-1. boo

We have a Russia policy? Obama appears to be as naive as the Bushboys about Putin’s intentions in Eastern Europe and elsewhere…if walks and talks like an autocrat, it is an autocrat, not a “man of today”, quoth the El Presidente…Putin has been playing the US like a fiddle for 8 years, the smart money is on him continuing his ways, regardless of what he tells Obama.

Exactly what changed with the policy, Tim? We’ve been systematically slashing nuclear arms arsenals for decades. Why do you think Palin would have anything to do with constructing U.S. foreign policy anyway? Do you meaning it’s a good thing Biden had nothing to do with the current Russia policy (or any policy for that matter)?

Now that Sarah has resigned will she still watch Russia from her porch?

Alright, I’ll take the bait…

You think The One is making all these decisions by himself? We all know he can’t do jack sh*t without his teleprompter. No matter who is elected President, they still have advisors. You make it seem like they would’ve been doing this all by themselves.

Most nuclear weapons by either side are “active.” They just sit broken apart and have to be assembled before launch. Those stored weapons would be the ones to go as they were the first to go in other treaties.

As far as McCain’s policy goes, he was for reducing nuclear weapons too. As VP, Palin would not have a say on policy.

Obama has his own policy problems for treaties. The current policy, ordered by the constitution, is for the congress to ratify any treaties. Obama plans to acknowledge and enforce any policy before ratification. In a worse case senerio he could try to bypass state, federal laws and court rulings with unratified treaties. Would Obama even be allowed to enforce this objective before ratification? Would Obama enforce this objective if congress said no? He already said yes to the first question, but we’ll have to wait on congress for the second answer.

CoCo… You’re so witty. Since we’re on year-old jokes, have you seen Jizz in My Pants?

I totally agree, we don’t need no stinkin’ missile defense. What’s a million dead Americans or Polish/Eastern bloc citizens anyway?

Jeff, it’s not as if she was making mistakes in speech. It’s not as if a speech class is going to improve her condescending, folksy, snarky attitude toward everyone who questions what she just said. The way she speaks, people need to ask follow-up questions just to find out the connecting analogies……..

Jeff, it’s okay to admit someone from your political party is an idiot. In fact, it’s quite easy.

CCo….fail.

Obama’s doing good on forigen policy, but not good on domestic, yes he inhereted the recession but theres no need for a massive overhaul of healthcare and stimulus needs to be targeted not belly up to the troth without accountabillity.

‘I totally agree, we don’t need no stinkin’ missile defense. What’s a million dead Americans or Polish/Eastern bloc citizens anyway?’ -TIMMY

Excuse me, but as a Polish-born emigre this is completely and deeply offensive, the sheer density of erroneous assumptions and conclusions wrapped in trite sarcasm is astounding. Firstly the missile defence system could never stop an actual barrage of missiles, even one reliably is quite the issue, especially with even the mere sophistication of the Russian arsenal.

Secondly, just like the misnomer in the Department of Defence, this missile ‘defence’ system is actually effective as a first-strike weapon much like a neo-STAR WARS (which worked PERFECTLY… …on two ocassions… in controlled conditions). {As an aside, STAR WARS’s efficacy was never the point. Its purpose was to funnel billions into R&D for the corporate/military sector, better computers, lasers, networks, printed circuits, it would then filter into the private sector in the form of the IT boom of the 90’s, win-win even if it failed. See! Regan loved big government stimulus too, only to corporations and not even the pretense of helping the working poor}.

Thirdly and importantly, the MAJORITY OF POLISH CITIZENS DON’T WANT YOUR F—ING MISSILES ON OUR LAND. Poll after Poll shows widespread opposition and if one of those missiles during a test or in effect were to malfunction, it would be at the expense of Polish lives. But you Americans never care about the actual opinion of countries you place your miscellaneous and dangerous s— in.

Fourthly, Poland has been occupied numerous, numerous times by warlord and empires in its history and yet there are few who would take credible a Russian assault on it now, there are those who fear it in the same way that Americans irrationally fear Muslims want to sneak over the Mexican border to detonate ’suitcase nukes’ (in reality much bigger than a suitcase) that will almost never fall into the hands of terrorists. It makes for unoriginal Hollywood scripts and blatant fear-mongering.

Fifthly, this exacerbates global tensions rather than assuages them, OBVIOUSLY. Also tensions inflame cyclically with brinksmanship.

Sixthly, Iran is not a nation of suicidal maniacs who want to wipe anything remotely American or Israeli shaped off the face of the Earth; it would be the primer for Iran being turned into glass. Iran has far more to fear than any Israeli or European in any eventuality. They don’t have spy satellites assiduously monitoring Israeli warhead stockpiles. Actually hear the opinions of the people rather than the hyperbolic President, read some of their news and opinion pages. Actually find out the opinion of people who are ultimately effected disproportionately by the policies you support but which won’t effect you.

In summation, you provide a representative example of why the rest of the world considers you thoughtless, arrogant self-centered imperialists who should meddle far less but principally ‘do no harm’.

T. Slothrop– At current estimates, if the polls are to be believed, Poles are 58% for the missile system. Perhaps after witnessing what happened in Georgia, they’ve begun to change their minds?

Furthormore, the missile system is not about protection, it’s about politically checking Russia more than anything else…that said, even if Poland refuses the missiles, the Ukraine, Slovakia, the Czech’s, the Hungarians, or someone else will probably relent to the money and the chance to stymie Russia.

While I tip my hat to your more sober analysis of US imperialistic aims, one should not underestimate the pourousness of the US-Mexico border, nor the ease with which one can attain nuclear materials–from ill guarded stockpiles in Kazakhstan, Pakistan, North Korea, not to mention Russian and even left over South African materials. So, the possibility that one could make a bomb, and sneak it into the US, is an increasingly real one. Have you ever tried to cross the border at Nogales? Not the best security, as the millions of illegals here can attest.

A complicated issue nontheless, but one I think this administration is bumbling just as others have before…

Well said. Thank you. But believe that not ALL in America suffer from the myopic global vision portrayed by a few commentors (sic) and, worse, a lot of the Right.

If there is a country to ‘fear’ in the world today, it is us. And yet, we can’t be ALL bad, you chose to live here yourself. Welcome and good luck. Keep your voice heard.

If America is so afraid of nuclear weapons, why do they have 10 thousand active ones? Does America really think that other countries aren’t going to try to develop what America already has?

If nuclear arms are the threat, then one must fear the person with the most: America

And, what does fear create? Defense.

Hypocritical American ideology reigns again. The legend of ‘American idealism’ roars its ugly head again.

American culture: Guns and greedy white men.

I find it hilarious that a Pol is lecturing on foreign policy and national defense. How many times has your country been invaded, occupied and otherwise humiliated?

RE: Merkwurdigliebe.

Prior to the Georgian-Russian conflict, 80% of Poles opposed system, afterwards the number is in line with what you quoted. But this growth of support is based on two erroneous assumptions; the missile system can prevent or contain Russian aggression and Russia has any desire or ability to attack or threaten Poland. A third would be that such a system would alleviate or ‘cancel-out’ tensions. It’s a reflexive and emotional reaction much like the overwhelming support for Bush after 9/11 which is obvious and very human, but no less unfortunate.

RE: DirtyDennis

I actually live in Sydney, Australia and view this site for Matt Taibbi’s brilliance. But of course you aren’t all bad, haha, you invented Jazz and John Coltrane {in my opinion, the greatest musician of all time} was an American. Miles Davis, Martin Luther King, W.E.B. DuBois, Thomas Pynchon, Noam Chomsky, Henry Miller, Langston Hughes, Derek Trucks, you guys are amazingly awesome in individual cases. When it comes to government, foreign policy and resisting institutional and social-political pressures however. This is important because of the American Empire, decisions in your country affect people globally disproportionately to decision-making in any another country and unlike you, people outside your 50 official states do not get to cast a vote (even with that vote meaning desperately little).

RE: blood for oil of olay

Innumerable times as much conflict reigned during the Medieval period where records and historiography were not prime issues of disparate towns and villages. However I don’t see how that effects the content of my arguments and I hope you have the intelligence to see how that’s a logical fallacy, an ad hominem to be precise. Would it be too much ask that you refrain from using them in the future?

Also Poland did defeat Russia handily in the 1912 Polish-Russian War, rebelled against German occupation and the Solidarity movement should be a model of non-violent social organisation against transnational oppression.

Dear T. Slothrop.,

Q: Why does the new Polish navy have glass bottom boats?

A: So they can see the old Polish navy.

They told me if I voted for John McCain, my country would look like it is run by people with a disturbing affinity towards fascism……And they were right!

The whole ‘defense’ industry is just a scam to take your tax money and give it to multicorporates (GE, ATT, Verizon, Level 3 com, Akamai, Microsoft,etc) that can’t get enough of feeding at the trough… and then they crash the economy so that the only available jobs for young men will be the military and the only available jobs for disposed of soldiers will be ‘Police Business’… nice.

Get ready folks, they are trying to screw up this country and they are doing a fine job of it. The rich have been getting uber-wealthy and now they want to tighten the screws on the lowly robots, good luck to all of us. If you don’t believe in a God, she’ll certainly abandon you. And if you say you do and act opposite to what you know is right, you’ll definitely help change what used to be paradise into hell.

we are relieved that someone has finally given us a voice. the ubsters have milked us and bilked us for too long! we just want to crawl down our hideyholes and eat government cheese but the overlords put microchips up ou butts and will track us down. them big multicorporates is makin us build sidekickers and chipsets and voiceactuated teletubular tic-tocs. got to be a better way to get government cheese.

why be a robot… be a human.
Why be a metal head merc warrior, fighting against your own brothers from your ‘cuby hole’, when you could be fighting against the forces of darkness arrayed against your homeworld?
Oh yea… the programming is hard to fight against and you prefer the easy path, the dark path, the rats path into the cheese hole that the pigs have led you to and forced you into.. perhaps you are merely a proud chicken that slinks like a snake and feeds at the money trough put before you by hoggs that see nothing around them because their overgrown ears get in the way.

In the end, it depends on whether you wish to be a war bot, a broken bot, a drone bot, or an advanced piece of machinery that has it’s own will and intelligence. In the end game, you still have made a choice.

Just say’n.

T. Slothrop, you might want to ask why you have the freedoms you do have today? Maybe because “Imperialist” Americans took up arms and died to help defeat Hilter in WWII? Or maybe because the “Great Satan”, according to the “peace loving Iranians”, President Ronald Reagan won the cold war? We are not asking for enduring gratitude but respect and acknowledgment of our efforts to democracy would be appreciated.

Sooth,

Reagan ‘won’ the cold war? That’s news.

And please point out all the countries where we installed democracy. Cuba with Batista? South Korea with Singman Rhee? China with Chiang? All those Central and South American countries with military dictatorships we supported.

Your revisionist history is remarkable.

Soothsayer, I certainly read history books and I suggest that you do as well. To elucidate why I have the freedoms that I do today accurately would require an essay whose length I could not commit to at this hour, for such mere purposes on such a forum.

I find it interesting that you put ‘”Imperialist”‘ in quotation marks, as if it is a subjective pejorative term. America is indeed an Empire, the most expansive and pervasive in history. The sun never sets on an American military base, it can flout U.N. resolutions at will without consequence, its culture permeates all other countries, it has established through commerce or violence client-states in every continent, it sends military aid to nations the more congruent they are with itself, it has installed oppressive regimes, it has launched numerous wars for material wealth or strategic gain and largely it does not honestly address the reality of itself.

And if you do have a love of history and truth, you could see perhaps a reflection in the self-belief in the noble rhetoric of Pericles in promoting Athenian imperialism. The installation of Cleruchies and the subjugation of rebellious city-states were brutal practices that in no way were mutually exclusive to the unprecedented freedom and organisation within Athens (for the eligible male population of course). In spite of contemporaneous criticism the assumption of Athenian exceptional-ism was a corrosive and powerful poison. It is self-praise and of course one is inclined to praise of oneself than criticism.

Now to where I agree with you; ‘Americans took up arms and died to help defeat Hilter’. I am very thankful you stated Americas role accurately, emphasis on help as 80% of German casualties occurred on the eastern front. Russia lost over 24 million of its people in the worst fighting in human history, the Volga turned red with blood in the Battle of Stalingrad.

It was also an imperial war for both Russia and America, look at the Potsdam conference.

Back to the points of contention, your denigrating quotation marks around ‘“peace loving Iranians”’ because it’s inconceivable that the Iranians are like any other human being who desires peace and comity. Iran is actually more westernised than you think, and much freer than Suadia Arabia internally and far more peaceful externally than Turkey (which committed the Armenian holocaust and oppressed violently the Kurdish population throughout the 90’s until today, but it still receives your taxpayer dollars in military aid to oppress them because they allow the use of their air space and military installations for American operations).

“We are not asking for enduring gratitude but respect and acknowledgment of our efforts to democracy would be appreciated.”

I cannot or have given my respect to any country as it is a nebulous, complex, dysfunctional cohesion of subsystems whose name can include anything, what is ‘America’ precisely? I care about the implications of my words. Acknowledgement for your efforts to promote democracy where justified, legal, moral and ethical with the result of actually promoting rather than ameliorating or ignoring democracy (if your government followed democracy and listened to the people of Iraq, your government would have invaded) will be given.

I certainly did not want to spend so long writing a response to your comment but I have currently have insomnia and felt it necessary in some small way to address as fully as I can someone who took the time to respond. Apologies for any misspelling or grammatical errors it is seven in the morning and I must try to sleep.

To Tim Dickinson; Robert Strange McNamara just died, no commentary thread about his passing? He was one of the principal architects of the war that this magazine birthed opposing.

It’s not revisionist history, DirtyOne. It’s pure fox noise. The continual perpetration of American idealism, which is rooted entirely in legend.

Why is it WE, America, are the only country that sees itself this way?

Guys like SoothSayer see the world through a lens that allows America to do whatever it wants, whenever it wants, to whoever it wants, for as long as it wants. As long as it’s a (white?)republican.

My thinking is that if Obama had invaded Iraq, Sooth’d be throwin a fit.

So, Merk. Seems to me that you claim to know Putin’s intentions better than people who have actually spoken to him. Or, is it ‘assumed intentions’ that you meant to say?

CLAP CLAP Sooth. Don’t let Dirty Dennis – The America loathing spin machine confuse things. He still can’t remember which one is Tina Fey and which one is Sarah Palin.

Ronald Reagan won the cold war,yeh right,Afganistan won the cold war by bleeding russia dry of money and arms,reagan had nothing to do with it.

And if were not careful,it will happen to us.In a sence it already has in Vietam.

BOOOOOOO

Sooth attacks again! Hey Sooth, why don’t you tell the families of the following oppressed AMERICAN groups:

Women
Blacks
Asia ns
Mexicans
Indians
Witches
Athiests
Homosexuals
etc.. ….

Civil unrest, not military intervention, changed things.

Keep waving that flag, though….”God Bless America…….land that we stole”

Democracy reinstalled: Italy, France, Germany, etc.

Democracy preinstalled:Japan and S Korea

And without the example and backing of the US, democracy very likely would have failed to thrive in Taiwan, Israel, Indonesia, Phillipines, Egypt, Iraq, Poland, Hungary, Czech Rep, Slovakia, Slovenia…

Some of those instances are more noteworthy than others and certainly there have been periods where rule has not lived up to the ideals we hold for democracy in the US, but in every case conditions have moved towards greater freedom and representation.

Failing to acknowledge this contribution to global prosperity and peace is not just shortsighted, it is exceedingly ignorant.

Coach– No, I dont have a mainline into Putin’s head…but having watched the man for over 8 years now, nothing in his recent actions have instilled in me any confidence. He as acted as such with much more impulsive men in the White House, I seriously doubt he’s going to take heed to Obama’s stern talking to.

Plus, I’m sure a guy like Putin would NEVER lie, now would he? Why would he do such an AWFUL thing like lie to Obama’s face, even if it would suit his own interests!? Why that would never happen, now would it? I mean, dictators are always trustworthy right? Surely there’s some examples in history of trusting dictators at their word…how did those examples turn out Coach?

So you can choose to believe an autocrat who’s made himself de facto dictator of Russia, imprisoning and killing off his rivals, and is returning Russia as an international force (i.e., blitzkrieg-ing into Georgia, bullying Belarus, the Ukraine, and at points, Germany, with jacking up natural gas prices, meddling with anti-US people in Venezuela, Iran, and other points around the globe, etc). He’s repositioning Russia on the world’s stage, trying to put Russia back as another superpower…and to do so, he has to play hardball with the US, even if you want to be dumb enough to believe all his nice-nice talk.

But go right ahead Coach, believe everything a dictator tells you…after all, its not like they’re untrustworthy or anything…

TS,

Very good young man. Get some sleep.

Ole,

Contesting someone’s misstatements should not be construed as a definitive argument. Granted, this country HAS had a hand in the formation of democratic-based governments.

I DO have to take exception with some of your choices, however. The Philippines, for example, is one of our least admirable efforts at Imperialism, but then, we were just beginners then. We butchered THOUSANDS of those who we supported in the Spanish-American war because they had the temerity to demand independence. Damn their eyes!! We continued the butcher right up until WWII; thereafter, we were on a more global scale and didn’t bother with the country, allowing them their independence.

Taiwan? Correct me if I’m wrong, but Chiang Kai Chek (pardon the spelling) ruled there as a despot, with our military aid, as he did in mainland prior to his ouster. The Chinese people wrested that country away from us. Same with South Korea.

And I’d be interested to know what we did in Eastern Europe to foster ‘democracy.’ I’m keenly curious as to know what steps we’ve taken to abet such struggling entities as Ukraine, Belarus and the like.

TS,

Your posts seem to ‘appear’ long after others. I missed your ‘introduction.’ And I’m pleased you pointed out the solidarity movement in Poland. I was going to mention it but forgot. The U.S. was SO helpful in that development.

The U.S. embodies the best and worst ‘man’ has to offer. We are no better nor no worse than any other people. However, we SHOULD be since we have the lesson of history to ‘guide’ us but, alas, we seem to be caught up so much in our hubris that we fail to see the obvious.

I could add my personal favorites to your list of outstanding personages, but that would be grandstanding. Offsetting them are some nefarious villains that sully our good name.

We don’t have a Mozart or Beethoven, but we have a Copeland and Joplin. We have Hemingway and Steinbeck and some pretty damned good scientists. We just need, however, to turn out a few more Lincolns and Roosevelts. They’re pretty tough to duplicate, however.

I believe it was you, or another, who said the Afghanis did as much as anyone to topple the Soviet regime. In the 50s and 60s we had a statesman named of Averill Harriman who lost repute amongst many for saying that the Soviet system would collapse under its own weight. He doesn’t get enough credit for his foresight.

More TS,

I, too, was taken by the absence of any mention of Robert Macnamara. I had forgotten the roots of RS and the link to ‘his’ war.

It’s a new generation and we are, again, overlooking history.

I notice that there isn’t a DENIAL of American imperialism. I notice that it’s being condoned by all the ‘good’ we’ve done.

Eyes of the Beholder

Sloth-
I don’t see the ad hominem. I wasn’t attacking YOU, I was attacking your hughly subjective characterizations. Regarding Polish history, I was referring to the last two hundred years or so.

The ‘content of your arguments’ suggests to me that you are advocating a foreign policy rooted in pascifism and appeasement. To the extent that this approach has been practiced in Poland towards its numerous oppressors, I would argue that this is not a policy that those who enjoy or aspire to freedom should emulate.

To be sure, the example of Solidarity is something to be admired. Still, in the context of a crumbling Soviet Union, the achievement is not quite as significant. Also, it is hard for me to understand how a culture could allow something as horrificly unjust as the Katyn massacre to remain out of the public discourse for decades. What were gentile Poles doing while Germans were gassing Polish Jews?

Sure the French Revolution was a bloody mess, but what efforts to win greater freedom by Poles from that period have had a meaningful impact on the advancement of freedom worldwide? I should point out that I have tremendous respect for the Polish culture. At the same time, I recognize that it is a very different culture from my own.

When it comes to preserving my freedom and prosperity, though, I think I will have to lobby for a more aggressive stance towards my enemies than the Polish option. By the way, I do not regard this as paranoid or reactionary. I merely recognize that there exists a tremendous degree of sentiment which is aligned against my better interests and willing to cause violence to achieve its purposes. Whether that sentiment is aggregated in a state or promulgated by a religion or something entirely different is hardly of any importance to me. I do not delude myself into believing that this sentiment is some externality being imposed on certain populations. On the other hand, your arguments seem to suggest that aggression towards the US is a direct result of US policies. This is too rational to be intellectually satisfying to me. The idea that something as pervasive as resentment for the US as a nation is some universally rational response to policy is laughable at best. Rather, I view this as an purely animal response to the prosperity we enjoy. It is not surprising that the strength of this resentment, as indicated by the risk-level of actions taken to oppose the US and its policies, is inversely proportional to the general prosperity among a given non-US population. Yes yes, Canadians despise us, but few are actively planning the demise of large groups of Americans.

BFOOO, regarding your last comment about Canadians. From my dealings, which have led to me meeting about 200 canadians, they more or less laugh at us. They laugh at our enslavement to the insurance industry. They laugh at our marijuana laws. They laugh at our lobbying.

From what I see, they’re generally very laid back, self-sufficient people. In fact, there’s more freedom in Canada than here……..from this end!

Regarding any of our other enemies, they sprout like weeds. Once you knock one of them out, here comes another one. Vicious circle. Coming up with a way to eliminate all enemies would be ideal, but I’m not sure the MIC would ever allow that…….

Coach-
That bit about Canadians was supposed to be toungue in cheek. I don’t think they despise us. I agree that many find us laughable. I was feebly attempting to suggest that if US policy was truly unjust enough to warrant violent resistance that it would likely provoke that response among Swiss and Canadians as much as it does Saudi terrorists for example. I suppose that I was trying to say that violent resistance is more correlative to the ambient deprivation versus a reasoned response to injustice. Perhaps it is as you suggest, new weeds sprouting as fast as they can be eliminated. This does not necessarily imply that US policy is a zero sum game. Rather, it is more plausible that in fact US policy is only a small component of a much more complex dynamic which includes a culture of violence, exacerbated by local economic stagnation and other social problems. The US cannot and should not answer for these unfortunate circumstances. Where would Japan be today if it had adopted a culture of defeatism perhaps evolving an offshoot violent shintofascist insurgency to counter US occupation and culture transfer?

Just think, Ole, if the Japanese had followed that course, there would be no Godzilla, no Honda, no Sony and the U.S. would have a better chance in the World Baseball Championship.

We’d all be driving limousines and ingesting half-cooked red meat. Mmmm, good.

And don’t forget, the whale population would be decimated as well. Looks like we DO have something to be proud of.

What’s that?
The U.S. ‘ignored’ Japan? And left it to MacArthur and the U.S. Army?
You don’t say. Wow!! Just like Germany.

Obama ordered the release of five Qods (also spelled Qud) Force (Iranian special operations force) commanders that were captured in Iraq. They, known as the “Irbil Five” were some of those responsible for arming, training and leading the Shiite forces which when after mostly other Iraqis, but also went after U.S. and other forces. The liberals are backing Obama saying that these guys were low level (there are no high level U.S. special force operatives or CIA field agents either) and diplomats (Iran had no trouble accusing U.S. diplomats of spying and taking them prisoner). Allowing a known enemy to be loose on purpose is no relief.

Oh and dumping a plan to use snipers to kill terrorists instead of using bombs and missiles to kill them (and everyone else in the area) is again not a relief.

C’mon Greg,

NO ONE has said the plan was ‘bad.’ It was keeping it a secret that was bad. It’s a GOOD plan but one the CS Formad didn’t have the guts to reveal. The question becomes, obviously, what other violations of the law were undertaken by Formad in the ‘interest’ of national security? THEIR national security, certainly not ours.

You think al queda (sic) leaders didn’t think/KNOW they were targeted. Telling the world certainly wouldn’t have ‘tipped our hand.’ Remember Georgie Porgie’s deck of cards?

It wasn’t kept “secret.” Look at the Constitution. It’s the president’s job to command the armed forces and President Bush (and most likely President Obama) was informed. The Democratic congress members want to play arm chair generals and then blab all over the place an operation that would have best be kept secret. Now the Taliban and Al Qaeda will be looking for that kind of operation.

The senators are horrible at keeping military secrets anyways. No wonder nobody wants to tell the senators anything secret. Democratic senators Sen. Rockefeller, Sen. Durbin and Wyden blabbed to the press in 2004 about a classified intelligence satellite program. The Republicans are no better. Sen. Shelby was leaking secrets to the press in 2002 about intel gathered against Al Qaeda. All those senators were on intelligence comittees.

Pelosi and Reid were notified of the secret locations (Pelosi even went and saw these secret locations) and interrogation techniques and now Pelosi said she was never informed. Who says that Pelosi and Reid were not informed about any covert operation attempts?

Also it looks like the CIA chief, Panetta, is also not good at keeping secrets. This should have been between him and the president. No wonder nobody told him. Panetta should be fired immediately for this “blow up.” After all it’s Panetta’s job to keep any covert operations secrets even if he is out of the loop.

The Constitution ALSO directs the Prez to enforce the laws of the land. In 1947, Congress passed the national security act, directing the Prez to inform ’select’ members of that organization of any and ALL intelligence activities. (There were some caveats but this ‘episode’ CLEARLY did not meat them.)

So, according to you, Greg, the Prez gets to cherry-pick which laws he enforces. Good lead-in to a totalitarian regime, which is, after all, what you want. Of course, you want ‘YOURS’ to be the totalitarians.

You can do better than that.

You mean the The Intelligence Authorization Acts of 1991 and 1992. The same kind of covert acts were done since the 1950s. The Iran Contra operation changed that. 2004 has yet another intelligence act. Those acts basically have to say that certain people have to be notified of covert operations.

These were not covert operations. They were plans, started in 2001, to launch covert operations and it never got off the planning stage. The idea was to send small assassination teams to a location to kill terrorists. How that was to actually work was never put in place.

What ended up happening is the CIA went to use drone to launch missles to kill terrorists and to capture terrorists and put them in secret prisons (I already mention Sen. Pelonsi’s tour).

Now Panetta with his big mouth has killed any covert alternative to using drones to killing terrorists and the Democrats have helped spread the word because they are more interested in going after Bush and Cheney than trying to limit collateral damage.

Greg: “These were not covert operations. They were plans, started in 2001, to launch covert operations and it never got off the planning stage.”

One must remember that ideology is based on who/what you believe.

Greg, I think it’s a worldwide consensus that one must STOP believing Dick Cheney. Sounds like you still do…….or at least the spewing heads on Fox….

So, we’ll send an assassination group to go look for Bin Laden, but we’ll never give them the go-ahead…..yeah, that’s the ticket. That way it’ll always be in the ‘planning’ stage.

Right… much better to have a President that is hell bent on appeasement as it’s primary policy goal.

“Hell bent on appeasement…”

Seriously? No, that’s not an absurdly radical statement…….

Greg-D what a dunderhead you and your whole team from Fox are. Rememeber the election? The adults are in charge now.

All your lying, torturing leaders that never served their country – because they had “entitlement deferrments”- have been booted.
And you and Fox cant stand it, because you admire the lying, torturing leaders that have played you like a friggin violin: “be afraid, be very afraid!!!” Of the gays, the evil guvermnt, women who want to control their bodies and family choices (instead of the guvermnt you supposedly hate), those that will take away ALL your gun-toys. You are just a fearful pansy ass.

Grown ups are brave because they have to be – there are no “easy” answers to real problems – “easy” is only for cheap shots and fear-mongering. So you have to take some risk to fix America, that lying Cheney and puppet-W screwed up for all of us.

So, as Archie bunker would have told you, take your band of whinning hypocrats to the “time out corner, and Stifle Yourselves.

(Love your Repub KKK leaders in the Sotomayor heargs by the way. Sessions had to stop from calling her an “uppity wetback” at least a few times. I LOVE it for 2010. Yes, he was publically a total racist in his lifetime. Great American party you support.)

The U.S. military hand delivered leaflets threatening to target two Afghan villages if the recent U.S. soldier, that was taken prisoner, is not released. That’s Hillary’s and Obama’s “smart power?” That’s more like “dumb power.” What do these villages have to do with the Taliban? Nothing.

Greg,

Your thinking is convoluted beyond belief. Let’s call it the Limbaugh Effect. You know doubt grew up listening to his drivel and it’s easy to see how light-weight minds could be unduly effected.

Unless there was a White House coup recently, Robert Gates is STILL the Secretary of Defense, the same, methinks, as was with Formad. Mr. Gates replaced Mr. Rumsfeld, if you will recall, to assure this country that military decisions were being made by the military, NOT the politicians.

If Mr. Obama AND Ms Clinton are able to enforce their political will upon Mr. Gates, that would seem to provide further proof they are FAR stronger than their limp-wrist predecessors.

Refresh my memory: how long were we in Afghanistan under Formad? How successful were we? Were I you, I’d same the lame blame game until we get into the later innings.

Ofcourse not Dennis. Greg is going to revel in trivialities just like his friends CCo and D&C, etc.

Coming soon to a theater near you:

Greg claims Obama invaded Iraq.
Greg claims Obama outsourced the search for bin laden
Greg claims Obama is the reason the towers went down.
Greg claims Obama is at fault for Katrina.
Greg claims Brownie is still doing a heckuva job.

Haven’t you guys seen the wire?

None of this matters, cause everything sucks!

Seriously though, do you guys think you’re going to convince each other? You’re all too stubborn to accept each others arguments. You’re all partisan, just admit it.