I forgot what my question was.

This issue, as most of you may have noticed, is very dear and important to me.
Being an electronics engineer, I’ve always wondered why generating electricity is so damaging to the environment in almost every single case.

Nikola Tesla and his discoveries have always impressed me. he was able to use a relatively small amount of electricity to create leverage (like a fulcrum) with which to coax millions of volts directly from the earth(the guy was doing wireless b4 1900). Definately worth looking into, particularly since he used the portions of James Maxwell’s formulas that modern ingineering has simply overlooked and summarily discounted simply because they could not decifer his advanced math.
Recently I’ve been reading Viktor Schauberger, not an engineer or scientist, just a very observant forester with an unparalleled connection to nature. This connection allowed him to learn how nature creates energy through cold fusion, truly cold, dark fusion, the joining of elements to create a new element thereby creating energy by formative processes rather than the destructive processes we have been subjected to. Really good reading if you can get your head about it.
Long story short, he provided the cause of global warming… the destruction of the forests, and ways to reverse it.

Seems to me our scientists and politicians need to suspend disbelief for a bit and spend just a bit of money to truly investigate and implement his ideas and start reversing the process.
Unless the total destruction of the planet due to greed is their true aim.

Jed,

The truth is that while this may be one of THE most important issues facing man, it’s not a big issue facing this country. It’s one of those ‘for the good of mankind’ issues that’s a little too ephemeral to take seriously. I have maybe ten years left so I can’t personally care. I think you know where my heart lies and that I’d vote for any candidate who stood up for common sense and the sanctity/sacredness of the blue marble, but the issue doesn’t stir my blood.

I truly believe that ‘mankind’ will survive, come what may. If the mierda hits the oscillating device, energy speaking, a solution will be found. We may lose half the population of the earth, but hey, it’s a bump in the road.

Seriously, no one is going to win or lose an election based on this issue, but I’m thankful there are those like you pushing the envelope.

I really don’t think it’s an energy issue at all, it’s about survival of the planet and ALL it’s life force.
While I hope Big Momma will awaken and bring on the ice age, I’m fearing that the damage to the soil, water and wildlife in general may already be too much to repair- as long as humans remain in the picture.
I tend to think like the ancients and believe in reincarnation… the epitomy of conservatism if you will. So with that in mind, I’d be remiss not to make it an extremely important issue, since I’d prefer it was better rather than worse the next time around. I wish that hadn’t been one of the things forgotten by modern religions, they seem to think that they have an open ticket to some other wonderful place where all you have to do is ask for forgiveness to be given entry, so caring for this place isn’t really a priority for them. I know if I was being asked to forgive them, I would send them back and prove it was true. 9 times enough? :/

Jed,

But this thread WAS/IS about energy. I believe. Beyond that, I agree with you 100%. Except in MY reincarnation, I get to choose ‘when/where’ I go. Who knows, I may just opt for 18th Century New England. What? No flush toilets?

everything is energy, including ourselves, whom happen to be energy compacted into a particular configuration.

What good would the ‘usable energy’ we think we require be if we don’t have a world in which to use it?

if you have time, reply to my email and I’ll send you some reading material on this guy schauberger. Not very technical and easy to understand… implementing his theories may help you regain health and vitality.

I’ve replied. A couple of times. From different emails. They’re not getting through.

Two houses: House #1, A 20 room mansion ( not including 8 bathrooms ) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool ( and a pool house) and a separate guest house, all
heated by gas. In one month this residence consumes more energy than the average
American household does in a year. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2400 /month. In natural gas alone, this property consumes more than 20 times the
national average for an American home. This house is not situated in a Northern or Midwestern “snow belt” area. It’s in the South.

House #2 Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university. This house incorporates every “green” feature current home construction can provide. The house is 4,000 square feet ( 4 bedrooms ) and is nestled on an arid, high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat-pumps drawing
ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground. The water (usually 67 degrees F. ) heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas and it consumes one-quarter electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Surrounding flowers and shrubs native to the area enable the property to blen! d into the surrounding rural landscape.

HOUSE #1 is outside of Nashville , Tennessee ; it is the abode of the “environmentalist” Al Gore.

HOUSE #2 is on a ranch near Crawford , Texas ; it is the residence the of
the President of the United States , George W. Bush.

Tim, why am I not suprised that you dislike any solution other taxes? That is what this is all about from the word go. The left really thinks they can attack the energy companies in the same way they attacked the tobacco companies. The lawsuits against the tobacco companies were brought in public interest and to protect the public. What the public interest actually meant was a bunch of politically well connected liberal trail lawyers got filthy rich, $11 Billion in legal fees to be exact (funny how a bunch of liberal lawyers making billions is not greedy, but a company, employing thousands, making billions for it’s shareholders is to the left).

But there is one big difference between tobacco companies and energy companies, and this will be the real undoing for the global warming mongers. Only about 21% of Americans smoke, and most non-smokers hate smoking with a passion. It was easy to pull off the lawsuits when it only affected 21% the population, and the other 79% were glad to go along with it, being too blind to see that their habit might come under attack next. Non smokers did not care if the price of smokes went sky high, if fact most were happy to see it happen.

That brings us to the energy companies. Everyone uses energy. There may be a handful of people out there who do not have electricity, or own car. In fact I would be willing to bet that statistically 100% of homes in this country are considered electrified. And Americas love affair with the car is well documented, and that love affair cuts across all barriers, men, women, black, white, conservative or liberal, we love our cars. So when liberal trial lawyers like Edwards start suing energy companies and driving up the cost of energy it will effect 100% of the population, not 21%. When it starts hitting the people in the wallet, we’ll see how much the people really care about global warming. I can assure you it won’t be much.

But thanks for pointing out that Edwards is right up there with Chicken Little (al gore) on gw, just one more reason not to vote for him. The other reasons being: he’s a bloodsucking leach (trial lawyer), a liberal, and a dumbacrat.

Pig,

There you go again. You live in a parallel universe.

Let me spell it out for you. Oxymoron: Conjoining, contradictory terms. Like in ‘liberal lawyers.’ In your convoluted world, anyone left of you is a Liberal. According to Hitler, everyone in America was a Liberal. (And yes, Edwards IS a Liberal, but he’s the exception that proves the rule.)

Taxes? What taxes? Do you mean the revenue generating plan Edwards suggests for POLLUTERS who don’t clean up their act? Oh, the poor, poor companies. They’ve had almost 50 years to ‘clean up’ their act and they still have not. Through the boom periods they pocketed all their profits and in the lean years they cried for subsides. (Paid, incidentally, by taxes.) Hell, the money they spent lobbying to prevent clean air legislation would have cleaned up ALL their pollution plants by now.

SHAREHOLDERS? SHAREHOLDERS? Just WHO are the shareholders for these big companies. Why don’t you trot out some statistics on THAT subject, Piggy?

But here’s a shocker, Piggy, I agree with you. Everyone DOES use energy and, sadly, there are too many ‘Americans’ like you who are so selfish, small-minded and petty that they would make no sacrifice for their children and this rock we call home. I’ll make that sacrifice, as long as I believe the companies who COULD have eliminated the problem, but CHOSE not to, are making a sacrifice equal to mine. If my energy costs go up by 10%, I expect their profits to go down by the same.

By the by, your characterization of Edwards as a leach is somewhat disingenuous. If trial lawyers making money suing companies was SO bad, tell me why, with a GOP controlled White House and Congress for what, six years, there’s been no legislation to curb the practice? Why is that do you think? Oxy-less moron!!

wow, is this the same guy that a few posts back was exolting his own ability to be a moderate and not attack people with insults and half truths? what else could we possibly expect from a hog that has made himself obese on profits from the oil world and taking advantage of his fellow humans?

His response does however hold some of the tactics used by the enemies of our planet to justify their case against efficiency, conservation, renewable fuels, environmental protection or anything else that would make sense in the endeavour of leaving a better place for our progeny.

First, they come at the messenger with insults and derogatory statements aimed at the speaker. ie. “show your ignorance”, “liberal whining point.”, “Are you that dense?”. Rather than actually making a real point or positing a logical debate, he realizes he hasn’t a leg to stand on, so quickly he mounts an attack on the person themselves. Hoping to confuse the reader he agrandizes himself while at the same time attempting to discredit his opponent. He picks up little key words and recognizing their importance rather than their meaning in the way it was written, uses them to again, try and discredit the writer. Drawing on his limited and poorly researched or mis-understood ‘knowledge’ he attempts to make a haphazzard objection to some innane and unrelated topic to try and steer the conversation away from the real issue. I believe Bush called it ‘dissasembling’ but it is actually ‘dissembling’ although they are very similar and probably interchangable.

I always find it amusing to see him clutch at straws as if they were lifesaving logs in a flood. I don’t quite understand how trial law relates to oil/coal industry, yet he interjects it to try to make the point that liberals are bad because they hurt the poor little tobbacco industry who’s only desire was to bring the public a loving product that brought pleasure and well being to the public. These liberal lawyers must have some amazing psychic powers because in his mind they are capable of fooling jurys into convicting those poor companies for things they should not be held liable for. To make himself more justified in vilifying the attorneys, he makes them contributors to democratic campaigns… my how repugnant!!

Then he tries to bring in mutual funds, funds in which most people have no control over other than the knowledge that this is where their company keeps their retirement money. Money that should be in a safe, secure, interest earning savings instrument that will be there when he retires, yet was moved there by government decree a few years ago and is the equivalent of playing the rulette without being able to see the spinner or the ball or the numbers. He says the shareholders control the company and can hold the company accountable, however, he refuses to accept that the executive boards own a large majority of shares which they can vote individually, greatly overwhelming any voice the other regular shareholders may vote. In fact, it is THIS system that prevails in american politics, not the ‘democratic’ system we are led to believe we are ruled by.
He then makes another personal attack on the writer and his perceived political/philosophical leanings, calling him a slave and leecher, while conveniently ignoring those very traits within himself and the corporations he hopes to defend. You see, those that self loath will project their failings onto others and insult them by using those. This is the rule in self loathers, they will ascribe to you their own shortcomings and attack you visciously, as they would themselves if their tiny brain would allow them the appropiate perpective. Ultimately, these kind of beings will destroy themselves, their neighbors, their entire planet without thinking about it twice, because they are influenced by that very thing they say they hate. Having very little ability to see beyond their own pathetic little existance and 2 foot periphery, they fail to recognize when their deeds and action are being controlled by that force that even the ancient religions understood and the modern ones have failed so miserably to explain in a form that leads to action which will counter it and defeat it. Greed and themselves are everythign to these creatures, a common good is only good if they themselves win, even if that victory leads to destruction of the whole.

I believe it was Carl Segan (some liberal, progressive idiot that actually used his brain for something other than worshiping the GOP ) that said ‘no organism can survive when it is at war with itself’ unfortunately he was quite right, the organism he was refering to was the earth. It can also be expanded to mean humanity itself.

Jed,

Nicely done. Are you SURE you’re an engineer and not, say, a philosophy or history professor? No matter. Well put.

I tend to ignore The Pig when he resorts to his usual tactics. Pin him on something and he reverts to character. Like his idol, Hitler, the bigger the lie, the shriller the cry. Hmmm, not bad, did I make that up?

As I said, normally I ignore him but I do appreciate your comments. I forget there may be young, impressionable readers seeing his drivel for the first time and needing to have it placed into context. His other favorite tactic is to “Cut ‘n Run.” I posted a comment about one of his an hour after he and he ‘disappeared’ for a week. Word and Cake also posted comments right after me and Piggy never ‘came back.’ He does that often.

I worked for a couple of corporations, on a mega-corp, and the execs used to go on and on to the employees about the ‘shareholders’ like they were Ma and Pa Kettle. We knew who they were. Bozos. I believe one’s doing time.

DirtyDennis
“I tend to ignore The Pig when he resorts to his usual tactics. Pin him on something and he reverts to character. Like his idol, Hitler, the bigger the lie, the shriller the cry. Hmmm, not bad, did I make that up?”

One more thing for you Dennis. You have not pinned me on anything. You have not stated anything that shoots down my original post. The people will not sit by while their energy prices increase because of taxes and lawsuits. You can call it fines all you want, the fact is the consumer will pay for it in the end.

And a Hitler reference. Wow you are so original. How do you think this stuff up? I don’t guess anyone has bother to tell you, but when you have to resort to the Hitler/Nazi response it means you have no valid argument or points. You have jumped the sharked.

A qutoe from your first response:
“SHAREHOLDERS? SHAREHOLDERS? Just WHO are the shareholders for these big companies. Why don’t you trot out some statistics on THAT subject, Piggy?”

Please tell me Dennis, where in my first post did I mention shareholders? Trying to change the subject there dennis? Talk about no leg to stand on.

Hell while I am on a roll let me add one more for you:

“Top Dallas firm Thompson & Knight started a dedicated climate-change practice June 4 with 26 lawyers. Today, Dallas’ Vinson & Elkins will unveil its 41-lawyer group, headed by a former senior counsel for the World Bank.

The law firms – and a dozen others nationwide – are getting ready for a predicted explosion of climate-related work tied to government regulation, lawsuits against energy companies and new markets that will trade the rights to emit carbon.” Dallas Morning News.

Doofus Pig,

Check YOUR post on THIS thread, 9/2/2007, 4:15 EST. Dimwit.

funny, the hogg is so well informed… he actually thinks all attorneys do is bring suit? He couldn’t possibly get his enormous head around the fact that companies working with alternative power generation may need special attorneys to research past patents, help file new ones; perhaps attorneys to help research local laws to avoid stepping on toes. And yes, since the democrats are about to be in complete control again thanks to greed and depotism exhibited by the republican’t feeding frenzy on the treasury, I imagine there will be all kinds of investigations on war profiteering, uber pollution, etc, etc.
Too bad the oil companies are too powerful to be prosecuted for price fixing, dissembling science, supressing competing technologies, paying off bribes like those by abramof, hell, if you dig deep enough, you’d probably find that oil industry probably pays off the nigerian rebels to make prices go up.

I guess when it comes down to it, what pisses him off is that attorneys enforce the laws by bringing suit on those that ignore regulations and hurt others with their actions. Indirectly, he is saying he hates congress for having passed these laws. Ultimately, he loves this country as long as he can own it and make all the rules, f*ck regulations, they keep him from making even more profits. Personally, I believe he should have been born in Russia to a wealthy family, that way, the odds would be truly stacked in his favor and if he doesn’t like something, he doesn’t have to pay too much to have it changed to favor him again. that way he could have exactly what he wants.

Jed Clampett | 9/5/2007, 9:45 pm EST

funny, the hogg is so well informed… he actually thinks all attorneys do is bring suit? He couldn’t possibly get his enormous head around the fact that companies working with alternative power generation may need special attorneys to research past patents, help file new ones; perhaps attorneys to help research local laws to avoid stepping on toes
———————–

Perhaps if that were the case the lawyers would not have said they were gearing up for litigation against the energy industry. But once again you write a long rambling post that does nothing to dispute my original premise. What is it you like to call that? Oh yea dissembling. You through that word out alot, maybe you so familiar with it because you are a master of the art.

And almost every post you make rants about the evil of greed, but you still cannot say how it is greed, and evil, for a company that employs thousands to make billions in profit, but how it is ok when a law firm, that employs few, makes billions it is ok.

Pig,

When you’re not being vague or disingenuous, you’re a liar and, worse, gutless. We’ve been through all this before. As soon as someone (me, Word or Cake) shines a light into that cesspool that’s your mind, you scurry for cover. This website is littered with instances where you’ve been called on the bilious crap you’ve uttered, only for you to scurry back into your hole, never more to return to that post.

I weary of the beatdown you periodically require, but there may be impressionable young minds seeing your crap for the first time who might, just might, in mistaken innocence, give credence to ANY thing you say. It is, therefore, my civic responsibility to refute, point by tiresome point, your inane rants.

This all began with your STUPID assertion to Tim, “…(funny how a bunch of liberal lawyers making billions is not greedy, but a company, employing thousands, making billions for it’s shareholders is to the left.)” And when I challenged you for some statistics as to just WHO these ‘shareholders’ were, you said, “Do I really have to explain who shareholders are?” and then you just HAD to ask if I’m “that dense.” No, Pig, I’m not, but you are if you expect me to believe, as do you, that a “large percentage” of shares are held by “average working Americans.”

Your answer to my challenge, pinned down I believe you were, was, “Please tell me Dennis, where in my first post did I mention shareholders? Trying to change the subject there dennis?” No Pig, I wasn’t, but you were. So, I told you which post you used that reference and now you’ve disappeared. Again!!

I REALLY feel bad subjecting others reading these threads to have to wade through all this unnecessary BS. Normally you’re a reasonably intelligent poster. Normally. And sometimes you make some fairly salient points. Sometimes. But when you go into your attack mode on the Left, reason, objectivity and truth are all the victims. Rest assured that when you do, I will be there, for you.

PS No where did Jed say or infer that he condoned greed on the Left. He’s been pretty outspoken against greed of any sort. Is that distinction too complicated for you?

Dennis,
Let me see I am gone? My post is right above and below yours but I am gone again. Wow. Observant aren’t we. Yes I made passing reference to the shareholders, but that was not the primary focus of the post. The main point being that this gw crap is nothing more than yet another way to raise taxes, and for trial lawyers to get rich suing corporation. Points neither you nor jed have in any disproven.

Pig,

If it’s not the ‘focus’, why’d you heap on that crap on me? You can dish but can’t take. And you say NOTHING to refute any of my claims. Save that you’re still around. Which is why I said it in the first place.

Jed,

Phew, pretty heady stuff. You’ve done your homework. Like Ray, or another, said, “Why aren’t you running?” Of course, you wouldn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell ‘cause you’re ‘soft on terrorism.’

You no doubt recall my using, “…the universe is unfolding as it should,” line from Desiderata. I believe that. Unfortunately, it’s happening SO slowly that the impact is lost on all but a few. You’ve also heard me quote the saw about not learning the lessons of the past. All apply.

What is TRULY amazing, to me, is that there are so many people so blind/ignorant of reality. Not facts; facts are subjective. Reality: trees produce oxygen. Reality: cut down a tree, cut down the oxygen produced. That, at the simplest, simplest level is what you’re saying.

I wish I could see an answer. Millions and millions of people are NOT going to ‘go green’ overnight. And I don’t ‘blame’ this country any more than another although, we should be the ones who ‘get it.’ There seems to be a ‘black hole’ in most people that devoids (sic) them of common sense.

Of all human events, it would appear the Industrial Revolution is going to be the apex of development. We may think we’ve been going up since then, but in reality, we’ve been going down. Next stop, purgatory.

wow,

for the same reason that the governator can’t run. I’m naturalized, not natural born. talk about a confusing term, huh?

Besides, the limelight merely makes you a target for Bozos like our friend here. Also, herding cats doesn’t seem like a fun hobby to me, much less a career. Finally, it seems that the old adage about ‘power corrupts’ seems to be a rule. I don’t think I would like to become another beholder of the rule.

As to your previous comment about being a teacher of philosophy or history… in a previous life perhaps!!
It would be cool to have the knowledge gathered from all those experiences, no? If we had access to those experiences perhaps people would be more conscious of the damage they inflict on others. Unfortunately, those are stored in the soul and our current brain only believes in the present existence, any past experiences making a showing will be relegated to imagination or hallucination or perhaps dementia… unless you have a really open mind.

Jed,

Forgot about that citizenship thingie. Another archaic ‘tradition.’ 300 years from now, do you think citizenship will be an issue? 1000 years?

The REAL reason you don’t want to be Prez is ’cause no one in their right mind wants that job. I doubt we even realize how debasing the process is but I think we can all see how impotent the position really is.

I have no problem with it. Frankly, I think a natural born citizen would have a greater patriotism than a foreign born… though sometimes I’m proven wrong, but this is usually by those who have traded morality, patriotism, common sense for a few bucks.

Even though I’ve been away from my country of birth for more than 3/4 of my life, I still feel a kinship. Most of the transplants I know are the same way, regardless of how long they have been away. The land has a pull on hte soul that few understand.

Personally, I prefer to think of myself as a citizen of earth. As such, it’s protection and restoration are of great importance and supercedes any loyalty to country, religion, political party or even self, as learning from nature requires selflessness and a reduction of the ego.

Jed,

You just explained why ‘Liberals’ are fanatical patriots. Because we belong to a larger country. Damn, that is SO simple? Why’d it take me 90% of my life to realize it?

Damn!! I’m SUCH a doofus. I hope it’s clear to all I meant to say NOT ‘fanatical patriots.’

that would be why some of us are not fanatical about a religion or political party or government or anything else in excess. We understand we are all family and our family is being assaulted from without, being made to fight each other over petty differences that amount to nothing in order to weaken us and blind us to the true aims of the enemy. The destruction of viable life on earth, the stealing of the life force and waters that keep all life processes on earth going.

Excellent piece by Friedman in the NY Times today that speaks to why Edwards plan won’t work.

Essentially, capping emissions in the US will do little to stem greenhouse emissions elsewhere. It’s going to take much more than a domestic solution. It has to be global. Domestic caps just make it cheaper to produce elsewhere. We definitely need a candidate that will deal with the problem innovatively, but Edwards isn’t the one to do that. Promising tax dollars for research is just a politician’s answer to the problem, meanwhile CO2 concentrations go up while all this wonderful government research is going on. Ideally we need an updated version of Kyoto that calls for reductions from the developing world as well as the developed world – BRIC particularly. We also need a way to enforce this policy. People talk tough, they want to “stick it to the polluters” but that doesn’t really do much to solve the problem of our growing energy dependence in the face of climate change. It’s just a bunch of hot air.