THey needed the extra time to figure out how to spin it to the american people. Sure Bush didn’t know, Cheney is the real prez, he controls what the elected prez gets to see and when and for how long.

Reminds me of the Simpsons movie, When the EPA guy is trying to get the president to pick a plan. If you haven’t seen it, you need to.

The guy may be a bad orator, but he isn’t stupid. He is crazy and messianic, but underestimating how informed he is just makes it easier for him to continue with his agenda. Their behavior from the beginning of his election was to hide, subvert and ignore any information that would impede them from waging multiple wars. The only difference now is that they are having a harder time convincing us that these reports are not accurate because we are onto them.

Ofcourse they needed time to spin. Did anyone listen to the President’s response to the release of the report? Pure unadulterated blather.

Here’s a question for all the remaining supporters of this criminal regime: If everything the President says about the global threat of terror, then why is he always winking and grinning when talking about it? Funny, but when he’s talking about getting his money from Congress, he’s all business. But, when he’s talking to the press corps about various threats from terrorists, he mixes in winks and grins.

Bottom line about this President is this: This guy has failed-up his whole life and proven to be the dumbest president in the history of the United States, so why would we, all of a sudden, expect him to know things?? He’s like anyone else in the current white house. He reads the morning Cheney ‘talking points’ and goes about his day trumpeting terrorism in order to get money for his defense cronies. Period, End of story. Move along, nothing to see here……

He didn’t think the intelligence community would pull the rug out from the remainder of this Israel-driven administration.

It’s about the oil.

Once an oil man, always an oil man.

To paraphrase Frank Herbert, “The OIL must flow.”

These a***oles think their criminality is justified by that premise… all the way back to their illegal and reprehensible actions during and after the 2000 campaign.

Their further delusion is that history will vindicate these p***ks.

Tired: Yes, you are stating the obvious. In fact, the President, himself, has admitted as much by saying his definition of national security is ‘oil flow’.

The problem is this: There are still an expansive number of Americans who believe fighting for resources, even though we have the knowledge and technology to go without those resources, is okay……

Coach,

You wrote,”Tired: Yes, you are stating the obvious. In fact, the President, himself, has admitted as much by saying his definition of national security is ‘oil flow’.”

So. Post after post you talk about how much of a liar Bush is. Now you believe him because he said the definition of national security is oil flow? If the definition of national security is oil flow, then the U.S. would be far more secure if we forced EVERY oil producing country: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Venezuala, Canada, etc… to COMPETE for U.S. business. That would require normalizing relations with Iran…and ending our “special” relationship with Israel. All in the name of national security.

So tired of stating the obvious,

Are you so tired of stating the obvious that you’ve decided to start stating incorrect information instead?

So, according to you because Bush is an oil man he will be loyal to the oil industry.

Bush is also an Evangelical Christian which provides the largest volume of support for Israel in the U.S. According to your logic, Bush will be loyal to Israel.

Wonder which Bush cares about more, oil or God? Gee I wonder.

Eastwood: Yes, I’m getting tired of stating the obvious. I’m also getting tired of hearing blind, realismless, infantile defense of Bush and his intentions. Yes, while I don’t believe anything that comes out of the mouth of this administration, his admission of national security meaning oil security was a ’slipup’ early in his tenure. He hasn’t said it since, and won’t say it again. But, I guess you’re more interested in a stupid, semantical debate, rather than debate the theme: This whole escapade in the middle east is about entrenching his oil cronies in the region for years to come.

But, for the record, I’ll admit I cherry-picked from one of Bush’s interviews for my own benefit. Just so happens its the truth, which is an absolute rarity with this adminstration.

to admit failure would be to admit failure, and one must not do such a thing if one wants to retain his or her political reputation and/or establish a shining legacy to leave behind him or her…

So Coach is admitting to a quote attributed to “Stating the obvious.” Jed and Coach seem like basically the same person.

I wonder if I’m debating three people or just one…

Coach,

You wrote: “This whole escapade in the middle east is about entrenching his oil cronies in the region for years to come.”

Now think for a minute my friend. How would bombing a nuclear power facility in Iran benefit George Bush’s oil buddies? Bush’s buddies can’t gain control of Iranian oil through such an action and it drives oil prices up by eliminating Iranian nuclear power competition, which is undesirable for U.S. oil co’s.

Now look at the people who are even now making statements about the danger Iran poses:

Ehud Barak, defense minister of Israel reacting to the NIE: “in our estimation, since then [Iran] is apparently continuing with its program to produce a nuclear weapon.”

He then says: “It is our responsibility to ensure that the right steps are taken against the Iranian regime. As is well known, words don’t stop missiles.”

John Bolton: “…people in the intelligence community who had their own agenda on Iran for some time now have politicized this intelligence..” he goes on to call for an investigation into the entire intelligence community.

That’s cute, John Bolton, a neocon, talking about politicizing intelligence. He must be a huge oil guy right? Right? Wrong.

Now to the CEO of Mobil for his reaction to the NIE: ….nothing.

C’mon guys face reality. I know you might have a knee jerk reaction to protect “the jews” as you call them from an Iranian nuclear weapon, but your childish and naive view of the world only ends up hurting Israel through paternalistic indulgence. Wake up.

For all you oilheads out there, here is the first few paragraphs from a recent NYT article on this NIE:

“A U.S. intelligence assessment that Iran has stopped developing atomic weapons is putting a burden on the Jewish state, which has long relied on Washington to lead the international charge against Iran’s nuclear ambitions.

“With the U.S. now less likely to take military action, an increasingly nervous Israel might feel compelled to strike out on its own if it perceives a dangerous threat.”

Read. This is conventional wisdom. I hope you understand how stupid you’ll look if Israel actually bombs Iran…

Wow.

I think I just read an entire dissertation on something completely unrelated to the topic. The technical process of extracting oil? Pleas. No one is going to deny that the oil companies are comprised of the most corrupt repugnant people on Earth, but the reason we are militarily involved in the middle east is because of Israel. We could have all the oil we wanted if we started importing oil from Iran, forcing the Iranians, Saudis, Iraqis, Russians and yes, the Canadians to compete for our business. This would lower oil prices worldwide and lessen the power of rich tyrants like Chavez and Putin. This would be the oil lobby’s dream. That they’ve lost it proves that Israel has won in terms of U.S. foreign policy influence.

The Israelis have good reason to be concerned. You see, they still believe Iran could develop a nuclear weapon that it could detonate in Israel via terrorists. Israel obviously does not like this situation and so has used its special relationship with the U.S. to get us to eliminate it’s enemies, first in bombing Saddam’s Iraq because Saddam had launched missiles at Tel-Aviv during the Gulf War. The Israelis correctly assumed that Bush was a president who-becuse of religious conviction-could be counted on to rid them of their enemies. The rough plan was for Israel to attack Hezbollah in Lebannon and the Syrian regime while the U.S. tackled Iran. According to Norman Podhertz, the godfather of the neoconservative movement and current senior adviser to Rudy Guliani’s campaign: this was the definition of “World War IV,” so named because the neocons believed the cold war was “World War III,” and since their struggle was going to seem a lot more like the cold war than like Normandy, they wanted to have the propoganda clout of the “World War” brand. (Obviously the U.S. had won the only two world wars.)

Unfortunately for Israeli hawks it seems Iran isn’t so threatening. No wonder-unlike virtually the rest of the world-they’re denying our intelligence report.

And coach,

I would have told you Bush was the worst president ever in 2003. I am not a republican and never will be. That I read and am informed does not make me a member of the KKK or the third reich, on the contrary it equips me to protect people like you against them. I’d hope you’d show a little respect.

Jed,

I almost forgot. You implied earlier that the oil companies had been in control of the U.S. since at least WWII. If so, why did they wait 30 years after the Iranian revolutionaries deposed the Shah to begin planning to bomb Iran?

Was it because they wanted to lose money for 30 years? Is that why?

Maybe you’re from an alternate universe or something but in my experience, any industry that operates with the goal of losing money for 40 years probably doesn’t have much clout in running the world. Just saying.

i think Eastwood and Jed Clampett should hang out and drink some beer together – you guys are like siskel and ebert or something…

see, the first two were rather interesting and make some very good points… then you went elsewhere.
The oil companies are making mad profits since the oil industries inception. Even though there have been many technologies to improve on the efficiency of the Internal Combustion Engine and even very viable alternatives with steam and others that would have reduced our dependance on petroleum. Nikola Tesla proposed using his 80%+ efficiency engine to generate electricity and use an AC motor to drive the wheels, it’s still a very viable option. The industry has resisted time and time again, even to the extent of paying off the car companies to minimize the success of the electric vehicle tests in california.

Not sure why you defend the oil industry with such fervor, but I imagine you must have some vested interest. That’s ok, I don’t think any of us gets to see the whole picture anyways.

I do, however have a problem with your theory. If Israel uses it’s tacticals or any other weapon on iran it will definately imflame the region as it has never been before, especially with the current tension in the neighborhood. It may have the guardian next door but it also has a very large internal arab population that may not stay peaceful. It has hizbulla in the north, hamaz in it’s south and just about any other enemy you could imagine surrounding them. Pakistan has been building nukes for how long now? You think maybe they will have the incentive to share them with their counterparts to achieve a common goal once and for all and let a higher power sort it out? Maybe Syria will find the option to use it’s chemicals it has been producing is a valid one. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, I believe is their credo, they can go back to fighting each other later. They have skillfully drawn us in by using the soudis to pander to our greed. Don’t you find it peculiar that Iran has been giving the impression that they are trying to build nukes even though they have apparently closed operations since 03? Remember Saddam did the same before their invasion?

Had the israelis proven themselves to be better than the disruptive forces in the region. Had they allowed the palestinian people as much prosperity as they have enjoyed. They would not be in as much of a predicament as they are now. Unfortunately that has been done and it seems like the forces of instability have the upper hand in the region. Whichever it is, we better be very well prepared for the outcome if it is negative. We no longer have very good allies in russia and china.

I would expound more on the oil industry and how they relate to the sha and others in the region some other time if you wish. Suffice it to say, the oil industry wasn’t nearly as powerful or consolidated back then as they are now, I think you are confusing it with the MIC.

Remember when Bush met Prince Bin-Sultan of soudy arabia in crawford, They kissed each other on the cheeks, shared a deep knowing look into each others eyes then proceeded to walk hand in hand through the woods? Have you ever seen him show as much affection for any of the televangelists or religious leaders that visit him?
There’s a reason for that. Remember when they first got into office, they had some big fanfare about being religiously motivated, even creating new department to deal with the ‘faith based initiative’ to distribute and organize the distributions and directives that would come from the white house. That director resigned and wrote a telling book on how ‘faith based’ the administration is, or rather is not. It’s a very interesting read, the guy made all the talk show rounds when the book came out, an asian-american guy, I believe his name was Cho. If you can’t believe from an insider who was actually witness to the disdain the administration actually has for the religious establishment then nothing will change your opinion. So be it.

Jed,

I think Bush has far more respect for votes-or at least the appearance of them- than he does his faith or the oil industry. That’s reason enough for him to support Israeli security interests over those of the oil lobby: because there are more U.S. votes in it for him from hardcore Israeli supporters shich include evangelicals (incidentally, votes were the reason Truman gave when he recognized Israel while at the same time not recognizing any Palestinian state). Besides, there’s money in it for Bush too, and the oil lobby would-and did-contribute thier cash to him over a Democrat anyway.

I have no clue why you think I’m supporting the oil industry. The oil industry-along with the healthcare industry- is probably the worst force in the U.S. today. Our argument was never about supporting the oil industry; it was about our reasons for invading Iraq and attacking Iran. Was the reason Israe, oil or both? There is far more evidence to suggest the main reason was Israel. Aside from what I’ve already posted, do you honestly think the prospect of Israel’s nuclear annihilation doesn’t motivate them-and us-to protect them? Do you honestly think that’s less a motivating factor than is some vague-and from subsequent U.S. actions, contradictory-notion about oil industry power?

Also,

The Saudis have been angry at Bush for a long time over Iraq. The entire fiasco has had the effect of strengthening thier worst enemy, Iran. And your point about Pakistan assumes that Arab and Persian governments operate as one block and will set aside thier own interests to bomb Israel-they won’t. The Pakistanis worry far more about India than they do Israel, and they are almost as likely as the Saudis to oppose Iran’s rise. If Israel bombed Iran it’s hard to imagine Musharif or the Saudi Prince supporting military action against them; look at what happened when Israel bombed Syria the other month: not a single moderate Arab state came to thier aid.

The real problem if Israel attacks Iran will come in the form of retaliation from Iran in the form of high oil prices which will cause a global recession. The Israelis have far more to fear from international blowback from such an action, specifically from China, Russia and the EU but also, if things got bad enough economically, from the average population of the U.S. than they do the current Pakistani government. That’s why I don’t think Israel is crazy enough to bomb but as I said before, extremist religion and sanity seldom mix.

that would be a good theory, if he was at all concerned with votes now that he can’t even run.

Sorry, to me, only greed and a lust for power drives these guys, any other stated ideology or philosophy is either a way of dissembling so their true aims won’t be discovered or a way of supporting their true aim, Complete control of all others for their personal monetary gain.

He can’t run again?

The guy invaded Iraq in 2003 buddy. He was re-elected in 2004. Stop smoking whatever it is you’re smoking and get back to reality.

Israel is the reason we invaded Iraq. That Bush can’t run again might just be the reason the U.S. hasn’t bombed Iran. But take a look at the “information” coming out of the Israeli intelligence community and see how alarmist it is on Iran.

If you think money is the only thing driving the world get a clue. Survival is the only thing driving the world. Israel is scared for its life, that’s why it wants us to eliminate its enemies in the middle east.

Wake up.

Or are you saying that Israel is not in any danger and the only reason they’re threatening Iran, Syria, Lebannon, Palestine, etc… is because they want “complete control of all others for thier personal monetary gain.”

Sounds pretty Germany circa 1930’s to me.

Jed,

No one is talking about the Israeli-Palestine situation, something which both sides share blame. We were talking about who bears responsibility for taking us to war in Iraq and for almost bombing Iran. The answer-as I’ve laid out below- is clear: Israeli neoconservatives.

Your points about the Israelis using brutish tactics to suppress the Palestinians are well taken though, because it seems these same tactics have been used to cow Democrats and spread fear among the U.S. population so that the so-called “war on terror” can continue to take out Israel’s enemies.

In fact, Israel has been accused of using “enhanced interrogation techniques” on its prisoners, which as you noted were taken from the naxis, and which were quite probably recommended to the U.S. by Israel itself, kind of a quid pro quo for our giving Israel access to our most classified weapons technology.

And even though we’re not talking about the ISrael Palestine conflice I can’t resist because of one of today’s headlines. Israel just sent 10-30 tanks and armored vehicles into Gaza and killed 5-20 Palestinians ON THE DAY BEFORE THE FIRST ANNAPOLIS-INSPIRED MEETING FOR PEACE IS TO TAKE PLACE. Now tell me the Israelis are interested in peace. More like war, which is why they want the U.S. at thier backs.

Your points

Seems to me Israel would have no problem taking care of it’s enemies on it’s own. Only took 6 days last time. If it came down to it, and israel was loosing, enough nukes would fly out of Israeli planes to flatten every major arab city around.

And that’s what they wanted us to do for them.

Feith, Wolfowitz, those were the guys.

It’s good that you’re finally coming around to reason, Coach Jed.

But if you’re wondering why the Israelis wanted us to do it for them that’s easy.

Israel is already one of the most hated countries in the world. Starting overt wars that cause global recessions is a basic invitation to global antisemitism.

right, so in your imaginary little world, the US is willing to do Israels dirty work for them and be vilified and compared to nazi germany in the bargain. YOUR BRILLIANT!!!

So I guess pakistan, with it’s nukes, extremist fundamentalists loaded security services, warring factions of shiaas and sunnys as well as a demonstrated hatred for the west, a history of creating, protecting and funding of the taliban, instigation of armed conflict on the punjab and proliferation of nuclear technology around the world. By your logic, we should be beating the war drums on pakistan rather than iran, yet they are our ‘ally’(?) and receive a few billion dollars a year to ‘help us defeat the terrorists’, still they do very little to help. Seems to me we are complete patsies and are now funding our enemies. Yet you fail to recognize all of that and choose to try and stir the pot against iran. Considering they assisted us when we went after the taliban in afghanistan and were willing to negotiate given the good will at the time, our current administration refused, why? (Hard to steal oil through diplomacy) Instead they chose to take a bellicose stand against them, voiding any possibility of diplomatic solutions and creating the conditions where iran would have to defend itself however it can. If that means keeping the US occupied with the insurgency, destroying expensive equipment with EFP or whatever other means, then they are justified in protecting themselves from an arrogant, bellicose nation intent on going to war with them, most likely to steal their natural resource. So you may wish to allow yourself to be duped, personally, I know that when the evidence doesn’t fit the actions of the witness, I know the witness is a liar and not to be trusted in any of their testimony. I believe this adminstration has proven itself to be that liar and the congress it’s enabler. Some of us still know how to keep our eyes open rather than be limited by blinders.

Jed,

First, I’m not brilliant. I simply pay attention to world affairs.

Second, you are as blind as anyone could possibly imagine. The amount of evidence in favor of the argument that Israel is behind our middle east policy is nothing short of overwhelming. That you deny facts so readily makes one assume you may be a bit imbalanced, especially when you consider that you have offered no evidence whatsoever for your alternate theory that oil is the reason for our invading Iraq and possibly bombing Iran.

The reason we didn’t normalize relations with Iran after they helped us in Afghanistan was because Israel considered the Iranians a threat. Israeli agents within the pentagon, named Douglas Feith and Paul Wolfowitz, were on a vendetta against the Iranians because Iran funded and continues to fund and smuggle weapons to the Syrians, Hezbollah and violent elements of the Palestinians including Hamas, which attacks Israel daily. Because of this the Israelis had decided-the evidence suggest before 911 but at least since then-to bomb Iran and to take out its rulers.

You also wrote this: “by your logic, we should be beating the war drums on Pakistan rather than iran, yet they are our ‘ally’?”

Aside from the fact that this post makes no sense, its logical construction-and its predictably lame attempt at trapping me-is the same as what Coach posted yesterday. I find very little reason to think you are two separate people.

Either way, to write something like this shows how little you know about Pakistan and how unqualified you are to make judgements regarding our middle east policy as a result. We still support Musharraf, the now-dictator in Pakistan PRECISELY BECAUSE he keeps the radical sunni elements from obtaining control of Pakistani nukes. Your post-like before-treats all Pakistanis as an Arab bloc that will kill us if they get the chance, yet this has been proven over and over not to be the case. That you have a tendency to see all Arabs as the same speaks volumes about who you are and where your allegiances truly lie.

oh snap!!! dude, you’re hillarious.

At leat you got the brilliant part right. too bad you are not intelligent enough to recognize a sarcastic reference to a sarcastic commercial. Well, I can see that you figure your imagined reasons that support your imagination are more valid than ours. now youre starting to fall into the insult and discredit and introduce your own imagination as if it is what we think. As you already know, that is impossible to have a valid conversation or debate with. So I suggest you enjoy your theory and keep paying higher prices at the pump. Just one more thing to reiterate….

BRILLIANT!!!

Either that or truth.

I know the truth is obviously something “Jed Clampett” isn’t interested in.

Otherwise he’d provide some evidence in favor of his own “theory” (wet dream) that oil companies had anything to do with our attacking the middle east.

Instead he’d rather provide cover for the fact that his own racism has resulted in the disaster of Iraq and the deaths of many innocent United States children in the name of Israel. He is a Naxi. Pure and simple. Let him hang.