewed scientific journals

My research on alleviating stress in slaughter horses has been funded by moderate animal welfare groups, foundations, and especially the USDA. The USDA APHIS’s Veterinary Services Division (the Division of USDA that is charged with developing the regulations for the transportation of slaughter horses) has been genuinely interested in obtaining objective information about the welfare of slaughter horses. The current USDA and Canadian regulations governing the commercial transport of horses to slaughter are largely based on the results of my research.

My research and experience with the horse slaughter industry has clearly indicated that the commercial slaughter of horses is not inherently detrimental to the welfare of horses. Also, the new USDA regulations governing the transport of slaughter horses just went into effect will help force unscrupulous dealers and shippers out of the business. Banning the commercial slaughter of horses in Texas, or otherwise harassing the slaughter plants that are in Texas to the point that they move to Mexico, can only be counterproductive to the welfare of horses. Because the people of Texas arc concerned about the welfare of horses, we need to encourage the two slaughter plants to remain in Texas so they can be closely watched and inspected. Transporting horses across the border into Mexico wi11 result in a very serious welfare problems for horses. Banning the export of horses from Texas to Mexico for slaughter will result in. many horses losing all monetary value. Since proper euthanasia and disposal of horses is costly the number of abandoned horses and starvation cases will rival the problem we currently have with dogs and cats. Animal shelters and horse rescue groups are already swamped and under funded.

If you have any questions about the slaughter horse industry or my research, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely

Dr. Ted H. Friend, Ph.D., PAS, Dpl. ACAA.BS
Professor of Animal Science
Department of Animal Science
2471 TAMU
Texas A&.M’ University
College Station, TX 77843

My one question………… Where are the horses to go, and who will pay for their care? I own 7 horses, 2 which are currently for sale at a price LOWER than it cost me to raise them, and no buyers. I will keep them until sold, but it will cost me I figure $700.00 a year to care for them, & they are healthy animals with no “issues”. Now that’s cheap because hay is inexpensive here compared to many areas. So you can double that in urban/drought areas. $700.00 X 90,000 = $63,000,000.00 . So double that next year, because there will be that many new horses coming down the line, and so on. Who will pass that collection plate? I love horses but would rather have an outlet for them rather than driving down the road & seeing them starving & neglected in some slop filled pen out behind the barn. (and yes,I have already seen this) So…….everyone who loves horses send me your address, so I can hook you up with a horse of your own.

Yet another letter expressing the continued need for horse slaughter in the United States:

I apologize for the little blurb…I hit post instead of paste! Aforementioned letter follows–another demonstration of why horse slaughter is necessary in the United States. Again, based on science, not emotion.

Cooperative Extension
University of California School of Veterinary Medicine
1 Shields Avenue
Davis, California 95616-8736
September 10, 2002

To whom it may concern:

An issue has come to my attention concerning the opinion of the Attorney General in the state of Texas on the 1949 state law prohibiting the sale and export of horsemeat for human consumption. The immediate enforcement of this “sleeping” legislation would definitely’ have a broad comprehensive detrimental impact on the two USDA inspected slaughter facilities for horses in the state of Texas. These facilities serve to ensure the health of the US horse population by serving as a mechanism for the humane disposal of horses determined to be carriers of pathogens which are potentially transmitted to other horses or the human population. These diseases include equine infectious anemia (Coggins test) and other blood vector diseases such as West Nile Virus and Lyme disease. Additionally, without slaughter facilities providing some economic return for horses no longer useful as work, competitive, breeding, or pleasure horses, the number of these neglected horses will increase and serve to broaden the reservoir base for the spread of many diseases.

Beltex Corporation in Fort Worth Texas has served as a cooperator in several USDA funded equine projects with the School of Veterinary Medicine at the University of California, Davis. Horses at Beltex have served as subjects for the collection of samples for physiological studies examining basic immunological and stress mechanisms and pathological processes. Access of these horses to veterinarians and researchers is essential in studies to control and monitor diseases which infect both humans and horses, along with building the knowledge base of basic physiology.

Although this letter represents my personal opinion and not that of the University of California, I urge you to consider the many factors that will be impacted by the closure of the equine processing facilities in Texas. These impacts include safeguarding human and horse health throughout the US, humane disposal of unwanted horses, and the many economic facets associated with their business on a community and state level.

Sincerely,

Carolyn L. Stull, M.S., PhD.

Dear Lori L,

How did you come to have seven horses that you cannot afford to take care of?

Bonnie Oliver

IT HAS BEEN LONG KNOWN THAT THE MOST NORTORIOUS OVER-BREEDERS, THE QUARTER HORSE PEOPLE, ARE ADAMANT ABOUT HOLDING ON TO THE RIGHT TO STRING THEIR “DINK HORSES” (ONE CATTLEMAN’S TERM – NOT MINE) UP BY A HIND LEG, TO SLIT THEIR THROATS AND BLEED THEM OUT. HOWEVER, THE RESPONSIBLE QUARTER HORSE BREEDERS ARE OPPOSED TO SLAUGHTER AND HAVE TAKEN ISSUE WITH THEIR BOARD, DUE TO THE ANNOUNCEENT THAT THE ASSOCIATION IS PRO-SLAUGTHER. IT IS NOT. NOT ALL VETS ARE PRO-SLAUGHTER. THE MAJORITY OF VETARNIANS ARE NOT PRO SLAUGHTER. MANY ARE HORSEMEN AND WOMEN. YOU THREW OUT A LIST THAT, IF THE MEMBERSHIP WERE POLLED TODAY, WOULD BE OVER WHELMINGLY OPPOSED TO HORSE SLAUGHTER. I AM UNIMPRESSED WITH YOUR DIATRIBES.
YOU HAVE TAKEN THE WRONG STAND. SLAUGHTER IS THE EXTREME BARBARISM. I AM NOT EMOTIONAL. I AM NOT A BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL. I DO KNOW RIGHT FROM WRONG. YOU CATER TO THE LOWEST IN THE HORSE WORLD. IN FACT, THE PROPONETS OF HORSE SLAUGHTER ARE NOT REALLY A PART OF THE MAIN STREAM. THE MAIN STREAM IS LARGELY UNAWARE THAT HORSE SLAUGHTER EXISTS. I HAVE BEEN A HORSE WOMAN MY ENTIRE LIFE AND ONLY IN RECENT MONTHS DID I LEARN OF THIS UNSPEAKABLE PRACTICE. THE PROPONENTS REPRESENT THE FRINGE ELEMENT, THOSE WHO ARE IRRESPONSIBLE, THOSE WHO ARE HORSE THIEVES AND HORSE SWINDLERS, THOSE WHO ARE KILLER BUYERS, SLAUGHTER HAULERS AND THE BUTCHERS OF HORSES. TAKE TO THE HIGH GROUND. ONLY THE MOST THOUGHTLESS IN THIS SOCIETY WOULD AGREE WITH YOU.

Just as a note, most of the organizations that you list copper, have -nothing- to do with horses. Most have to do with the food industry that have an interest in killing cattle, sheep, and turkey.

So, they are are concerned that if we ban horse slaughter for human consumption, when Americans don’t eat horse, that they are next.

As it pertains to horse slaughter, it’s apparent why they are pro-slaughter. Their own pocket-books. But yet, you, who profess to be a “horse woman” would take their word over other horse people?

We all know why. Money! You’d rather get the $175 for your horse, rather than spend it to humanely euthanize your animal.

Thank you for showing the true nature of your motives.

Diatribes?! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

You were obviously made very uncomfortable by being faced with coppermountain’s valid and scientifically based information–’oh, drat, people that have done actual research find horse slaughter to be acceptible, now where do I turn?’

Apparently, to the equivalent of YELLING! Wowee, your melodramatics and self-proclaimed sanctimonious ‘higher’ ethics sure does make your argument look more valid! Too bad you don’t have any facts to back up your reasoning. Do the anti-slaughter campaign a favor and stop posting.

Actually, horsey – why don’t you stop posting, since this was a blog about Willie Nelson who took in 11 horses bound for slaughter.

Go away and bask in your ignorance. As I said, “ignorance is bliss”.

It is a rare thing for someone to speak on behalf of slaughter that you must understand that you are going to have people of higher standards far more than ready to oppose you. One study shows that 49% of voters have vowed not to support a Senator who is pro-slaughter. This is a direct result of extraordinary opposition to this horrific end for horses. We send on one of the finest pieces written, concerning slaughter. Study it. Slaughter is about the very small minority who take advantage of the very small amount of money made from the butchering of horses. The entire scenario is highly distressing to thinking people. You leave us profoundly unimpressed by your lack of ethics.

Where Would All The Horses Go?
reprinted from THE BLOOD-HORSE
pp. 3492-3492, JUNE 28, 2003
by John Hettinger

When we started Blue Horse Charities a little over a year ago our aim was to save as many Thoroughbreds as possible from a bad end by creating awareness to the problem of slaughter (many owners simply had no idea when their horse was at risk) and by facilitating adoption. Then groups in several states started seeking to legislate an end to horse slaughter. Now, Congressman John L. Sweeney, chairman of the Congressional Horse Caucus, has introduced the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act (HR 857). It will be presented in the Senate by Sen. John Kerry very shortly. The main concern should be to keep Thoroughbreds from being mistreated.

We favor Congressman Sweeney’s bill [HR 857] and believe that the great majority of Thoroughbred owners feel a responsibility toward their horses and would never let them go to slaughter.

However, one way or another thousands of Thoroughbreds meet this end; many through a lack of awareness on the part of their owners, some through misrepresentations of those who buy them, and some through theft. There are those who are apologists for slaughter and wedded to the status quo. One of their most commonly heard arguments is “where would all the horses go? Our concern is to keep them from being mistreated.”

We believe these arguments to be mistaken, sometimes cynical, and occasionally surreal. We’d like to have a look at the arguments of the pro-slaughter forces from several points of view: I. STATISTICAL, II. LOGICAL, III. CULTURAL, and IV. from the point of view of the IMAGE of our industry. We will do this without pointing a finger at any group in our industry.

· I. STATISTICAL. The pro-slaughter forces seek to minimize the problem by stating that less than 1% of horses wind up being “processed” (their word). However, by making this (true) assertion, they show that their concern about “where would all the horses go?” is essentially bogus. The percentage of increase in the overall horse population would be extremely small. There were approximately 350,000 horses slaughtered in the United States in 1990. This was down to about 40,000 in 2002. Did this drastic reduction in the number of horses slaughtered result in dramatic increases in neglect and cruelty to horses? Certainly not; no one ever claimed that. As a matter of fact, between 1992 and 1993 the reduction in the number slaughtered was 79,000 (responding to market forces), twice the number which would be saved if slaughter ended completely tomorrow! The idea that a system that ceased to slaughter 79,000 horses in one year would face disastrous conditions if somewhat under 40,000 ceased to be slaughtered now is ludicrous. Another question asked is “what would be done with all these dead horses?” It is estimated that the horse population of the United States is about 6,900,000 and that somewhat less than .07% of these horses wind up in slaughterhouses annually. A simple answer to the question of what is to be done with them when they die is that this is a totally insignificant increase, and that they should be disposed of in the same way as the ones not presently sent to slaughter, the overwhelming majority of the horse population.

· II. LOGICAL. The claim of the pro-slaughter forces is that their concerns are humanitarian and unrelated to financial concerns. There are those who would disagree with them; for example, Pernell Hopkins, a police officer specializing in equine investigation, who for two years has monitored Pennsylvania horse sales that sell to slaughter. Officer Hopkins states in a letter published in the June 2002 edition of The Horse that slaughter encourages neglect, and that “Money is the only objective of selling horses to slaughter. Those of us in the trenches have seen enough.” (Emphasis supplied.) The logical proposition goes this way. We have a potential perpetrator (one who might abuse a horse) and a potential victim (the horse). The answer offered by the pro-slaughter forces is to kill the potential victim so that the potential perpetrator can’t perpetrate! Comments here are unnecessary. Thoroughbreds should be retired, adopted out, or euthanized… we must end the slaughter of horses.

The pro-slaughter argument that some people can’t afford euthanasia really doesn’t deserve much attention either. Anyone who believes that it is all right to use a horse until he is unable to be used any longer, and then plead that a humane end that costs less than one month’s board is an argument for the perpetuation of this truly horrific cruelty, will agree with them. There are laws on the books in every state whose aim is to protect animals from abuse. If potential abuse is the problem, we who care about horses should redouble our efforts to see that these laws are enforced.

· III. CULTURAL. How do we as an industry feel about our horses? Are we horse lovers? Are these animals, who work for us in one way or another throughout their entire lives, sensitive and capable of trust, courage, and generosity of spirit? Or are they fast cows without horns?

It is very common to see Thoroughbreds turned into personalities for promotional purposes, to increase the gate on a given day, for example. “Persimmon likes to have his picture taken”…”Calamity Jane knows when she’s won,” etc. We’ve all seen plenty of this kind of thing. We endow them with semi-human characteristics in print and on television when it suits our purposes… then we look the other way when bad things happen. Could this be called hypocritical? Do these animals have these endearing characteristics or don’t they? Eating horses is common sense in some cultures but has no place in ours. Almost all horse meat is sent abroad and both slaughter houses now operating in the U.S. are foreign owned. Is it right that we allow our horses to end this way (which involves several days of pain and terror) to supply meat to foreign countries? There are well known fairs which conduct race meets and allow rescue organizations access to their grounds to try and save some of them on the condition that they don’t talk about it. If they felt that what is going on was right would this be a condition of access to their grounds?

· IV. IMAGE. There are a lot of people in our industry working hard to put our sport on everyone’s “radar screen.” They must realize that if they are successful, all aspects of our sport will be better known and understood. The reaction of the American people, should they learn what is going on, is tacitly understood by these people and evidenced by their efforts to sweep it under the rug. The use of words “plants” (for slaughterhouses) and “processing” (for slaughter) attests to this. They should realize that the publicity this activity has garnered over the last couple of years is nothing compared to what is coming as the issue becomes understood by increasing numbers of people, and public relations professionals become involved. Conversely there is a tremendous public relations opportunity here for the Thoroughbred industry should it decide to take a leadership role in abolishing slaughter through legislation. This might have been considered a peripheral issue a couple of years ago, but this is no longer the case.

All the Thoroughbred auction houses in North America have weighed in. The board of the National Thoroughbred Racing Association, comprised of every national Thoroughbred organization, voted unanimously to support a ban on the slaughter of Thoroughbreds. And industry leaders such as Ted Bassett, Reiley McDonald, Gary Biszantz, Nadia Sanan, and Nick Zito have all come out definitively opposing horse slaughter, correctly labeling it “unconscionable,” “gruesome,” and “barbaric.” More recently the New Jersey Racing Commission, the New York Breeding and Development Fund, and, by unanimous vote of its trustees, the New York Racing Association, have specifically endorsed the American Horse Slaughter Prevention Act. We feel that the time has come for all of us in our industry who call ourselves horse lovers to take a leadership role and end this institutionalized cruelty.

Where would all the horses go? They would be retired, adopted out, or euthanized. We have no desire to point a finger at anybody or hurt anybody, but the lowest common denominator cannot be allowed to prevail any longer. We must end the slaughter of horses. The ever-expanding network of rescue agencies operated by horse lovers from coast to coast will put their shoulders to the wheel to make this work.

John Hettinger is a member of The Jockey Club, a trustee for the New York Racing Association, and a director of Fasig-Tipton Co. He formed Blue Horse Charities, which raises money for adoption and retirement programs through Fasig-Tipton sales. Owner of Akindale Farm in New York state, Hettinger was honored with a Special Eclipse Award in 2000

Marjorie, please go back and reread the list of organizations that opposes S.1915. It is not just made up of ‘food animal’ based groups. There are numerous horse associations, ranging from numerous breed associations (not just Quarter Horse groups), to science (such as biotechnical, nutritional, and physiological) organizations, zoo associations, Native American associations, and sport associations, animal health organizations, and state departments of agriculture.

Yes, the traditional ‘food animal’ based organizations do have a vested interest in this, because next on the proverbial chopping block will be the ability to slaughter those traditional food animals. The anti-horse slaughter groups are paving the way for animal rights extremists to go after the rest of animal agriculture. To not recognize that is terribly short-sighted.

I do not understand why horses are supposedly higher beings than are cattle, sheep, pigs, and chickens. Yes, horses have served man, but the horses did not do so of his own volition, just as cattle, sheep, pigs, and chickens don’t choose to serve man. Why the elevated status for the horse? The only reason man’s relationship with the horse has flourished is because of mankind, not in spite of mankind.

Yep, horses have served in wars, as mounts…and as food. During both World Wars, horse meat was fed to American soldiers and civilians alike.

It has been repeatedly stated that greed is NOT a factor in slaughtering horses, because the market value does not even pay the cost of hauling a horse to the sale in most instances. How can the accusations of greed continue? Unless a person lives close to a livestock auction, the cost of even hauling a horse to the sale is hard to justify.

The absolute sanctimony of the anti-slaughter faction knows no bounds. There has not been one *scientifically* sound argument from that side of the fence throughout the entire blog. Every argument is all about emotion, about having ‘higher standards’ and ‘better ethics,’ thinking they are better people.

The pro-slaughter camp is backed not only by true ethics where the horse as a species is concerned, but also by logic and science. Blind emotional fervor is not the same thing as well-supported, proven facts.

As for the 49% of voters that have vowed not to support a senator that is pro-slaughter, all I can say is thank God for the other 51%.

>>

I did not say I could not take care of them, I said I could not sell them for what I have put into them. I will keep them until I can find a “good” buyer for them, but last time it took a year to do it. I am just stating that unless someone has a LOT of money & space, many horses will be neglected to the point of starvation because their owners have no place to send them. There are so many people in my area who are putting up houses on 5 acre plots & “getting a horse for the kids” who have no clue as to the actual cost of maintaining them. And they go to auctions and pick up a cheap horse. Then they discover it costs $35 5 or 6 times a year to have their hooves trimmed,($100+ if you put shoes on) about $125 for shots,(depending on which you give) $40-$50 a year for worming, $8-$12 every couple of weeks for a #50 bag of grain, depending on type/location, $2-$12 for a bale of hay, again depending on location/type. And tack, and of course training. Many of these auction horses can become (and do, when the right person has them)great horses, but so many people have no clue as to how to train, and don’t want to spend the money for a trainer (which is $400-$700 per month in my area). So sometimes they get neglected,sometimes they just get fed & ignored, sometimes they go back to the auction. You folks who run rescues know this first hand. And anyone who says they don’t know that when you take a horse to auction that they could go for meat has not been around horses very long. So my question still is, who is going to pay for the care of all the unwanted horses if there is nowhere else for them to go? And I mean no offense, but those who have never actually owned & cared for a horse yourself, maybe shouldn’t be voicing “expert” opinions. Just my 2 cents.

What follows is the exact text of the House Committee on Agriculture’s findings about HR 503/S 1915.

It is customary when submitting a report on a committee’s legislative action to the full House to describe for the benefit of Members and to document the legislative history, a summary of the purpose and need for the legislation under consideration. In the case of H.R. 503, this is a particularly challenging task since the purpose appears to be nothing more than ameliorating the emotional tirade of the extreme animal rights movement; and the need is, well to be blunt, there simply is no need for this legislation.

H.R. 503, if adopted, would amend the Horse Protection Act to prohibit the shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, processing, purchasing, selling, or donation of horses and other equines to be slaughtered for human consumption, and for other purposes. Note that the Congressional proponents do not seem to have a problem if the horse is slaughtered and disposed of in a landfill, or if the meat from the horse is used in animal feed. They only seem to be focused on outlawing the cultural and ethnic practice prevalent in communities in the United States and around the world of consuming horsemeat.

As the Committee on Agriculture heard in testimony from the veterinary medical community, specialists in equine medicine, and other horse and livestock associations, this legislation has far-reaching implications for the entire animal agriculture community.

As stated previously, H.R. 503 is part of a larger agenda for the animal rights activists, an agenda against all of animal agriculture. The proponents of H.R. 503 are not engaged in a public policy discussion; they are engaged in a public relations campaign. They have the bumper stickers, the celebrities and the sound bites. They do not have facts.

The House Committee on Agriculture and by extension the full House of Representatives has the duty to be guided by sound fact and reason in order to responsibly represent farmers, ranchers, agribusinesses and horse owners. As evidenced by the near unanimous rejection of this legislation, the Committee is concerned that if enacted, this bill would negatively impact the health and welfare of horses across the country.

H.R. 503 does not address the underlying issue of unwanted horses in the U.S. It contributes to the problem. As a public policy matter, this issue should be about what is the best approach for the humane treatment of horses. Right now, the only federally regulated transportation and euthanasia of horses are the programs that this bill seeks to abolish. Ironically, government supervision of humane treatment of horses would be the first casualty of H.R. 503.

If the true purpose of this legislation were to provide for humane treatment of horses, as the proponents say, then the bill would address the issue of the fate of the hundreds of thousands of horses it affects. If the bill were enacted as written, within the first 6 years there would be an estimated 272,000 additional unwanted horses. The cost of maintaining these horses has been conservatively estimated at between $3 and $4 billion. Several organizations have testified that there are approximately 6,000 stalls available nationwide for unwanted horses in rescue retirement facilities. This obviously does not even scratch the surface of what will be needed if H.R. 503 is enacted.

If H.R. 503 were to be enacted and euthanasia for human consumption is prohibited, the Committee questions what would be done with the potentially tens of thousands of extra horse carcasses produced each year. All States regulate the disposal of animal carcasses. Local governments already grapple with the problem of unwanted dogs and cats and their disposal. Horses are on average 50 times larger animals. There will be tremendous difficulty for many local governments to properly dispose of carcasses of euthanized horses. It will be expensive and will create environmental and wildlife concerns. None of which seems to have raised the slightest nod of concern from the proponents of this legislation.

In a hearing before the Committee on Agriculture to review this legislation, some very important questions were considered. These included: What do we do to solve the problem of unwanted horses in America? What are the rights of individuals to decide what to do with their animals? What are the implications for other livestock sectors if we ban humane slaughter for one species? Why would the Federal Government put a legitimate business, and in effect thousands of people, out of work? What will happen to the thousands of horses that are shipped to slaughter plants in other countries?

Make no mistake about it: this bill will not stop the export of U.S. horses to other countries for slaughter.

H.R. 503 provides no mechanism to ensure owners do not abandon horses, thus compelling the Congress to consider who will deal with the abandoned, starving horses whose owners lack the ability to care for them? Since the proponents offer no solutions, it is incumbent upon the Congress to consider the impact on States and counties that have a statutory obligation to deal with unwanted animals. An answer must be given to the question of how States and counties will cope with the unintended consequence of abandoned horses left on their doorstep.

One scenario that proponents like to discuss is the option of sending the 90,000 or so unwanted horses every year to rescue sanctuaries. If this were to be considered a legitimate option, we must first ask who is going to ensure that there is enough space, money, and expertise to properly care for hundreds of thousands of animals that can easily live to 30 years of age? Who is going to pay for that? Who is going to regulate these facilities?

With all of these questions left completely unanswered in the hearing record, we must ask ourselves one final question: Why is Congress rushing to enact legislation that causes so many problems and solves none?

Even if the goal of this legislation was desirable, a premise rejected by the Agriculture Committee, this is not a bill that will improve the treatment of horses. Too little has been done to deal with the consequences of destroying a legitimate industry by government fiat.

If anything, H.R. 503 in its current form will lead to more suffering for the horses it purports to help. This draconian legislation will have far-reaching and significant detrimental effects for horses, horse owners and the larger agriculture sector.

Having accepted the responsibility to thoroughly review and explore all legislation and federal policies that affect the agriculture community, the Committee on Agriculture finds that this legislation is woefully inadequate, emotionally misguided, and fails to serve the best interest of the American horse, and horse owner.

Most of the people are horse owners/rescuers themselves and it’s totally wrong to “ass”ume that they are naive suburbanites. I watched the taped testimonies for the horse slaughger bill and saw that the AEVP vet was a small animal practitioner and the other old fart was directly connected to the Cattlemen’s Assn. (who by the way gets money for each horse slaughtered. Get the connection?). The supporters of the bill testified also and it is known that Texas A&M gets paid for every horse that is slaughtered as well (another connection perhaps?). However, the vet for the anti slaughter side did visit a horse slaughter plant unannounced and saw the atrocities there. This woman is an active vet dealing in horses to date. She testified about the so-called “humane” death that these horses suffered and called the pro slaughter proponents on all of their lies. Another of the pro slaughter support was the slaughter house manager and he lied through his teeth time and again and was called on his lies by the anti slaughter vet as were the other two vets. The AEVP board of directors calls the horse a “companion animal” in one breath and says that it’s ok to slaughter them in another by using a captive bolt gun. A bit of hypocracy there, huh? It is a known fact that the board of directors on both the AMVA and the AEVP have taken it upon themselves to speak for the mass membership without ever taking a poll of that same membership. It has become obvious that the AQHA has taken the pro slaughter stance but why not? They could care less what happens to the horses once they are registered and they have made their money from them. It is a known fact that QH’s are the highest number of horses sent to slaughter by any one group. Something to be real proud of huh? These pompous assed pro slaughter proponents continue to call anybody who is anti slaughter naive, suburbanites and try to give the impression that we do not know anything about horses the way they do. It seems to me that the only real thing that they do know is the almighty dollar bill. One post about the mare with the crooked leg. Such compassion to keep her because she throws good foals…. so very honorable, NOT! I’ve found the hard core pro slaughter proponents to be nothing more than ignorant, bullheaded louts who would sell their own grandmothers if they thought they could gain a buck. And to compare a horse to an inantimate object such as a car or your precious pickup truck.. that’s ridiculous… like comparing apples and potatoes. Doesn’t hold water. By the way, I work for Ford also and from polling people that I work with, slaughter is NOT acceptable in this country. Something else that irks me is the lie about the horse slaughter bill leading to other “food” animals being banned from slaughter. Ignorant using such a comparison and it’s not fooling anybody into believing it. Anybody who has been around horses as I have for the past 30 yrs., knows that slaughter is NOT an option. Property rights issues, tell that to the owners who are lamenting about their stolen horses (horse theft is on the rise and horse slaughter offers an easy dumping ground). Contrary to the lie told by the slaughter houses, stolen horses are slaughtered every day. Microchipped horses are not safe. Freeze branded horses are not safe. The slaughter house kills first and if the animal is suspected to be stolen, they keep the hide for the owner to identify should they be able to track their animal to the facility. Horses are scanned for microchips only to remove them so that they don’t taint the meat. As for keeping a horse including farrier and vet care, it’s not that expensive. To have a horse humanely euthanized and sent on to a rendering facility or buried on the property is not that cost prohibitive and is part of the cost of owning a horse. That bullhockey story about the horse that had an injury (a cut) and the fine of $4000 was just that. The news story in Texarkana is proof of that. They turned that driver loose to take the injured horses on to the slaughter house after a USDA inspector turned a blind eye to the situation. As for USDA inspections, I doubt that they spend much time on the floor especially since now they are paid on a fee per. This, to me, means that they work for the slaughter facility and do the bidding of that facility since they are their employers. Adopting a horse, people are doing this every day. Unwanted horses, a myth, killer buyers bid against horse people to obtain the horses and the slaughter plants still have to pay for the horses that they slaughter. There are lists of people who are looking for horses as I’ve seen posted. There are no horses lining the streets, starving and dying. The big Ag, oil and developers are directly responsible for the demise of the mustangs. It’s all about money.

To allude to Mr. Nelson’s personal habits, that’s his business and he has adopted horses which is more than I can say for the pro slaughter factor. What has the AQHA done for their own breed? At least the TB Association has set up facilities and other organizations to retrain, rehome and retire their horses. Foreign slaughter has deep pockets and they are paying people off (records prove this) so that they can continue their illicit industry. This isn’t about inhibiting cultural whims but who are THEY to come into our land, our country and dictate to us what is culturally acceptable or not? My message to the pro slaughter factor… get the facts straight and stop spreading your propaganda. This industry has to come to an end and people need to be responsible for the animals that they claim to care about and continue to breed. Education in horse ownership and breeding is necessary at this point, not slaughter. We claim to be civilized with impeccable moral values but some groups prove just how barbaric they really are and what moral hypocrits they are proving themselves to be.

I’ve owned horses since I was 7. Our first horse was a filly destined to go to the slaughter house. She was owned by some men who no longer could afford her upkeep after she was retired at age 3. She started in 10 races & won 6 of them. Since she was started at age 2, her front left knee gave out on her for racing. She was however not ever lame for a day while we owned her, which we did for 8 years. One would have thought that she won enough money to pay for her retirement. But no such luck.

My parents bought her for us for the price the slaughter house would have paid for her. She was an amazing horse & a great friend to especially my older sister.

I’ve owned over the years 10 horses. None of them have by me been sent to slaughter. None will.

I find horses to be beings with deep old souls, great heart & dedication to their owners.

I find slaughter cruel to any animal as slaughter in newer a human thing. In the case of a horse it’s given it’s heart to it’s owner who suddenly deserts it in a time of need, stress & fear. Unforgivable. I have yet to have to be present when any of my horses passes on. But when the day comes, I will be there for them. I’ve had to put dogs & cats down due to illness & old age. I do NOT desert them in their final moments. I stay, no matter how hard that is. That’s what a loving owner does.

I’m opposed to inhumane treatment of any being, be it a cow, pig, or goat etc.

I do understand slaughter of old, crippled, too abused for recovery horses. But I prefer that they’re humanly let go to a final place of rest. I do not approve of young & healthy horses being slaughtered inhumanly for their meat.

HUMANITY – the GREATEST FORCE OF DESTRUCTION THIS PLANET HAS EVER SEEN.

Thank You Willie Nelson & RS for making sure the readers of RS hear, be made aware & informed of this senseless destructive practice.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER – thanks for making sure more people KNOW.

Thanks, Lil

I want to address some of the information, or more to the point, misinformation related to the comments I’ve read here.

First of all, the captive bolt gun does not cause instant death, nor is it intended to. Death is by exsanguination. The captive bolt gun is merely intended to stun the horse so that it can be hoisted up, by a back leg, and bled out.

I am not sure which video BuckMitchFloyd was referring to, but I’d be happy to take a look at it. During the 80’s and 90’s I was in and out of most of the slaughter plants operating in the U.S. and may be able to identify which one he is referring to. Regardless, there have been several videos shot in the last few years which I have seen and were definitely done here. There are a couple of them that can be accessed on YouTube. Getting into a horse slaughter plant in America is now like getting in to Fort Knox, it would give one cause to wonder why. Surely they aren’t trying to hide anything.

As for the regulation of horses transported to slaughter, that poster obviously knows little of the USDA and the many issues that plague them. There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of violations of the Horse Transportation Act that go unreported every year. And the violations that do get reported are usually only because someone has made the USDA do their job.

For the record, I am not a suburbanite. I commute an hour to work each way. The town I live near has a population of about 300. Our school goes through the 8th grade. I grew up in a small town and my family raised, bred, bought and sold horses. I trained horses and showed many at the national and world level. My parents sold horses to killers and I just accepted it as part of the business. That is, until I visited a horse slaughter plant.

When I hear solid facts related to the number of horses that will be left to starve in the United States, then we can discuss what to do with them. The estimate of 6,000 spots available for rescue horses is just that, an estimate. There are 1000’s of people who rescue horses privately, they aren’t on a list, many do not have a 501(c)3 status. They are just people who love horses trying to do the right thing.

The ban on horse slaughter is not intended to be the first step in halting the slaughter of any other animal. We simply don’t raise horses for food and want them taken out of the equation. Furthermore, for those of you who think you have a right to do whatever you want to with your property, do you live in the United States? The government regulates many, many things. I live in a rural area, but have to get permits to build on my property. I have a truck that will go 100 mph, but I can’t drive it that fast. Municipalities regulate what kind of dogs you can or can’t own, how many you can own and puppy mills are illegal just about everywhere.

I am on the Board of the equine council of the state in which I live. Prior to the hearings on HR503, we polled our Board on whether or not to support the bill. The quorum voted to send a letter in opposition to HR503. Although, I was not the only one to vote against sending that letter, I believe I was the only one who had been inside a horse slaughter plant. My point is, that while many “organizations” may be against the ban on slaughter, the individual members do support HR503.

Thank you, Terri Lil Judd and Theresa – well said.

I’d like to address two points here, one being that it was stated that the transportation of horses to slaughter is “highly-regulated”. Just a few weeks ago, the USDA admitted that it does not even attempt to enforce those regulations and doesn’t have the budget to do so, if it wanted to.

In addition, to copper’s long list of mostly food processing supporters for slaughter. I’d like to give you a list of supporters against slaughter. Please note that most of these in this very long list, are horse organizations, not related to cattle, turkeys and sheep.

National Horse Industry Organizations
The American Holsteiner Horse Association, Inc.
The American Sulphur Horse Association
American Indian Horse Registry
Blue Horse Charities
Churchill Downs Incorporated
Eaton & Thorne
Eaton Sales, Inc.
Fasig-Tipton Company, Inc.
Hambletonian Society, Inc.
Horse Industry Partners
Hughs Management
International Pleasure Walking Horse Registry
Keeneland Association Inc.
Magna Entertainment Corp.
National Show Horse Registry
National Steeplechase Association, Inc.
National Thoroughbred Racing Association
New Jersey Racing Commission
New Jersey Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association
New York Racing Association
New York State Thoroughbred Racing and Development Fund Corporation
New York Thoroughbred Breeders, Inc.
Ocala Breeder’s Sales Company (OBS)
Palomino Horse Association, Int.
Racetrack Chaplaincy of America
Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau
Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation
United States Eventing Association

Horse Industry Leaders
Josephine Abercrombie – Owner, Pin Oak Stud
Joe L. Allbritton – Owner, Lazy Lane Farms, Inc.
Peggy Augustus – Owner, Keswick Farm
Niall and Stephanie Brennan – Niall Brennan Stables
Nadia Sanan Briggs – Padua Stables
Maggie O. Bryant – Locust Hill Farm
W. Cothran “Cot” Campbell – Dogwood Stables
Norman Casse – Chairman of the Ocala Breeder’s Sales Company (OBS)
Nick and Jaqui de Meric – Nick de Meric Bloodstock
Richard L. Duchossois – Chairman, Arlington Park
Tracy & Carol Farmer – Owners, Shadowlawn Farm
John Fort – Peachtree Racing Stable
John Gaines – the late founder of the Breeder’s Cup World Thoroughbred Championship
Gainesway Farm
GaWaNi Pony Boy
Randy Hartley – Hartley/De Renzo Thoroughbreds
Charles E. Hayward – President and CEO, New York Racing Association, Inc.
John Hettinger – Owner, Akindale Farm, Principal stockholder Fasig-Tipton Co, Inc., Chairman Emeritus Grayson-Jockey Club Research Foundation, Trustee NY Racing Association
Tom Meeker – Churchill Downs
Reiley McDonald – Partner, Eaton Sales
Herb and Ellen Moelis – Candyland Farm
Nick Nicholson – President and Chief Executive Officer, Keeneland Association
Madeline Paulson Pickens – Owner/Breeder
George Stout – National Cutting Horse Association Members Hall of Fame
Frank Stronach – CEO, Magna Entertainment
Dan and Jocelyn Sumerel – Sumerel Training and Therapy
Becky Thomas – Sequel Bloodstock
D.G. Van Clief, Jr. – NTRA Commissioner, CEO & Breeders’ Cup President
Walnut Hall Limited
Donna Ward
Marylou Whitney and John Hendrickson – owners of BIRDSTONE, 2004 Belmont Stakes winner
Russell Williams – VP, Hanover Shoe Farm

Kentucky Derby Winning Owners
Roy and Gretchen Jackson (BARBARO – 2006)
Jerry and Ann Moss (GIACOMO – 2005)
Patricia Chapman (SMARTY JONES – 2004)
Sackatoga Stable, Jack Knowlton, Managing Partner (FUNNY CIDE – 2003)
John and Debby Oxley (MONARCHOS – 2001)
Beverly Lewis (CHARISMATIC-1999, SILVER CHARM – 1997)
Mike Pegram (REAL QUIET – 1998)
William T. Young, Jr, Overbrook Farm LLC (GRINDSTONE – 1996)
Joseph and Eileen Cornacchia (GO FOR GIN – 1994, STRIKE THE GOLD – 1991)
Bill Condren (GO FOR GIN – 1994, STRIKE THE GOLD – 1991)
Mrs. Paul Mellon (SEA HERO – 1993)
Arthur and Staci Hancock (SUNDAY SILENCE – 1989, GATO DEL SOL – 1982)
Howard Keck, Jr. (FERDINAND – 1986)
Dell Hancock (SWALE – 1984)
Bert and Diana Firestone (GENUINE RISK – 1980)
Penny Chenery (SECRETARIAT – 1973, RIVA RIDGE – 1972)

Thoroughbred Trainers and Jockeys
Jerry Bailey – Hall of Fame Jockey
W.A. “Jimmy” Croll, Jr – Hall of Fame Trainer
Neil Drysdale – Hall of Fame Trainer
Julie Krone – Hall of Fame Jockey
Chris McCarron – Hall of Fame Jockey
Richard Mandella – Hall of Fame Trainer
Gary Stevens – Hall of Fame Jockey
Nick Zito – Two-time Kentucky Derby Winning and Hall of Fame Trainer

Horse Industry Press
Horse Connection Magazine
Living Legends Magazine
Natural Horse Magazine
The Gaited Horse
The United States Harness Writers Association

Political Leaders
The Honorable Robert J. Dole (R-KS), former US Senator
The Honorable Charles Grandison Rose, III (D-NC), former US Congressman
The Honorable James Albon “Jim” Mattox (D-TX) former US Congressman and Texas Attorney General

Corporate Leaders
Les Alexander – Owner, Houston Rockets
Gary Bisantz – Founder, Cobra Golf Clubs
Alex Campbell – Chairman, Shakertown & Triangle Foundation
Jess S. Jackson and Barbara R. Banke – Kendall-Jackson Wine Estates
Summerfield Johnston – Retired Chairman and CEO, Coca-Cola Enterprises
Robert McNair – Owner, The Houston Texans
Paul Oreffice – former Chairman Dow Chemical Co, Inc.
T. Boone Pickens – Founder and CEO, BPCapital
Leonard Rigio – Founder and CEO, Barnes & Noble
Satish Sanan – Chairman and CEO, Zavata, Inc.
Richard Santulli – Chairman, Net Jets
Barry Schwartz – Co-Founder, Calvin Klein Inc.
Nina DiSesa – Chairman, McCann Erickson New York
J.V. Shields – Chairman and CEO, Shields & Co., Wall Street, NYC
George Steinbrenner – Owner, New York Yankees
George Strawbridge – Private Investor
Stuart Subotnick – General Partner and Chief Operating Officer, Metro Media
Daniel V. Tully – Ex CEO Merrill, Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith
William Ziff – Ziff Brothers Investments, New York City

Celebrity Supporters
Shane Barbi-Wahl
Sia Barbi
Barbara Bosson
Bruce Boxleitner
Jeff Bridges
Christie Brinkley
Leonard Cohen
Rita Coolidge
Stewart Copeland
John Corbett
Alex Cord
Catherine Crier, Court TV
James Cromwell
Tony and Jill Curtis
Ellen DeGeneres
Ron Delsener – Ron Delsener Presents
Bo Derek
Clint Eastwood
Mike Epps
Will Estes
Shelley Fabares
Morgan Fairchild
Mike Farrell
Morgan Freeman
Kinky Friedman
Melissa Gilbert
Whoopi Goldberg
Jane Goodall, PhD.
Merv Griffin
Arlo Guthrie
Gene Hackman
Merle Haggard
Jack Hanna, Director Emeritus, Columbus Zoo and Aquarium, Columbus, Ohio
Daryl Hannah
Tess Harper
Tippi Hedren
Mariel Hemingway
Laura Hillenbrand – author of Seabiscuit
Shooter Jennings
George Jones
Ashley Judd
Toby Keith
Eddie Kilroy, Program Director, “Willie’s Place” XM 13
Carole King
Carson Kressley
Kris Kristofferson
Chief Arvol Looking Horse – 19th generation keeper of the White Buffalo Calf Pipe Bundle and holds the responsibility of spiritual leader among the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota People
George Lopez
Mrs. Roger (Mary) Miller
Steve Miller
Mary Tyler Moore
Sir Paul McCartney
Ali McGraw
Jesse & Joy McReynolds of Jim & Jesse and the Virginia Boys – Entertainer, Member of the Grand Ole Opry, Bluegrass Music legend
Connie Nelson – Outlaw Management
Willie Nelson
Olivia Newton-John
Alexandra Paul
The late Richard and Jennifer Lee Pryor
Bonnie Raitt
Keith Richards
Dale Robertson
Kid Rock
Theresa Russell
William Shatner
Paul Sorvino
Mira Sorvino
Loretta Swit
Bernie Taupin
Billy Bob Thornton
Rob Thomas
Marisol Thomas
John Trudell
Tanya Tucker
Shania Twain
Ken Wahl
Dwight Yoakam
National Humane Groups
American Horse Defense Fund
American Humane Association
American Sanctuary Association
The American Standardbred Adoption Program, Inc.
American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals
Animal Legal Defense Fund
Animal Protection Institute
Association of Veterinarians for Animal Rights
Doris Day Animal League
Episcopal Network for Animal Welfare
The Equestrian Society – United States
FOSH (Friends of Sound Horses)
The Fund for Animals
Habitat for Horses
Hooved Animal Humane Society
The Humane Society of the United States
IJA (Independent Judges Association)
The Progressive Animal Welfare Society
The National Humane Education Society
Society for Animal Protective Legislation
United Equine Foundation
United States Equine Sanctuary & Rescue
Wild Horse and Burro Freedom Alliance
World Society for the Protection of Animals

Alabama
The Peruvian Pasobilities Mounted Drill Team
Peruvian Drill and Trail Club

Arizona
Arizona Racing Commission
Conquistador Equine Rescue Program (In Defense of Animals)
Equine Voices Rescue & Sanctuary
Hacienda de los Milagros, Inc.
Humane Education Club – Barry Goldwater High School (Phoenix)
In Defense of Animals At Arizona State University (Student Organization)
Keepers of the Wild
Superstition Horse Ranch
Wildhorse Ranch Rescue

Arkansas
ARTEX Animal Welfare

California
California Equine Retirement Foundation
Cooper Racing (Carol Cooper) – Qtr Horse Breeding, Training and Layups
East Bay Animal Advocates
The Piedra Foundation
Return to Freedom, American Wild Horse Sanctuary
Tranquility Farm

Colorado
Aba Bahabas Arabians
Colorado Horse Rescue
Love Can’t Wait Pony Rescue
Lucky Three Ranch, Inc.
Nordquist Arabians
Political Voice for Animals
Project Equus

Connecticut
The Humane Organization Representing Suffering Equines (H.O.R.S.E.) of Connecticut, Inc.

Florida
Aloha Equestrian Center
Darlynn’s Darlins Inc.
Dreamfinder Farms, Inc.
Retirement Home for Horses
Saving Animals Via Education (S.A.V.E.)

Georgia
Big Sky Farm – Quarter Horse boarding and breeding facility
Georgia Equine Rescue League
Horse Rescue, Relief and Retirement Fund, Inc .
Magic Hollow Farms
STARS (Sound Trail And Rail Society, Inc.)

Idaho
Horse Haven Rescue
For the Love of Horses Rescue and Sanctuary

Illinois
Arlington Park Racecourse
Balmoral Park Racetrack
Blackberry Station Feed Store
Block Thoroughbred Farm
CANTER Illinois
Central Illinois Humane Society
Crosswinds Equine Rescue, Inc
Chicago Barn to Wire
Drexler Horse Transportation
Eastland Farm and Training Center
Fairberry Farm
Fairmount Park
Hawthorne National Racecourse
Hill ‘N Dale Farm
Horsin’ Around TV
Illinois Thoroughbred Horseman’s Association
Illinois Thoroughbred Breeders and Owners Foundation
Illinois Harness Horseman’s Association
Illinois Horseman’s Benevolent Protective Association
International Brotherhood of Teamsters Local 727
John Marshall Law School, Animal Law Society, Chicago, IL
Lazy Maple Equine Rescue
Manhatten Acres
Maywood Park Racetrack
Oak Tree Farm
Pam Kuhl Horse Transportation
RERUN Illinois
Shawnee Hills Farm
Three Way Farm
Top of the Hill Farm
Tower Farm

Indiana
Animal Protection Coalition
CANTOR of Indiana
Indiana Horse Rescue

Iowa
Iowa Racing and Gaming Commission

Kentucky
Blairs Equine Rescue
Bluegrass Equine Products, Inc.
Brandeis Student Animal Legal Defense Fund
DreamCatcher Stables, Inc.
Holly’s Place Animal Rescue
Home at Last animal sanctuary
Humane Society, A.L.L. of Madison County
Humane Society of Gallatin County
Kentucky Animal Relief Fund, Inc.
Kentucky Animal Rescue Alliance
The Kentucky Coalition for Animal Protection, Inc.
Kentucky Equine Humane Center
Lexington Humane Society
Marion Co. Humane Society, Inc.
Wolfrun Wildlife Refuge, Inc.
Woodstock Animal Foundation

Louisiana
The Coalition of Louisiana Animal Advocates

Maine
Barrel Race in Maine
Downeast Border Riders Saddle Club

Maryland
The American Quarter Horse Rescue Organization
Celtic Rein Equine Rescue & Sanctuary, Inc.
Heather Knisley Racing
Horsenet Horse Rescue
University of Maryland Equestrian Club

Massachusetts
Suffolk Downs

Michigan
Horses’ Haven
C.A.N.T.E.R Michigan

Minnesota
Midwest Horse Adoption Program
Misfit Acres Inc.
Save Our Souls Equine Rescue

Montana
Pryor Mountain Mustangs
WindDancer Foundation

Nevada
Miracle Horse Rescue, Inc.
Shiloh Horse Rescue and Sanctuary
Wild Horse Preservation League
Wild Horse Spirit, Ltd.

New Hampshire
Brown Lane Horse Farm
Independence Farm
Jill Lorenz – president, New Hampshire Horse Council
The Runnymede Stables

New Jersey
Save the Animals Foundation
Standardbred Retirement Foundation

New Mexico
A.N.N.A. – Animals Need No Abuse
Animal Protection of New Mexico
Independence Farm
Perfect Harmony Animal Rescue & Sanctuary
Walkin “N” Circles Equine Rescue Ranch
Wild Horse Observer’s Association (W.H.O.A.)

New York
Carpe Diem Equine Rescue, Inc. (NY, PA, NJ)
Equine Advocates, Inc.
Equine Rescue Resource, Inc.
Spring Farm CARES
Vassar Animal Rescue Coalition

North Carolina
Jus Linda’s Stables
North Carolina Equine Rescue League
Stillwater Farm

North Dakota
Tremont’s Pet Sitting Service
Ohio
Angels4horses Adoption-Placement Foundation
Living Legend Arabians
Serenity Horse Rescue
Sound Horse Organization of Ohio

Oklahoma
Angel Horse Rescue, Inc.
Greener Pastures Horse Rescue Foundation

Pennsylvania
Anima l Care and Welfare/SPCA
Another Chance 4 Horses
Bran Manor Equine Rescue & Placement
CANTOR Pennsylvania
Cozee Valee Farm
Eastern University Equestrian Team
Lost and Found Horse Rescue
OohMahNee Farm Animal Sanctuary
Pennsylvania SPCA
R.A.C.E Fund, Inc.

Rhode Island
Horse Play

South Carolina
Equus Sorority
Hollow Creek Farm Equine Rescue
Neverending Farms Horse Rescue
Palmetto Equine Awareness & Rescue League (P.E.A.R.L.®)

South Dakota
Helping Hands Equine Rehabilitation and Rescue

Texas
Animal Connection of Texas
Animal Sanctuary of the United States/Wild Animal Orphanage
Austin Zoo
Black Beauty Ranch
City of Flower Mound, TX
Common Ground Foundation
The Crows Nest Miniature Horse Farm
Greater Houston Horse Council
Lone Star Equine Rescue, Inc.
Lone Star Park
Madden Investigations
Oak Cliff Breeders
The Queenie Foundation
R-9 Ranch
Sound Horse Organization of Texas
Texans for Horses
SPCA of Texas
The Texas Federation of Humane Societies
Texas Humane Legislation Network
Texas EquuSearch Mounted Search and Recovery Team
Texas Thoroughbred Owners and Breeders Association
Utopia Animal Rescue Ranch
Wild Horse & Burro Refuge & Registry

Tennessee
Egyptian Cross Arabians
Misfit Ranch

Utah
Desert Duns Sulphur Horse Ranch
Sound Horse Organization of Utah

Virginia
Ches-N-Oak Farms
The Laughing Horse Sanctuary
Parkway Quarter Horse, Inc.
Virginia Thoroughbred Association
White Bird Appaloosa Horse Rescue – Stillwater Farm

Washington
Broken Oaks Equine Retirement Center

West Virginia
Santiburi Farm

Wisconsin
All God’s Creatures Equestrian Center
Animal Rescue and Farm Sanctuary
Midwest Horse Welfare Foundation, Inc.

Wyoming
Fair Dinkum Farm Equine Rescue
Wyoming Animal Network

i love the term “canned” hey coppermouth, you are about as poisonous as the snake you are named for. there is something called beuthanasia solution. do you know what that is? it figures you are a breeder, like there aren’t enough QH and Paints around. where i live, that’s all you see. no wonder these kill plants are thriving, thanx to people like you who love to fill their feedlots. i’ve been reading these comments and have never heard such stupidity..slaughter, necessary? there is nothing written in our constitution saying that brutalizing animals for profit is legal and just. i’m not getting into it cause i don’t have the patience. keep on breeding and overpopulating and feeding the hands of the greedy foreigners. all you agriculture know best. yep, if it ain’t perfect, let’s kill it. imagine if we felt that way about each other.

QUESTION THAT CRIES FOR AN ANSWER: How did the horse slaughter enthusiasts find their way into a wonderful story about Willie Nelson – HORSE HERO THAT HE IS – having rescued 11 horses? This seems extremely inappropriate. Let them go to a pro-slaughter list to discuss the murder of horses. God willing, soon they will be forced to behave responsibly or to slit their horses’ throats in their own barns, rather than asking someone else to do it in another State. I am a paramedic who has, and provides good care for, four horses – all boarded and one was a rescue. I work extra 24 hr shifts every month to be able to care for my horses. I realize that I am probably at my limit – unless another rescue comes along. If this happens, I’ll work MORE overtime shifts. Try it Copper.

miss copperhead, seems to me that you walk on all fours and are wearing your cowgirl hat on your backside. all i can say to the pro-killer people is when your time is up, i hope you will come face to face with St. Francis, and let Him judge you accordingly. sending your beloved horses to their brutal and tortuous end because you deem them “useless” warrants nothing but the same terrible end for Y’ALL!! may St. Francis never take His eyes from you

how y’all do’en…it’s great to be back. sorry I’ve been away for so long, but it looks like coppermoutioncowgirl has been doing a great job fending off irrational agruments with facts.

I hope the other side doesn’t mind me stoking the fire a bit there.

OK, now down to serious matters. I have 4 questions that I would like answered if possible.

Coppermoutions posting of the bill got me interested in what all happened with it. So i looked it up.

1. If the anti-slaughter side is so sure that horse slaughter is no longer needed and that there is enough room for these unwatned horses, then how come an amendment was blocked that would have had the USDA certify that there is enugh rescue space to take in these unwanted horses. It would seem to me that if there was indeed enough room for all these unwanted horses, they there should have been no problem in making sure. hmmm, interesting that it was blocked.
http://thomas.loc.gov /cgi-bin/bdquery/L?d109:./temp /~bdaieBi:1[1-2](Amendments_Fo r_H.R.503)&./temp/~bdIfxj

2. Since the ag committee in the house of reps held a hearing on the matter of horse slaughter…I was curious why no one supporting a ban on horse slaughter bothered to show up and testify? I mean, what better way to show your convictions then walking into the lion’s den.

3. The anti-slaughter side says that the captive bolt is inhuman. They also note that this bill will not prvent me from euthanising my horses if they need it. So if I use a captive bolt on my own horse in the back 40, is that inhuman? How about a bullet? They are both projectiles that enter the brian and render the animal brain dead. If i use either device I have assumed the cost of putting my animal down which is what it seems the anti-slaughter side wants. So now will I be villifyed for using these methods on my own land?

4. Final question…one argument that keeps getting tossed out for the prevention of horse slaughter is that horses have done so much for mankind. Well it can be argued that oxen have done more then horses. After all they were the beast of burden that pulled the wagons that carried the familes, goods or what ever else. They pulled the plows that broke the ground that allowed grain used for food to become cheap and plentiful. Millions of oxen are slaughtered every year, but nobody is calling for a slaughter ban on them.

I am asking these questions in all seriousness…please refrain from commenting on my morals or a rock…blah, blah, blah, or whatever other venom that will come out. jsut answeres please.

Coppermoutioncowgirl,

I have 1 quick question…you just put up a study from a wide assortment or college professors that are much smarter then the general public on the matter of econmics…do you think that the anti side will even bother to read it or will they just dimiss it as propaganda?

I mean they are smarter then everyone else and they know that no econmic hardhsip will come to anyone.

Hey homegrown! Glad I checked back in again–I was hoping someone else with some common sense might have logged in!

You are right, I am sure that my last post will be ignored, because it makes too much sense, and we can’t have that!

And, (as the anti-slaughter cheerleaders will claim), each and every one of those PhDs was probably paid off by the slaughter industry. Because, of course, there is no way that they could be speaking their own educated opinions!

(Sense the dripping sarcasm…..)

Please find an horse slaughter site. You are in the wrong place.
Take your money worries with you.
This issue has always been about dollars – dollars for the irresponsible under belly of the horse world. This includes you, Copper.

Whoa now Susan…don’t go putting the cart before the horse…isn’t good debate the basis of what we believe as Americans? I mean, I’d hate to look a gift horse in the mouth and pass up this chance to engage in debate.

anyone want to take a shot at my questions?

1. If the anti-slaughter side is so sure that horse slaughter is no longer needed and that there is enough room for these unwatned horses, then how come an amendment was blocked that would have had the USDA certify that there is enugh rescue space to take in these unwanted horses. It would seem to me that if there was indeed enough room for all these unwanted horses, they there should have been no problem in making sure. hmmm, interesting that it was blocked.
http://thomas.loc.gov /cgi-bin/bdquery/L?d109:./temp /~bdaieBi:1[1-2](Amendments_Fo r_H.R.503)&./temp/~bdIfxj

2. Since the ag committee in the house of reps held a hearing on the matter of horse slaughter…I was curious why no one supporting a ban on horse slaughter bothered to show up and testify? I mean, what better way to show your convictions then walking into the lion’s den.

3. The anti-slaughter side says that the captive bolt is inhuman. They also note that this bill will not prvent me from euthanising my horses if they need it. So if I use a captive bolt on my own horse in the back 40, is that inhuman? How about a bullet? They are both projectiles that enter the brian and render the animal brain dead. If i use either device I have assumed the cost of putting my animal down which is what it seems the anti-slaughter side wants. So now will I be villifyed for using these methods on my own land?

4. Final question…one argument that keeps getting tossed out for the prevention of horse slaughter is that horses have done so much for mankind. Well it can be argued that oxen have done more then horses. After all they were the beast of burden that pulled the wagons that carried the familes, goods or what ever else. They pulled the plows that broke the ground that allowed grain used for food to become cheap and plentiful. Millions of oxen are slaughtered every year, but nobody is calling for a slaughter ban on them.

and copper, it’s always good to talk to someone who knows what’s going on. Sorry I’ve been away, but we’ve been moving cattle off pasture and weaning calves.

Susan V, it is obvious that you have not bothered to read my previous posts that included not only the House Committee on Agriculture’s findings regarding the bill, but also a highly comprehensive study completed by PhDs in numerous fields of expertise that demonstrates the impact of banning horse slaughter on the big picture. Underbelly of the horse world? Really now!

I am sure all of you would be more comfortable if the pro-slaughter side would just leave the conversation and allow all of the ‘rescuers’ and ‘horse lovers’ to pat each other on the back about their ‘beautiful souls’ and elevated morals, and compare stories about the martyrdom they endure to support their adopted horses. (Oh yes, don’t forget…..and continually ignore the facts of the issue.)

homegrown, I wouldn’t worry too much about what we will have to do in our back 40s, since the anti-slaughter camp doesn’t really care if the horses die anyway, just as long as it is not in the public eye in a slaughterhouse, and in a way that humans benefit from (financially or nutritionally).

Don’t you know, horses can be abandoned, neglected, starved, left to live a life of chronic pain as long as little Timmy can go feed it carrots in the shelter, malnourished, shot, whatever–as long as humans don’t benefit from it in ANY way whatsoever?

It is funny how shortsighted the anti-slaughter camp is. I haven’t heard one thing about preparing for what will be necessary if the bill passes, such as new rescue facilities or funding to care for ‘rescued’ horses, much less truly good homes for 100,000 unwanted horses. But of course they reassure themselves with, ‘it will all be okay, homes will magically materialize for these animals!’

I still maintain that the majority of anti-slaughter supporters can’t personally take in a horse.

The ironic part is that, in the event the bill passes, many of the people that will be adopting these horses know nothing about what is required to own and care for a horse, and so the ‘rescued’ horses will face myriad problems BECAUSE of their uneducated, unready, and unable ‘rescuers.’

This is not intended for those who bring out a calculator and drone on about the need for horse slaughter, for they are the guilty breeders and those who benefit from the slaughter of horses. And they are the people who are massively despised by honest horse people. This is for like minded people who take care, in the horse world.

The action the Senate takes, concerning the passing of S 1915, will allow the American people an in-depth study of the morals of our Senators. Americans are over whelmingly opposed to horse slaughter. This speaks highly of our citizenry. Americans are horsekeepers. We hold the horse in high esteem. Horses helped to settle this country. Horses plowed the fields. Horses provided transport. Horses carried the mail. Horses helped to fight the Civil War. The life expectancy of a horse in battle was six months. We relied very heavily upon the horse. They were and are our partners in life. Horses were and are help mates and companions to our families. Horses continue to fulfill roles that are very important to our lives. Horses were, and are, the main stay to millions of families in this great nation. You need not be “a horse person” to know that the slaughter of our horses to top up foreign dinner plates is WRONG. You need not have studied the politics of this issue to know that the results of the campaign to ban horse slaughter will clearly point to whom in our Senate is without a conscience. The politics of this unholy practice has muddied the waters. The bottom line concerns money. There have been campaign contributions and lobbyists (family members of some of our politicians) paid to lobby on the behalf of foreign slaughter house owners. Whose soul is for sale and whose soul is not for sale? Keep an eye to the Senate and voting records, for an answer to this question. For those who support our horses, I say this Senator has behaved correctly and has demonstrated that he/she has a conscience. It is a decision that will be based on morals, in accordance with the common standard of justice. To save American horses from the horror of slaughter is right and it is just and will be a moral victory for America. It will encourage goodness and decency, giving guidance on how to behave honorably. A VICTORY FOR AMERICAN HORSES will be good by accepted standards. It will be RIGHT, as judged by the standards of the average person or society at large. It will demonstrate to the good people of this great nation who, in our Senate, is able to distinguish right from wrong and to make decisions based on that knowledge. This much is a moral certainty.

Respectfully,

Bonnie & Mike Oliver

copper,

I totally agree with you. While I do like the conviction of the anti-slaughter side, they are driven by pure emotion. Willie adopted 11 horses…great…but can he take in 11 more?

Why did the anti-slagher side oppose the amendment that Goodlatte had that would have certified there is enough space for unwanted horses to be taken in? Seems funny. If they would have allowed that to happen and it was proven that there is enough space for all these unwanted horses, we would nto even be hving this conservation.

And speaking of the House ag commiittee, it’s funny that the supporters of this bill did not even show up to coment in supposrt of it.

I thought laws in this country were supose to get passed that contained solution, not pass a bill then see what happens.

hey copper, i’m still waiing for soeone from the other side to step and answer my questions…think they will? Or will I jsut be called names?

Bonnie, exactly!!

The pro-slaughter people care only about their own pocketbooks, not about the horses who through their work, supply these people an income. It is a sorry state of affairs when a person goes that low to want to send their horses to a torturous death, so that they can make a few bucks.

Dirty business.

http://horses.gener itek.com/

one thing I would like to say about polls…when I was in colege (beleive it or not) I took a stats class and in one section we covered polls. I remeber the professor saying that rarly faith should be put into polls. Why you ask, because of the phrasing of the question. Questions can be phrased to draw out a wanted responce to reflact support for a certian answer.

good moring Marjorie, hope you didn’t miss me.

Would you liek to take a stab at teh 4 questions I posed to the anti-slaughter side in y previous post.

“Horses helped to settle this country. Horses plowed the fields. Horses provided transport. Horses carried the mail. Horses helped to fight the Civil War.”
________________________ ___-

So did the oxen, maybe even more so.

One more thing -

In the next few years I will be purchasing horses. I plan on doing my research to make certain that the person I am purchasing from, never sent their horses to slaugher and never supported horse slaughter.

I think that everyone should do the same.

“If you have men who will exclude any of God’s creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.” St. Francis of Assisi

Homegrown: I didn’t miss you, but we have given you so much information already and the resources to find your own answers.

If you really cared, you would find the answers yourself. You do not. You are simply baiting us and wasting our time.

Please scroll down to find all the sites that will answer your questions. I am not repeating them.

Hey Copper, after rereading all the post, Marjorie said we both have the morals of a rock…glad to know I keep good company in people like you.

Now to Marjorie…I have looked at all those sites many, many times and they DO NOT address my 4 questions…so I am asking YOU directly.

And trust me, if I wanted to bait you, I would have used much more inflammatory language.

1. Why did the anti-slaughter side block an amendment that would have proven if there was or was not enough shelter space? From the anti-slaughter side, it would appear that their is more then enough room…why not let it be proven.

2. Why did supporters of the anit-slaughter bill not show up at the House ag committee to state their case?

3. How is a captive bolt different froma bullet? From rereading the post and sites, it appears the anti-slaughter side has no problem with a bullet in the back 40.

4. With the anti-slaughter side playing the emotional card in that horses have done so much for man…why are we not offering the same protections to oxen?

Now I am curious if you or another person from the anti side will step up or like always I will receive the “go read the web sites” canned response because answering those questions truthfully will prove what kinda of hypocrits y’all are.

Hey, homegrown, you should have expected just another cop-out from the anti camp. I don’t think Marjorie or anyone else CAN answer your questions. I doubt you will ever get your very legitimate questions answered. Funny thing, oxen had crossed my mind as well. You make some great points!

I heard a quote once, although I don’t know who it was originally: “Words that carry no truth carry no sting.” Basically a fancy way of saying that the truth hurts. No wonder the anti-slaughter cheerleaders are so upset with our being in the conversation! Maybe we do have the morals of a rock—–solid, steady, and well-grounded, with years of development and science behind our arguments!

Hmmm, when Marjorie talks about purchasing horses, by mention of her plan to make sure whoever she buys a horse from has never sent a horse to slaughter, she alludes that she will be buying from one of the very breeders she has been so busy vilifying!! I find that absolutely hiliarious, ironic, hypocritical, and oh so telling about the entire anti-slaughter movement. She basically also admitted there, by her intent to buy horses in the future, that she hasn’t owned horses….and therefore has no business ranting and raving as if she knows something about them. But that is just the way I see it.

Oh, and homegrown, are you getting rich from slaughtering horses? I certainly am not. I make my money on cattle and the horses that I sell by private treaty. To listen to the anti camp, we are just rolling in the dough from slaughtering horses!! I have never made a living from slaughtering horses—proving, AGAIN, that the anti-camp’s argument of greed is just that much more ridiculous.

Marjorie said that she would NOT BUY A HORSE FROM ANYONE WHO HAD EVER SENT A HORSE TO SLAUGHTER. In my neck of the woods we call this lot horse killers, horse traders and horse swindlers. Since you do not appear to have learned much in life or about life – do at least learn to read.
Last word. Don’t have time for you. Too busy corresponding with our Senators.

Hey copper, your right, I don’t think I will ever get answers.

As far as money for my horses, of the ones that have been sold…I didn’t even make enough money to buy new tires for my trailer. But they did not go to waste, the meat protein went to food, the rest went to other useful needs for medical use, or things we use everyday. I guess the thought of not letting an animal go to waste escapes the anti slaughter crowd.

Copper and Homegrown –

What a disappointment it is to read your posts. . . but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. One of you had some questions related to the anti-slaughter folks and I will try to answer them to the best of my knowledge and ability.

1. If you are talking about the amendments that were tacked on to the bill in the Ag Committee, it is my understanding that we were not given the opportunity to respond at all. That amendment was just one of many that were tacked on prior to the amendment being sent to the floor. All of our Congressman voted on which would be the final version. There was no comment allowed from anyone outside the House.

2. The anti-slaughter folks were not invited to participate in the House Ag committee’s debate on the bill. They did invite several pro slaughter folks, but no one from the anti side had the opportunity to speak. It was very frustrating, to say the least.

3. A bullet provides instantaneous death, if properly administered. The captive bolt gun is intended to only stun the horse. Death is by exsanguination.

4. The people fighting to ban the slaughter of American horses have a special relationship with them. Certainly, if someone chose to ban the slaughter of oxen, they would be well within their rights. We simply want to save our horses. Horses who have been our partners, our friends and who we have benefited from, be it financial or emotional gain.

That being said, I have raised hogs, chickens and cattle for food. Generally, in the United States we do not raise equines for food.

If you are truly involved in the industry then you have to be aware of the killer buyers. They are at every sale and they make their living buying horses for $100 or $200 and then sell them to the kill plants by the pound. The double decker trailers used to haul these horses to slaughter are usually packed with 40 horses or more, making them a tidy little profit.

As far as the study you referred to, one of the main contributors was Texas A & M. They receive $2 for every horse slaughtered in the state of Texas. The last stats on slaughter numbers I saw indicated just over 100,000 horses slaughtered in the U.S. to date. If 2/3 of those horses are slaughtered in Texas, that is roughly $260,000 for them. In other words, their position on slaughter is not without motivation.

Theresa,

Thank you for trying to educate Homegrown and Copper. I’ve been trying for quite sometime and it became apparent that I was just being baited. I’ve also heard that Copper shows up on many anti-slaughter sites and posts the same sort of things.

These people are here to waste our time.

You are certainly very knowledgable and kind for trying.

If you have any interest, please take a look at: http://horses.generitek.com

H appy Thanksgiving to you,

Marjorie

The horse slaughter ban passed in the House and now the Senate is sitting on the bill because of pro-slaughter Senators acting on behalf of special interests. We need to flood our senators’ offices with calls asking them to pass this bill-the Senate operator number is 202 224 3121. 70% of Americans are against th slaughter of horses and we need our Senators to know that. We need to stop slaughtering an American icon on our own soil.

I had a thought….Marjorie, since you plan on getting horses sometime in the future (awww, how cute), and are hell bent against the slaughter of crippled, deformed, and dangerous horses, I thought it might be appropriate for me to offer to find, just for you, several such horses. Horses with crooked legs, chronic pain, and a true mean streak. (And, a caveat I am sure will be ignored…not all problems with horses are caused by humans. You need to stop getting your information from asinine Hollywood movies).

Anyway, I would be glad to track down some crippled, deformed horses for you. But, I am sure that in your infinite hypocrisy, you don’t want those kind of horses. You want the kind of horses that we breeders (that you have been so busy blindly villifying) raise. Sound, gentle, capable, beautiful animals. Huh, go figure.

THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF A BAN
ON THE HUMANE SLAUGHTER (PROCESSING)
OF HORSES
IN THE UNITED STATES
James J. Ahern, Ph.D.
Agribusiness Department, Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, California
David P. Anderson, Ph.D.
Department of Agricultural Economics, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
DeeVon Bailey, Ph.D.
Department of Economics, Utah State University, Logan, Utah
Lance A. Baker, Ph.D.
Department of Animal Sciences, West Texas A&M University, Canyon, Texas
W. Arden Colette, Ph.D.
Department of Agricultural Economics, West Texas A&M University, Canyon, Texas
J. Shannon Neibergs, Ph.D.
Department of Equine Business, University of Louisville, Louisville, Kentucky
Michael S. North, MBA
Department of Economics, Utah State University, Logan, Utah
Gary D. Potter, Ph.D., Professor Emeritus
Department of Animal Sciences, Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas
Carolyn L. Stull, Ph.D.
Veterinary Medicine Extension, University of California, Davis, California
Prepared for the:
Animal Welfare Council, Inc.
Colorado Springs, Colorado
http://www.animalwelfarecou ncil.org
May 15, 2006
2
Executive Summary
Federal legislation has been proposed to amend the Horse Protection Act to prohibit the
shipping, transporting, moving, delivering, receiving, possessing, purchasing, selling, or
donation of horses and other equines to be humanely slaughtered (processed) for human
consumption, and for other purposes. The intent of the legislation is to enact a ban in the
United States on processing horses for human consumption. The legislation does not provide
fiscal support that would likely be needed to respond to an ever increasing number of unwanted,
neglected, and abused horses. Often times horse neglect and abuse cases originate from a
lack of economic resources needed to adequately maintain a horse’s health. While everyone
fully supports and is committed to the humane treatment of all horses, there are unintended
consequences of banning horse processing.
The purpose of this paper is to identify and review the unintended consequences of a ban in the
United States on the processing of horses for human consumption:
1. The potential for a large number of abandoned or unwanted horses is substantial.
2. Public animal rescue facilities are currently saturated with unwanted horses. No funding
has been allocated to manage a large increase in horses that will likely become the
responsibility of these facilities.
3. Cost of maintaining unwanted horses accumulates over time:
􀀂 A conservative estimate of the total cost of caring for unwanted horses, based
upon 2005 statistics, is $220 million;
􀀂 Cumulative annual maintenance costs of otherwise processed horses, since the
year 2000, would have exceeded more than $513 million in 2005.
4. The export value of horse meat for human consumption was approximately $26 million.
A ban on processing would eliminate these annual revenues.
5. The option of rendering equine carcasses is decreasing. Private-land burial and
disposal in landfills have a negative impact on the environment.
6. The Bureau of Land Management’s Wild Horse and Burro Adoption Program may be
negatively impacted by a ban on horse processing. BLM horses and an increasing
number of unwanted horses will be competing for adoption homes.
Horse processing facilities offer a humane end-of-life option for approximately 1% of the United
States horse population. Tens of thousands of horses could be neglected or abandoned if a
processing ban were imposed.
The direct economic impact and future unintended–and currently unaccounted for–economic
impact of banning horse processing for human consumption are substantial. Proponents have
not addressed the inevitable costs of such a ban. Horse owners will realize a direct impact from
lower horse sale prices. Local and state governments will be adversely impacted by increased
costs of regulation and care of unwanted or neglected horses.
Copyright © 2006 by Animal Welfare Council, Inc.
3
Welfare Considerations of a Ban on Horse Processing
Numerous roles for horses exist in our society, from recreational to agricultural uses. Horses
are also owned for companionship or pleasure without the intention of contributing to the human
food supply. However, horses are considered livestock (U.S. Congress, 2002). Welfare
considerations for horses are problematic since society today expects the treatment and
standard of care for horses to be similar to what they have come to expect for family pets, such
as dogs and cats. This is true even though horses are often housed, fed, transported and
handled much like other livestock. Due to their large body size, required expertise in handling
and care, and the subsequent cost of care these expectations for horses may not be realistic.
In most communities, services and resources equivalent to that received by dogs and cats do
not currently exist for horses.
A difficult decision facing horse owners is when and how to end a horse’s life. It is the
responsibility of the owner, in consultation with the attending veterinarian, to ensure the horse’s
life ends painlessly and with minimal distress. The term euthanasia is derived from the Greek
terms “eu”, meaning good, and “thanatos,” meaning death. A good death is one that occurs
with minimal pain and at the appropriate time in the horse’s life as to prevent unnecessary pain
and suffering (Lenz, 2004).
The American Veterinary Medical Association reports two accepted methods of euthanasia for
horses:
1. Overdose of a barbiturate anesthesia, most commonly sodium pentobarbital,
administered with a sedative;
2. A physical method of euthanasia from a gunshot or penetrating captive bolt causing
trauma to the cerebral hemisphere and brainstem resulting in an immediate painless and
humane death.
The estimated United States horse population is 9.2 million (AHC, 2005); approximately 1% are
marketed annually to processing for human consumption. This sub-population of horses has
been characterized by several studies (Stull, 1999; McGee et al., 2006). Observational studies
show that “riding” horses were the majority of candidates for processing as opposed to draft or
“wild” horses (Table 1). In a survey, horses at processing plants had substantially poorer foot
and body condition and proved less sound than horses observed at sales facilities. These
characteristics demonstrate symptoms of lack of care and/or chronic pathological conditions.
These horses may experience chronic pain, lack adequate nutrition and vaccinations and suffer
from the absence of common care practices such as routine parasite or dental programs.
Processing plants in the United States assist in maintaining a level of horse welfare by
preventing old and/or unsound working/riding horses from further neglect or abuse (McGee et
al., 2001). Owners with economic constraints may not be able to provide long-term, quality
care. Thus, the horse’s health and welfare could be compromised or progress to a neglected
condition if a ban on horse processing were imposed.
Copyright © 2006 by Animal Welfare Council, Inc.
4
Table 1. Classification of Auction Horses* (McGee et. al. 2001)
Classification n= %
BLM Mustang (official freeze branded) 2 years,
rescue/adoption/retire ment facilities face a potentially prolonged, costly ownership period for
each horse they obtain.
The cost to maintain an unwanted horse until its natural death averages $2,340 per year per
horse (North et al., 2005). Using a conservative estimate of a useful life of 20 years, followed by
an 11 year retirement period, the average maintenance cost for retirement could be as high as
$25,740. This estimate does not include veterinary costs incurred if the horse is sick or injured.
For many individuals, maintaining the horse until natural death would be cost prohibitive.
For rescue/adoption/retirement facilities, the financial costs can, and will quickly, overcome the
capacity of the facility to meet the need of an increasing number of neglected, abandoned,
and/or unwanted horses. An anecdotal point of evidence is illustrated by the Indiana Horse
Rescue South which has been taking in abused and neglected horses since April 2005. The
rescue will have to close if it does not receive private financial support. “Since April the couple
have emptied their bank accounts into the not-for-profit organization, they said, going through
$30,000 in savings and an inheritance” (Hall, 2006).
Copyright © 2006 by Animal Welfare Council, Inc.
7
There are costs to the horse industry from a ban on horse processing. The most obvious is the
direct annual maintenance cost of unwanted horses that would have been disposed of through
processing. Table 2 presents the calculated annual and cumulative maintenance cost of horses
processed since the year 2000.
Table 2. Annual and Cumulative Maintenance Costs
Year Number Processed
Annual Maintenance
Cost $1
Cumulative Annual
Maintenance Cost $2
2000 47,703 111,625,020 n/a
2001 56,332 131,816,880 221,116,896
2002 41,490 97,086,600 273,980,117
2003 49,639 116,155,260 335,339,353
2004 65,779 153,922,860 422,194,343
20053 75,173 175,904,820 513,660,294
1 Annual maintenance cost per horse of $2,340.
2 Assumes an 80% survival rate per year; for example 32.8% of the number of horses processed in 2000 require a maintenance cost in 2005.
3 As of October 22, 2005.
The annual maintenance cost represents the cost to maintain the inventory of unwanted horses
that would otherwise be processed. Dependent on the number of horses processed, the annual
cost ranges from $97 million in 2002, to $175.9 million in 2005. The annual cost, however,
understates the total cost required, because horses that would have been processed in previous
years now remain in the horse population. Using a rough estimate that eighty percent of the
previous years’ horse inventory survived, the cumulative annual maintenance cost would have
exceeded $513 million dollars in 2005–the annual cost to maintain the horse inventory that
would have been disposed of through processing.
Environmental Impact of a Horse Processing Ban
A significant management issue is the safe and proper disposal of horse carcasses to eliminate
hazards to people or other animals. Recent disease outbreaks including Foot-and-Mouth
disease, Avian Influenza, exotic Newcastle disease, and Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy
(BSE; mad cow disease) have heightened the awareness of potential carcass disposal issues
and highlight the need for safe and economical methods for disposal of animal carcasses
(AVMA, 2004).
States and local regulations dictate potential carcass disposal methods:
1. Burial
2. Rendering
3. Disposal at a land fill
4. Incineration
5. Composting
6. Bio-digestion
Burial options are dictated by local restrictions concerning ground and surface water
contamination, distance restrictions from neighbors, proximity to previous burial sites and depth
of burial requirements. Due to the large size of a hole required to bury a horse, a backhoe
Copyright © 2006 by Animal Welfare Council, Inc.
8
tractor is needed and costs can range from $300 to more than $500. The burial option is
becoming increasingly restrictive due to negative environmental externalities created by
decomposing horse carcasses.
Rendering is becoming less available as an option for horse carcass disposal. Rendering
processes animal carcasses into usable proteins and fats that were once commonly used in
animal feeds. Disease concerns, primarily with BSE, have decreased the marketability of
rendered products. Rendering will not destroy the BSE prions and incinerators have to operate
at extremely high temperatures to effectively inactivate the prions (AVMA, 2004). Although
horses are not BSE carriers, it is the declining market in rendered products and thus the decline
in the number of rendering plants reduces options for horse carcass disposal. There is also
some concern with the presence of barbiturate residues, in rendered products, from chemically
euthanized horses. For the limited areas where rendering is a disposal option, the cost for the
rendering company to pick up the carcass ranges from $75 to $250 or more.
Disposal at landfills is also becoming increasingly difficult. Local regulations and the rules of the
individual firms operating the landfill dictate disposal options. Landfills that accept horse
carcasses will likely have a drop-off charge.
Incineration is a bio-secure method of carcass disposal, but it is costly. The cost to incinerate a
horse ranges from $600 to $2,000 depending on fuel costs (Lenz, 2004). Incinerators must
conform to air pollution regulations.
Composting horse carcasses is a disposal method currently being tested. Significant negative
environmental externalities can be generated from a composting site. These include potential
water contamination, nuisance odor from decaying carcasses, inadequate disease control, and
the required surface application of the end compost product which may not be pathogen free.
Composting is not likely to become a widespread option of carcass disposal.
An emerging technology is bio-digestion using alkaline hydrolysis to hydrolyze the animal
carcass into a sterile aqueous solution. Some veterinary colleges and animal research facilities
use this technology for carcass disposal. Although this is the most environmentally friendly and
bio-secure disposal option, it is not a widely available disposal option for most horse owners.
For areas where it is an option, it will likely have a substantial drop-off cost to dispose of the
carcass.
For all disposal methods, except for on-site burial, transportation of the horse carcass to the
disposal site creates issues pertaining to cost, disease transmission and potential exposure to
the public of deceased animals. The increasing cost and difficulty of carcass disposal is
emerging as a significant issue for horse owners with limited financial capacity to care for an
unwanted horse. Eliminating horse processing as an option for unwanted horses will increase
the demand on the already constrained methods of horse carcass disposal and creates a new
source of negative environmental externalities. Bio-digesters are few in number. Incinerators
are more common; however, increasing fuel costs eliminate this disposal option for many horse
owners. The availability of rendering as an option is decreasing. This leaves burial and landfills
as the most viable disposal option for low valued horses and creates a potential source of
negative environmental impact.
Copyright © 2006 by Animal Welfare Council, Inc.
9
Costs of Unwanted Horses: Loss of Value
The value of United States horsemeat sold for processing in 2002 was approximately $26
million (FATUS, 2003). A federal ban on processing horses for meat export will eliminate these
revenues completely. An even larger negative economic impact is that unwanted horses, which
in the past could have been sold for processing, will now become a cost to the horse owner as
he/she would be required to dispose of the horse in some other way. The loss in revenue is
now combined with an expense for disposal of the horse. The result is all horses become
somewhat less valuable. Eliminating the possibility of selling a horse for processing was
estimated to decrease the value by approximately $304 per horse (North et al., 2005). These
authors suggest if a processing ban is imposed, the annual decrease in value for horses that
would have been processed in the United States would be between $19.7 and $28.8 million.
These figures represent an extremely conservative estimate of the financial impact of a
processing ban, as they account only for the direct loss in revenues to horse owners who would
have sold their horses for processing. The figures do not represent the effect on horse prices in
general, or the cost of disposing of unwanted horses by some other method.
Potential Political Ramifications of Eliminating a Protein Source
Currently Provided by the U.S.
Worldwide production of horsemeat has grown to 720,000 metric tons (MT) in 2005, which is up
38% since 1990. This is equivalent to 4.7 million horses, up from 2.8 million horses in 1990. In
predominantly English speaking countries (such as the United States, Canada, United Kingdom,
etc.) the consumption of horse meat is minimal; a cultural tradition does not include horses as
food. Yet those countries are often exporters of horsemeat to non-Anglo countries that do
consume this protein source. The leading horsemeat consumers appear to be the Chinese,
who annually process an equivalent of 15% of the total United States horse population to
provide their population with protein (FAO Database, 2006).
Nutritionally, four ounces (4 oz) of horsemeat contains 20% greater protein than high quality
beef cuts (sirloin), 25% less fat, nearly 20% less sodium, double the iron and 1 mg less
cholesterol than a 4 oz serving of beef sirloin (ARS-USDA, 2006). When compared to ground
beef, horsemeat has 55% more protein, 25% less fat, 30% less cholesterol and 27% less
sodium.
Net importers are mostly non-Anglo populations (e.g., Japan, France, Italy, Mexico, and China).
Many European countries increased horsemeat consumption in the face of the BSE problems
with beef.
FAO-UN reports 2004 U.S. imports of horsemeat at zero, while we exported 12,000 MT. Thirtyone
(31) countries reporting horsemeat production increased their production by 500,000 horses
from 1997 to 2005. The leading producers of horsemeat are China, Mexico, Argentina and
Brazil. The first two have substantial ethnic populations in the United States. United States
horsemeat export volume peaked in 1989 (at 59,000 MT) coincident with the BSE scare. The
U.S. share of world exports is often less than 0.5%. Imports to the United States have been
less than 1% of our exports and by 2004 were 0, while our exports were 12,000 MT primarily to
Belgium and France (FAO – UN, 2006). Poland exported nearly the same level as the U.S. in
2004.
Copyright © 2006 by Animal Welfare Council, Inc.
10
Where does the horsemeat go? Japan was a big market in the early 1980s (52,000 MT/year)
but that has decreased to 6,000 to 8,000 MT. Recently, EU-15 imported 20 – 30% more
horsemeat during the early part of the BSE crisis (1987 – 1990) but has subsided to pre-BSE
levels of 107,000 MT in 2004. EU-15 wide imports are double their exports. In France
horsemeat imports have fallen from 57,000 MT in 1980 to 27,000 MT in 2004, while their importexport
ratio has fallen from 50% to 3 to 1. Italians are now importers of 22,000 MT of
horsemeat, nearly the level of France. Brazil and Argentina export more than 20,000 MT but
receive little in imports. The Dutch and Belgium-Luxemburg are big net importers, while Poland
is a major net exporter (11,000 MT).
Table 3. Major Horsemeat Production Countries 2005 Annual and World Totals
Country Animals Production in M Tons
Italy 213,000 48,000
Mexico 626,000 78,876
Kazakhstan 340,000 55,100
Kyrgyzstan 150,000 25,000
China 1,700,000 204,000
Brazil 162,000 21,200
Argentina 255,000 55,600
Mongolia 310,000 38,000
Worldwide 4,727,829 720,168
Source: FAO-UN Horticultural Database
If United States policy were to forbid selling to food commerce, there may be potential political
ramifications. Americans do not eat horsemeat, but others do. The largest consumption areas
are developing countries. Loss of U.S. horses as a protein source will deprive many less
fortunate and far older cultures than ours of a substantial food source.
Increase in Competition for the Wild Horse Adoption Program
An increased supply of low-value horses due to a processing ban will also create direct
competition with the Bureau of Land Management’s (BLM) National Wild Horse and Burro
Adoption Program. The BLM has been working diligently to create a viable adoption program
for BLM horses removed from national public lands. The BLM program will be negatively
impacted by the increased competition for adoption placement between BLM horses and
unwanted horses that would have otherwise been processed. This will increase the cost of the
BLM program if they have a larger inventory of BLM horses to maintain due to lower adoption
rates. The BLM enforces strict standards of care for horses in their control, whereas there are
few, if any, governmental regulations in place specifically for rescue/adoption/retirement
fa cilities.
11
Humane Handling at U.S. Processing Facilities is Highly Regulated
The United States is not a market for horsemeat for human consumption, nonetheless, humane
handling of processed horses is more likely to occur in the U.S. than many other countries. In
the U.S. the United States Department of Agriculture oversees horse processing. The likelihood
of imposing U.S. humane standards for animal treatment and handling on other countries
seems remote. Less wealthy nations will tolerate impositions to their operations if they have
market access (e.g. west Mexico, fresh fruits and vegetables. However, with horse processing,
the U.S., England, Ireland, Scotland, and Canada have no market opportunity to dissuade
practices–which we consider unfavorable–in the rest of the world. Humane processing
conditions can be imposed by the U.S. government only in the United States. Therefore, the
welfare of horses would be better served if processing occurred in the U.S. versus most other
countries.
Conclusion

The direct economic impact and future unintended–and currently unaccounted for– economic
impact of banning horse processing for human consumption are substantial. Proponents have
not addressed the inevitable costs of such a ban. Horse processing facilities offer a humane
option for approximately 1% of the United States horse population. Welfare of the horse is the
primary concern; tens of thousands of horses could be neglected or abandoned if a processing
ban were imposed. Local and state governments will also be adversely impacted as a result of
the proposed ban. Horse owners will feel a direct impact from lower horse sale prices. The
severe economic consequences of a ban on processing can not be ignored, and must be
addressed.
by Animal Welfare Council, Inc.

And so, I am so very happy that copper and homegrown have owned up to the fact that all they care about is “money”.

They’d rather send their horses to slaughter, just so they won’t have to worry about “humanely” euthanizing them. I guess the $200 in their pocket is better than in the vet’s pocket, even if the horses that worked their lives for them suffer a brutal and horrific death.

Thank you both for admitting it.

As someone else said in this thread, I do hope you both get to meet St. Francis.

I’ll thank you, Marjorie, to not put words in my mouth.

It is obivious from your last post that, not surprisingly, you have chosen to ignore all of my posts that would have demonstrated to a reasonably intelligent person that I am first and foremost, a horse lover.

I am well-educated regarding the animals I raise. I do not make my living sending horses to slaughter; I just believe that slaughter is a HUMANE and necessary practice for the excess of unwanted horses.

There are hungry people right here in the United States that rely on horse meat for subsistence. Don’t believe me? Research a little bit and you will find that one of the proposed amendments, known as the King of Iowa amendment, would have allowed for the continued consumption of horse meat by Native Americans and other groups.

Slaughtering horses is a matter of necessity, not of greed. It is a necessity because of horses that are crippled, in chronic pain, deformed, or mean.

If you will remember, I offered to find you some of those kind of horses since you plan on getting some horses in the future (again, how cute)…but of course you have also chosen to ignore it because you, once again, will not put your money where your mouth is. Oh no, you don’t want those broken, pathetic, hurting, dangerous creatures…you want the beautiful, sound, shiny, intelligent horses just like you see in the movies. You don’t want horses that you can’t ride or even pet. You don’t want to watch them suffer. Neither does anyone else–hence the necessity for slaughter.

Horses are NOT a higher being than are cows, sheep, or pigs. It is naive and shortsighted to think that banning horse slaughter won’t lead to the rest of the animal rights whackos (yes, I said the rest of) to go after the rest of animal agriculture.

The anti-slaughter group cannot back up any of their arguments with science. I have posted numerous reports with findings from PhDs in several fields–and not just from Texas A & M, to refute a point in a previous post.

What science shows regarding horse slaughter is proven truth, and the continual melodramatic ranting and raving will never have that advantage. I am sorry that bothers you so much, so to quote a great post I saw on another blog, “Just keep screaming and throwing feces like a good little monkey.”

And, FYI, while I am not Catholic, I am perfectly comfortable with whatever my status may be with St. Francis, as you should be with your status with St. Gildas.

(For those of you that don’t know, Gildas is the patron saint of idiots.)

It doesn’t matter at all to whom commonhorsesense.com is registered.

Commonhorsesense.com simply works to demonstrate that there are hundreds of organizations that oppose S 1915–and if someone is getting paid to do that, more power to them. It presents a great deal of information from PhDs in various fields of expertise, who know the banning of horse slaughter to be the disaster it is.

Among the multitude of organizations opposing S 1915 are horse organizations, science organizations, commerce organizations, cattle, sheep, and pig organizations. Obviously, this demonstrates that there are a multitude of industries that the passing of S 1915 would damage greatly. NOT just the horse slaughter industry, (which is necessary in and of itself.)

The horse industry should be thankful for commonhorsesense.com, no matter to whom it is registered. There need to be sites that do something to counter the cesspool of melodramatic anti-processing blather.

well i for one dont want to base my research on commonhorsesense
check this out…

http://www.equineweb design.com/horse-slaughter/in- the-press/20040620233215.html

Don’t worry everyone – we won’t be listening to the bantering of pro-slaughter people much longer. They are in the minority – thank God – for they are a sorry lot! I shudder to think that people with their mentality are co-habitating in our country with us. No wonder this country is so screwed up! They all need a lesson on what’s HUMANE – maybe a captive bolt to their own heads while their fighting for their lives and slipping on blood-soaked cement floors will do the trick!

Copper – get your facts straight on the horses that go to slaughter. My own 5 y.o. TB ex-racer was neither old, sick, crippled, or mean. He is a healthy, gentle animal just like you profess to raise. He was going to slaughter along with tens of thousands of other TBs just like him. Why? Greed, greed and more greed. You people make me sick. I have a wonderful, beautiful animal and he is so lucky to have someone like me than the likes of you and your kind. Don’t try to cram your false information on the kinds of horses that are slaughtered down people’s throats. They’re not buying it any longer – sorry! Besides – your precious slaughterhouses AREN’T supposed to take animals to slaughter that aren’t able to support themselves on all four limbs. Are you saying that they are? Then either you’re a liar – or they’re violating the law. Which is it? You people can’t decide!

Hey Cottonmouth cowgirl,

Are you and your meat industry friends who think anything with hooves should be made into meat on a platter denying the fact that horses are not regulated and can’t be regulated for veterninary medications that are banned from food animals?

You of course know, being a cowgirl, that the most popular equine anti-inflammatory / pain reliever – we know as Bute – is not approved for any use in food animals in this country and in the meat eating EU any horse that’s ever been given Bute in its lifetime is not to EVER enter the human food supply. That’s an EU law.

How do your vet buddies defend that? On the one hand they inject and prescribe a drug labeled “Do not use in horses intended for human consumption” every day of their careers while on the other hand support feeding this meat from these horses to foreign consumers. Ever have a vet administer Bute to your horse and then tell you to never allow it to be slaughtered for human consumption? Me either! No one has! But they’ll tell you if it’s a goat.

American horsemeat is: adulterated, a food safety issue, and in violation of US export laws because it is in conflict of the laws of the countries it’s exported to.

Being a horseowner, like myself, I assume you, as I, also have a tube or two of Bute paste in your refrigerator. American horsemeat would never pass FDA standards for consumption in this country, funny how we don’t seem to give a damn about foreign consumers. Not even the AVMA and FDA who by law are responsible for the safety of meat products regardless of who consumes them care.

Bute Burgers anyone? They’re tasty and carcinogenic.

Oh, Coppermouth, you gave me a wonderful Christmas present, thank you. Because, if YOU think I’m an idiot, that means that I’m not wading in the same pond scum as you.

I quote you:

I am well-educated regarding the animals I raise. I do not make my living sending horses to slaughter; I just believe that slaughter is a HUMANE and necessary practice for the excess of unwanted horses.

There are hungry people right here in the United States that rely on horse meat for subsistence. Don’t believe me? Research a little bit and you will find that one of the proposed amendments, known as the King of Iowa amendment, would have allowed for the continued consumption of horse meat by Native Americans and other groups. (end quote)

And I reply:

You should note that: Chief Arvol Looking Horse – 19th generation keeper of the White Buffalo Calf Pipe Bundle and holds the responsibility of spiritual leader among the Lakota, Dakota and Nakota People, is against horse slaughter. And you can find that at: http://www.horse-protection.or g/info.php?id=37, along with all the other organizations and individuals /against/ horse slaughter.

I do not know where you dig up your insignificant facts, nor do I care to know, but for whatever monetary reason you are against stopping this barbarism, please remember that you will someday have to account for your actions.

And “the idiot” as you call me, will remind you to at some point in your life to read a dictionary. Slaughter cannot be HUMANE! Humane slaughter is an oxymoron: Humane – having or showing compassion. Slaughter – the killing of a large number of humans or animals in a cruel and violent way.

Oh, and just in case: oxymoron – a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction.

I also find it interesting that the pig and cattle industry are so very against horse slaughter. I’ve been fighting to end this for over one year now and about six months ago, I just stopped eating beef because I couldn’t stand to look at it anymore. I think the cattle industry would be better off in the long run if they’d just let this ban go through. I’ve heard of others that have also stopped due to this fight and the longer it goes on, the more customers they will lose.

And in conclusion, I wish you all a happy holiday and know that we will succeed in 2007 to ban this horrific practice in the United States.

Marjorie

This should answer all of the pro-slaughter arguments. If it gets cut off for being too long, I’ll repost the rest in another comment.

—————————- ——–

Here is a post I sent to another list, copied in its entirety.

Hello, I’m a lurking member. I had to speak up regarding this issue. This is a rather lengthy email, I apologize ahead of time. It’s worth the read though.

A few years ago, I was on the pro-slaughter (necessary evil) side. I didn’t really have any facts to back up my stance, just a “gut” feeling about how I thought the industry worked. I decided to do some research so I could use logic and reason to counter the anti-slaughter arguments. My research sources included calls to the slaughter plants, economic data from the American Horse Council (a pro-slaughter organization), census data from the Government, stolen horse information from netposse.com, and a few others. By the time I was done (after more than a month of data gathering and number crunching), I realized that the anti-slaughter side was actually on the right track.

Forget about the emotional side for a moment, and consider the raw numbers and economics. Sure, things will be hard for a while, but what about the long term effects? If the bottom of the horse market falls out (which it has been doing slowly anyway), what will happen? In my estimation, show horses and other high priced horses should only be minimally effected. That class of horses does not rely on slaughter to set price trends. Their prices follow the demand for the sport/horse, trends in horses/sports, and the generally economy. The sector that will be hit the hardest are the low priced horses, poor quality horses, and “common” horses (those already in a saturated market).

So, what will happen when those horses lose value? Breeders who breed these horses will lose money, horse dealers/traders with this stock will lose money, auction houses will start loosing money. It may take a few breeding seasons, but eventually, these people will get tired of losing money. Breeders will sell out or switch to a better breed/type that will bring in money. Horse dealers/traders will do the same. Auction houses will have to start figuring out how to bring in better horses, different horses, or different “things” to sell. No one likes to lose money!!! Because of the falling prices, the average horse buyer will start demanding better quality for his/her money. It’s Toyota’s lovely “Trade Up” instinct. So, it’s only logical to think that sellers/breeders will follow the money and start breeding/selling better horses. Eventually, we will have a more stable horse market, see better prices, and see better quality horses being bred.

—————————- ———————

Here is a post I put on another forum regarding some questions. I thought it might be useful toward this discussion.

Abuse is a totally separate issue from slaughter. If you want tougher abuse laws and more enforcement, contact your State Legislators. Get them to pass tougher punishments and get after the local authorities to enforce the laws. You cannot complain if you do not try to do something about it.

The horses that would have gone to slaughter at auctions will be sold at auction, sold privately, donated to a rescue, donated to a theraputic riding center, donated to a vet school, donated to a zoo or big cat sancturary, or humanely euthanized.

Slaughter is going away. The people that frequent auctions (other than killer buyers) will still go to auctions. Prices for auction horses will go down, but the slaughter buyers buy a SMALL percentage of horses. Last year, 80,000 something horses were slaughtered. There are 9.2 MILLION horses in the USA, 3 million of those registered Quarter Horses. Barely 1% of the horse population was slaughtered.

To put things in perspective, the mortality rate for horses is 10%. That means that over 900,000 horses a year die from illness, injury, accident, or natural causes. Those 900,000 horses are burried, rendered, or incinerated. Only 10% of horses slaughtered are old, sick, injured, or otherwise unusbale. So, that means that only 8,000-10,000 more horses a year will need to be put down. The other 70,000 to 80,000 will be in fine shape to stay in the market.

Alive – Died – Would have been Slaughtered
9,200,000 – 900,000 – 90,000 (we’ll round it up to make it look
better)

That last number looks pretty insignificant when you consider the other two. At least, it does for someone who has taken classes in statistics and economics. The horse economy will be able to absorb those horses. They didn’t spring up from no where, they were already here.

As for the people employed by the slaughter industry. The truck drivers will drive for someone else. I see LOTS of trucks going down the road with “now hiring drivers” signs on them. The actual plant employees quit on a regular basis anyway (it is a VERY high turnover industry), so they’ll get jobs wherever they normally would. The plant owners are from Belgium (and rich), so I imagine they will go home or start up some other business. The USDA inspectors will still work for the USDA. They will just go on to inspect other slaughter facilities.

The REASON for slaughter is that people in Europe and Asia like to eat horses. That is it! There is NOTHING we can do about that. They are entitled to do what their culture finds acceptable. Slaughter does not control horse population and it is not needed to control horse prices. When horses were at their highest price, slaughter buyers still bought, and paid a premium price (up to $1 a pound on the hoof at one point). The ONLY way to stop horse slaughter is to make it illegal. Nothing you do about breeding or population control will effect the number of horses slaughtered.

The ONLY private sale horses that will be effected (price wise) are those of mediocre or low quality and those that are “common” (breeds or types that already have a saturated market). So, people breeding quality horses that are not in a saturated market and are currently selling for good prices should NOT be effected much. If you think you fall in this category, but you do end up having problems selling, then you were wrong and/or the market in general in your area is going down (as it has been for the last 5 or 6 years). Breeders that produce quality foals that have a good market, and they (the people) know how to properly market their foals, will survive. When things settle down, prices will go up, prices will be more stable, we will see better horses being bred (since that is where the money will be), and profits will be better than they have in the last 5 years.

I base these opinions and forecasts on my own knowledge of the slaughter industry (which is from independent research of ALL sources, I was pro-slaughter once upon a time), knowledge and experience on both the amature and professional side of the horse industry, and knowledge gained from taking courses at college in economics, statistics, philosophy, history, theory, and research methods. My opinions are not just pulled out of my rear end, or regurgitated from some worthless PETA web site (who I dispise by the way, PETA makes it hard for the rest of us to get through to people…).

—————————- –

Also, here is my Summary of all of the areas I researched. I do speak a little on the “emotional” side of things, but most information is “just the facts.”

In 2004 just under 66,000 horses were slaughtered here in the US for human consumption overseas (nearly 20,000 were exported live to Canada, Mexico, and Japan for slaughter). Their meat is exported to France, Belgium, Italy, and Japan. Horsemeat is generally considered a delicacy in these countries and is higher priced than beef. France alone consumed 300,000 horses in 2003, Italy 350,000 horses. The French numbers may change however. French government officials have suggested to stop the sale of horsemeat in restaurants due to health concerns. Many medications and topical treatments that are commonly use on horses are never to be used on animals intended for food. There is no withdrawal period. (the US numbers are from the USDA, the world numbers I got from a pro-slaughter news article written in 2004.)

The 2005 population of horses in the US is approximately 9.2 million horses (from the American Horse council’s census). The 66,000 slaughtered horses represents 0.7% of the total population. It looks like we’ll hit about 120,000 horses this year (2005), which is 1.3% of the total population. In 1990 over 315,000 horses were slaughtered in the US. The number of horses slaughtered has steadily dropped in the last 14 years while the number of foals being born has increased (with some major fluctuation of the number slaughtered). Drops in the number of horses slaughtered have been almost 80,000 a year at times. During those years we did not see a huge influx of “surplus” horses or a large drop in the price of horses. The number of horses slaughtered every year follows the demand for their meat, not the overall horse population. This illustrates the lack of a need for the slaughter industry to regulate horse population.
The American Horse Council estimates that 10% of the horse population dies every year, either by accident/injury, illness, or natural causes. That means 920,000 horses will die this year. That HUGE number (800,000+) of horses dying from ways other than slaughter has not createed a bad enviornmental impact, like the AMVA and AQHA would like you to think. So the number of horses that will die outnumbers those that will be slaughtered by 9:1. Statistically speaking, the number of horses slaughtered every year is insignificant. (the American Horse Council, which is an arguably pro- slaughter organization.)

California passed similar legislation in 1998. Since then, horse thefts have dropped almost 40% and continue to drop every year (based on police reports filed for stolen animals). Horse prices have remained steady. Abuse cases in California have not risen at all, and have declined in areas, while the national average is on the rise. Also, during the years that the Illinois slaughter facility was closed, abuse numbers leveled off and even began to fall. Ironically (or maybe not), Texas has the highest rate of horse abuse in the nation. This illustrates that ending slaughter will not encourage the mass neglect and abuse of horses.

The method of transporting horses to slaughter is inhumane. Horses often travel 36 hours or more without rest, food, or water in cramped double decker trailers (this is standard operating procedure, ask any killer buyer). These trailers are built for shorter animals such as cattle and pigs; most horses cannot lift their heads. Horses often slip and fall in these trailers arriving at the plants dead or severely crippled. Transportation reform laws were passed in 2002 but they have not done any good. Even proponents of slaughter like Dr. Friend of Texas A&M agree that the transportation of horses to slaughter is inhumane.

The slaughter itself is also inhumane. The chutes that hold the horses are made for cows. Horses are much more flexible with longer necks. They are also more intuitive than cows and have a skittish nature in stressful unfamiliar environments. They thrash about making the captive bolt operator’s job very difficult. The operator often has to stun a horse 3-4 times before rendering the horse unconscious. Sometimes the horse is slaughtered while still alive. USDA considers a 95% rate of unconsciousness before being butchered very acceptable. That means that 3,300 horses (at best) were slaughtered last year while they were still fully alive. The captive bolt gun is used to stun the horses. It’s like a spike on a leash. It is shot into the horse’s head and then retracts back in to the gun. It can be a humane method of a killing a horse (much like a well placed bullet), but the assembly line fashion that these horses are run through makes it nearly impossible.

Horses that go to slaughter are not generally old, sick, crippled, or dangerous. By the slaughter houses’ own records (Dallas Crown and Beltex in Texas) only 10% of horses killed are old, sick, injured, or otherwise “unusable”. Just like beef consumers, people who eat horse want young tender flesh. It’s just plain ridiculous to think that all of the horses being slaughtered are 25 yr. old nags who can barely walk… (this is based on what the actual slaughter plants record) Most horses going to slaughter are not “unwanted”, they are simply at the wrong auction at the wrong time.

And did you know that 40-50,000 horses are stolen in the USA every year? You can verify these statistics with Stolen Horse International, http://netposse.com. Did you know that the only reason the slaughter plants scan for microchips is to remove them so they do not contaminate the meat? This was testimony from plant workers.

One interesting statistic, roughly 70% of all horses that are slaughtered in the USA are quarter horses (stock-type, some with verifiable AQHA papers). This is fact based on the slaughter plants’ records. There are over 3 MILLION registered quarter horses in the USA.

There is no hard proof or evidence that stopping horse slaughter will cause a rise in abuse and neglect, thousands of unwanted horses lining the streets, or envoirnmental problems. BUT, there IS evidence to suggest that stopping horse slaughter will NOT cause these problems.

I suggest Copper go inside and witness the reactions of horses in the slaughter house.Especially when they are being zpped by the elctric prod into the stun box!! She could also see videos at http://www.kaufmanzoning.net/horsemea t/Is this a humane way? Nothing but propaganda!! They want young horses not the old.

Even American dog food producers will not use horsemeat in dog food!! Our horses are given many drugs that are banned in our meat animals!! Shame on our USDA!!

i quote copper
“It doesn’t matter at all to whom commonhorsesense.com is registered.”

maybe not to you but it definately matters to me.

for many years the tobacco companies had scientists, phd’s, doctors etc.. on their propmotional side – proclaiming there were no risks associated with smoking. My how times have changed!

and just recently – a link was found between the decline of premarin use and a deline in breast cancer.

again, i will research sites that don’t have blatantly obvious reasons to sway people to the pro-slaughter side.

for everything they claim pro-slaughter – there is research and statistics on many other sites from organizations dedicated to the welfare of horses.

you’ve received many of those links but choose to ignore the iformation and statistics, and reports, and vet testimonies.

commonhorses ense = a wolf in sheeps clothing.
i again send you to

http://www.equinewebdesign.com/ho rse-slaughter/in-the-press/200 40620233215.html

but doubt you will read it.

i leave it at that. i am done with you. writing you off as a good little monkey for the pro slaughter side.

back to willie..
view what copper calls neglected, abused, sick, old, cripple horses.

see willies rescued slaughterbound APHA horses here

http://www.habitatforhorses.o rg/whatsnew/willienelsonpress2 .html

read the story of how the auction was closed to the public and allowed only kill buyers in – unbeknownst to the estate.

thank you willie for proving to the world what types of horses the foreigners are really slaughtering.
Good luck with your beautiful, friendly, healthy, and now happy horses!

TO COPPERMOUNTAINCOWGIRL

I HAVE SAT HERE FOR ALL MOST 2 HOURS READING THIS STUFF. YOU MUST NOT HAVE TOO MUCH TO DO, AS FAR AS IT GOES IN TAKING CARE OF, TRAINING, AND HELP YOUR HORSES, BUT ALOT OF TIME TO SPEND ON THE COMPUTER PRO CLAIMMING THAT YOU LOVE HORSES AT THE SAME TIME SAYING HOW GREAT AND HOW WRONG IT WOULD BE TO STOP SLAUGHTERING THEM. IAM ABOUT SICK AND TRIED OF HEARING
1. WHAT IAM ANIMAL ACTIST
2. THAT IAM GOING TO TRY TO THE SLAUGHTER OF PIGS COWS AND SO FORTH.
3. THAT I LET EMOTION RULE OR GET IN THE WAY OF THINKING.

BEFORE I ANSWER THE ABOVE WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW COPPER MOUTH YOU ARE NO LOVER OF HORSES. YOU MAY LOVE THE MONEY THEY BRING YOU AND THE LIFE YOU WANT TO LIVE, BUT YOU ARE NO LOVER OF HORSES AND ANY ANIMAL, OR ANYTHING REALLY.
1. IAM NOT AN ANIMAL ACTIST, IAM A HUMAN BEING WITH A MIND, A HEART AND COMPASION FOR LIFE. YOU TELL ONE THING THAT YOU DO OR SAY, WEATHER IT BEING MAKING BUSINES CHOICES OR RANNING THE COUNTRY, WHERE EMOTIONS DON’T COME INTO PLAY???? EVERYTHING THAT WE DO INVOLES EMOTIONS. BEING HERE AND RESPONDING TO THIS IS ALL EMOTIONS NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU ARE ON.
2. I EAT STEAK AND LOVE IT AND HAVE NO PLANS ON STOPPING.
3. I CLEARED THAT UP IN 2
THE KILLING OF AMERICAN HORSES IS NOT HUMANE AND ANY ON THAT SAYS IT IS, IS NOT HUMAN!!!! WE ARE GOING TO GET THIS STOP.

OH whinny whinny! I am an anti-slaughter advocate….whinny whinny. I think I will go masturbate while I stare at my Hidalgo poster. WHINNY!!!

there are too many horses in this country. this excess has occurred b/c we have overbred the horse for our own pleasure. We now have an ocean of horses before us and can’t figure out what to do about it. We need to stop irresponsible overbreeding-period. if there are not that many horses around, they will be more valuable and not as likely to go to slaughter.

Processing* Slaughtering
Horse slaughter is a death fraught with terror, pain, and suffering. Horses are shipped for more than 24 hours at a time in crowded double-decker cattle trucks without food, water, or rest. Pregnant mares, foals, injured horses, and even blind horses must endure the journey. Once they arrive, their suffering intensifies—undercover footage obtained by The Humane Society of the United States demonstrates that fully conscious horses are shackled and hoisted by the rear leg and have their throats slit. Because horses are skittish by nature, it is particularly difficult to align them correctly and ensure the captive bolt stun gun renders them unconscious

***”Euthanasia” means a gentle, painless death provided in order to prevent suffering.Unwanted horses should be humanely euthanized by a licensed veterinarian when no other option exists, rather than placed on a truck, cruelly transported, and then butchered. Most horse owners already use humane euthanasia for their older or ill horses.
Which way would you rather die ? Which way would you rather your dog or cat die ?
AMERICANS don’t eat horse meat ! It is NOT OUR culture that eats horse meat.
Why should OUR horses be slaughtered so their meat can be sent to Europe to be eaten as a DELICASY as Americans will buy high priced steaks.OUR horses are not feeding “staving “people in DARFAR.
Should we go to India and open a SLAUGHTER house for THEIR cows and tell them they have no rights and can’t stop us ?
The slaughter of our horses is against the will of” WE THE PEOPLE” of the United States ?

“The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated”
-Mohandas Gandhi

Horse slaughter WILL end in 2007! Despite the nonsense talk of the pro-slaughter people … Americans as a whole can determine right from wrong and we don’t care what nonsense spews from the simple minded. Look at Willie’s horses, alone, and you can decide if they fit the “classic” description of horses meant for slaughter … old, sick, lame or mean. Just look at luvmyhorsey’s post and you can see that general attitude for what its worth. We will end the senseless slaughter of our horses. And, yes, I agree that irresponsible breeding has a great deal to do with the problem.

Geeee” Im Proud we have Willie for a spokesperson for Responsible Horse Owners and The Pro slaughter side can have Satan He has clearly stated his knowledge in horse slaughter and Taste. BigMouth and HomegrownIdiot can follow his lead. The rest of the anti dont even waste your time here. The site Commonhorsesense is really commonhorsesh..

WHOA THERE!! I heard about the verbal war waging at this site and thought I would check it out. I will say that I don’t own horses, that I have only tried to understand where both sides are coming from.

The problem seems to be that the pro-slaughter side sees horses as livestock (just like cows, pigs, and sheep), and the anti-slaughter side sees them as humanized, anthromorphized enlightened beings that are closer in type to people than to other four legged critters with hooves.

I don’t know folks, but it seems that if there are so many organizations against banning horse slaughter, it merits some objectivity and not just emotion. Which, honestly is all the anti side seems to have in their favor.

I really see what the pro-slaughter side means about banning slaughter opening a can of worms for animal rights people to go after other more traditional meat animals. Why is it okay to slaughter cows and pigs and sheep but not horses? Really, I don’t understand the difference. Granted, I am a city kid. Can anyone shed light on this?

Here we go again…The very “few” (a.k.a. minority) pro-slaughter folks have exposed themseves as “sub-humans” once again. I am confident the same “handful” roam from forum to forum so they can “spew” their “garbage” that they will copy and paste from the biased, “lawyer-owned” site: “www.commonhorsesense.com.” You must be mistaking the anti-slaughter folks (a.k.a. “humans”) people as those without intelligence or understanding.

You have been asking for facts? A few statistics? I have got a few of those for you. Read up…

I preface this long post by saying that number you keep quoting regarding all those “unwanted” horses – is highly skewed…Let’s take out the “supply and demand” equation in this matter; therefore reducing this number by a large % of the stolen horses that go straight to slaughter, and the declining numbers of Premarin mares and foals needed (as this product will be “off the market” very soon), and the “harvesting” of our wild horses, that number seems to change quite a bit.

HORSE SLAUGHTER FACTS:

A few years ago, I was on the pro-slaughter (“necessary evil”) side. At the time, I didn’t really have any facts to back up my stance (SOUNDS LIKE A FEW PEOPLE WE KNOW HERE…CM, HG), just a “gut” feeling about how I thought this industry worked. I decided to do some research, so I could use logic and reason to counter the anti-slaughter arguments. My research sources included calls to the slaughter plants, economic data from the American Horse Council (a pro-slaughter organization), census data from the Government, stolen horse information from http://www.netposse.com, and a few other related data sources.
By the time I was done, I realized the anti-slaughter side was actually on the right track.

Let’s forget about the emotional side for a moment, and consider the raw numbers and economics. What about the long-term effects? If the bottom of the horse market falls out (which it has been doing slowly anyway), what will happen? In my estimation (based on facts and research), show horses and other high priced horses will be minimally affected. That class of horses does not rely on slaughter to set price trends. Their prices follow the demand for the sport/horse, trends in horses/sports, and the economy in general. The sector that will be hit the hardest are the low priced horses, poor quality horses, and more “common” horses (those already in a saturated market).

What will happen when those horses lose their value? Breeders who breed these horses will lose money, horse dealers/traders with this stock will lose money, auction houses will start losing money. It may take a few breeding seasons, but eventually, these people will get tired of losing money. Breeders will sell out or switch to a better breed/type that will bring in money. Horse dealers/traders will do the same. Auction houses will start figuring out how to bring in better horses, different horses, or different “things” to sell, because no one likes to lose money! Because of falling prices in this category of horses, the average horse buyer will start demanding better quality for his/her money…The “Trade Up” instinct. So, it’s only logical to think that sellers/breeders will follow the money and start breeding/selling better horses. Eventually, we will realize a more stable horse market, we’ll see better prices, and see better quality of horses being bred.
Abuse and neglect is a completely separate issue from slaughter. If you want tougher abuse laws and more enforcement, you need to contact your State Legislators. Ask them for tougher punishments and get after local authorities to enforce the enacted laws.

The horses that would have gone to slaughter at auctions will still be sold at auction, sold privately, donated to a rescue, therapeutic riding center, vet school, or humanely euthanized.

The people that frequent auctions (other than killer buyers) will still go to auctions. Prices for auction horses may go down, but the slaughter buyers are buying a SMALL percentage of the horses. There are 9.2 million horses in the US, so less than 1% of the horse population is slaughtered.

To put things into perspective, the mortality rate for horses is 10%. That means that over 900,000 horses a year die from illness, injury, accident, or natural causes. Those 900,000 horses are buried, rendered, or incinerated. Less than 10% of horses slaughtered are old, infirm, injured, or otherwise unusable. So, that means approximately 8,000 more horses a year will need to be put down. The other 70,000 to 80,000 will be able to stay in the market.

As for the people employed by the slaughter industry: The truck drivers will drive for someone else (I see LOTS of trucks going down the road with “now hiring drivers” signs on them). The plant employees quit these places on a frequent basis anyway (it is a VERY high turnover industry), so they will get jobs wherever they normally would be employed. The plant owners are from Belgium (and rich), so I imagine they will go home or start up another business. The USDA inspectors will still work for the USDA. They will just go on to inspect other animal slaughter facilities.

The REASON for slaughter is that people in Europe and Asia like to eat horses. That is it! They are entitled to do what their culture finds acceptable. Slaughter does not control our horse population here in the U.S., and it is not needed to control horse prices.

When horses were at their highest price, slaughter buyers still bought horses at premium price (up to $1 a pound at one point).

The ONLY way to stop horse slaughter is to make it illegal. Nothing you do about breeding or population control affects the number of horses slaughtered.

People who are breeding quality horses not already in a saturated market and are selling these horses for good prices will NOT be affected. If you believe you fall in this category, but you do end up having problems selling, then you were wrong and/or the market in general in your area is going down (it has been for the last 5 or 6 years).

Breeders that produce quality foals in a good market, and also know how to properly market their foals, they will survive. When things settle down a little, prices will go back up, prices will be more stable, and we will see better horses being bred (since that is where the money will be), and profits will be better than they have ever been.

The above is based on accurate research and statistical forecasts directly from the slaughter industry (independent research was done on ALL sources, as I was pro-slaughter before); knowledge and experience on the professional side of the horse industry, and knowledge gained from taking courses at college in economics, statistics, philosophy, history, theory, and research.

Here is a summary of all of the areas I researched, and this information is “just the facts.”
In 2004, approximately 66,000 horses were slaughtered here in the US for human consumption overseas (nearly 20,000 horses were exported “live” to Canada, Mexico, and Japan for slaughter). Their meat is exported to France, Belgium, Italy, and Japan.

Horsemeat is generally considered a delicacy in these countries and is higher priced than beef. France alone consumed 300,000 horses in 2003, and Italy 350,000 horses. The French numbers may change however. French government officials have suggested stopping the sale of horsemeat in restaurants due to health concerns. Many medications and topical treatments that are commonly used on horses should never to be used on animals intended for food, and there is no withdrawal period.

The 2005 population of horses in the US is approximately 9.2 million horses (from the American Horse council’s census). The 66,000 slaughtered horses represents 0.7% of the total population. It looks like we’ll hit about 90,000 horses this year (2005), which is less than 1% of the total horse population. In 1990, over 315,000 horses were slaughtered in the US. The number of horses slaughtered has steadily declined in the last 14 years, while the number of foals born has increased. Drops in the number of horses slaughtered have been almost 80,000 a year at times. During those years, we did not see a huge influx of surplus horses or a large drop in the sale price of horses. The number of horses slaughtered every year follows the demand for their meat.

This illustrates the lack of a need for the slaughter industry to regulate horse population.

The American Horse Council estimates that 10% of the horse population dies every year, either by accident/injury, illness, or natural causes. That means 920,000 horses will die this year. The large number of horses dying from ways other than slaughter has not created a negative environmental impact, like the AMVA and AQHA would like you to believe. The number of horses that will die far outnumbers those that will be slaughtered at 9:1.

California passed legislation to ban horse slaughter in 1998. Since the ban was enacted, horse thefts have dropped 34% in that state, and continue to drop every year (based on police reports filed for stolen animals). And horse prices remain stable. Abuse cases in California have not risen at all, and in fact have declined in areas, while the national average is on the rise.

Also, during the years that the Illinois slaughter facility was closed, abuse numbers leveled off and then began to fall.

Ironically, Texas has the highest rate of horse abuse in the nation. This illustrates that ending slaughter will not encourage the mass neglect and abuse of horses.

The method of transporting horses to slaughter is very inhumane. Horses often travel 36 hours or longer without rest, food, or water in extremely cramped double-decker trailers (this is standard operating procedure – ask any killer buyer). These trailers are built for shorter animals such as cattle, sheep and pigs; most horses cannot even lift their heads. Horses will often slip and fall in these trailers arriving at the plants dead or severely crippled. Transportation reform laws were passed in 2002 – but they have not done any good. Even proponents of slaughter such as Dr. Friend of Texas A&M agree that transportation of horses to slaughter is inhumane. NOTE: While a law has been recently enacted (December 2006) to make transported horses to slaughter in double-decker trailers illegal, this will NOT stop them from using these same inhumane methods to transport doomed, slaughter-bound horses to the “feedlots” in these trailers.

The slaughter itself is also very inhumane. The chutes that hold the horses are designed for cows, as is the captive bolt-gun. Horses are much stronger and more agile, with longer necks. They also have highly refined senses, and are more intuitive than cows. They are “flight animals” and are very skittish in stressful or unfamiliar environments. Therefore, they “thrash about” in the kill-box, making the captive bolt operator’s job impossible to be successful with one “shot.” The operator often has to stun a horse as many 3-4 times before rendering the horse unconscious.

A percentage of horses are slaughtered while still alive. The USDA considers a 95% rate of unconsciousness before being butchered as acceptable. Since approximately 3% of horses fall into this category, in this year alone, over 3,000 horses were slaughtered last year while still conscious and breathing.

The captive bolt gun is used to only “stun” the horses. It is like a spike on a leash, and is shot into the horse’s head, then retracts back in to the gun.

Horses that go to slaughter are mostly not the old, infirm, lame, or dangerous. Less than 10% of horses slaughtered are old, sick, injured, or otherwise “unusable.”

Just like beef consumers, people who eat horsemeat want young tender flesh. Most horses going to slaughter are NOT “unwanted” horses; there is just a demand for their meat, and they have ended up at the wrong auction at the wrong time.

Did you know that 40,000-50,000 horses are stolen in the USA every year? These statistics can be verified with Stolen Horse International, http://netposse.com.

Did you know that the only reason the slaughter plants scan for microchips is to remove them so they do not contaminate the meat? This was sworn testimony in court from slaughterhouse workers.

One interesting statistic: approximately 70% of all horses that are slaughtered in the USA are quarter horses (stock-type, some with verifiable AQHA papers). This is fact based on the slaughter plants’ own records. There are over 3 MILLION registered quarter horses in the USA.

There is no proof or evidence that exists to show that banning horse slaughter will cause a rise in abuse and neglect, with thousands of unwanted horses “lining the streets” or causing environmental problems.

BUT, there IS evidence to suggest that stopping horse slaughter will NOT cause these problems.

HERE ARE YOUR FACTS – READ THEM.

hi openmind,

i will try to keep it short

the bill is specifically designed for america’s horses.

“it is not the intent to impact legitimate food processing or production – common commerical or recreation sporting activity – existing laws relative to horse classification, taxation, or zoning – but to protect america’s horses from slaughter — *hoofpac

i personally see horses in america treated and administered to by veterinarians (with meds not to be used on animals intended for food) as more pet, sport, recreation, and companion animals.

horses helped build this country, are used in therapy and rehab, carry police officers in mounted units, search and rescue, parks and foresatry, and compete in the olympics games, and so much more.

americans dont eat horse meat.

it is no longer used in petfood in the U.S.

do you know the foreign owned plant in texas paid the town of kaufman only 5.00 in taxes one year? its in the hearings.

lots more info to be found – specifically in the post below – which i think shows alot of objectivity so read that too.

but i hope that this helped some.

p.s i was raised on a working farm with cattle and horses.5 generations who never ate their horses.

Openmind, I just wanted to say one thing – and I appreciate your curiosity about this!

Horse slaughter is “the ultimate betrayal”. We tame horses to trust us, do our will, just as we do with dogs, but then in the end when we find them useless or no longer to our liking, we send them to a “horrific” death. They see humans as friends, and then in the end their “friend” attempts to hit them with a bolt gun, designed for cows so that more often than not it misses its mark. Now you have a conscious, hurt animal being hoisted by its hind leg so they can slit its throat and bleed it to death. Again, this all being done by those it was taught to “trust”.

And yes, this is not a number cruncher and some would say the emotional side of it, but I tend to think of a betrayal as a moral issue.

Again, thank you openmind.

Marjorie

And one more thing, openmind, if we have convinced you, please help and sign our petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com /takeaction/631181096

You can also find more sites with info there.

Marjorie

Well I have spent some more time reading ALL of the posts. It doesn’t make any sense at all to accuse horse breeders of being villains when they have made it their life to raise horses. If they don’t love horses, why would they raise them? Just because they don’t love them the same way you do doesn’t make them wrong. I am sure there are plenty of livelihoods that would pay more, so it sure looks like love of the horse is what keeps them in business, not greed. I just really don’t think that slaughtering a horse is any worse scientifically than slaughtering any other animal, from everything that I have read. Sure, killing a horse ellicits a bigger emotional response. Thats it. And if horses feed hungry people in this country, why not allow that to continue? I don’t think either that just because one Native American is against horse slaughter that ALL of them are. That makes no sense. Why else would have the King of Iowa amendment have been proposed? Just from my objective standpoint, it doesn’t look like banning horse slaughter (or processing) is a good idea. Very well educated people in different affected fields have stated just that and so did the house committee on agriculture. There is no documented, well cited information from PhDs or informed legislators from the antislaughter side, but there is a great deal of such information from the proslaughter side. Why would big associations of veterinarians say processing is humane if it isn’t? And the fact that all those animal agriculture associations are against it says a lot to me too. A list of celebrity names against horse slaughter didn’t impress me. Just because they are celebrities doesn’t mean that they know anything about horses and their opinion shouldn’t be given more weight than those who actually own horses and have spent a lifetime doing it. I have learned a lot about this issue and it has been interesting, but despite all the rhetoric from both sides, it sure looks like the horse breeders who are pro slaughter and that have made horses their very lives are in the right on this one, whether they are the majority or not. I like the analogy about the architect. There are also people in this country that don’t choose to eat pork, but they aren’t campaigning agaist others eating pigs, and it should be likewise with people that don’t eat horse. If you don’t want to process a horse, don’t, but don’t prevent other people from doing it especially when so much good is gained from it, like better vet practices. It doesn’t seem like any of your business. Again, I am a city kid, but this is what conclusion I came to from what I read here. FYI.

Happy Holidays and thanks for the entertainment!!!

Just to set the record straight, I have two petitions online, both to end horse slaughter. They are the only petitions I have ever sponsored in my entire life. Please don’t state -lies- to get your point across, openmind.

It is apparent that you were never openminded about this issue, as you state at the end of your post: “Thanks for the entertainment.”

Just another pro-slaughter advocate here to bait us. Good luck, since horse slaughter will end in 2007.

Marjorie

P.S. And you say “animal rights activist” as if that’s a dirty word. I hope that one day you will find some kindness in your heart, for all beings living on this planet.

2 things I’ve read in some of these posts are dangerously incorrect…FIRST of all, horses are NOT slaughtered to feed starving people in other countries, rather they are slaughtered as a delicacy in many countries where they don’t even slaughter their own horses! Second, slaughter IS inhumane. Of course, the government is going to say it is humane – THEY are supposed to be regulating it – ha- ha. To those “city people” and horse owners/enthusiasts/breeders/ whatever, that think it is humane, please go to a slaughter house and decide for yourself. Therein lies the problem. Pro-slaughter people are speaking with no information except what they have been told or have read. Why don’t they go see for themselves? And if you can’t actually see it, just ask a slaughter-house worker if you can. I have been to BelTex in Texas – absolutely horrific and I was even trying to give them the benefit of the doubt the entire time. Horses are working participants in our society – carrying our police force around, are the animal for therapeutic riding, give carriage rides, to name a few. Give them the dignity they deserve – a peaceful ending, NOT slaughter. They are terrified from the time they get there to the time of death – they know what is happening – ALL of them.

US Horse Meat is Unsafe for Human Consumption

The main problem with slaughtering US horses for human consumption is that the meat is unsafe for human consumption because of the medications that horses receive. These medications are not approved for use in any food animals by the FDA and the USDA. The medications are legal for horses as they are not considered food animals by either of these agencies. If we are to continue to allow the 1% of the horse population to be slaughtered by foreign companies for human consumption overseas, then we must either 1) lose an estimated 70% of the current medications that US horse population receives so that the drugs do not enter the food supply or 2) implement a tracking system for the 9 million horses in the US, like the passport system that Great Britain has had to do recently, to ensure that these medications are not used in horses sent to slaughter.

Why is American horse meat unsafe for human consumption?
* Horses are not raised nor regulated as food animals in the US. They routinely receive medications that are banned from food animals such as Phenybutazone or “bute”, the aspirin of the horse world. Addition medications include Clenbuterol, Ivermectin, fluphanazine, fluoxetine, methylprednisone, dipyrone, gentamycin sulfate, ketoprofen, Regumate and Lasix — all clearly labeled, “Not for use in animals intended for food.”

What is the usage of bute in food animals in the US?
* According to the FDA, there is no tolerance for bute in food-producing animals, and they and their by-products are condemned when it is detected. Dairy producers must not use this drug in food-producing cattle and if it is found, those producers will be subject to FDA investigation and possible prosecution. (http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCK ETS/98fr/03-4741.htm). Since horses are not considered food animals in the US , bute is widely administered to horses by veterinarians and horse owners.
* The Food Animal Residue Avoidance Databank (A National Food Safety Project administered through the U.S. Departmentof Agriculture) prohibited the extralabel use of bute in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older as of May 29, 2003 because of the likely adverse effect in humans. With this action the use of any phenylbutazone in an adult dairy cow becomes a violation of the Food Drug and Cosmetic Act and one of FDA’s highest regulatory priorities. (http://www.farad.org/prohibit .html). Again, this does not apply to horses because the FDA and USDA do not view them as food animals. Therein lies the issue. US horses are not raised nor regulated as food animals, yet 1% of the 9 million American horses ARE being slaughtered for human consumption overseas.
* Veterinarians should be in violation of their own AVMA law by administering bute and almost all of the other medications they give to horses — “Extralabel drug use is not permitted if it would result in a violative food residue or any residue that may present a risk to public health.” (http://www.avma.org/onlnews/j avma/oct00/s100100a.asp)

What are the side-effects of bute?
* Phenylbutazone has been determined to be a carcinogen to humans by the National Toxicology Program (NTP).
* Phenylbutazone is also known for its ulcerogenic, nephrotoxic, and hemotoxic effects in humans. It is known to induce blood dyscrasias, including aplastic anemia, leukopenia, agranulocytosis, thrombocytopenia, and deaths.

Is bute ok for use in food animals in the countries where US horse meat is consumed?
* No. In the European Union, any horse that has EVER received bute in it’s lifetime is banned from entering the food supply. They have had to implement a costly and complex “passport system” in Great Britain (a country that is also overwhelmingly against horse slaughter) in 2004 to address this very issue for the 8,000-10,000 horses that go to slaughter for human consumption in the EU each year.

How is the collection of slaughter horses different from cattle?
* US slaughter horses are mainly purchased at auction through independent “killer buyers” contracted by the three foreign-owned horse slaughter houses in the US. The horses are bought from many owners across the country. There are NO medical records to go with these horses. In contrast, farm veterinarians are required to hold each cattle herd’s medical records for 2 years for trace back requirements of drug records, illness records, etc.

Aren’t there inspections on horse meat at slaughterhouses?
* Yes, there are random inspections of horse meat, but horses are not purchased from one owner in one herd like cattle are. They are bought from many owners at many locations and with no medical records. The horse slaughter houses would need to test EVERY horse to make sure they are free of toxic and carcinogenic drugs. This is NOT BEING DONE. At present, there can be NO ASSURANCE that US horse meat is safe for human consumption. This finding needs immediate action! According to our own laws, it is clearly illegal.

hellojojo

megafds

For the people that want to stop this maby we should send all the unwanted horses to them.How many of you even have horses? if you do not then keep your opions to your self.

Kyla Cole

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