I will be glad to be the first comment on this. i remember when the war started. I was on spring break in destin, fl. probably drunk, but was in the living room of a house when they showed pictures of the bombing. the people i was with were making the typical “yeah, awesome, kill those bastard” comments, and i was ashamed. ashamed at my friends for not comprehending the situation unfolding before us. ashamed at our party for not stopping this, and, oh my god, ashamed at our country. I was 19 at the time and already could have told you the result of the war merely from one middle east history class. obviously no one in the administration ever took that class.

Now 5 years later, where are we. nothing good has come out of iraq, and it is unlikely nothing has. the president will not admit he was wrong, placing him in the same class as a person running for our parties nominee. Hillary said today that patraeus an extraordinary leader. only if an extraordinary leader is willing to tell an administration everything they want to here

so today i am still ashamed. ashamed in our party for not removing us from the quagmire that is iraq. ashamed that 4000 of my friends have died and countless more injured. ashamed that kids in our country die from diseases because the money to treat them is lost in some hell hole of a desert. ashamed that we “might” elect some on that clearly didn’t have the balls to stand up to the establishment and vote to keep us going into war. ashamed that I have to apologize for being an american when i go to other countries, but more than anything ashamed in us as a people for not being able to make the just, moral, and right decision when it is difficult.

I was pissed when we started and still am.

Well, Trey…let’s be a little more profound, shall we?

Bush was hijacked by a group of capitalists hell-bent on robbing the United States treasury for years and years. And at the same time, secure oil reserves for American oil companies for many more years. Not enough for you? Those same capitalists crafted legislation that gives the president the authority to go to war with anybody (2% doctrine; patriot act) based on false pretenses. Not done yet? Those same capitalists forced the price of oil to rise almost 300%.

This war in Iraq was/is/and always will be about oil. Iraq was not a threat to the United States of America, period. The ONLY threat to the United States of America is the same capitalists that hijacked this country for the last 8 years. Terrorism a threat to the U.S.? Seriously? Terrorism is an emotion set into action. Emotions are free will. And, most importantly, there’s a reason behind the emotion.

Damn the neocons. Damn anybody who hasn’t apologized for their vote on the Iraq invasion. Damn the capitalists who exploited the country (ours and theirs).

Once again: If oil is such a valuable energy source to this country, and therefore a threat to our security, why isn’t it regulated under Homeland Security?

I got high and watched the bombs drop all afternoon while I was on spring break in high school. I remember exactly where I was and who I was with still.

coach, you are spot on. i think that you can take the capitalist hijacking a little bit father back than the last 8 years, more like 28

I thought people who were hi-jacked were victims. Georgie Porgie II is one of the hi-jackers. Ask him what he’s going to do after his term expires.

(Jed Clampett)

He’s gonna keep dancing his Jigg, happy as hell that oil is over $100 a barrel and his stocks in the MIC are booming.

He wasn’t HI-JACKED, you can’t Hi-Jack the willing. That’s what skulls do, that is why they form a secret society, to help them collude to strip others of opportunity… to destroy other people’s dream so theirs can flourish. More like a nightmare!!

Does anyone think that Bushney will ever be charged with their war crimes? You’ve all hit the nail on the head. I just can’t understand why, if the rest of the world is as pissed off about the whole situation as we are, more isn’t being done to hold the bastards accountable. I know it all has to do with power. But just as the U.S. should stand up and speak out against the situation in Tibet, I feel other countries should stand up and have the balls to express their outrage at our government with more than just words. Sorry if this sounds naive, but I just don’t get it. Thanks Jed for the background info. I feel that I learn something new from you guys every day. Though I don’t have as knowledgeable of a grasp of these issues as some of you, I definitely feel your pain.

(Jed Clampett)

My voice may get silenced soon. It is a time of war you know. We are all expendable and a threat to these ‘people’. And I know enough about this technology to not delude myself. For example, I understand that if they really wanted to find those missing white house emails, all they would need to do is inspect those data streams the NSA captured with the telecoms help. Every typeof communication goes through those trunks, from voice to text to video to encrypted data. It is all captured and stored to use the information on anyone whenever needed. I just hope others will at the least raise their voices without resorting to hate and recriminations, but speaking truth to power for the benefit of all of us. otherwise were all screw#d.
I don’t think THEY will be, unless the right head of the executive decides to enforce certain laws to set a precedent and an example. Wishful thinking though, but I haven’t lost hope.

No matter who’s in charge next year, I think everyone had better start warming up to the idea that we’re going to be ‘involved’ in Iraq for a LONG time.

Dennis-
I don’t think that we should warm to the idea at all. We should continue to cry Foul! If enough people wake up to what’s going on around them, then the powers-that-be will be forced to leave this bloody mess. Military action needs to end today. Humanitarian efforts need to get ramped up yesterday. They spending a lot of time, effort and money to keep the images and issues out of the average American’s daily thoughts. Let’s not let them. War is evil.

I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore!

The alternative is like this thread: open ended.

Dallas,

Of course war is evil. You think ‘war’ will stop just because we leave? Wee created a mess. And we’re just going to turn our backs on the mess we’ve created? Have you ever considered that we should, for once, be responsible for our actions?

I’m all for stringing Bushney and Friends up for all this, but I also don’t think we can turn our backs on the millions of people we’ve displaced.

Johnnie Boy wants to stay and fight it out; you, it would appear, want to turn your back and walk away. Has anyone considered TALKING? Perhaps if the UN got involved and Syria, Iran and yes, Russia and China were major players in the talks, something good could come of all this mess.

We’re not quite sure what will happen if we fight it out ala Johnnie Boy, but we’re pretty sure it’ll be ugly and futile. And it’s a certainty that there’ll be chaos and ethnic cleansing if we just walk. I think hanging around a little longer and opening a meaningful dialog is probably the best choice open to us.

dennis you are right, the problem is that in america the people want black and white… they do not want the middle ground, even if it is the best plan. From the beginning there was a need for international talks, but we turned our back. I hope that if we needed the world they would not turn our back on us. It is idiotic to think that obama got in trouble for saying he would open up dialog with foreign leaders. is the only way to progress as a nation in the world through communications with the powers that be regardless of who they are. but the people of this country want yes and no and good and bad and as seen in this case, it is not the simple.

i think that this issue that will eventually cause us to leave the war will be monetary. we can no longer afford to have a war, and soon congress is going to be forced to have bread or guns and the bread is going to ultimately win. we can ‘t have both, for our own sake, but especially for those to come after us.

“We must be as cautious getting out, as we were careless going in.”

Truman drops the only atom bombs in the history of the world and nothing happens to him.

Nixon gets pardoned for his criminal activity.

Reagan gets worshiped for thumbing his nose at the Russians and their concession to disarm all nukes.

Oliver North gets pardoned.

Bill Clinton gets away with lying to Congress, literally.

Scooter Libby gets commuted.

Only citizens get in trouble in this country, and THAT is what we need to worry about. Besides the fact that we create more enemies than we eliminate with our phucked up foreign policy decisions, it’s the inaction of congress to punish lawbreaking politicians that will lead to the demise of the U.S. Each generation of interns will push the rule of law even further. Remember, these current idiots in charge were interns in the Nixon administration and saw how far they could take the rule of law without getting in trouble.
That, and that alone is why we need to get to the bottom of the lies about Iraq. Deterrence. If there’s no punishment, there’s no deterrent to these pukes.

Hear, Hear!

I was in a bar at the time. When they started to show bombs dropping in Baghdad, music got turned down and the TVs got turned up. I remember the speech that Bush gave while the bombs were being dropped. He actually said that this was a crusade. Of all the words he could have used to describe the conflict. That word was the worst choice for it. Unless, he wanted a prolong conflict to occur. I am not cynical enough to think so.

Quite honestly, anyone who is objective about what has happened when we invaded Iraq knows this has been one of the worst foreign affairs disaster ever. The only way out looks like is getting the UN involved and replace our troops with theirs.

JP

I don’t know which is worse, what they did or that they got away with it.

I sure hope there’s a heaven ’cause they aren’t going to be invited there. If there is and if there IS ‘an accounting,’ I’d sure like to be there to hear them whine and whimper. Perhaps the troops and civilians killed in the conflict could be impaneled to sit in judgement.

(Jed Clampett)

Heaven, Hell… who the fk knows. All I know is here. Once it was as heaven. Nature ruled and a plethora of animals and birds and plants fed and clothed and entertained us. Then people got sick and decided to have a war against nature, her animals were decimated, starting with the smartest and most important. Tigers, lions, bears. Then they started on the cultures. Invading old cultures and destroying all they had learned through the millenia, the devastation was almost completely effective. Then they introduced the industrial revolution to destroy the natural resources. Chemicals were dumped in the waters, poisoning them, disrupting aquifers and killing the fish living within. Trees were decimated, entire forests were thoughtlessly felled without replacement. Today only 3% of the redwood forests that existed during the arrival of pioneers still persists. OUr planet is quickly being turned into hell. A hell much like that depicted in the Terminator movies. So if they have to return to this hell they’ve helped make worse, let it be in a place like darfur. Perhaps suleymania.

I think the reasons for this war are obvious: oil, weapons manufacturing and Israeli national security.

What I feel most ashamed about is the people who marched right along to the war drums the administration was beating in 2002-3. There was an American flag on every doorstep as if to signify our unity in our hatred of Muslims everywhere.

This war was sold on two things that your average American seems to have an overabundance of: fear and racism. Fear of Saddam’s WMD and of the dark possibilities in a post 911 world, and racism that allowed the majority of Americans to believe those in Iraq were similar in any way that mattered to Al Quaeda extremists.

It’s sad because of the way the media brainwashed these people, never uttering a word contrary to the Bush war/propaganda machine. Why? Was that out of fear too? It’s sad because the war provided the perfect vehicle to get Bush, the worst president in American history re-elected on a campaign of fear and xenophobia.

It’s sad because if you look into it, there is a booming business this war created for private companies contracting former goverment functions. It’s an entire economy whose function is to perpetuate itself: to perpetuate the war.

It’s sad because of the moral damage it has done to the U.S. and the violation of civil liberties it provided the excuse for. We now torture, eavesdrop on American phone calls and emails and allow multinational corporations a free pass when breaking the law.

This has all happened without a sound of protest from those “citizens” hanging flags outside their front doors and pasting ribbons on their bumpers.

It just makes you ashamed of the voters who allowed this to happen. In the final analysis, it’s their fault.

“It’s sad because if you look into it, there is a booming business this war created for private companies contracting former government functions. It’s an entire economy whose function is to perpetuate itself: to perpetuate the war.”

No doubt about that, Brain.
For an even more frightening look at that very notion, I would implore all of you to seek out the BBC documentary “Why We Fight,” if you haven’t seen it already. It’s a chilling look into the whole Military Industrial Complex and it’s perverse relationship to politics.
What’s even more frightening is that five minutes or so into the story, John McSame chimes in saying how it’s the United States duty to spread democracy around the world. I would love to see that clip played to him live, in a you-tube style debate, and then ask him WHY? Especially since it is SO clear that we haven’t even come close to achieving that goal right here at home. Wouldn’t leading by example be much more persuasive?

Brain,

I loved/agreed with all you wrote. Nicely done. Until the end. We can’t say it’s ‘their’ fault. It’s ‘our’ fault. Much as it pains me to associate with the likes of Bushney, the entire country has to take responsibility, and credit when seldom it’s due, for its actions.

None of this was born overnight. DDE warned of the dangers of the MIC back in the 50s. Each party, and by extension the people it represents, has had a chance to reverse the trend and direction this country has taken. But they have chose not.

Even the people who don’t vote are accountable. Had they voted, perhaps there wouldn’t BE a Bushney today. What a thought.

Your analysis and prose are excellent. May it be a place from which to rebuild.

I just read where Prez Musharraf ‘welomes democracy.’ While I wouldn’t book a flight to Teheran right away, I’m trying to remember what Georgie Porgie said when the Dems took control of Congress. What was that now?

Musharraf is prez of pakistan, not iran. Tehran is capital of iran, islamabad the capital of pakistan.

But I think we’ve already established bushney are total liars who are being allowed to sustain the lie by a lethargic congress and an apathetic populace.
The big question is the future, what will happen after the elections? Will anyone be held accountable for this situation? will our actions be changed in order to actually resolve our problems instead of merely patching them and hoping they go away?

Oops, a senior moment. My apologies and tnx for pointing that out. Delicately.