The 4th Amendment protects, first, citizens, against, second, unreasonable search and seizure. Note that some of the terrorists in question are not citizens, and note, too, that it is not unreasonable, or “irredeemably out of bounds,” to search and seize such outlaws to the laws of war. Your post is frantic. The legal arguments are complicated. A man tasked with protecting citizens, like Yoo, must make his arguments. If they overstep, Congress and the Court can correct him. But the matter requires coolness and sophistication, not ravings about dark sides and smug moral posturing.

FOA – you are a fascist.

Jed Clampett

I venture that Mr Yoo was pressured to write those memos by Cheney and Rumsfeld, the true architects of the destruction of American values and the economic system, and regulatory system, morality, etc etc.

Power, if you don’t imprison those who abuse it, their cohorts will only continue their coup de etat.

Mr. Yoo should be disbarred. Stanford Law School should have its accreditation suspended until Mr. Yoo is removed from the faculty.

Mr. Yoo should be disbarred. Stanford Law School should have its accreditation suspended until Mr. Yoo is removed from the faculty.

We have met the enemy and it is Yoo.

We have met the enemy and it is Yoo.

President Lincoln did suspend the Constitution and also allowed his generals to burn towns and citied to the ground. He is still a popular president, even now.

FDR threw Japanese Americans into camps just because they were Japanese Americans. He is still a popular president, even now.

Many early presidents owned slaves and they are still popular, even now.

JFK threatened to blow up the world and many Democratic presidents (including Bill Clinton)aspire to be the next JFK.

What dark side? He was just looking at options used by past popular presidents in time of war.

FoA and idiots like him miss the point – Yoo, Aschcroft, Gonzalez, Cheney, et al, were arguing for an imperial presidency that had the unilateral power to simply claim that a person – American citizen or otherwise – was a “terrorist” based on very loose legal definitions in the USA PATRIOT Act. After being marked as such by a limitless Executive, a person was subject to indefinite detention WITHOUT CHARGE or trial. That is the very definition of a tyrant. It is an issue that is sufficient to motivate me and others to armed Revolution for the sake of Liberty. Of course, FoA and other fascists will claim we were in a “war”. This claim is a lie. The “Global War on Terror” was said to be perpetual, without end in our generation. It is, in fact, a police action against a crime and Congress never declared war in any manner consistent with the Constitution.

Responding to Greg_D the Idiot,

President Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus in a time of insurrection as provided for in the Constitution. He did not “suspend the Constitution”. Regardless, this action and the actions of Gen. Sherman are widely held as a “dark side” to Lincoln’s administration.

FDR’s internment of Japanese Americans is also a widely acknowledged “dark side” to his administration.

That early American Presidents held slaves is certainly acknowledged as the “dark side” of early American history.

JFK actually tried to back down the tensions between the US and the USSR (and Cuba), so your point here is simply inaccurate.

So, “What dark side” you ask? Bush was establishing the legal work necessary to justify tyranny. But, maybe your hero worship of the man stunts your ability to recognize tyranny for what it is.

It’s always the dumbocrats fault, they sent our jobs overseas and open the door to China they started slavery and refused to end it and now want us all to be slaves giving away all our money to bankers an lawyers they will cause a revolution by taxin hard workin families and increasing taxes on the small business owners

It stands to reason that hydrocarbon condensate spills and crude oil spills in sensitive areas, which pose greater risks, should at least follow standards established for the equally important but less threatening spills. Over time, the Commission has come to believe the lack of enumerated standards for condensate spills hamstrings field personnel and perpetuates unacceptable risk to the water and subsurface water of the state. Commission staff therefore implements the following field guide to establish bench marks and protocols that, when met and followed, will demonstrate that condensate spills have been addressed in a manner that complies with Statewide Rules 8, 20 and 91.

Regardless of political stripes, the law is the law. The president may have the right to suspend national laws, but not international laws. Bush & Co. have committed crimes against humanity, crimes for which there is no immunity or statue of limitations. We ourselves defined these as the highest of all crimes. To NOT prosecute would make us complicit in these crimes.

Jed Clampett

This kind of flies in the face of Mitch McConnell’s message to CPAC, which included a rant against the ‘Fairness Doctrine’ that threatens to muzzle their attack dogs in the media.

Was watching the speeches of the second day, AM session. I was reminded of the importance of language and inflection.

John Cornyn was first and his speech was mostly a call to Fight. He repeated the word several times with Democrats, government and the president as the target. He promised the appointment of ’strict constructionist judges’, which basically means they hope to gut the judiciary’s fairness to the people over corporations. He riled against Republicans In Name Only who would vote their conscience and constituency rather than toe the party line. Pluralism or individuality will not be tolerated in the party.

Jim DeMint was next and his speech was full of loaded words like Fight, rage, target and shoot. His main gripe was government and how IT is the cause of all our problems, not the solution. He attempted to resurrect Reagan even though they went behind his back with the Iran Contra affair and almost killed him off with a CIA zombie. Repeatedly indirectly called for the dissolution of government and even it’s overthrow.

Bohner was next and his was almost funny were it not for it’s treasonous nature. He mostly vilified the Stimulus Bill and showed with pride how he disrespected the house by throwing the text of the bill on the floor, he mainly categorized it as soci@lism. He even went as far as saying that is was government that brought down the economy instead of deregulation and relaxed taxation. He proclaimed they won’t be the party of no, not the obstructionists, but the party of solutions(as they so clearly showed in the stimulus debates, not). Words like ‘unleash the power of freedom on Americans’ which may be prophetic considering the ‘power of freedom’ they unleashed on the Middle East. He then went on to speak of their need to use new media as they’ve used Fox and friends to spread the Love. Using twitter and facebook to help their cause ‘If you want to get plugged in, you’ll be able to plug in’. He probably didn’t realize how it correlated to the Matrix movies. He finished off with a story about playing high school football and winning because they BELIEVED they would win and were willing to make the SACRIFICES necessary. Closed off with a call to FIGHT, JOIN THE FIGHT.

McConnel then started off by calling the event a conservative Spring Break and I couldn’t help but think of Linda Jean Palfrey, who a few days before being found hanging by her neck had emphatically stated she would serve her time and would never entertain the thought of suicide. Repeatedly called to ’stage a coup… er, comeback’. The use of the ’stage a’ sure sounded like keywords to me. Mostly talked about reviving Reagan as well and ‘recruiting’ more minority members. He ridiculed the closing of Guantanamo as symbolism over safety, getting a laugh from the crowd when he asked where they would go if released. Called for an end to collective bargaining and characterized the re-funding of government oversight and inspection structures as Europization of America, then called on his membership to become a SOLDIER for the party.

Strange, I had never noticed this level of vileness from that side of the isle before. Will force myself to watch the others, but I can imagine they merely increase the rhetoric to a crescendo ending with Limbaugh, the true spokesman of the party.
I’ve seen this before growing up in Chile, it’s weird to see it developing again here.

Power, sometimes it’s carried by words in the hands of skilled manipulators, resounding in automatons’ ears as a call to violent resistance. Maintaining ‘plausible deniability’.

BoBo, Lincoln suspend 9 of 10 of the first 10 amendments (the exception was the 2nd Amendment) to The Constitution and basically shut off a whole branch of government. That sounds like he suspended The Constitution to me.

Greg,

Please cite the documents Lincoln issued supporting your claim.

Whatever – You can debate all you want the facts are the facts. We were lied to after 9/11 and manipulated by a gang of crooks who used “security” as a way to get what they wanted. They are criminals and should be treated as such. If you really want to think about it didn’t 9/11 create exactly what Bush/Cheney wanted ?? Of course it did look at the state of the middle east and the USA. perpetual war … if you have an interest in the defense industry then 9/11 was a godsend……. Think about it !

I like to post under different names like Crooks and Republican Hack makes me giggle.

Tee-hee-hee!

I like to post under different names like Crooks and Republican Hack because it makes me giggle.

Tee-hee-hee!

Voting one’s conscience rather than toe the party line. Sounds like what Joe Lieberman did and was then crucified by his own party for having done so.

Obama doesn’t have the balls to authorize an investigation.

This site doesn’t like links, but the info on Lincoln and the Civil War is in every high school history book. Lincoln suspended all the rights in the Southern States. Online there are sites like Anthony Gregory’s essay at lewrockwell.

Amendments broken:
1. He personally ordered certain newspapers shut down.
3,4,5 The most famous example was turning Gen. Lee’s property into Arlington cemetery. Only after the Civil War was the owner paid. The spoils of war was also in effect so farms were raided without payment for example.
6,7,8 President Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.
9,10 The creation of certain deparments and regulations that had historically went to the state had now become part of the federal establishment. You can read that in Anthony’s essay.

Prof. Yoo was a lowly DOJ scapegoat. He is a brillant – although sadly misguided – constitutional law scholar who unfortunatly was the only one Bush/Cheney/Rove could find to be the fall guy. Yoo was willing to write a LEGAL OPINION that was to the LETTER of the law as he interpruted in his idiot savant way, not in the spirit of the law as it was intended to be executed. Bush, Cheney, Rove and Rumsfield are the ones who execute the law and they are the ones who should go to jail. I can only hope that the Senate Truth Committee (ok, that sounds like an oxymoron) truly takes action.

Oh, very good, I’m a “fascist” and an “idiot.” Would you mind awfully if I confessed that I’m not persuaded? Name-calling is the business of children, not adults; it may be therapeutic, but it is not an argument. But never mind these great legal thinkers and their searching analysis. I hope that Rolling Stone, and Tim Dickinson in particular, take good note of the sophistication and temper of their readers. Are you impressed? I hope not!

Jed Clampett

The president doesn’t have to start the investigations, the Hague and International Tribunal have already started theirs and they have plenty of evidence; starting with the way the invasion of Iraq was carried out without a declaration of war or any legal justification or consideration beyond facade.
It is the responsibility of the department of Justice to start such investigations within the country and the new attorney general has expressed his intent.

Congress also has a duty to investigate the myriad of evident crimes by the administration, but since Pelosi and Reed are members of the same cabal that owns many of key positions in congress, that didn’t even happen when given a clear mandate in ‘06. The only one with any valor in congress was Kucinich and he was ridiculed in classic Limbaugh style.
Whether anything comes out of any investigations is still fodder for debate, but considering America has an entire department and huge budget dedicated to a Corporate Influence Agency whose sole role is to obfuscate and obscure truth and corporate role in crime, chances are a coup d’etat will be enacted upon the US as said agency has done so many times abroad and perfected to an art.

Power, those responsible for it’s misuse are usually mere tools for they that truly wield it.

This is the Red Pill. This will show you our political system in a way that will make you truly understand the only things which truly matter.

://www.yo utube .com/ user/ST0PandL00K

That was not me in the earlier ‘Crooks and Republican Hack’ post. The easily disgusted brat is at his dirty work again…….

Jed Clampett

Thanks Indi, the stop and look series was like Pringles, can’t stop at just one.

Power, carried in words or images, the results always follow the intent.

Tnx Greg.

The events you cite are all examples of unprecedented use of Executive power. Of course, in an unprecedented situation: civil war. To my knowledge from reading quite a bit about the period, the only open violation of the U.S. Constitution was the suspension of Habeas Corpus. The others were extraordinary efforts to fulfill his executive duty to ‘defend the constitution.’ Most historians agree that Lincoln REALLY stretched the bounds of his authority, sometimes ruthlessly. His riding roughshod over Maryland is one example. The newspaper closures is another.

But those are not violations of the constitution and are justified by most as taking place in an unprecedented atmosphere.

I find it difficult to believe you would cite suspending constitutional rights to the rebellious states as defense of your argument. You reference high school history books and unless they’ve changed since I attended, the southern states declared cessation from the Union and forcibly took control of federal property, an act of war. Too, I doubt they much cared if Lincoln defended THEIR constitutional rights.

On that point, the whole issue of cessation isn’t, to me at least, all that clear in the Constitution. As a people, we have the ‘right,’ should we not ‘like’ our government, to overthrow it. (Not likely.) But the issue of leaving and taking part of the United States with you isn’t clearly defined. I believe it’s popularly accepted that you can not. Doing so, as several Right Wing extremists have discovered, will get you in trouble.

As to the farms and Mr. R.E.Lee, war is hell and the South, including Mr. Lee, chose to engage in military combat with the U.S., to great expense and loss of life to the Union. At the end of such hostilities, it’s common for the loser, ESPECIALLY if they’re the instigator, to pay reparations. The burning of farms was no different than the destruction of weapons factories, an attempt to destroy the enemy’s ability to wage war.

I hope you will agree that had Lincoln NOT prevailed, the U.S. would be a splinter of small, nation states not unlike Eastern Europe and that, likely, we would NOT have come to the aid of Europe in 1940 and we’d all be speaking German now. Me, I cut ol Abe a LOT of slack for his behavior.

Now, if you’re STILL upset about ol Abe, chalk it all up to him being a Republican. What do you expect?

DD-
You raised the issue of cessation and the Constitution. I wonder if you have been following the sovereignty movement that is underway in this country. An increasing number of states are passing resolutions declaring their rights of sovereignty under the 9th and 10th Amendments. I am not sure how I feel about this movement, but I find it interesting and worthy of consideration. This is a huge ‘national affair’ buy has garnered very little media attention.

Jed Clampett

They prefer to keep that ‘movement’ out of the limelight until it has grown to such a crescendo that it is difficult to stop. Another means of surreptitiously taking the greatest prize. The United States of America and it’s drones.

Power, those that misuse it prefer to keep it hidden until they have gathered enough of it to wield it effectively.

what wasn’t mentioned in the blog post is that the head of OLC reversed Yoo’s opinions in October of 2008. these memos were ‘law’ for 7 whole years. anyone who thinks military raids on US soil are necessary to combat terrorism is an idiot.

from the book “Angler,” it’s suggested that Yoo had an expansionist view of the executive which fell in line with Cheney and Addington’s view. thus whenever they needed an opinion, they looked to Yoo for validation.

Jed Clampett

How about that, they realized that McCain was going to loose so they took the provisions they had set for themselves out. Talk about corrupt.

The founding fathers sure understood this conundrum, particularly since they were the insurgents of their day and the ones who’s actions precipitated the busting down of their compatriots doors. Yet they still put those provisions into the highest parts of law. Yet today, with the excuse of the ’scourge of drugs’ they allow the police to use those same military tactics we have seen being visited upon the people of Iraq. What a sad and almost inextricable predicament. But after seeing what they did to those people in Waco, nothing surprises me from these creatures anymore.

Power, in it’s freely generated electrical form, can be used to collect water from the atmosphere through condensation, split it into it’s component elements and combined again with a spark. Mastery of the natural cycle of energy is completely possible and unmonopolizable.

mostlystupid Gen. Andrew Jackson was the first to launch military raids in the U.S. against terrorists including his stunt of invading Spanish Florida and seizing, as a general, the territory for the U.S. Buchanan invaded the territory of Utah against those Mormon “terrorists.” Even Bill Clinton sent in the military to go after those “terrorists” in Waco, Texas. Bush Jr. never used U.S. troops to go after terrorists on U.S. soil although he probably would have if more terror attacks started popping up from sleeper cells. Obama might even do that.

Ole,

Hadn’t seen it but a quick google revealed quite a bit of action.

I fear state sovereignty is like Adam Smith’s capitalism: a nice thought. I’m all for the concept but fear many states would return to Jim Crow status. Or worse. Poll Taxes? Poll tests? Substandard environmental standards?

I still don’t think the Hague is going to do anything as far as pursuing charges against Bush or Cheney. Jed, if you know of anything particular in the “plenty of evidence” they have, I’d be interested to find out what it is. They didn’t even go after Francois Mitterrand or Eduoard Balladur for their alleged role in at the very least providing aid and support to the Hutu militias against the Tutsis. And that was a goddamn genocide!

Somewhere– it would be a case of the morally bankrupt prosecuting the morally bankrupt…

And you’d have to haul in Blair, Putin, Israel’s PM, Burlesconi, and whomever else went along with it to…in any case, life has certainly moved on, so the Hague aint gonna do a thing…espescially when the US foots the majority of its bill

they will never have the balls to presecute bush money talks and bullsht walks so get to walkin this is our country and no liburals are gonna stand in our way of driving out the mexicns and vietcong

youll all be working for us soon enjoy the freedom we brought you heres the bill
hahaha

Jed Clampett

Isn’t it sad that we are the only ‘industrialized’, ‘modern’ country whose Public Broadcast Service has to go on the air, and beg and cajole their public into donating to it’s cause in order to keep informative programs on? Doesn’t say much for the country’s political class.

Fourth rule, if memory serves me right as to the order, is represented by the same hand basket as before, however, this time some of the eggs are broken open and little chicks are all about pecking at the ground and doing what winged babies do. Some eggs are merely cracked but obviously never opened, others are crushed and a couple have a wispy steam above them. The caption reads, “don’t count your chickens before they hatch”.
Once again, this has nothing to do with actual chicks or chickens but a much deeper matter. It means don’t rely on everything developing as expected.
As most military experts know and fools ignore, the best laid plans can go afoul when they meet reality.
Sometimes the shells fail to crack and the chick dies within it. Other times, the egg is rotten and the contents wasted. Sometimes external forces crack the egg and consume the contents before the chick can be born. And then there’s the realization that not all eggs contain chicks; some have crows, others songbirds, and yet others lizards and snakes; and still others fleas, ants and other insects. Even when you have a handful of chicks, there is no guarantee all of them will grow to be Roosters or productive hens. Some are just plain chickens.

Power, those that have it typically don’t realize it has the power to give and take life. Others rely on this fact and use it to manipulate the flock.

Jed Clampett

Just finished listening to Mr. Donovan Campbell (Joker 1) on “Fresh Air” retelling his experience in MessOpotamia. Many thanks for your service and honorable disposition sir. Many here would be well served to follow your example and lead with bravery and honor, with respect and caring for your men, while trying to protect the ‘freedoms’ of a bunch of ingrates that don’t understand what freedom really means. SEMPER FI brother SEMPER FI.

A silver-spoon born again Christian moron and a fascist monger that laid out five deferments because “he had better things to do during the Vietnam War” are given the presidency/vice-presidency after the most controversial election in American history, gee what could possibly happen?

Jed Clampett

Rube dear, that’s silver foot.

Jed Clampett

did you know that when the whole of a human being is taken into consideration. Including it’s surrounding electromagnetic field, the shape is much like that of an egg? Just so those who are capable of understanding can grasp the parables and rules I bring forth a little better. My teacher never has put all her eggs in one basket, nor counted her chickens before they hatch, so she never has a single point of failure. you might think there is only one loaf of bread and one fish, but truth is fish are everywhere, they merely have to recognize themselves as such, and bread can be made from almost any grain, not just wheat or chickpea or corn. It doesn’t have to be leaven to be bread, to be nourishing, just ask a gordita