Someone might want to get Rep. Pete Stark a book on tact. Not too smart to make inflammatory remarks about the man you need to seek a compromise with. Good looking out Pete!

What happened to everybody? There used to be so many more commentators on this blog.
And who really wants healthy children in our society? That’s ridiculous!
All kidding aside, this is another dark day in American history. I expect the weather to continue as it has.

This is a poor reflecton on the GOP, want to cut something cut NASA by 40 percent, merge the Army and the Marines merge the Navy and Coast Guard and cut defense by 30 percent.

Glad to see the dumbacrats backdoor attempt at socialized medicine fail. Hey Dallas since when is a 25yo a child? And since when is making $85,000 a year poor? When the dumbacrats scream about taxing the rich, rich becomes making $50,000 a year. But now $85,000 a year is poor. And Ray the Marines are already part of the Navy.

when he is mentally retarded and an undue burden on his family.

When you have four children and live in one of the extremely high cost of living cities like New York and LA.

No one but Rush Limbaugh and O’really have said anything about $50k being rich… except for yourself and other parrots.

“dumbacrats”?

Really?

Cap pig, i said merge the Army and Marines and merge the Navy and Coast Guard.

Cap Pig, wake up man. Break it down. You’re okay with spending a trillion fighting gang members, but you’re NOT okay with spending an additional 35 billion on health? You DO realize the reason this war is costing so much toward our debt is because of your beloved capitalism, right? Can you say private contractors.

It’s still amazing how repugnant conservative idealism can be.
Party of life? yeah right.

You know, most of the people who fear socialized health care truly know nothing about it. They hear “socialized” and think “communist”. News flash people, if private insurance is so wonderful, then why is it a complete mess. Big insurance profiting from the American publics’ sickness and pain. There seems to be something inherently wrong with that concept. But that’s just me.

What about the poor single mother with 8 kids and a crack habit??

What about the poor bastards who have been forced to invest in ssi all their professinal life, just to retire and find out,, ssi ain’t there no more??

or heres one– dont have kids you cant afford

hmm, lets see, you only have the financial ability to have a certain amount of kids, because like Jed said, you’re in an expensive market. But you have more anyway, because you expect that you should be covered for YOUR decision by Unc Sam using my tax dollars

the reason why medicine is a mess right now is because regulations on said “evil insurance industry” arent being inforced

but i have to ask the question: so Delyrium, if we just simply replace big, evil insurance with big, evil government, everything will be ok?

can anyone cite the passages in the new law that purportedly expand the program to ‘anyone’ making as much as $80k a year? How about citing the part of the law that suppossedly opens it up to ‘anyone’ as old as 25?

C’mon, you’ve analized the legislation so well that you can come on here making those statements as if they are factual then you should be able to cite the passages that make them so.
I have a feeling that in the final analysis there are many caveats in the expansion to those groups, but the GOP political machine works by distorting the truth and attacking the opposition in the vilest manners possible, this is no different.

Delyrium – Actually those of us who fear socialized medicine, or socialized anything, know exactly what it is, it has failed everywhere it has been tried. The ones who are clueless are the ones who somehow think they can make it work.

funny, it worked so well in ancient times that when the spaniards arrived in the americans they were decimated from not being exposed to the vile disease that europeans had created for themselves by being filthy creatures that empied their chamberpots in the middle of the public streets.

it had some to do with the spaniards being filthy, but more to do with native immune systems hich has lost their immunity to “old world” diseases when they crossed the bering strait into the americas

also, acient cultures sacrificed peoples to the gods, im not so sure i want to totally go back to ancient times, just so that i can have the benefits of healthcare

as for Iraq coach, if you read my posts elsewhere on the subject, i have been critical on how the war has been conducted, however, for the strategic health of the region, it would be worse if we simply pull out

my main beef with turning everything over to the government is that it doesnt fix the situation–you merely trade one icompetent bureacracy for another…”good” health care for all is possible, but it would mean exhorbitantly high taxes, as in Canada, Britain, and Sweden…there is a tradeoff, but i dont want to see the current system replaced with DMV healthcare, i mean would that really be an improvement?

Jed – You would be referring to those ancient people who had an average lifespan of 40 years? Yeah that worked real well. That would be the same ancient people that had medicine men do dances to the gods to cure them. Yeah that’s the health care we need today. Are we going to sacrafice virgins as well?

It had alot more to do with the fact that the natives knew how to treat and cure disease quickly in the way that nature intended, their immune systems were just fine, they just where not prepared for the diseases nature had intended to decimate the europeans with. See, the americans, unlike the europeans, understood the value of good higene. Most of those ‘old world’ disease you speak of developed in europe centuries after the ‘land bridge’ you speak of disapeared.

Modern people sacrifice their children to OIL. To the pharmaceutical industry and to plain ignorance… how’s that any different?
Can you truly be sure of the intentions of the native people’s killing in those times based on the biased writings of spaniard priests who came not only to convert the people but to discredit their established religious and social systems?

BTW – the theory of the ‘land bridge’ is a bit absurd… it tends to imply that people were much more willing to walk along the ice on dangerous glaciers to an unknown land, not knowing if they would find fruitful pastures. Seems to me it ignores the fact that humans have been great seamen for tens of millenia and would have used small boats skirting the coast in many cases. In others, they used small boats to cross the pacific from the new zealand/fiji areas.

Yeah get it right, it’s Dumbocrats. I invented it I spell it…

What else would you expect from the Bushbots in Congress.

They’ll never get an “A” for independent thinking, or standing up for what their constituents want.

Just another sad day in DC.

Capped Piglet: Keep the vile in your pocket, bro.
If socialized health is so bad, then why are there so many socialized countries living longer than us? If it’s so bad, then why does it work there? Oh, wait, you said it doesnt’ work anywhere.

Dude, we’re 44th in the world for life expectancy. Australia, France, Canada, Italy are all in the top 15 using socialized care.

But, it doesn’t work? I hate to break it to you, but there’s other ways our country can make money, if that’s what you’re so worried about. Or, are you just one of those guys who likes to call people whiners?

Hey Middleman: Are you serious? A book on tact? You mean that same book the president had by his side when he said a vote for the democrats is a vote for the terrorists? Doesn’t sound like you’re anywhere in the middle.

“or heres one– dont have kids you cant afford”

So, apparently you are in favor of birth control? Why vote with the “social conservative” party then? The party to whom the greatest enemy is sex?

Do you disapprove of abortions as well? Even if the reason is to not have a kid one can’t afford?

Soloman: in this day and age, there is literally no excuse to have children if you cant afford them…with all of the high-tech contraceptives out there, one doesnt even really need abortion anymore, save for certain circumstances…its not like we’re living in the 1600s, we do have modern medicine available that will allow you not to have a kid if you cant afford it

and while i may be personally against abortion, law is law, and furthermore i believe people should have the right to one. i think its incredibly dangerous when the government starts dictated health related issues because it takes your health out of your hands and gives it to some bureaucrat…it becomes more of someone else deciding your behavior for you

Merk: “i think its incredibly dangerous when the government starts dictated health related issues because it takes your health out of your hands and gives it to some bureaucrat…it becomes more of someone else deciding your behavior for you”

Do you think we’re going to become like China, or something? I still don’t understand where you’re getting your inferences from. Government ‘controlling’ health? That doesn’t make sense to me. I understand saying government-run health is a monekeyfist. But, to say the government is going to make decisions on your health, I’m not quite sure what you’re referencing. Besides, what are you using as your information? Have we EVER had government-run health for the masses? So, since we never have, how do you know it won’t work?

Coach apparently RS does not want me to post a response to you.

“i think its incredibly dangerous when the government starts dictated health related issues because it takes your health out of your hands and gives it to some bureaucrat…”

You mean like an HMO?

I drive my car when I want to go someplace..
There are those,, I’ve been informed, who take ” Public Trans “, when they go places..
Maybe we can have a Health Care system like that,,
For folks who are willing to invest part of their income,, they get this HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
For those who do not wish to invest part of their income into Health Insurance, they get “that ” health care system..
” NOTICE the lower care on “that” health care system??
It’s AMERICA FOLKS,, we invented the term ” YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR “!!

Just scrolled through the BILL OF RIGHTS & THE CONSTITUTION,,
IT AINT THERE!!
No place is it said that every American has the right to Premium Service without paying for it..
SORRY,, It Ain’t there,, Ain’t never been there,,, Ain’t never going to be there..
Only thing the ” GUBMENT ” can do is what they usually do,,
LOWER THE STANDARD FOR EVERYONE SO THAT EVERYONE CAN BE EQUAL.
Look what they have done with public education..

Can anyone say that the “white” student is better off now, then when public schools were segregated??
What about the “black” student??

My Child goes to a ” segregated ” school,, but it’s not what you think..
My child goes to Private Schools where Parents are Required to Invest A Larger % Of their INCOME, than public school parents, Thus, most of the time,, the parent tends to spend more time with the child to make damn sure the child get’s an education. i.e. I’m damn sure going to get my monies worth!!
So in a way, Private Schools are Segregated Schools not segregated on color, race or sex,, but on Parental Participation.

So with this as a example of what ” GUBMENT ” and non government..
What type of HEALTH CARE do you want??

Hey Coach, two things. If the subject of this thread was in regards to Bush’s comments about a vote for Dems being a vote for terrorists, then yes I would have said that his statement was nothing more than childish hyperbole, but it’s not about that so I didn’t. Secondly, just because I think an alcoholic Dem acted like a jagoff on the floor of the House doesn’t mean I’m not a moderate. Moderates agree with both sides, not just yours. Maybe keep that in mind next time, Chief.

…POSSIBLY alcoholic Dem…

Coach scores a HomeRun!

Ummm-great post!

“Soloman” was supposed to be very wise. What happened!

You don’t want healthcare in the hands of the government(It did quite well for thirty years or so)and the costs were lower, the quality far better, and you Want Corporate to handle it(like it has thanks to Reagan)and it has multiplied, the care is pathetic, there is no limit to the charges and, forty-plus million Americans have no insurance!

Piggy and “Soloman” seem to have missed those little details!

Anyone noticing how serious and devastating the fires in southern California are?

*So many people losing their homes and the air is filled with smoke and ashes-very sad and challenging for those who are in the path of the flames, and the firefighters working hard to put the fires out*.

Cake,

Did you fly in? Must have some sight from above.

Great flight, but not a great sight when flying into my state(Southern Part), D.D.

It looks like a war zone when you see the areas that the smoke is not still obscuring.

MSNBC had Duncan Hunter on trying to convince us that the National Guard’s reduced numbers, the funding Bush and Republican buddies have tax-cutted for their wealthy business pals is not having a negative effect on putting out the fires.

Are there any Republican politicians left who speak the truth?

The all seem to resemble political puppets who have helped a scoundrel and his Bush League criminals rob the infra-structure so badly, that any state(Louisiana, Kansas, California, Mississippi, etc.)have been devastated with the reduced funding, reduced National Guard and, retardation of rescue efforts.

But, great consolation, fellow Californians-Bush is coming to town to make his usual “promises” to “Fix” the situation…

As in other states facing natural or man-made disasters, it means Californians are going to have to help each other, and rely on our very competent and courageous firefighters to get the job done.

Huge evacuations, not enough temporary housing and, so many hill and forest animals displaced.

Several of the Orange County fires were Arson-there’s some terriff imbeciles!

Californians are survivors and we will prevail-the winds are on the downlow, and lots of Volunteers!

Bush and his empty promises just needs to stay away! Our Lt. Governor is doing a great job!

Coach,

Lived there 70 – 72 but I’m sure it’s changed a lot. I don’t ‘do’ TV so much so I’m not sure the locations. If I had to guess I’d say it’s between Mesa and Poway.

I’m sure Georgie alit, patted a few folks on the back and told them they were doing a great job.

When it’s all over, why don’t you give us a summation, in case dildoes like myself miss it, as to lives, $$$, acres, homes, etc.

I remember the Oakland fire and I can’t imagine anything worse, but this sounds like it. At least for shere volume. The Oakland fire was probably more intense but more confined as well.

Just found out I have family in there. Didn’t realize it was up to Pendleton. I have family in Carlsbad and Oceanside. Doubt it will get that far, but jeez, look what it’s done already.