absurd… israel is fine… it already has nukes. israel isn’t afraid of a fight… it’s afraid of a fair fight.

i think israel can take care of itself…hopefully bolton is saying that the US would only approve of such a strike, not help, but who knows

In criminal law, self-defense it is a complete defense. That means it gets you completely off the hook. If a man across the street is brandishing a gun and shouting that he is going to shoot you, you have a complete defense to shoot him down before he has a chance to pull the trigger. It is perfectly legitimate for Israel to take preemptive measures against the Mullahs of Tehran who have not shut up about the annihilation of state of Israel and proved they mean it through all the terrorist activities against Israel.

Morph, you’re at it again. You have to understand one thing: The same feeling you have for your ‘leaders’ in Iran, we have for our leaders. You think your leaders are crazy whackjobs. We think the same thing of our leaders. But, here’s the thing: Your argument is flawed. Iran is definitely saying the things that would cause a stir, but they’re not ‘pointing a gun at anybody’. They don’t have the gun (nuke) yet, so you’re saying people should bomb them based on what they’ve said. If that’s the case, and pre-emptive strikes are okay on a global scale, then road rage should be easy to take care of, without repercussions: Just run the guy off the road…..
Morph: As much as I agree that Ahmadinajead is a bit wacky, it’s still just words. If you start justifying ivasions, and bombings based on words, then wars will be going on infinitely.
I feel bad for you and your people about all the oppression and suppression, but why is that America’s business? Why aren’t you calling out to Russia? Why is it America’s job to play global cop?

So Iran has no nukes and we prepare to bomb them. Korea has nukes and we don’t. Seems to me, nukes are a great defensive measure to keep bullies from pushing you around.

The Islamic regime is a mutual enemy.

well symorgh, since you’re inside of iran, the only thing that will really topple the mullahs is the iranian people…you guys have already proven you have revolution in your blood…then again, i cant really speak on the matter since i’m not in country

the more and more people speak out against the mullahs inside iran the better…the whole world is watching, and real change has to start from the ground up

John Bolton is right, if Israel does it alone we should back them,an allied airstrike would be better so one country dosent take the blame or possible reprisals.

Ray, you need to enlist. Our military needs more men like you. But, unless you’re going to enlist, you need to have an open mind and stop spewing “allied airstrike” everytime you open your mouth.
Have you ever been to Iran. Do you know for sure that what you’ve heard/read is true about their alleged nuclear intentions? Have you talked to their leaders?
You’re sure deadset on bombing Iran, but you want to make sure someone else does it with us? Why? To ‘look’ better. You, obviously, subconsciously know it’s a bad thing. That’s why you want someone else to take the fall with us.
Please, please, do us a favor, and start addressing the facts. Otherwise, you’re just taking up space in this forum. You’d be better off spewing this kind of garb to people of same mind.

Andy,

Israel isn’t “Afraid of a fair fight”. Israel is afraid of being attacked with nukes. Sure Israel has nukes but they have no plans of Attacking Iran with them. But Iran has made bold threats in front of the world that their goal is to “Blow Israel From The Map”. How do you think Iran can achieve that goal?

Meanwhile Mayor Bloomburg is giving the Iranian Leader a Secret Service Guided Tour Of Ground Zero. Unbelievable!

Hallzee, it’s NOT unbelieveable. The dude from Iran who said ‘Israel should be blown off the map’ is just a talking head. Did you forget Iran is an ally of ours as recently as a couple of years ago?
It’s all a matter of who you believe. You, obviously believe Bush.
I, personally, believe the FACTS. Iran DOES NOT have a nuclear weapon. They’re NOT going to use it and risk getting ‘blown off the map’. The talking head, Ahmadinajead, is just spewing. They have NO intention of using their one nuclear weapon. It is protection, period.
Answer me this Hallpass: Why WOULD they use their ONE nuclear weapon when they get it in 3-10 years? It can be tracked………

There is a reason nobody has used nuclear/atomic weapons except us. And, that same reason is the reason nobody WILL use nuclear weapons. The ramifications from the United States will be bold, and exact. Sure, our retaliation might get us blown off the map, but Iran sure won’t be around anymore. If everyone wants us to bomb Iran, why don’t we just wait until they give us a REAL reason. Not just rhetoric.
Should we blow Rush O’Reilly off the map for saying they wish liberals would be ‘blown off the map’?????/

Coach, i think the international comunity should step up and be a part of any action against Iran both the airstrike and for humanatarian aide afterward if needed.

Look we are going to attack Iran. Well informed people have known this for months. The issue isn’t Iran or their alleged help of anti-US insurgents in Iraq. The crime Iran is guilty of is trying to open an oil exchange market in Tehran based on the euro.

Right now oil is exchanged in London and NYC markets and is tied to the dollar and is known as the pertodollar. For a long time it has kept the dollar value inflated. How else do you explain the largest debtor nation in the history of the world still having a currency of value?

Anyway, the opening of an oil market would create an environment where the world could trade oil with the euro, which is a much more stable currency then the dollar. This would cause the dollar to crash and ruin the US economy.

We can’t have that, God forbid we pay the price for our own foolish economic policies, so we attack Iran and keep the value of the dollar tied to the value of a barrel of oil. Just another war based on economic, just like ever single war we have been in.

Educate yourselves and write your senators and congressmen.

Reality,
My take has nothing to do with believing Bush since many people in Washington both Right and Left believe that Iran is a threat (For more reasons than oil and the euro like Alfred believes). I do believe that, though he may be a “Talking Head” as you stated, he still should not be treated like a guest of this country since he is Anti-American, he does support terrorism, his country does provide weapons to Iraqi insurgents, and he was a kidnapper who held American Hostages in the late 70s. I agree that Iran was once an Ally but Japan and Germany were once enemies. Loyalties change.
And I agree that Iran doesn’t have a nuke yet, but that doesn’t mean they are not working on one as we speak. And do we really want them to possess that kind of leverage? You can bet Israel doesn’t want to take that risk. I also find it funny that you referenced Rush and O’Rielly (and Not Bill Press, Harry Reed, Randy Rhodes etc) considering though they are all talking heads I don’t see them giving National Speeches to the country with threats of destruction to other countries. I believe Ahmadinajead carries a little more clout than a “talking head”.

I respect your takes and appreciate the debate.

“Look we are going to attack Iran. Well informed people have known this for months.”

Such as?

I’m not being facetious, I truly am curious what political figures have already decided that this country is planning on invading Iran.

Coach
I am sorry but you sound as if you really don’t know much about the Mullahs and the Islamic regime. You are trying to be sensible and reasonable. It is only on that basis that you are advocating what you are. That is all alright if the other side were also sensible and reasonable but they are not at all reasonable people, them Mullahs. If you want to know what kind of mindset they have just search the net. You and all the people who simply are against war no matter what should study the enemy that you think you should talk to first, must try to learn a little bit more about them. Because your enemy wants you to submit to its demand and nothing less would do. Do you understand what the Mullahs want? Are you prepared to make those concessions simply because you want to avoid war? In the present situation regrettably you have no choice. It is not a war that you will start: it is a war that they have waged upon you and you are already in it.

Morph. Thanks. However, nobody ever said anything about talking to them. I think the best solution for everyone is isolation. If they are what you say they are, then why fight fire with fire. Why not isolate the fire, and let it burn out? So to speak………
Again, why do you and ray think America should play god when it comes to the middle east. Is this middle east helping us fix our racism problems here in America? Are they fixing our health system?
Again, why should America play god with a region that doesn’t want America around?

symorgh,

Well said. I agree that the Mullahs were fighting us long before 9/11 and the Iraq war and they won’t stop fighting until they win. I am afraid that the new Democratic Administration will try to negotiate with the Mullahs and not think of them as an enemy. I am worried that there are Mullah Extremists in this country now that want to attack us. But where do you draw the line between protecting America and a National
“Witch Hunt”?

Coach,

Maybe that is the racism you speak of? Otherwise I would like to hear about the Racism that you believe is an issue in this country that outweighs National Security. Maybe we are talking about the mistreatment of Donovan McNabb? Although, I do like your Isolation take. Bring our Troops home, protect our borders and concentrate on this country. But remember, like it or not, we are at the mercy of the Middle East concerning our Energy Resources and our global interests.

Ray,

You’re like a wart that won’t go away. You wrote:
“if Israel does it alone we should back them,an allied airstrike would be better so one country dosent take the blame or possible reprisals.”

You must not be a United States citizen. I can’t think of anything worse for U.S. national security than to allow our country to take the blame for Israeli air strikes. Go home and fight your own war.

Alfred, you wrote:
“so we attack Iran and keep the value of the dollar tied to the value of a barrel of oil.”

The value of the dollar has never been tied to the value of a barrel of oil. Ask yourself why the value of the dollar has fallen while the value of a barrel of oil has risen. This would seem to torpedo your entire argument.

Symorgh: “If you want to know what kind of mindset [them Mullahs] have just search the net.”

What websites are you looking at? And do you mean we should only search the English -speaking net since most of us don’t know Arabic? Do you really think you can learn a foreigner’s mind WHEN YOU CAN’T EVEN SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE?

Hallzee,

“Sure Israel has nukes but they have no plans of Attacking Iran with them.”

Wrong. Israel is considering tactical nuclear strikes against Iran with nukes of limited capacity as we speak. Wake up.

Hallzee,

We are not necessarily at the mercy of the middle east. The U.S. imports most its oil from Canada and if alternate energy ramps up, we can reduce our dependence on mid east crude.

And to think, those cons saying all those “green hippies” were crazy. I don’t mean to gloat of course.

Word I am an american. That you dont understand that Israel and America have the same enemies shows no knowledge of history or current events. i try to be objective, you may not care about Israel i do.

Ray: “That you dont understand that Israel and America have the same enemies shows no knowledge of history or current events”…….
Thing is Ray, we DO understand current events. That makes us understand WHY we have ‘enemies’. There’s a fundamental difference in the admission of enemies. The right doesn’t care WHY we have enemies. They think everyone should live like/under us. The left realizes WHY we have ‘enemies’ and wants to do more diplomaticly. Thing is: Is fighting fire with fire the right thing to do. Some people think it is. But, seems to me, after learning about history and current events, fighting fire with fire actually CREATES enemies.
Isolation Ray. Isolation. Being isolated (jailed) tends to relieve anyone of your possible threat……

RealityBlows, how is wanting an international effort against terror and rouge nuke programs isolation?

Reality Bites, i didnt get your remark about isolation to start with. isolating Iran would be hard to do blockcading the Persian gulf and trying to enforce a no fly zone would only delay theinevetable.

Ray, I was saying isolation is my answer to their ‘threats’. Your thoughts are definitely NOT isolating anybody.

Realitysucks

The US has tried to isolate the Islamic regime for the last 30 years. You are another one who hasn’t a clue about this at all!

Symorgh: It’s totally and completely apparent that you’ll accept nothing but a bombing or Iran. Well, you’re about to get your wish, to the dismay of the rest of us. Anyway, HOW IN ANY FANTASY WORLD IS THE THIRD LARGEST OIL SUPPLIER BEING ISOLATED IN YOUR MIND??
You, obviously, don’t understand what isolation really means. It means taking away their largest revenue source. And, NO, I don’t mean going in and taking it from them. I mean the major industrialized nations making a determined effort to get off oil. THAT, my friend, is isolation. No exports, no imports.
So, for the love of Pete, quit trying to tell us we don’t know what the hell is going on. WE are the ones trying to learn from history. You are the ones being reactionary, which is EXACTLY what the ‘terrorists’ want.

Funny observations:
“Iran is a supporter of terrorism”. So is America. The U.S. has been supply arms to sunni militias for years.

“A nuclear Iran is dangerous.” Isn’t ANYONE with a nuclear weapon dangerous?

It’s funny. I don’t understand the amount of emotion being stirred up about Iran. We have more nukes than anybody on the planet and we’re worried about Iran getting one in a few years?

Remember this: Patriotism can be used in many, many ways. But, using it is the last resort for a scoundrel.

Iran is no different than anybody else. They DO fund terrorists, so do we, so does Saudi, so does Pakistan, so does China, so does…………

They ARE dangerous to somebody. Just not the U.S. is all. But, the U.S. is dangerous, also.

Be fundamental people. Islam has been around as long as Christianity. Does Islam rule America? No. Will it? No. Not as long as you can have a thought for yourself. Strip that from people, THEN you have to worry.

RealityBlows

The kind of isolation you are talking about is actually a worse atrocity against the ordinary Iranians as it will add to and prolong their suffering under the Islamic regime.

Coach

Can you prove to us that you are patriotic American national?

I can prove I am a patriotic Iranian: Tu be nazar miresi maamoor az sefarate jomhoory-e eslami bashi va shayad yek tarafdare alghaedeh ya hezbullah. chon hamash az regime defa mikoni!

…easy for you to say.

DirtyDennis

I could argue with you that Bush and Cheney have been very patriotic towards mankind to have rescued Iraqis and Afghanis from the claws of two horrendous regimes and now want to the same to the Iranians!

Jimmy Carter is the man who helped Ayatollah Khomeini take over the Iranian revolution against the old Shah ( an American ally) for democracy and turn it into a Mullahcocy. He is still supporting the Mullahs!!

As an Iranian I like the Bush’s Patriotism towards mankind than the so called left. Thank you very much!

Thanks for the kind words Dirty One. I appreciate the support.
So, symorphian, let me see if I get this straight. You’d RATHER us bomb Iran than get off of oil and take their revenue? You’d rather kill millions of people? And you’re questioning somebody else’s patriotism?
My definition of patriotism is EXACTLY the same as Dennis’. We’re ALL human. We just play for different teams, so to speak. I play for America. However, I value the lives of the people who play on other teams. Just because they may not value life the way I do, doesn’t mean they should die. It just means you don’t do business with them, and if they step out of line, punish them. But, words are definitely not a felony. Nor means for invasion/bombing/occupation,re volution. Remember, if words were the case, our President should’ve been thrown in jail a long time ago for saying: “A vote for the Democrats is a vote for the terrorists.”

RealityBlows
I am absolutely certain you and DirtyDennis are dyslexic identical twins!

As an Iranian living in the US, I am amazed at the ignorance of some of my Iranian countrywo/men. The problem with this kind of thinking is that you can almost never be able to change it. This type of ideology is one-sided/one-track and itself a form of terrorism.

I think most of the Iranian with this type of ideology live in the West and are far and detached from the Iranian culture. Unfortunately, most have not visited their homeland for perhaps decades and have been under the influence of the powerful propaganda media in the USA. Most of all, they have no idea as to the consequence of an American attack in Iran will result. (You don’t know what you are missing till you lose it).

Saying all this, I feel sorry for Symorgh or the like of her. However, I know this view is in minority and most Iranian think in a much broader term.

Thanks for all the great posts. I am learning a lot.

Sorry didn’t finish the last sentence.

One must be very ignorant of what goes on in Iran and what the Islamic regime has been doing for the last 30 years to unwittingly support a regime that wants to rule the world with its medieval principles and values.

The latest post on this site regarding the Dollar going down and out is one of the front lines in this holy war waged against you and seems you are losing it!

Symorphian: You live in a fantasy world. Islam will NEVER take over the world. It will only dominate little regions. YOUR region. We’ve been on this dirt for over 300 years, and where is Islam? Why can’t it get a strong foothold here? It’s called laws, my friend. Decorrupt your police. Oust your leaders. Do whatever it takes. But the last thing you want is for America to have anything to do with you. Focus on Iraq.
And, if it’s going to take Iran 3-10 years to GET the bomb, how are they going to rule the world when we have 10 thousand of them?

Coach –

In case no one told you, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Have you been to London lately? The demographics of Europe are changing fast. Europe is increasingly becoming a Muslim society. Why NOT the US?

western europe, mr. olay…eastern europe is doing just fine with their muslim problems either through eradication (the Balkans) or through economic autarky (i.e. Polish workers do work in poland, as opposed to Algerians contributing large parts of France’s economy, Turks in WESTERN germany, etc)

i wouldnt worry though…Europe has a nasty history of dealing with problematic minorities…you watch, and its already happening in eastern germany, where fascism is regaining hold, the more muslims create trouble in europe, the more and more response you’ll see from European nationalist groups

I noticed that there were many more people immigrants from ‘muslim’ countries in Moscow last summer than I had seen in the past. I also saw some TV commercials that sounded like the Russian equivalent of the Minutemen. I agree with you. I was merely pointing out that Islam is not fragmented; there is a strong presence throughout the world. So why not the USA?

Ole,

You a Ruskie? My wife is from Ukraine.

Russkie-Uky

1-morgh,

If you like to attack Iran, there go and do it yourself. You must think we don’t care about our lives the way you are trying to encourage us to go to war again.

M[ull]ah
You will be eradicated from Iran by Iranians. That is for sure.

Morph,

I’m impressed. Not about your prediction, as you know, but about your insight. So, what does YOUR name ‘mean.’

Symorgh ==> bird of paradise

Wow, that’s a pretty oblique reference. That would have been number 743,528 on my list of guesses.

How scary!

That all the Cons will be conned, again, and give their blessing to another “Pre-emptive Strike”.

Do any of the “Bush administration” have any open discussion/negoiation capabilities?

You never seem to learn.

This is a duplication of our Foray(nice clean little word) into Iraq and all the repercussions to come-this time it may bring our country into the thick of it not just our troops!

To those who just can’t “enjoy the power” unless it is being aimed at another country who marches to a different government, it might just be the “War” that keeps on giving-involving the World.

Ahmadinejad has nothing on you-the brain power between you, is stupefying!