Obama ‘08
Pelosi ‘16

:)

Jeez, NOW it took it, albeit in pieces. I think. Sorry All.

To my way of thinking, most unions are no different than the arsholes in D.C. But if THOSE arsholes had truly applied some of the maxims outlined in the DOI and Constitution, unions might have never been needed (an altruistic outlook, to be sure).

Aside: I can’t find ‘polygot’ anywhere. Where did I get that?

Companies hired ‘goons,’ often the local police, to terrorize union activists. The unions had little recourse but to develop into armies themselves. To be successful, an army can NOT be a polygot. It requires discipline and hierarchy. To survive, the unions became so and so followed the axiom: power corrupts.

The U.S. government turned a blind eye to these doings and it wasn’t until the reformers created a united front against the abuses that change was implemented. A lot of people suffered and died in the process and if it hadn’t had been for Roosevelt I, the process might have taken far longer. Even so, the improvement of conditions was slow and begrudging.

The Civil War did NOT abolish slavery, it merely redefined it, broadened it, in fact, to include blacks, immigrants and people of ‘low station’. They may no longer have been chattel, but things were unchanged for most in this country. At least in the industrial sector of life.

Okay, I’m gonna ’step through it’ to see if I can find out what it doesn’t like.

Horrified,

I’m awful on civics but have a keen interest in the history of this country. In the beginning of the 20th Century, Industrial Revolution time, governments in general and the federal in particular had a defined bias in support of the business community. These were the times of the sweat shops, a time of long hours, unsafe conditions, brutality, low pay and zero benefits. It was a time of a class system, plain and simple.

Well, MCP (Tim?) doesn’t seem to have liked my last post. I’ll try to sneak it through again.

Horrified,

I’m awful on civics but have a keen interest in the history of this country. In the beginning of the 20th Century, Industrial Revolution time, governments in general and the federal in particular had a defined bias in support of the business community. These were the times of the sweat shops, a time of long hours, unsafe conditions, brutality, low pay and zero benefits. It was a time of a class system, plain and simple.

The Civil War did NOT abolish slavery, it merely redefined it, broadened it, in fact, to include blacks, immigrants and people of ‘low station’. They may no longer have been chattel, but things were unchanged for most in this country. At least in the industrial sector of life.

The U.S. government turned a blind eye to these doings and it wasn’t until the reformers created a united front against the abuses that change was implemented. A lot of people suffered and died in the process and if it hadn’t had been for Roosevelt I, the process might have taken far longer. Even so, the improvement of conditions was slow and begrudging.

Companies hired ‘goons,’ often the local police, to terrorize union activists. The unions had little recourse but to develop into armies themselves. To be successful, an army can NOT be a polygot. It requires discipline and hierarchy. To survive, the unions became so and so followed the axiom: power corrupts.

To my way of thinking, most unions are no different than the arsholes in D.C. But if THOSE arsholes had truly applied some of the maxims outlined in the DOI and Constitution, unions might have never been needed (an altruistic outlook, to be sure).
+++++++++++++++++++
A side: I can’t find ‘polygot’ anywhere. Where did I get that?

MCP has I already submitted that one. I’ll give it a while before I try again. Damned thing!!

??? Posted a response and now it’s gone. ??? Will try again and if I ‘dupe,’ I apologize profusely.

DirtyDennis, thanks for your comment. I’ve never lived in a state that caucused either, but I agree with you about caucuses. I naively romanticized them before this year - who could argue with such an ideal venue for encouraging neighbors to exchange their ideas and values? It seemed so democratic. And yet it really does not seem to work out that way in practice. People feel pressures from their families, friends, and coworkers of a kind that you don’t see in secret ballots.

I am curious about your comment that proper government regulation of industry would reduce our need for unions, though. It’s been a while since I took civics, but I believe I remember that Western Europe had much higher union participation than the U.S., despite their more tightly-regulated industry. I apologize for my ignorance of labor politics, but it seems that European workers are better-protected than we are in America, so what is it that their unions are offering?

Horrified,

Tnx for sharing that with us. Your tale has multiple messages, not the least of which the road to hell is paved with good intentions, assuming the original intent to allow voting at the work site was, indeed, ‘good.’ Methinks some of the supporters (HRC folks?) thought it was to their advantage, but the idea was good.

What does NOT seem so good is caucusing. I’ve never lived in a state that had it and always had secret ballots so don’t know it from Adam, but it sure seems UNsecret.

It would seem that parties, like unions, have gotten too big for their britches. It’s become more what the unions and parties want than what the people want.

We wouldn’t need unions if the gov’t REALLY protected workers and we could weaken parties some with public campaign financing.

the human race is essentially a vast experiment created by ancient extraterrestrial astronauts for purposes unknown - in effect; for the experiment to be ultimately ’successful’; we must all ‘get along’ so to speak…

> NOTE: long ago i did not understand why race riots occurred, i just thought they were small societal fires that somehow got out of control and spread into wildfire - but now i realize that the various race riots and unrest our country has experienced over that last century have been generated purposefully to destabilize diverse democratic voting blocs, and create necessary distraction chaos…why else would federal agents swarm into the new speaker of the house’s territory [nancy pelsoi] and haul off several african-americans in a high profile set of arrests? - come on, i’m not stupid!…

but! with knowledge of this purposeful activity on the part of ‘the illuminati’, we can all learn to not let it dominate the mainstream media, and therefore subvert the federal government’s evil and subversive motives…

subvert the dominant paradigm, i say!…

This is why the democrates lose the campain is focused on the slightest thing. She wimpered he was snippy, let’s hope the republicans act like grown ups and send up McCain or someone I can vote for.

When these campaigns began, I was a Hillary supporter since I bought the whole line about her being the “presumptive nominee,” but I am not a Hillary supporter any more. I’ve always had trouble with her tendency to position herself according to the political climate of the day.

I’ve come to realize that in Obama, we have a candidate who speaks and acts from conviction instead of from political positioning. We also have the opportunity to make history by electing a visionary person as president who will actually reach across the political divide and unite this country instead of further galvanizing political divides, as Hillary does.

Those of you who are considering supporting Hillary should remember just how polarizing of a figure she is. While Obama attracts the support of independents and some Republicans, Hillary only attracts the support of Democrats. In national surveys, half of respondents say they would not vote for her–that’s not a very good starting place.

After her behind-the-scenes smears of Obama and Bill’s junk-yard-dog attacks in this campaign, I’m so sick of her antics that McCain, a Republican, would be a more attractive candidate to this Democratic voter than Hillary would be. I would surely vote for Obama against McCain or any other Republican. If you want a Democrat in the White House in 2008, vote for Barack Obama,who can actually unite this country!

Many of you Obama supporters are being ‘played’ big time. Pay attention, folks and stop accusing Hillary of playing dirty tricks - its the other way around.

It was the Obama campaign that first started the ‘race card’. Heck, didn’t you watch or listen to the debate when Russert pulled out the four page ‘talking points’ that the Obama campaign was using against Hillary? Use you head here - why didn’t race come up in Iowa or NH? Hmmm…?? Why did it only come up when the campaign focus moved to SC and Nevada? Do you think the Clinton’s are so stupid to do this AFTER NH or Iowa?

The Clinton’s are blamed for the Teachers Union lawsuit? Ok — but the Obama campaign is NOT responsible for the nasty (racially motivated) radio ads, huh?

The media and the Obama campaign are playing you all like a harp. I guess we didn’t learn anything with the millions spent going after the Clinton’s in the 90’s that resulted in NOTHING more than a marital affair.

My vote is with Hillary !

Obama’s starting to show his true colors.

He’s just another liar who knows how to spin “pretty lies”.

Is accusing someone of being racict because she makes a truthful statement that LBJ signed the civil rights act a new kind of politics? Is running negative ads the “new politics” obama will bring? Why can’t people see the hypocrisy?

enough, already Billary. I’m tired of the victim act. I almost thought I would vote for you come general election time. You remind me of the shame and pain or your white house days. Always some questions of dirty tricks, always some scandal, always something. Enough already.

No more Bushes. No more Clintons. Please America, give someone else a chance to run our country. Obama, Edwards, McCain, even Huckabee. Anybody but these two clowns.

Wake up, all you Hillary supporters, and admit to yourselves that she is just not the right person for this job.
Can’t you see that even if she wins the nomination, the BEST thing we democrats could hope for would be a close, extremely bitterly contested general election that would turn all the repubs into obsessive political activists to fight against their avowed enemy-Hillary.
And even a victory-which would be highly unlikely-would result in division and gridlock like never seen before. Be realistic-Obama is the right person for this time and for this job.

What is his name!!!! shame on HEURTA.

It goes to show the kind of bigotry that other ethnic groups exhibit. It also goes to show the kind of ignorant black and Latino people the Clintons cultivate.

Hillary Clinton is showing the world what she is about. She sends their surrogates to do the dirty tricks and add some herself and the biggest co-canAdidate,her husband included.

It is so unfair and unseemly for the ex-president to involve himself this way. Mr. Obama is competing against two candidates (Bill Clinton, the undeclared candidate) and also Mr. Edwards.

How come the newsmedia does not point out this unfairness???

The country will be better off not to have Hillary and Clintons again.
Sunday is the anniversary of Monica Lewinsky scandal, wonder how many remember that sordid affair.

I am for Obama to turn a leaf from these two tired couple. We need change and someone who can address all the issues facing the country.

In the meantime, I am disgusted by the Clintons.

What is his name!!?

Bigotry comes from all ethnicities. Shame on Heurta! But then these are the kinds of idiotic black and latino people the Clinton’s cultivate.

Hillary Clinton is showing the world what she is about. She sends their surrogates to do the dirty tricks and add some herself and the biggest co-canAdidate,her husband included.

It is so unfair and unseemly for the ex-president to involve himself this way. Mr. Obama is competing against two candidates (Bill Clinton, the undeclared candidate) and also Mr. Edwards.

How come the newsmedia does not point out this unfairness???

The country will be better off not to have Hillary and Clintons again.
Sunday is the anniversary of Monica Lewinsky scandal, wonder how many remember that sordid affair.

I am for Obama to turn a leaf from these two tired couple. We need change and someone who can address all the issues facing the country.

In the meantime, I am disgusted by the Clintons.

It makes me sick to see how DESPERATE Hillary Clinton has become. She gave women a bad reputation when she didn’t divorce Bill. But now she is trying to insult her way to the top, just like she did in the New Hampshire causus. She didn’t state very many facts she just kept trying to degrade everyone else. GO OBAMA!

I used to be Clinton admirer but after seeing the Bush Dynasty, I changed my mind. I would republican if Hillary is representing. I wish it was another woman who ran for presidency rather than Hillary. It is too bad. Note: this country needs new thinking. China, India Korea are becoming more powerful and we are stuck in Iraq by spending money from our grandchildren. Let us wake up and change direction.

It’s a shame. 9.9 out of 10 times that we see headlines implying Clinton & Obama having a nasty spat, etc., it’s really just her. Obama’s not playing her game. The problem is that she owns the media. Show your support for Barack Obama. barackstar08.com

The country is tired of running a family type presidency, this is the time we CHANGE the course to a new and different direction be it Obama, Edward or Huckabee. any candidate apart from these three folks we be a continuation of the present administration, which implies recession and posible hyper inflation for the country. Everyone must prepare and stay alert, we dont know what we happen eventually, join the winning team.

After all that we’ve seen of the manipulation of people’s emotions by Bush and Rove, why would anyone believe the stuff the Clinton campaign is putting out there? These people are tired old politics of the past. The stuff that got this country into the mess it’s in. I want a president that is straight with us. No more games please. OBAMA 08!

Obama & Clinton are accusing each other like child & who will get benifit from this is republicans. In my opinion USA citizens should know that eventhough obama & clinton are from same democratic party but how much difference of opinion??? Should same part candidate have so much difference???

I think we’ve seen enough dirty tactics by the Clinton campaign in the last couple of weeks to be skeptical of what comes out of it.

But if any of the Culinary Union members have been putting such pressure on their members - then shame on them, not shame on Obama. I’m sure that would be the last thing he would want people to be doing.

But you’ve also got to understand that the Clinton campaign has consistently been behind attacks against the union, from trying to shut down the caucuses and disenfranchise the workers, to supporters suggesting union workers are ‘illegals’ (racist smears), and now that Union is fighting back and playing hardball with it.

Ray, the longer Edwards stays in the race the better. I am not sure about your suspicion that he will support Hillary — not much love lost there! Regardless, I am hopeful that the nation will come to its senses and recognize not only what is best for us but best for the world. Hillary is where she is on account of who she is married to. Most won’t want to hear that, but it’s truth!

Here Here! I am a woman and can say that the last woman I want representing me is Hillary Clinton. I do not understand why someone votes based on gender, race, etc. I know Nevada will be close but I am hoping for a close race that will ride us through to SC!

Obama 2008!!!!

Good post Nina. it looks like Ed wards will suppport Hillary when He drops out, the sooner He faces reality the better even if He makes the wrong endorsment.

Women, please use your brains and hearts, not your gender.

Bush, Clinton, Bush and Clinton again? Why? Because she’s a woman? Let’s use our brains people! America has over 300 million citizens and two families that pretend to dislike each other, Bushes and Clintons, have ruled for nearly 30 years.

Save democracy, vote different - be it for McCain, Obama, Edwards, Romney or Huckabee…vote different, vote democracy.

This is not surprising at all coming from the Clintons! They’ve been using third world tactics to try and hack down their political rivals for years.

I’m a denocrat, but I’ll sooner vote for the Republicans that George Bush’s re-incarnation, the Clintons.

The Clinton camp’s actions in NH (the reproductive rights flyers) and NV (Culinary voter suppression) really make me uncomfortable. The establishment seems to be pushing the idea that you’ve got to prove yourself to be this sort of dirty trickster to have a chance at the nomination, and that’s totally off-putting to voters. Who wants to be part of a system that rewards brazen liars?

On the other hand, Obama seems to have stayed pretty clear of the filthy politics. I like his platform and I like his ideals, and while I’m told I should vote with my gender… No. There’ll be other women who run for the White House; there’s no reason we should settle for the first one who comes along, especially if she takes this tired, old political tone.