A Conversation With Barack Obama

Bruce issued a pretty eloquent endorsement of you. What do you think of him and his work?
Not only do I love Bruce's music, but I just love him as a person. He is a guy who has never lost track of his roots, who knows who he is, who has never put on a front. When you think about authenticity, you think about Bruce Springsteen, and that's how he comes across personally. We actually haven't met in person.

He told me you gave him a call.
Yeah, we had a phone conversation, and he was exactly how you hoped he'd be. He's passionate and humble.

And you call him the Boss?
You've got to.

What did you listen to growing up?
I have pretty eclectic tastes. I grew up in the Seventies, so a lot of Seventies rhythm & blues and pop were staples for me: Stevie Wonder, Earth, Wind and Fire, Elton John, Rolling Stones.

Is there anyone who you would say were musical heroes to you at the time?
If I had one, it would have to be Stevie Wonder. When I was just at that point where you start getting involved in music, Stevie had that run with Music of My Mind, Talking Book, Fulfillingness' First Finale and Innervisions, and then Songs in the Key of Life.

Those are as brilliant a set of five albums as we've ever seen. So that was a guy I loved, and I loved the Stones.

What's your favorite Stones stuff?
"Gimme Shelter" is a great song.

What are you listening to now? What's on your iPod? When I was in high school, probably my sophomore or junior year, I started getting into jazz. So I've got a lot of Coltrane, a lot of Miles Davis, a lot of Charlie Parker. I've got all the artists we've already talked about, but I've got everything from Howlin' Wolf to Yo-Yo Ma to Sheryl Crow to Jay-Z.

What do you think of rap? Has it been unfairly attacked for destroying family values?
By definition, rock & roll is rebel music, which means if it's not being criticized, it's probably not doing its job. I am troubled sometimes by the misogyny and materialism of a lot of rap lyrics, but I think the genius of the art form has shifted the culture and helped to desegregate music. Music was very segregated back in the Seventies and Eighties — you'll remember that when MTV first came on, it wasn't until Thriller that they played Michael.

I know Jay-Z. I know Ludacris. I know Russell Simmons. I know a bunch of these guys. They are great talents and great businessmen, which is something that doesn't get emphasized enough. It would be nice if I could have my daughters listen to their music without me worrying that they were getting bad images of themselves.

Overall, what do you think of pop culture today? Is it a harmful or a healthy influence?
I'm not somebody who thinks that popular culture should carry the whole freight; it both shapes and reflects what's happening in the country as a whole. What I have seen is a shift in attitudes of young people wanting to be more engaged and more involved, and you're going to start seeing that increasingly reflected in music as well. Every time I talk to Jay-Z, who is a brilliant talent and a good guy, I enjoy how he thinks, and he's serious and he cares about his art. That's somebody who is going to start branching out and can help shape attitudes in a real positive way.

My sense is that artists go through phases. They start off expressing what they know and the stories they have to tell, and they're not necessarily thinking in terms of making a social statement. I don't think that should be a criteria for music. Over time, their worldviews broaden, and their music starts expressing that as well.

Change is the byword of the campaign and the definition of your strategy. Can you describe what change is? What does it look like? Not in policy terms, but what change you want to bring to America as a whole.
I want people to feel connected to their government again, and I want that government to respond to the voices of the people, and not just insiders and special interests. That's real change. I want us to think about the long term and not just the short term, whether it's climate change, energy policy, how we're educating our kids, what kind of investments we're making in our infrastructure, how we're dealing with the federal budget and national debt. I want us to think intergenerationally, something we used to do more of and we have lost. I want us to rediscover our bonds to each other and to get out of this constant petty bickering that's come to characterize our politics. That's not to say it's possible or even desirable to squash real policy arguments, but the tit-for-tat, "gotcha" game that passes for politics right now doesn't solve problems. I want to get beyond that.