Hey, listen I think it’s great to be involved in the enviroment, we really have got to stop poisoning our water supplies, and we have got to make sure that we don’t kill off every animal in the ecosystems.

But the evidence does not point to “greenhouse gases” especially CO2, as the culprit. For instance, one volcanic eruption, of which there are many in a year, releases more CO2 that all human activities combined. On top of that, there’s decaying plant matter. On top of that, there’s CO2 release from the oceans. So in reality, humans contribute an insignificant portion to the atmosphere, too little to do harm.

The real cause is in the Sun’s Activity. There’s a direct correlation between sun activity and temperature. The CO2 levels are normally behind the curve by about 400 years.

If you don’t believe me, Google Video search “The Global Warming Swindle”. No, it’s not a conspiracy theory film. It presents scientific evidence very straight and objectively.

I think that we should be concentrating on time on something that’s not a dead end. Like pollution, actually pollution, that will eventually poison the earth. Nuclear waste, industrial by-products, etc. Not the false threat of CO2.

Still, the issue is the lies our leaders are trying to shove down our throats. I remember about a month ago, the white house heavily edited another environmental report of some kind. We need truth, no matter what causes most of the global warming. Even if humans are not a significant factor, we must insist on honesty from our government.

Absolutely, I agree that they need to stop lying.

“All I want is the truth. Just gimme some truth”

Yea, it’s the sun. in the last 3 thousand years it has shined with .00000003% more intensity and we expect it will change another miniscule amount in the next 30 thousand.(!!!??!!??!!??)

It never ceases to amaze me how we fall for the tyniest evidence of probable cause and run with it and imagine our analysis is complete and we must act on it unwaveringly, regardless of how erroneus it may be or is proven to be in the future.
It’s even worse when an industry that has a vested interest in keeping production of pollutants elevated starts funding ‘alternative’ theories in order to maintain the status quo.

How do you think the destruction of the forests, the greatest carbon sink and the best way to keep the ground cool, relates to global warming?
Is there much difference between the temperatures of a piece of cement in the sun and a piece of cement shaded by a tree? (about 15 to 20 degrees)
Would the poisons being dumped into our rivers and killing the offshore kelp beds (another excelent carbon sink) contribute to the inability to reabsorb the carbon as is naturally done after volcanic events?

this report is just another indication that this administration cannot be trusted with anything. Time and again they have shown themselves to be selfish, dishonest, vindictive, conniving and obstructive. We cannot expect anything to be resolved or even given a serious analysis and debate. This report is merely another indication in a long list of evidence that would make the founding fathers cringe and wonder why the american people are so reluctant to use the devices that where written into the constitution to remove a tyrant from power.

Want to solve the climate change problem? start acting as if earth is a living being that has a deadly virus decimating it’s life force. Start by replenishing the forests that have been stripped clean from the earth over the last couple of centuries. Stop the senseless destruction of natural river systems. Dams destroy the natural flow of water and are unnecessary. Stop dumping your filth into the waters, you wouldn’t want somebody to sh*t in your blood, would you?
Go back and revisit the information that can help us to recover the health of the planet as we would want for ourselves. Viktor Schauberger’s theories deserve at least the investigation he gave them, so they can be proved right or wrong and then implemented.
Tesla’s project for cheap electricity (the magnifying transmitter) from the earth’s magnetic field must be allowed to be developed and implemented for the sake of our planet and our grandchildren.
Let’s internalize the Native American credo,’think how you will affect the next 7 generations with the things that you do today’. If the Hindu’s are right, you may be making life more bearable for your next lifetime.

jed, were the hell does all this stuff happen that you talk about? it happens in place beyond our control, in place like China, India, Mexico, Brazil, etc, etc…countries that are rapidly industrializing with little or no concern to the environment…what are we going to do, ask china pretty please with sugar on top to stop decimating forest and polluting the atmoshpere in the name of a roaring economy? i can imagine where they’ll tell us to shove it

Stop the natural flooding of the river systems? Tell that to the millions Banghladeshi’s who die every year, or the hundreds of thousands of people displaced every time the Mississippi floods, or the dams that power most of the northeast and the Tenessee Valley

i brought up a point like ol grizzledram’s a while ago…like he said, its not conspiracy nuts, but real scientists who seem to know a hell of a lot more about solar radiation and its affects on this planet than either of us…its incredibly arrogant for any scientist to say that they know were the world is going in even 10 years when one can’t tell what the weather will be on any given day, anywhere on the earth, with absolute certainty

this is not to say that we shouldnt invest in cleaner energy sources, if only for security reasons, or that we should dump whatever we want, when we want…

besides every ten years or so its something different– in the 70s (when we had a lot fewer pollution controls) we were headin for the new ice age, in the 80s flourocarbons were going to melt the ozone off…neither happened, so i’ll remain skeptical until otherwise…just let cooler heads prevail, and let prudence dictate for the moment

doh, i should have added that none of that changes the fact that the Bush administration lied about something, again

but then again, Gore also fudged a few “facts” in An Inconvenient Truth, so one bad turn deserves another, one supposes

doh, i should have added that it is bad that the Bush administration lied about this however

Gore did fudge a few “facts” in An Inconvenient Truth, so one bad turn deserves another, one supposes

Jed/Merc

You’re both right, but Jed is ‘more’ right. Jed’s message is simple, treat the earth as a living entity, with respect. Mercs is nuanced with pragmatism, a pragmatism that has led us to the very problem you both acknowledge.

Your division points to the core of the problem. I doubt any of the scientists Merc cites, but conveniently doesn’t quote, would assert that man is NOT a part of the problem. The question becomes just what IS man’s role in all this from both a negative AND a positive side. I would like to think that where there may lie doubt on the matter, clear heads would opt for erring on the side of caution. The potential exists for a scenario not unlike an avalanche. ‘Nature’ most certainly put the snow on the mountain, but man has a disquieting habit of dislodging that same snow with disastrous consequences.

Unavoidable Truth: We’re part of the problem and we’re the only solution.

And please, don’t couch negativism with pragmatism. If we can go to war and spend trillions on a one-in-a-million chance a terrorist is going to blow up a building, I think it’s feasible to get ‘serious’ about addressing a more viable threat. To conclude that the U.S. is both a) the sole engine of change as well as b) feckless in the face of resistance is a position convenient to the people who caused the problem and who would be ‘inconvenienced’ by it’s resolution.

PS Could we PLEASE stop calling it Global Warming? Warming IS one of the detectable elements of the findings, but lost in all the rhetoric of the Right is the reality that some places (England?) could return to the Ice Age. Tim, you even use that title as a link. I’m sure the Cons are having a good laugh over that. For the record, it’s Climate Change. Anyone who claims to know more is farting out his mouth.

Hey, global warming deniers: So, your fundamental conclusion is that since someone claimed ice age in the 70s, and the earth is warming now, it’s all a sham?

Bottom line is this: Stick your global warming denying mouth around a tailpipe for a few minutes. Inhale some secondhand smoke for a while, and chop down all the trees around you.
More co2, less trees equals problems. See: arctic ice.

I’m so sick and phucking tired of people concluding that it’s okay to spew crap out of tailpipes and smokestacks just because they don’t believe ‘liberal’ scientists. Get over yourself humans. You’re as expendable as anything on earth, no matter what Stub says. All you are, humans, is organic matter. Carbon. Hopefully, the next civilizations won’t be digging us out of the ground to fuel their Hummers for their 2 mile commute.

well said Dennis, i should have altered my point a little– i do believe global warming exists, and that man has a part in it, but i dont think that man is the only cause

if global warming, or whatever one wants to call it, really is the planet killer that they claim it bo be, then someone had better start talking about total mobilization, because simply driving hybrid cars isnt going to do it

and theres the problem of the third world, which is rapidly industrializing at the cost of the environment, who either dont have the inclination or the capital to implement changes beneficial to the environment…and we can set an example, but we cant force anyone to follow, short of violent coercion…so hopefully that adds to my pragmatism a little

as for scientists, i do think that Viktor Schauberger is interesting, but i tend to lean more toward the theories of Milankovitch

while milankovich’s theories are valid and probable, you leave out one important fact… according to the milankovich cycle, we should be in a cooling trend, however our observations show the opposite is true.
Something else. If the cycle explains the growth and shrinkage of ice caps, why aren’t there records of ice ages at the exact periods of least warmth according to the cycle? Say for example that the precession, axis angle and planetary tilt are at the point of least exposure to the suns rays every 20 thousand years (a supposition, don’t use it as cause for discrediting the point because it isn’t accurate) then there should be an ice age every 20 thousand years regardless of any other factors. Yet this is not the case. Why? could it be that there are other factors that would contribute to create an ice age? Truly, to understand such a complex system one almost needs to be God. Too many variables and possibilities to calculate… I know this much though, only humans completely destroy and strip forests clean. Only humans treat their homeplanet as a waste dump for their manufactured chemicals. Only humans have decided to change their environment in such a way as to render it’s mechanisms for removing CO2, cooling the surfaces and regulating the flow of water. These activities have increased to unprecedented levels in the last couple of centuries. The only variable that has not existed in the past ice ages is the constant production of CO2 and other harmful chemicals into the atmosphere by human activity. Scientists have been studying ice cores and mud cores as well as the sedimentary recorn and they have discovered that there is also a correlation between the ice ages and CO2 levels. So perhaps the MILA Cycle in combination with high levels of CO2 are what is needed to create the conditions for an ice age… or burning. The book of revelations says the earth will be consumed by fire, perhaps this is the fire spoken of. Remember the california wildfires? how about the ones in greece? Unprecedented they were called, now imagine that on a global scale. It doesn’t have to happen all at once, the effects are cumulative like smoking cigarrettes affects the lungs.

I’m pretty sure you don’t know much of Schauberger besides what you may have found on the REX Research site or others like it that provide a summary based on their understanding of the man’s work. I suggest you avail yourself of the books and hear it from the source himself, It will leave you wondering why his SOLUTIONS haven’t been implemented, seeing that they are so simple.
Viktor was doing ‘cold fusion’ in the 1930s but no one realizes that is exaclty what he’s done. Be thankful he was not a Nazi sympathyzer, our mother tongue might well be german now. He was forced to do work on wingless aircraft, by all accounts he was successful but a mysterious ‘accident’ destroyed the prototypes.