What do you expect, the man has a failing mid-east agenda. Circle the wagons, damn the torpedoes and all that good stuff.

Ahhh, so Iran would not use a nuke cause you said so. Good ta know. can I ask, why do you not dread the neo-hitler of Iran having the bomb?

Thanks for deleting my post again.

“Connie”, God wants to bless the World.

Humans who are slow on intellect, quick to make a buck for themselves, lusting for power they are not capable of handling, anxious to focus on the differences and cultures of other countries and exploit them and, filled with tunnel vision as to why God only is concerned with America…

Discussion, intellect, wisdom, treaties, attempting to unite nations, not occupy them, no “Pre-emptive Strikes” concerns for the economy(education, health care)should be lessons learned from the mistakes/plots of the past seven years.

Seems the Rerun Team is out to ignite World War III-we never seem to learn, now do we?

Word, its in our best interest, to put together an allied airstrike one country should not do it alone.

“Word, in order for there to be an airstrike against Iran There should be a UN resolution supporting it, with an allied air force making the raids, that way Syria and Egypt cant use it for an excuse to attck Israel.”

There will never be a U.N. resolution supporting an attack on Iran. Both China and Russia would veto one. There was never a U.N. resolution supporting an attack on Iraq either yet I doubt you were against invading Iraq.

Egypt would never attack Israel if Israel attacked Iran. They have no reason to: they would lose the massive amount of aid/war technology we give them and they aren’t reliant on Iran for oil. Israel won’t attack Egypt any time soon so that won’t be a concern either. If Israel attacked Iran Egypt would sit on the sidelines screaming like the rest of the world would (sans Russia and China).

Syria would probably respond in some way but Syria is small potatoes. The Israeli army could take out the armies of both countries if it wanted to.

So again, the question was “why is is “better” for the U.S. to attack Iran instead of Israel attacking Iran?” How is this at all in our interest?

Good Luck on that after the last major UN resolution

Word, in order for there to be an airstrike against Iran There should be a UN resolution supporting it, with an allied air force making the raids, that way Syria and Egypt cant use it for an excuse to attck Israel.

Ray,
“Word, the delicate situation dictates that an allied air strike would be better than an Israeli only strike.”

Please elaborate. By what you’ve posted I disagree. The “delicate situation” does not dictate that an allied air strike would be better than an Israeli one. A strike on Iran is not in the U.S. national interest. Period. If Israel is threatened, let Israel respond.

If you can prove differently go right ahead.

Ray:
We have tortured and tormented hundreds of ‘cab drivers’ from Afghanistan and Iraq at abu ghraid and gitmo. And, we extradited many of those same ‘prisoners’ to Syria where they can be tortured further. We have funded and supplied militia groups in Saudi Arabia for many years. It would be hypocritical of us to NOT allow them nukes. They are surrounded by nukes and are doing their part to defend themselves. Imagine, if you will, Mexico and Canada having nuclear power, but not us.
You’re going to have to come up with a better argument in this forum. Please, for the sake of rationality, stop believing ANYTHING this administration says. Bottom line: They don’t tell the truth. Everything they say is spun and geared toward nation-building in the oil regions.
PNAC is the playbook and they’ve followed every single step.

Thanks Dirty Dennis. Heres some facts Iran kept 54 Americans hostage 14 months they were tormented and subjected to torture mental and physical. Iran has funded, trained and armed terrorists, they oppress any opposision. It would be gullable and dangerous if they get nukes.

Ray,

Truth is an important matter if you want to be taken credibly. I know of no hostages that died in Iran. If you do, please cite their names. As for your claim that Iran is somehow responsible for deaths all over the world, what is your source of that information. The media? And where might THEY get the information? From the same people who told you Iraq was involved in 9/11 and had WMD. I think you should follow the old adage and believe only half of what you see. I think you know the rest.

Sixinonehand, Iran sized the American embasy and kept hostages 14 months some were killed, all were tormented, their weapons and funding have been used to kill us millitary personal,and civillians all over the world those arent. They should not have nukse.

Ray, it sounds like you’ll use every excuse available for the U.S. to bomb Iran pre-emptively. Even if it’s unwarranted, your concerns about them being ‘trustworthy’ is enough to bomb a country? Do you think people trust us?
Think again

Word, the delicate situation dictates that an allied air strike would be better than an Israeli only strike.

Hey Ray,

If Israel is at greatest risk of being attacked by an Iranian-made nuke, then why doesn’t Israel attack Iran instead of us?

Sixer,

What this has to do with us is that there’s virulent strain of ‘guilty conscience’ running around. Only the most ignorant, and by extension, most happy, fail to understand how this country has exploited and oppressed most of the rest of the world, certainly smaller countries with dusky citizenry.

If you’d been smacking young Ali around for the past ten years and then heard he’d been asking around for an Uzi, wouldn’t you get a little nervous?

Ray: WHAT’S IT GOT TO DO WITH US? Do you think we’re the moral majority AND the global police? Does everything on this planet revolve around ‘american interests’? What about Iranian interests? We’re obviously not the global police, as evidenced by the new bin laden video. The world’s most wanted man is making videos. Good job Bush.
Ray, Iran has been blown up into an enemy by this lying administration. Do you realize that they helped us in Afghanistan?
If you’re interested in threats to the U.S., then you need look no further than China. Iran is not a threat to the U.S. However, if we sanction Iran’s oil, that has an effect on China’s growth. Do we really need China mad at us?
All I’m asking is to take a swim in the deep end for a minute. Quit swimming in the shallow end, which is where this administration does the most exploitation.

Sixinonehand.,They dont have tolaunch they can make a smart bomb. Isreal would be at greatest risk Iran could give Hezzbalah a nuclear missile. We should stop them before they are able to use or give nukes to terrorists.

Well, Ray, I must inform you that you’re gambling on something that’s never happened. No country, i repeat, no country has ever lived up to the nuclear ‘hype’ except us. If you’re willing to bet that Iran doesn’t care if it gets completely wiped off the map, then good luck. Even if Iran DOES launch their single weapon, that’s it. They’re done. So, why don’t let this little boy cry wolf?? There’s no way in hell they’ll have launch capability to get it here. So, again, Ray. What’s it got to do with us?

sixinonehand, i havent agreed with Bush much at all i didnt agree with the Iraq war, since it went bad most people dont want to expand the war, i am not suprised by the willingness to let Iran have nukes and give em first strike. well see whos right.

Ray:
How do you ‘know’ they ‘can’t be trusted’?????
Let me go out on a limb here. You’re one who was raised ‘not to question the authority of the commander in chief’ right? But, I bet you’re the same person who villified President Clinton.
Just remember this Ray. President Bush is a pathalogical liar. Your theory on Iran comes from information fed to you by pathalogical liars. Personally, I tend to believe the people who are defending their nations. Not nation building. But that’s just me.
Oh yeah, and don’t bring up Clinton’s ‘lie’. It will open up a list of Bush lies that will probably make you stop reading this column………

seems to me you are describing the actions of the american government and probably most governments on earth. Your gonna have to do better than that.

The italians will tell you about how americans have been kidnapping people, so will the germans and canadians.
Arming terrorists? you mean like the unitas rebels, the nicaraguan contras, the taliban during russian occupation?
Oppression oposition? like calling those with the ability to think straight unpatriotic? calling a decorated war hero a coward?

You’re right, they are irrational and can’t be trusted.
IMPEACH NOW!!!!
now, before they can drag this country further into the abyss and before they institute their profit bearing WWIII.

My believef, that action against Iran would be justified is based on what theyve done taking hostages, arming terrorists and opressing opposision. i dont think their leaders are rational and know they cant be trusted.

Ray:
Put down the Bush-flavored Kool-Aid.
Imagine, if you will, somebody taking our country over. Whether you think it can happen or not is not the issue. The issue is how you would feel.
It’s easy if you try……

Jesus Ray,

Stalin threatened us, Khrushchev threatened us, Brezhnev threatened us, Mao threatened us. If we were to attack everyone who thumbed their nose at us, there wouldn’t be any ‘us’ left. Maybe we should look at just WHY they’re ‘threatening’ us. On another thread, ‘Enemy’ addresses that subject fine. Check it out.

While we’re on the subject, why is it okay for Pakistan, India, Israel and France to have ‘the bomb,’ but NOT Iran? Does one more bomb make a difference? We’ve got too many already. And the only one’s flying around with them are Russia and us. If we can’t keep track of almost 200K small arms, why are you so confident we can account for every ‘bomb?’ Do you trust Russia, China, England and France to keep track of every single ‘bomb?’

Finally, if any detonation occurs, the likely of it being state-sponsored is slim and none. Certainly no one would deliver it via missile because it could be tracked. And if we’d spent 1/10th of the trillions we’re spending in Iraq in securing our borders, then the chance of some ‘terrorist’ walking in with a ‘bomb’ would be appreciably diminished.

Like Jed said elsewhere, this is NOT a war on ‘terror.’ It’s a quasi-ideological, quasi-religious and quasi-economic war. If the Idiots In Charge REALLY wanted to protect the citizens of this country, do you honestly believe bombing Islam is the answer? And please, no ‘taking the war to the enemy,’ please. First, Iraq and Iran were, notice ‘were,’ NOT the enemy. But we’ve sure made them that. Secondly, the ‘taking the war’ philosophy was fine in the days of sailing ships, but not in the 21st Century.

Ray,

If there was/is any parallel between Chamberlain ‘appeasing’ Hitler and the ‘Iran situation,’ it would have to be someone appeasing US.

Sixinonehand, Hitler only had those things because of the failure to enforce the treaty of Versais.

exactly, they are criminals. You do not bring the country into a war footing, dilute constitutional liberties, turn your back on hundreds of years of precedent, invade nations on the acts of a few criminals. This war is about as real as the war on drugs, the war on poverty or the war on literacy. They are merely slogans to describe a debacle which has been turned into a boondogle by those politicians who can place themselves and their friends in position from which to profit in these so called ‘wars’.

Ray:
Hitler had an army with uniforms and everything. Bunkers, command centers.
What do the terrorists have? Civilian clothing and american-bought weaponry, hiding behind some other civilian.
Good luck comparing terrorists to a military unit.

Hypothetical, i see your paralels, youre right sometimes the millitary were bullies the Indian wars, the North in the Civil war. To me appeasing Iran and the terrorists is the same as Chamberlin apppeasing Hitler.

Ray:
You say that to appease terrorists and Iran is dangerous and foolish seems to beg the question. Suppose you see a boy, who every day steals lunch money from another boy. One day that boy fights back. Both get bloodied but eventually the bully gets the money again. This goes on but each day, the bully has to work harder and harder to steal the money. Would you say that it is appeasement if the bully finally decided to leave the other kid be?

History shows that in many ways, we(the us) are that bully.

This is rather interesting. You define it as the ‘muslim problem’ in europe, and then give the ‘true problem’ unwittingly in your description.
Why, if the turks where brought in to help rebuild germany, do they live in slums? could it be that their labor was abused rather than used? Why have they been allowed to turn into a burden on society rather than a contributing member, with a decent job and education opportunities that would allow them prosperity? Could it be they were not assimilated as equals but rather isolated as you would a slave or servant?
As you yourself point out, slums are breeding grounds for radicalism, whether that be in europe, asia, arabia, persia or the america’s yet it seems that slums are what is more easily produced.
Poverty IS THE problem, an artificial problem caused by the greedy who suck value out of the economy and replace it with cost. Since they are poor to begin with, they can be payed measly wages because in desperation they will take whatever they can get. Thus, the wealthy have sucked out the value out of their labor and replaced it with a monetary worth. Even though these workers make the product and the business would not survive without them, the employer has reduced their value and made them almost worthless and expendable as well as replaceable.

when you keep calling it the ‘islamic problem’ you try to include all of islam in your evaluation. As I explained to you earlier, this is a fallacy that must be stopped ASAP. Would you be OK with being lumped into the necon lable merely because you were born in the US? We must kill all those warmongering neocons!!! hmm, perhaps our enemies are being manipulated by their media as well.

Sixer,

It sounds EXACTLY like Nazi Germany.

Merk. It seems you’re always defending the ‘war on terror’ in some way, shape or form. Granted, defending your own nation against terror is a noble thing. But, that’s not what this administration is doing. You know it, I know it, and the doorknob knows it. Who gives a flying f–k what kind of ‘isms’ are around. None of them will infiltrate our society as long as we have law enforcement. As long as our cops don’t get corrupt politically, we’ll never have the problems that these other countries are facing. Communism never came over here. Fascism (until McCarthy, and now) never made it over here. Civil unrest and genocide never made it here. And, terrorism will never make an impact here. I’m so sick and tired of hearing people try to define terrorism, for their own political good.
People, it’s time to realize that Iraq didn’t do anything to us. And, now we’re about to (or already have) invade another country that hasn’t done anything to us. Doesn’t that sound a little like Nazi Germany?
It’s time to learn from history. Not spin history.

Connie,

God HAS blessed America. Already. And I doubt it was His intention, in so doing, that we foresake all others.

jed, europe has had a muslim problem for a long time…for years, the poorest part of West Berlin was the Turkish-immigrant slums along the Berlin Wall, and they were, and presumably still are, breeding grounds for radicalism

Germany began importing muslim workers, specifically Turks, to help fill positions that had been lost when their country was cleaved in half and East Germans were no longer in the workforce

along with slow transformation of WESTERN Europe into “eurabia” the new influx of East Germans into the German economy has caused stress among the islamic population…you dont need foreign workers when you have people already in country who will work for the same wages or less

the point is, the islamic problem has been there for a long time, due to western european economic structure, so to say that these people converted because of the iraq war alone is ridiculous…radical islam has attracted followers the same way communism did a century ago–it promises to do away with the present system for something better…now whether one agrees is another story

the lesson that should be learned is that these are converts to islam, not arabs, not persians or pakistanis, germans. Germans who became islamists because of what is happening in Iraq. Seems like even more evidence that the Iraq fiasco, rather than making anyone safer, particularly not the Iraqi people, is actually churning out more terrorists, terrorists emboldened by our mishandling of it I might add.
No one is saying ‘terrorists’ should be appeased or ignored. What has to be done is to understand your enemy well rather than jump to comclusions fed at you by people with an agenda. The enemy has to be plainly and clearly differentiated from the population with which it hopes to mix in with and bring into the melee. The enemy should be attacked at it’s source, Invading iraq was a foolish endeavor at best, it should not be compounded by making a greater mistake. Are you willing to be forced into the military? A draft would be required to even think of attacking the iranians, the pakistanis or probably even the cubans, considering the shape our military has been brouoght to.
The enemy must be isolated, must be prevented from making any social inroads among the population. Failing to do so will allow them to involve all muslim people into the mix, with the added benefit to them that it makes the world realize that we are willing to attack anyone without clear knowledge or provocation.

Todays terror bust is the kind of effort it takes to make a difference. These terrorists hated the American people, to apease terrorists and Iran is dangerous and foolish.

Rather than learn a single lesson by the debacle that has been this country’s approach to the rest of the world in the past six years, Constable On Patrol Bushney seems mindlessly, robotically to pursue some indefinable goal that if they know what it is, they’ve been singularly lacking in their ability to articulate it.

Is there ANY kind of logic to this administrations ‘approach’ to foreign relations? While this country is saber rattling with Iran, it’s neighbor, Pakistan, one of the countries, non-democratic, by the way, the U.S. is ‘okay’ with having a Nuke, is quietly slipping into chaos. And what are we doing about it?

If you step back a little and observe, their behavior has a manic like quality to it. It wouldn’t be hard to conclude that their goal is to turn the entire Middle East into a war zone, with Israel holding the Southern Front. And aside from that country, who can we call on as our allies. England? Australia? Stay tuned for ‘changes’ there.

Bushney has single-handedly undone ALL the good that was built up this country and its leaders from the end of WWII up until he took office. That’s a LOT of undoing. And for what? Oil? Ideology? To fight terrorism?

Bushney isn’t content with being the worst Prez ever. He’s working on his legacy now, adding “dumbest” and “least likely to succeed.” You know, I’ve been against impeachment because there was so little time left and to do so could even turn some ‘sentimental’ votes to the Right. But now I think there’s good reason just to ensure that the stupid SOB doesn’t plunge this country into what could easily become WWIII.

Hallzee:
Do you honestly, in any fantasy world, think you’re going to eliminate terror plots by bombing Iraq and then Iran?
You push this war on terror as if it’s the only solution to a problem that has been around since the beginning of time.
You act as though the libs/dems are refuting terrorism even exists.
Come up with a better argument for continuing this stupid escapade to pillage all of the middle east’s resources than some ‘alleged’ terror plot on SOMEBODY ELSE’S SOIL.
But, you WERE right about one thing. Bush’s policies ARE BAD.
If you honestly believe Bush/Cheney are trying to get rid of terrorism, think again. How do you think the both of them have made their money?? Chaos in the oil industry.

Merkwurdigliebe:

The idea of capitalism and other western values has already reached Irans citizens through its earlier leader.(the cities and people have many elements of a western civilization) However, it was by forceful intervention by the CIA that this came about, not by peacefully setting an example that would later convince them to follow suit.

Yeah…Americas want to whine when the gas prices go up…and other countries want American to stand up only when its best for them…where would the world be without America..There is a reason American is the most powerful country in the world….It was a promise from God…Some people in the ME want to bite the hand that feeds them…its our money that they live off on in oil revenues…and now they want to use it against us…Iran wants to sell in EUro’s so…what do you would happen to the American dollar…Where would the world be if we had stayed out of Hitlers holocaust? And other evils? Havent you ever read the Bible…if you had you would understand this is they way it is and, whats going to happen is in Gods hands..always has been. If we stayed out of this than you might just have to either believe in their Islam ways or they will kill you. Even God himself lets us choose what to believe. American is Good not perfect but, GOOD! I am thankful for a President that has the will to stand up against Evil. God Bless America!

Did anyone know that the Germans foiled a massive terror plot today?

And I thought these terror threats were simply Fear Tactic Lies by the Bush Administration.

But you won’t hear about these terrorist threats on this site. Only Bush is Bad. Terrorist Good!

is this a surprise to anyone? Isn’t this part of his stated aims in that fateful ‘axis of evil’ speech?

Someone on an earlier post asks for help, her husband is at war, sent there by people who care nothing about him or us, all they care about is profits… therefore we must listen to our ancestors… “…That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
We can not wait on the democrats to outgrow their fear, we cannot wait on Jesus to be reborn and save us, we cannot wait on some magical being to make the moves to rescue us. Only we can rescue us from ourselves. Impeachment must start from the people, flood your congressmembers email box with reasons to impeach and your support for it. Let them know, no one will be reelected that does not support the impeachment process. We have been constantly deceived by this administration, they have belittled their opponents even though they were decorated servicemen to their deferred coward status. They have constantly deceived the nation as to the true status and consequences of our endeavour in Iraq. They constantly lie to us as to the reasons they enact legislation they sign into law. They help the rich while pissing on the rest of us. They usurp our civil rights while telling us they support our constitutional documents. They politicise our most necesary institutions to the point of innefectiveness. They write policy to help their rich friends become richer while they destroy the environment and our relations abroad. HOW MUCH MORE WILL YOU TAKE? HOW MUCH MORE CAN YOU SIMPLY GIVE AWAY BEFORE YOU SAY ENOUGH!!! MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD. START A RIPPLE, DROWN THEM WITH THE RESULTANT WAVE OF INDIGNATION. TAKE YOUR NATION BACK AND RESTORE HER TO HER FORMER GLORY AND RESPECT IN THE WORLD ARENA.

Whenever I see, I get a clear picture of someone who’s bent to destroy this planet! Leave the muslim alone and they will leave you alone..what the hell is americans doing the ME.

usa goverment is sick in the head. nothing but bloody warmongers.usa loves war and so it will always try to start one.
it is the usa who is the biggest state of terror not anybody else.
bush is the most hated man in the world, so dosnt that mean anything?
it is over for the usa imperialism and strangle hold over the world.

JASON
HOW CAN ATTACKING THE LEADERSHIP OF IRAN BE EVIL??
TELL YOU WHAT,, WHY DON’T YOU ASK ALL THOSE YOUNG GIRLS WHO HAVE BEEN CIRCUMSIZED, HOW EVIL THINGS CAN GET??
HOW ABOUT ASKING ALL THOSE IRANIAN TROOPS THAT ARE KILLING AMERICAN SOLDERS HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT EVIL??
AND WHILE YOUR AT IT,, ASK allah WHY HE GAVE ARAFAT AIDS??

Bush adminstration will attack Iran before he leave office is an evil action.
US attacking Iran civilian nuke facilities it’s means World War 3 or Global Nuclear War cause Iran already developed nuke weapons and bought many in black market.

Want to stop this insanity bring back the draft! When all of America’s children have to die this BS will stop.

Go to DC on 9/15, call your Rep. and encourage impeachment. Call Pelosi, Conyers, and Leahy.

And if you can, send a “moral” Republican to Iraq today!

sixinonehand,it is because we are the only country to use nukes that makes it oue job to try and stop rouge, ignorant and opressive countries, cults and terrorists from getting or using them.

Dallas: “You’re either with us or against us.”, and Ray: “an airstrike may be nessicary to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons, they shouldnt be allowed to have them.”
First Dallas. Who died and made us god? So, in your mind, we should be able to do whatever we want? Isn’t that what the ‘extremists’ are doing?
Now, Ray. Ray, did you know we are the only country to ever USE a nuclear weapon. We’ve done it twice. And we’re worried about Iran getting ONE SINGLE BOMB? As long as they can’t launch it overseas, how does it affect us? Plus, if they use it, doesn’t that give us the excuse to go in?
Back to Bush’s points on past wars: The ‘isms’ that he’s talking about never make their way over here. They never will. The closest we’ve come to being invaded by fascism is during this adminstration. For the love of God people, stop listening to, let alone believing, anything Cheney’s puppet says. It’s all a bold-face lie. Period.
Go ahead, bomb Iran and see how happy China and Russia are about it. Iraq was a loner. Nobody really, really cared in the whole scheme of things. That’s what allows it to go on. But, if we take China’s oil supply away from them by bombing Iran, we ARE looking at world war III. And, we have nobody to thank but ourselves.

You’re either with us or against us. Dallas, Please! We have targets already picked out for every country on this planet.

And DD, I thought congress was going to impeach Bush for the Iraq War? What makes you think they have the balls to impeach for any attack on Iran. Especially since the majority of Dems have always said that Iran is the real threat, not Iraq. The Dems are more worried about political power than threats to this country’s security.

Theres no doubt Iran is doing the things Bush accused them of, an airstrike may be nessicary to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons, they shouldnt be allowed to have them.

They way that I read the speech from the White House home page is that he’s already authorized the use of military force (namely, a bombing campaign). So, there’s a good chance that they’re already bombing targets while the American people are just catching on.

This is the same guy who said Iraq aided the 9/11 attack and had WMD. Bush opens his mouth and out comes the words Cheney puts in.

I think the heads of Congress should say that IF he does what he’s threatening, they’ll initiate impeachment proceedings. Simple enough. Go ahead on, Georgie.

zeitgeist is a lame-ass pseudodocumentary. Watch Power of Nightmares.

All of you regulars should watch the video that Jed posted a few threads back. It’ll help to put some things into perspective. (Zietgiest or something)