You are a clueless dumbass – Rush is Right so Right. The rich will always own this country.

You are a clueless dumbass – Rush is Right so Right. The rich will always own this country.

Turk you are a Jerk and so is Rush… Shut your pie hole and ride the blue wave of Liberal Love.

lol @ turk, its the right wing that supports the wealthy classes over the middle and lower class. we just had eight years of it which lead us to this current mess (despite what you drones on the right seem to think it wasn’t nancy pelosi..or the gays)…and you think your boy rush is not one of those ‘rich who will always own this country’ ?
theres a clueless dumbass here alright, but its not tim

Rush Limbaugh Angry? Talk about missing the message (again) liberals. Limbaugh is no Howard Dean. You clearly didn’t see the same speech the rest of America did. lol

Rush is an entertainer and his message is mostly “ugly” as RNC Chairman Steele points out.

If the GOP is adrift, then the DEMs are sinking along with the economy. 2010 can’t come a day too soon!

If the GOP is adrift, then the DEMs are sinking along with the economy. 2010 can’t come a day too soon!

Drug addict and blow hard that only makes $$ when things are riled up.

Rush in black, like Johnny Cash, looks kinda “masculato” better try Don Ho Hawaiian shirt, go Jimmy Buffet look..suck ‘em up..Fatboy.

Tkav, what EXACTLY is ugly about Rush’s message and becuase you disagree that isn’t “ugly”.

I think Rush Limbaugh is perfect for the Republican Party. First, the RNC yukked it up over racist CD’s, making it clear that non-whites weren’t welcome. Then, in a panic, they promoted Jindal and Steele to the top in a form of GOP affirmative action, posts they weren’t ready for. After that disaster, its on to Rush Limbaugh, who is driving all the women out of the party. They better start cloning southern white men because they are going to need 30,000,000 more of them than currently exist to win back the presidency. LOL!

Rush Limbaugh is truly the face of the GOP. I am amazed at the things he says, the totally verifiable lies, half-truths, and misdirections that point to his true agenda. The destruction of the Democratic Party, even if it means the United States dies with it. And folks, just remember that Hitler got started during an economic crisis, when people were desperate, and he spouted rhetoric and propaganda, spread by incendiary speeches. This man, and the others of his ilk, would have a nation that none of us would want to live in. Be an AMERICAN, not a Republican. Be an American, not a Conservative. Be an AMERICAN. Support AMERICA. Her peoples, her systems, her laws.

Jed Clampett

Hey TD, did you know your link to the AIG story is broken? Might want to fix that if you want it to get some traction.
BTW- Interesting story you linked to within. Shows what irresponsible behavior and greed can do to a global economy. Isn’t that a crime somewhere?

Part of the problem is all the RINOs in the Republican party. These are skilled politicans that became Republicans only because the Republican Party had the money and resources of the time. If you had an R by your name, you could win and so people wanted R’s by their name. Once those people drift over to the Democrats so they can have a D by their name, then the Democrats will lose their voice to a bunch of individualists that really don’t believe in the Democrat’s ideals. Once those people are going then the Republican voice will be much more coherent and the Democratic voice will be more of a white noise.

Obama hasn’t done much yet in terms of creating anger among the American people. There hasn’t been a terrorist attack on U.S. soil (although drug trafficing attacks from Mexico are on the rise), Iran and or North Korea haven’t blown up a country and so far Obama hasn’t publically tried to get the Global Poverty Act (based on his bill S.2433) passed. Obama and the Democrats will eventually under react or over react to enough situations to give the Republicans a voice. Right now it’s just not a good time since the press still worships Obama. Eventually they will tire of Obama like they did Clinton and attack Obama like they attacked Clinton. Any attempt now to do something is just giving the press fodder to still hate the Republicans.

56% of women voters voted for Obama. It’s not like Rush is keeping the women away. It’s just that they tend to vote Democratic anyhow. Women can only vote once no matter how much they hate Rush.

By 2016, the Republicans will probably be back on top again as Obama and the Democrats will be running out of excuses blaming Bush. Some think that even 2012 will be a bad year for Obama.

Go Rush! The liberal kooks are going to destroy this country!

Truly unbelievable. The economic markets are rejecting/laughing at obama’s “leadership” and the left is rallying against Rush? He is a talk show host – obama needs to get some perspective and act like he belongs in government.

What’s clear is Rush has spent the better part of the past two decades skewering the left on its own rhetoric via humor, and they hate it. Their politics of personal destruction have left him unmarked. And he laughs all the way to the bank.

The bigger picture – Rush is not in goverment. The more you demonize him the more popular he becomes. The leftist, Neo-Marxist policies of obama have injured the capital markets and given Rush more material than he can handle. In the meantime, the left tries to blame Rush and others for the panic they created. We’ve got it – obama is incompetent – but you have to scapegoat other to protect him. Good luck

I hope nobody is taking that neo-con rush limbaugh seriously. I hope we have finally awoke to the fact that it is time to let the grownups take charge, and that we don’t slide back into that insanity we have all had to live through over the last eight years.I mean come on,haven’t we learned anything?

Let’s be adults about this. The truth is Rush Limbaugh has a famously small organ. I mean really little, like a tiny acorn bump.

Frankly, Rush, like many of his DittoHead fans, has spent his adult life compensating for this lack of stature by hating the women he could never satisy, and by hating the black man, who is sexually powerful in ways he can never be.

And look at all the trouble one missing testicle caused the world in the 20th century…

All our problems are due to the democrats we Republicans are nice little religious Angels who would never act immorally or uncaring towards people of lesser means we only want whats best for the country and Government are truly bad for everyone, especially for profits Obama is the antichrist and all this economic problms is his fault we hope he fails because we are patriots and he is Hitler reborn

Tim-
Point of order, that would be Heath Shuler – no c.

I think it’s a little bit of a stretch to revel in Limbaugh’s status as some anti-lodestone for the Democrats. They can love to hate him all they want, but hen it comes to formulating a real agenda hating Limbaugh isn’t going to get them very far. In my opinion, success in terms of a Democrat consolidation of power is going to depend on 1) how well recovery appears to correlate to specific recovery policies and 2) the ability of Obama to minimize US military commitments overseas. We can get back to the culture war when conditions improve.

Jed Clampett

TD, please fix the link that jumps to the AIG post. It goes to the bit bucket.

Jed Clampett

YESS!!! the president has called for bypassing the banks and lending directly to consumers for the purchase of cars, homes and education, etc. This is perfect, just what we need to unplug the manipulated credit markets.

Power, when wielded appropriately, a kid with a slingshot can bring down a giant.

My guess is that the Fed is counting on the psychological impact of this move just as much as the actual the intended effect it will have on spending. I think they are trying to pick yesterday’s market fiasco as ‘the bottom’.

Let us hope.

And I wouldn’t put TOO much emphasis on young Rush’s role in Democratic thinking. Setting him up as a straw man makes for an ideal diversion, albeit lame, from the woes of the time.

Anyone who takes the man serious need seek counseling.

Jed Clampett

Fresh Aire just had an economist from the Sloan School of Business that has also worked in this kind of economic collapse in other countries. A very interesting and telling interview, you might want to listen to it and learn a bit more about this fiasco.

Power, words are the conveyance of it, those who abuse words also abuse power, typically to manipulate.

Limbaugh needs to realize that the old gig he’s been pawning off for years has probably started to get a little moldy. The man that coined the term feminazi is probably a little out of synch with the times. I don’t think Democrats can depend on him to deliver the midterm election though. That is what we’re talking about, right? There is going to have to be some big changes or people are just going to change their minds about who started this economic mess we’re in. Democrats need to put forward policies that match up with the ones they ran on.

Dirty D

“Anyone who takes him seriously,need seek counciling”

Perhaps DD, but your comment needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You have admitted to never listening to him. In most circles, that would be considered an uneducated opinion.

You’re better than that DD.

SO sorry PC. When I say I NEVER listen to him, I mean it. And I haven’t listened to him in twenty years. I suppose he ‘may’ have gotten ‘better,’ but it’s been my experience, “Once a jerk, always a jerk.”

Rush is a genius, DD. You are missing out in a big way. I only get to listen to him once a week or so, but man, when I do, I feel like I’m in heaven. There is nothing like a vegan delite sandwich, a bag of ruffles, an ice-cold bottle of coca cola, and that thumping bass line coming over the airwaves on a sunny day. Small pleasures like these fill me with hope.

hope: it’s not just a four-letter word, it’s the simultaneous presence of heart, mind and scooby-doo!

I kind of look at it like this. Rush is an a$$hole and makes money by being a lightning rod, in much the same sense that Jesse Jackson is an a$$hole and makes money by being a lightning rod. There are many Republicans that agree with Rush, as there are many blacks that agree with Jesse Jackson, but you can’t say that Rush speaks for the whole party just as you can’t say Jesse Jackson speaks for all blacks.
However, any Republican that runs for office, knows that Rush wields just enough power and influence among Repubs to derail a campaign, just as Jesse Jackson carries just enough power and influence among blacks to derail a campaign by a black person (or at least anyone on a Dem ticket).
Kudos to the Dems for exploiting Rush’s idiocy and using that to make political gains. While he isn’t the “leader” of the party he is unfortunately the one with the biggest fcuking mouth.

Dirty D

“Anyone who takes this man seriously,needs to seek counceling”

Perhaps DD, you would be taken more seriously if you actually listened to Rush. You’ve admitted to not have. As have most of the Rush critics on this blog.
You could conclude that you would most likely disagree with everything that Rush says, without listening to him. You’re a progressive liberal. He’s a conservative. That would be a logical conclusion. But to suggest that he’s not an intellegent thinker and he’s not to be taken seriously is intellectually dishonest.
I read many articles or listened to many liberals that I consider serious thinkers. I just disagree with them.
You might as well review a book you’ve never read or a movie you’ve never seen.
I’m not suggesting that you listen to Rush but you should not make comments based on hear say.
Come on DD, you’re better than that.
That’s why many cons consider libs condesending and arrogant. Looking down their nose at those who disagree with them.

Sorry PC, didn’t make myself clear. I’ve heard Rush plenty, but not in the past twenty years. Never means never again.

But Ole, different strokes for different folks and we ARE different, I believe. At least in our outlooks. You go enjoy and I’m happy/jealous for you.

Jed Clampett

The fact that he’s listened to by so many makes him a force to be contended with and closely scrutinized.
The fact that he’s the mouthpiece for the right wing gives him a connection to a political party and therefore responsibility for his words and the response it generates.
The fact that some find him ‘entertaining’ as he surreptitiously and repeatedly calls for the failure of the people’s choice for president while the part of society he represents ignores history and obfuscates the public’s perception of their own part in the economic collapse we are experiencing makes him dangerous and legally imputable for violating the responsibility that is inherent in the first amendment.
He can with ease, and is doing so, manipulate the collective consciousness of a large segment of society which finds his vitriol ‘entertaining’ and then repeats it as a valid tool of stifling political discourse, this puts him in the same class as Goebbels and other media manipulators like the radio man that riled the Hutus against the Tutsis in Rwanda in 1994.

Does no one really understand the power and therefore the responsibility bestowed upon the media? Or is watching the moral collapse of your nation seem that ‘entertaining’ and mundane?

Power, to wield it against your own government is the definition of treason. To do so in order to cover up a crime is conspiracy.

DD-
Thanks for the endorsement. My vegan delite sandwich is in the fridge and the sun is shining. I will be EIB thumpin’ in less than 90 minutes.

Jed-
You repeatedly demonstrate that you are really a closet aristocrat at heart. You seem to be fascinated with the concept of capturing and holding power. Is this just a sad indication of your own feckless and impotent existence or do you really think you are truly fit to be the arbiter of moral virtue and good taste? Power is not ‘bestowed’ on the media. The freedom of the press is a blessing of liberty and as such it is recognized under the law that government has no authority to grant or abridge this liberty. Are you familiar with the Constitution, The Bill of Rights?

gosh, since you guys at the stone refuse to go back to music and continue to stumble through politics, why no visti stephanie cutter, flack for tres sec geithner, late of kerry and kennedy. why not hire her to work with taibbi?lol!!

gosh, since you guys at the stone refuse to go back to music and continue to stumble through politics, why no visti stephanie cutter, flack for tres sec geithner, late of kerry and kennedy. why not hire her to work with taibbi?lol!!

Jed Clampett

OK, I guess I will entertain myself a bit after all…

Let’s assess your post before deciding whether it’s worth responding to. You start off with 3 sentences designed to insult and deprecate the opponent, that in itself reveals you have no valid argument and must therefore impugn the contenders validity through inanities. What a cheap and histrionic tactic.
Then you follow it with two sentences that reveal you yourself have little real understanding of the documents you cite in the next sentence so they are hardly worthy of a second look.
As for the last sentence, yes, very, enough to recognize that people who are born and ‘educated’ here have no real understanding of those documents and would obviously wipe their anal sphincter with them if it suits them and seems profitable at the time. A typical mistake of the Ferengi on any part of the political spectrum.
What’s funny is that you keep telling yourself that you live in a democracy when you really subsist in a plutocratic corpocracy.

Since you aren’t even worthy of an enriching debate, I say to you. Go entertain yourself somewhere else, SIR. Go fill your brain and soul with Rush and O’Really and Scarborough and their ilk, that seems to be your preferred form of entertainment and enrichment. Unless you are a pyromaniac, if so, you may just set your own “straw man’s” house aflame.
If, on the other hand you truly wish to learn something, I suggest you watch the STOPandLOOK series from youTube, if your limited attention span can tolerate it.

Power, if mishandled and left in the hands of fools it can set our home on fire.

Jed-
It would be interesting to hear you elaborate on the ferengi and sphincters, but for now would you be so kind as to address the issue of power being ‘bestowed’ upon the media?

I wonder if the Hatch Act (1939)comes into play here. Basically no federal employee can engage in partisan political activity. I have a feeling that the Obama administration and the Democrats in Congress have been ignoring the Hatch Act. Is Obama and the Democrats have been using federal money and government material to bash the Republicans and Rush L.? Obama has asked people to repay Clinton’s debt which is a known violation of the Hatch Act (President Reagan was busted for the same offense while trying to raise money for Bush Sr.).

Jed Clampett

If I thought your intent was anything but malice I would be ’so kind’.
Therefore let me explain…

Jed-
Malice – I am shocked! I am trying to educate you, Sir. My only desire is to drag you into the light. Perhaps from time to time, my posts push the limits of good taste, but you must know that malice is anything but my intent.

Blood – You can’t educate those that know everything already. Please don’t encourage him.

Indeed

Dirty D
No problem. But twenty years is a long time. Must have been on one station back then.

I listen to Rush much less frequently than I used to, years ago. There`s a lot more choices out there. Thanks to Rush, he paved the path.

But I`d rather talk about liberal hypocrisy. Such as the Fairness Doctrine (UNFAIRNESS DOCTRINE) being pushed by prominent libs in congress and I believe supported by Obama, in spite of his public statements to the contrary.
A full attack on opposition free speech. Now that`s a real progressive value!!
Not our fault that liberal talk radio can`t get enough people to listen to them to succeed.

I guess 90% of the print media, all the major news networks except FOX, 100% of the entertainment pop culture ie: Rolling Stone, and just about every university professor, isn`t fair enough for you guys.

Why is only talk radio being targeted? No need to answer.

Jed, as much as I despise Rush Limbaugh, he’s not even in the same league as Joseph Goebbels or Georges Ruggiu and it makes you sound foolish to make such comparisons. While Rush might be a pompous, arrogant prick, and uses his forum to make himself rich, he’s neither promoting violence or genocide as was done by Goebbels and Ruggiu. He has no more violated the “responsibility that is inherent in the first amendment” than any of the other media bullies including the likes of Randi Rhodes and others over the last eight years. The only difference is no one listens to them.

Jed Clampett

Funny, some folks have to wait till the manipulators rise to the levels of heinous crimes before they recognize the evil intent. Considering only 30% of the public can even name the three branches of government, it’s not surprising. What is this great nation’s placement in education in the world? does it make you proud?

Power, by educating the populace they are endowed with what they need to protect themselves. Therefore the elites have diluted educational entities as much as possible.

For turk;If the rich will run the country,Why didn’t one of the famous rich one’s like trump or forbes become president?Is being to rich making people dumb?

Where to find a smart ass for a president when the world needs one.Name one please.Just one rich,smart and economy concious,that will do a very good job in his or her four year term as president of the nation.

Jed– Remember, thanks to the 1st Amendment, Rush has the right to say what he wants, when he wants (to a reasonable degree). Simply because you disagree with the man’s viewpoints doesnt make him Goebbels, or whatever other hyperbole you want to put on him. You have the option in this country not to listen to Rush if you choose, ala DD…either all speech is sacred under the 1st Amendment, or none of it is. If people like to listen to Rush, then so be it. He may be a loudmouth, but he’s certainly not stirring up violence, at least any more than those on the left did during the Bush years…if you do, please cite examples

Free Speech, its great until Jed disagrees with it or finds it contrary to his worldview…meet the new boss, same as the old boss..ugh

republicans are best, we have all the money and that proves we are better than anyone else

we have the best debaturs becose rush teaches us to stand up for ourselves, we are always right becose we have the guns

republicans will win the civil war because we care about life

thanks oreillei for the manual on culture wars

long live limbaugg and the republicans
death to liburals, gays and baby killers

Jed Clampett

Oh, hi Glib, hadn’t seen you in a long time, did zed break out his key and finally let you out of the box for a while?
Have you ever seen ‘Raising Cain’? Of course not, way before your time.
Anyway, hope the mask isn’t restricting your breathing too much, but then again you probably have a different method of breathing, probably similar to the way you speak. Hope your retentiveness doesn’t restrict you too much.

Power, without the appropriate education, it’s like giving a monkey a razor blade. Watch out, no one is safe. Just wait, he’ll eventually slice himself all up.

Nope Jed, still the same old me, not possessed by whatever demons you’re conjuring up at the moment.

Again, the point, as you so delightfully sidestepped and obfuscated, Rush, whether you agree with him or not, has a right to say what he wants. I may disagree with the man wholeheartedly, but to paraphrase Rousseau, I will defend his right to say it to the death…besides, its a bit ridiculous as others (SITM, Ole) have pointed out to compare Rush to Nazi’s or the Rwandan Genocide…a bit over the top, dont you think?

Verbosity, it makes the fool a genius to the hobgoblin of little minds…

Politico has a good article on how this Rush bashing is a calculated effort by the Democratic puppet masters.

Truth: Hard to find while you are polling on it.

the bush administration just ruined the country as we’re in a recession edging into a depression and in a war in irag when osama is still running free.
i want our troops back home safely and if you people can’t tell when an an admistration such as the bush crew has screwed our country then you are blind or can’t see or hear.
just look at all the layoffs and the terribel struggles.
it always happens when we have a crew serving the wealthy.
we end up with increases in unemployment,wars,huge deficits.
i mean people might have been taught to think that it’s the only way to go but you know you can also think for yourselves.
Right?
Rush rather have Obama fail and the thus have america worsen and destruct then see his own country succeed just because a democrat is in house!
what a traitor to the usa!

If any one is really paying attention Limbaugh responded that since the Clinton Assasin Team that Obama has in place (Carville, Stephanopoulous,Begala, Emanuel etc)has declared him the head of the Republican Party he would like to debate the head of the Democratic Party (Obama). Fat chance of that….Obama won’t debate anybody unless it has been set up by his buddies in the “in the tank” Mainstream media….no tough questions now!!!! And while these clowns in Washington are trying to divert everyone’s attention, the economy continues to tank!!! Instead of worrying about Rush Limbaugh somebody needs to be communicating with Wall Street!! We just continue to be inundated with pathetic politicians and big D Dickinson lovers.

Easy Sooth, easy. Just which ‘puppet masters’ might that be? The ones who annointed Clinton next Prez? Howard Dean who’s out of a job? Please illuminate us.

If ANYONE marches to a common drum, it’s the Right. Ever hear of ANY Republicans voting for a Democratic Prez? Nada, nil, zip, zero.

Just in case it escaped thee, the GOP is the standard bearer party in this country and the Democrats are the party of opposition. About the only thing we agree on is our distaste for the Right.

Nice spin, though. Practicing for better things, are we?

Dirty Dennis–you are delusional. I, my brother and several of my friends were all life-long moderate Republicans. We all voted Democrat in this last election and prayed that the Republican Party would be defeated this time. We all were embarrassed and horrified by Bush, Rove and the neocons who turned the presidency into a dictatorship over the last 8 years and completely alienated most of the world. In fact, I was so horrified with the last 8 years that I switched parties so that I could participate in the Democratic party at the local level. BTW, we’re all in our 60s. Today’s Republican Party is an ugly stepchild of what our beloved Republicna Party used to be. As far as I’m concerned, it’s totally DEAD.

Easy Mango, Easy.

I believe it was the elephantine Mr. Limbaugh who ‘challenged’ Mr. Obama to come on his show to ‘debate.’ What a crock; to get better ratings and more $$$ for Tubby. Do you expect ANYONE to get a fair shake in Rush The Hut’s House? Get real.

Better check, too, when the economy WENT in the tank. All the sinking in the past two months have been the result of earning reports, or lack thereof, of the previous quarter which, correct me if I’m wrong, was under Formad’s watch.

The degradation of America didn’t JUST happen. It’s been eight years in the works. But you have to give Formad credit. If anyone had given odds, in 2000, that those bozos could totally dismantle a once powerful country and reduce it to Banana Republic status in but eight short years, they wouldn’t have gotten any takers.

Kat,

Mahaps you are the exception that proves the rule?

But no matter. I am sincerely sorry that your party failed you and truly hope that Mr. Obama fulfills your expectations.

Sooth: Puppets? Are you serious?

One only wonders if you consider House republicans puppets. Didn’t they just vote en masse against a democratic bill? At the behest of Rush?

I think you might have to go a long way back to find a bill democrats vote en masse against just because it’s a republican bill.

Obama’s VERY FIRST BILL WAS VOTED, IN MASS, AGAINST. If that’s not being a ‘puppet’, I don’t know what is.

Dennis, we WERE warned of what would happen if Bush got elected.

I remember, vividly, being warned about his penchant for bankrupting oil companies. I remember, vividly, being told that he would do everything in his power to invade Iraq.

And, what happened? We invaded Iraq and America went, virtually, bankrupt.

But, those warnings didn’t come from Fat Limbaugh, or any other ‘commentator’, or talking head. They came from Chomsky.

One problem America faces while supporting and defending the 1st ammendment, is allowing blowhards to clog up the airwaves, therefore, dumbing down the masses. Is it any wonder that 70% of our citizens can’t even name the three branches of congress?

Hypocrisy, cowardice and unAmerican freedom hating are the GOP’s SOP these days. W should be hung by his thumps and tortured until he admitts to ALL of his and dirty dicks crimes.

Rush IS the GOP. Lies, hate and freedom hating are the standard for today’s GOP.

Thank you, but your spin skills, if you can call them “skills”, are light years ahead of mine. Not something I understand but must be natural to you as you showed by spinning a post that says read this article into what you made it.

Read the article.

The Bush administration’s worldview is one (that was) grounded in religious fundamentalism—that is, it emphasized absolutes, authority, and tradition, and a divine hand in history and upon the United States. Such a worldview was (and is!) disastrous for a democratic system. The GOP will never get my vote back until they TRULY become fiscally responsible—and until they ditch the evangelical domionists. I believe in God. I also believe in the separation of church & state.

Rolling Stone amazes me. The fact that the democratic party, more specifically Obama, has had to publicly come out and tell the American people to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh is ridiculous. We have a crisis on our hands and Obama is only worried about his constituents not hearing the truth. Is it so bad that Limbaugh wants a radical who has not held any of his campaign promises to fail? No. If you will recall, almost every democrat in the country wanted Bush to fail miserably at everything he intended to do.

Silly Sooth,

You don’t actually READ Tim’s stuff do you? You see anyone hereabouts defending his positions? I mean among the ‘regulars?’

I wait until someone says something profoundly, shall we say, “off the mark,” and proceed hence. Of course, there ARE times when I will introduce a matter ’cause Tim won’t.

Rotund Rush is to humor as pornography is to art.

Coach, sorry, never followed Chomsky much. I was working when Georgie Porgie was elected, but we didn’t need anyone to tell us what would happen. If was announced, “Elect me and I’ll do this and this an this.” Except for the part of compassion. Oh, and bi-partisanship.

Jed Clampett

Sorry for taking so long Gimpy, wanted to learn some more and make sure I was prepared for your spin machine after I replied to your challenge, However malicious it may be.
Please forgive me for going long on this one folks, but the matter is of dire importance and can’t be condensed to the typical slogans and key words the right likes to use.

The arguments the talking heads make for allowing the ‘incendiary and ugly’ speech being projected from Fox and other outlets controlled by Murdock are troubling indeed. They are an incitement to violence and that is the next step on the takeover of the country, if not the planet.

When the Republican leader used the word incendiary it reminded me of the analogy of yelling fire in a theater that I visited sometime back. It is synonymous with inflammatory.
inflammatory: tending to arouse anger, hostility, passion, etc.: inflammatory speeches.
The actions of some in the population towards Latinos, Arabs and other minorities of late are directly correlated to this form of ugly speaking in the ‘news’ media.
While our founding fathers understood the value and virtues of respectfulness in addressing others and restraint in verbalization, it seems that the boob tube has been quite successful in ‘turning peoples brains to a soft gelatinous mush’, as the HULU commercials so clearly state.
The Right wing, this time, argues that this sort of incendiary speech is protected under the documents that I’m told I don’t understand, by those who apparently have never read them. Somehow they read in the Declaration of Independence an imaginary distinction between Americans and Humans of all races, religions, classes, etc. This is patently false as it is clear that the founders intent was to actually obliterate those distinctions with the phrase… “we hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”. Somehow the ‘distorters of truth’ have found a distinction between men and women in these words and as such denied women their rights for a period longer than the Union’s existence to date. Also denied their rights have been people of all colors, be it black, red, yellow or brown who have been denied rights by misrepresentation. This is totally contrary to the preceding paragraph which states. “…becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands… and to assume the powers of the Earth, the SEPARATE AND EQUAL station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature’s God(whatever name one chooses to give it) entitle them, a DECENT RESPECT to the opinions of mankind…” Somehow, over the years, politicians on all sides of the political spectrum have chosen to give these clear words different meaning from their clear intent to support the rights expressed in the Bill of Rights. These days, those rights are also expressed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

DoI can be read here…
http://www.ushistory.org/decl aration/document/index.htm

Th eir contention that Rush, O’really and others of their ilk are protected under the First Amendment flies in the face of logic given the hypocrisy of their actions(the neo cons). The first Amendment states…
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
The first part deals with religion and the prohibition of promotion or imposition of religion on those who choose to believe differently or not at all. The office of Faith Based Initiatives was a clear violation of this clause designed to test the people’s willingness to allow the transgression of this law and to use religious affinity in the population as a springboard into the White House. John Dilulio was the first director of this office; when faced with the utter contempt these leaders had for religion and the religious, he was compelled to resign and write an expose on their designs. Clearly their adoption of religiosity was merely a means to an end, the highest seat, the bully pulpit.

The second affirmation is the freedom of speech or press clause. Which is subject to the limitations of the declaration to ‘DECENT RESPECT’ in personal speech and an implied actual, truthful, accounting in the press. I’m typically accused of using Hyperbole, listening to Rush and Oreally, I can see how they could be confused as to what is Hyperbole and what is not, since those culture warriors are so steeped in hyperbole, inflammatory language, and disrespectful characterizations, that it really clouds the distinction for most; particularly children who have known nothing different. That is the intent. Seems the Formad (thanks DD) had no fear in restricting the freedom of the press by declaring media and individuals unpatriotic for questioning their intent in invading Iraq. Even those in positions of power like Richard Clarke and Joseph Wilson were ridiculed and lambasted for expressing their knowledge on media outlets. Valerie Plame Wilson, a CIA covert operative, was illegally and treasonuously outed in order to silence and defame their information, their voice. Even Anthrax laced letters where sent to two Democrat leaders and some incompliant media outlets to ensure they fell into line, lest they suffer a worse fate. Freedom of speech or press was not an obstruction to their designs, they simply quashed it.

The last freedom asserted to the people in the first amendment is the freedom to peaceably assemble and petition the government for a redress of grievances. In other words the freedom to gather where they choose and demonstrate their displeasure with the government’s actions. During the ‘04 elections the clearest violations of this right were perpetrated as people where denied their freedom of assembly by penning them up like cattle in fenced in, restricted ‘protest zones’, far from cameras and the eyes of then president Bush; he that had sworn to protect these rights and the intent of the constitution. Those demonstrations were the clear request of petition the government for a redress of grievances for a populace that doesn’t have the economic power that corporations have to hire lobbyists and pay for other political compensation that today seems reserved only for the wealthy, be they people or corporate entities.
You might find this interesting as proof that freedom of assembly means nothing these days…

http://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=q0BYDp3HgRE&feature=channel _page

As you can see, the freedoms you speak of in defense of those who insult and deprecate others from the bully pulpit of the media are merely diversions in a culture war that attempts to distract from the real goals of the respective party. They are really nonexistent and worthless as rights if they can be done away with whenever it becomes politically expedient or inconvenient to their aims. In this case Republicans, who have repeatedly riled against government and legality of late and so clearly stated in their speeches at the CPAC.

So back to the Republican mouthpiece and their cohorts. The intent is not to inform as the press should do, but to dis-inform, to introduce confusion and disrespect in such a way as to once again repress the right to free speech at a future time of their choosing; due to the inflammatory nature of their discourse. You can see the effect it is having on these boards merely by reading the way the supporters of the right wing express themselves, the terms they use, they projection they exhibit. They are clearly pouring gasoline on the fire within their own house?
What is their intent? They say it is to safeguard the public and their freedoms, I venture this is a lie as so many of their statements have proven to be, including their reasoning behind the economic collapse; their attempts to deflect responsibility and absolve their policies of the last eight years from any imputation. Their aim is TOTALITARIANISM, this is evident even in the way they treat their own members when they ’step out of line’, and evinced by Mr. Steele’s Groveling apology to Limbaugh the Hut and the profuse apology of a man who was shot in the face by the Formad VP.
This might impress upon you what I mean…

http://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=vQq6ho564Ew&NR=1

http://www.youtu be.com/watch?v=7TeZjvlwVjk&fea ture=related

I’ve been ridiculed for comparing Rush to Goebbels, by those who follow a party who through the media has compared Jesus to Hitler recently. This truly is laughable, but it has some merit, Rush is more akin to Ruggiu, in that he merely parrots what he’s told to by his masters and is truly a money loving tool and manipulator of the masses. A Hut as my friend Jon Stewart has so aptly labeled him. The real kin to Goebbels is Murdock, who seems to be monopolizing information and it’s delivery in order to manipulate the masses into the needed automatons to create the chaos which will lead to their own brand of order. Out of the labor for many, riches for one group.

This one may be too much and too busy for some of you, watch at your own risk…

http://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=TYD-HYkf12U&NR=1

Power, in the hands of Shiva and Parvati, it can destroy near or distant worlds and create new ones from the ashes.

Sooth. It was never my intention to read your ‘article’. It was only my intention to refute your branding of the democrats as ‘puppet masters’. By definition, wouldn’t that mean Limbaugh? Isn’t he the one who orchestrated the en masse ‘nay’ vote in the House, rendering the republicans as ‘puppets’?

Didn’t read the article, so how can I be accused of ’spin’??

Benidict Limbaugh!
There is no tree high enough!

Jed, which members of the Nazi party are you going to going to compare Ted Turner and George Soros to? After all, they’re rich white guys that use their power and wealth to manipulate the media in order to better serve their own agenda.
And I’ll grant to you that Fox is clearly skewed to the right, but “incitement to violence?” Really? Could you provide some examples of these calls to violence?

Jed- That was a nice, long and winding rant in which you sidestepped the question yet again…more obfuscation and oblique terminology is not akin to an answer. That was a nice little run through of the preamble and the first couple of amendments though.

I will repeat, again, if you still dont get it. Whether you agree with Rush is irrelevant. You can compare him to Goebbels, Ruggiu, or whomever else. You have the freedom of speech to make those claims, to believe what you want. Guess what? So does Rush. I dont agree with the man at all, but I’m also smart enougth to realize that the man is entitled to his opinions, and has a right to voice them. If people are too dumb to distinguish fact from his grandstanding, so be it; its the listners duty to question everything and not take it as absolute truth.

Simply disagreeing with the man is no cause to deny him his 1st Amendment rights. Remember, either all speech is sacred, or none of it is. This is one of the few amendments in which on should be an absolutist, to a degree (free speech does have some limits)…left, right, marxist, atheist, whomever; all have the right to say what they want…however, people also have the right not to listen…

Just answer this Jed; who are you, or anyone, to tell someone else that their opinion is any less valid, and that they should be shut up? You come across as the same people you rile against, those who called others unpatriotic, a bit totalitarian, eh?

…and note, they didnt shut up the opposition, those people were allowed to voice their opinion, no one kept them off the air…you have a right to have yourself heard, not agreed with at all times…and in any case, their argument won out in the end.

Freedom of Speech, because all speech, even that which you find vile and obnoxious, is sacred. Even Jed’s; so please, extend the same courtesy.

Jed Clampett

Calling for a failure of government during a time of war has always been THE definition of treason. Since it was the Republican party that chose to make a criminal act into a war on Muslims; or Terra; or whatever, then they should be held to account accordingly.
You may wish to pin the failure of the Republican party on anyone other than it’s leadership, but it’s evident that anyone with half a brain that used to call themselves Republican and lived through the mess of the last decade initiated by Newt Gingrich has become so disillusioned by the party that they voted en masse to defeat the leadership of their own party. This wasn’t lost on the makers of those voting machines that are so well known for being vulnerable to rigging and hacking, a pretty damning statement considering most of them also make the most secure systems known, ATMs.
Sorry, I didn’t bother to read your entire post Gimpy, I pretty much know what it will say and it’s not worth bothering with. If you bothered to follow my links you might understand, but as Al Gore said in his presentation… (paraphrasing)If a person’s economic future is dependent on not understanding an issue, then it is highly unlikely he will even make an attempt to understand it.

Truth, some avoid it like the plague, as it is anathema to their aims.

Jed Clampett

BTW…

Rant- to speak or declaim extravagantly or violently; talk in a wild or vehement way; rave: The demagogue ranted for hours.

What Limbaugh did when describing Michael J. Fox’s commercial and ridiculing his illness is a rant. What you and other right wing extremists repeatedly do on these boards is rant. I merely made a statement of fact in as controlled a manner as possible and left a couple of nuggets in for you, against my adviser’s wishes, so you would have something to Rant against. Never fail to be predictable, do you?

Truth, to some it’s so unfamiliar they don’t even recognize it when it escapes their own lips.

Jed– I was ranting? I offered a clear and decise explanation of how the 1st Amendment applies to all, how it should apply to all, and how it must apply to all. You have yet to voice why you’re so against Limbaugh having a say? How is Limbaugh wanting the government to fail any different than the chorus of libs who chanted the same thing during the Bush years? Or the Cons before them during Clinton? For one who rails on and on against how fascist right wingers are and against totalitarianism, you seem to have a pretty closeminded totalitarian view on what constitutes free speech.

When cornered on a question, you obfuscate. When asked further, you resort to name calling and pompous arrogance, calling others corrupted and possessed, and that they cant understand the “truths” you fling down off the mount…which is the difference between your posts and Dennis, Coach, or Obi…going post for post with them if often more like a dialogue, with you its like a one sided lecture, where you’ve already decided the outcome before one is even finished.

So I’ll ask yet again, and please, dont deflect the question into more inherent means, or attack me as a right winger (wanted freedom of speech for all, even if i disagree with them wholeheartedly makes me a rightwinger? huh?): Who are you to be the judge/arbiter of what one can or cannot say? Who are you to say one form of speech is more or less valid than one you prefer? Is it because you disagree with Rush? His imitation of Fox may have been in bad taste, but so what? Being in bad taste doesnt mean he doesnt have a right to say it. Calling for the govt to fail is in incredible bad taste…but he is not actively telling people to overthrow the government, or stirring up physical harm. His speech is protected. So…will you please, for once, at least offer a coherent argument, not based on your own opinion, which for intents and purposes is meaningless in such a debate, and give a concrete example of why Rush, or anyone whom you disagree with or says things that YOU may find offensive, should be censored.

btw, I couldnt view your youtube links…I didnt skip over them

but I await a coherent answer with baited breath…lets see what you have Jed

Jed Clampett

Wow, should I even…. ? Ok, let’s try, even though I think it’s a waste of time.

It has nothing to do with MY ‘opinion’, as you like to characterize, if it was merely MY ‘opinion’ I would not waste my ‘breath’ and merely implement my ‘exit strategy’ and watch the fireworks show from far away in the comfort of my Magic Mountains
It is not about HIS ‘opinion’ because he seems to be exhorting someone else’s opinion, it has to do with his delivery. And even though you pop up occasionally to try and discredit some particular view you dislike, I know you have been following what I write enough to realize you are simply mischaracterizing me, because you don’t seem to understand what I’m trying to enlighten people about.

The links where included to show that it is not just MY ‘opinion’, it is a realization many are coming to, which they should have done a long time ago, but seem to have a mental block against.

I was concerned that perhaps the links only worked on this particular PC, so I cut and pasted them into a wordpad document, took out the blank spaces and saved them. Then tested them on other user accounts on this computer, put them on a flash drive and tested them on two others and guess what? They worked. So apparently there is a problem with the interface between your chair and keyboard. Look into that.

In the meantime, here’s a couple more that prove that It’s not MY ‘opinion’, but a collective realization by a large portion of the population which seems to be leaving you behind and your bankrupt ideology behind.

An adapted excerpt from Boston legal…
http://www.youtube.com/watch ?v=DOlN7VALlh4&NR=1

The late great George Carlin…
http://www.youtube.com/watc h?v=2UVXj8F9Fmk&feature=relate d

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWi Bt-pqp0E&feature=related

If you and your ‘compatriots’ were so intent on defending EVERYONE’S freedom of speech and ‘would fight to the death to defend it’, and presumably the very FIRST STATEMENT OF RIGHTS in it’s totality; where were you 4 years ago? 7? hey, even last year when our economy was being taken to the cleaners?

I’m not evading your questions, you simply can’t see the relevance because it doesn’t fit in to your expectations.
As to the others, I’m sure If they were to stand in unison and refute what I say, withdraw their support because I don’t say it in a humorous way, or BS way; I say let them stand and deliver, and I will gladly move on and allow you your entertainment.

Good day sir.

Merk/Jed,

It’s a fairly well accepted axiom that if one inserts oneself into the argument of others with the intention of mollifying the argument, one can expect to be soundly beaten about the head and shoulders by ALL the argument participants.

First, the argument itself: As in most arguments, the initial issue is often left behind. If I recall, the contention herein is Rush Limbaugh’s ‘right’ to say what he pleases as long as the FCC isn’t offended. Merk, it would seem, is calling for a strict interpretation of the 1st Amendment and Jed is asserting that there are exceptions and those exceptions are threatening this country.

In truth, I can’t disagree with either of you. A strict interpretation IS necessary to ensure that rights are not impinged. But, we all know of Jed’s favorite response, yelling fire in a theater; clearly there ARE limits. The question is, does Rush Limbaugh’s behavior extend beyond those limits. And my position is no because yelling fire in a theater has no impact upon the millions and millions of people who are not IN the theater. Rush the Hut is NOT yelling in a theater, he’s talking to his friends.

The people who listen to Limbaugh already share his opinions; he’s merely preaching to the choir. I don’t know the demographics of Limbaugh’s show but I doubt there are many rednecks listening. Most are, I suspect, middle-Americans, hard-working, conscientious people who share conservative values. If the country is 1/3 conservative, 1/3 liberal and 1/3 moderate, give or take, then presumably there’s more people out there who enjoy Mr. Limbaugh than who voted for McCain last election.

Mr. Limbaugh doubtlessly thinks HE has great sway in the country, but the recent election would seem to prove otherwise. And I believe Obama’s camp recognizes that and is attempting to fan the flames of Limbaughism believing that the rotund one would huff and puff and explode, in the process, drawing attention away from the real issues.

Having said that, I support Jed in his watchdog approach to matters. If NO one cares and speaks out, it is only natural for the ‘authorities’ to stretch the boundaries of the envelope. It’s what they do. I may not always agree with Jed, but I want him, or someone like him, out there tilting at windmills. And truth be known, if HE didn’t pick up some of these banners, I expect others, myself included, might insert themselves into the fray.

Now, there’s also a more dicier issue at play and that is the ‘voice’ used in the argument. I would have to believe that among the regulars, all have had an occasion to go a little too far and/or step over the line. Lord knows that among the ‘irregulars,’ it’s FAR more common. I chalk it up to youthful exuberance, hormones run amok.

But we all have views and all are passionate about those views else we wouldn’t be participating in this forum. Some, like Jed, are more passionate than others. Do I read all of his posts? Nope. Do I agree with him all the time? Nope. But to return to Merk’s strict interpretation of the 1st Amendment, doesn’t Jed have the right to say what he wants, no matter if you agree? If I find he’s going off on the deep end, I move on to something else.

Jed has a LOT to offer and I’ve learned much from him. I believe he tends to get too personal in his posts, but that’s the nature of this medium. We’re all prancing our egos across this stage. It’s personal and, in the words of Ole, visceral. We all seem to like that, else we’d be elsewhere.

Merk, you are one of the brighter lights posting herein. You and MidMan provide a third alternative to issues and are valuable contributors. But you ARE swimming upstream on this blog. As such, sometimes the current will get pretty stiff. I hope your resolve and stamina is up for it.

Jed, like the people you admire and cite, Tesla, et al, you are, in many ways, far ahead of most of us. We need someone ‘out there’ blazing the trail. But not all of us feel the necessity of being a pathfinder. For some of us there are problems enough we can get our hands and minds around to keep us plenty busy. We don’t need any more. But we DO need you fighting the ‘good fight.’ Because you’re pushing the envelope, however, you’re going to get a LOT of flak.

You can’t take it personal. If you’re going to get up on stage in your imaginary theater and then begin lecturing the sheeples about how little they understand, you had better be ready for a few discordant notes. It goes with the territory. You do NOT need to engage in hand-to-hand comment with each and every dissenter. Your message should transcend that. Speak your truths and let them be absorbed where they may. Where they may NOT, you will find, I’m sure, they can’t be forced. Save your energy for the masses.

This is like tee-ball for Dems. The current face of the GOP is a media personality! Not a governor, not a Mayor, not Senator – nothing but a radio talk-show host! Rush has absolutely no political or public service experience whatsoever but yet conservatives hang on his every work like it’s gospel. If this isn’t proof that the GOP is in bad shape then I don’t know what is.

Republicans should just sit back and shut the he** up. You have no room to criticize anything the new administration is doing. The GOP was in the White House for 8-years and had control of Congress for six of those eight years and we all saw what a great job they did while in power didn’t we? Oh wait a minute, it wasn’t their fault it was Clinton’s fault – sorry I forgot. I’m sure electing a complete moron like Bush (twice)had nothing to do with it. Anyway, now that the GOP has basically been “fired” by the American people all they can do is BMW (b*itch, moan, and whine) about what a terrible job Obama is doing. Here’s a news flash – most Americans don’t give a crap about the the GOP thinks because they’ve lost all credibility. Bush, Chenney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Rove, Rush, etc…. all selfish, closed-minded hypocrits and liars.

REPUBLICANS ARE NO LONGER IN CHARGE BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T GET THE JOB DONE WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE.

So republicans let me ask you this….SHUT UP!

In response to ENUFF: FIrst, I don’t think Obama would appreciate your partisan tone, not that I care. Second, the Bush administration acted like democrats for the majority of the past 8 years. I’d like to remind you that the democrats, including Obama and Biden and Clinton, voted for the war. Also, Dodd and Franken are most responsible for the mortgage crisis because they let people who could never pay their loans back receive a loan. Why? Because these companies were funding their reelection. When will liberals understand that all democrats want to do is subsidize their constituents thus subsidize their reelection? This spending bill does nothing except keep people with their hands out. This doesn’t just apply to the poor. Look at the big CEO’s. Government gave them money, and now they want more. Government needs to get out of people’s business and maybe subsidize personal responsibility. Oh yeah, ENUFF, you may want to look at Obama’s voting record and see what he did the past few years in the senate…not much. I’m amazed at America’s stupidity. Hey ENUFF, if you were in debt, how would you get out of debt, would you spend billions of dollars? Would you hold a fiscal responsibility summit? Or would you tax yourself? Let me know how it works out for you

Gorlock is laughing his ass off. Divide and conquer is the rule. Seems that clearly the division has been accomplished.

Hey Dirty Dennis,

Nice try….you need to take a few steps back to when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were going in the tank…who brought it to these Democratic fools in Congress’ attention, and what their response was. Didn’t want to hear it because their grubby little hands were in these two institutions pockets. Lots’ of blame to go around here. Schools out on you libs who try to blame everything on Bush…that one was put to rest a long time ago…you must have been cuttinng class when this was covered. Good lesson here to the youngsters…GO TO CLASS!!!! When you get the answers and caught up on the course work, come on back and we’ll see about getting you a passing grade. Gotta’ go…Pelosi is here for me to apply her daily mask!!!!! It’s my part time job!!!:)

Jed Clampett

During the Bush administration the rules on Fannie and Freddie were relaxed so that the leadership could transfer the Toxic Assets from their friends in wall street to institutions that had become single points of failure. Believing the lies of a bunch of liars does not make you informed, merely easy to deceive.

Wow, all we’ve been talking about is Rush Limbaugh and the 1st Amendment.

Why don’t we just wait until TD posts an economics thread before we go ‘there,’ but I CAN tell you we’ll be talking a LOT about eight years of a conservative executive who BRAGGED that he was the ‘decision maker,’ about the conservative congress that rubber-stamped each and every dastardly deed Formad fomented, confident the conservative court would cover their ass.

The republican congress had enough votes to do what they wanted no matter WHAT the dems said. Hail, the dems weren’t even allowed in conference; all they could do was vote, for all the good it did ‘em.

The Cons have been screwing this country for twenty of the last thirty years. Well, prof, turn around and bend over, it’s payback time.

Excellent post Dennis! The hat of Elder Statesman fits your head quite well.
There will always be exceptions to the rights afforded to us under the Bill of Rights as Jed stated with yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater. My journalism teacher in high school used to tell us that no freedom is absolute and as soon as your freedom hinders upon the freedom of another person, yours must defer. That always seemed to make sense to me at least.
It’s highly unpatriotic, ignorant and arrogant for Rush to wish failure upon Obama’s administration. It was the same for those wishing failure upon Bush’s administration, and Clinton’s administration and the hippies that wished failure upon the United States back in the 60s. It is NOT unpatriotic to oppose the direction that politicians lead our country, in fact quite the opposite. That being said, those people have the right to voice their opinion, as long as that opinion is not the promotion of violence against others, as was the intent of Ruggiu and Goebbels. I feel blessed and am immensely thankful to live in a country where a hyperbolic jerkoff like Rush can make inflammatory statements, and someone like Jed can call them out on it with neither one of them being butchered or imprisoned for exercising that right. It ain’t perfect, but this is a great country.

Alan – “I’d like to remind you that the democrats, including Obama and Biden and Clinton, voted for the war…”

Yep and that’s because we all were LIED TO BY THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION CLAIMING THAT IRAQ HAD WMD’S THEREFORE WE HAD TO INVADE AND START A WAR.

I guess you conveniently forgot about that huh?

I was well aware of Obama’s history in the Senate and was perfectly okay with it. I decided to choose intelligence and character over experience this time around – particularly after YOU and other dumba** Republicans elected the least intellectual President (Bush) in our history. These days more experience in Washington usually equals more greed and corruption…ala McCain. Please don’t tell me that McCain was any more equipped to be President – please! McCain proved what a quack he was as soon as he chose that idiot Palin as his VP and the American people saw right through his BS. Can you say “all credibility thrown out the window”?

Hey Alan, if I were in debt I would make sure I try and pay down my debt with earnings from my JOB. There’s the problem – we’re losing over 650,000 jobs per month so what are we supposed to do? Just sit around and wait for the economy to self-correct itself or simply pray for a miracle? The stimulus package was created to help create more jobs and also help rescue the housing industry. It’s far from perfect but it’s a start.

Midman,

Tnx, freedom is one of the most maligned, abused and misunderstood of the many elements that comprise a society. It’s scary ’cause it’s uncontrollable and has a life of its own.

Is my neighbor free to ‘tune’ his Harley at 7 in the morning? Debatable? Can I yell at the FORMER Prez and call him a stupid corksucker? Not likely. You don’t quote your instructor but I’ll bet he/she said there are a LOT of gray areas, some dark areas and few clear areas when it comes to setting the bar on freedom. It’s one of the biggest challenges before a ‘free’ society. Better to err on the side of lax freedom than to suppress another’s.

If ‘I’ were Prez, I’d outlaw rap music and Limbaugh. Make everyone listen to Mozart and Rosenstadt.

You all need to get laid.

Midman. I’m a little perplexed as to this whole ‘want him to fail’ theory. It’s my contention that a majority of the people didn’t want Bush to ‘fail’, per say. Liberals, more or less, wanted him to realize what he had done and GET OUT! That’s not failure.

However, during the Clinton Administration, there was an extreme ‘hope he fails’, or ‘we’ll make him fail’ mentality, again, from the right.

Prime example: The house repubes voted, en masse, against Obama’s first bill as president. However, there were quite a few dems that votes WITH Bush. How many repubes vote WITH a Democratic president? About 2%?

Democrats find compromise. Republicans shove their ideology down your neck. At least, that’s the feeling I get, especially when I see congressional voting records.

Coach,

That’s a tough call. I can’t remember ‘exactly’ how I felt but I can tell you that I EXPECTED him to fail and I suppose that there’s some natural, included desire for same.

I can’t tell you how CRUSHED I’d have been if he’d been right on anything. That would fly in the face of everything we knew of the man.

Further, if he HAD succeeded, can’t we assume that he’d take that as validation of his efforts and continue in the same vein? If Iraq and Afghanistan had folded, don’t you think there’s a good chance we’d be in Iran right now?

I’m not so sure I wanted him to fail, but I’m pretty sure I didn’t want him to succeed. The consequences would be … McCain?

Jed Clampett

Yes DD, quite the diplomat. BTW, wasn’t that you telling me and Obie to shut up because we were having a Tesla conversation on a thread that had long been abandoned, but was way over your head? Wasn’t that an attempt at restraining our freedom to talk about a subject we enjoyed and no one else seemed to be interested in? Even though we were finished with it.

The point I was trying to make is that when you defend rights of ‘free speech’ for yourself and allow it to be taken from others… say, the people of Cuba, or the people of Chile, or the people of Vietnam, or the people of Iraq, and soon the people of Iran, then it tells the powers that be that you don’t mind those rights being taken from you, or are too unaware of what rights are to recognize when they have been taken from you or others.

Some say they will defend the rights of the people to say what they want, however they want to say it; but immediately start making distinctions beneficial to their side; and when the bullets start flying, will they be able to recognize which is the side of righteousness?
Freedom of the press? Remember that lady reporter that refused to tell who had told her about Plame and wound up sitting in Jail for a long time, for nothing?
You live in an illusion of freedom and the illusion is being taken from you little by little like a frog being cooked in a pot.
When people like Rush are allowed a huge megaphone, whether it’s for making money or ‘entertaining’, and people get killed or hurt because of it, like the link to the story of the guys from Chile that where here in a student exchange program and got killed by a nut with a gun; ready for revolution, enticed by right wing incendiary radio; or the people reported on NPR being attacked during the campaign because of incendiary speech used against immigrants, then yes, you are endangering your republic.

Had you guys followed the links to the StopAndLook series and tried to inform yourselves, perhaps you would understand the difference or the dangers involved and the contrasts between a republic and a democracy. My teacher says you can lead a horse to water, but if it thinks the leader brings you to a poisoned well, hell let himself die dehydrated in the desert.

For me, this has nothing to do with ego, I’d be laughing my ass off to see the country that gave my Republic to a totalitarian tyrant fall into the hands of worse ones if it was about ego. Actually it’s quite the opposite, it’s about controlling it in the tradition of the Tibetans that I admire while still debating with a bunch of uneducated, uncontrolled, uninspired products of a flawed educational system. As you can tell, I am still learning, but then again, I’m a fast learner. But I won’t be crucified to allow fools their ‘entertainment’ without a good fight.
For me and my teacher, it’s about trying to make people realize what is about to happen to this country so that it’s people may work together to stop it, so what was done to my country of birth doesn’t happen here. However, it seems apparent that people here are too far gone to recognize what I’m trying to say and too uninspired to understand my references.
Well, I guess from the silence and the change of topic, it’s not that important. I guess I should resign myself to the fact that the US will get what it deserves, it’s sad so many have to suffer for the sins of a few, but then again, that is how justice in this country seems to work.

“So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell,
blue skies from pain.
Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?

And did they get you to trade your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?

How I wish, how I wish you were here.
We’re just two lost souls swimming in a fish bowl, year after year,
Running over the same old ground.
What have you found? The same old fears.
Wish you were here.”
Pink Floyd

Who do you think they were asking about? Whose lost souls in the FISH bowl?
never mind, too deep for you guys.
Fare well. Enjoy the entertainment.

Jed,

Tnx for the compliment, but you’re too kind. Of course, it WAS faint praise inasmuch as you proceeded to contradict what I was saying, but I don’t get THAT much praise, so I’ll bask in your warmth for a few moments. ……

There, nice.

I think the ‘treatment’ of reporters who refuse to divulge is a dicey one. I defend their right, but the constitution only protects their right to speak, NOT to withhold evidence in a criminal investigation. I trust the ACLU can do a FAR better job than I in protecting the rights of the Press.

Given that we’re peopled with, as you say, “a bunch of uneducated, uncontrolled, uninspired products of a flawed educational system,” we should expect that Limbaughian acts of anger and/or hatred should be happening all over the country on a daily basis. However, that doesn’t seem to be the case. In a nation of 300 Mil, you’re going to have crime taking place on a daily basis irrespective of people’s listening habits. Focusing on isolated cases in an attempt to ‘prove’ your point is counter productive.

As for the ‘rights’ of Cubans, et al, you’re on a very slippery slope. For one thing, it is a sovereign nation and it’s up to them to decide what they want, as MidMan pointed out. I believe we tried to do ‘right’ in Iraq. How’s that working out, by the way?

Peopled by an imperfect creature, man, America is an imperfect work in progress. The freedom of speech issues have been raging for over 100 years and we’ve been jailing journalists during that time. The Republic doesn’t seem about to collapse, at least not from THAT.

As for other countries, if WE begin telling them how to live, what’s to stop Russia from telling Chechnians how to live or China telling Tibetans? It has to come from a world body and it has to come with world support. We have amply demonstrated that we are clearly NOT the ones to be the world’s policeman.

DD of course why would a man want to tell anyone else how to live, you aren’t being threatened!

A 16-year-old Mauritanian girl on Friday told a Cádiz court that her parents forced her into marriage with a cousin 30 years her senior three years ago, under death threats from her own father. “My father said that I would be stoned and that he would hurl the first stone himself,” said Selamha Mint Mohamed. Her father holds that marrying girls off to much older relations is a common and accepted practice in Mauritania, the wedding was held in the West African nation following the Muslim laws of the Sharia

Judith,

Were it within my power, I would undo such wrongs, irrespective of gender, the ‘big’ always hit down.

DD All I see on here is about how poorly Muslims have been treated by the US and its our fault they attack us and we have no business being over there or telling them anything about how to treat people. Anything about protecting women? NO, nothing. There is a word for that and it normally isn’t a compliment.

Judith,

There are also a LOT of words which cover your perspective, but we’re above all that, aren’t we?

You don’t say that the posts discussing Muslim countries are wrong, simply they are ignoring one VERY negative aspect of Islam. All true. So you condemn us; for what? Failure to talk about the sorry plight of women in Islam? But where have YOU been all this time? Rather than condemning inaction, you should be stimulating it. ESPECIALLY on International Women’s Day of all days.

It is, I believe, better to light a light than to curse the darkness.

(This from a person who rails against Cons day in and day out? Yeah, so what? That’s ‘different.’)

In my earlier post I hinted that the problem is not gender specific. Power corrupts and I don’t care who’s in charge, women or men, there’s going to be abuse. Whoever’s on top gets a little rough with those below. It’s HUMAN nature, amongst the weak, NOT ‘man nature.’

So, what would you have us do? Invade Islam? We’ve already tried that and I think the results are in. I assure you, should such an undertaking be attempted, the world will sink into anarchy and chaos. And what would you have then, MORE abuse.

Am I suggesting we ignore the problem? Hardly. But the track record for child and spousal abuse in this country is hardly admirable. Perhaps we should clean up our own house before we attempt to clean up others. That said, I think you’re going to find Hillary championing the cause of women’s rights throughout the world. Those efforts will NEVER be as effective as any sane, feeling person (Cons need not apply) would hope for, but they’re the best we can expect.

As CJ said in West Wing, “They beat their women,” in Qumar. I suggest you pick up her mantle and hold young TD’s feet close to the fire. Make him PROVE his liberal credentials. Complaining is okay, we all do it; championing is heroic.

Hey Judith, if you sit back with some perspective, you’ll realize that we, the US, acted in, virtually, the same way not too long ago. If it wasn’t for the liberal movement, you wouldn’t even have the right to get a job, educate yourself, or even vote, let alone choose who you marry.

Perspective goes a long way, and who the hell do we think we are to go around telling everybody else how to live? Or, better yet, telling them that they’re living the WRONG WAY.

And, another thing. You DO realize that you’re thinking is the same as theirs (the islamic radicals you talk about), right? You want to do away with them, they want to do away with you. Is there EVER a winner in one of those fights? Hell, the confederates still dominate the south………

Jed, Pink Floyd (Roger Waters, in particular) was referring to its founding member Syd Barrett who had left the band due to mental illness in the “Wish You Were Here” quote you posted. In fact, that entire album was virtually a tribute to their former frontman. So it isn’t that the quote is TOO DEEP for us, it’s just that you don’t have the correct facts, which happens to ALL of us from time to time.

Judith, you are right that there needs to be more awareness of what is happening to women in that culture. You’ll hear reports of a Muslim woman facing gang rape by the elders as punishment for speaking to a male in public who is not a family member, but those stories tend to fall on deaf ears. I wish it was as easy as going in there and stopping them from committing such abuses, but it isn’t. These atrocities are deeply rooted in the culture and religion which makes them tough to eradicate. Such abuses continue to occur in Afghanistan and we’ve been there since 2001. Hell, there are “honor killings” happening on our own soil. It’s frustrating, I know, to see these things happening and be powerless to prevent them. We have the UN who is supposed to help keep order, but unfortunately that institution has become a farcical circle jerk of good ol’ boys from around the globe sitting around making themselves feel important (and rich) and hence can’t be expected to do much of anything. I don’t know what the solution is, but I do think that raising awareness and education and applying pressure on those leaders will be at the root of it.

Dirty D

“The Cons have been screwing this country for twenty of the last thirty years. Well, prof, turn around and bend over, it’s payback time.”

Payback time?
If that`s true, then fasten your seat belt. We`re in for a bumpy four years.

Sadly, I agree that the motivation of many on the left is to get even.
Which may satisfy some perverse gratification need but it will tear the country apart.

And what does it say about the virtue of their ideas.
Rush is an idea man, if anything.
Why don`t libs take on his ideas with superior ideas of their own?
Instead they resort to fat comments and all the stereo typical adjectives they give to all cons. Racist, homophobes, greedy rich etc, etc, etc….zzzzz.

But this ‘obsession’ with Rush says a lot all by it`s self.
I haven`t checked this thread in a few days and the posts are still coming, over a hundred. Amazing!

And don`t think that those in the opposition are going to just “bend over” and take it, as you suggest.

We are Americans after all. We will only be pushed around for so long, before we push back.

PS: Just a general question for whoever would like to answer.
Has Obama been able to find any Democrat that has paid his/her taxes? So that he can fill these open cabinet positions.
Come on, there`s got to be one patriotic Dem out there.

Joe Biden`s definition of patriotism not mine.

Judith,

The larger question is why does our news media mostly ignore the brutal abuses against women in Muslim countries and cultures? Or even on our own soil in the U.S.

It`s simple. Besides their liberal reluctance to be judgmental about anything, they`re just SCARED!!! CHICKEN!! COWARDS!!

These are the same people who rush to show pics that are offensive to Christians but ran scared when it came to showing that cartoon of Mohamed that caused a ruckus when published in Holland.

As much as they ranted against the chilling affect on free speech by the Bush Administration. They trashed Bush daily without any fear of reprisal.

Even the feminist groups are silent about this subject. They`re more concerned about rich women breaking the glass ceiling so they can get even richer or going after Republicans.

Maybe we can get TD to take on this subject in his blog or Rolling Stone to take up the cause in a meaningful way. I would be the first to applaud them.

For the record, FOX News has run many stories about ‘Honor Killings’ going on in this country.

ENUFF- First, I didn’t vote for Bush. Second, I didn’t like McCain. If you think McCain is any more corrupt than Barney Frank or Chris Dodd who ran the housing market into the ground (which by the way jumpstarted this whole mess) you’re crazy. Next, Joe Biden stood on stage in the primaries and said “Barack Obama does not have the experience to be president.” Explain that to me. Also, Obama has appointed over 6 people with tax problems. The TREASURY secretary owes on back taxes. Not the change I was looking for. And the stimulus money won’t kick in until 2010 an 2012, just in time for reelections…hmmm. And it won’t create jobs. You tell me how money for STD prevention and a water park is going to create jobs. And get back to me when your taxes go out the roof because they will once the tax cuts run out. And I hate it more than anyone that people are losing their jobs. That’s why I’m in school, in more debt than the homeless man that walks the streets of my campus, so that I don’t have to worry about being fired from a factory. Just take a look at where the money is going ENUFF. It’s to Pelosi, Reid, Frank, and Dodd. It’s going to their states. Wonder why?

Nobody knows who Barack Obama is and we are getting ready to find out. Everyone complains about Bush’s spending…Obama has almost matched it in less than 100 days. Open your eyes ENUFF and realize that when Obama says he wants to help you…he doesn’t…he wants to help that person who doesn’t want to take responsiblity for his life. He wants to give so that that person will vote for him again. He doesn’t want us to make our own decisions, he wants the government to influence our lives.

So Enuff, next time you feel like attacking Republicans, just know that most of Bush’s spending came with a Democratic congress who through in their earmarks. And look at what Clinton did with Fannie and Freddie that got us into this mess. And ENUFF…please explain to me why every single program designed to help the poor has just led to more poverty. Please explain that. Why don’t we look at the results of what democrats propose and pass. All we do is look at the intention…and of course everyone wants poverty to end, of course we want better healthcare. But we can’t ignore the failed results of these programs and think we can throw more money at it to solve the problem.

The point of this post is to point out the stupidity of some Americans who think that this guy who says “hope”, and “change” like there’s no tomorrow really has nothing but words. He has already bankrupted our children’s and grandchildren’s lives. So ENUFF, I challenge you to get over George W Bush because he is gone. You have a new president who likes to spend more than what he has. Like we Americans have done recently.

Hey Coach, about the voting records. On the stimulus bill, every single Republican voted against the massive spending in the house. Guess what? 18 democrats voted against it too. How’s that for bipartisan? Not the direction Obama intended for it to go huh?

Of the reported “millions” of Rush’s regular listeners, what per cent lives below the Mason-Dixon line? Those people would vote for Alfred E. Neuman if he ran as a Republican. Wait a minute, he did in 2000 and 2004.
I rest my case.

Of the reported “millions” of Rush’s regular listeners, what per cent lives below the Mason-Dixon line? Those people would vote for Alfred E. Neuman if he ran as a Republican. Wait a minute, he did in 2000 and 2004.
I rest my case.

One fallacy that Rush, and the rest of the Right Wing Media, continues to present is that the DEMS voted in favor of the Iraq War. Total Congressional Vote:

In Favor of War:REPS 297 DEMS 110

Against War: REPS 7 DEMS 147

Not like Rush tells it!

PC

“We are Americans after all. We will only be pushed around for so long, before we push back.”

Wow, that’s great. Do you write bumper stickers for a living? Did you write, ”These colors don’t run,” with a picture of the U.S. flag. Nah, it’s pretty clear you’ve read a history book or two in your life. Or watched a movie.

But you’re right, in a way, we ‘Americans’ have been ‘pushed around’ for eight years by ‘Un-Americans’ and we just pushed back. Oh, and I need to clarify my remark when I said turn around and bend over, I was taking rhetorical license, of course. The Obamaites won’t be literally sticking it to the Cons when they renew stem cell research, close down torture centers and actually hold corporations, and federal agencies, accountable for their actions. They’re only doing what’s ‘right’ and best for the country. To the Cons, however, they will feel as though they’ve been corn-holed.

And I have to take exception of your characterization that the ‘attention’ Rush The Hut is receiving as an obsession. Now YOU might refer to efforts to fight off an attack of locusts as an obsession, but I think it’s more a matter of common sense. If a blow-hard gets up on stage and INSULTS half the audience, then it shouldn’t be surprising when a few bushels of tomatoes are projected towards him. It goes with the territory.

You attack ‘libs’ for not coming up with ideas. I’m not sure just whom ‘libs’ are. I guess the Obamaites are NOT ‘libs,’ ‘cause they’ve got a whole BUNCH of ideas. The rest of us ‘libs,’ however, aren’t in much position to enact our ideas. BUT (but?) in the couple of years I’ve been visiting this web site, I’ve seen more than a few ideas put forth, but here ARE a few:

Get out of Iraq
Get out of Afghanistan
Kick the oil habit
Stop illegal spying on U.S. citizens
Stop the flow of jobs to foreign countries
Stop subsidizing oil companies
Nationalize oil companies
Make corporate executives accountable
Stop torturing
Stop the missile defense plan
Impeach Formad

Now, I recognize these ‘ideas,’ a mere sampling thereof, are repugnant to you so you don’t see them as ‘ideas,’ merely the rants of a few radical ‘libs.’ Except, there was one other popular ‘idea’ floated for a while:

Get rid of the Cons in Congress and the White House.

How did THAT one work out?

Rush Limbaugh is to the right what Michael Moore and/or Al Sharpton was/is to the left. Each side has it’s crazies. To “portray” Limbaugh as the head of the Republican party by the White House would be LOL funny if it didn’t detract from matters in the very real world that actually need attention from people acting like grownups. I thought the Obama White House was supposed to be above such crap. It’s just hypocritical politics as usual. Change you can believe in?? Yeah, right.

Dirty D

Get out of Iraq
Get out of Afghanistan
Kick the oil habit
Stop illegal spying on U.S. citizens
Stop the flow of jobs to foreign countries
Stop subsidizing oil companies
Nationalize oil companies
Make corporate executives accountable
Stop torturing
Stop the missile defense plan
Impeach Formad

Ideas? Sounds like bumper stickers.
You know like,”No Blood For Oil” etc…appeals to the emotions without having to give serious thought to.

Let`s take one and see if you can actually come up with an argument to support it.
“Stop the missile defense plan”
Just what is the lib`s problem with it, besides being against anything that actually defends the country.
This is a system that threatens no one. It`s completely defensive. And only deploys if some country actually launches a nuclear missile at us.
It shoots it down before it can explode on our soil and wipe out a city, maybe the one you`re living in.
Kind of like putting your hands up to block a punch.
In fact it doesn`t even require an offensive act on our part, like shooting a missile back at the attacker.
You would think libs would love it. We don`t even have to punch back in retaliation.

Now in my question to you, I have laid out my argument for it.
No emotions involved.
Love to hear your response.

But nice to know I can still get a rise out of you, DD.

Progressive,

Your quote:
“One fallacy that Rush, and the rest of the Right Wing Media, continues to present is that the DEMS voted in favor of the Iraq War. Total Congressional Vote:

In Favor of War:REPS 297 DEMS 110

Against War: REPS 7 DEMS 147″

Your right, kind of?
Of those 110 Dems in favor, I`ll bet 90% were actually against it. But because the war was popular at the time, they ‘lacked the courage of their own convictions’.
Nothing new, libs, ahh I mean progressives, hiding their true beliefs from the public, in order to get re-elected.
In fact, that`s one of the reasons liberal politicians started calling themselves ‘progressives’ years ago. They knew ‘liberal’ was a dirty word to most voters.

And when Obama said he was against the war, big deal.
He was an Illinois State Senator at the time. He never had to actually vote on it.
I suspect he may have been just as calculating as the 110 Dems, had he been a US Senator looking to run for Pres.
Besides, he`s not getting us out of Iraq as promised. He`s leaving 50,000 troops there. You call that getting out?
And by the way, he has that luxury to draw down the numbers from present levels because the war has pretty much been won. And the Iraqis are able to handle the rest themselves.
McCain, had he been elected, would be doing the same.

So much for change.

Crashed: Care to prove this? “I`ll bet 90% were actually against it.” Or, are you just trying to start some legend??

Why are libs against the missle defense system in western europe? Here’s a question for you: How does this defend the United States? And, don’t give us the ‘boogeyman’ argument.

You claim liberals are “Scared, Cowards, Etc.”. Well, what are we scared of? Who are we cowering to? Funny, but if we were scared, don’t you think we’d support your missle defense system?

Let me guess, you’re just another jackass of a man, bitter that color is integrating itself into our culture, and way too quick to jump onto bumper sticker rhetoric.

Keep looking under the bed and in the closet. One of these days, you’ll find him……..

Alan – “Obama says he wants to help you…he doesn’t…he wants to help that person who doesn’t want to take responsiblity for his life. He wants to give so that that person will vote for him again. He doesn’t want us to make our own decisions, he wants the government to influence our lives.”

Is this what you believe or are you simply quoting some Republican elitist that can’t see past their own nose? It’s pretty obvious to me that you listen to Rush Limabaugh or Bill O’Reilly. Those are some great resources for you info. Way to think for yourself Alan.

Apparently most Americans knew enough about Obama to elect him President so he must be doing something right and if you were expecting “change” to happen right away then you’re not a realist.

The seed for the Housing Market crash was planted WAY before Frank & Dodd ran it into the ground as you claim. Take it from somebody who has worked with mortgages since 1999. That was a snowball effect. Again sounds like you’re listening to Rush Limbaugh.

The stimulus package is far from perfect but it’s already creating jobs – read the news. How about The Homeowner Affordibility and Stability Plan that’s addressing the foreclosure issues? This is a great idea that has already been implemented and is going to help thousands of people keep their homes as well as stabilize property values.

Of course Obama has spent more money than Bush because Bush didn’t assume the worst economy in 70+ years.

Or….we can take the Republicans advice and simply do nothing and the economy will self-correct itself. Yeah right! If we did that we would end up losing over 7 million jobs by the end of 2009. Then we would be at the point of no return in your idealistic Republican world.

Alan

If you don’t vote you can’t bitch. Sorry dude.

Progressive, I would watch the rhetoric attacking groups of people that blindly vote for one party regardless of who’s on the ballot. Upwards of 90% of all black voters have voted Democrat in recent presidential contests. You’d be hard pressed to find 90% of all voters south of the Mason-Dixon line having voted for Republicans as you suggested.

Jeez PC, you disappoint me. If I attempt to mock you, using an analogy to compare an expression to a bumper sticker, it comes across pretty lame for you to do the same back to me. At least have the decency to wait a day or two before you demonstrate your lack of originality. ‘Some’ might miss the connection then, but not when our posts are mere inches apart.

But I shouldn’t be surprised to see you stumble so badly, you who believe setting up missile sites in Eastern Europe to guard against an attack from Iran, of all people, is what Formad claimed it to be: defensive. Talk about gullible. I believe Bugs Bunny would referred to you as an ‘ultra maroon.’ I can’t do better.

For the record, it’s a targeting system, the better to target deep into Russia whatever the HAIL they want to target. If you think the military would spend millions upon millions on a weapon system that could ONLY target in-coming missiles, then I understand why you’ve chosen the party of the gullible and easily led.

Midman,

I think you should cut blacks a little slack. They’ve been screwed by both parties for 100+ years but mostly by the Right. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

As for me, I’ve watched the do-nothing Eisenhower administration, (which actually might have been a good thing, except for civil rights and McCarthy), the dark, scheming Nixon administration, the pardon administration of Ford, and the outright LYING, corrupt administrations of clowns Reagan, Bush and Junior.

You can well imagine what I think of ANY person who is NOT a rich, white, middle-class male and votes GOP for national office. If you can’t, let me know.

Legalize marijuana.

Come on Coach, help me out; you’ve got a bunch.

“IDEAS!!??!! You want to talk about IDEAS!!??!!”

Anonymous,

Let`s take your points one by one.

1)Crashed: Care to prove this? “I`ll bet 90% were actually against it.” Or, are you just trying to start some legend??

I don`t have to prove it “dip shmit”. I`s my opinion. I never said it was fact. But if there was a way to substantiate it. I would gladly put up my money against your`s in a wager and not lose a minutes sleep over the outcome.

2)Why are libs against the missle defense system in western europe? Here’s a question for you: How does this defend the United States? And, don’t give us the ‘boogeyman’ argument.

When missile defense was being developed under Reagan. (It was called SDI). Liberal Dems had a “hissy fit” over it. They claimed it could never work or we would piss off the Soviets. Reagan would start WW3.
A lot of the same lefties were for unilateral disarmament. Yeah, smart idea!
Well Reagan didn`t start WW3. In fact he brought us “Detante” with Russians and it lead to the Berlin Wall coming down.
Point is, whether it`s in East Europe or the US, it`s still a defensive weapon. It only gets used if attacked.
And yes, I know it`s directed against the Russians. But they are acting like a bunch of ‘thugs’ again.
Bottom line, libs have a well deserved rep of being weak on defense. Nothing has changed.

3)You claim liberals are “Scared, Cowards, Etc.”. Well, what are we scared of? Who are we cowering to? Funny, but if we were scared, don’t you think we’d support your missle defense system?

I was talking about the press and their reluctance to offend Radical Islam. They`re scared! Chicken! buck, buck, buck! That`s the who they are cowering to.
But your`re right. I guess we could put missile defense around the NY Times. WHAT???

4) Let me guess, you’re just another jackass of a man, bitter that color is integrating itself into our culture, and way too quick to jump onto bumper sticker rhetoric.

Spare me the psycho babble. You don`t know anything about me to be able to analyze me. It`s laughable.
But thanks for proven my point about libs always using the same cliques about cons. Especially the racist one.

Who has the bumper sticker mentality??

Anymore questions?

Well Dirty D,

You taken me aback! My aim is to stimulate, irritate but never disappoint.
But I`ve seen so many of these bumper stickers on rusted out Volvos over the years. You can understand how I might conclude that libs actually believe in these sound bites.
But for missing the analogy, you have my regrets.
I certainly don`t want to be guilty of ’stereo typing’.

To your point on missile defense. Yes they can target inside Russia or Iran or whoever but the point is to target incoming missiles before they reach the soil being guarded. Defense.
But this is getting too sci-fic.
If you want to know what my main point is on the subject, check out my posting to Anonymous right before this one.

PC,

I DID read your other post, a remarkable compendium of nonsense and hyperbole laced with errors of assumption.

Take your point about voting for ‘the war.’ To begin with, Formad did NOT go before congress and ask for a declaration of war. Congress passed a bill authorizing the Prez to use force if it were required. This was based on falsified information (read, LIES, i.e., Sadaam has something to do with 9/11, Sadaam was building WMDs, etc.) given to Congress and the American people. There was, unless you slept through it, a powerful movement in this country, fueled by the Lemmings on the Right, to go to war. A lot of the middle-of-the-roaders got caught up in it, duped if you will. Those of us on the hard Left were against it from the get go.

Regardless of HOW the Left voted, Congress was going to pass the bill (bill, NOT declaration of war) so any congressman who was up for election in a swing area would have been STUPID, repeat, stupid, to fly in the face of his moderate constituents and vote against something so universally popular which would, need I repeat, be passed anyway. Now, YOU may believe ALL congressmen are stupid and given the representation you receive from the Right, I can understand your confusion, but in point of fact, most representatives from the Left are not, in fact, stupid. They may have different ideologies than you, but they are NOT stupid.

You couldn’t quit there, could you? You HAD to say that a lot of the Left was for unilateral disarmament. Please name ANY who were for UNILATERAL disarmament. (Please, don’t use bloggers, peaceniks or some journalist from the Des Moines Register.) The Left, as a body, has ALWAYS been for disarmament, quid pro quo.

If that weren’t enough, you ‘credit’ Reagan’s détente (no ‘a’ in the word) with bringing down the Berlin wall. Détente, to quote Wikipedia, was a term used to describe a thawing of cold war relations between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. in the late 60s to early 80s. It is most associated with Nixon/Kissinger and continued to some extent by Carter/Brezinski (sic). Reagan put an end to détente quickly and decisively.

Perestroika, restructuring, is the Russian term used for political and economic change initiated by Gorbechev in the late 80s which led to the fall of the communist regimes in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. Note I did NOT say perestroika led to the DECLINE and fall of those communist blocs. The decline had been underway since the 70s when Khrushchev was unseated and replaced by hardliner Brezhnev. The 70s was a period of hard economic times in the Soviet Union and Gorbachev recognized the U.S.S.R. could not keep up with the economics of the arms race it was engaged in with the U.S. It happened under Reagan’s ‘watch’ so he gets the lion’s share of the credit, more the pity.

But Carter took heat for the mess he inherited from Nixon and Clinton no doubt benefited from the ‘good feels’ resulting from the communist collapses (and the dot com phenomenon) and Obama will doubtless catch flack for the mess he’s inherited. It goes with the territory. That whole theme, of course, damns Formad even more inasmuch as they inherited unprecedented prosperity and turned it into wholesale devastation. (For those among you out there wondering what I would write about AFTER Formad. It AIN’T going away, children.)

Party’sCrashed: So disarmament is a bad idea? Keep looking under the bed. The boogeyman will be there soon!!!

Jed Clampett

Interesting, SWIM thinks that a true artist will give away his secrets in a simple interview and that he can accept a simple explanation for that artist’s complex body of work(particularly artists as complex and deep on so many levels as Pink Floyd), I didn’t think you were THAT shallow yet I learn new things everyday, it’s incredible to me that the complexity of human interaction can be reduced by some to… “we good, them bad”

DD, I wasn’t suggesting that you SHOULD get involved in other nation’s politics but the opposite. It is clear that the US for some reason feels entitled to impose itself in other countries political systems, but finds it insulting when Europe makes the comment on how poorly and evidently influenced by ’special interest’ money elections are in the US.
The point I was trying to make with my examples of Cuba, Vietnam and Chile is that Americans did not care about other nations’ freedom of speech or religion or government when their own leadership was stepping on those other nation’s rights.
By imposing a blockade on Cuba and it’s commerce, Americans said it was acceptable to impose on the freedom of government of a foreign nation and that they were justified in imposing ‘democracy’ by economic bullying(it’s even more disgusting when you recognize it was merely done because a bunch of mafiosi lost their casinos in Copacabana). By engaging in commerce with China, Americans are saying it is OK for those people to be treated as virtual slaves rather than as human beings, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, apparently having virtual slavery imposed on their fellow human beings is acceptable for Americans as long as they can imagine they are receiving a bargain of a deal.
These children who have never tasted their own blood, much less that of the enemy, say they would ‘defend to the death’ the right of someone to express their freedoms, but when the trumpet is sounded, they find reasons to ignore the clarion call when someone’s rights are being impugned by their own leaders. Could it be they would much rather wait till they HAVE to fight to the death, rather than move at a time when meaningful change can be achieved through diplomacy and action.
I had to read Animal Farm, since my teacher is given to use it as reference, I had to understand what some of the references were. It was amazing to see how the blueprint laid out by Orwell was used to perfection in my country in the run up to totalitarianism. It is the same blueprint used in Russia, Vietnam, Argentina and everywhere else where totalitarians have taken advantage of the populace.
It is even more amazing to see it happen here as well, I always thought the US was too advanced in education to allow that to happen, I learn new things everyday.
To me, the key of the pigs success in abusing their comrades and becoming just like those they were trying to liberate themselves from was complacency. The complacency of the other animals in failing to hold their leaders accountable for their misdeeds. The lazyness in refusing to understand the rules appropriately. The failure to act against those in power until they become too powerful to be easily dethroned.
The idolatry(fornication if you will) by the less educated of those in positions of leadership, the ability of those to follow blindly without realizing they are promoting policies that actually work against their personal interests. The poor workers who will work themselves to the death for an ideal and how easily they are mislead and robbed by a bunch of liars. I was amazed to see within Animal Farm the story of Nikola Tesla and his power and information distribution system.

The republic of the United States of America has been degraded from within to such an extent that it is scarcely recognizable as such. It is in the last steps towards totalitarianism, and even though a sage such as Orwell shared with us his enlightenment, revealed to him in dreams. through the magical form of books, no one seems to have understood the message and mostly had been merely ‘entertained’.
What a waste of a great master’s works, it’s like those that listen to the musical artists of today and only see the surface. I am glad there are some still alive who understand these teachings and not all are oblivious.
For someone to teach through literature is not an easy task, it takes a dissolution of the ego of the reader as well as the writer. Ego is as detrimental to learning as it is to teaching. Unfortunately, our modern way of life seems to be a way to feed and nourish the ego rather than minimize and vanquish it.
Somewhat incongruous with stated aims. Once again, a lie, a deceit, a con game.

So, at what point do American’s take their country back? When do they figure out what the ideals of their REPUBLIC are supposed to be? When do American’s hold their citizens responsible for holding up those ideals by respecting the laws enacted by their nation for the protection of all people, not merely those protected by their borders.
Animal Farm is about how a society is misled and subjugated by a totalitarian leadership, a selfish group that thinks itself more capable and wise than it’s subjugates and therefore acts arrogantly and selfishly without concern for the whole or the survival of the larger unit.
1984 is about how information, it’s control and delivery are manipulated and used in order to cause a desired effect in the population, how they are used to control the populations’ religiosity, political views and even how sex is enjoyed, or not.
Our nation is now in the middle pages of both those publications. Do you know how to protect against what is coming? Are you brave and bold enough to not let it happen to your nation? Or are you so sensitized to enemies abroad that you fail to see it when it is within your own shores and leadership? Are you merely too ‘entertained’ to hear the mystic rhythms and be moved by them to act for the benefit of the whole?

Wow, Jed, I’m terribly sorry, I forgot, you are always right and anyone who disagrees or has an opinion that varies from yours is either shallow or uneducated. That seems to be the same mentality you lambast others for using, but I suppose it is okay if you do it given that you are the chosen one, here to enlighten all of us shallow window lickers. It must be cool to be able to read Roger Waters’ mind and know what he was thinking when he wrote that song. But I’m sure it doesn’t compare to your ability to walk on water, right?

Jed Clampett

Well SWIMi, had you retorted with something intelligent like… ‘It seems that in that particular song they are making a statement on humanity and the complacency that allows them to trade hot ashes for trees (global warming) and allow their freedom to be taken from them (by not participating in the protests against war going on at the time), or the complacency of education that allows heroes with definite stories and deeds to become ghosts, mere illusions of what they really were.” I might think of you a little better. Instead you chose to avoid the words altogether and go after the writer and it’s personality, which you promptly mischaracterize, because in reality you have no skills to debate with in a rational manner or a point to make other than ‘we good, them baaaad’.

Your education system has failed you, but even worse, you have failed yourself; instead of recognizing the system’s failure and applying yourself and moving past the manipulation of the media and the mediocrity of the educational system, you have accepted the assimilation into self centered isolation without even a recognizing it.

Get it through you thick shield of an ego… there is NO CHOSEN ONE, there are many who are chosen, even fewer that respond, a miniscule number that actually stand out for doing so. We prefer to work incognito and unappreciated(helps us avoid those who prefer to merely stand in the way), that is what we are taught and we understand the reasons why; even though those like you don’t have the capacity to or will ever even bother to try and understand.

As for walking on water? You’d be surprised what human beings are capable of(particularly when working with water) when no longer inhibited by disbelief and free from a poisoned mind that tells them they are powerless; when they are no longer relegated to being useless little chicks pecking at the ground and tweeting at the air.
Where you to dedicate yourself to liberating your mind from the complacency and absurdity of selfishness, you might find your own talents and would have no need to be envious of the talents invested in others.
No one is incapable of escaping the veil of ignorance and complacency, one merely has to struggle to get out of it(embark on the personal Jihad if you will). Problem is that few believe they have enough personal power to break out of a paper tissue mummy wrap, much less break through the shell made by their own ego which prevents a realistic view of the world.

Thank you for proving my point Jed. So what you’re saying is if I would have agreed with your viewpoint that Pink Floyd wrote the song about global warming and the war, then you would think of me “a little better.” Again, if you disagree with the mighty Jed, then you are an ignorant, uneducated window licker, according to Jed himself of course.
Since you have problems with facts, lets see if this helps you out. The global warming you reference in the “hot ashes for trees” line wasn’t occurring at the time. In fact, the big environmental fear was of a global ice age as temperatures had dropped over the previous thirty years. People didn’t change their tune toward global warming until some years later.
As for your reference to “the protests against war going on at the time,” which protests might those have been? The band began recording in January of 1975 and while the Vietnam War officially ended in April of 1975, the US and it’s allies had begun withdrawing after the Paris Peace Accords were signed in January of 1973.
So Jed, maybe the song is about their fallen comrade Syd Barrett after all and your attempts to bastardize into supporting your point of view are ridiculous.

Jed Clampett

SWIMy, thanks for proving my point about the educational system and people’s own personal motivation. Seems you fall on the wrong side of that argument since you seem to lack even the most basic reading comprehension, do you really think that is what I said? Or is that just the way you deceive others in order to try and help your position? Do you really need to cheat and deceive if your side has such good ideas instead of lies? Hate to see how you scored on the reading comprehension part of the schoolastic aptitude test.

BTW – Tesla was working on electricity as a main motive power for our vehicles and the distribution of electricity and information without wires because he was concerned by the effects of pollution and deforestation at the turn of the 20th century.
Viktor Schauberger learned his mastery of water, soil and energy in hopes of forestalling the impending destruction of the planet’s viability due to deforestation and mismanagement of lands and waterways in the 1920s.
In the 60’s the social movement riles against greed, war, selfishness and the destruction of the environment.
In the 70s Americans were concerned enough about the environment to pass laws restricting disposal of toxic chemicals into the water and to reduce the amount of pollution in the air.
So, even though it wasn’t called Global Warming at the time, or Climate Change or any of the other catch phrases coined over the decades, intelligent people who are aware of what is being done to our world via the blind greedy bastards that control industry have always protested against our demise at their enrichment. So, it is very valid to think that the ‘did they get you to trade
black ashes for trees
hot air for the cool breeze’
line has to do with how deforestation and warming of the environment, resulting in a depreciation of our wealth and threat to our way of life.

Jed Clampett

SWIMy, thanks for proving my point about the educational system and people’s own personal motivation. Seems you fall on the wrong side of that argument since you seem to lack even the most basic reading comprehension, do you really think that is what I said? Are you lying or are you actually that dense? I’d hate to see how you scored on the reading comprehension part of the schoolastic aptitude test.

BTW – Tesla was working on electricity as a main motive power for our vehicles and the distribution of electricity and information without wires because he was concerned by the effects of pollution and deforestation at the turn of the 20th century.
Viktor Schauberger learned his mastery of water, soil and energy in hopes of forestalling the impending destruction of the planet’s viability due to deforestation and mismanagement of lands and waterways in the 1920s.
In the 60’s the soci@l movement riled against greed, war, selfishness and the destruction of the environment.
In the 70s Americans were concerned enough about the environment to pass laws restricting disposal of toxic chemicals into the water and to reduce the amount of pollution in the air.
So, even though it wasn’t called Global Warming at the time, or Climate Change or any of the other catch phrases coined over the decades, intelligent people who are aware of what is being done to our world via the blind greedy bastards that control industry have always worked against our demise at their enrichment. So, it is very valid to think that the ‘did they get you to trade
black ashes for trees
hot air for the cool breeze’
line has to do with deforestation and warming of the environment, resulting in a depreciation of our wealth and threat to our way of life.
I wasn’t giving you my interpretation of the song, just one of many possibilities that you could have presented that would have sounded smarter than what you actually did.
However, if you have an different and plausibly valid interpretation of the stanza, perhaps you could share it?