Now what? I bet, within two or three posts here, either Deltawildman, Dr. Ralph, or Halzee, will spout out about how ‘these things happen in war’. Bottom line: AGAIN, THE ADMINISTRATION EXPLOITED A TRAGEDY TO ADVANCE THEIR OWN AGENDA. In order to create more support for their facade of a war against an ‘ism’, they, again, misled the public. Is there ANYTHING that this administration HASN’T misled the public about? Also, if Bush is going to keep insisting he’s the ‘commander in chief’, then ultimately this is his responsibility and he’s libel……..It’s just one more thing he’s going to invoke executive privelege for. He’s going to leave congress no other option than to start an impeachment process, if only to get HIM to testify about SOMETHING, ANYTHING. Oh yeah, just to head off the morons at the pass: Yes, we know Clinton used executive privelege to shelter his family. Again, nobody died from his lies.

Somebody shot three times in the head with an M-16 says nothing because he’s instantly dead. Who wrote that piece of fiction? Who is the trooper stretched out praying? Bring him forward. This is the same fabricated crud the the Republican party has been posting for phony soldiers to justify their criminal invasion of Iraq. Enough.

Tillman would have been a huge problem if had come home and become an anti-war activist.

Also, you forgot to mention the meeting with Noam Chomsky he had planned. For real. Tillman was going to become a political fixture against the Bush regime. This is not, in the least bit, paranoia.

hmm

since the only ones who know the true story are either dead (tillman) or in the shadows (whomever else), the truth will probably never be known

as for clinton fride, yes its true his lies never killed anybody, his inaction in the face of terrorism did

Inaction? Research who it was who actually kept him from killing Bin Laden in the late 90’s. You’ll find a Republican congress all too willing to keep him from doing just that. Inaction. Why is it some people think the only kind of action is cruise missles???

impeach! what does it take?!

Wait, this administration doesn’t care enough to think through a pre-emptive hit on a former-NFL-turned-Ranger. All they’d need to do when Pat got home was to Swift-Boat him.

God, if I was Pat Tillman’s brother, I’d be ready to explode with grief and rage.

One more reason never to join the army…

FRIDE..
YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS DO HAPPEN IN WAR…

Now if people can believe that the government is heartless and evil enough to do this, why is it a story of conspiracy that the SAME government would not be able to blow up the twin towers???? Its PURE EVIL in office since 1913 (Banks took over the government). Its just getting less careful under Bush. Mostly because of the internet.

fride, clinton had multiple opportunities, several times in which the CIA, which acts at the discretion of the president, not congress, could have gotten him, but clinton called it off, hell the sudanese govt handed him to us on a silver platter

this is not to mar clinton’s accomplishments–balancing the budget, intiating welfare reform, presiding over one of the most prosperous times in american history, redifining them meaning of the word “is”, and on top of that scoring a blow job from a fat chick in the oval office

i suspect that because clinton was ever reluctant to mess with the properity of the era, he did not actively pursue bin laden, and unfortunately his cautious response to terrorism will keep at “mixed bag” presidential status, as opposed to the greatness clinton could have achieved…

For Tillman – very sad, as he was obviously one of those swept up in the flag-waving propaganda following 911, as predicted in the “New Pearl Harbor” manifesto. However I doubt there was any top down order or other conspiracy, except that it was a coverup of a tragic accident.

However, some of you folks are misled..”yes its true his lies never killed anybody, his inaction in the face of terrorism did “? Merkwurdigliebe, you seem to conveniently have forgotten on whose watch this occured. I suggest you educate yourself a little on exactly what happened, to answer the questioni of whether Bush & co were simply incompetent – or not – and who ordered the NORAD stand down. This trajedy rests on them entirely, and it now seems a Reichstag fire event.

Bush has the same track record with bin Laden Clinton does because he went into Iraq instead of going after bin Laden. Kettle? Pot is on the phone, he wants to call you something.

*Corporal* Tillman wouldn’t be “fragged.” It would be straightforward murder.

*Corporal* Tillman wouldn’t be “fragged.” It would be straightforward murder.

sully– 9-11 didnt just happent in a vacuum, it was merely the next in a long line of attacks against the us, starting with the bombings in Beirut in 1983

the arab world has been in near constant turmoil since the collapse of Nasser’s pan-arab nationalism, and US presidential inaction, from carter to clinton and bush II is what added up to 9-11…but if you really want to know what allowed the event to happen, it wasnt bush, it was the incompetence of a slow moving labyrinthine bureaucracy that couldnt overcome its own momentum and sloth to do something about it

further proof that big government never saved anyone’s lives

It really is interesting to compare the article to the posts here…………and, basically everywhere. But, as far as the article: It’s just another example of the current administration’s zest for exploiting tragedy, if not murder. Personally, I’m a firm believer that there was prior knowlede, in the pentagon, of the attack plans of 9/11. But, that’s for another day.
Secondly, as far as the recent post about big government’s “slow moving labyrinthine bureaucracy”, that would be the PERFECT environment for these kinds of conspiracies to be carried out.
And, lastly, these posts have a way of ending up in a war over whether or not Bill Clinton was a better president than Bush. Simply put, it’s a matter of pure numbers. If Bush is the worst, then everybody is better than him. I think it’s official that Bush is the worst president the people have ever had, but he’s the best president that industry has ever had. So, the top 1%, along with racists, hypocrites, and bigots, love him. The rest of us are getting our collective asses filled. All the while, this whole ‘global war on terror’ is one big failure. Let’s see: Since 9/11 we’ve:
1. Put on a good show with weaponry in Afghanistan. Then, we left them.
2. Invaded Iraq, took out Hussein, and hung him. Sectarian violence is worse than ever.
3. Tried to sell the ports to the very people who allegedly stole those planes and flew them into our buildings. All but two of those ‘alleged’ hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Those are the people that own Dubai ports.
And, yet, people would rather sit on their hands than admit the obvious, that this whole whole mess was a deliberate plan concocted for years by a right-wing thinktank. If government is so inept, then doesn’t it make sense that it could become overrun by a criminal regime that hijacked the white house? Look up the background of the Bush White House. It’s an interesting thing to see how many people are ‘oil’ people.

down word, down boy!

c’mon son, degrading to name calling allready? oh right, so typical of a lib, almost as pathetic is the idea that bush is an evil dictator…far from it, incompetent soon to be ex-prez more likely

perhaps i should extrapolate for a mouthbreather such as yourself, lemme spoon feed it to ya, c’mon get cheap with me one time…

1. Nasser is not the cause of anything, his failure to unite the arab world under pan arab nationalism is what partially led to the rise of A, the terrorist state (ala Arafat’s PLO) and B, the the Islamic theocracy (Khomeini’s Iran)…he was merely one of a long line of people trying to modernize/fix underlying problems in the arab world
2. Another reason is US/Soviet cold war interloping–we agitated and and armed all of those yahoo’s in one way or another, simply in accordance with the theory of containment
3. The Dividing up of the middle east into mandates following the Ottoman Empire’s dissolution in 1918, which is what created most of the underlying problems in Iraq

study the history of the region, something no president, boy clinton included, has yet to comprehend

Sidebar: Why is it republicans/conservatives/reli gious freaks/etc., don’t ever debate the racism angle of their party? Liberals are ALWAYS called ’soft’. They could TRY to refute the label, but it’s irrefutable. It’s an opinion. It can’t be backed up by any facts. However, the racism in the conservative party CAN be proven. I guess that’s why the subject always changes, or these republicon posts never defend it. Just an observation.
Also, Merkwurdigliebe, don’t expect any Republican, EVER, to try and understand another country’s problems or their history/culture. Remember, according to the conservative party, you’re either American, Americanized, nationalized, or you’re “one of them”.

Pat Tillman was a true American badass. He was indeed a hero — although not the kind the Republicans want. Tillman was a patriot who not only had the balls to live out his convictions, but also had the audacity to think for himself.

Tillman loved his country, and he understood that Bush was taking it in the wrong direction. He knew his commander-in-chief was a fuckhead, but he chose to serve anyway. I don’t know whether that’s the right decision or not, but personally, I admire the hell out of the guy. His death is truly a tragedy.

While your point is well taken Bender, you’re too limiting. Better to state the Rs are bigoted, although admittedly, it’s not as inflammatory a term as racist. The Rs don’t like other races, that’s true, but they also don’t like other countries, other religions, women, poor people and the great unwashed.

They have unabashedly, until recently, held these opinions ever since the ‘great party’ was stolen from the legacy of Lincoln. I’m sure others can offer more examples of the Rs rampant bigotry, but perhaps it’s better to simply say they ‘like’ white, Christian males.

To be sure they want minority votes and they go to a great deal of effort to court them. And to be sure, they like little boys and girls, kneeling in front of them. But look at the record. The Rs are the party of bigotry, hatred and fear.

Merkwurdigliebe,

“Another reason is US/Soviet cold war interloping–we agitated and and armed all of those yahoo’s in one way or another, simply in accordance with the theory of containment”

Yet the U.S. gov’t just authorized a $20 billion war weapons aid package to the Saudis, and even more to the Israelis. Now we’re “arming those yahoo’s” in accordance with the theory of containing Iran. In case you’re so unread you’re retarded, you understand that the Saudis love arming Sunni extremists affiliated with Al Qaeda in order to keep their kingdom intact. This is a case of the U.S. government literally arming Al Qaeda, and you say “down boy?” What are you some kind of conservative retard? This Republican government is literally arming the enemy and you follow them? Are you a traitor?

“The Dividing up of the middle east into mandates following the Ottoman Empire’s dissolution in 1918, which is what created most of the underlying problems in Iraq”

Excellent reason to partition Iraq along Sunni/Shia lines. Even Bush administration officials are coming around to this position. And to think…I held it more than a year ago! DEEE DE DEEE!

And to think also…conservatives voted for Bush…TWICE. Need I say it? Watch Carlos Mencia.

oh pooh pooh my dear monosyllabic monikered friend

i said nothing in my posts as to whether i support bush, or even if i think he’s going about it the right way–btw the saudi’s arent interested in keeping their kingdom “intact” they’re interested in expanding their hegemony around the gulf…they’re islamic imperialists as one analyst pointed out

your point of the weapons is duly noted…the saudi’s tell us to jump with oil and we say how high…all the more reason to start a “to the moon” style oil project (and hint, the so called “easy” solution, ethanol, aint it…we gotta get off their oil and fast

btw actually read and infer from posts as opposed to doin the brain dead, foaming liberal zombie routine and attacking right away

With a media out to apologize, diffuse Bush administration horrors, we are seeing Crimes being “Swept Under The Rug”…
For Tillman’s family it is a tragedy turned into a Never-Ending Nightmare…
Hard enough to have your Son’s Sacrifice exploited to Sell an immoral “war” but then to find out his death may have been more than “friendly fire” but something more sinister…
Tillman was Fed-up with the Bush Propaganda and the way the “war” was being handled-did he get too vocal and would he have been a celebrity to Contend with when he was starting to go public with his Observations and Experiences in the “Heat of Battle”…(He was a Critic of Bush’s “War” in Iraq while being a Patriot who risked his life to fight the terrorists in Afghanistan…
The trio in charge of our country would do anything to hide the Truth from the American people-the deaths of hundreds of thousands have meant little to them or their Fascist Agenda…
They have bought the media/corporate and are being aided by the military-industrial complex…
We all now live under a Monster Regime-anyone a little worried and tired of living under NeoCon’s Thumb?

Tim Dickinson = irresponsible twit. You’re accusing somebody of murder because maybe Tillman yelled at him. The guy got yelled at, big deal, it’s the Army.

Use some intelligence as tough as it is for you. If you think you’re under fire and you’re in a three man fire-team you have three guns to defend yourself. You aren’t going to kill one of your co-defenders decreasing your perceived chances of survival by 1/3.

Idiot.

Wow,

I’m beginning to see why some people are behind the war. If this guy’s comments are indicative, they’re living in a parallel universe. I sure hope he’s unique. I don’t think I’m reading the same post as TravBaby. I didn’t see anything inferring who actually shot him. Maybe it’s brought up elsewhere, but not herein. Given the grouping of shots, however, one would have to assume the shooter was: a) pretty damned close and b) therefore could see what he was shooting.

Even assuming that it was, as TravBaby thinks, one of those with Tillman (TravBaby seems to have picked the one being yelled at), TravBaby seems to think all GIs are cool, calm and collected under fire. Maybe, I don’t know, I’ve never been there. But the stories I’ve heard seem to indicate otherwise. And when it looked like I was ticketed for Nam, I can tell you that I was pretty nervous about going into combat with the guys I was just trained with.

Personally, I find it hard to believe a fellow mate deliberately shot Tillman. Just as I find it hard to believe Americans (military, mafia, CIA, et al) were behind Kennedy’s assassination. That said, I don’t rule any possibility out. A careful reading of history reveals man’s darker side. Like Remarque wrote, “War is hell.”

We could enter a whole dialog here about what happens in combat situations, but let’s just say that when you take young, immature, testosterone laden males, fill their heads full of notions of the glory of combat and then turn them loose, armed, in an impossibly ridiculous situation, you’d have to be George Bush (or Dick Cheney, or Paul Wolfowitz, or Donald Rumsfeld, or Condolezza Rice) to NOT believe that tragedy awaits.

Given the propensity of those prosecuting this war to deliver information ‘sunny side up,’ one can’t help but wonder what else is yet to surface.

If the Tillmans have to go through this much trouble and misled information to find out about their high profiled son/brother’s death, I can only imagine the amount of propaganda and neglagent information that has been giving to family members and loved ones to cover up other friendly-fire incidents on less profiled soldiers.