Talking With the Creator of One of TV's Best and Smartest Shows

At HBO, do you compete with David Chase (The Sopranos) and David Milch (Deadwood)?

There's a joke around HBO that you can't get a show unless you're named David. I'll be honest with you, I don't watch those shows, I mean every now and then I'll catch an episode of Deadwood, or an episode of the Sopranos. I'm hoarding the DVD sets and I'll watch it after I finish The Wire. I don't want to have anything in my head, because I'm scared, those guys are good. I don't even want to unintentionally echo them.

You've taken some shots from the mayor of Baltimore . . . and some recent study said David Simon's shows are fucking up the image of Baltimore. How do you respond?

I read that in The Baltimore Sun, and I called up City Hall, and asked if this is true . . . But it turned out the story was sort of manufactured by the Sun and the response from the city has been "no, no, no, that's not what we found, don't worry about it." But I was worried about it. I felt bad, I live there. I don't live anywhere else. I live in Baltimore City, I don't even live in the county. I live in the city.

Sounds like the Mayor of Baltimore, Martin O'Malley, might not be a fan . . .

The truth is, after seeing the first season, the mayor was not happy and he called up very irate. He said he wanted to be out of The Wire business. And I reminded him, gently, that before I even turned the pilot in to HBO, I had lunch with him. I had a conversation with him and his chief of staff and I said, "I'm doing this show, it's very down on the drug war. It's very dark about the abilities of Americans to solve our urban problems. You have had two bites of my apple with Homicide . . . and if you want me to film this somewhere else, I will. It's not a problem -- there are other cities I can shoot in." And the mayor said unequivocally, "No, shoot it here."

So we did, and after he saw it I caught myself in this other conversation with him, where he wanted to not renew our permits. I said, "I'll move after season two and we'll shoot in Philadelphia." And there was this pause and he said, "If you shoot it in Philadelphia, will they be Philly cops and will it be about Philadelphia?" I said, "No, McNulty's a Baltimore City detective now. How can I change that? I'm stuck and you're stuck." And he said, "So you'd film it in Philadelphia and they'd get the money but it would still be about Baltimore?"

I said yeah, and there was another long pause and he said, "We will reconsider your request for permits," and he hung up on me. Our permits were approved and since that moment, the city has been entirely professional. I have to credit mayor Martin O'Malley. He hates the show, he hates my guts -- he's perfectly entitled. If I were the mayor, I would hate my guts and hate the show too, but my job isn't his job and his job's not my job, and given those realities, since that one pregnant moment, he and Baltimore City have been entirely professional throughout.

Katrina laid bare much of what you have written about on the show. Were you surprised by that?

In a lot of ways, New Orleans is Baltimore but it can carry a tune. I thought Katrina was literally America having to pause for a moment and contemplate the other America that somehow, tragically, Americans forgot. It's like America looking across the chasm saying, "Oh, are you still here? Oh, and you're wet. And you're angry."