We’re going to Iran sometime. The war drums are being beaten pnce again, and the neo-cons and their brothers at Faux News are sounding the alarm.

When will people rise up and start protesting? We should be marching on the National Mall and out of our campuses and churches every day. When did we become so apathetic? Well, I’m going to go watch ‘The Hills’ now…..

Sanctions first, and make an attack a last option

there are ways of taking care of Iran’s nuclear situation without going totally to war…a position that Cheney has to know that we cant place ourselves in, for strategic reasons

who would want a war now? we’ve finally gotten somewhere in Iraq, Afhanistan still needs progress, and we want to go into Iran? I still think this is all blustery saber rattling

MT: you might be going to “watch ‘The Hills’”

but if the USA does wage war against Iran

a lot of people will be Heading To The Hills…

halliburton released it’s earnings today. $740+ million or about 79c a share. Apparently war is good to someone, the VP’s true employer, and they are more than willing to make more work for themselves.
Will we let them invade Iran and start WWIII before we start demanding IMPEACHMENT!!!???!!!

I think the people(who can influence politics when they actually care) will be the preventative force stopping cheney from getting bush to press congress to go to iran. We have woken up to what this war is really about, mostly. Trying to scare us into a third one would be pretty tough. If cheney managed to goad Iran into enough skirmishes in Iraq, that may convince enough people that Iran is evil and such. That’s my only worry. Without some excuse to use as provocation, cheney wouldn’t get past bush.

let’s not forget who made iran an unstable theocracy in the first place… that’s right, the cia, when they deposed the shah. cheney needs to understand that our constant meddling in the past has only created headaches today and that our actions will continue to do so until we take our hands out of the oil jar.

you missed my point jed. Reread it. The first sentence makes it pretty obvious.

Of course if you disagree thats fair. Just don’t suggest I put faith in our government to stop this. Like I said, I believe we the people will be the ones seeing this 3rd war doesn’t happen(barring some false flag), not government.

There goes Merk again. Giving benefit of the doubt to a terrorist organization. No, I wasn’t talking about Iran, my friend.
Let’s analyze sabre rattling for a second: Why would someone sabre rattle if they didn’t WANT the fight? Ofcourse it’s sabre rattling. They’re still looking for the reason to go and invade Iran. It’s time to wake up and smell the gun powder soaked in oil. These neocons (yes, I’m completely sick of the term) WILL continue to point the finger. Was Iran an issue a few years ago when they were aiding us in Afghanistan? It’s all part of their plan, if you educate yourself to the principals of their plan.
And, here’s the bad news: Iran’s not the last stop on their agenda.

And, Jed, with our current political system and the rules and regulations instituted by the Patriot Act, there’s not a damn thing anybody can do aside from witholding the funding for war.

sure there can, work stoppages at all levels of the society would send a clear message. A silent revolution would do as well. If people are on the streets protesting and stopping commerce, it will force them to realize we will not late them profit off the war, they will end it. Finally, a brave soldier that has returned from several trips and abadoned by his country’s medical fiasco could strap on a bomb and eliminate the prez and veep… but that wouldn’t happen, only the arabs are angry and dissilusioned enought to give up their lives for a higher cause like that.

RealityBlows, we can stop this war if we really want to. Now, I know it’s a long shot, but if people in large enough numbers protest, our government will have to listen. They need their obedient little workers or everything in this country will stop. We aren’t replaceable or manageable in large numbers. The only thing keeping us passive is the separation between us and the war. Besides gas prices and maybe 10000 families, nothing has been changed that we come in contact with in our normal lives. We still get to lay back in our comfy chairs, type away without a care that the war will make any real difference. If we can get past that apathy, we will be able to hold our government to its promise to represent us. I think a third war just might get us to that point.

Do we kill the leaders of state anymore?
I mean,, come on,, didn’t have to go to iraq to kill saddam. Could have done that setting on the couch, sipping a beer..
We got the tech to do that,, I’ve saw it during desert storm,, hell, desert storm was almost 20 years ago..
I know we’re a hell of a lot better now..
Iran,, now that’s something we could try some of that killing tech on..
I agree,, we don’t have the troops to invade Iran,, but we sure do have the ICBMs, and the B-52S, B-1s,,
well you get the idea..
Besides,, We can’t leave all this for our kids to take care of,,
Look at how our kids are doing in ” public schools “??
Who want’s to send a child to fight a nuclear war with iran??
and as far as ” Mock Mood I’m A Dimmer Job “, is concerned,,
” i hope i spelled his name right ”
Will the world miss another crazy man??
How about the ayatolla supreme wheenie??
Throw him in the line of fire for good measure..

We can’t win in iraq.. well maybe we can do a little better than we thought.. oh alright,, things are starting to work out over there,,
and how much trouble would just,, go away if those people using them ” iranian bombs “, quit getting them iranian bombs??

Not since the civil war has this country tasted the reality of war. Nothing has physically happened to this country since. Save for an occasional, “The Russians Are Coming,” and now, “The Terrorists Are Coming,” nada, zilch, nothing. In light of that, it’ll be a little difficult to galvanize the type of effort necessary to effect foreign policy change.

It ‘worked’ in Viet Nam ‘cause young American men who didn’t want to go were being made to go. That’s not the case now. In truth, how do we really know there’s a war going on in Iraq? Because it’s on TV and in the news. Given the outpouring of dissatisfaction with MSM from all quarters, you would think there would be skeptics saying the war is a sham.

My point? Until it happens to you, it’s not real.

Every time I read the comment section of Rolling Stone’s National Affairs blog, my faith in the wisdom of our founding fathers shrinks a millimeter, and a part of me begins to think in terms of benign despots. Then, I wish that at least 3/4 of you are illegal immigrants living in an impossibly red state where names get purged from voting logs for just *looking* felonious…

But then I realize, this utterly paranoid circus of a comment section is probably exactly what those old belligerent drunks had in mind, in some primitive way. This kind of madness is how a tightly-wound bully like Rudolph Giuliani or Richard Nixon finds a place for himself in society; how an gushing show-off like Bill Clinton gets all the scrutiny he’s ever wanted and more, and how a bashful misfit like Barack Obama gets $75 million dollars to run tens of thousands of tear-jerking TV commercials about ‘hope.’

May you refine your opinions, and recruit your less partisan, less paranoid friends to post occasionally. I’m especially thinking of you, Delta, CC, Jed, all of yall. You know who you are– well, no, you probably don’t.

All the posters who throw the “neocon” word out re:possible war with Iran are misled. It’s not just the “neocons” who will take us to war. Hillary Clinton has received more money from the defense industry this election than any other candidate. She has made it plain that military action against Iran is on the table—-and that means YES. It’s not a “neocon” or “liberal” issue—-it’s a “who writes the checks” issue. Let us not forget that the Israeli lobby is pushing for war with Iran, and Hillary has always been deeply in the pockets of the Israelis. So is Obama—didn’t he just proclaim his undying support for Israel? What Israel wants, Israel gets. If you dont’ want war with Iran, VOTE FOR RON PAUL. He’s the only candidate on either side who is not beholden to any special interest, unless you count East Texas shrimpers.

i agree that Iran is oppresive, supports terror, they execute more minors than anybody, the clerics abuse their power, and ther people.

Ray, the U.S. supports terrorist groups, oppresses minorities, and abuses power. What’s the difference and why is it our business?

Props DD, well said.

Gotta love when…once again…the US proclaims itself the ultimate judge and jury of all things global.

Yes, the same US with its own spotless record on human rights. What a sick joke.

And of course, Americans are too stupid and apathetic to raise a fuss. Why do that when they can just keep eating their fast food and watching their brainless reality TV?

Yes folks, you are witnessing the beginning of the end.

Ray, while your patriotism should be applauded, it’s, apparently, lacking fundamental historical education. Do yourself a favor and research the relationship between the Bush family and the Saudi sheiks. Specifically, research the weapons deals. Then, find out whose hands those weapons end up in: sunni militias.

Patriotism is and should be respected. But, blind patriotism, with no respect to American history should be exposed as the fraudulent ideology that it is. Funny, but DD exposed all the horrible things America has done (recently), and it will probably be blown off or brushed under the rug in the famous “america would never do that” rhetoric. Thing is, America WILL do that and HAS done that.

As long as there is lobbying in this country, America will be involved in the horrible things it claims to abhor.

Oh yeah, Ray. What American lives are you talking about? Specifically.

By the by: Just wondering if you people (merk, cap piglet, bloody oil, Prop sniffer) still think global warming is a sham. Remember what we were told? Bigger storms. Longer droughts. More fires. More flooding.
All of that is happening right now. Are you people still willing to call it some ‘liberal’ mass hysteria?
Your armageddon was terrorism. Ours (liberal) was global warming. Which one is the bigger threat? 500,000 and counting have had to evacuate their southern california homes. Never, and I mean NEVER have we had to evacuate that many people because of some terrrorism threat.
But, I’m just some ‘whining’ liberal panzy, right? Well, that’s fine. It’s better than being aligned with the same ideology the Germans used to have……..

RB, you need to calm down. You’re starting to cast the same shadow you chase.

Just ’cause he’s emotional does NOT mean he’s wrong.

WAR! WHEEEEEEE!

Give us some more of that reality t.v. drama! Hell, “Heroes” is alright but I want to see the Hell of war from up close! Right up close to my t.v. screen!

I sound more and more like a neocon each day…

I never said climate change was a sham.

they won’t show you the reality of war, hell, they don’t have the balls to even let us see the flag draped coffins of those who have died for this countries oil companies. They definately don’t want you to know the reality of how much is being spent, on interest, to bring in more profits for exxon and the soudi royal family. If they were to at least show the reality of war, if they showed people with their limbs blown off, others with holes the size of fists in their heads that actually survive and are then left hanging by their government. Na man, it is obvious that we don’t care to see what is really going on.
Cue… Wheel Of Fortune!! Let’s see what number it falls on… What? Bankrupt? damn, just another game of chance I guess.

RealityBlows – The dust bowl lasted 6 years, how long has this drought been going on? Two years is it? So much for longer droughts. But hey as far as I am concerned keep on blaming everything on global warming, because they more you do the more foolish you look, and the less people will take you seriously. So please all you global warming mongers keep up the good work. The more you cry wolf, the happier I am.

I guess I proved my point Piglet. You aren’t only a skeptic of cliimate change, you’ll even villify it in the name of spite.

Hmmm. Good stuff. Yeah, we’re mongers for a reason. Climate change is actually affecting our lives. Terrorism, which you probably tout, can be averted. Storms, fires, flooding, mudslides, tornados, hurricanes, volcanic eruptions. These are things that you can’t stop. I can, actually, stop a terrorist from blowing people up by shooting him in the head. Good luck doing that to a hurricane.

I’d love to get into an infantile debate with you, but you have showed your true colors too many times. Keep drinking the confederate kool-aid bro.

My point, in another post, was the same as RB’s post, in case you were wondering Piglet.

Coach – You might want to check the news. Seems your wildfires were started by arsonist. So does global warming cause arson?

ah yes Jed, i knew that i had only been imagining when Al Qaeda flew the planes into the twin towers…and the pentagon…and cut off Daniel Pearl’s head…and began issuing fatwah’s…and blowing up the Cole…and the embassies in Kenya…need i go back any farther?

not that we shouldnt clean up the planet (who honestly WANTS dirty water or air?), or at least be concerned about the planet warming, but to say terrorism is imgained in the face of, quite possibly, the biggest culture clash the world has seen, at least since the crusades is laughable

also the fires were caused partly by mismanagement of the land, and because environmentalists in California will sue you if you try to burn back your underbrush to prevent such a fire…add that with dry conditions (which may or may not be global warming), you have a deadly fire starter

youre missing the point, the events are real, the threat level and the response is imaginary.

The number one objective in striking afghanistan after sept11 should have been to kill bin laden, yet the most likely exit route from tora bora was allowed to be managed by pakistani forces alone. I imagine there is some very good predator video of Usama’s party waving at pakistani troops as they cross into their homelands somewhere in a drawer in washinton.
we are told this is the fight for our lives, these guys can innhilate us! Yet we realize they are merely a disorganized criminal franchize at best.
Had we not invaded iraq they wouldn’t have had nearly as much motivation as if they only had to fight us in Afghanistan… as far as recruiting new fighters.

Even though this is a start of WWIII, as the prez recently alluded, we are not going into war production levels.
They must know it would take us 5 to 10 years to get production up for global scale warfare levels, why are they still allowing industry to leave in droves?
why are we still hearing about how haliburton is ripping us off and not doing anything about it? If it is so essential, then put those people in jail already and give it to emergency military management types to control and let’s manage it right… before they move to dubai or bimini or whereve it is they are running off to with our tax dollars and all the incriminating documents.

So yea, to me it’s imaginary, and even the response has been imaginary, when you try to add 2 and 2 and somehow it doesn’t add up to four, one has to ask questions ans look at what is going on objectively… it doesn’t make sense that they would have bungled so badly by mistake, these guys are – plan every detail, cross every T, dot every I – kind of guys… as it looks now, they got caught with their pants down and are taking a real …thumpin.
As all evil empires eventually do, it will implode, question is… how badly will the country be damaged when it does?

Merk

“Who would want a war now?”

Try the Usual Suspects;

Bush, Cheney, Exxon, Halliburton, Wolfowizz, Perle, etc.

Profiteering and it’s “Never Enough” and the Power Trip is addictive, too.

Let’s just hope there is enough Sane people and politicians(No Republicans Need Apply)to nip it in the bud.

Nip it before it blossoms into another Bush turd-flower that spits its —- on all of us, this time!

Impeachment should have been executed to rid our Nation of the Bush-Blight that “governs it”, make that, Controls Us.

They have got Matthews doing his Smear and Fear Fiction and all the other phonies who masquerade themselves as “news media”… Halloween is near-a set up is coming.

And, it’s not the smell of pumpkin in the air, it’s Bush B.S. in the planning stage.

I used to be a Marine combat engineer and spent considerable time building fire-breaks aboard Marine Base, Camp Pendleton. I have heard from old-timers that the worst fires in So. California follow (1 or 2 seasons late) unusually wet conditions, which result in higher than normal vegetation growth. Eventually this growth dies/dries out and is the fodder for a heavy fire season. Just an annecdote. I don’t really know, if this observation is correct, but I thought it was relevant. Perhaps global warming / climate change has something to do with it. I wouldn’t rule it out, but the fact of the matter is that it is impossible to pin one event on climate change. The most you can do is point to a number of events and say they are suggestive of global warming / climate change – indeed we are seeing more extreme climate-events. but it doesn’t work the other way. I challenge anyone out there to find a climate scientist of any repute who is willing to state that global warming is the root-cause of the fires in California.

War on terror? Yeah, right. Grow up people. Do you honestly think it’s going to go away?

How about a war on emissions? That, at least, we can control. But, I guess the republicans won’t get onboard that one because they think it belongs to Al Gore. Isn’t that rather infantile?

Why is it so difficult for people to admit that our fossil fuel burning is causing this climate to change in a bad way. Our co2 levels are reaching those of the last ice age. But, people still won’t believe it.

Why, Merk. Why Piglet (nevermind). Why Blood. All you other denyers, why? What’s the worst thing that could happen if we all went green?

Coach – I am not denying global warming. I am pointing out that you can argue that a growing number of events like these fires are suggestive of global warming, but you can’t argue that global warming is necessarily the cause of the fires – climate systems are too complex to be able to isolate their effect on localized phenomena such as these fires. When these localized phenomena tend to occur with increasing frequency and intensity, then you can begin to make the point that these kinds of events indicate something about the climate. In fact, I think that is precisely the case. We are seeing increased frequency and intensity of extreme climate events, indeed this is probably due to climate change. I applaud the strength of your conviction, but the scientific method has a higher burden of proof than conviction. It is that same scientific method that allows for discovery of things like global warming. Without the legitimacy that scientific method provides, global warming is just a bunch of hot air. When you and other folks make brash, unreasoned, uninformed, alarmist statements about global warming, you are undermining the cause of creating awareness much more than you are helping it.

funny, even the IPCC is saying the same things we are re. climate change, and they are a group of well respected scientist.
The head of the CDC put out testimony to congress 14 pages long about the health issues that will come up with increasing temperatures, the White House shortened it to 4 pages. And they say the redaction had no impact on the science and the main points. Has anyone here ever had a paper 14 pages long reduced to 4 and not severely damage the points of support as well as the thesis of your paper?
Why is the White House intent on hiding, distorting, watering down or otherwise sowing doubt within the Global warming debate? Now I understand the lemmings that just follow the party line regardless of how ridiculous the ideology and the policy might be, they are entranced and unnable to muster much in the way of original thought. Whether they believe it or not, their job it seems is to confuse and muck up the issue in order to prevent action to mitigate it’s effects… why? what do they hope to gain? Are they so myopic to think that an economy based on comprehending and copying nature would not be sustainable or profitable? is it that they truly are addicted to the insane amount of profit they make on oil that they would rather not find solutions that help all of us? Or is it that power corrupts and total power corrupts totally and now that they even own the US government and probably some other key governments in the world they wont release that control unless forced to by force of arms?

Blood: Bottom line is you want to put off doing anything about it until more scientific information comes in. I don’t. I realize that by putting it off, we’re making it worse. By not getting off oil, not only are we ruining our atmosphere, we’re creating an unstable international relationship.
Being alarmist about this makes sense to me. If it gets us off oil, we won’t have to do business with those ‘islamists’ anymore and we won’t be spewing emissions into the air. It’s a win/win. Why wait? Nobody’s answering that question. Why wait? We didn’t wait to get the iphone on the market. We didn’t wait to bring plasma tvs into the market. We didn’t wait to open up 5 trillion starbucks.
Industry doesn’t wait for anything, except the effort to get off oil. Seems a bit fishy to me……and people wonder why we’re fighting in the middle east, as if it as NOTHING to do with oil…. yeah, right.

Coach –
I don’t know what you are talking about. I am betting my entire career on the asummption that something will be done, and must b done now.

Blood Bro: I was merely referencing quotes justifying the ‘nature’ of these disasters/fires. Its’ that kind of rhetoric that keeps people in limbo on whether or not we/man are creating this mess.
My point is this: What negative outcome could come from committing to going green? If somebody can answer me that in a valid/civil response, I’d be more than willing to listen. But, I’m getting sick and tired of global climate change being tied to some ‘liberal mass hysteria’. What negative could come from it? I really hope Piglet tries to answer that question for me. But, hopes can be dashed…

BTW: Sorry for the accusations Bloody. I’m just looking to get some questions answered, and get a little inflamed when those answers are just plain rhetoric……..

Coach,

I can attest that Ole has demonstrated some ‘right thinking’ on this matter. Now, if he can just shake some of the cobwebs out in other areas, there might just be hope for him.

Coach-

I think that your hope for a wider acceptance of climate change will be rewarded in the years to come. There’s just too much evidence to deny something of which an understanding is so fundamental to the continued stability of global civilization. Continued economic expansion depends on it. Whether you attribute that drive to greed or simply prudent leadership is not important. There are people out there who get it. The interest in this issue that is emerging among industrialists and investors is way more than a passing fad. Of course there are deniers aplenty, but those people represent an uninformed minority. Most of them do not command the kind of capital that can make a difference. Granted, there are numerous exceptions, but even the hydrocarbon industry understands that long-term, they must diversify into energy companies – it’s not all greenwash. They can’t survive as one-trick ponies. I think that the more you study how the markets actually behave, the more you realize that they tend ot under-react and over-react to new information until an equilibrium can be established. Understanding of climate and human-interaction with it is still a relatively young science relative to the science that is driving present climate threats. You have to give the market(s) time to develop ways of pricing climate in. It will take a better understanding of climate systems. It will take a better understanding of how estimate carbon footprints. It will take political leadership. It will take time. But rest assured, there is a growing awareness and it is not limited to an enlightened few. This awareness is increasingly mainstream.

IRAQ WAR FAUCETS

On the pretense of a nuclear threat, President Bush illegally turned on two faucets – full force: out of one flows the American People’s precious wealth, and out of the other faucet flows their priceless blood.

This is a black mark on his name that can never be erased – to damn him forever in history.