I’m announcing that I will stop killing the Coyote by year 2180

12 years to improve it? 12??

(Merkwurdigliebe)

Its going to take that long anyway, if it even happens then…who are you trying to kid, like we can just switch off greenhouse gas emissions tomorrow

case in point– Brazil. Brazil has been working on being off greenhouse gas emissions ever since the Arab Oil Embargo of 73, 35 years ago

they’ve worked steadily ever since, and are just now almost at 70 percent emission efficiency, but at the cost of miles upon miles of rain forrest in order to grow sugar cane for biofuel

the lesson? its going to be hard, hard, gruelling work, if its going to realistically happen. We’ll be lucky if we reach ANY sort of decline by 2025

(Jed Clampett)

This is just GWB’s version of Dick Cheney’s ‘go fu*k yourself’.

He’s basically telling us he doesn’t give a damn if the world is destroyed by heat. In fact, that’s what he want’s, he thinks that by asking forgiveness before death he will pass on to heaven. Perhaps he doesn’t understand that atonement is required for forgivenes or Kharma is applied.

The planet seems to have entered a runaway rebalancing protocol. Water is the main cooling system of the planet. It will now be unleashed to create stronger storms to cool the land and feed the plantlife that is imperative to reducing the effects of infrared radiation otherwise known as heat.

How long do you think this process will take? a decade? five years? Earth tends to do things quickly and forcefully when action is needed. We may not have 12 years to start taking action. We must do everything possible to mitigate the release of gasses now. Improvements in efficiency is the best way to do this in the short term. Long term, use what has already been given to us and repressed by leaders of industry that prefer profits to anything else.

Farse. Merk’s statements are also littered with fraudulent justification for the deliberate feet-dragging on the issue. It’s funny how other countries are cited. How, in any lifetime do you compare us to Brazil, Merk? Aren’t we the ‘leader of the free world’? And, aren’t we the current ‘global hegemony’? Here’s a country for you to look at: Germany. Pure solar, no emissions. So, my point is this: It IS possible to do things in a short period of time. Nobody said ‘eliminate’ greenhouse gases. It’s all about cutting them down. Solar, Wind, Water. Free resources all. Are they used on a national scale as energy? We can build a baseball stadium in one year. But, for some reason, people think it would take so much longer to build a solar plant and get that power out to people. Again, look at Germany.

At least the debate over whether or not we should recognize our impact on the climate change is over. Chalk another one up for the liberals!

The ONLY, and I repeat, ONLY reason it’s going to take longer than it should is because of the power oil has to appeal decisions with their endless supply of money/lawyers/attorneys/l obbyi sts.

Once senators stop getting bought out, we’ll be on our way to energy independence, and a new industrial revolution.

(Merkwurdigliebe)

Bush is a Rodeo Clown– Germany falls into the same category as Brazil dipsh*t…they have been working on green power decades ahead of the US, as has the rest of Europe…short time my @ss…Germany like the rest of Europe forsaw the swith to a green economy as far back as the mid 70s

I merely used Brazil as an example (after all, lowering emissions is eventually going to lead to eliminating them, right? kinda how limiting yourself to one pack a day is the first step to quitting cigarettes?) of what the US should have started doing years ago…the US was left behind by Europe decades ago in terms of green technology

so smart@ss, illuminate me…if we eliminate all lobbyists and evil oil company resistance, what’s your time frame and plan to switch everything over? How much of a cut should be taken? Do you have some sort of a benchmark set? Are you willing to have the government finance the cost of the switch over?

i’m not particularly arguing with you, but dont for a minute fool yourself that cutting emissions and heading to a new industrial revolution is going to be cheap and easy, or anything less than a long and arduous struggle…ideally i would agree with you that without all that ressistance stuff would happen, but this is the real world and its not going anywhere, for the time being

cheap and easy is how you bake a cake, or order by mail…and often cheap and easy arenty synonymous with right…something no politician has yet to come out and say…the truth hurts

I used to be a rodeo clown but I sold out and went corporate. It takes practice but I think I’ve got it down. We have an old saying “get ‘er done.”

Merk,

You’re not REALLY a libertarian, are you? You’re a pragmatic liberal. Good for you.

The Firesign Theater group said it best, “You can’t get there from here.” To wit, THIS country isn’t going to do anything about emissions until the wolves are at the door. In this, Georgie Porgie is merely reflecting the dominate ‘philosophy of the land.’ This country has always been that way. Only when a situation becomes calamitous will something be done.

Unspoken in the asides about GP is the suggestion that leadership could make a difference. Could BHC make a difference? A substantive difference in the context suggested by Clown? Not likely. That would be political suicide. And even if he did, the next election would see the return of someone promising to ‘undo’ all the pain and anguish caused by BHC.

And pain and anguish await just around the next bend. Either Ma Nature is going to start showing her bitch side, or someone is going to have to address the whole issue of the internal combustion engine. Any tampering with THAT ‘institution’ will result in a ‘d’pression which will make the ‘D’pression look like child’s’ play.

It IS going to take leadership and BHC has that. But it’s also going to take sacrifice and the last fifty years has revealed a decided reluctance upon the part of this country to give up anything. At the very least, this country will have to cede its imperial role (hard to imagine) and withdraw into a cocoon until the metamorphous is complete.

Since Ma Nature ‘works’ in cycles, we could see a tranquil period for a while, deluding the populace and our ‘leaders’ into a sense of complacency, much like we saw in the 80s and 90s. But like the disturbing Fram oil filter commercial, “You can pay me now or you can pay me later.”

IJed Clampett)

“i’m not particularly arguing with you, but…”

isn’t it interesting how these things expose themselves without even trying. He says this after calling you all kinds of names because you nailed him.
Even though we have the economic power, we apparently don’t have the monetary, political or entrepeneurial will to resolve the issues that afflict us.
Apparently ‘old money’ is too entrenched in the old ways of fleecing the populace that they cannot change. The gliebe is a mouthpiece for the oil industry, so you will never get a realistic opinion on the matter, and he finds the tactics used by the industry to subvert democracy perfectly acceptable.

Merk: Did you just call me a dip$hit?
Sweet bro. Nice work, you pretentious puke. I expose your theories as being a bit flawed, and you fly off the handle and call me a dip$hit. Again, nice work.

This is for you:
It would take about a month and 30 thousand dollars for a gas station to install a hydrogen tank. Yes, the government could subsidize the effort. So, to answer your question, we could get off gas in the auto industry in about 5 years. Or, it would take about 3 years to retrofit all the power plants with wind and solar power, and the government could subsidize this, also. Why do that? To get ready for the electric car. It would take about 2 weeks for gas stations to install ‘charging stations’. Or, we could mandate the installation of solar panels on all new homes, businesses and government buildings. We could also mandate that all government officials drive emission-friendly vehicles.
The reason people think it will take so long to achieve energy independence is because of people like you and their fraudulent views. So, the next time you open your big, fat, pompous mouth, understand that America is a superpower unlike Brazil or Germany and when we put our minds to it, we can and should get things done a lot quicker than other nations. So, please do us all a favor and quit fishing for justifications of your own flawed theories. Using other nations is especially odd since you don’t think any other nation compares to us.

(Merkwurdigliebe)

Dirty Dennis– I do happen to lean libertarian, but you cant always follow dogma in every real world situation…but really, what is a libertarian other than a pragmatic liberal (after all, they grow out of the same tradition)

Jed– mouthpiece for the oil industry? please explain, all i’ve said is that it is going to be a long hard struggle to reduce emissions in a meaningful way, for a variety of reasons…the economic ramifications of a switch over would take years and enormous capital (not saying it isnt possible, but i dont know how well the american people are going to sit with the exhorbitant prices this switch would bring)

also a problem Jed is the rapidly industrializing “2nd” and “3rd” world countries. We’re no longer the number one polluter/emission releaser on the planet– China is, and China is not going to sacrifice economic/industrial productivity in order to curb emissions

India is another example, but unlike China, it simply neither has the capital nor the infrastructure to carry out such a switch-over…and these cases repeat themselves throughout the industrializing periphery– states that are either unwilling or unable to do anything about emissions controls.

so realistically, when the middle class of China, 400 million strong, decides they want to trade in bicycles for cars, well the US lowering its emissions is going to do squat

i wish i could sugarcoat this, but anyway you realistically look at it, its going to be tough. period, and i havent seen any politician, Obama included, say this…and eventually they’re going to have to

Another good one Merk. Now, your excuse is the fact that ‘other’ industrialized nations aren’t going to make an effort so why should we??

Guess we’re not the global hegemony you claim us to be huh?

Aren’t we supposed to set the example as leader of the free world and the world’s only true superpower? Guess not huh?

By Merk’s rationale, why fight terrorism? Nobody else is…..Why have civil rights? Nobody else does……why not use lead paint? China does…..

(Merkwurdigliebe)

Clown– and where is this money supposed to come from? higher taxes? do you really think that the public is going to sit with the higher taxes, espescially with a not in my back yard attitude? the money just isnt going to come from nowhere…even in your own argument you’re hinting at thow this would be a massive scale project…where is the manpower going to come from this? you say that you could outfit a gas station in a month, for 30 thousand dollars– there are several hundred thousand gas stations in this country, are they all going to be outfitted at once? Even at this stage you’re talking about billions (you also have to pay those who make the emissions reducing machinery, pay the guys who transport it, pay the guys who control the zoning issues and make sure the EPA codes are up to snuff, pay taxes on bringing the stuff into different states, insurance on the new machinery, the cost of ridding all existing tanks of oil, etc)…will mandating solar panels work in Seattle, where they get little sunlight? or Alaska, where they dont see the sun for months? When you talk about mandate that all government vehicles be emission friendly, do you mean all vehicles produced from that point on, or do you plan to retrofit all existing vehicles? Does this only include Federal vehicles, or also state govt vehicles? Military vehicles as well?

you’re talking a massive shift in the economy, from every basic level…you remind me of those who thought going into Iraq would be a cakewalk

so yes i will agree with you: in a perfect world of unicorns and rainbows, with no Iraq War (which isnt going anywhere), no fiscal crises, no pork barrel projects, yes your idea would be feasible in the time frame you presented…realistically (key word here “bro”), its not going to happen that quickly

and just because we’re a superpower doesnt mean we have the WILL to do everything, simply the power…power and goals are not always synonymous…a project along the lines you’re talking would feasibly take at least 15-20 years, not 5

but again, your argument fails to take into account the 3rd world, which in the next two decades will be the world’s leading polluter states, so until you elucidate me on your plan for them, i’ll still be waiting with baited breath…are you going to force China to curb emissions when they tell us to shove it over emissions?

its not being pompous, its being realistic and not letting idealism separate and fool you to what the realities of life are

that is a really really bad plan. we could be dead by then

(Jed Clampett)

How about from the illicit gains made by the oil industry and oilfield/battlefield services industry that hijacked our government and sent us into this imbecilic war? They sure have been making a bigger profit than our government. Shouldn’t government business be used to offset the tax burden, or would that inconveninece too many of the ‘leaders of industry’?

China and India’s people are innovating and implementing solutions everyday(solar water heaters, evaporative cooling, etc), even if their government isn’t enforcing pollution laws on big polluters like power plants and industries.

The root of the problem is blind greed. The chinese aren’t worried about the prosperity of their people, their treatment of the people of Tibet proves that, they are only worried about their upper class and political elites that are making money hand over foot by helping their friends with sweatshops.
If we develop a viable electric car and miniature power plants to provide their source of energy, then the poor trading in their bycicles for cars or viable public transport systems shouldn’t cause that much of an issue, question is will we innovate and enjoy the spoils and pride of restoring earth to health, or allow some other nation like germany to lead.
You see, the ‘entrepeneurs’ want us to be dependent on them for everything, eventually they hope to even s_ell us the air we breathe. Today, if Kroger doesn’t bring us our food, we starve to death… we’ve forgotten how to be self sufficient, ceding our independance to wealthy monopolizers that would steal your blood and s_ell it back to you if they could.
The main problem in this ‘energy crisis’ is that all solutions trying to be developed work on the paradigm of huge power plants feeding a transmission network that ultimately feeds your home after passing through many middlemen that take their cuts. Electricity is generated for a few pennies a kilowat, but when it gets to your home, you pay several dollars per kilowatt. Reversing the paradigm by making laws that allow people to generate their own electricity and s_ell it to the power company for double the price they would charge us, as germany does, would be achievable and the status quo would change quickly. Even the GAS recovery surcharge should be offset in this law. That way, people would remain mostly independent of the grid and would be minimaly impacted in an emergency such as storms that leave you in the dark and exposed to the climate.
Gliebe, anytime someone raises the issue of climate disruptions or renewable energy, you explode in a tirade of oil industry talking points that would make Senator Inhoffe proud, how could we see you as anything other than a industry hack?

(Murkwerdigliebe)

Jed– My argument is inherently anti-oil, but i’m trying to be realistic…we cant just get off oil in 5 years, it just isnt going to happen…but in the long term, we have to get off oil, if only for the environmental and security reasons

but a step by step, gradual plan is probably more feasible…remeber, oil companies and Inhoffe want no change

all i’m calling for is pragmatic, level headed, and measured change, not a hasty headlong rush into uncertainty or blindly rushing for unatainable, pie-in-the-sky pipe dreams

and i’m inherently concerned and worried about the 3rd world…China and India, a 3rd of the Worlds population, are not pursuing emissions reductions to point they need to to offset their burgeoning populations and industries

i worry, because most of the rising polluters are either unwilling (China, former Soviet Central Asian Republics, the ME) or unable (India, Mexico, Indonesia, Nigeria) to pursue a viable emissions plan…as the rising polluters of the 21st Century, something is going to have to be done about them

I don’t believe Mr. Merke said it couldn’t be done, only that it would be VERY expensive and VERY difficult an no one has demonstrated the stomach for addressing the problem.

The politicians would seem to be a tad more realistic than you. If they were to implement plans to force folks to park their gas guzzling V/8s in lieu of alternate forms of transportation, they’d be out of office in the next election. And the V/8s would still be chugging along. The Teamsters and oil industry lobbyists would just put up a new candidate.

Look what happened to Jimmy Carter when he suggested that this country needed to sacrifice.

This country has luxuriated in Fortress America for over 200 years and as a result has developed a complacency bordering on lunacy. You can measure it by the irrational responses to Pearl Harbor and 9/11, events that pale in comparison to those that have occurred in other countries over the years, and are still happening today.

It is the fault of thee an me and to blame anyone else is disingenuous.

Merkoil: To answer your question about how we would pay for this transformation, or new industrial revolution:

HOW ABOUT THE 500 BILLION WE’VE ALREADY SPENT IN IRAQ?

God forbid using taxes for getting energy independent and, at the same time, more safe and secure from rogue regimes. It’s okay to spend our taxes bombing somebody, but it’s not okay to spend it here at home?

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

Anyone who advocates spending our tax dollars abroad over spending that money at home should be tried for treason.

If you support the war in Iraq you are not an American. It is as simple as that. You should be denied the vote since you are obviously not intelligent enough to be regarded as human.

(Merkwurdigliebe)

The 500 billion we’ve spent on Iraq is no consequence…unless you have a time machine, the point is moot compared to your argument

you’re not contradicting everything or anything i said, i merely disagree with you on the ridiculously short time period you allow/preport.

and americans are perfectly fine to use taxes to bomb others because they have no stake in it…higher taxes on the home front would result in objection to them, as with any other tax increase

(Jed Clampett)

And that is the equivalent of Cheney and Bush telling us to ‘go f*ck ourselves’. What’s done is done and there ain’t sh*t you can do about it.

To the hague with them and the oil industry executives that started this senseless war!!!

Merkantile Oil Exchange: The 500 billion we’ve already spent in Iraq was a reference to the fact that if America wants to do something, money is no object. Wouldn’t I have to be an idiot of some sort to think we could use the ACTUAL money spent in Iraq? But, wait, you already think I’m a dip$hit…… Quit swimming in the shallow end of the pool for a minute.

And, although you disagree with the time frame I put forward on the switch from petroleum to some other form of fuel (hydrogen, ethanol, electricity, etc.) doesn’t take away its relative truth. 5 years is all it would take, with government subsidization and oversight, to switch to ANYTHING. Remember, the infrastructure is already in place. They’re called gas stations, and they can be retrofitted accordingly.

Tax, Borrow, whatever. It CAN get done by the most industrialized nation in the world. But, too many of our senators get way too vested in the oil industry for any meaningful legislation to get passed. THAT’S the problem. Don’t put the blame on fearing public reaction to being asked to foot the bill on energy transformation. Ask them first, THEN see how they react. If 75% of the country want to reform our energy industry, then it’s safe to say they’d be willing to pay a little for it if they had to.

Jed Clampett,

you wrote:

“(why do you think the oil industry keeps making exhorbitant profits even though their raw material has increased in price almost 6 fold since the start of the war?).”

You suggest that raising the price of crude oil by going to war is a negative for the U.S. oil industry’s bottom line. Why then, would they have taken us to war as you also suggest?

(Jed Clampett)

What I’m implying is that the oil market is a sham. They say oil is trading at 117 a barrel today, but somehow the industry is making greater profits now with their raw materials at $117 than they were when their raw material was 25 a barrel. Something there doesn’t make any sense. Unless they have fixed a price on their contracts and knew that if they started a war, those prices would be used instead of the market price. So yea, it was in their own interest to start this war, they understood that any military intervention in that area of the world wold drive prises throuh the roof and they would make lots of money from their reserves and royalty free extraction in the gulf. Thanks to an oil company executive in charge of the drafting of contracts with the oil industry, they don’t have to pay royalties for extracting oil from our oil fields, so it’s actually a virtually free raw material, sort of like the lumber industry and our forests.

Clown,

I don’t think anyone disagrees with your premise and you said it yourself, if 75% of the people want it, we’ll get it. But they don’t. That’s the whole point.

If you want to make an impact, then you have to eliminate the reciprocating engine. That means all the cars, buses, trucks, tractors, motorcycles, boats, lawnmowers, generators, pressure washers, etc. are suddenly gone. Replaced with what? Who’s going to pay for the replacements, whatever they might be?

And do you think 75% of the people are going to stand by while China et al does nothing. “Why should we suffer if they’re not going to?” will be the cry.

Not to worry. It ain’t gonna happen. This country doesn’t have the stomach for it.

Dennis: You said, “If you want to make an impact, then you have to eliminate the reciprocating engine. That means all the cars, buses, trucks, tractors, motorcycles, boats, lawnmowers, generators, pressure washers, etc. are suddenly gone. Replaced with what? Who’s going to pay for the replacements, whatever they might be?”….

Everyone USED to have a turntable. Everyone USED to have an 8-track player. Everyone USED to have a cassette deck. Everyone USED to have a VCR.

Why is it assumed that change in the petroleum industry would ‘take forever’, or people couldn’t stomach it, or ‘what do we replace them combustible engines with’?

It’s simple: Just start replacing them. Start producing other vehicles. Period.

“If you build it, they will come.” Field of Dreams.

And, one more point: Who gives a damn what everybody else is or isn’t doing in China, India, et al???? Aren’t WE, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, the leader of the free world? Aren’t we supposed to lead?

(Merwurdigliebe)

Clown– you have to give a damn because they are going to be the rising polluters in this century…and as i’ve previously stated they neither have the capital, the infrastructure, or the will to implement those changes

Assuming that the US does eliminate all emissions, (assuming that all funding was directed towards this, and nothing else), China, India, and the rest of the 3rd world will keep on polluting. That doesnt mean that we shouldn’t pursue your plan, but its not a global solution, at least in a rational sense…yeah, we’ll have clean air, but periphery and semi-periphery countries will continue to pollute…you cant just say that if only the US goes everyone will follow, because it doesnt work that way, unless we’re going to impose it by force

and the entire world economy was never built on 8 tracks and VCR’s…and they werent replaced in 5 years either…it was a gradual change over time

Unbelieveable Merk. So we shouldn’t do anything about our emissions because other countries aren’t going to do the same thing? A lot of those countries don’t have civil rights either. Maybe we should just strip those huh?

It sure seems you’ll go to any length to keep the oil flowing. Even justifying invading a sovereign nation. How vested are you??

(Jed Clampett)

They do, and once other countries see the benefits of clean air, they’ll be beating down our doors for the technology.
The chevy Volt proves you can make an electric motor based vehicle for a rather economic price with carbon composite bodies. A small highly efficient clean diesel engine can be used in the interim as the Electric power production unit, to be replaced later by more efficient or economical electricity producing methods.
If we really wanted to, and industry leaders got off their arses, we could replace the big blocks of metal with much smaller and super efficient AC motors with a similar power plant, part of it could be paid for by the recycle value of the engine block from the retrofit and perhaps some gov incentives.
It’s not about cost, industries will develop quickly and the economy will change as it realizes it makes sense, there is lots of liquidity about.
If the enviromental laws passed in the 70’s would have been adhered to instead of circumvented over and over again unless citizens themselves forced action through lawsuits, we would have a much lower healthcare bill. But apparently it’s difficult for people to make that connection. Bad air leads to bad health, sick kids and elderly and makes it difficult for other forms of life to also coexist.
To some, money is more important that anything else, others realize the gravity of the situation and are starting to make their grievances known only to be met by resistance… no, outright hostility. Painted as alarmists and cooks and derided by their agents their grievances are simply ignored by congress just as the science is also ignored. Money talks… everything else,… Well, cheney said it himself. ‘Go f*ck yourselves’

Jed Clampett,

You wrote: “Unless they have fixed a price on their contracts and knew that if they started a war, those prices would be used instead of the market price.”

I doubt each of the supermajors would have the same contract with every oil producing state. I also doubt that foreign states making the most off the increased price in raw materials would not have renegotiated their contracts with American companies since 2003, especially when other regions like China and India are competing with the U.S. in demand.

The price of oil did not go up to $117/barrel because of the Iraq war either. It began increasing in 2005 because of Hurricane Katrina and spiked with events like North Korea testing missiles and the Israeli-Lebannon war, but has gone up mostly because of demand from China and India. Wars and other events only increase oil prices for the short term.

Also, the declining value of the dollar is a big explanation for the raise in oil prices and dollar-based profits of U.S. companies: oil has risen far less in value if you price it in euros or other currencies.

As far as the war is concerned, the real financial incentive for the oil companies was not to profit off price increases that instability brings, but the return they could get by controlling the upstream production of Iraqi oil fields. That however is an investment that has taken 5 years to become profitable since Iraq only recently began exporting oil at prewar levels. A sustained increase in oil prices is actually bad for the oil industry (the other month Dick Cheney himself traveled to Saudi Arabia to convince the king to produce more oil to relieve consumers in the U.S.).

Clown– either you’re retarded, or you’re intentionally trying to bait me…either way, dude, you’re reading, but you’re not comprehending

I’m all for the US cutting and eliminating emissions. We can and should. Unfortunately, THE RISING POLLUTERS OF THIS CENTURY EITHER CANT OR WONT

the solution for emissions, REALISTICALLY, going to be a long, hard struggle, regardless of how you want to try and sugar coat it…and unless you have some way to make it go global, then whats the point of implementation?

Its like saying your going to quit smoking, yet you’re going to spend all your time with a multitude of others who are ratcheting up their smoking habit daily…so while you may have quit smoking, they’re more than going to make up for it with increased demand…even though you’re not smoking, the people you live with daily do…your room may be smoke free, but the majority of the house is going to be choked with fumes

Thats my main problem with your argument…the US is not the end all be all in terms of emissions anymore, state-to-state international hegemony excluded, so until you present a viable solution that is going to have ramifications for the WORLD, and not just the national, stage, i’ll continue to wait with baited breath for your next dissembling comment

(Merkwurdigliebe)

Clown– either you’re retarded, or you’re intentionally trying to bait me…either way, dude, you’re reading, but you’re not comprehending

I’m all for the US cutting and eliminating emissions. We can and should. Unfortunately, THE RISING POLLUTERS OF THIS CENTURY EITHER CANT OR WONT

the solution for emissions, REALISTICALLY, going to be a long, hard struggle, regardless of how you want to try and sugar coat it…and unless you have some way to make it go global, then whats the point of implementation?

Its like saying your going to quit smoking, yet you’re going to spend all your time with a multitude of others who are ratcheting up their smoking habit daily…so while you may have quit smoking, they’re more than going to make up for it with increased demand…even though you’re not smoking, the people you live with daily do…your room may be smoke free, but the majority of the house is going to be choked with fumes

Thats my main problem with your argument…the US is not the end all be all in terms of emissions anymore, state-to-state international hegemony excluded, so until you present a viable solution that is going to have ramifications for the WORLD, and not just the national, stage, i’ll continue to wait with baited breath for your next dissembling comment

(Jed Clampett)

That’s funny, When I quit smoking after seven years worth of a pack a day almost, I realized I couldn’t get off them all at once, it had to be a gradual change or the withdrawals would be intense. I also realized that being around my smoking friends would be detrimental to my endeavours, but realized that giving up my friends was harder than giving up cancer sticks. So I just avoided smoking when they offered me and sometimes left the room when they did. I found out that they were very supportive and comprehensive. With time I have been able to give up cigarretes completely. If I want, I can have one with my friends and not fall back into the addiction. In fact, some of my friends upon seeing my success actually attempted it themselves, some successfully, others with varying degrees of success.
What the Gliebe wants you to believe is that we have a dependency we cannot and will not get away from till we are dead, and that none of our friends give a sh*t about us. Regardless of how ill it makes us while enriching others, we shouldn’t try and get out from under the oppressive thumb of those that control such an apathetic industry. In his opinion, we shold give the corporations more money, so they’ll have more capacity and therefore more product to make more addicts with.
As with any addiction, we must first remove the dependency, this is a personal endeavor, something as intimate and private as your own relationship with the creator. This is done in the case of oil by improving efficiency and reducing consumption. Just as the government brought about the age of the SUV with incentives and tax breaks for the wealthy, so should it bring about tax penalties and incentives to change the current paradigm.
If the dealer doesn’t cooperate, perhaps he should be brought before justice to answer for it’s products damage and the way it manages it’s business, such an important global resource should not be in the control of a few criminal elements in our society.
If the government is willing, it can make carrots and sticks to force industry to move in the desired direction, and failure to comply can generate the needed funds to bring about meaningful change in the form of fines.
Some see a problem and offer only roadblocks, while others will look for the solution regardless of how often they are told by the moronic and defeatists that it’s impossible… that’s what made america such a great innovator, despite the imbeciles like JP Morgan and other ‘entrepreneurs’ that were in actuality more like robberbarons.

Yeah, Gliebe. I’m retarded and uncomprehensive. How about this: Go f*ck yourself.

You pretentious puke. You pompous pr*ck. Get over yourself for one single minute and actually read what you’re writing. Your excuse for NOT making a government push to get off oil is because: 1. China and India aren’t going to follow (how you know this is beyond me), and 2. Americans will get mad.

Americans are mad about Iraq, but that doesn’t faze you. China and India didn’t follow us into Iraq, but that didn’t faze you.

Do you honestly think that, as the world’s superpower, we should drag our feet because of what OTHER countries are or aren’t doing?

Now that we’re even on the name-calling, why don’t you do us all a favor and save any future smears for yourself. I can play that game just as sinisterly as anybody, and will if I have to.

Funny how hard it is to have a rational conversation with a conservative………..Liberta rian my ass!

(Jed Clampett)

He keeps falling for that old Jedi Mind trick…

these are not the droids you are looking for.

global warming is a myth.

they hate our freedom.

they dissasemble, that means they are trained to not tell the truth.

tax cuts for the wealthy will help the economy.

we need these unconstitutional powers to protect the public.

and the ever popular…

we fight them there so we won’t have to fight them there.

(Merkwurdigliebe)

Clown- alright sh*t for brains, this is getting ridiculous…are you seriously reading my points for content, or are you just seizing upon one twisted point because you have nothing else left to offer? I’m not saying we should do anything because of China and India, I’m saying something has to be done about them, for the reasons described below

i know about international relations because i make my self aware about international politics, and have spent a good part of my life studying why state and state actors do the things they do f*ckwad, something obviously you dont…but i’ll break it down real slow, and maybe, just maybe you’ll get it this time, but i’m sure this will be a wasted effort…you seem to deal with hypotheticals (if there was no opposition…), instead of how the current situation is, and is likely to continue (hint: the oppsition isnt going anywhere)

India cant follow. Outside of major urban areas, India lacks the infrastructure to implement emission reducing policies, it lacks the sufficient capital to fund said policies, and is wracked by massive corruption on a widespread scale. India’s rapid population expansion also limits its ability to efficiently control emissions–India is trying to play a game of industrial catch-up the fastest and dirtiest way possible, all with an exploding population

now for China…are you still following?(though by now, you’ll have probably stopped reading, and dissembled and obfuscated my point…oh well) China is experiencing its rapid industrialization, and reaping the benefits of it, due to a complete lack of environmental standards…they’re gutting the land of timber, groundwater, and other resources. Their productivity is fueled by coal burning plants, with more and more coming online everyday, cheaply built and made, with no scrubbing systems whatsoever…the country is consuming oil increasingly…what do you think is going to happen when China’s middle class, 400 Million strong, decide to trade in their bicycles for cars? China’s playing an evironmentally dangerous game, and and they’re profiting from it…with such success, how are you going to get a hard line authoritarian state, the antithesis of everything we are, to follow us? Perhaps if we ask nicely? Do you even have a base understanding of international politics?

and we can turn this into a pissing match about Iraq too if you want…i’m game…I have plenty to b*tch about that little fiasco too

i may be a libertarian, but i’m also a realist, and REALISTICALLY, that little word you seem to conveniently have no comprehension of, it is foolish to think that we could be emission free in 5 years for a plethora of reasons that would take a book to contain…as i said 10 to 15 is more realistic, but i dont see it happening, even though I would much rather see it come about

if you read any part of this, and this goes for Jed too, I am not anti-change or pro-oil. Those powers want no change, after all, they’re making a killing off the current situation. I am pro measured change…let prudence dictate, as realities tend to worsen with little thought out, grandiose plans lacking some sort of realistic basis…you have to find a economic and easily mass produced way to fuel the economy, and to create an environment like that in the US will take some major time

Whoa! I would like to put my 2 cents in, if I may…salmon have been swimming upstream for years. They have been defying the free-energy cascade and discordia. Let them eat cake! But please consider who speaks for hope and who speaks for sushi. Is this the way you ate my black saddle?

letsgettogethera ndfee lalright

(Jed Clampett)

“something has to be done about them….” translation: “let’s bomb them back to the stone age.”

That’s all these creatures know, and the sooner we evict them from our world the better. Perhaps then our brothers and sisters that have allowed them to take possession of them can return to being human again and recognize that which is staring them in the face.

Can you recognize the level of escalation of hatred within it? It has allowed the emotion to consume it’s senses. Probably not much left to the human in that particular creature, mostly symbiot now.
In his crazed mind he thinks that by repeating the same stupid statements in a more vulgar manner he will convince you to accept global suicide in order to spite the chinese and indians who don’t want to comply to his dictates.

He even fails to see that his country did the very things he faults those other nations for doing. He would have them stop their progress and conform to his standards now that his resources and forests and everything else is gone. As any other human beholden to his companion, he is selfish and egotistical, as separate from source as possible and still be a living being.
He even fails to realize that continuing on a path of carelessness and apathy will result in nature implementing it’s own climate protetion strategy, when she has everything in place a week will be all she needs to change all the current paradigms. Just look at what a few seconds of shaking did in indonesia.

Whoa Jed, you’re WAY over the line. You put words into Merke’s mouth and then lynch him for it. Knock it off!!

All he ever said, and I agree with him, is that it’s going to take YEARS to implement anything that will result in meaningful emissions reduction, if at all. And why is that? Because as this country reduces emissions (given the hypothetical that it can NOT that it’s possible, nobody argues the possibility, just the reality) ‘emerging’ countries will be escalating their emissions.

You translate his comment, ‘doing something about’ that factor, into bombing them back to the stone ages? YOU’RE the only one talking about bombing other countries. YOU’RE the only one who’s hostile and angry. Merke’s only being pragmatic. At the turn of the Century, this country had over 210 million cars, buses, trucks and motorcycles. Just how fast do you think you can replace them? And do you think you can pull a 16 wheeler with a hybrid engine? Get real.

You make good points about how to do it, but your histrionic misrepresentation of what Merke says undercuts your valid points. Stick to the science.

Clown,

I’ll tell you who ‘gives a damn’ what everyone else is or isn’t doing, all those MILLIONS of Americans making less than $30K a year who you tell can no longer drive their old clunker and they now have to shell out a year’s income for an electric car, that won’t go more than 100 miles, and costs a fortune to insure, and the license is several hundred dollars a year and STILL the emissions go up. THAT’s who gives a damned. Perhaps you should start giving a damn about them.

Merk and Dennis, since when did anybody say ‘eliminate’ emissions. All I’ve EVER been saying is a conversion in auto/heating industry fuels. THAT’S IT!, but somehow you’ve villified me into some sort of extreme ‘eliminate all emissions’ kind of guy.

Simply put:
1. A change is possible in less time than you think. The infrstructure is already in place in the form of gas stations.
2. China and India WILL follow suit if they’re interested in continuing to grow. If we stop doing business with them after our new industrial revolution, they’ll follow us.
3. Dennis, since when did I EVER say the SUV police would come around and take cars away from people? That might be the quickest jump to an extreme conclusion I’ve ever heard in my life. RETROFIT GAS STATIONS ACCORDINGLY AND OFFER OTHER TECHNOLOGY. Stupid phucking politics aside, it’s THAT EASY.

And, Merk: Good one with the ’sh*t for brains’. I thought we were even. Guess not….

Dennis, if you feel like backreading some statements, I think you’ll find that I NEVER mentioned emissions as the problem. Emissions controls and the concern over emissions is just a distraction to the main problem. That problem: OIL’S CONTROL OVER OUR FOREIGN POLICY.

I could give a sh*t about emissions. New fuels will take care of those. New vehicles will take care of those. We need to get away from oil for one reason, and that is to keep us from starting wars over it ever again.

And, as far as your middle-class apocalypse predicted if we even TRY to rid ourselves of oil is a bit assumed isn’t it? Aren’t gas prices already doing that to the middle class?

See your 4/17 6:12 p.m. post. Sure sounds like emissions there.

So, you’re going to pigeonhole me into some sort of emission extremist because of this: “Nobody said ‘eliminate’ greenhouse gases. It’s all about cutting them down.” ??????

Nice try. What you and Merk don’t realize is that you’re feeding the beast with your justification of the U.S. dragging its feet because of what ‘other’ countries are or aren’t doing. Another issue that allows feet dragging is perpetrating the fear of an economy meltdown. Isn’t our economy melting down right now?

IT’S NOT AN EMISSIONS THING PEOPLE. That’s what is going to allow oil to continue to dominate. Appeal, after appeal…….

Let’s see if I have this right. In the Clown Rules, you can say anything you want and we can’t comment upon it else we’re guilty of pigeon-holing you. Sorry didn’t realize that.

Oh, a corollary to that Rule must be that if anyone disagrees with your ‘assessnebt;, they’re guilty of ‘dragging their feet.’

Wow, Merke and I are the reason this country hasn’t faced the responsibility of being an ‘adult’ in the 21st Century. It’s probably also our fault that we’re mired in Iraq and the economy is tanking and there’s no universal health plan. Shame on you Merk, I’ve been doing my part voting Demo the last 30 years.

Gentlemen, gentlemen. I implore you……

It sounds as if Clown is saying government needs to get more involved in offering more options in the auto industry. It sounds to me like Dennis and Merk are saying “What’s the point?” if nobody else is going to follow.

Sounds to me, like a vicious cycle…..

I do agree that the emissions argument is just a typical Bush administration distraction to the real issue of why there aren’t any other options in the auto industry.

I do however agree with Clown that America is dragging its feet, and it could have to do with the general consensus that “If they’re not going to do it, why shoud we.” And…”Our economy would suffer.”

The economy IS suffering. And, countries WOULD follow accordingly.

Dennis: I can’t believe you accused Clown of being the auto gestapo. Did you really accuse him of trying to take vehicles from people?

Coach,

No, I said if you want to do something about emissions, you have to address the reciprocating engine. You can put in all the solar generators, thermal generators, surf generators and wind generators you want, but unless to remove the reciprocating engine from the mix, there won’t be any emissions reduction.

And neither I nor Merk, I think, believe Gov’t shouldn’t get involved, quite the contrary. Speaking for myself, I don’t believe they WILL and even if they do, it’s going to take decades.

Does that mean don’t start? Hardly. I’d like to see the gov’t get tough with polluters, but until we get some balls in D.C., it’s not going to happen.

(Jed Clampett)

In the last few days we’ve learned that our military has been used against us in a disinformation campaign of psyops on the american homeland. We’ve learned that despite their assurances to the contrary, the administration has allowed the country’s defenses to languish. A few months back we learned that the secretary of the national science foundation was an oil industry attorney that took literary license with scientific assessments that shape public policy. We’ve also learned how this president has done all he can to provide exeptions to the largest polluters from environmental protection laws in what is very likely a quid pro quo for campaign donations. We’ve learned that our news media was being used as a propaganda machine basically by anyone with enough money to make it profitable to ignore the obvious fallacies. Yet you choose to accept that they tell you that it’s too expensive, too damaging, too complicated and that our efforts won’t matter much because others WON’T follow because that is what you would do. Man, even God didn’t impose restrictions on us because he understood the diversity and plurality of ideas and points of view that humanity could engender, yet in your eyes these subAmerican creatures won’t comply to our norms regardless of the evidence or emerging technologies. In your self supremacy and disdain for others, you consider them too stupid to even come out with their own solutions, even though a man in the philippines has been running his vehicle and has converted others to run on hydrogen extracted from water as he drives. Had you bothered to follow the link I provided and read the story on HHO you would realize that it’s not as difficult or expensive as those who have been making insane profits from the blood of the earth would have you believe.
In the late 1800’s the scientist Nikola Tesla was working on electrical transmition over the natural media, air, after having perfected his electricity generation system. This man was doing remote controled robotics before the turn of the century, including techniques to differentiate specific transmissions superimposed on the same carrier wave we know today as multiplexing. Yet his ideas, designs and theories have been utterly discarded and painted as absurd by those who blindly follow the trail put before them without recognizing the true path was diverged from long ago. He gave the world AC and would have done more if not prevented by the wealthy and powerful of the day that saw in his inventions a threat to their expected profits from supplying armies during war.

It is not that expensive or that difficult to effect change, particularly when you are a government the size of the US and you have the type of influence in the world that we do. Government incentives and disincentives have a wonderful way of creating the desired conditions for rapid change.
While I understand DD’s concerns, he’s on the lower steps of that ladder and if the water gets much higher he’ll have to give up necessities more important than cable… like meds. He thinks the public should be the target of government incentives and disincentives, what good would that do? Are you so used to being taxed and fined to death by your government and never seeing any results from those fines and taxes that you flatly reject them without understanding them? What good would it be to fine those that barely have any money? The incentives and disincentives are for industry. All that pent up money they have been hoarding for the last decade needs to be moved and put to work. All the loopholes that allow these a$$holes to move their money out of the country to avoid taxes must be closed. Companies that are registered american but most of their business and manufacturing is done overseas should have to pay tariffs.
The populace have paid enough, we must stop acting like sheep and accepting everything our business leaders and their political allies shove down our throats.
But you know, it seems you have been taken out of the fight anyway. Just lay down and wait patiently for darkness to slowly envelop you. Ever seen ‘what dreams may come’? You are like christie’s wife after she step to the other side. You don’t recognize the dilapidated house all around you or the cause of the dilapidation, what’s worse, you’ve been lead to believe you can do nothing to change your situation. Some of us have been successfully separated from spirit. Fortunately, you must merely look for it and try to reestablish the link. She doesn’t care how long you’ve been gone, as long as you make a true return.

Hopefully Sen Obama can effect some meaningful changes… if he’s not led into the egg room too soon.

Good Point Jed!

Confusing theory: While everyone will readily admit that politicians are full of sh*t, they’ll readily believe the propoganda about how long it would take to make a meaningful impact in the energy industry.

Who’s making the most money during this oil surge? Who’s telling you how long it would take and how difficult it would be? They’re the same people……….

Some relevant economists say it would only take an extra 20 bucks a year, for five years, from every American to convert to a plethera of new fuels (hydrogen, solar, wind, ethanol, bio, etc…) in about 4-6 years. Yes, the automakers would have to be completely involved, but isn’t that why we subsidize them at an enormous rate???

It’s all a matter of who you believe……and oil is the last people I’ll believe.

Jed,

You have a vivid imagination that credits you with the ability to read others’ minds. If so, you can imagine now, what I’m thinking of you.

That said, YOU haven’t come up with a meaningful proposal save ‘hope’ that Obama will do ’something.’ That’s why we’re screwed. With your vivid imagination and telekenetic (?) powers, you should be able to solve the problem.

If the auto manufacturers are saying it’s too hard, it’s merely a coincidence that I happen to say it so don’t attribute everything that comes out of my fingers to having been placed there by others.

All I’ve ever said, and you seem to say the same thing, is that no one in D.C. has the balls to do anything about the problem. If you say it, you’re some sort of Pied Piper of salvation; if I say it, I’m a pawn of the auto industry.

Read My Mind!!

(Jed Clampett)

What you’ve been thinking of me, since I insulted you by using a word that has alot of history for you, is what prevents me from engaging you directly most of the time. Doing so tends to prevent me from joining on your stupid escalations without any control.
You don’t want me to start divulging what I actually read in there do you? Up to now I’m merely escalating you guy’s tensions, I can’t help testing how easy it is to manipulate your emotions… can you perceive how you have been preconditioned? can you tell what they are doing to you?

If you had actually listened instead of read while at the same time believing the BS you have been told that we are destined to be enslaved by petroleum as a fuel, you would have noticed that using hydrogen and oxygen in the combustion cycle would reduce emmissions and improve efficiency. This is a technology that could be retrofited to just about any vehicle for a couple of hundred dollars. A gov incentive for the ones with low income could help pay for it, those with SUV’s like myself can pay for their own. After the first year, those with the most consuming vehicles that haven’t retrofitted could be fined or forced to install one.
It’s absurd to think that 30% efficiency is acceptable for any fuel, much less one as dangerous and damaging as gasoline. Tesla created an engine that he claimed would work at 95% efficiency, when they tested it at GM they only got 75% so decided to drop it. ??? makes no sense to me. But the bladeless disk boundry engine is another example of those technologies that have been invented and proven, only to be buried by those with an alterior motive.

Look guys, I realize tensions get high on this sort of topic. We are sentient beings and even if we don’t consciously admit it, our subconscious realizes that the situation is dire. That is reflected in the verbage we use and the tone we take towards each other. The gravity of the situation demands that we suspend disbelief and ignore disinformation and act to do the things that must be done now. Government can help by providing tax incentives to those that do things that help, a solar water heater back up system for example, and can raise the burden on those that refuse to change. Make it expensive enough for them to remain in the same wasteful paradigm. I wouldn’t hold my breath though, gov is famous for snatching mediocrety from the jaws of excellence.

Anger shuts of the logic portion of the brain and allows emotion to rule. That is what the oil industy folks want. However we need logic to resolve this thing. We can’t wait for government to help, it’s obvious they are too invested to work for our benefit. They have been compromised and instead of an assistance they will become a hinderance. That’s OK, the people have dragged the government kicking and screaming into compliance before. All that is required is to break out of the laziness and apathy.

Did you guys happen to watch PBS primetime tonight? Nova had new technologies for cars and Frontline had an exposé on the repeated refusal of our administrations to pay heed to scientists warnings about climate change.
Talk about apropós.

Wow, this was an unbelieveable statement from DirtyDenis:
“I’ll tell you who ‘gives a damn’ what everyone else is or isn’t doing, all those MILLIONS of Americans making less than $30K a year who you tell can no longer drive their old clunker and they now have to shell out a year’s income for an electric car, that won’t go more than 100 miles, and costs a fortune to insure, and the license is several hundred dollars a year and STILL the emissions go up. THAT’s who gives a damned. Perhaps you should start giving a damn about them.”

Since when, in this argument, was it determined that it would be unlawful for people to drive their clunker? Electric cars only go 100 miles? Maybe on a duracell. Try 350 friend.
It’s about offering other forms of transportation. When cd’s came out, the cassette tape gestapo didn’t come around and gather up all the cassettes………..

H ydrog en, electric, better mpg, anything but the status quo will go a long way toward lowering the emissions. AND go a long way toward freeing us of the evils of powerhungry oil companies and their foreign policy disasters.

Bender,

It’s my contention that you can’t reverse emissions (reduction is pointless) without elinminating the reciprocating engine. I’ve said that I’m all for ANYTHING that will improve the situation, but ‘improvement’ isn’t going to change the dynamics.

(Jed Clampett)

that’s right bender, unless you can turn the titanic on a dime, it’s not worth doing.
Reducing emissions and increasing efficiency are pointless, they won’t help anything and trying it is useless.
Planting trees would be a great way of reducing temperatures and trapping CO2, but since fungi are killing trees and they are releasing the co2 they trapped when they were alive, that is useless as well.
Seems to me, any particular response you give will be met with derision and disbelief.

Reminds me of a story I heard recently on NPR. They talked about a radio station in NY doing a re-broadcast of ‘war of the worlds’. Even though they announced way ahead of time they would be doing the radio show, and mentioned it during the broadcast, people still freaked out, even to the point of gathering outside the station and setting it on fire. What do you think makes people react in this way? Why would they be preconditioned in such a way as to fight the notion of Extraterrestial among us as to attack a radio station putting on a play? They are expected to react this way, it fit’s their role. If and when the Extraterrestials make themselves known in such a way it cannot be ignored and refuted, These will be the ones that produce chaos and disruptions in such a way to make life untennable. People of this ilk will act against anything that tries to advance humanity and will use the tactics that have been well established, sow doubts among the population, divide the population by emphasising differences on an emotional level, deride the project as too expensive, disruptive, minimal in it’s effects. If all else fails, set them fighting against each other.

Unfortunately, our brothers and sisters don’t do this on purpose, they are merely responding to their preconditioning, almost out of instinct they work against their homeworld and don’t even realize they are doing it. Perhaps those who have understanding will awaken and start working to protect us, now’s the time.

Dennis: Reduction is pointless? What is your infatuation with the combustible engine? It sounds like YOU are the one who wants to take everyone’s clunker away from them, not Clown. Your solution to the power of oil and the emissions it creates is to get rid of the combustible engine. Clown’s contention is to add more options to the public.

Well, I guess to some people, and it seems Jed agrees, that unless you can do it overnight, why bother? And, unless other countries are going to go along, why bother?

Is that how things work? Civil rights didn’t happen overnight, it took YEARS. But, yet, we’re better off for it.

The infrastructure is already in place for a transformation in the personal transportation industry. Now, all we need is affordable vehicles and government subsidization to install charging stations and hydrogen tanks at all current gas stations.

Now, Dennis and Merk, refute it, I can’t wait……

(Jed Clampett)

BTW – seems some folks have had some success converting the ICE(internal combustion engine) into an implosion engine. Look up the Joe Cell and the successes people have had… you’ll also notice how those folks have been rewarded for their ingenuity. Seems to me that this is in keeping with the theories put forth by Viktor Schauberger.

But of course to some people it will be easier to just deride and ridicule without bothering to inform themselves, that’s fine too, we understand where you are coming from.

This wouldn’t be the joe cell with the magical orgone gas that passes right through the metal of the carburator, would it?

Since you can read my mind and ‘know where I’m coming from,’ I guess I don’t have to say any more.

(Jed Clampett)

Well, I can see you are a joyful consumer and regurgitator of disinformation. Congratulations, you’ve confirmed my suspicions.

Enjoy your new home.

Let’s see if I’ve got this right: If YOU say anything, it’s come from the Mount; if anyone else makes a comment, they’re pawns of some greater evil and subject to derision.

Read My Mind!!

PS Since we know how flawed your mind reading has been lately, I’ll point out I got my info from the Joe Cell website and the PES website. Wikipedia had nothing to say about it and it was generally agreed that ‘mainstream’ science, whatever that might be, do NOT agree with the implosion theory.

Now, it may all work out just like cold fusion may work out, but if you’re hinging the fate of mankind on the joe cell, then I rest my case about all the other blather you put forth on this blog.

You should research paranoid delusion. It CAN be treated.

(Jed Clampett)

Didn’t realize I was trying to read anyone’s mind. But if you feel identified, so be it.

When I was a kid, dad taught me to question everything, including himself. I guess it was the journalist in him. While it may seem somewhat paranoid to you, it has served me well. It made me realize that the police academy was not a place where good people go to help, but rather a place for gangbangers to enjoy isolation from law enforcement, I couldn’t continue in that career, but it gave me some valuable insight.
It also helped me realize that when my experiments gave unexpected results in my engineering classes, professors just said ignore it and go on, it happens.Trying to find the actual cause of the anomalies forced me to understand that there were parts missing from what we were being taught.
Now some people, more than likely yourself, are content in accepting an anomaly and just ignoring it. Thankfuly, there are those in this world who understand that an anomaly has a cause that must be understood to understand the system fully. Nikola Tesla was one of these, Viktor Schauberger another and Walter Russel and Keely were others. Every one of those scientist have been ridiculed by history, yet their theories and inventions are being implemented and receiving a second look. The fact that I went through 2 electronics degree programs and never heard the name of the father of AC power seemed very strange… even more so when I started reading about his achievements, it was obvious there was a smear campaign and suppression. Anything of that sort deserves a second and third look in my opinion. But others just accept the status quo and march dutifuly to the cannon’s breech.
You ridicule the Joe Cell because, like most of the guys implementing it, you don’t understand the natural principle that makes it possible.
What the Joe Cell is is a capacitor that creates a standing wave within it. This standig wave creates excess energy within the water molecule that gives it the necessary ambient to split the water atom. creating hydrogen, oxygen and other chemicals present in the water that serve as catalysts. Some folks have some good results by burning this gas as combustion. Others have had better success by using implosion. The right mix of hydrogen to oxygen, with an electric spark delivered at the appropiate time will cause them to recombine, when two masses become one a vacuum is produced that has many times more power than what is released or expected. This is implosion, it has been proven to expose more energy than the opposite which is what is in use today. This is cold fusion at it’s most basic level, but like you say, ‘mainstream’ science is incapable of accepting it because it is too simple. You see, engineers like complicated things, it makes them feel more important, unfortunately, it blinds them to the simplicity of nature.
As you say…”it was generally agreed that ‘mainstream’ science, whatever that might be, do NOT agree with the implosion theory.”
Just like AC current was not accepted by ‘mainstream’ science at it’s inception. In fact, Edison put up such a dedicated PR campaign against it that he was electrocuting elephants to prove it’s dangers. We can thank Mr. Edison for the electric chair and copying and stealing other people’s ideas. A philosophy that his legacy, the GE company, seems to still espouse. Protect the investment in any way possible, regardless of how detrimental your product is and how beneficial the competing products may be.

You’ve had it proven time and again that our current paradigms are flawed and harmful to us. We have evidence of government and science deceiving us almost on a daily basis. We have proof of the deception in our health and how it seems that nothing is ever cured but ‘treated’ in perpetuity, you yourself are a victim of this, yet you call me delusional for questioning the status quo? wake up pal, this ain’t heaven you are in and acting with blindness is allowing it to be turned into that which we all say we wish to avoid. End your own delusion before you start accusing others of being victims of another.

Nature of the beast:

“Digital watches will never replace our old standby.”

“The Microwave oven will never replace the toaster oven.”

“The cassette will not replace my vinyl.”

“The CD will not replace my cassette.”

“MP3s are just a fad.”

“DVDs will not replace my VCR.”

“Flourescent bulbs will not replace incandescent bulbs.”

All examples of people resisting change because of propoganda leading them to believe that it’s ‘too much to overtake’………

Another moment of silence for the EV1 please…………..