Oh Puhlease!!I Am so Tired Of The Kennedy’s Constant Complaining About Stolen Elections and Everything!!
Granted,I’m No Fan Of The Current administration,and The Bushes Are As Every Bit as F’ed Up and dysfunctional as The Kennedy’s,But
The Kennedys Are Hardly The Paragons Of Virtue Themselves!!
His Daddy and Uncles Jack and Teddy Were All A Bunch Of Horn Dogs and His Grandpa Joe was Very Anti Semitic and a Nazi Sympathizer As well as A Womanizing SOB!!!

And He Needs To Go Dig A Little More Into His Family’s Past Before He Screams About Stolen Elections!!
I Guess He Conviently forgets All how His Kennedy and Fitzgerald Ancestors Not to Mention His Grandpa Were All Political bosses Who Rigged Elections and Bought Votes Long Before He Was Even Born!!
Next Time You want To Discuss Rigged Elections,Get Someone Other Than A Kennedy To write About It!!

Evidence of GOP vote tampering is well established. Don’t let your personal issue with the Kennedys cloud your judgement. By the way, JFK and RFK were both killed by a Government consipiracy.

who was it that said, “it doesn’t matter who votes…what matters is who COUNTS the votes…”

Here we go again!

Jed Clampett

That would have been Stalin that coined that statement.
Another despot who eliminated his enemies through force, a Nazi sympathizer until he discovered their true intentions and was attacked by them himself. Fascists should know not to trust other fascists.

These days, the right wing leadership of corporate despots have rediscovered that fact and put it into action with voting machines that have no way of being recounted by humans. In other words, they put their faith in flawed machines programmed and controled by greedy, flawed men.

Peace

Jed Clampett

To PC, Glib and others who keep saying that voting is the way to remove an unrepresentative government or to dissolve the established form of government.

Zimbabwe has always had elections since their liberation from Britain. Yet their elections keep being usurped by those that ‘count the votes’ and control the media to manipulate the common consciousness, to such an extent that inflation is now measured in the thousands percent, people are brutalized by the ’security services’ and the women have taken to the streets in protest because their men have mostly left the country to find work or are too afraid of being murdered.
I doubt any of you guys would understand or be able to muster the courage necessary to liberate your nation once it is taken over by the oligarchs.

http://www.iht.com/articl es/2008/10/17/africa/profile.p hp

What does it think it means that ‘the Bradley effect’ is being so prominently peddled about in the mass media outlets? A way to pre-explain how an election is stolen perhaps.

Peace

BTW,
Prescott Bush was also a Nazi sympathizer.

Jed Clampett

How about this; unlike Sen Obama’s loose associations with Mr Ayers and Rev Wright, McCain’s palling around with Keating is well documented and even proudly attested to in his books. Keating single-handedly brought down the economy and cost tax payers Billions of dollars that were never really recovered. McCain should be asked what, if any, influence in his economic policies his pal Keating would have in his administration. What about the old curmudgeons Ted Stevens and Phil Gramm.

Other Nazi sympathizers, Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, Pope Pius XII, JP Morgan, and other leaders of industry who admired the Fuhrers ‘cleansing’ of the poor and were sanctioned for assisting his war effort, IBM provided the computer punch-card system to keep track of activities at concentration camps.
Let us not forget that preceding the US involvement in WWII our congress demanded payment in CASH from England and France as they were attacked by Germany and that during the war some were sanctioned for their assistance to the german war effort.
American firms assisted Germany in secretly rebuilding his army in contravention of international law established after WWI.
The European reconstruction effort favored Germany over other European nations, giving them a supremacy in economic and scientific endeavors after the war and tying their economy directly with US.
After the war, America imported Nazi Scientists, Physicists, Doctors and Aristocrats to protect them from the hardships of reconstruction.
Did those Nazis in American institutions have no influence on society? Ask Pat Buchanan.

Peace

Jed– its a bit of a stretch to compare here to Zimbabwe…no party has armed paramilitaries to cajole the populace into voting for them, and any “disenfrachisement” we have here, either real or imagined, is small potatoes compared to Mugabe’s dictatorship.

Also, more money was invested in Germany after WWII because it was, and still is, the economic powerhouse of the European continent. Germany is to the European economy what America’s is to the world–when it falters, so to does everyone else. In terms of output, GDP, and other economic statistics, Germany is tops on the continent (So do you think we should have left Germany in ruins?)

In order to stave off another depression, we hedged our bets and decided that rebuilding the German economy would be beneficial for the US and Europe…as it has been. And we gobbled up all of the Nazi scientists and whomever, because if we didnt, the Soviets would. Conspiracy? maybe, balance of power politics? most definitely. Some at the top may have been Nazi sympethizers (Henry Ford, etc), remember it was during the Great Depression…IBM could have cared less who they were s.elling to as money was money in hard times, and the Nazi’s more heinous exploits wouldnt become well known until 1944-45

Also: to be fair, how about asking Obama’s economic advisors as to their part in the current economic problems (of which I’m course is ALL republican based…)

Jed Clampett

All pretty excuses.
I guess in your book, as long as someone is making money; making slaves out of your compatriots, destroying the environment, smearing a political candidate, protecting Nazis is all justified.

Are you human or just a machine? I guess when you think in Binary, us vs them, republican or democrat, white vs black, Christian vs Muslim, it all makes perfect sense. Personally, I know I’m decimal, human if you will, and understand that no major groups are innocent and all have good and bad within them, so try as you might to smear democrats, or Arabs, or Muslims or whatever division you wish to create to justify your hate, I understand where it comes from.
You guys all act and speak about the same for a reason.

BTW- I used to think it couldn’t happen in my country either, then again, back then I was a child and thought this was heaven. Probably because I could remember my past, now I that I’m older I can understand what my heaven is being turned into.

Peace

Jed– your being a bit generic, dont you think? I’m not apologizing for anything; I’m only stating why things happened the way they happened. Dont paint with so broad a brush that your posts degrade into breathless hyperbole the minute someone decides to question your logic or your thinking. Not every event is linked to a conspiracy… you call it apologizing, I call it putting things in perspective (which in turn would raise the question, what was your point about the whole Nazi connection anyway?)…sometimes a cigar is just a cigar as Freud would say…

I spread my disdain all over, to hypocrites of all stripes…and have never personally condemned Dems, Arabs, etc in such broad stripes as you convienently do, then critize others for doing the same. If you have evidence of such, prove it. Dont wallow in overheated rhetoric which serves as a mask for generic, warmed over, and long disproven liberal ideas.

Jed Clampett

excuses do no equate to apologies nor do I expect one from you, not necessary (where did I say apology?), you truly don’t amount to much in the grand scheme of things other than merely a supporter and mouthpiece (unless you wanted to compel your leadership to do so).
If there had been apologies there would have been admission of wrongdoing, no one has done that and probably never will. Which tells me there was ill intent to begin with and an attempt to avoid responsibility. While I’m not one to seek retribution, I can understand why it will be visited upon this nation again, I’m merely hoping to prevent it by illuminating those who will listen and hopefully they will demand a change from their leadership. I can always return home, where will you go? Mexico? Considering how you’ve treated Mexicans I don’t recommend it. It seems inconceivable to me that you have to wait till the situation descends to the level of Zimbabwe before you recognize what is going on and decide to do something about it. When they have control of the military and police, it is already too late. It may already be too late, Americans have been too complacent, they seem to have forgotten what they had to fight against a mere half century (or less) ago.

TD, if you get a chance, check out Dr. William Black’s testimony to the Senate Agriculture Committee explaining the failure of the economy. Then the testimony by Dr Richard Lindsey for Bear Sterns obscuring the issue. Quite interesting stuff. It can be watched on C-span site, just do a video search by date and committee.

Great news. BMW is getting ready to start leasing an all electric Mini with a 150 mile range next year in LA. Hopefully it will start all the other car companies doing the right thing.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/ pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081018 /FREE/810179986/1065

Peace

The Enemy Below: If I interpret your post correctly then I guess we should only have perfect people from perfect families work to protect our vote, right? I didn’t know that one must be a paragon of virtue to investigate and write about election fraud.

I suppose we need some pure virgins to do that job. Good to know. Those damn Kennedy’s spending their lives in service to our country should be ashamed of themselves.

Jed– Now there you go again, painting me as some mindless drone of ulterior motives so that you dont have to actually debate on points…just because we disagree doesnt mean that either of us is right or wrong…I’m a free thinking individual who simply has differing beliefs, and your broad painting does disservice to both our intelligences

And I just happen to have more faith in what the country can endure than you I suppose…Obama is the next president, for better or worse, and nothing looks to change that (at least coming from the McCain campaign) so I just dont b.uy into your view of the US becoming another Zimbabwe as a result of contended voter fraud, either real or imagined…the country has survived worse than current conditions, and things will right themselves eventually…you’ll be singing a smug tune come November, so I wouldnt be too worried.

yo, junior, was that you calling hillary at 3:00am? what now? gonna write a book ’bout being catholic as well?

From DemocracyNow:

“Mexican authorities have arrested two activists in the murder of the independent journalist Brad Will. Speculation has long centered around police officers and pro-government militants in Will’s death. Some were initially arrested in the months after the shooting, but ultimately released. But today the government is accusing two members of the popular movement APPO, the group opposed to state governor Ulises Ruiz. Will’s family has criticized the charges, calling the arrests a sham.”

This is truly ridiculous! Will himself shot footage of his attackers right before he was shot and killed. The perpetrators were well-known government goons. The only way they can convict the activists is to completely ignore the evidence (which is apparently exactly what they are doing).

Jed Clampett

I don’t have to paint you as anything, you do a very good job of that yourself. I merely wait till it becomes too much to bear and point it out.
You are evidently not mindless, compared to the DarkWingManiac for example… we all have feewill, however, it takes alot of work to maintain it, particularly in this day and age when so much is done to take the freewill from us. People tend to be complacent and not do the work necessary to maintain that freewill and therefore their freedom.

You say I paint you with a broad brush when I have deliberately pointed out specifics. You try to paint me as a liberal, democrat supporter whacked out on drugs, yada yada. Although by now you know I happen to be independent and if it was the Democrats that are raising false issues, such as ACORN, and creating prejudice, such as the hatred against Arabs in general, I would be as opposed to their ascent to power as I am to the Republicans. I watch the proceedings of the congress almost addictively, something I’m sure you would be bored with and would switch to some entertaining TV program instead, because I understand what is at stake. And my assessment is that Republicans act with singular coordination in their tactics which are designed to get themselves into positions of power or maintain them. To me, this is absurd and perhaps criminal, particularly with all the problems facing our nation today.
When everything turns into a p!ssing contest, then the business of governing breaks down and the people’s business is ignored, even this is part of their tactic to make people loose their faith in government and therefore privatize everything.
This is quite evident in the economic collapse that has been visited upon us. Neither party is addressing the real issue, the disparity in pay within corporations that have been allowed to monopolize everything and the culture of greed that has overtaken this country.
If you watched Zarkozy’s speech the other day, you will realize the Europeans recognize this problem and who it’s main proponent is. So does the rest of the world.

In my eyes, neither party is insulated from my ire or blameless (that decimal thing). Pelosy should have started proceedings to remove Bushney and their criminal enterprise two years ago, but preferred to listen to her corporate masters rather than her constituency. Perhaps some of the problems we face today could have been averted or diminished.
I understand, however, that the Dems are our best bet to try to steer the ship away from the huge Iceberg we are headed for, though history leads me to believe they will also be derelict in their duties and blinded by money. Politicians seldom listen to the experts, they prefer to let leaders of industry make laws with their armies of lawyers and usually it is the general public that is left holding the short straw.
It’s all a shell game carried out through deception, and if you don’t understand what drives that deception, or choose to not understand, then ultimately that is your choice.
Personally, I will choose freewill.

It seems you think it’s ok to make the country ‘endure’ all the ills that our leadership keeps allowing the corporate entities to pile upon us, I prefer to have political parties that choose to help the country ‘rise above’, prosper, rather than endure.
While I have faith in my fellow human beings, what does worry me more than the country is this big BLUE MARBLE (and what IT must endure) we all must share and some seem intent on destroying with collusion from our leadership. Perhaps they choose to believe that it’s God’s will and they are merely doing God’s work in order to release all these souls, maybe they are totally ignorant of what they are doing and don’t care how they harm the Homeworld because they prefer trinkets regardless of what their offspring will have to ‘endure’.
I tend to believe the way my ancestors did rather than some vengeful, divisive, destructive ideal that makes absolutely no sense. You must think of how your actions will affect seven generations ahead, it may just be yourself that is affected.

Nice use of Reagan’s quote, though ineffective. If you really wanted to address issues point by point with the intent of doing anything more than wasting time and clouding issues, I might entertain you, but the fact that you ignore rebuttals when you are clearly beaten rather than accepting your position is erroneous, leads me to realize that it would be a waste of time… as far as your enlightenment is concerned.

Peace

TFH,

Evidence of GOP voter tampering is well documented. Oh yeah, where?

TFH,

Evidence of GOP voter tampering is well documented. Oh yeah, where?

Can we stop with the Oliver Stone conspiracies, please. And enough with Prescot Bush.

How about the conspiracy to cover up Ted Kennedy`s leaving Mary Jo Kopechne to die in a car under water.

And I`m a big fan of JFK. But most Historians believe that the Mayor Daley, Chicago, Cook County, Dem Party Machine, fixed the election big time. Dead people voting is a long running Chicago joke.

Hmmm Chicago?
Why does that ring a bell?
You think it was a co-incidence that Al Capone set up shop their?

Chicago politics is famous for it`s corruption.

People in Nixon`s campaign wanted to contest the election results with JFK but he declined. He didn`t want to divide the country.

Don`t get your history from an Oliver Stone Movie you`ll end up sounding like a fool.

Jed Clampett

You should have been watching the house committee meeting I was watching this today from 9/28 (Conyers presiding).
It was about preparations for the election, elections commision I believe. The first panel was election officials, some from the states being investigated for ACORN discrepancies. The officials, almost to a man, agreed that most dirty tricks favor the republican party and are sanctioned by law. From insane and obtrusive voting requirements that usually ensnare the poor who don’t have drivers licenses because they don’t drive, to the elderly who may make a mistake in filling out an absentee ballot petition. The official from Virginia was appalled at how many absentee ballot requests he was being forced to deny, and the intrusive questions being asked.
The next panel was a group of attorneys for several rights organizations. They had plenty of documented evidence and convictions of voter fraud, intimidation, favoritism, misinformation, poorly trained workers, failed machinery, etc. etc. Usually favoring republicans, they must cheat because they are fewer in numbers. That is why they appeal to emotional stupidity rather than reason, such as real issues.

If you really want evidence, you may want to enlighten yourself by actually watching proceedings instead of just swallowing what the right wingers feed you like a little hamster.

Peace

PC,

Oliver Stone has no role in my historical awareness. However you must remember that you are talking to a guy in a tinfoil hat.

You can accuse me of being a paranoid conspiracy freak, but you cannot accuse me of not doing my research. And after extensive research I am convinced of certain things. Here are some of them:

JFK was assassinated by a government conspiracy.

RFK was assassinated by a government conspiracy.

9/11/01 was either the result or was allowed to happen due to a government conspiracy.

I do not doubt that Chicago was (in 1960 under Daily) a cesspool of Democratic corruption.

I also do not doubt that in 2004 Ohio was a cesspool of Republican corruption,

as was Florida in 2000.

Though you apparently want me to spoon-feed the evidence to you bit by bit, I politely decline. There is way too much of it to rewrite in this comments section. But I would be happy to point you in the right direction.

I would point you again to the following sources:

Rolling Stone – See above

Mark Crispin Miller – Looser Take All

Stephen Spoonamore (search on youTube)

If those GOP brownshirts show up within 150 miles of MY county and pound on doors and windows demanding officials to stop counting votes like they did in Florida in 2000, I’m gonna start with kneecaps…

Robert Kennedy junior has nothing to do with his family’s mistakes…

Robert Kennedy junior has nothing to do with his family’s mistakes…