Jed Clampett

If this truly is a war on terrorism, the enacting of political policy through fear and violence, then those who preach fear and violence withing our own government and corporations must be our first target.
Do not presume to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye by force, when you yourself carry a log in yours.
Guantanamo should stay open and start accepting the enemy combatants at the investment banks and other wall street monsters that destroyed the economy. Probe them for their connections to legislators that colluded to pass unconstitutional legislation that provided cover for their crimes and a legal base to do it from.
Once they are waterboarded, subjected to freezing cold and constant loud music, we can start finding out who the other conspirators are. Who the others that want to see our government, OUR WAY OF LIFE, destroyed and our laws twisted for their own benefits while denying their compatriots the pursuit of happiness, subjecting us to merely struggling to survive.

Why didn’t you ask about the detainees that will be tried by military commissions? The administration is only willing to try those it is sure it can convict in a cout of law. Different levels of justice mean that these are more show trials. You blew an opportunity to ask about this sorry fact.

Im disapointed that Obama is going to have military tribunals for some suspects, thats not justice its a predetermind outcome.

In their minds, it’s better than admitting to the world that our military paid millions of dollars to our enemy for them to finger a bunch of peasants that had never even fired a weapon or been out of their farms.
It was one of the more lucrative business ventures taken on by the Taliban. Today, their best racket is protecting American convoys from themselves.
We’re basically funding the next major strike on the homeland and we’re too stupid to realize it.
How much do you want to bet it happens on Obama’s watch so the vultures can rip him up?
Probably right before the next congressional elections… if they pay enough, they might even get Bin Laden to make a guest appearance to help things along.
I imagine his speaking fees are astronomical these days.

Repugs = vultures indeed. But Obama is asking for a lot of this. His administration is conciously and actively pursuing many of the horrific Bush legal fiascos; military commissions for the “less certain” cases being only one of them, no trial at all for the most uncertain cases being another. Warrentless wiretapping on US citizens being another.

And now, with the health care scam, Obama’s color’s – trigger pink and Bush with a brain – are really starting to show.

As none of these terrorists are US citizens, I’m unsure as to why they’re being afforded the same rights. As they were captured on the battlefield, in violation of the Geneva Convention, the UCMJ ought to be plenty legal enough to decide their cases.

Johson v. Eisentrager and Ex Parte Quirin have, for over 60 years, given fairly specific guidlines on how to handle these cases…I’m unsure as to why both Bush and Obama seem unwilling to follow legal precedent. Absolutely these men ought to be tried fairly, but not in the civilian system, as no enemy combatent has previously been tried as such.

Jed Clampett

We must remember not to fall into the totalitarian belief that our president holds all power and can control everything, including the speed of production of medicines. The Reich would have us believe that so they can saddle him with all the blame, but reality is far from their fallacy.

We must also remember that he is surrounded by ‘advisers’ and ‘experts’ that tell him what can or can’t be done legally. Most of these ‘advisers’ are placed there by corporations and even industries intent on usurping government(Reich Wingers), intent on turning it from an entity that represents the people into a group of insiders that represents them.
As time passes and he becomes more isolated from the world outside the oval office, like all presidents are, he becomes more reliant on that advise; he gets ‘as.similated’, convinced to act this way or that, by the advice of experts and the repetition of warnings replayed in his inner voice. You have to remember that these guys have the monetary resources and the knowledge of psy ops to rely upon, and that know one man knows everything, he must rely on faithful counsel that has the common good as it’s driving philosophy.

He must break out of the bubble and do what is right, recognize the power of the presidency in time of war to dissolve the monopolies that drive us into conflict and steal from our treasury. He must use the powers that Bushney enacted to spy on Americans to prosecute the criminals who would sell out their people for the short term gain of a few million dollars. Those criminals have become so confident in their impunity, that they have themselves become too big to fail, that they commit crimes carelessly under the banner of ‘working for the fatherland’. He must show them that no one is ‘too big to fail’ or be prosecuted, not a corporation and definitely not a person… this is not Russia or Zimbabwe, this is a nation governed by the rule of law, enforce those laws and repeal those laws enacted unconstitutionally for the benefit of a chosen few. We should expect that much from a man with the knowledge of a constitutional scholar. Enforce the constitution above insane laws.

We must let him know that we still support him, and let the Reich understand that we will not allow them to usurp OUR authority… even though for the most part they have. The only way for the people to do this is to show their numbers, to become involved, to engage in the simple act of voicing their support and their displeasure at the right targets. Then, show their numbers by walking the streets in numbers the media cannot ignore. The same numbers that were present at his campaign stops, the same numbers present when latinos were being used as scapegoats, the same numbers that helped Mr. King become a force to be listened to rather than oppressed.
Internal conflict is not good for business, and if militarily trained discards become despondent enough, they might just go into board rooms and start picking off the real enemies, the real traitors to humanity, the evil doers that would pit brother against brother for the luxury of a new jet plane.

Jed Clampett

We must remember not to fall into the totalitarian belief that our president holds all power and can control everything, including the speed of production of medicines. The Reich would have us believe that so they can saddle him with all the blame, but reality is far from their fallacy.

We must also remember that he is surrounded by ‘advisers’ and ‘experts’ that tell him what can or can’t be done legally. Most of these ‘advisers’ are placed there by corporations and even industries intent on usurping government(Reich Wingers), intent on turning it from an entity that represents the people into a group of insiders that represents them.
As time pas.ses and he becomes more isolated from the world outside the oval office, like all presidents are, he becomes more reliant on that advise; he gets ‘as.similated’, convinced to act this way or that, by the advice of experts and the repetition of warnings replayed in his inner voice. You have to remember that these guys have the monetary resources and the knowledge of psy ops to rely upon, and that no one man knows everything, he must rely on faithful counsel that has the common good as it’s driving philosophy.

He must break out of the bubble and do what is right, recognize the power of the presidency in time of war to dissolve the monopolies that drive us into conflict and steal from our treasury. He must use the powers that Bushney enacted to spy on Americans to prosecute the criminals who would sell out their people for the short term gain of a few million dollars. Those criminals have become so confident in their impunity, that they have themselves become too big to fail, that they commit crimes carelessly under the banner of ‘working for the fatherland’. He must show them that no one is ‘too big to fail’ or be prosecuted, no corporation and no person should be above the law… this isn’t a mafiosi nation, this is a nation governed by the rule of law, enforce those laws and repeal those laws enacted unconstitutionally for the benefit of a chosen few. We should expect that much from a man with the knowledge of a constitutional scholar. Enforce the constitution above insane laws.

I find it truly bizarre that there is more concern for the criminals than the victims. But then most of the people here believe we deserved 9/11 for our imperialistic and non “bowing” ways.

We live, or pretend to live, in a nation of laws. One of the greatest laws of all time is the writ of habeas corpus. Concern for these laws is in no way contradictory with concern for victims. On the contrary, if we ignore these core human rights, we all become potential victims of vigilante or politically motivated justice.

I wonder: will KSM, et al, be able to raise the issue of torture in their trials? Will they be able to call Bush admin officials to testify? Will these trials open the door for a broader look at Bush-era policies?

Agreed.

One of the formative tenets of American law is that all humans are created equal… in other words, everyone is bound by the same laws and rules. A foreigner coming here has to conform to our laws and is supposedly bound by his nation’s laws as well, all people are restricted and protected by laws of accepted human behavior. To deny these protections to anyone, or to allow anyone to transcend these laws and be above them, endangers us all.

An interesting thing some of us fail to understand is that once we leave our borders we do not become lawless. We are still bound by the laws of behavior designed for American citizens. Therefore, just moving prisoners to a foreign country but still under American custody does not absolve the custodians from conforming to laws designed to protect all people. The mitigating factor is that foreign countries may choose not to enforce our laws in their country, likewise ourselves, there are however international laws that all nations must enforce.

Political correctness – It Kills

Political Incorrectness – it sends others to kill

Jed Clampett

As if we didn’t know Them Crooked Vultures in congress were actually working for lobbyists and huge corporations loaded with money, today the NYT lobs a bombshell…

nytimes dot com/2009/11/15/us/politics/15h ealth.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

we already knew our politicians were not very avid readers and permitted the industry giants to write legislation that is favorable to them rather than the public… but few knew that they were so sloppy as to post the same statements offered up by one lobbying group. Did you say you wanted a smoking gun?

The particular company at hand seems to be a subsidiary of Roche pill pushers. A Swiss company, remember the Swiss? They were ‘neutral’ during the second global ‘conflict’, yet benefited greatly in their banking endeavors by having secret bank accounts and by hiding the as.sets of fam.ilies that had been virtually wiped out by N.azis. They evidently also benefited greatly from the research conducted on prison camps into ‘addictive medicines’ and other procedures. You might also remember that they are the favorite place for thieves to hide their illegal proceeds in a secretive banking structure that helps provide laundry services for criminal ventures all over the world.
Isn’t this a huge hidden piece of the puzzle in the ‘axis of evil’ that has our world by the ba.lls?

All is fair in the name of profit, right?

As someone posted earlier, why is it the 6 richest Senators are Democrats when the GOP is portrayed as the greedy one?

Sunshine is the best antiseptic

Judith,that Americans want a fair trial for terror suspects, says something positve and shows why we’re better than our enemies.

When have those kind of people been concerned with fairness or image? They just want vengeance and punishment… and to ignore the real causes and our transgressions.

Why is it all the Forbes 400 richest people vote Republican?

Why is it that the rich prefer to invest in things that hurt humanity instead of help it evolve?

KSM was water boarded 183 times in one month before he confessed. Enough said.

When foreigners attacked our financial system and killed three thousand people the US responded by invading two countries, destabilizing the Middle East by allowing Israel to unleash it’s military might on Lebanon and Gaza, destabilized Southeast Asia by pumping BILLIONS of our treasure into the hands of the very people that attacked us and are the source of terrorism in the region and the world, Pakistan. They also weakened the nation by becoming more and more dependent on a nation that floods our markets with poisoned products and the fruits of slave labor, China, thereby making our nation weaker.

When nationals attacked the financial system by using fraudulent, private trades based on lies, insuring bad loans without financial backing to cover their obligations, and creating Ponsi schemes to defraud the public, it showered the criminals with money and support.

Don’t our reactions seems totally disproportionate and misplaced to anyone?

Aren’t the enemies of freedom, justice and prosperity for all amongst our midst much more dangerous than people trying to eke out a living from the desert and barren mountains?

George, you REALLY have to stop watching MSNBC and reading the liberal myths in Huffington Post.

Check where Gates and Buffett, Allen, the richest Americans give their money; DEMOCRATS.

Why is it the Dems lie constantly and spin when they are caught?

What’s the difference between a Michigan militia and an Islamic militia? Not much, they are both armed groups preparing to spread their dogma through violence or fear. Their funding sources might be different, but since all those are secretive, they could be the same.

cnn dot com/video/#/video/us/2009/11/1 6/acosta.militias.cnn

I remember a general attesting recently that people confessed within a minute of starting the waterboarding… so was the other 183 times just sadism? Or was the general engaged in psy ops against his government, his people, by means of deceit?

Forgive me for not shedding tears for KSM and his waterboarding endeavor. For all that monster has done, there is nothing we can do sufficient to what he deserves. Holder and company better make sure they don’t blow this. If they do, Obama will suffer the political consequences, and they will be severe.

Sooth: Gee, good one. Great comeback. Don’t refute the claim, just cite where Democrats recieve money, also.

Anyway, trying criminals in a court of law. Gee, what a concept.

Republiphobes: As always……RELAX. These ‘terrorists’ that we’re putting on trial are not going to be set free. Do you think our justice system is blind? It may be blind in the case of Dick Cheney/Karl Rove/Addington, etc…., but not here. And, isn’t it about time to try these people anyway? Who do you think has been paying to keep them down in Guantanimo? Taxpayers. Try them. Convict them. End of story.

Try them and convict them legally for sure, but I think its a mistake equating political terrorists with your garden variety criminal. Johnson v. Eisentrager and Ex Parte Quirin have already dealt with these questions, and there is already legal precedent on how to deal with enemey combatents not fighting under the banner of a particular nation. We didnt treat the Nazi’s or the Imperial Japanese as garden variety criminals. Slobodan Milosevic was not tried as a garden variety criminal, neither were the Lockerby bombers. A distinction should, and has, to be made to emphasize this point.

We already have precedent, unfortunately President Obama is following Bush in ignoring it.

Coach– And if they do get off on a technicality? KSM certainly, in the civilian system, has a case for getting off, due to his waterboarding. What then?

Then we’ll place the blame directly were it belongs, on the administration that decided to ignore the law and basic human rights and waterboarded him 183 times, making it impossible to prosecute.
Besides, right to a speedy trial does not mean languishing in prison for 8 years waiting for something as basic as a hearing.

Hate to break it to you nitwit, but Japan and Germany were fighting under the banner of nation during a war. The American nationals of Japanese descent however were not, they just happened to have a different skin tone and eye shape which scared the xenophobes who are so easily manipulated by fear.

Has anyone noticed… they used to excuse Bush’s every boneheaded move, now they try to equate Obama to him.
Collective amnesia or simply dishonesty?

Anon– What a nice cavalier attitude to have about the whole proceeding…who cares whether or not justice is served for the victims of those who were incinerated in the twin towers, if you can score political points against Bush. Classy…I’m sure the victims families will love the smug superiority you’ll get from it while they get no justice.

Read Ex Parte Quirin and Johnson v. Eisentrager, two cases that dealt with enemy combatents who did not fight under a specific banner of a nation, but still fought against the US, on foreign soil. Those two cases have formed the bedrock of the precedent of all cases that involve enemy combatents. We’ve been throught this before…and all cases were legally tried through the UCMJ protocols. You want Obama to stop being compared to Bush? Hope he starts following the rule of law, something Bush did not do.

There is already precedent for cases like KSM’s to be tried, legally, but it is not the civilian system. The man and his ilk clearly fall under the banner of enemy combatents and war criminals, not basic thugs, hence the Eisentrager Protocols are more than legal enough to ensure that justice is served. Call on Obama to have the stones to do what Bush did not, which is to follow the correct procedures that will bring justice and not let the guilty off. You may be comfortable with that proposition, but the vast majority of americans will not enjoy seeing KSM walk free because of some misguided need to send Bush a statement.

Jed Clampett

How is one criminal different from another? I don’t get it… so a criminal that steals from his country in a time of war is just a garden variety criminal and should be celebrated and protected because he was successful at making lots of money legally after getting laws pas.sed to cover his crimes in a shroud of legalese, while a criminal that is trying to stop the perceived enemy of his people through violence is tortured? Seems to me we have it backwards, we’re torturing the ones who have made their motivations well known and ignoring the ones who are secretive and deceptive.
They are both selfish and stupid bastards that would sell out their mother, father, brother or cousin for a few dollars or even a little fame.

Did you happen to notice the guys in the Militia video were poor people incensed by racism and fear into protecting the oligarchy? What a bunch of marroons.

Milosevic? really, Milosevic? wasn’t that a criminal enterprise that had availed themselves of the power of a country and unleashed it on a particular population out of racism and greed? Where you thinking Bush? You do realize he was fighting under the flag of a nation, don’t you?

The president is not above the law, a precedent and distinction should and has to be made to emphasize this point.

No man should be protected from prosecution for their criminality merely because he committed his crimes under the flag of a country, particularly not this one, where the rule of law is supposedly sacrosanct.

Merk, What then?

Well, for one, I guess we’ll invent some new rule for keeping him indefinitely……

But, much of the debate, and the underlying premise can be found in one of your statements: You call them ‘enemy combatants’. And, therein lies the quandry we’re in. We’re on their land, and THEY”RE enemy combatants? Sure, KSM allegedly was the mastermind of 9/11. But, if you ask me, that’s just media propoganda designed to protect bin laden. But, that’s a whole different topic. But, if he WAS the mastermind, and we can prove it, then what are you worried about?

Another weird viewpoint in the enemy combatants realm is this: Why don’t we call homegrown murderers ‘enemies’?

Manson
Koresh
Jones
Dah mer

Labeled mass murderers……not enemy combatants.

Jed– Surely you can see the difference between someone robbing a store and incinerating 3000 innocent people, yes? No one is saying that only one is prosecutable, but that different crimes are punished via different systems. Simply because the man was “tortured” does not absolve him of the 3000 he helped murder as an act of terror/war against this country. If you want to score political points against Bush, do it in some other way…not with the justice for the families of the murdered on the line. Quit trying to shift the blame; regardless of whatever Bush did/didnt do, the innoncent people just doing their jobs at the twin towers had nothing to do with any of it. I, for one, am not willing to let them die in vain because KSM was not mirandized, or some other technicality BS that will arise as he works his way through the civilian courts.

For 60 years, up until last week, precedent held that war criminals such as KSM and other enemy combatents were prosecuted via the UCMJ system, which was, and presumably still is, found to be legally sound by several generations of the Supreme Court. The situation surrounding KSM and his ilk is not new, all we have to do is follow the roadmap, so to speak. You say the President is not above the law, then why isnt he following it? You’ve screamed and moaned for 8 years that the law was not followed, but now you’re making excuses…the precedent has been well set Jed, all Obama has to do is follow it…it would be a nice, refreshing change from the last 8 years…

If it all works out fine, so be it. But Obama better be prepared for the backlash thats going to happen if one of these dudes gets off on a technicality because he decided to break precedent, for whatever reason.

Merk, Bush did the same thing hundreds of times. ‘Enemy combatants’ brought to civilian courts. Obama is not subverting the rule of law, as you’re presuming.

A judge is a judge. A jury is a jury. And a conviction is a conviction. Why does it matter to you where it comes from?

Terrorists want us to change our way of life. Well, since 9/11, I would say they’re done their job. We’ve signed the patriot act, invaded a sovereign nation, wiretapped our own people, and indefinitely imprisoned and tortured thousands.

I’d say victory in this round went to the terrorists.

Coach– The civilian system is not the same as the UCMJ. How are you going to try any of them? They werent Mirandized. All testimony against them was exacted under forced circumstances, and thus inadmissable. They were denied counsel. Where are you going to find 12 impartial jurors, or even a judge, for that matter, anywhere in the US, least of all NY? And every single one of their lawyers knows this, and will have a strong case for dismissal, espescially now that they supposedly have Constitutional rights.

You, or anyone else, have yet to point out what the deficiences were in the UCMJ system, using the standard set by previous cases, i.e. Quirin, Eisentrager, and Hamdan v. Rumsfeld. Try these men as we’ve legally tried other designated enemy combatents in the past, via military tribunals, in which they are provided counsel, habeus corpus, a fair trial, etc, but are treated as they should be. These separate systems exist for a reason…these guys are not common criminals, and should not be treated as such. The families of those murdered on 9/11 deserve justice, and not to be cheated out of it because you want some false sense of moral superiority.

You want to follow rule of law, so be it. Follow Ex Parte Quirin, Johnson v. Eisentrager, and Hamdan v. Rumsfeld…all of which clearly delineate the difference between civilian and UCMJ legal processes. But if you want to play the civilian game, dont be at all surprised if any of these guys gets off, or goes back to committing terrorist acts like the ones already released from Gitmo. Its a dangerous gamble, but if Obama wants to play it, so be it.

Jed Clampett

If the truth and justice for the victims of September eleventh is truly what we seek, then we must be very honest about how we actually proceed.
Ignoring the criminals that made the event possible within our own ranks is not justice.
Blaming an entire religion for the acts of a few violent mafiosi is not justice.
Not punishing officials that failed to follow up on the Mussaui affair is not justice.
The NSA failing to provide the FBI with the information that they had on the cell which entered the US is not justice.

Truth in it’s entirety, with all the ugly parts of how some of our own elements were involved in sending the world into conflict is necessary.
Ignoring the evidence and white washing the entire ordeal with a stack of worthless papers titled the 9/11 commission in the same manner that president Kennedy’s murder was whitewashed is merely perpetuating the criminal acts of a leadership entrenched in self profit and organized crime.

What da fk do Americans know about justice… unless it’s the kind distorted and televised by judge judy, law and order and other fantasy designed to lull you into a stupor. Puleeeze!! As if I could be convinced the same way that you convince yourself that you give a damn about the people and their families that were destroyed in NY or of the subsequent murders of innocents all over the world, merely to support a criminal enterprise that wastes our hard earned money in armaments and entropy rather then development, growth and prosperity for all, ectropy if you will.

Kind of difficult to think of those people as innocent when you consider what we have learned over the last year about how Wall Street works. They are willing to treat US like nothing more than slaves, what do you think they are doing in other countries.

One must look at the situation from the enemies perspective rather than what is imagined or popularized about their motivations if we hope to resolve the problem rather than merely fan the flames. Failure to do so risks making the situation worse.

To vociferously spread a fallacy out of sheer ignorance is as damaging as the act itself. And unless you can make a reasoned argument instead of spouting off propaganda and fantasy, perhaps it’s better to keep your mouth shut or risk making the situation worse… unless your intent is just that.

When you think about how the poor of the world are suffering because of the excesses of a few greedy individuals, is it any wonder they would be wiling to subject themselves to death, punishment or whatever to make their desperate situation known?
Unfortunately, there are selfish greedy ba.ssTurds on either side waiting to take advantage of their desperation and violent outbursts, pit them in an orgy of violence against other violent and ignorant people on the other side. It’s this dance that keeps people dumb, driven by emotion rather than logic and the wealthy drunk on power and extravagance.

Perhaps we didn’t understand the message or preferred to dismiss the important parts out of incredulity at the more amazing parts and the distortions.
Unfortunately, some people choose to believe the worst and repress the best of humanity.

Jed Clampett

“Surely you can see the difference between someone robbing a store and incinerating 3000 innocent people,”

surely you must be retarded to try and make such a preposterous comparison, no?
Oh, that’s right, first you hyperbolyze and build a straw man from your own imagination that you can actually try to defend against. An old, tried and discredited form of debate employed when the user has no real argument or debate ability beyond his own imagination. The product of a weak mind that can only refute weak arguments of his own production.

Why don’t you try comparing one act of murder against another? What’s the difference in incinerating people with stolen planes and incinerating people with million dollar laser guided ordinance dropped from million dollar war machines?
Are the victims any less incinerated?
Are the crimes any less barbarous? Are the results any different? Won’t the robber barons and war mongers on either side use any of those acts to incense their people into more violence?
How stupid is the person that takes the bait like a hungry shark and allows it to turn him into a tool of hate?

Yea coach, we have to try him in a kangaroo UCMJ court to hide the fact that we didn’t have any true evidence on him in the first place, merely guesses and imaginations put in place by fear, pride and ignorance. It’s a fair trial when you can’t inspect or call into question the evidence held against you because it was gathered by ’secret’ means, even though everyone but the defendant and perhaps his ‘representative’ are part of the crime syndicate judging him, isn’t it?
Hey, if a guy is a judge he can’t be corrupt or biased, can he? Especially if he’s trained by the same group he fights for and has sworn allegiance to.
Never mind the example of corruption presented by the judge that was sending kids into custody on minor charges just to fill his cronies private prisons.

Justice, we don’t need no stinkin’ justice? We have reich-teousness!!

An act of war is driven by a nation, if we had attacked Pakistan, I might believe it was justified, instead we rewarded them with billions.
A group of privateers stealing vessels to attack civilian targets are crimes of violence, piracy if you will.
Dropping bombs on a country without a declaration of war in an attempt to murder a single man that supposedly ‘tried to kill my daddy’ is a war crime. It uses the resources of a nation to attack an innocent population in an attempt to kill one man in order to spread your political dogma and help your cronies in the MIC make money on military contracts.
I would try to explain it to you better, but rocks don’t learn very well… I’m sure others can understand what I mean though.

“Kind of difficult to think of those people as innocent when you consider what we have learned over the last year about how Wall Street works. ”
Been brushing up on your Ward Churchill, have you? So because some people in the financial sector committed fraud and put their greed ahead of ethics, those who died on 9/11 had it coming? It was an appalling statement when Churchill said it and it’s no less appalling coming from you. I’m sure the people who worked for the TV and Cable stations, or the engineering or communication companies that officed in the towers were all key to causing our economic meltdown. Nice to see your true colors show through.
What I don’t understand is how those who post here can consistently rail against the crazy Religious Right in this country and Christian fundamentalists who murder doctors in the name of God, yet give a free pass to the crazy Muslim fundamentalists who orchestrate attacks on civilians in the name of Allah. Or even worse, try to equate them to some kind of freedom fighter.
These terrorists don’t just want us to change our way of life, they want a world governed by Sharia Law, which provides anything BUT freedom.

Jed– Oh man, now I’m a rock? You gotta get better with the insults, you’ve been slipping lately.

Btw, wasnt your whole post just a straw man built up against the military? Being critical about our military misuse is one thing, but you’ve taken it to the point of vehement parody. You seem to love to just attribute views to people despite no evidence. So you believe that KSM and his ilk are innocent? Despite all evidence, and self admittance, to the contrary? And if we let them go, and they committ another terrorist act? Why, you’ll be the first one to apologize for it, explaining that innocent people going about their day deserved to die, and that its really the MIC/Reich Wing/Republicans/Big Business/fill in your cliche cartoonish catchphrase de jure’s fault.

That said, I’m going to side with the supreme court, as I trust their knowledge of justice is far more credible than some dude posting as “Jed Clampett” on RollingStone…they already ruled the UCMJ courts as plenty legal. Eric Holder still believes them legal enough to try other Gitmo detainees. So, naturally, you still havent answered the question; what is wrong with the UCMJ system? And, also, it would seem now you’re making apologies for those who died on 9/11. Lemme guess, they deserved it right? Why lets scrap the justice system, as everyone convicted is innocent. When they’re released, they can move right next door to you! Oh wait, not in your backyard, right? I’m sure every rapist and murderer in prison is real swell guy, they just got shafted by that evil, corrupt, afforded cousel if you cant afford it, convicted by a jury of your peers court system. Man, and they even got Constitutional protections. What a horrible country this is where someone is innocent until proven guilty. Much worse than Pinochet’s Chile, right Jed?

And you dare call anyone else evil or surrounded by darkness…you’re the only one making apologies for killers round these parts dude. Your idea of justice is pretty stunted…I’d hate to live in the land of Jed; off with your head for anything Jed the dictator decrees rankles his sensibilities…

Punish the guilty and dont paint with a broad brush…what’s your fault with that Jed?

Somewhere– Remember, its ok for innocents to be killed if those doing the killing are doing so against the MIC/Big Business/Reich Wing/etc, etc. Jed only condemns killing when he disagrees with its aims…remember, Jed-logic is not always sound, nor does it hold up under strict scrutiny.

Jeds world: US soldies killing people = bad, unjustified (and he’s right)

Terrorists killing people = totally justified, and will make apologies for it till the sun goes down…

Mercury: If it’s been done hundreds of times before with terrorists, why are you questioning its validity now? Why weren’t you questioning all the other times?

I’ll repeat, it’s been done hundreds of times before with no problems. So, since the playing field has changed, and there’s a Democrat in the White House who happens to not be white, now these trials are a bad idea?

It’s pure, utter, desperation to try to deligitimize everything Obama does.

And, to think, you and your ilk are the ones that call us the alarmists over excessive emissions. Who’s being the alarmist now?

“That Americans are simply unaware of the fact that we’ve had 195 convictions of suspected terrorists in U.S. courts since 2001.”

Lieberman and his lemmings are wasting space.

If anything happens that somehow, give these alleged terrorists an OUT, it will be because of torture. THEN, who’s to blame?

This is five minutes of news that will disappear as soon as the wave of echos find something else to yell about.

Prof. Ward Churchill called the victims of the attacks on the US economic system ‘little Eichmanns’ in reference to Otto Adolf Eichmann, a NAZI party bureaucrat who helped send people to their deaths in concentration camps.
Eichmann didn’t believe in the dogma spouted by his leaders, nor followed the ideology of the party, he merely found a position that was profitable and did his job efficiently, ignorant of or insensitive to the suffering his job created. He only understood efficiency and ‘a job well done’, morality didn’t factor into his thought processes as long as he was being paid well and led a comfortable life. He was able to be very efficient with help of IBM computing systems and punch cards, an American company that needed the money.

In that respect he was pretty much on the mark, as the suctioning of wealth from other nations, the stealing of natural resources through bribing corrupt officials and the unbridled concern with profits over morality or even humanity never came into their minds. All that mattered was the nice bonus at the end of the year and the unconscionable understanding that money trumps everything. The stock market is merely a way for those who control most of the monetary resources to hide the way they ‘do business’ by mixing it in with a small percentage of the money of individuals.

But the war mongers and bleating sheep will spout off propaganda without really thinking about it. You can’t really blame them though, you see sheep don’t have much of a brain, all they know is to repeat what others indirectly pump into their hollow craniums, and the war mongers?… well, someone has to make a profit off war, might as well be them, right? they worked hard at it and were smart enough to make others do the fighting for them. They MUST be rewarded.

Being of Native American descent, Prof Churchill had a deeper understanding of how the system works to destroy a certain group of people.

Yup, those people just going about their day on 9/11 deserved to die…I’m sure the families of the victims will love that one…

btw, Churchill is in no way native american, his claim as such has been exposed as a lie. The American Indian Movement itself stated that Churchill falsely claimed native american heritage. So, he’s about as Indian as the Pope is Jewish…

and you wonder why the lunatic fringe of left still has any credibility…

Jed Clampett

Wow, what a rant. No one could have foreseen that you’d be so incensed and out of control.

Perhaps next time I should bring a smaller hook to this shark hunt. ‘You’re gonna need a bigger boat’

Did you say my name enough times while distorting what was written? You better quit it, people are gonna think you’re in love with me.

Remember folks, this is the guy who said he would fight to protect my right to have an opinion. Now if he put half the energy into trying to understand what I posted instead of all the energy he spent in trying to repress my views and twist my words, he might see a little sunshine. Doubtful though.

Anyone who acts with of violence and desperation, out of ignorance and hate, out of pride and blindness to their own culpability risks making matters worse for themselves and their own clan.
Those who think anything can be resolved by killing their fellow human beings while ignoring the destruction being visited upon their planet is delusional and taken with the sickness. When someone is stricken with ‘The Sickness’ they will internalize, greed, intolerance, hatred, ineptitude and disdain and spout those qualities off at any opportunity when they loose control.

Remember in the movie Constantine when he goes to help a girl and has the others hold up a mirror above her bed?

Jed– Glad you approved of the rant, I guess I was just channeling ole Clampett spirit…I could have added your name a couple more times, but I guess I was so out of control I forgot. I nearly just wrote “Merk Smash!” before, I guess, in the middle of my rage I had a moment of lucidity. B.uy the ticket, take the ride.

Besides, you dont need me to twist your words…you do just fine on your own! I’m not trying to shut you up, or silence you. Hell, keep on talking, you do more damage to your cause with what you post than I could ever hope to. In my wildest dreams I couldnt imagine the gaping holes you leave open in your arguments…unlike Coach or Dennis, you make it easy! I mean, criticizing me for erecting straw men by ironically ranting in a post that raises nothing but straw men? Priceless!

Blood for Oil of Olay was right, once someone has your number down, its quite amusing to watch you burble up cliches and insults while blaming others for just pointing out that maybe your logic isnt sound. After all, its all I’ve ever done…jeez, you point out one little flaw in your reasoning, like maybe the whole world isnt some cartoonish black and white cliche, and you think I’m some evil cretin…if you dont like me shooting holes in your arguments, dont post inanities. I can take it as good as I can dish it out, can you?

Remember that movie Caddyshack when all those guys went golfing and they hit the little ball with golf clubs? Good movie, like your posts, they give a good chuckle.

Btw, hows the “Give Peace A Chance” Border Tour 09 going? Converted any drug runners with your rendition of Imagine?

Jed Clampett

Approved of the rant? It’s sad to see an otherwise semi intelligent person loose it like that, but then again, that was my intention. To show others your true nature.

Once again, you’ve chosen to turn a comment into a personal fight. You’ll make a good soldier, they need automatons out there that can make a war into something personal, I just hope they send you abroad instead of unleashing you on your own countrymen… either way, I’m sure you’ll enjoy killing people. Your kind typically enjoy killing things.

Jed– My true nature or pointing out the fallacies of your arguments? Happy to oblige buddy! Besides, we’re both predictable in a way, dont you think?

Again, Jed, its not personal, except you’re the one calling me a dbag and a retard. I dont have any sort of dislike towards you, like I said, having you around makes my posts all the easier…but I will give it back as well as I take it. You got nasty before I did, I only responded in kind.

In any case, back to topic, Holder inspired absolutely no confidence whatsoever in his testimony. I hope it works out, but even Holder cant seem to give a straight answer on anything.

How absurd.
America stays losing.
Torturing patsy’s 200 times until they “confess” to “masterminding” 911 might fool some of the retards living in America but the rest of us see right through this hoax.

The Big Lie of 911 continues to wreak havoc and destroy the United States.

Executing patsy cavemen won’t stop the truth from coming out.

If we’re serious about saving this nation then we need to start executing the terrorists on Wall Street.

Travis, if you want your message to actually mean something, you need to start telling people to:

1. Use credit union savings accounts. No more commercial banking, period.

2. No loans of any kind. No more purchasing vehicles, homes, credit cards. It’s what is making Wall street so rich.

3. And, last, but not least, get the best possible mpg you can, and save up for solar panels.

Get off the Wall Street radar, which is commercial banking, oil, gas, and loan sharking.

Jed Clampett

HMMM!! I’ts a fallacy to think that people and what is happening to our world is more complex than your ‘two legs bad, four legs good’ view of looking at humanity?

I really don’t think you are acquainted with anything outside your own imagination to predict what anyone will do, including yourself. I pointed out the pattern your kind follows a long time ago, even though you recognize it, you can’t escape it.

The true nature is the same for all totalitarian and authoritarian supporters, to bully others into silence or try to stir negative sentiment against an opponent so the real issues don’t have to be addressed directly. For those who want to deny others their opinion, everything is reduced to simple terms and those who don’t fall in line have to be attacked one way or another.

Its sad to see how our support for the criminals in the Middle East that keep stealing more and more land and treating more of the population as expendable has made us the target of the misled. Unfortunately we give them our money so they can repress the weak even more, yet we call ourselves a nation intent on spreading freedom? Freedom to do what? Pursue profits at the expense of our brothers, cousins, mothers, aunts and nieces?
Perhaps it’s time to dissolve the lies. Time to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Jed– Your argument would fly were it not for the fact that I havent done anything totalitarian towards you, nor expressed any vies that were simplistic in nature…if anything, I constantly try to instill the fact that life cannot be boiled down to basic good v. evil struggles, as life is too complex to be treated so simply. Disagreeing with you does not connotate that I want to shut you up. That said, you’re very predictable in your posting, even though you refuse to recognize it.

Case in point; you say I look at things in a simplistic way, i.e., “Two legs bad, four legs good.” Yet ironically, in reading your posts, you’re much worse at this than anyone else. All of your points get boiled down to basic stereotypes; all Republicans are racist, all police/soldiers are unthinking fascist pig automatons, it HAS to be government sponsored health care or no reform at all, all big business/business in general is evil, all people who disagree with Obama, for whatever reason, are “Reich Wingers.” So who is really using the simplistic, wrote formula of “two legs bad, four legs good” most often? Who is the one indiscriminantly painting with a broad brush, trying to peddle stereotypes and cliches?

That is where you’re predictable. Your posts all boil down to a basic formula; You sling an insult at whomever you’re addressing, ironically using the same tactics you attribute to others, launch into a basic “x, y, and z are evil and have to be destroyed, etc…”, ironically, in stereotypically cartoonish black and white terms, and for spice you’ll add a quote or reference from some artistic work you think is germane to the discussion (i.e., the Constantine, Animal Farm, and Imagine references). Then, if cornered with an argument you cant necessarily disprove, you’ll insult the others intelligence and move deeper and deeper into abstract esoterics to hide your own arguments holes in order to facillitate an out.

Again, all of this is not necessarily bad, just your basic SOP…which is why I find it highly ironic and amusing when you get incensed at people calling you out on it. You’re just as predictable as anybody else dude…as your posts attest, which are as indebted to your style as a fingerprint.

The Obama’s Administration’s decision to bring KSM and his cohorts to NYC to face justice is consistent with his world view. The United States needs to atone for its sins of being great and powerful. This latest trial of the century will serve as a giant mea culpa for America’s crime of being who it is.

Obama has now gone around the world apologizing for his imagined failings of the USA over its recent and past history. He has shown great deference in bowing and scraping to kings and emperors and little deference to the fighting men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. This decision to allow the mastermind of 9/11 to have one more bite at the Big Apple is just the latest in Obama’s apology tour.
Obama seeks to be a trans-formative president. In the domestic realm this is illustrated by his mania for socialized medicine and other policies that are designed to make the USA more like the social democracies of Western Europe. Internationally, Obama seeks to change the thrust of American foreign policy from being a leader to a humble servant of the international community.

Get ready for more bowing and scraping.

The American disdain for justice, equality and mutual prosperity around the world will cause the people to recognize that it is not the bastion of ‘freedom’ it promotes itself as.
We will be judged as a group for the transgressions of a maniacal few intent on the pursuit of wealth and power.
When the people of foreign origin and their progeny recognize the involvement of plutocrats in the destruction of their homelands and the oppression of their people, there will be a high price to pay.