She needs to get out of the race now. And her husband is not helping her either with his finger-waving and petulant whining over “attacks” from the Obama campaign.

Both Clintons are “acting out” and it’s clear to me that they need to be in therapy.

Hillary has been lying about far too many things lately. She lied about Obama’s NAFTA position, she lies about her record on SCHIP and Family Leave (taking credit for things that she didn’t work on) and now she is lying about her foreign policy experience.

Hillary has already lost this race and is becoming desperate. You can see that in her slimy attacks against Obama’s faith. It is time for her to drop out.

She doesn’t care that it’s over. If she can’t win we ALL lose. If Americans and other politicians didn’t have such short memories, I’d say she’s finished in politics. But, as DD has pointed out, that’s not how the “game” is played. We need a new game, with a new set of rules, because THIS game sucks!

(Jed Clampett)

Much like our economy, the game is designed to assist the established players with the most money. The process has been completely distorted from it’s original intent and never evolved as the size of the country and technology changed. The changes that have been made have been achieved by collusion of two parties that prefer to keep the players to only two.

The weirdest thing is, no one has picked up on the fact that the war was over 1995, the peace accord was signed in Dec. 1995 and all sides abided by it… ooops I guess she forgot to mention the was over by the time she got there too.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – “Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton’s positive rating has dropped to a new low of 37 percent in an NBC/Wall Street Journal poll released on Wednesday.”

Maybe I’m wrong, but I think this thing is gonna be over soon, maybe even before PA. I mean, come on. this is getting old.

(Jed Clampett)

Just heard Prez Clinton saying that destroying the democratic party for personal political gain is a valid strategy for personal achievement. Congratulations Bill, I used to have some semblance of respect for you till I heard that.

To all the Clinton haters…she not going away! Please don’t treat Sen. Obama as if he were a deacon…he wasn’t forthright, and misrepresented his relationship with Rezko. He lied about Rev. Wright. He has and still is consistently, mispeaks about his position on the War. It’s either YES or NO, not being at the Senate to cast your vote and voting same as Sen. Hillary 84 out 85 times in regards to the War, is not being against the War from the start b/c you gave speech, then agreeing with our Commander in Chief on how he is handling the war. Not being entirely honest about his Health Care Plan. So, to all Clinton haters, before you get on worked up about whatever the media decides to throw at you…ask yourself this..WHAT POLITICIAN DO YOU KNOW TELLS THE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH AT ALL TIMES, NO MATTER WHAT? Welcome, to the “silly season” of politics.

Democrats have two choices.

The Healer

or

The Stealer

Period!

Taylor,

Please provide some proof to back-up your diatribe. Otherwise, you just sound like Hillary.

“You’re talking a lot, but you’re not saying anything.”

-David Byrne-

(Jed Clampett)

I think HRC just pounded in the last nail in her coffin… her wealthiest supporters have sent a threatening letter to nancy pelosi to not tie the superdelegates to the results of their voters. I’m sure these guys are merely protecting their investments and dying to cash in on the favors they have done for her in the past. This being a political season and one must be careful even what their supporters do, I can’t see such well connected, wealthy individuals doing something this huge without first coordinating with the candidate.
How much more proof do you need that this is merely another copy of the same entity that owns Bush?

The Secret World of Walter (Hillary) Mitty.

Bosnia March 1996. The two women sat on the deck next to the open hatch of the custom 747. Both wore a look of anxiety as they contemplated their next move. Hillary patted Chelsea on the leg and said “remember – stay low and don’t stop running until you get to the other side of the tarmac” They stood up and took their positions on either side of the hatch, Hillary took two deep breaths and said “OK – Run — Now”. They burst through the door frame, separated, and took two distinct paths as they sprinted across the asphalt bobbing and weaving while taking in every visual detail of this hostile territory. The First Lady had landed.

It is not surprising that Hillary recently mis-spoke or more important mis-remembered her trip to Bosnia. In March of 1996 Bill Clinton was already engulfed in his oral affair with Monica Lewinsky. During the coming three years Hillary would witness the base defilement of the office of the President of the United States. Hillary witnessed one of the most flagrant personal abuses of power ever perpetrated by a leader of the Western World. She watched as her “man” ranted and raved and lied about his salacious affair. The number one news story for the next three years that would paralyze and stagnate our government would be Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky

Hillary Clinton says she would have left her church if her pastor had been as inflammatory as Pastor Wright? This feels like hypocrisy to me. When Bill Clinton, her husband and her President literally and figuratively damned this country, the office of the President of the United States and every citizen, she stood by her man. Who can blame her for having mis-speak and mis-memory.

Washington March 1998. Hillary lay face down in the mud. She could hear the shells whistle by overhead and then moments later felt the thunderous roll as the explosions rocked the ground. She knew that if she stayed still and quiet long enough that the onslaught would soon be …………………………………………………….

NEO-LIB PRINCESS HILLARY THE SERIAL CROOK, IN LOTS AND LOTS OF PAIN, IS SIMPLY QUITE INSANE. SHE NEEDS MONEY, LOTS AND LOTS OF IT, TO PAY OFF HER DEBTS AND PERSONAL BETS. BUT ALAS, HOW MANY FOOLISH ILK SHALL THIS PRECIOUS PRINCESS HILLARY BILK?

Jed,

Are we to assume only HRC supporters will ‘cash in’ on their investments?

(Jed Clampett)

Not at all, all those fkrs have some sort of stake in this, been around this earth too long to be that naive, I also understand the nature of our common enemy.
The POTUS sets the tone and as the enforcer in chief gets to force others into compliance… unless he/she is submissive to a diff source of power. Believe me, the POTUS is not the most powerful man in the world, those guys prefer to remain behind the scenes. But seeing the tone of her campaign and the desperation in her supporters and their actions within their desperation, I see the holy books unfolding before my eyes. I can recognize the difference, can’t you?

Supporters of Hillary: “Stop attacking her, she’s not doing anything anybody else isn’t doing.”

Hillary lies profusely….
Said lies are exposed as lies…..
Hillary and supporters cry foul…..

These are the days of our lives.

Supporters of Hillary are, obviously, okay with her tearing the party apart with her lies, deceit, and innuendo.

Taylor: What did Obama ‘lie’ about when it came to Rev. Wright?

ObamaNation 2008

(Jed Clampett)

HRC recently chided Sen Obama for not throwing his pastor of two decades under the bus for his couple of sound bites during a sermon, yet after her HUSBAND and president perpetrated the worst form of treason against a wife and acted in a selfish, careless manner in the seat of highest office she chose to ’stand by her man’. Why did she do this? Were they so in love that a transgression of this magnitude could be overlooked? Was Bill’s lapse in judgement while in the highest office not enough to split such a strong couple? Perhaps it was a calculated move to express loyalty to her supporters, and to keep such a powerful political ally as her husband is, as she contemplated her own race to the whitehouse.

In what way was she involved in the authorization of the s_ale to china of a camera network system with face recognition that could be used for repressive activity? Was she instrumental in the reinterpreting the law that prohibited sale of equipment that could be used for police activity to mean only batons and helmets? What were her feelings as she saw what was happening in tianenment square before the government crackdown? what were her feelings towards them afterwards? Valid questions of such an experienced political player, don’t you think?

“To all the Clinton haters…she not going away!”

We know, but why?

CNN even preempted her speech on the economy to show Bush’s assault on our intelligence. What does that tell you?

I don’t know of anyone who says HRC DIDN’T lie. The question is, did she attempt to deceive? Over a visit to Bosnia?

You can believe whatever you want but if you can believe her statements about the Bosnia trip were lies, then what about the claims Obama is lying in the stories about his father and grandfather?

DD: SHE is saying she didn’t lie. When given the chance to explain, she said she misspoke, ’showing she’s human’. Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect these people to admit they ‘lied’. But, you asked…..

Keep the fight DD……Although, this one isn’t worth fighting for. Fighting for the underdog is definitely respectable. But, since when is/was Hillary the underdog??????? According to the ’superdelegates’, she’s the front-runner.

And, how is SHE showing she can take the heat, which you so profusely claim is going to happen (and I agree) in the general? If she can’t take being corrected now, what’s it going to be like later?

Coach,

This IS pretty silly. If HRC’s ’sin’ is that her recollection of an event some years back, one of hundred, is flawed, then she’s not qualified to be Prez?

Again, I’m not defending her, per se, rather the attack, mostly by RS, but escalated by many others when I point out the lack of objectivity and potential for hypocrisy.

TD doesn’t seem to mind when I question him, but a number of others go apoplectic when I suggest, SUGGEST, that a double standard is at work. They seem unable to comprehend that a person can actually admire BOTH candidates and be comfortable with either.

Hell, you know me Coach, I’ll take whomever comes out of Denver, well, almost. It could well be Al Gore. I sure hope it’s not John Kerry. I just hate to seem members of what I would like to think is the ‘correct’ party, turn on one of their own. I thought such cannibalism was the province of the Right.

As for HRC ‘taking the heat,’ she seems to be doing just fine. She’s taking blows and returning them. I’m embarrassed about her ‘gaff’ but you certainly can’t say she’s wilting. I honestly think Obama would/will make a better President, but I think Clinton has a better chance of winning this year. It is NOT worthy of arguing about because there’s no way to prove either case.

(Jed Clampett)

Now that’s choice.

oh yea, hill baby, how ’bout this guy and his followers,
“god almighty will give the united states a pill that will puke them to death. i am prophet enough to prophesy the downfall of the government…woe to the united states…i see them greedy after death and destruction.”
-brigham young
when would you have left this crew?

DD, When this whole thing started I honestly did actually admire BOTH candidates and was comfortable with either of them as POTUS. But it wasn’t anything RS, the MSM, or anyone else, did to change that for me, it was HRC. I feel that if she had gone through this primary process and stuck to the issues, her record in the Senate, and her plans for America, she probably could have won by now. I sure know that I would feel a LOT more comfortable voting for her, IF she somehow gets the nomination, had she gone that road. But instead, she CHOSE to take the low road (Penn and Bill didn’t help). Check out a post by Mark on the next thread, he illustrates it way better, than I can. All I’m saying is that, if she wins, it creates a HUGE dilemma, for me anyway. I’ll never vote republican’t, at least not the way the party is today (had Ron Paul won, I may have vaguely pondered it). I’ve voted in EVERY election I could, so the thought of staying home is out. But I SERIOUSLY don’t know if I can vote for HRC after what I’ve seen from her and Bill. “Anyone but a CON,” I agree. But for me it’s not that black & white.

(Jed Clampett)

Well said BD, I feel the same way.

BD,

I sympathize with your dilemma. This is NOT a wonderful situation, to say the least. From my perspective, there is no win scenario. Last Fall/Winter, I forget exactly, when the ‘campaign season’ (whatever THAT is) was kicking off, TD asked for commenter questions about the coming campaign. I asked if this country was ready to elect a black or a woman. I was keenly excited about the prospects and disappointed by the low response. At that time I thought it was a win/win situation and was confident one of the two would emerge victorious. I felt then, that it was HRC’s to lose. Personally, I had no preference, I was pleased with either option.

Now we are faced with a situation where the selection of one candidate, in my opinion, who the country is not ready to elect, or another, in everyone else’s opinion, who the party is not ready to elect. That doesn’t bode well at all.

I’m a bit of a fatalist, Daddy, I think things are going to go the way they want and that mere mortals, on an individual level, have no impact on the outcome. Now, to the crux of the ‘issue.’

In Jed’s eyes, anyone who defends HRC is a defacto racist. Right off the bat, he throws mud, rather than engaging a merited discourse. Oddly/sadly, no one saw cause to call him on the assertion. Or, his claim that most whites feared Obama. We’re supposed to be the party of enlightenment, but Jed’s tactics bespeak the methods of the Right. The fact that no one spoke against him can only indicate support or, worse, ennui.

As for Mark’s litany of horrors, they’re misdemeanors, all. This is politics. It’s ugly. I’ll grant you BHO’s campaign has been light years better than HRC’s but charges brought against her are chicken feed. The irony is, if she was engaged in battle with Johnnie Boy, those on the Left now screaming bloody murder would NOT be bothered by anything she did over ten years ago or anything members of her campaign did. And how do I know that? Because of the free ride Obama and his staff have received. I should mention that I’m only talking of this blog on that latter point.

To most of this country, Obama is an unknown, and an enigma. He ran unopposed for his Senate seat and has maintained a low profile since. People who will go to the polls to choose a President in November have to do so without knowing very much about the man. Hope and Change are NOT going to cut it. Promises of programs is NOT going to cut it. He needs to have a resume that the voters can refer too, even if they don’t always agree to it. He does NOT have that resume.

It may well be that Obama can rally the youth and the previously uninvolved, that would be great. But if he IS elected, I feel the division that would be created in this country would dwarf that which everyone talks about happening to the party is he is not. I can expound on THAT possibility, but fear I’ve overused my time all ready.

As I’ve said, things are going to happen the way they’re meant to happen and I’m okay with that (as if I had a choice). What I’m NOT okay with is this black/white ‘vision’ I see by RS, TD and MANY of the commenters that Obama is good and Clinton is bad and if you don’t happen to fall into lock step with the others, you’re attacked. Well, if disagreeing with the majority’s pristine, intolerant, and decidedly hypocritical, view of this campaign is my biggest mistake in life, I’ll sleep well.

PS

Don’t you think it’s telling that the condemnation of HRC outnumbers the praise of BHO about 4 – 1? Shouldn’t we be singing songs of praise for Barack instead of disparaging one of our own?

(Jed Clampett)

Hey bud, don’t start distoring the issue. You may wish to define me in your own image, but I suggest you refrain from endorsing all those tactics you used to decry in the prop sniffer by using them yourself.
This statement is a bit misleading…

“In Jed’s eyes, anyone who defends HRC is a defacto racist.” since you are the only one who has received that treatment, and I explained to you the catalyst, then the statement which follows it is also a ‘misspeaking’ I waited alot before I decided I’d had enough of your distortions. I had given you the benefit of the doubt because we normally agree on most topics, but this one shouldn’t be ignored. No one but you called me on it because they understood inherently, mostly because they’ve understood where I come from, that the implied meaning was ‘most whites that reject obama outright’. You seem to have ignored all that in your zeal to promote HRC. As polls show, the majority of educated, middle class and obviously pretty intelligent people have no trouble voting for ‘a black man’, they are also the ones realizing that HRC is playing from the cesspool, seen the latest polls lately? While I’m not as jaided as a great number of americans by the way racial relations have been handled, or mishandled rather, in this country; I understand quite well when people try to fool themselves and others into stereotypes and inuendo. Even those that threaten murder if he’s elected.
I can guarantee you that if this is not handled correctly, it may spell the end of this selfish empire. While it may be just deserts, I prefer a more peaceful transition to righteousness.

Seems to me you are allowing the news media to manipulate your brain and has you bouncing around in all directions, much like they are currently doing. If I was you, I’d avoid those outlets that use inflamatory and divisive speech. Watch the daily show every once in a while and notice how they expose the propaganda machine for what it is. a manipulator of the populace.

You accuse me of using the tactics of the right, when i’ve only responded in kind to your BS. It seems like personal attacks to you because you are conditioned that way by the negative energy permeating our environment lately. It’s not personal, guy, it’s spiritual. We that have understanding can see past the BS being tossed at us, even if our brothers and sisters are deluded into playing the old game. You keep seeing the world throught the polluted filters of someone who’s seen so much BS that they have internalized it and spew it back out subconsciously. A malady that seems to be quite prevalent in our ‘New World’, acting subconsciously.
What sad to see is that you parrot all the incomplete, distorted sh*t being tossed around in the media. I can understand why, some of my friends do it as well. Personally, I prefer to listen to all of Sen. Obama’s speech before making a decision instead of being swayed by sound bites being repeated over and over by the media like they did with H. Dean. I realize also that a minority will not be swayed regardless of the veracity and candor of the senators words. We differ in that you have already lost hope and have become totally disillusioned with your compatriots while I still have faith that regardless of what the media will have us believe, the majority of americans are intelligent, level headed people that want to do what’s right rather than what is convenient. Sure, prosperity makes us apathetic, but just wait till you see what a little discomfort will do to get people active in their future. REmember the 60’s and 70’s? American’s understood well then how their rights were being trampled for the benefit of the MIC and speculators. They almost had to send the country into civil war to make a diff, should that happen again? Think of how the US has helped the oppressive regime of China under the guise of ‘healthy business climate’ and realize that those people will have no qualms about using the same techniques against us.
Just because you haven’t bothered to go to his site and checked his resume does not mean he doesn’t have one. But it’s very telling that you are spouting off the MSM BS.

“As I’ve said, things are going to happen the way they’re meant to happen and I’m okay with that (as if I had a choice).”

Seems like someone has lost all hope and apathy has taken over.

So, remind me again about all the great things B.O. has done in the senate so that we should care about this story being so over-blown? m

Moe: Are you inferring HRC has done so many ‘great’ things that she deserves to pad her own resume?

The bottom line here is this: How in the world can she call herself an agent of change if the only way she can get elected is to go against the will of the people. She’s losing in total votes, states, delegates even WITH the many thousands of votes cast by registered Republicans (they’re not supporting her, they’re choosing their opponent). Superdelegates are her ONLY chance. That means that a bunch of elites will OVERRIDE the OVERWHELMING majority of people supporting and voting for Obama.

If the situation were reversed, we all know Hillary would be calling for Obama to drop out. We all know that. Hell, she already is to an extent.

It’s time for Hillary to admit defeat. And blame it on nobody but herself for this horribly run campaign based on so many frauds it’s insane.

Obama could have walked in off the street and I would still be voting for him. Why? Character. Something HRC knows NOTHING about. Except, when it comes to distorting it.

y’all are such SHEEP!!!

How about conversing about the issues that will affect us for the next 4 (or more) years, instead of the insignificant crap that is in this blog.

Whether your name is Clinton or Obama, it’s true that we all embelish the past.

Get over it. It’s time to talk about something substantive.

Issues David? Issues? You don’t think it’s an issue that, of the three presidential candidates, one is a pathalogical liar and one has alzheimer’s? That sounds like an issue to me……but then again, I’m just a sheep. Baaah.
I’d rather be a sheep than a pretentious puke. Plus, it’s ‘embellishing’ that got us into Iraq in the first place. It’s embellishing that leads to the villification of illegal immigrants. It’s embellishing that leads to the fear of terrorism taking over the world.

Maybe it’s time to pay MORE attention to embellishment, huh?

David,

Welcome to Open-minded Central. Fasten your seat belt.

I SERVED MY COUNTRY FOR 3YRS US ARMY .I WANT TO KNOW HOW DO PEOPLE KNOW WHAT IT LIKE TO FLY INTO A HOSTIL SITUATION.SHE DID ,YOU DID NOT.MY HATS OFF TO ANYONE WHO EVER SERVED OUR GREAT COUNTRY.P.S. BY THE WAY IT GOD BLESS AMERICA. NOT GOD DAM AMERICA.

David,

The reason no one talks about issues is there’s no difference between Clinton and Obama on issues.

(jed Clampett)

just because you ignore it when we talk about Sen Obama’s qualities that we appreciate in him doesn’t mean we don’t post them on here.

HRC has called the criticisms on herself. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, she’s insulting our intelligence and shown herself to be just like what we have in the WH now. Like we’ve recently stated, we are more disapointed that we placed some trust in her, based on her husbands campaign and administration, which has been already trampled.
You like to disparage Sen Obama’s message of hope, yet it is pretty close to the message Mr. Clinton had, except delivered with a bit more candor and nuance. He takes us into his thought process and that is something we haven’t had before. He speaks to us as adults, and we appreciate that.

Scurrilous:: grossly or obscenely abusive: a scurrilous attack on the mayor. — characterized by or using low buffoonery; coarsely jocular or derisive: a scurrilous jest. — 1. vituperative, insulting, offensive. 2. vulgar

While I grant you that a couple of parachutists have been vulgar towards her, as they do in many boards, the same way Sen Obama is assaulted on others, normally we ignore them as we do DWM because we understand it is folly to play an imbeciles game(current discussion not whitstanding). Some of us could understand the message in those holy books even though we didnt trust or believe much in the pastor/preacher trying to twist it to his needs.

“You accuse me of distortions. Don’t say that without stating them. That’s lame. Be specific or shut up.”

“But then you say, “We differ in that you have already lost hope and have become totally disillusioned with your compatriots while I still have faith that regardless of what the media will have us believe, the majority of americans are intelligent, level headed people that want to do what’s right rather than what is convenient.” You have faith in this ‘selfish empire?’ You have faith in your deluded ‘brothers and sisters?’”

the leaders do no represent the people, they represent their own selfish interests, evinced by american foreign policy abroad and at home, where civics does not seem to be a prerequisite to elected office. Understanding of the constitution or even the laws of nature is anathema to these guys. It is their empire, not the american people’s, and when the people finally wake up and start doing what is required of a populace whithin a democracy to avoid the situations we face today, the world will be a much better place for all to live. If americans don’t want war, why do they allow their government to fund those making it? We are all deluded to some extent or another. Some evidently way more than others. Youre tension level tells me all I need to know about what part of the spectrum you fit in.

And if you think I should lead you by the hand through all your transgressions and also enumerate mine I’m afraid it would take too long and would make no difference to either one, either you realize when you behaved badly and work to correct it in the future or you continue down the slippery slope. Personally, I think by now you realize I consider I’ve been too quiet for too long, and I’m sure not going to shut the fk up because you command me to.

I find it very telling that there is so little understanding and support in america for the people of tibet, does not bode well for humanity, it tells others, and our own authorities that this is acceptable behaviour for a nation in the 21st century. Not a good sign coming from the country that likes to present the illusion of freedom and democracy. Democracy without checks, balances, oversight and some regulation can quickly turn into totalitarianism, even more so when it’s populace is kept ignorant.

Making statements like “there is no difference between Clinton and Obama on issues” tells me all I need to know about how you are educating yourself on the candidates.

I’m the only one attacking and being negative? what’s that saying about the log in your own eye?

To me it’s very simple.
The candidates speak for themselves.
“Experience” means nothing if that experience is more of the same old thing. The same old thing is exactly what many people are tired of. People talk of Obama’s lack of experience like he was born the day before he entered the Senate. And by the way, he did not run unopposed for the Senate seat. He beat habitual presidential also-ran Alan Keyes, who ran as a Republican’t, and lost by a landslide. Keyes was put in at the last minute (86 days prior) after the Rep. nominee, Jack Ryan, withdrew due to a sex scandal. But my point is, Obama did plenty before the U.S. Senate. He may have been born in the day, but it wasn’t yesterday. Experience, in my opinion, is the reason our country finds itself where it is today. Hillary demands that Obama explain every little thing, but wont release her own tax records. And what about the Clinton legal woes looming on the horizon? The California Superior court wants sworn testimony from all three Clinton’s. Does this country need ANOTHER Clinton scandal to distract us from the real issues? I would say, “let’s let this thing play out,” if HRC had any chance of legitimately winning. Obama is going to have won the most states, the most pledged delegates, and the popular vote. If the super’s go against that, it will just be wrong. And DD, Had Jed said something I didn’t agree with I would have said something. But I feel pretty much the same way that he (and an ever-increasing amount of people), does. Also, the positions that each side seem to be taking reminds me of Dem’s vs the GOP. Neither is going to sway the other side.

Picture Dirty Dennis as a stubborn mule who simply whines real loud until he’s been taught a new trick and you’ll glean all you need from this exchange.

This is what matters: Obama will be the Democratic nominee period. There is mathematically no other alternative. It is either Obama or McCain and it is time to make arguments for and against either one.

Clinton matters to the extent she will put her resources behind Obama. That will test whether or not she is really concerned with ending Republican rule and whether or not she should be considered as a vice presidential nominee.

BD,

So you agreed with Jed when he called me a racist? You agreed with him when he said most whites fear Obama? I don’t think so.

He’s changing his song now. I called him on his flip-flop on his ‘faith’ in the American people, and he says, “Oh, I was talking about the leaders.”

Do you agree I ‘parrot’ the distortions in the media when I’ve declared, over and over, that the media, RS included, is NOT focusing on the issues. He then says there’s no difference between the two on issues. I say elaborate. He won’t. When I asked him to show where I’ve uttered ‘distortions,’ but he’s too busy. I ask him to point out where he’s praised Obama, but he’s too busy.

Do you agree I’ve threatened murder if Obama’s elected? Jed would stick his head in the ground and hope for the best. Forewarned is forearmed.

But neither you nor he address the two things I’m REALLY talking about: One, that the Left would cannibalize its own. I NEVER attacked Obama and have said he would make a better President than Clinton. (Hell, I even said we should think about a place on Mr. Rushmore.) No one mentions that. All I’ve done is defend her from SCURILLOUS attacks (So Jed, you CAN read a dictionary). And I’ve been treated like a pariah. Someone said she brings it upon herself. That’s EXACTLY what the slave-owners said about the blacks. Curious. All I’ve EVER asked for was fairness.

Two, that I have the opinion Obama can’t win the general election, that this country is NOT ready for Barack Obama. No one addresses that fact either. No one addresses the Bradley effect, the closet racists and the eagerness with which the ‘intelligent people’ (Jed’s term) of this country are holding Obama accountable for his preacher’s comments. Those same ‘intelligent people’ who elected Reagan, Bush and Georgie Porgie twice. AND the same ‘intelligent people’ who could give a rat’s ass about the people of Tibet.

It is my belief that if Obama is the democratic nominee, this country will go through a cataclysm unparalleled in our history. (I can’t have an opinion. At least I have the balls to say my opinion BEFORE the fact. Of course, Jed would use that to blame ME if what I predict occurs.) From what I’ve seen, certainly herein, the Obama supporters are more concerned with their party and their ‘ideals’ than the country. They can’t wait four or eight years while this country gets used to the idea of Obama.

And Jed, I wouldn’t lecture me on the 60s and 70s. I was there, in college, in the army and back in college again. There was NO revolution. Nobody could give a rat’s ass about Viet Nam either except for the draft. The MIC learned their lesson and now there’s no draft and we’re mired in TWO wars and there’s not a peep out of the ‘intelligent people,’ unless you count whining on the internet. ‘Intelligent people’ my ass. That’s an oxymoron if I ever heard one. The American people are, by and large, good, considerate and well-being. But we’re a nation of sheep.

BD, I agree with you that this BS does no good. We should be talking about ‘serious’ things. I’ve repeatedly said that, but no one herein seems to care. They love beating on HRC, and, it appears, me. The last thread ‘offered’ by TD was three days ago, on the RS covers of the past. Oh boy, that got about a half-dozen comments. That same day we got a thread on the ‘Bosnia Affair,’ preceded, by a day, by yet another ‘Bosnia Affair’ thread, preceded by an air quality thread (I love what alien billie had to say, very trenchant) AND another ‘Bosnia Affair’ thread. (Am I the only one that sees a pattern here? Two days before that, ‘Bosnia Affair.’ Over a week ago, the ‘Tibet Affair.’ (Maybe you should talk to TD Jed, he apparently doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the Tibetan people. Or, maybe, just maybe, we have NO moral base upon which to criticize other nation’s behavior.)

Bang away boys, I’m going to continue to say what I think and feel and as I’ve demonstrated in the past, if anyone can point out where I’ve made a verifiable error, NOT just differed in opinion and/or perspective, you know I will be the first to admit it and own up to it. Jed has NEVER admitted being wrong. Must be scary up on that pinnacle. Me, I like to make a mistake now and again, less distance to fall. Even for a racist.

Dboy,

I guess you dozed through math AND civics. Obama doesn’t have enough delegates. He can’t get enough delegates between now and the convention. Only if Clinton concedes, and we can rule THAT out, can Obama win before the convention.

(Jed Clampett)

Well Doggies!!

Now don’t be so hard on yourself Mr. Addison.

Dirty Dennis,

It looks like you’re still eating up classes on Benedict Arnold.

Clinton cannot win unless Obama drops out, yet he is both ahead in delegates and the popular vote and by all probability will stay that way until the convention. Again THERE IS NO WAY SHE CAN WIN.

There is credible talk that Clinton wants to destroy Obama’s nomination just so she can run again in 2012. Can we put you in the catagory of those who support this self destructive idea?

You have never offered a credible reason for Clinton to stay in the race. Every single thing you have brought up has been dismissed. What do you have left except the credentials of a traitor?

Dboy,

You must have slept through ALL your classes. Right now Obama has 1,625 ‘pledged’ delegates, Clinton 1,486. You need 2,204 delegates to win the nomination. There are 566 delegates left to ‘pledge.’ Obama needs 579 to reach the magic number. Even if he won ALL the remaining delegates, he would not have enough to secure the nomination. Clear enough for you?

Now, I ‘highlighted’ pledged because that’s all they are. They have SAID they are going to vote for Obama, but under the Democratic Party rules, they don’t HAVE to. Most, if not all, can vote for whomever they like. Obama knows that, Clinton knows that, you do not.

I guess you don’t know who Benedict Arnold is either. He went over to the OTHER SIDE doofus. I think I’ve demonstrated I’ll vote for ANY Dem. That’s more than we know about you.

Believe me, if ‘I’ can come up with these scenarios, so can the party powers. At one time this Presidential election was a lock for the Dems, now they see it slipping away. They’re caught between the ground and a hard place. But it DOES make for interesting theater.

By the by, even Obama says Clinton should NOT drop out. Perhaps you should do more to emulate the man you ‘seem’ to admire. He’s setting a good example. But then, he didn’t sleep through classes.

Yesterday Mr. Obama said, “You know, there’s no doubt that among some of my supporters or some of her supporters, there’s probably been some irritation created. You can’t tell me that some of my supporters are going to say, well, we’d rather have the guy who may want to stay in Iraq for a hundred years because we’re mad that Senator Clinton ran a negative ad against Senator Obama. And I think the converse is true as well.”

As much as I admire the HELL out of the man, I CAN say there are some of his supporters who WOULD say they’re rather have the guy who would keep us in Iraq for 100 years.

Hillary Clinton is the best, greatest, most fabulous female candidate for president ever. She’s tremendously smart. She’s beautiful. She’s warm. She’s caring. What’s not to like.

It’s about time in this nation’s history that we have a female president. The world would be a better place. Men have, let’s face it, screwed things up considerably. That’s mainly why we’re in the mess we’re in. A woman like Hillary could change that.

People trust me, I’m from the Balkans: Sniper Fire!?!? That’s NOT true!!

KSTONED: “Hillary Clinton is the best, greatest, most fabulous female candidate for president ever. She’s tremendously smart. She’s beautiful. She’s warm. She’s caring. What’s not to like.”

She’s the ONLY ‘fabulous, female candidate for president ever.’

Smart? Smart enough to rip apart the democratic party by clinging to an ‘elitist’ thread of hope connected to the superdelegates?

Beautiful, warm and caring? Says who?

PS: DirtyDennis: If Obama gets nominated and your armageddon of slime, smear, and possible attempts on his life WERE to happen. Maybe, just maybe, this country needs the reminder that it’s still oppressive at the elitist level. Maybe, just maybe it’s time to bring those ‘crazies’ out of the woodwork again if only to expose the problem itself…..

But, it sounds like you’d rather appease the crazies and nominate Clinton just to avoid the resurrection of the racists…..

Ham,

Actually, I’d rather nominate Clinton so we can win the election AND give the crazies, et al, the chance to see Obama for a while.

DD, I meant that I agreed with Jed, and others, in principle, not on every statement they’ve made (some of which I think you may have taken personally when they weren’t intended that way). But I didn’t go back and look so don’t quote me on that. While I don’t think all whites fear Obama, I do think that there will be people who won’t vote for him not only because he’s black, but because he’s different. But the same can be said of Clinton, and people not voting for her because she’s a woman (not to sound like Ed Rendell). But personally I think if someone is unwilling to vote for someone “strictly” because they are a woman or not white, then they are most likely a republican’t anyway. It IS my opinion though that Obama has overwhelmingly shown himself to be the best candidate of the three. And when others challenge that thought, I do wonder to myself “why?” But that’s just me.

The MSM seem to be having a field day with both candidates. They see-saw week to week in equally playing up, then tearing down, both Obama and Clinton. If you ask me, the one who’s getting a free ride by the press is McCain. But I think a distinction still exists between the two major PR nightmares for Clinton and Obama. Obama’s centers around what someone else said, Clinton’s centers around what she herself said. And I think that’s a big difference (hence the “she brought it on herself” attitude of some, myself included). That’s also the reason most posts on this thread bash Hillary rather than support Obama. The subject, here anyway, IS HRC.

As far as the left cannibalizing their own, when it comes to the candidates themselves, not their supporters, I feel Clinton is the only one guilty of turning on their own. I think I can still see some of Obama’s tie stuck in her teeth. I feel Obama has stayed the course and kept the higher ground. He has handled everything thrown at him with dignity, humility, and understanding, even going out of his way to get us to speak directly to some of those issues in great detail. He hasn’t resorted to the mudslinging, stereotyping, fear-mongering, or other such tactics usually associated with the GOP, that, I feel, Clinton has. Which is why I think America IS ready for Barack Obama. Some may say experience, like that of Hillary Clinton, is what we want in our next President. I say the tact, character, diplomacy, and cooperative spirit that Obama has demonstrated, is what we NEED in our next President.

My dictionary defines cataclysmic as: Referring to a violent upheaval that causes great destruction OR brings about a fundamental change.

While you, DD, may fear the former, I truly hope for the latter. })

DoubleD: This has been quite a little debate here. But, before things get out of hand, I’d like to try to understand why you think Hillary has a better chance in the general election than Obama.

I’m under the impression that the registered republicans are voting for Hillary en masse because they believe they will obliterate her in the general. Am I missing something?

Note to Hillary: Embellishing a report is the exact reason you were ever so obliging in voting for the Iraq invasion…….

Hamilton,

Actually Clinton is NOT the only female to run for President.

1872 Victoria Woodhull
1884 Belva Ann Lockwood
1888 Belva Ann Lockwood
1940 Grace Allen
1968 Charlene Mitchell
1972 Linda Jenness
1972 Evelyn Reed
1976 Margaret Wright
1980 Ellen McCormack
1980 Maureen Smith
1980 Deirdre Griswold
1984 Sonia Johnson
1984 Gavrielle Holmes
1988 Lenora Fulani
1988 Willa Kenoyer
1992 Lenora Fulani
1992 Helen Halyard
1992 Isabell Masters
1992 Gloria LaRiva
1996 Monica Moorehead
1996 Marsha Feinland
1996 Mary Cal Hollis
1996 Diane Beall Templin
1996 Isabell Masters
2000 Monica Moorehead
2000 Cathy Gordon Brown

BD,

Excellent post. Measured, well thought out and deftly presented. I agree with all you say. And I sincerely hope the cataclysm IS as you indicate. I have high hopes for young Barack. Wish I could say the same for the American people. I do NOT share Jed’s opinion that they are ‘intelligent.’ Too much evidence to the contrary. And I don’t mean to single out Americans. I can’t think of any ‘people’ that have demonstrated exemplory behavior.

Tnx for the response.

PS The cannibalism I was alluding to was meant for some on this web.

Coach,

I doubt I’ll be able to make you ‘understand’ my thoughts. They’re intuitive, hunches, and as such don’t have a lot of support. I just ‘feel’ it.

Please remember I am not presenting HRC as some wunder candidate, although my esteem for her is much greater than yours, rather, I’m taking a step back and looking at things from a general perspective.

Analyzing what will happen with HRC as the candidate is pretty easy, the Right has been after her for years and she’s not cracked. If anything, attacks on her will result in some sympathy.

But what do you/we REALLY know about Obama, other than he says nice things, things we want to hear. Take the ‘experience’ issue. What REAL experience has he had? Organizing voter registration in Chicago doesn’t count. That’s a feel-good story. When HRC was voting on authorizing going to war (a vote she could scarcely NOT endorse since she was, after all, representing the state that was attacked, people seem to ignore that fact; why SHOULD she read the doctored intelligence reports, it was a no-brainer for her; did the other Senator, Democrat Schumer, from NY vote for authorization as well? You bet your sweet ass he did. The vote was 77-23. What possible ‘good’ could have come from them voting against it, save being ostracized in their own state?), Obama was in Springfield, IL pushing through a bill to video interrogations. Hardly a situation to get him any heat. Even the cops wanted the bill.

My point, he hasn’t been under fire yet. And you KNOW the Right will bring out the big guns for him. Do I think he’ll crack. No, not necessarily, but I don’t KNOW he can take it. I know it of HRC.

Further, I don’t share Jed’s optimism of the ‘intelligence’ of the American people. These are the same ones that elected Bushney, twice. I live in South Central U.S. and there is a latent racism that’s frightening. If it was localized, I wouldn’t feel so bad, but I’ve traveled all over the country and seen it everywhere. I doubt there is a soul on earth without some form of bigotry, the prevailing form in this country is racism. Just look at the folderol on immigration. It is NOT about jobs or welfare, it’s about ‘different’ people.

As much as the Obama supporters bemoan pictures of him in Muslim garb being displayed all over the internet (I don’t watch TV so can’t comment on that medium), that is nothing, nothing compared to what the Right will bring out. And it’s my belief they won’t hesitate to manufacture situations. How about having a white woman claim Obama propositioned her? How do you refute it? I’m not worried about how HE will handle that, I’m worried about how the ‘intelligent’ American people will handle it. Hell, the Right will even ‘appeal’ to the blacks that Obama is NOT black. And all he’ll have to counter this onslaught is hope and change. You don’t think the Right will beat THAT up as well?

Hope? Hope? That’s all you have is hope? Well Johnnie Boy has more than hope. And they’ll go on to REALLY expound on experience and how McCain stood up to the lobbyists (Ick) and so on. McCain really does have more experience than Obama. More than HRC it can be argued. Change, what change? Be specific. A depression is change. And if Obama hasn’t been specific up to this point (why not?) then we shouldn’t expect that he’ll trot out some master plan this Summer. Hell, the Right will argue that ‘change’ means more welfare for blacks and more blacks getting appointments, etc. How do you argue such claims? You don’t and the latent racism is stirred.

Finally, in the BEST case scenario, which is unlikely to happen, the Right will pose the following question: Who do you trust in these troubled times? John McCain, a U.S. Naval Officer, war hero, prisoner of war and U.S. Senator for X years, a proven leader of men who has sponsored bipartisan legislation on campaign finance and ethics? Or Barack Obama, a product of liberal, elitist Harvard, NO military experience and a U.S. Senator, who ran unopposed, for four years, a period in which he sponsored legislation that never passed out of Congress? (BD, I sincerely hope you understand that I meant a de facto unopposed, not a de jure. Sure, the Right threw up, and I mean that literally, Keynes, but that was an insult to the IL people. Even so, he got over 20% of the vote. Hell, Nader and Perot didn’t do that well.)

On that latter point, what’s the big deal of introducing legislation, I believe it was about troop withdrawal or funding, that hasn’t got a snowball’s chance in hell of passing. It’s an empty gesture. Any bill Bush doesn’t like gets vetoed and the Left doesn’t have the votes to override. So you could make the accusation that Obama was merely grandstanding. He certainly didn’t take any heat for it, just praise from his constituents. Big deal. Even McCain is guilty of the same. Who’s going to argue AGAINST campaign and ethics reform? That’s grandstanding too, but at least his bills got enacted, which is all you’ll hear about from the Right. Anything to the contrary will be sour grapes.

You called this a debate, Coach, perhaps. Given that it’s all opinion and that only one scenario is going to ensue, thereby rendering all other options moot, it’s a discussion at best, an argument at worst. I’d like to think it’s the former. You want Obama to win the election; I want a Democrat to win. If Obama wins, and survives, I’ll be one happy puppy. Can you say the same for Clinton?

Thx DD.
I would add that I too am a bit of a fatalist. I often wonder if any of us really makes a difference in the outcome of these things. Some, like my wife, just don’t understand the passion that people like you, myself, and the others who regularly post here, have for politics and our government. This election is by far the most exciting, emotional, and stressful that I’ve ever experienced. But I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I sometimes envy the folks who don’t give politics or world matters a second thought (or a first for that matter). I know I’d feel a lot less stress. But those thoughts are always quickly replaced by the thought of what could happen if MORE people felt as passionate about our government. As far as HRC supporters go, you at least try to get others to understand where you’re coming from and your reasons for why you feel the way you do, which is more than I can say for most. The fact that you stand up for what you believe in, even in an increasingly hostile environment, is admirable to say the least. })

Coach,

I was going to do a PS to a lengthy post I made, but saw that it vanished. Perhaps young TD is reviewing it for taste and content. I’ll keep an eye out to see if it appears later, although I’ll be leaving soon. I don’t want to repost with the chance it’ll appear twice. It’s a tad lengthy.

But I DID want to address your repeated assertions that the Right is crossing over to vote for HRC ’cause they fear BHO. How do you know that? I believe it’s a secret ballot, ridiculous caucses notwithstanding. Any reports of ‘voter preference’ is what THEY want you to think, and that’s all you can be assured of.

Along those lines I hear where Rushnie is calling for support for Obama in PA to keep it close. Close? I thought Obama was winning. A victory in PA might cinch the Superdelegates for Obama. A win for HRC only prolongs the agony (or ecstacy if you’re a Con).

BD,

And painful, tnx. I echo your sentiments exactly, ESPECIALLY wishing for more participation. Although I lament the lack of ‘intelligence’ in the masses, it is their inherent right (and duty?) to vote (elsewhere I evened opined positive for a voting stipend)and I wish they would. Hell, the ‘enlightened’ don’t seem immune from taking the low road, why should we worry about the ‘unenlightened?’

An EX girlfriend voted for Bush ’cause she ‘liked’ him. I used to vote ‘for the man’ but that’s really a euphamism for “don’t know what’s going on,” and shudder when I hear that expression.

That said, if people are going to vote ‘for the man’ then it means the party had better put up a candidate with poise and charisma (Mondale? Dukakis? Kerry?). Recognize the market and appeal to it.

I REALLY try NOT to get caught up in all this stuff. I’ve been through it too many times and I’ve mostly felt pain and anger as a result. But when I hear the clarion call, I’m powerless to resist. Quitting drink and smoking was easier.

PS Loved your Obama wan-kenobi. Very good. If the campaign had any balls, they’d use that ‘theme.’ Guess it’s be too ‘unpresidential.’

I guess everyone sees that Ad the Right’s running on McCain. Get used to the hero thingie. I don’t have the sound on my PC turned up so I don’t know what they’re saying, but I doubt they’re STATING he’s a hero, rather letting you infer it. More powerful that way.

They’ll take the high road until the Dems name their ‘man.’ THEN they’ll get ugly. In the meantime they’ll be reinforcing all the positives, over and over and over.

And don’t worry about $$$$, there’s nothing preventing ‘concerned citizens’ from airing their beliefs on TV. It’s called the first amendment. And the Right has a LOT of very rich ‘concerned citizens.’

Dennis: No, I don’t share your same feelings about HRC. I don’t want her to be the nominee because she won’t win the general. Period. Opinion, yes. But, and I’ll say it again: I HAVE FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE FROM A FRIEND IN TEXAS WHO TOLD ME ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS VOTING FOR HILLARY. She also told me why. It’s not some urban legend, my friend. The reason I put it in caps is because you’re still doubting it as if I heard it from some pundit on the Joe Scarborough show, or something. It’s not some straw poll. It’s a fact, pure and simple that you still refuse to acknowledge. If you like, I’ll gladly have her send you an email confirming the report.

Nutshell: You ‘feel’ like she has a better chance. I KNOW Obama has a better chance if only because the republicans don’t want to run against him. And, maybe, just maybe, they don’t want to run against him because there isn’t any real dirt on him??

Coach,

I have a feeling we shall certainly find out. And I have the feeling we’ve milked this one long enough. However, I will ‘close’ by saying I never meant to impugn either your good name OR your message. You will forgive me, I hope, if I suggest that one person’s observation doesn’t exactly sum up the entire GOP Country’s world. I’m sure there ARE people on the Right who fear Obama. Just as there are people on the Left who disagree on which candidate we should nominate.

You have to admit, I hope, it’s great theater and like BD, it gets the juices flowing. You know I’ll be there supporting Barack, I just wish you’d have my back with Hil. I think if things get ugly, you’ll pitch in. But I also seriously doubt HRC will be the candidate. I think she/they have flubbed the ball too many times this season. This was never about who was best. For me, at least. That was always obvious, up to a point. We’re now going to see if the Rookie’s ‘production’ is as good as his ‘promise.’ Me, I hope he knocks a few folks down. Chin music?

The facts

Gallup poll (March 31 2008)

59% of Democrats and 64% Republicans believe the Democrats’ prospects of beating John McCain in November are better if Barack Obama rather than Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee. 30% of Democrats said Clinton would have a better chance of defeating McCain

64% of Republicans believe McCain would have a better chance of defeating the Democrats if Clinton were the nominee; 22% of Republicans believe McCain would have a better chance of defeating the Democrats if Obama were the nominee.

Nationally, 51% of Democrats prefer Obama, 43% prefer Clinton

56% of Democrats believe the continuing campaign is doing “more harm than good,” while 35% believe it is doing “more good than harm”

Of Clinton supporters: 48% say the continuing campaign is doing more harm than good, while 40% say it is doing more good than harm.

Gallup poll (December 2007)

93% of Americans say they would vote for a black candidate for president
86% of Americans say they would vote for a female candidate for president

“Gender stereotypes trump race stereotypes in every social science test,” says Alice Eagly, a psychology professor at Northwestern University.

Boston Globe, Feb 17 08: “Obama’s ability to disarm the initial reservations of an increasing number of white voters as the race has progressed — especially over the past week, in his string of eight straight primary victories — fits with the findings of bias researchers that racial bias is strikingly mutable, and can be mitigated and even erased by everything from clothing and speech cadence to setting and skin tone.”

Gallup poll (March 31 2008)

59% of Democrats and 64% Republicans believe the Democrats’ prospects of beating John McCain in November are better if Barack Obama rather than Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee. 30% of Democrats said Clinton would have a better chance of defeating McCain

64% of Republicans believe McCain would have a better chance of defeating the Democrats if Clinton were the nominee; 22% of Republicans believe McCain would have a better chance of defeating the Democrats if Obama were the nominee.

Nationally, 51% of Democrats prefer Obama, 43% prefer Clinton

56% of Democrats believe the continuing campaign is doing “more harm than good,” while 35% believe it is doing “more good than harm”

Of Clinton supporters: 48% say the continuing campaign is doing more harm than good, while 40% say it is doing more good than harm.

Gallup poll (December 2007)

93% of Americans say they would vote for a black candidate for president
86% of Americans say they would vote for a female candidate for president

“Gender stereotypes trump race stereotypes in every social science test,” says Alice Eagly, a psychology professor at Northwestern University.

Boston Globe, Feb 17 08: “Obama’s ability to disarm the initial reservations of an increasing number of white voters as the race has progressed — especially over the past week, in his string of eight straight primary victories — fits with the findings of bias researchers that racial bias is strikingly mutable, and can be mitigated and even erased by everything from clothing and speech cadence to setting and skin tone.”

Gee Dirty Dennis,

The facts below don’t seem to bode well for your “hunches” about Hillary.

Let me ask another question a “child” would ask a “grownup:” Didn’t Bush invade Iraq on a “hunch” and if so, why is making decisions based on a “hunch” a good thing?

I was always taught in the classes I didn’t attend that the U.S. was founded on the principles of the enlightenment, which stressed reason over the “experience” gained by nobility and religious authorities through birthright. I would put forth that a “hunch” falls in the latter category: a feeling unproven through reason and fact.

Well Dirty Dennis look at the post below: even republicans believe Obama will have a better chance of beating McCain.

You want to know another sizzling tidbit of fact? The subcategory of Democrats most likely to leave the Democratic party to vote for McCain if Obama were the nominee over Hillary are none other than: THE UNEDUCATED!

Guess I should’ve attended class more often right? (that’s sarcasm old man.)

But seriously, who better than Obama to teach the uneducated?

Dboy,

Only the young and naive trust polls.

Because, if polls were so great, why have an election?

And Bushney didn’t have a ‘hunch,’ he had an agenda. You can put legacy and revenge and a few other egocentric rationales behind it, but when it’s all said and done, he wanted to go into Iraq before he was Prez and he was waiting for an ‘opportunity.’ That doesn’t sound much like a ‘hunch’ to me.

That said, this country has been ruled far more by ‘hunch’ than most would care to admit. Guess you slept through History too.

Who better than Obama to teach the uneducated? Indeed. We ALL have a lot to learn. That’s where education begins, with recognition.

(Jed Clampett)

All you need to do is pay attention to the political leadership elections in the PDR of mexico to understand both ‘phenomena’. Our methods are a bit more sophisticated, but it’s the same driving principle and results.

This is a huge blow to Clinton’s credibility as an accomplished foreign policy official.

It amazes me that Clinton simply dismisses the lie as “misremembering” the Bosnia trip. She also claims that her lack of sleep led to the lie. I’ve been exhausted in my day, but I’ve never been that tired that I completely imagined sniper fire.

Clinton’s flat out disregard for the truth is astounding.