If these people can’t even stand up to a dead president walking, what’ll they do if the unthinkable happens?

What a joke these guys are.

I was always quick to defend congressional Dems, but this is nauseating. What a bunch of pussies we have for leaders.

There is one reason and one reason only Steny Hoyer pulled the shady backroom crap he did, pulling a bipartisan coalition together to grant immunity to the illegal actions of the telecoms: money.

Hoyer-and the rest of the democratic puppets of corporate campaign donors-are part of the gangrenous and corrupt “democratic government” we claim to be proud of in this nation of idiots.

And why would Hoyer be worried? Come November he’s not exactly favored to lose. And the companies he helped with this spineless stunt -Comcast- won’t be broadcasting any trips down this particular memory lane come November either. They all know this type of constitution evisceration gets forgotten tommorrow.

The government we have today is a sick, corrupt and dysfunctional body that seems to exist solely for the benefit of the people who bribe it. The Democrats (and-what a surprise-the Republicans) have today created two classes of people: those who break the law and can be punished and those who break the law and can’t.

God bless america.

Jed Clampett

Only one way to explain it.

Go back to the telecom hearings a year or two ago when they were debating wether to let ATT increase it’s monopoly over communications. When the leaders of industry… the big, big money… was testifying, there were no empty seets in the congressional stands and there were congressmembers standing besides their collegues in order to get some face time in front of the uber wealthy and powerful (My CEO was there, he received over $20 million in compensation last year yet they froze pensions and are getting rid of hard working americans while opening up our most sensitive networks to muslim programming shops in india).
Then the panel cleared out and the experts filed in. As the camera panned to the congressmembers seating area it was obviously noticeable that only the speaker and a ranking member were present. To our political leadership, experts don’t matter, information doesn’t matter, all that matters is money and power, the type of money and power that comes from huge industry, from industries that have monopolized our markets and exploited it’s customers with help of government. No corporations, such as newscorp, gets so much control and a virtual monopoly over the media and therefore the populace without a certain amount of help from the legislative body. That is also the way big oil became a monopoly in fuels, plastics, industrial chemicals and of course, the production of cancer in living beings.

Another explanation for the Democrats caving in on this: Some of them knew the illegal wiretapping and torturing were going on, and, therefore, could find themselves defending prosecution. It’s called collusion?

What concerns me most is this: Why do we need this legislation? Because of one attack that could have been thwarted, and may have been aided? The Bush Administration has set up a system that will allow for prosecutions without needing any evidence. Those ‘prosecutions’ will help move their ideology along, which is to dismantle OPEC, and have an ‘American’ oil colony in the Middle East (under the guise of freedom and democracy). Can you spread freedom with violence? Quite an anomoly huh?

(Merkwurdigliebe)

hmm, I though all the sheep who voted Dem were voting for change, guess this is a rude awakening…meet the new boss, same as the old boss

Hopefully now we can really put to rest that the Dems are any different/better/Worse than the Republicans…and this goes for the current candidates

“Hopefully now we can really put to rest that the Dems are any different/better/Worse than the Republicans…and this goes for the current candidates”

No moron.

Democrats did not “recommend” that telecoms break the law, Republicans did. Just because the dems are spineless enough to not prosecute a crime doesn’t mean they committed that crime. I’d hope someone of even your reduced mental faculties could fathom that.

Wait a minute, I’m talking to the idiot who doesn’t even believe in the judicial system. What was I thinking? If idiot were a political party, Merkwurdigliebe would be its leader. The sad thing is that Americans might even vote for him.

Try again, moron.

(Merkwurdigliebe)

Hellooo– you’re one to talk, you cant even comprehend basic economics, international relations, the nature of the media, and distort and resort to hyperbole when confronted…worst of all, you’re wrong in just about anything and detract from the very nature of debate

you’re posts are a complete waste of information encoded on this page

(Merkwurdigliebe)

Hellooo- I love your idiotn logic (honestly, and you have the cojones to call anyone else retarded): the dems went along, but didnt do anything to stop it, and are therefor blameless, huh?…uh accessory to the crime anyone? As Coach previously stated, its called collusion, moron

Jed Clampett

Seems to me all humanity is equally guilty for allowing the evil to rise and spread among us. It is absurd and futile to try to blame any one group or entity, when they would have not been able to do what they did were the public not complacent and refusing to hold bad leadership sccountable. Do you guys not realize that our political leadership are not the ones in control? hell, they don’t even know how to do their basic function… design and write the laws in such a way as to benefit the majority. Instead, they allow industry to write the law and benefit themselves at the expense of the public.

No, the whole gets judged as one. ‘What you do to the least among you, you do unto me.’
The species has to be judged as a whole and it seems we have been found deficient in morality, compassion, empathy and rightousness. Even though there are a few good people, their silence evinces their inability to act or even become passionate about the destruction of their heaven, unfortunately, not the type we will need for the new evolution. Ready for some really interesting weather anyone?

Merkwurdigliebe,

As usual you spew complete nonsense. You write that the Dems were just as bad as the Bush administration and I made you look like a fool by pointing out that Bush-not the Democrats- broke the law by ordering warrentless wiretapping. Instead of responding to that point you engaged in exactly the hyperbole and distortion you’re accusing me of.

Now you write that I think Democrats are “blameless” which shows just how bad your reading comprehension really is. I would not have written that the Democrats were part of a “gangrenous and corrupt government” if I held them blameless, idiot. The entire point is that they deserve blame for not allowing the lawsuits against the telecoms to move forward. What they don’t deserve is blame for violating the 4th amendment in the first place, which the Bush administration did. Violating the 4th amendment is infinitely worse than immunizing 3rd party companies from justice for aiding the criminals that violated the 4th amendment. You won’t respond to this because your only reason for being is to regurgitate Republican propaganda: “since the republicans are so hated by the public right now, it can only be positive for the republican party if the Democrats seem just as bad.”

Furthermore, you accuse the Democrats of “collusion” and being an “accessory to a crime” with no evidence whatsoever. If Steny Hoyer was really worried about being prosecuted for being an accessory to the Bush administration’s wireless eavesdropping, then why last March did he-along with a lot of other Democrats- speak out IN FAVOR of suing the telecoms and subjecting them and the administration to a discovery process that would have implicated himself? The answer is that he was NOT an accessory to Bush’s criminal behavior. He simply received a LOT of money from the telecoms to immunize them from costly lawsuits. (Hoyer has already received $19,500 from Comc*st for the 2008 cycle, 2nd most of any corporate donor, AT*T was his 6th largest donor last cycle with $12,000 and the 8th largest in his career, giving $87,250).

Only congressional leaders of both parties were briefed about the program and they were not told everything. In fact, according to the NYTimes article breaking the surveillance story: “One government official involved in the operation said he privately complained to a Congressional official about his doubts about the program’s legality. But nothing came of his inquiry. “People just looked the other way because they didn’t want to know what was going on,” he said.”

“People…didn’t want to know what was going on” precisely because they didn’t want to be charged with “collusion” or being an “accessory” to the administration’s lawbreaking. For one of these officials to be actually charged with being an accessory to a crime would require a level of proof that these officials obviously took great care to ensure didn’t exist. While their actions are contemptible and deserving of blame, they probably aren’t criminal and they definitely are not of the same level of repugnance as Bush’s felony of spying on Americans without a warrant.

Also, some Dems, like John D. Rockefeller in 2003, DID express reservations about the legality of the evesdropping program before the NYTimes story broke, which led the administration to suspend the program and impose restrictions on it, not exactly “collusion” by any definition.

If you spent half the time reading that you spend sounding like a total idiot on economics, international relations, the nature of the media, (not to mention displaying utter bewilderment about simple separation of powers), you would understand that the telecoms almost HAD to break the law because if they didn’t, the Bush administration would have withheld lucrative government contracts from them. According to former Quest chief executive Joseph Nacchio “the government withdrew opportunities for contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars after Qwest refused to participate in an unidentified National Security Agency program that the company thought might be illegal.” That’s right moron, even the telecoms don’t deserve the type of blame the Bush administration does: Bush basically used financial coercion to compel the telecoms to break the law.

“worst of all, you’re wrong in just about anything and detract from the very nature of debate”

This is just funny. Exactly what have you EVER been right about? That you even write this distracts from the nature of this debate. That you never argued my points proves that even if I was wrong, YOU KNOW YOU AREN’T INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO CONVINCE ANYONE OF IT. You are totally worthless, Merkwurdigliebe. Why don’t you go get your head blown off in Iraq, fighting for the oil you so slavishly defend?

Jed Clampett

And who can argue with that?

Definately not the glib gliebe.