Our government is no longer for the people and until it is again, rule of law means little. Simply by ignoring us and continuing their plans, the neocon element that is doing much of this can get away with murder. The fact that they are not yet in jail makes this point self evident. This government won’t even try to lawfully charge these men. Our Constitution is slowly giving way to their lies and our apathy.

dont look for any action from the international system either…the geneva convention died at the hands of the North Vietnamese, who were singnees, 40 or so odd years ago…and at the hand of the Cambodians, and Rwandans, and in Yugoslavia…oh wait, it seems the geneva conventions were never worth a crap anyway…like anything associated with the UN

again, i dont know why this is so surprising, presidents have been doing stuff of this magnitude for years…its like the people tim puts up here have suddenly realized the world is not flat or something…you dont say!

Merkwur..

You say presidents torture all the time? Did you mean U.S. presidents or were you saying that the U.S. government is at the same moral level as the Khymer Rouge (which is now being finally brought to trial for war crimes)? If you did mean U.S. presidents, then which U.S. presidents have tortured? None. You sound like a neoconservative by implying that Bush is just like everyone else. Bush is not just like everyone else. He is just like Pol Pot, a dictator who died without being persecuted for his crimes.

Jed,

Stop protecting neoconservatives by confusing their causing the war in Iraq and their attempt to bomb Iran with domestic companies lobbying for domestic rules. You are doing so intentionally and you know it. Stop protecting neoconservatives. Apparently you agree with parts of their agenda?

it all depends on how you constitute torture…i consider torture having your ribs kicked in, fingernails ripped out, electrodes placed on one’s genitals until they explode, being skinned alive, having acid thrown on you, having your head sawn off with a dull knife…

as far as one can tell, bush has ordered none of this…he has ordered a procedure that is regularly used on special forces and CIA personnel as part of their training…if its done under the supervision of professionals, and there is no other option, i have no problem with it…as for which presidents have “tortured”…well the School of the Americas has been open 1946 to 1986 meaning that all presidents since then have known/approved of its existence…as if the notion to torture people suddenly originated into Bush’s head sometime in 03

but to clarify yes, at a fundamental level, the US and the Khmer Rouge are fundamentally the same on the world stage–each state will act to their own best interests according to their size, power, and status in the global anarchic system…each state is driven by the machiavellian principle of amorality at the international level…one has to, or else a state doesnt have sovereignty for very long, there is always another state out there who will knock you off, given the chance

but really, if you think bush is like Pol Pot, then i’d love to have what you’re smoking…such breathless hyperbole is a great disservice to the left, just like the cons did with clinton…bush may be incompetent, but he’s not evil (hell, he has less than a year left)

I’m actually quite interested in the coincidences here.

According to the NYTimes, “current and former” officials disclosed that the CIA destroyed tapes in 2005.

This comes out days after the intelligence communities release the NIE saying Iran is not pursuing nuclear weapons?

The conspiracy theorist in me-a piece which has been borne our more than not since this terror of an administration-wonders.

Could someone in the administration have leaked the CIA tapes story to throw a blanket of doubt on the intelligence community-including the CIA-so as to discredit them after the NIE report? In order to discredit the report itself?

IT wouldn’t be beneath Cheney and the neocons to do just that.

Merkwurb…

The United States of America is nothing like the Khmer Rouge regime. The U.S. is a country of laws which this president has repeatedly broken and for which he needs to be brought to justice. The U.S. is a country that abides by the rules of war such as the Geneva conventions which this president has repeatedly violated and for which he needs to be brought to justice. The sole reason this country is great is that it supposedly holds rich and poor, powerful and weak, to the same notion of justice.

And you must be smoking something incredible to contend that Bush is not like Pol Pot and yet he runs a country similar to the Khmer Rouge Cambodia. This crack addled concept can be destroyed simply by prosecuting Bush for the war crimes he committed. It is time for the U.S. to stand as the moral leader of the world again by showing we truly are a just country. We must prosecute George W. Bush for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Let him defend.

i never said it was ok, it is merely the global hegemon execising its power as such

as the current “top dog” so to speak, the US can set and break the rules at its leisure. After all, who is going to stop us? Who will punish us? What would our punishment be? How would it be carried out? The US is merely acting in its interests according to its size, power, and global aims…when the next hegemon comes around, history will repeat itself…the historical inevitability of the strong doing what they will and the weak doing what they must has played out time and time again

global hegemon’s have done this for centuries…the cruel facts of life…the truth may be harsh, but that doesnt make it any less true…and i hate to break it to you, but genocide has already happened here (ever heard of what happened to the Native Americans?), and if it does, nothing would happen, at least the UN has a track record there…of inaction

Just ask the native americans.

It’s sad when a great nation like the US determines it’s behaviour on what others do or don’t do. Seems to me we are the higher power that should set the example. We should be the ones that act correctly, regardless of what others are doing or how we would be perceived. If you wait till the rest of the world starts reforesting to start doing it yourself it will never be done, is that what you are hoping for? death through apathy? We must be the ones that are above torturing people because we want to set the example for others to behave accordingly. I’d much rather be a source for good energy and good behaviour than a standard for following the negative things that make life more difficult.

I realize most of you disdain religion outright without much understanding of the concepts or the reasons behind their creation. One thing that seems common amongst most of the religions… do well by others, be generous, courteous and kind in your dealings with others and life will be peaceful. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself, even when you’ve made some mistakes, it shows your capacity for compassion and will lead others to treat you in kind. In short, positive and friendly attitude in life and business leads to prosperity and growth. Acrimony, greed, insults and empty rethoric lead to decay and eventually self destruction.

America, being the ‘christian’ nation it claims to be, should be averse to all the tactics being used by this administration. Those that understand what the ancient cultures were concerned with when they studied those subjects know that the actions of this administration acts in synchronicity with the aims of the enemy of humanity.

JU$t @$k the n@tive @meric@n$.

It’$ $@d when @ gre@t n@tion like the U$ determine$ it’$ beh@viour on wh@t other$ do or don’t do. $eem$ to me we @re the higher power th@t $hould $et the ex@mple. We $hould be the one$ th@t @ct correctly, reg@rdle$$ of wh@t other$ @re doing or how we would be perceived. If you w@it till the re$t of the world $t@rt$ refore$ting to $t@rt doing it your$elf it will never be done, i$ th@t wh@t you @re hoping for? de@th through @p@thy? We mu$t be the one$ th@t @re @bove torturing people bec@u$e we w@nt to $et the ex@mple for other$ to beh@ve @ccordingly. I’d much r@ther be @ $ource for good energy @nd good beh@viour th@n @ $t@nd@rd for following the neg@tive thing$ th@t m@ke life more difficult.

I re@lize mo$t of you di$d@in religion outright without much under$t@nding of the concept$ or the re@$on$ behind their cre@tion. One thing th@t $eem$ common @mong$t mo$t of the religion$… do well by other$, be generou$, courteou$ @nd kind in your de@ling$ with other$ @nd life will be pe@ceful. Tre@t other$ @$ you would like to be tre@ted your$elf, even when you’ve m@de $ome mi$t@ke$, it $how$ your c@p@city for comp@$$ion @nd will le@d other$ to tre@t you in kind. In $hort, po$itive @nd friendly @ttitude in life @nd bu$ine$$ le@d$ to pro$perity @nd growth. @crimony, greed, in$ult$ @nd empty rethoric le@d to dec@y @nd eventu@lly $elf de$truction.

@meric@, being the ‘chri$ti@n’ n@tion it cl@im$ to be, $hould be @ver$e to @ll the t@ctic$ being u$ed by thi$ @dmini$tr@tion. Tho$e th@t under$t@nd wh@t the @ncient culture$ were concerned with when they $tudied tho$e $ubject$ know th@t the @ction$ of thi$ @dmini$tr@tion @ct$ in $ynchronicity with the @im$ of the enemy of hum@nity.

Merk,

The top dog can do whatever it wants? Does this mean you were against the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when that decade’s “top dog” was impeached by right wing fascists? Of course not.

What you are is a republican with a pathetic authoritarian personality who is trying to absolve a criminal of guilt because you share his ideology. Bush broke the law and he needs to be brought to justice. We should not rest until he wears an orange jumpsuit and is known only as a number for the rest of his days.

Imagine Hillary rounding up evangelicals and waterboarding them because they’re a threat to her. Would you say anything then, turd blossom?

i’m a libertarian, and i could have given a crap less about what clinton did in the oval office with some fat intern, and has little to no bearing with the discussion at hand…now his policies are another matter

foam all you want, but getting bush is not the end of the game…he is merely a symptom of a greater system that has existed long before either you or i were born

you want bush in jumpsuit…fine. i guess in your fantasy world sh*t stops stinking, dogs and cats live in total harmony, and everything sunshiny all damn day…wake up…besides, pragmatism dictates that nothing will happen, in the real world what one wants rarely happens

i could really care less if bush is impeached or not, because in keeping with Weberian philosophy the overall government superstructure is still the same, and thus its actions remain unfazed…so the “top dog” is the US in general, because, Repub or Dem, each party has their own view of how the US should run the world…the overall mechanism of government could really care less about who’s in charge

in terms of your hillary scenario, its the double standard of the world system– states are amoral at an international level, but not necessarily so at the domestic, so while plausible, hillary would be more likely to round up someone from another country

so, boo-yah ass clown, suck on that

yea, that guy was terrible, Imagine a president that tries to get the budget into balance. Or that can get consensus from both sides of the aisle, reduce people’s dependance on welfare, get things done in congress. yes he was so bad that instead of allowing him to self destruct the repubes under Newt resorted to the tactics of the ‘grand obstructionist party’ to the extent that they forced government to be shut down. They even attempted to impeach the man over a personal affair because he ‘lied’. Yet a president that has been proven time and again to go as far as distorting scientific documents commissioned by the people in order to mislead doesn’t deserve at least a realistic debate in the peoples house on the matter. your level of hypocresy is inconceivable.

But I guess your logic fits, since everyone else is rolling in filth and eatin sh*t, we should be better rollers and eat more sh*t than the worst of them.

CONGRATULATIONS!!! YOUR DEMON HAS DONE IT’S JOB WELL. KEEP WORKING FOR THE DETRIMENT OF THE WHOLE RATHER THAN THE BENEFIT OF ALL. YOU’RE A STAR!!!

Merkwurb…,

If you were a true libertarian you would object to Bush’s numerous blatant violations of the U.S. constitution, including warrantless eavesdropping, disregard of ratified treaties including the Geneva Conventions, using public monies to intervene internationally, etc…

That you don’t proves you’re not a libertarian, merely a pathetic republican authoritarian supporting his failure of a “president.” Just like a tag along wannabe person. You barely deserve the distinction of being human.

Your Hillary Clinton answer is pathetic and utterly irrelevant. That she might be more likely to waterboard fascist foreigners doesn’t meant she won’t waterboard domestic fascist evangelicals. According to your philosophy, you’d support her in that simply because she’s “top dog,” the same way you are apologizing for Bush torturing people simply because he’s “top dog.” Your pathetic attempt to shield Bush by saying it’s the U.S. and not him that’s responsible is laughable, as the U.S. public has never voted on the issue of torture, Bush has falsely assumed it is part of his inherent presidential responsibilities.

The reason to put Bush in an orange jumpsuit, lock him up and throw the key away is to DETER FUTURE PRESIDENTS FROM DOING THE SAME THING. That you are too ignorant and mentally deficient to see this speaks volumes as you are a representative of the Republican Party.

So booyah. Suck on that, ass clown. While you’re at it you can commit suicide, since no one on this earth-let alone the United States of America-wants you here. Loser.

christ in heaven, you’re the moron kid…its the way things are, not the way i want them to be…as i stated getting bush wont really solve anything becuase the entire governmental structure is still broken…are we still clear pointy head?

if your naive, or retarded, enough, and im still not fully sure which, that getting bush will solve all of the worlds, and our problems, then wait until a democrat is elected in november…i tend to view whomever in power in the current setup, dem or repub, as the same side of the corrupt coin, but just impeaching bush isnt the answer, its the cheap, kneejerk, get revenge for clinton kinda crap thats been floating around since 2000– you really want change boy? open up our electoral system to more parties, and start curbing unwanted govt intrusion into peoples lives, security and social

you would actually read my posts before foaming back how im an authoritarian republican (and trust me, if bush is your vision of arch-evil authoritarianism, then you wouldnt know true authoritarianism if it sh*tted in your corn flakes)…i’m just telling it like it is, doesnt mean that i want it to be that way, but that still doesnt change facts.

how about entire governmental reform, sh*t for brains? at least my party stands for that (libertarian)…all you seem to stand for is insults…you have yet to tell me where you really stand, though you seem to be another angry lefty, hell you’re not even a fun one like Jed, who gets all psuedo-mystical and thinks i’m possessed

care for another round, douche magnet? Or maybe you can end your life and do me a favor

Well, Merk, I see you’re at it again. Bush needs to get busted to deter people in the future. Do you think the pardon of Nixon and North did wonders for our government? This administration worked in the Nixon and Reagan administrations, and have seen how to get away with murder, literally. They realize that they won’t get in any trouble. Do you think commuting Libby was a good idea for government.

And, here’s the difference in parties: Repuglickans have been lying and decieving about war for the last 25 years. Democrats lie about bleauxjobs and securities exchanges. Thing is, millions of people die in war. Nobody dies during a bleauxjob.

Someone must go down, pardon the pun, from this administration. Otherwise, the next repukelickan group will be worse than this one…….

Coach,Less brains Johnson lied about Vietnam. He was a Democrat.