there’s a very weird gestalt rolling with george w. bush. there’s not too much more to say about that tragic figure. there can be no more surprises. anything mean and stupid works for him.

It is now elevated to malicious stupidity. No! Criminal stupidity.

Pissed in Pasadena,

How is the veto criminal? What crime was committed? Why has ‘criminal’ come to be the word liberals use to describe things they don’t like? Does that make Kucinich a criminal for voting against SCHIP?

it should have been voted down, it was a backdoor attempt at socialized medicine

why do people making 80,000 and above need coverage? And since when did the age of a “child” come to be defined as anyone up to 25? The bill was fin in its original state, and this clunker deserved to be vetoed

o.k. blood of whatever…perhaps it can be explained to you. it’s doubtful it can be understood for you.
i fail to see the term “liberal” applied. nor “conservative” for that matter. perhaps i’m asuming most of us can read…most of us.

This is another reminder exactly how Far Away the Republican Politicians are from the REality of life, as is experienced by most Americans.

“Not enough to support a 65 billion bill to provide health insurance for our Nation’s kids”, says Bush and lap-dogs(watch the media defend it with zillions of Bush-apologists)!

Maybe we can Declare “War” on the kids, and the Repulsicans will shell out $800 billion for that!

Michael Moore’s movie Enlightened us on the Health Care Scam and the Republicans have been riding that money Horse since Nixon!

“It will lead to socialized medicine”(same old and tired lie that circulated when Hillary went to the dark side), “it will give money to families who aren’t poor”.

Have you looked at health care costs lately? Even for those that make over sixty thousand a year, insuring three, four, five kids and parents can break the bank!

And, Our Congress enjoys Socialized Medicine and they do quite well! It’s provided by the government(oooooo-evil and scary)and has certainly done a good job for our Congressmen/women!

When the Government Regulated Health Care-prior to Reagan, Health insurance was affordable, the policies provided for the insured and, it was policed to make sure the standards were good and there were Caps on what insurance companies could charge.

Who benefits now? Insurance companies & execs, pharmaceutical companies and The Republicans who have given the companies Carte Blanche to do WhatEver they want and charge what they want, in return for big political donations!

Pharms & Insurance Co’s are at the top of the Republican Contributors -along with Big Oil…

Bush and his greedy Party need to be abolished…They want to fund only corps and groups that can result in big monetary/power payback for themselves and “their” Interests.

The poor, the middleclass, the sick are Not In The Repulsicans Be$t Interests….Get It?

Another heartless veto Bush is one of the worst presidents because he says he values life yet lies to get war, vetos health insurance for children and vetoed expanding stemcell research wich could help so many.

Simplifying for to spread propaganda much?

Will all who have actually read the bill please step forward and explain!!

Hmmm, where ARE you??

The bill gives the States the DISCRETION to choose who above the threshold may or may not receive benefits. It’s a broadening designed to cover any extraordinary cases which might emerge. In a word, it’s flexible. Bush knows that.

Now, if the States can’t be trusted to equitably manage the program then it’s incumbent upon the Feds to see that it is. But it is NOT the fault of the program.

Good stuff Cake. I forget, sometimes, that Congress has granted themselves all manner of exclusive benefits not availed to the general public. Perhaps THAT should be an issue raised at the next debate. Oops, forgot MSM is managing the debates.

Ole, were Cake’s arguments articulated enough for you? Or were they too ‘incindiary’ (sic)?

a significant amount of one ups-manshp can’t be a solution. MSM? so what. do we infact require some wiccan ritual to know what’s going on? does it require a law degree or legislative experience on capitol hill to deciver right from wrong?
the veto sucked. period. where are notions of “reason” and the common good?

Bush didn’t cut the program. He simply did not expand the program. But the Media and the Dems are quick to say “Bush Hates Children”.

I also loved the press conference where Harry Reed was speaking as Nancy Pelosi was holding the little African-American kid. Nice photo op! You know as soon as the cameras were turned off Nancy said, “Someone take this kid out of here”. Nice Politics for 2008!

from Mr. Olay:

“Why has ‘criminal’ come to be the word liberals use to describe things they don’t like?”

Oh man, this is perfect. I hope some of the other people here get it. That just made my day. I think I just found a new definition of irony and hypocrisy.

Still, the point itself is valid. He is within his constitutional role as part of the executive branch as far as I know.

“Still, the point itself is valid. He is within his constitutional role as part of the executive branch as far as I know.”

Exactly, why not use a word that is more descriptive? If Bush is not a criminal, why call him a criminal. That seems like a meaningless waste of time. I hate to point out the obvious.

would ‘the impeached’ be better for you? how about ‘the departed’ even better.

You people are wasting your time about arguing whether this program was ’socialized medicine’.
You need to accept the fact that ’socialized’ nations LIVE LONGER THAN WE DO. Why can’t we have both? Socialized and privatized health care? Why not? Hallz? Merk? Blood? If the post office/ups can do it, why not health care?

Stop being against anything liberal, please. Sorry, but after months of reading posts from Hallzee, Capitalist Pig, Blood, and Merkiuqngokjqvopqe, I’ve come to realize that you guys abhor anything liberal. And, in your mind, it’s the liberals that should get the blame for everything. I’d like to see a list of the problems America faces today and find out who caused those problems.
Health Care: For-profit because of Republicans.
Fuel Economy: Lackluster because of Republican intervention and acceptance of lobbying money.
Terrorism: Who do you think continues to fuel the fire of the jihadists? Western oil.
Immigration: Republicans won’t do anything about the people who hire them.

Those are just a few examples of how the Republican party, not the liberal party, is at fault for a lot of our ‘problems’.

So, I’ll wait for the typical response from the right……………

I think you are wrong. I definitely would be willing to get behind social medicine. I just don’t think anyone (except for Kukucinich) has proposed such a plan. I think that social medicine is more like infrastructure than say, subsidized housing. I am all for it. I am not for these piecemeal plans that are being tossed around. I want a full-on socialized medicine revolution. I think that could be pulled off. I think a system of credits and piecemeal, patchwork funding isn’t going to do much to fix a system as broken as ours – that backlash is liable to set back socialized medicine even further. I sympathize with your criticism of a one-sided political perspective, but I am definitely not guilty as charged – definitely ferociously conservative in many ways, but open-minded to good ideas, even when they are voiced by the bleeding-hearts.

i too have stated that i would be ok if there was socialized medicine, so long as we follow the british model–the system has a safety net for those who need it, while allowing people who are financially well off, or those who simply dont want health care to opt out

and Definition of IS, i’m not conservative, i’m libertarian, and there’s a BIG difference between the two…i dont really have a problem with liberals, its just that for me the liberal perspective relies on the power of government, as opposed to the individual, too much

i’m all for having choices, but i dont want the system we have now, nor do i want everybody thrown onto some government montrosity of a health plan…again, the government can barely handle the issuing of passports, but you want to hand over your health to these people? fine by me, but leave me, and others like me(and there are plenty of us) out of it if we so choose

oh, and btw, the entire govt, republican and democrat, are both corrupt and equally have stakes in the industries you listed, so instead of blindy spouting “Republicans Evil! blah blah blah” you might want to expand it to both parties, or government in general

Sorry liberals, here’s the real source of America’s problems.

Health Care: Trial attorneys like John Edwards getting rich on medical malpractice suits thus raising the cost of premiums and making healthcare unaffordable
Fuel Economy: Environmental restrictions on oil refineries restricting our oil processing capacity and raising prices
Terrorism: Bush, Clinton, and Bush’s inablility to address extremism and polarization in the Middle East in a globalized world
Immigration: “Big Governments” inabiltiy to process legal immigrants, enforce immigrant labor law, or enforce the border

Sorry Mike, here’s the real source of Americas problems:

Government corruption.

Want the solution? Strict enforcement of the Constitution.

“What may work for Bush”, is not be working for the American people.

“Mike”

Those horrible “trial lawyers” who have caused the insurance companies to Rule the Kingdom.

Deregulation- lousy Republican legislation, favors, tax cuts for the Corporate and, No caps on insurance rates is the Reason our health care system is in this huge mess.(If you work in the health care industry, you see the corruption and it is The Insurance Companies and Pharmacueticals that have been raking in and this administration’s and its Party’s long look the other way while it continues to sky rocket.

Millions of this Nation’s children have No health insurance-Bush simply wants to pander to oil, the military industrial complex, Corporate to Keep an immoral “war” going, while Neglecting, badly, the needs of Americans who live Under the Kingdum(that fall between the cracks) and not Over the Kingdum like Bush and his Party…

More billions, More death-thanks Bush! Thanks, Republicans who block any Change for the Better in Policy. Destruction and Death is your “Leagacy”.

D.D. has it Right.

Cake,

Welcome back. Short trip?

DefIs,

You stick around kid, we need many different voices. We may not all agree, but we can hash away at it.

Unless you’re a reincarnate? Which is okay too.

Thanks DD. Not a reincarnate or a born-again. Just a typical liberal who wants to quit ‘taking it’ at the pump.
Just a typical liberal who’s tired of industry deciding legislation.
Just another typical liberal who’s sick and tired of lax gun laws.
Just another typical liberal that wants socialized health care.

Funny how the party of ‘life’ is actually against extending life (stem-cell veto), FOR execution, and against anything that represents ’socialized’ medicine (SCHIP veto). That same party is against all taxes and, yet, that’s their biggest complaint against the illegal immigrants (they don’t pay their taxes).

Here’s to NOT being a part of the conhypocrite party……

Mike-
Concerning your remark on energy. Refining capacity is nothing compared to rising demand in Asia. This can’t be pinned on liberals. You provided a nice convenient, but false, explanation for the energy problem. You sound like a liberal pinning it on Bush.

Blood: “You sound like a liberal pinning it on Bush”

That, my friend, is an uncalled for statement.
Liberals pin it on Bush because GAS PRICES ROSE 2 BUCKS DURING HIS PRESIDENCY. UNPRECEDENTED.

Personally, I don’t see how people can argue it. He’s an oil man from an oil family with oil friends and some people think he wouldn’t deliberately do things to enrich his oil friends? Wake up people.

DefIs,

To paraphrase, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.

That said, I don’t think Bush to do something like that premediditavily (?). I believe it’s pathological. He doesn’t know he’s bias. But Cheney does.

Look at the last three GOP Prezs. There’s no ‘there’ there. But all three set out to change the world. One has to wonder, who’s calling the shots?

Oil and gasoline are commodities, they are traded in open markets all over the world, the supply and demand issues that determine price cannot be commanded to obey.

Blood: Are you denying the ability to ‘control’ the price that’s traded on the open market?

Scenario – The ‘threat’ of terrorism, and the perpetration of the propoganda raises the price for fear of supply interruption.

The problem is the fact that it’s ‘traded as a commodity’. It’s more of a necessity than a commodity. There SHOULD be caps on the price. At least until other options become available.

“Oil and gasoline are commodities, they are traded in open markets all over the world, the supply and demand issues that determine price cannot be commanded to obey.”

Refining capacity determines the price of oil in the U.S. and U.S. companies determine the ability to refine oil which affects price. The lack of refinery companies invites the prospect of price-fixing which is why oil costs what it does in the U.S.

The truth is the United States could be fueled by oil produced by a few square miles of algae. The oil lobby simply pays a lot for that not to happen.

there are many sources to america’s oil problems, and everybody has touched on them–lack of refining capability, rising demand in the asian market, the thugs setting the prices in OPEC, and a general sluggishness by the industry to embrace something other than its lifeblood, and also a move toward acheap and easy(but not correct) solution in ethanol, etc

but i think its too simplistic to boil bush’s total motivation for everything down to “he’s only in it to enrich his oil friends”…and we really are in no condition to complain about our oil, the Europeans pay as much as 8 bucks a gallon…thats not to say this isnt a problem but in terms of price gouging, we havent really hit the full force of it, yet

Merkwurkwurbklkbfe:
C’mon man. Why the benefit of the doubt to the oil industry and Bush? Evolution in the energy industry has been suppressed for many, many years. Diesel was suppressed. Electric cars have been suppressed. Hydrogen has been suppressed.
It’s quite an anomoly. When it comes to electronics, companies release gadgets immediately. When it comes to transportation, those ‘new’ forms of fuel never make it to the market. And, yet, people still actually believe that a conspiracy to oppress/suppress innovation is impossible.
Another thing: The appeasers need to quit referrencing Europe’s price for gas. They use less, and EVERYTHING costs more than it does here. Europe’s price for gas has absolutely nothing to do with the fundamental argument. That argument is this: Offer us something else to fuel our automobiles with, or put a price cap on oil. You can’t have both. We need to end the monopoly on fuel.

It’s unfortunate that it takes people 20-30 years to actually get a vision of things. Put an oil man with oil family and oil friends in the oil(oval) office and he’s going to enrich is oil friends. Why is that such a difficult thing to imagine?

Isn’t John Edwards being accused of appeasing his health industry lawyers if he becomes president? But, apparently, Bush wouldn’t do that…….

Sidebar regarding the last few posts referencing our oil addiction:

It seems a big part of our population is okay with our government spending our tax dollars invading/occupying/bombing/ove rthrowing countries based on a ‘what if’. Examples: terrorism, fascism, communism….etc.

But, those same people are completely against our government putting our tax dollars toward industry innovation. In other words, subsidized business start-up. People would throw a fit if our government dedicated 100 million toward the solar industry, but it’s okay to subsidize the oil industry, which doesn’t even NEED subsidization.

These are the ideologies our country is faced with. Some people see, understand, and are willing to face the future and innovation. Some people are willing to do whatever it takes to keep the status quo.

Stagnation leads to extinction.

Coach-

I think Bush put $250 million into alternative energy in 2006 – with $170 million going to solar.

Blows-

“Put an oil man with oil family and oil friends in the oil(oval) office and he’s going to enrich is oil friends. Why is that such a difficult thing to imagine?”

If the a high-price on oil is the object of the game that Bush is playing, why not just set a floor on the price of oil at $1000 a barrel, maybe just $100 a barrel? He could call it a measure aimed at reducing greenhouse emissions. Or maybe instead of invading Iraq, he might have invaded Saudi Arabia. Hell, there was plenty of inteligence that he could have been strung together post-9/11 to provide a justification for war at least as solid as what was used to support the invasion of Iraq. Why not just roll back fuel-efficiency standards? Why not place an embargo on Russian oil? Why not pursue drilling in ANWAR more aggressively? Why not subsidize oil even more?

I will tell you the answer to all of these questions: the world is a helluva lot more complicated than you think it is. People who are much smarter than you get paid big bucks to guess how shifting geopolitical circumstances will effect prices on commodities like oil, or earnings of corporations like Exxon. You are naive to the extreme, if you think people like Bush and Cheney can just waive their hands and capture wealth.

Ole,

Naivety might also apply to one who thinks Bushney’s an altruist bent on making the world a better place to live. Complicated? You betcha. Bushney is a VERY flawed animal. A little reading on its evolution and development will reveal more cynicism, selfishness and demagoguery than compassion, generosity and goodwill.

I have never stated or implied that the administration is altruistic. I don’t think there is a single candidate out there, except Kukucinich that claims to act from altruist motives. Of course they spit plenty of jive that implies that they love us, but these little white lies don’t hurt anyone. They are for the simpleton-crowd. I don’t think there is a single administration that has enacted an altruistic policy-program. I’ll also add that any candidate who claims to be an altruist (again, except for a dweeb like Kukucinich) is probably someone to fear. You want to talk about a return of the Reich? A politician that is explicitly trying to convince you that he is selflessly concerned for you is someone to watch very carefully.

Ole,

Did I say YOU implied altruism. No, no, no. I was merely speaking metaphorically AS, I assumed, were you. You didn’t REALLY mean to imply that Arby believed Bushney waived (your word) his hand and acquired wealth. Did you? Actually, Bushney bends over, purses his lips and acquires wealth.

If I did something wrong then I apologize. Isn’t that how Rush and spoiled athletes do it?

reading more into the piece than is really there allows him to focus on a perceived threat and act on it without second thought, it would be too cumbersome. You know, like the administration and all it’s dealings. It’s all about politics and bashing the opponent regardless of how absurd the accusation or how stupid it makes the accuser look.

I have been away for a while, and this thread is a bit old but what the hell, it is a great time to jump in the fray, since there is very interesting news out today about the Canadian health care system that the left loves to point to as justification for socialized medicine. It seems the great Canadian system is having to send women to the U.S. to have babies.

“Canada’s socialized health care system, hailed as a model by Michael Moore in his documentary, “Sicko,” is hurting, government officials admit, citing not enough money for more equipment and staff to handle high risk births.

Sarah Plank, a spokeswoman for the British Columbia Ministry of Health, said a spike in high risk and premature births coupled with the lack of trained nurses prompted the surge in mothers heading across the border for better care”

Bush did the right thing in vetoing this back door attempt at socialized medicine. And Tim they are not “our kids”, I did not have them, I did not concieve them, it is not my job to take care of them. That is the job of their parents.

wonder what is causing the increase in premature births and the other complications that is overwhelming their healthcare system. Possibly some of those chemicals we are being exposed to? We are sold on death by chemistry and then wonder why the healthcare system is so saturated by cancer cases and other man made illnesses.

British Columbia is NOT Canada.

But what do you expect from one who gets his ‘news’ from TV.

DirtyDennis | 10/11/2007, 7:46 am EST

British Columbia is NOT Canada.

But what do you expect from one who gets his ‘news’ from TV.
—————————-

So BC is not Canada, so tell me genius if BC is not part of Canada, what country is it part of?

Or are you trying to imply this is an isolated incident and not reflective of the whole failed socialized medical system? Well you would be wrong there as well. 1 out every 5 Canadians received treatment in the U.S. last year.

what a goof ball, BC is not canada, it is a province thereof.
1 in 5… ??!!?? where do you get your facts from? the oxycontin king? the ‘hillbily heroin’ meister rush limbaugh?

Jed,

We have to be patient whilst he digests that.

Talk about a goof ball, jed you are the definition of the word. Here is a little insight for you. Since we are talking about “national health care”, then a failure in one part of the country equals a failure of the system as a whole. Another nice little point worth noting, the left screams for socialized medicine because the current system does not cover everyone. Well even liberal estimates say only about 15% are not covered, 85% are, yet it seems Canada’s great system leaves about 20% not covered.

we want health care that works for the majority in the most efficient and cost effective manner possible. A system in which people are cured of their disease rather than having their symptoms ‘treated’ for perpetuity. We want a system in which medicines are thoroughly studied and investigated to not only make sure they work as advertized but to ensure they don’t have unforseen side effects like exploding heart muscles. We want a system where a person can go get diagnosed for $50 or $60 dollars without having to wait in a crowded waiting room for 27 hrs. We want a health care system that makes sense, that isn’t stacked in favor of corporations that would stiffle new technologies because they jeopardize their stranglehold on the economics of medicine. In short, we want something that actually works for the benefit of the society as a whole, regardless of the fu*ked up lable you wish to slap on it, instead of the bloated, innefficient, skewed, system we now have which is designed to benefit one entity alone… the health insurance industry and the companies that monopolize all it’s stages.

Bravo Jed.