I was really concerned when Hillary Clinton mentioned that she believed that a core Democratic belief was Universal Healthcare. Never in the history of this nation has someone tied such a liberal agenda to this country. Although it is ideal give everyone in this country health coverage, we cannot afford it for the following reasons:
1. In order to pay for it, we would need to raise taxes.
2. If we did not raise taxes, then the government will have to undergo deficit spending and therefore increase our national debt. Then we can have even more fun with higher grocery, gas, and other prices (don’t worry, your grandchildren will face this).
3. Not everyone will be “covered.” People will have to purchase supplemental insurance because the government won’t cover everything.

So if you are interested in another big government spending project larger than Social Security then vote Hillary. Unfortunately, she has not come up with an idea that will save Social Security and what makes everyone think that if she can’t handle that single issue that she will be successful with healthcare this time around.

None of the candidates addressed these economic challenges. I have a feeling that if they are not toast by the general election then the country will be toast (bankrupt).

Seems you’re forgetting another option. Make spending more efficient. Instead of GIVING israel $30Billion a year in aid, demand something for those payments, something like dignity and a viable nation for the palestinians. Stop giving away our hard earned money to companies like exxonMobil that don’t need it. If the CEO of a healthcare company is syphoning money out of the medical system at the rate of $1.4billion a year and the other officers in the company are making millionaire salaries, then that means that all that money is being denied the public in the way of health care services and given to a small group of men that think themselves more important than the health of the nation. Try to put down democrats all you like, but anyone with a working pair of eyes and a brain can tell what party the guys that are raping and pillaging our great nation into the ground belong to. Republican actions are the greatest threat to national security next to climate change that anyone can conceive.

I thought Hillary’s performance in the debate was magnificent. Put Obama on the defensive, and bait Edwards into an attack on him as well. There’s no reason why Obama wouldn’t have to defend his voting record, vote by vote, just like every other candidate (something he’d have to do in a national election against the smearmaster Conserblicans). Seeing him whine about having to explain himself makes me even more convinced he’s not ready to lead this country, let alone win the election. Nice bit of exposure, Hillary. Maybe SC is yours after all.

I thought Hillary’s performance in the debate was magnificent. Put Obama on the defensive, and bait Edwards into an attack on him as well. There’s no reason why Obama wouldn’t have to defend his voting record, vote by vote, just like every other candidate (something he’d have to do in a national election against the smearmaster Conserblicans). Seeing him whine about having to explain himself makes me even more convinced he’s not ready to lead this country, let alone win the election. Nice bit of exposure, Hillary. Maybe SC is yours after all.

If you realize the ice cream cone is analogous to the ideology of the republican party, sure!!!

Keep eating your ice cream pal, we can only hope you will do like the obese eater on Monty Python’s Flying Circus and let the gluttony force you to eat that last morsel that will cause you to explode. Much like the economy is doing to the Republican party at the moment.

I got to hand it to you, you did display some imagination this time… It comes from a cesspool and has nothing of any real value to add, but it is imagination nonetheless, be proud of yourself and treat yourself to another crappyroad ice cream cone.

Hey Rob: What does this mean? “Never in the history of this nation has someone tied such a liberal agenda to this country”…???

Universal health care has been dubbed a liberal agenda because the conservatives are completely against it. But, comparitively, do you consider the USPS (united states post office) a liberal outfit? It’s completely universal and completely paid for by taxes, but yet, people aren’t howling for its destruction…….

Universa l health care should, and can, be an option. And, NO, it would NOT raise your taxes at all, if done right. Pull every single one of the oil subsidies, pull aid to ‘terrorist states’ like Israel, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc…, and roll back the Bush tax cuts. There, there’s enough money to cover ‘universal health care’.

One more point about the ‘conservative ideology’. Why is it okay to borrow to the hilt to pay for an ill-concieved war??

It’s still amazing to me how the Democrats have been labeled as the spenders when 75% of today’s national debt has been created by a Republican president. The republicans NEVER present a balanced budget, let alone a surplus, put us further in debt, and then call the Dems the spenders.

People, for the last time, we can have health care both ways. We can have for-profit health care (like UPS), and socialized medicine (like the post office).

Coach-
I think you will start to see more and more support for universal healthcare from the corporations. Just look at what the current system is doing to companies like GM. It is quite odd that an auto manufacturer turns out to be the largest private provider of healthcare in this country. It makes no economic/financial sense and it’s my opinion that the corporate titans are starting to clue into this. Healthcare is infrastructure. It is a most basic necessity that benefits us all.

I must disgree, though, with your line of argument. The USPS is getting killed by private-sector alternatives. It seems less and less like a going concern to me and more like a bloated and antiquated appendage of the federal govt. I am not impressed with their ability to deliver a steady flow of junk mail into my life.

Concerning spending…Part of the reason why Bush has spent so much on defense lately is because Clinton spent so little. I was in the military during the Clinton era and even then people were talking about refurbishments that were long overdue. Iraq and Afghanistan have made matters much worse. Even if you oppose the war, I think that you must agree that if we must have a military, it should be well-equiped. Getting back to spending, though, think about home-ownership. Don’t most households operate with a considerable amount of debt in the form of their mortgages? Could businesses grow without debt? Granted, some debt is worse for others and current trends are not sustainable. But I would not be so quick to point to debt as a something to avoid.

Obama can’t take criticism. Hillary was great! He or his surrogates twist Hillary’s words, and get away with it.
He’s not running against Bill. He needs to develop a thicker hide.

Blood: I was merely using the ‘example’ of the post office as an federal industry that provides the same thing the private industry does…
Also, one thing to remember about debt: The lender ‘owns’ you. That means, China ‘owns’ us. When the lender wants their money, you lose your car, house, or country….Debt is a good thing if handled correctly, and what, if anything, has this president handled correctly?
And your inference that the country be run like a business is eerily reminding of how this country got into the tumble we’re in.

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Ole,

I believe I was defending the constraints that the USPS has to work under. Nothing more. I’m all for all you say. I don’t want trash mail and I sure don’t like that my personal information is ‘out there’ like that.

My contention, and I return to it, is that the USPS is a pawn in D.C. politics. Don’t throw out the baby with the wash water.

Finally, YOU (and I) may not ‘like’ things about the USPS but we could be in the minority.

‘Someone’ has to ‘ensure the domestic welfare.’ I doubt UPS wants that job.

Someone has to clean the stable and no one likes doing it. Getting rid of the stable, as you suggest, has merit, but I’d rather the Pols in D.C. ‘played’ with the USPS than the internet. Take away their toys and they’re going to go looking.

More realistically, it’s my belief that gov’t is there to ensure and protect. They don’t actually have to deliver the mail, but they need ensure everyone receives it and at a fair price.

Shall we discuss a gov’t military vs, say, BlackWater?

DD-
Yes, indeed, keep the govt out of the internet. I have no problem with NSA or CIA snoops doing their snooping, but this thing must not be become their regulatory playground. At the same time, I don’t want corporations deciding what I can see and what I can’t. Too much of this is already going on. Anyway, that still doesn’t convince me the USPS must go. I couldn’t give a rat’s tail about fair prices for universal mail. Let the market decide what is fair to send some artifact 1000 miles when the information content can be reproduced with extremely high fidelity through electronic channels.

Concerning private military. I think it’s a good thing and probably essential in the world we live in. The kind of missions that these contractors demands a much higher commitment than what we can expect from our volunteer soldiers who are there, for the most part, to pick up some college money, a nice uniform, see the world, and then get the fukk out asap. Contractors maintain an extremely high-degree of training and function in extreme high-risk environments. In a society as privliged as ours, the warrior culture has to make certain concessions to maintain its volunteer ranks. These concessions include certain rights and entitlements that are not compatible with the kind of missions we ask contractors to do. To be sure, our special forces are ready and willing to undertake these missions to some degree, but their are too many incentives to leave once an enlistment or commission ends. The only way to keep these guys in service is to throw lots of money at them because ultimately there are not a lot of Americans out there who want to spend the rest of their lives snooping and pooping in the desert. I feel much better knowing that these guys are out there doing that. I am sure that their are some serious potential dangers to employing private military might, but in a world where there are angry people plotting the demise of me and my culture, I am glad to know that some stone-faced warrior is paid handsomely to hunt the bastids down.

Sorry, Blood. But, I completely and fully disagree with private military being a good thing. Like any business, CEO’s look at profit margin. Without war, or tragedy, Blackwater wouldn’t be making money. So, that being said, the CEO’s are going to push for war. Are you going to let the ‘market’ regulate these industries?

I’m so sick and phucking tired of people saying that. “Let the market decide”. Isn’t that why we’re still stuck in the same 1940’s combustible engine that we’re driving around? The automobile industry is one fine example of letting the market dictate. WE want better gas mileage. But that will shrink the profit margin of both the oil and auto industries. So, has the market adjusted?? Phuck letting the market decide anything at all. That’s why we have government. Oppressing technology is NOT what government is supposed to do. Making sure oppression is nonexistent is what government IS supposed to do.

OJs Bloody Glove: One question, and one statement.

Question: Are you denying the supression of technology in the auto/oil industry?

Statement: This horrifying world full of people plotting our demise was created by our own greed. We would react the same, exact way if some other country forced their way of life (capitalism) on us.

Blood: Examples of suppression? Someone comes up with an idea to increase gas mileage by installing a gadget, that idea gets purchased by one of the automakers. It happens all the time. People that aren’t already in the auto industry are going to have to spend an insane amount of money to get a new automobile on the market. So, they end up dumping their idea to the very people that will burn it. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s real.

About terrorism, I’m one who thinks it’s about time we ask them why they hate America, and then decide whether or not their reason is valid. We don’t live there, so I don’t think we should judge their reaction to us. We’ve never had an invasion by some other country in this generation, aside from the vilification of the ‘illegal immigrants’, so I’m not entirely sure how we would react, but I’m pretty sure there would be an ‘insuregency’…

sorry guys, gotta try to find the offensive word…

That’s pretty funny, this guy either loves to eat up the corporate BS or is a paid political hack ready to defend his party’s positions regardless of how absurd they may be. Then again, it may be that the core’s brain wash job worked better than expected.

Tom Ogle made a custom made fuel delivery system that actually only used the fumes from gasoline. In a much publicized test he got about 100mpg from his system. He even got offers from car companies at first, probably for publicity because in the long run, they let it go undeveloped.
In the 1890’s Nikola Tesla developed ways of generating electricity directly from earth’s magnetism and was working on a method of wireless delivery to supplement his wireless communications technology. Look up his Dynamo Electric Machine on google patents(hell, look up all his patents, interesting stuff). He was also suppressed. Charles Pogue designed a carburator that used spiral channels and heated air to vaporize the fuel before combustion. He was bought out and additives were put in gas that actually clogged the carb so others wouldn’t follow his patents. Anytime a corporation has a monopoly on a particular industry, be it fuel, transportation, healthcare it will fight tooth and nail to prevent the status quo that has made them rich from being upset. It’s not absurd or sinister, just human nature… particularly of those that have always made their wealth off other peoples labor. It’s absurd to not regulate and prevent that part of human nature.

Your experience in the core should have taught you that when military service is a volunteer effort, the people that will join will be those that see it as their only hope for prosperity (ie. the poor) or the patriotic types that realize they don’t have the brain power to do anything else or lastly, those who truly have an interest in protecting the nation and have the smarts to go far, many of those usually get into the officer corps.
How many gang bangers did you meet? how many guys who went just to see what it’s like to kill people? would you know to recognize them? If all have been brainwashed into unity and loyalty, who will tell on those that break the rules or commit war crimes? will this type of comaradery be transported into their police jobs and allow things to happen like the cop that beat the guy shackled to a wheel chair in chicago?

perhaps you are the one thinking of them as she*ple that should simply accept that the US is supporting their oppressive regime merely for monetary gain;

or that it was the CIA that a$sasinated their version of JFK

and all the other transgressions. You see, human beings are not particles and not all of them are as easily deluded as you.

They recognize that the US has lost it’s moral compass and has allowed it’s companies to profit from near slave labor conditions rather than helping improve conditions for all. So yea, I can understand why they have radicalized against the US. You may not have done anything personally to opress them, perhaps you have without realizing it, I’m not sure what your experience in the core was, but the fact that we have been apathetic and have not shown our displeasure by mobilizing and protesting in the streets tells them all they need to know about americans commitment to the ideals expressed in the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution. I guarantee they know those ideals and what they truly mean better than any US born product of the american educational system.

PS-I think the chinese will come up with the next method of transportation, they are more interested in progress than merely profits. Personally, I’m working on a new type of turbine that if it works as expected will make people wonder why they used propellers in the first place.

Good stuff guys. So Jed, did you find what MCP was axing you for?

na, gave it up, couldn’t figure it out and didn’t want to keep trying, it was late, so I changed the sentence.

MCP has been brutal on this thread…..

Coach-
I have never been to Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan, but, starting in 1995 (right after Jerry Garcia died), I have travelled extensively in Central Asia and the Middle East – and not insulating myself from ‘normal’ folks. I’ve driven around a lot of the Central Asian former SSR’s trying to strike business deals with people – I’m talking super-small scale stuff – some guy hawking whatever he can from an ISO-container kiosk. The people I have met were more or less like us in terms of their world view. Some folks just want to be left alone to do their own thing; some want to be involved in politics so they can have a say in what gets done; some look at the USA as a shining example of what their country could be; some loathe the USA. One common trait shared by all the people I met is that they are not acting violently to express their grievences. Most of these folks had very strong opinions and will talk your ear off, given the opportunity, but they are not interested in blowing stuff up, let alone themselves. The people out there who are doing that, in my opinion, are the criminal-types. In less civil and less developed societies, this element is more of an option to adolescents who don’t see a lot of choices of how they can improve their lives and are attracted to the life of adventure, fortune and glory that these criminal gangs promise. Ultimately, ‘the radicalized’ are just a small minority and would find some other entity or ideology to lash out against, if the USA wasn’t such a convenient villian. Regardless of this fact, they are violent criminals. Of course I can only speak from my own experience, but I think that it offers some perspective that a lot of Americans don’t have.

Jed-
Yes, I met a lot of real nasty folks in the Corps. Most of the people that I met, though, were solid normal people. There were some super-patriotic-types among them, but they essentially were boringly normal folks. They represent a cross-section of American culture (at least they did when I was there). Anyway, the vast majority of them were not stupid, bloodthirsty animals. One common trait that I believe I shared with my fellow Marines is the desire to belong to something bigger than myself. I think that’s because there is so little opportunity for that in our society today. And I am not talking about brainwashing either. I am talking about contributing something to the greater good. Perhaps the military was not the best place to do this. We can argue all day about whether or not it actually is, but the sentiment is what matters. Please do not insult yourself or the people in the military by thinking the way you do about them. It’s not a Rambo flick.

Concerning technology…I have read a bit about Tesla. My dad is fascinated by the guy and I think he even made a pilgrimage to that tower on LI. I have a book about him somewhere around here, and you have reawakened my interest in him. I think he was definitely on to something, but my understanding is that his work was more or less incomplete at the time of his death (excepting some of his very real contributions like AC). This isn’t because he was supressed, it’s because he thought on a grand-scale. I agree, if that’s what your are suggesting, that we need more people who think on this scale. Again, I don’t think that his work on things like ionospheric power transmission that he was supressed, he just never fully worked it out. Concerning Tom Ogle…I don’t much about this guy and his 100mpg fuel system, but I have been hearing a lot of people talk about him lately. It smacks of BS, though, as far as I am concerned. Apart from the corny Evil Knievel persona, no one else has come out with a demonstration of this technology since his death. If a viable technology were truly being supressed, I believe that someone, somewhere, would have independently discovered it. The profit potential is just way to high; US automanufacturers would go nuts for something like this. In the end we cannot know for sure, but I choose to believe that the simplest explanation is the correct one: a viable technology never existed. A conspiracy that could suppress the vast profit motive of bringing something like this to market would have to be absolutely enormous. I just don’t believe in that kind of stuff. Let me conclude by pointing out that I do not deny the existence of vapor fuel systems. I just don’t believe that they are a VIABLE option. I believe that automakers would be employing them, if they could truly outperform conventional systems in the long run.

Blood:

While your arguments, or rebuttals, are well contrived and well put together, they’re based on your ‘assumption’, or littered with the word “my opinion”. The facts are this: Our military is scattered all over the world. In these other countries, dissenters are called ‘insurgents’, or ‘radicals’. All I’m saying is that WE WOULD DO THE EXACT SAME THING if somebody tried to invade us. Have you ever lived anywhere in the United States that had any other form of military running the city? No. We NEVER HAVE. So, for that matter, doesn’t it seem a bit pretentious to call them criminal when they’re just fighting back against us on their own soil?

You can, and will, have your own opinion regarding these ‘insurgents’ that are fighting back against the U.S. But, remember, we’re (always) in someone else’s country.

Coach,

Well put. Ole is right to attribute ‘responsibility’ to the individual, but that oversimplifies the dynamics human social behavior. Just as, for example, young blacks turn against authority in this country, When all about you is demonstrated the good life, but you are not a part of it, is not your nose being rubbed in it? Aren’t you being challenged, so to speak?

With the proliferation of the internet and satellite TV, the rest of the world is seeing, up close and personal, just how good Americans have it and how pitiful is their life in comparison.

So, the ‘haves,’ us, are revealing to the ‘have nots,’ most of the rest of the world, just how good we have it and how bad they have it. Worse, the only ‘ambassadors’ from America they see are soldiers invading their holy lands, dispensing mayhem and chaos.

What options are left to them? You back even the gentlest of dogs into a corner, and it WILL bite you. Of course, if your intent all along was to shoot the dog, you can now do so with a clear conscience. Damned thing!!

Coach/DD-
“What options are left to them?”
“So, the ‘haves,’ us, are revealing to the ‘have nots,’ most of the rest of the world, just how good we have it and how bad they have it.”

You folks are the one’s who are oversimplifying things. You assume that satellite TV is some conduit that pumps American culture into the livingroom’s of the world and forces people to be confronted with a choice to accept it or deny it. Have you ever stayed up all night watching Uzbek TV? Have you spent an afternoon trying to determine which Turkish music video station would be the most entertaining? Have you ever tried to follow a Georgian reality TV show? Have you ever watched a Lebanese cooking program? A Syrian soap opera? If you have answered yes to any of these questions, then you are aware that most people living in the Middle East and Central Asia are much more interested in getting on with their lives the same way that us Westerners do. Most people could give a rats arse about something as abstract as US foreign policy. When I think about US forces scattered throughout the world, the first three examples that come to mind are Germany, Japan and S. Korea. These are three of the most prosperous economies in the world and the people enjoy high standards of living. You folks are naive to an extreme if you think that the criminal elements that are perpetrating terrorist acts in the Middle East and Asia are freedom fighters or something high and mighty like that. They are crime syndicates that attract aggressive people who feel entitled to lord over people. The same thing happens in the ghetto here. It’s not so much an act of rebellion so much it is a sense of entitlement. It’s just too easy for people to pick up a gun, instead learning how to take apart an engine or code C++. Discpline and principles are the key to success in any place and any time – the ultimate inconvenient truth, if you will. In civil societies there are disincentives in place that tamp down the impulses and impact of the undisciplined and unprincipled. Unfortunately, there are many places in the world where the undisciplined and unprincipled can quickly prosper. Criminality is a cultural phenomenon that draws people who might have perfectly legitimate ambitions, but lack the personal, familial and cultural motivation to develop the discipline and principles required to achieve that ambition. The lack of the civil society is what allows for this criminal culture to take root. Go have a look around in the world before you decide that the US is the big villian you claim. Certainly the US makes gargantuan policy errors on a consistent basis, but this is not what is creating the specific motivation to self-detonate or fly jetliners into office buildings. People who do this are the twisted pawns of people who profit by destabilization of budding civil societies. Do not be fooled that the majority of the people who support terrorist organizations are acting on some overblown concept of justice.

Ole,

Well put. But I don’t think I discounted your premise. Merely didn’t want to leave any stone unturned. What makes people ‘do things’ is far too complicated to say that they are ‘bad’ or that they are ‘jealous.’ I know you know that.

Stir testosterone, egos and anger into the mix and you have a complicated mess that defies simple analysis.

So, are the ‘terrorists’ just mafia wannabes? Probably so. But what conditions bred the opportunity for these ‘ganstas’ to proliferate and who in the world was most able to prevent them from ‘happening’ and, perversely, did the most to propagate them?

Sure, the Amerindians scalped ’settlers.’ But who taught them that ‘trick?’ Frenchmen offering bounties. Savagery is born from savagery. If you are afraid to assume some responsibility for what happens in the world, then you can expect the worst.

Don’t look now, but here it comes.

Concerning scalping, I think the key is that whoever taught Amerindians to scalp people first is of far less consequence in light of the fact that they also taught it to each other.

Concerning the “conditions [that] bred the opportunity for these ‘ganstas’ to proliferate” I believe that this is complicated, but it essentially boils down to the way these countries of been ruled and administrated; these have traditionally been closed societies. The Caliphates were societies of privlige that stifled innovation, and culminated (if you can call it that) with the Ottomans who ruled over ‘the sick man of Europe’ until WWI put an end to their failed state. Under the several decaudes of Brit and French colonial administration, people in this part of the world hardly did better; more importantly, though, had the caliphates not failed them FOR CENTURIES, colonial rule might never have happened. Post WWII, states whose populations are predominantly Muslim have returned to autocratic closed societies instead of seeking to emulate liberal democratic states of Europe and America – or creating something unique on their own. Instead the area is highly factionalized and smarting with the knowledge that they are years behind in developing the cultural and economic institutions capable of integrating with the global economy. These closed societies offer little opportunity to people growing up outside of the ruling elite. The US has contributed to these conditions by propping up states like Saudi Arabia and formerly Iran. However, this is far less significant than the fact that Muslims have a very long and ongoing history of oppressing each other. Do not be fooled by the false logic that suggests the US is to blame. The Caliphate(s) is THE historical condition responsible for radical Islam in the modern world. The cultural legacies of this closed society are preventing the Muslim world from integrating with Modernity and thereby disseminating prosperity to a greater number of people.