Taxes are theft. If the people of New Orleans choose to live below sea level that’s their business. Just don’t steal from me to subsidize their wreckless choices.

Why should all the rest of us pay the bill for people who want to live below sea level in New Orleans? That makes no sense to me. That would be like saying, “You know what, I know this valley is completely infested with deadly snakes, malarial mosquitos, and some strange skin eating fungus, but the taxpayers should pay for me to have a $5 million bio dome in this valley, because I want to live here.”

If you want to live in a city that inevitably gets flooded, go for it. But don’t force me and those like me who disagree with your choice to pay your bills.

I never would have guessed that I would be returning to this site so often. I ought to be awarded a Paul Patrol medal or something.

Mr. Dickinson, I applaud you (again) for keeping the discussion open to further opinions, and for clearly being interested enough to make a third post (in one day).

The question to which we are all dying to hear an answer (and I hope I am not speaking out of turn when I refer to the Patrol as “we”) is: what evidence or sources can you cite that indicate that the failure of FEMA in New Orleans had anything to do with private organizations and individuals?

I could cite the many examples already given (on the popular post) of how these private organizations were on hand WAY before the federally-sponsored FEMA, but I respect your intelligence and I do not want to make a nuisance of myself.

However, given your apparent interest, I would love to hear your response. I promise I won’t argue with it–I’ll simply say “thank you” and go hawkishly scour the rest of the net in search of wrongs to Ron Paul Christ’s name.

(As for me, I believe in people. Ordinary people. I believe that ordinary people help other ordinary people. I believe that charities and philanthropies and churches and people are good, and will do good, and will not let the children starve, or the drowning anguish, or the homeless go naked. I believe this about ordinary, regular Joes who work long hours and drink beer and are worried about their teenage daughters. They do good things. For all of its virtues [and it does have some], the government is no replacement for the goodness of these people.

I’m questioning

OOOO, Censorship for RS..

Can’t let the People have anything but Corporate Propaganda-my subscription will be gone…

The “I Won’t Pay Taxes” conservatives who are full of Me…

No, Tax Cuts are Theft, Ace…

They drain the funding for government programs that are badly needed…

Let’s see how you feel when your neighborhood is hit by a Natural or Terrorist disaster…

Just Lame Republican Rhetoric…

Stop with the Republican Propaganda…

Privatization does not work-people “Are good and will do the work for New Orleans”…Pollyana shit…

Deregulation and Privatization have created huge holes in the economy, have made private concerns wealthy but they have no responsibility to fellow citizens…

New Orleans is still a mess(I have seen it first-hand) and there are not enough funds, help to do effective clean-up or rebuild…

Funding should have been in FEMA and other Government Organizations but, Tax Cuts(Perpetual Boy-GWB-your new hero)has robbed these necessary agencies of their ability to bring aid to cities and states affeced by disaster…

Insurance working for ‘ya, the gas prices, the “fair price” of medicine?

More businesses making money and No One to Account for the profits of Halliburton/Exxon(Maybe you are investers now)and Who Got the 100 billion dollars that was designated for New Orleans…

But like all little good conservatives, make the victims the Culprits-
“Why did they choose to live in New Orleans”?

Here’s One for You…Why did the funding American Tax-Payers paid, never make it to the people who needed it in the Gulf(except for Mississippi White areas), why are so many still homeless, where is the money?

Maybe you and Paul will head on down and do lots of rebuilding and creating jobs in New Orleans…

Why aren’t political editors investigating that?

No Doubt, some of Paul’s Republican Political Pals are enjoying the $$$$$$$$…

So after getting completely “owned” on the original thread you’re going to go in and cherry pick the fish-in-the-barrel posts? Outstanding. Totally original, and not to mention courageous to boot…

*roll eyes*

New Orleans status as being “below sea level” is not the problem. The problem was failed levees. The government did not design, build or maintain them properly and has admitted it. Parts of New Orleans are below sea level but parts that are not below flooded as well.

Robert:

Don’t disparage Mr. Dickinson for picking out a topic for further discussion. The original thread has become rather cluttered. This way, we have the chance to focus our discussion rather than continually repeating the same points (as is now occuring in the first thread). In any case, this is his column – he can do what he wishes.

Mr. Dickinson:

Eric stated his opinion along with his logic. You then state your opinion that Eric’s logic is at odds with your logic yet fail to say what your logic is. You’ll have to do better. Please explain your logic.

My argument is this:

For the government to rebuild New Orleans, they must first seize money from others to do it. On principle, I resent that money is forcibly taken from me for any purpose. I defy anyone to say that money forcibly taken from another is anything other than theft – whether or not it is sanctioned under the name of taxes.

Principle aside, when money is taken rather than earned, there is less incentive to be responsible with it. What’s more, when wads of money are made available without really needing to earn it (and government has wads of money – heck, it prints the stuff), dishonest people are naturally drawn to participate. You can’t tell me that it’s just the wrong people running government. It’s the nature of the game. If we can agree on that, then I think we can get somewhere.

I should clarify my last post. I don’t have any problem with part or all of New Orleans being rebuilt. It should be done with private money though with no promise of a government bail out if another huricane were to destroy it again.

If people have to risk their own capital, they are more likely to avoid the mistakes that caused so much suffering in the first case. Allowing politicians to spend other peoples’ money offers them no incentive to actually solve or avoid problems – only to give the impression of doing something and of course along the way perhaps giving out special favors to their friends.

I think this is what Eric was getting at.

Interesting. I bet the same people that are saying our tax dollars should not be spent in New Orleans are the same fuckers that are okay with that money being spent on fighting ‘terrorism’. Wait, I mean, collecting oil reserves! If somebody tries to justify leaving New Orleans to the maggots, don’t waste your time responding to them. It’s this simple: Government’s job should be to clean up the area and help survivors get by. That doesn’t mean government has to rebuild the area. But, THE PLACE HASN’T EVEN BEEN CLEANED UP YET. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LEAVE IT TO PRIVATE INDUSTRY. We’ve left energy conversion to private industry and look where that’s gotten us. What about health care? What the hell else should be done with our tax dollars? Why is it so bad, to some people, to spend our money in our own borders??????? Conservatives, keep livin the dream you Bush-pushers. Empire. Excuse me: Private Empire. It’s all about strategery.

I too don’t think that the Federal Government should rebuild New Orleans. The State of Louisiana can do whatever they want as far as I am concerned. We have to understand that Ron is a libertarian running for federal office. All these programs that other people love and cherish could be done on a state level and I would like to know why people think the best way to handle everyone’s problems is to filter all the money to one city between Maryland and Virginia and then they act surprised when special interests rule the day. Instead of fighting at 50 or more fronts, they only need to buy off Washington. People need to understand jurisdiction and maybe then they won’t be so scared of Federal Libertarianism. After years of big government fear mongering I understand, but we have respectfully tell these chicken littles that the sky is not falling and that limited federal government does not equate to anarchy. Unfortunately Libertarians have never been good at explaining that.

Fried at the STEAK

Your really off base. We’re trying to get the government to end focus on spending our tax money on a false war. Ron Paul is the only candidate that voted against the war and is the only one still trying to get us out.

Greg, if you notice, I didn’t mention anything about the article. I was responding to all the posts. Believe me, as a non-republican, I think Ron Paul is their best candidate. Until he gets religion, oil, tobacco, pharma, alcohol, and auto money…….

“Deregulation and Privatization have created huge holes in the economy…

New Orleans is still a mess(I have seen it first-hand) and there are not enough funds, help to do effective clean-up or rebuild…

Funding should have been in FEMA and other Government Organizations but, Tax Cuts(Perpetual Boy-GWB-your new hero)has robbed these necessary agencies of their ability to bring aid to cities and states affeced by disaster…”

How is throwing 60 billion dollars at FEMA not enough funding? FEMA turned tons of local support who tried to help away? It’s pretty obvious FEMA didn’t do their job effectively and I don’t think lack of funding is a verifiable excuse.

Here’s a topic for further discussion. These debates began when Mr. Dickinson praised Ron Paul for being anti-war but then criticized him for his domestic policies. This reminds me of an observation that I’ve often heard regarding big government.

Generalizing liberals and conservatives:

Liberals tend to distrust big government in foreign affairs but trust it in domestic affairs.

Conservatives tend toward the opposite side. They cheer on our country’s foreign domination but expect it to stay out of domestic affairs. [I know this is a little too black in white - this is just for discussion purposes.]

If government is corrupt and ineffective in one realm, why do we expect better of it in the other?

Ron Paul sets himself apart by embracing the view that we should distrust big government at every level – both at home and abroad. As Mr. Dickinson said in his original article, Ron Paul’s world view is very consistent in this regard.

A lot of geniuses, most of them below sea-level. Let market forces fix everything and don’t question what our three trillion dollar government does with that money?

The Corps of Engineers builds sub-standard levees to protect a valuable American resource and the American response is to let market forces fix it.

And that irresponsibility is defensible? As my foreign friends say, “Only in America”

America is running toward a Third World future, wrapping itself in goofy ideology, specious reasoning and lazy logic. Not to mention lazy Americans.

Why not instead insist on a government that performs?

Not enough thinking above sea-level.

A lot of geniuses, most of them below sea-level. Let market forces fix everything and don’t question what our three trillion dollar government does with that money?

The Corps of Engineers builds sub-standard levees to protect a valuable American resource and the American response is to let market forces fix it.

And that irresponsibility is defensible? As my foreign friends say, “Only in America”

America is running toward a Third World future, wrapping itself in goofy ideology, specious reasoning and lazy logic. Not to mention lazy Americans.

Why not instead insist on a government that performs?

Not enough thinking above sea-level.

A lot of geniuses, most of them below sea-level. Let market forces fix everything and don’t question what our three trillion dollar government does with that money?

The Corps of Engineers builds sub-standard levees to protect a valuable American resource and the American response is to let market forces fix it.

And that irresponsibility is defensible? As my foreign friends say, “Only in America”

America is running toward a Third World future, wrapping itself in goofy ideology, specious reasoning and lazy logic. Not to mention lazy Americans.

Why not instead insist on a government that performs?

Not enough thinking above sea-level.

A lot of geniuses, most of them below sea-level. Let market forces fix everything and don’t question what our three trillion dollar government does with that money?

The Corps of Engineers builds sub-standard levees to protect a valuable American resource and the American response is to let market forces fix it.

And that irresponsibility is defensible? As my foreign friends say, “Only in America”

America is running toward a Third World future, wrapping itself in goofy ideology, specious reasoning and lazy logic. Not to mention lazy Americans.

Why not instead insist on a government that performs?

Not enough thinking above sea-level.

A lot of geniuses, most of them below sea-level. Let market forces fix everything and don’t question what our three trillion dollar government does with that money?

The Corps of Engineers builds sub-standard levees to protect a valuable American resource and the American response is to let market forces fix it.

And that irresponsibility is defensible? As my foreign friends say, “Only in America”

America is running toward a Third World future, wrapping itself in goofy ideology, specious reasoning and lazy logic. Not to mention lazy Americans.

Why not instead insist on a government that performs?

Not enough thinking above sea-level.

A lot of geniuses, most of them below sea-level. Let market forces fix everything and don’t question what our three trillion dollar government does with that money?

The Corps of Engineers builds sub-standard levees to protect a valuable American resource and the American response is to let market forces fix it.

And that irresponsibility is defensible? As my foreign friends say, “Only in America”

America is running toward a Third World future, wrapping itself in goofy ideology, specious reasoning and lazy logic. Not to mention lazy Americans.

Why not instead insist on a government that performs?

Not enough thinking above sea-level.

A lot of geniuses, most of them below sea-level. Let market forces fix everything and don’t question what our three trillion dollar government does with that money?

The Corps of Engineers builds sub-standard levees to protect a valuable American resource and the American response is to let market forces fix it.

And that irresponsibility is defensible? As my foreign friends say, “Only in America”

America is running toward a Third World future, wrapping itself in goofy ideology, specious reasoning and lazy logic. Not to mention lazy Americans.

Why not instead insist on a government that performs?

Not enough thinking above sea-level.

A lot of geniuses, most of them below sea-level. Let market forces fix everything and don’t question what our three trillion dollar government does with that money?

The Corps of Engineers builds sub-standard levees to protect a valuable American resource and the American response is to let market forces fix it.

And that irresponsibility is defensible? As my foreign friends say, “Only in America”

America is running toward a Third World future, wrapping itself in goofy ideology, specious reasoning and lazy logic. Not to mention lazy Americans.

Why not instead insist on a government that performs?

Not enough thinking above sea-level.

Well, I think we should just secede and talk our oil and port with us, and then we down here in New Orleans and coastal Louisian can take care of ourselves very nicely, thank you.

be careful what you ask for. Ever been to N.O.?

You break it you fix it? Not in Bush world. In Bush world you destroy it, blame the other side and enjoy the support of hundreds of thousands of COMPLETE MORONS who vote Republican.

By the way, why should we help all those New Yorkers who chose to live in terrorism-prone areas, or those Floridians who chose to live in hurricane-prone areas? I didn’t hear any of the cons complaining then…oh wait, most of the poor souls we saw on t.v. in N.O. after Katrina were BLACK. Now it all gets clearer.

And these people have the gall to say they’re Christian? HAH! keep conning yourselves…

You break it you fix it? Not in Bush world. In Bush world you destroy it, blame the victims and enjoy the support of hundreds of thousands of COMPLETE MORONS who vote Republican.

By the way, why should we help all those New Yorkers who chose to live in terrorism-prone areas, or those Floridians who chose to live in hurricane-prone areas? I didn’t hear any of the cons complaining then…oh wait, most of the poor souls we saw on t.v. in N.O. after Katrina were BLACK. Now it all gets clearer.

And these people have the gall to say they’re Christian? HAH! keep conning yourselves…

Let’s talk about facts:

New Orleans was founded in 1716

The levees broke, they were not overtopped as in other storm related incidents, they failed to work. They were built in the 1930’s by the Federal Government who insisted on jurisdiction.

80% of the city was under water for over 14 days, in salt water, not the Mississippi River water. Those levees, built in the 1800’s did not fail. They were built by local government.

The majority of those who lost their lives were not African American. However our city was 70% african american so you would think that the majority population would be the majority of what you would see on camera. More homes were lost in Lakeview than the 9th ward, but it is a middle class neighborhood and most people evacuated when they were told to do so.

An empty flooded house is not nearly as interesting to media or to us as the consumers of our media as seeing people on roofs.

I lost my home and possessions. But I lost my way of life, which was a harder blow than the things. My doctors, cleaners, grocery store, mechanic are all gone.

We don’t want people to feel sorry for us, nor do the majority of us want hand outs, we just want to know our levees are fixed because for my entire life, I was told they would always hold. And they did not. There is a sense of hopelessness as we are screwed over by insurers who insured us for replacement costs and are paying 10 cents on the dollar and tell us too bad, while we try to rebuild our lives. It wasn’t just a levee failure, it is a failure of our country to take care of our own. I encountered many people after Katrina who just said it was not worth rebuilding…..and more people who sent help or came to help. It is the spirit of those who have come down to help that makes me proud to be an American and we are grateful for that. Those who scoff at rebuilding, have never lost it all, tried to work while you rebuild, fight insurance companies for what is rightfully yours to have, fight depression, endure friends suicides and endure comments like these that make us feel less important to this country than we already do. I hope that this does not ever happen again in this country, but if it does, you can count on the people of New Orleans to help, because we DO understand what really happened.

We are part of the United States
We

Well, it seems like Bush, Cheney and their neocon buddies want to privatize everything in sight. They already sent Halliburton to NO, and Blackwater, their private police force, too… Where were the government agencies and the disaster dollars that were supposed to be there to help the people?

What would make New Orleans an exception to the privatization game?
———————— ——
We need a NEW and responsible government!

I love living below sea level… It is the greatest choice I and many others has made. There is nothing more breathtaking when you are walking towards the river from the French Quarter and you see a ship towering over you. God I love New Orleans… It is the greatest place in the world… I will rebuild and rebuild and rebuild until the day I die… Thanks to all the people who shared their negative comments. You made me appreciate New Orleans more than I ever had. To know there are people like you living in other places makes me realize how great the city of New Orleans really is…

Let Them Eat Cake said:

“The federal government should pay for the flood damage because it was their fricken negligence that caused the flooding of the city to begin with.”

Your view is one with which I can sympathize. If we can all agree on one thing, it is this: The Federal government failed the people harmed by Katrina. There is a sort of justice in what you say.

I think though that it’s a mistake to continue to rely upon people in D.C. for your well-being. As I keep saying, government (especially one so far removed from you) only needs to give the appearance of accomplishing its goals. And when it fails, the inevitable response is always more money. How’s that for accountability???

I personally mis-trust government at all levels. I think that groups of people can willingly cooperate for their mutual benefit. When you allow for taxing power of government, I just think that there is too much incentive for people in government to act for their own benefit without consideration for those they are supposedly serving.

Beth/Louie:

Thank you for providing a personal view on the discussion. It’s easy to get lost debating philosophies and to forget that real individuals continue to be affected by the disaster. My heart goes out to you.

Immediately after the disaster, I gave a modest amount of money to a relief effort that I trust. I’m angry that so much more of my money is taken from me in a promise to protect you in the future. I’m angry that more of my money may be taken from me to rebuild you. I’m not angry because I don’t care about you. I’m angry because I don’t believe that the promises will be kept.

WELL, THERE ARE PARTS OF NEW ORLEANS THAT SHOULD BE REBUILT, NO DOUBT,
I CAN’T IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT A FRENCH QUARTERS OR GARDEN DISTRICT.
HOWEVER, IF WE COULD IMAGINE A WORLD WITHOUT THE 9th DISTRICT,, WELL,, I THINK JOHN LENNON SANG ABOUT THAT.
YES!! REBUILD NEW ORLEANS,, MAKE IT BETTER THAN IT WAS BEFORE, EXPAND THE FRENCH QUARTERS, EXPAND THE GARDEN DISTRICT, EXPAND ALL THOSE LITTLE AREAS THAT SO MANY OF US HAVE SO MANY FOND MEMORIES OF.
BUT MAKE SURE YOU LEAVE OUT THE ” BASTARD ELEMENT” YOU KNOW, THAT ELEMENT THAT HAS NO COLOR, HAS NO AGE, BUT ABOVE ALL, THEY HAVE NO REASON TO BE A PART OF ANY SOCIETY, THE FOLKS YOU LOOK AT AND THINK TO YOURSELF,, ” BOY THIS WOULD BE A GREAT TOWN,, IF IT WEREN’T FOR THOSE ( BASTARDS )..
IF YOU CAN DO THAT,, WELL YOU’VE GOT A DISNEY LAND FOR GROWN UPS..

Joe S says:
“Thank you for providing a personal view on the discussion. It’s easy to get lost debating philosophies and to forget that real individuals continue to be affected by the disaster. My heart goes out to you.”
For 2 years I have been fighting people on the internet defending my right to exist as an American. My health has paid the price. The turning point for me (besides the fact that I felt that NOLA would survive this past Mardi Gras because the tourists started to return) was a fellow internet New Orleanian who told me that I had to realize that the people we argue with are looking at this as a political situation or an interesting arguement while we are emotionally invested. WE ARE FIGHTING FOR OUR LIVES! It has made the heartbreak a little easier to bear. The heartbreak is still there because now I know Americans will turn their back on their own citizens. They are patriotic only as long as no personal sacrefice is asked of them. This is what this country has become. The rest of the country doesn’t know or want to know the true struggle of the people of the Gulf South. This is the loss I bear.

I see someone is posting using my name, and it sounds like the work of one word. What’s the matter can’t think for yourself word?

Oh, what intelligent arguments these neocons give. Of course the government has people in it, could you possibly be more daft?

why is it that there are so many innefficiencies in government? The cause is that there is no accountability. A senator steals from his nation at a time of war to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and he gets 2.5 years? he should have been hanged as well as the beneficiaries should have lost their companies to the government and spent several decades in prison themselves.
The reason government is so screwed up is because there is no real accountability and because the meddling by special interests and the private sector to try and convince us it’s inneficient and unnecessary.
Wanna get rid of government, lets start with the FDA, we don’t need them, industry does everything well and they have our interests at heart rather than profits at any costs. Hell, phen phen and vioxx were perfectly good products, they were merely misunderstood by an overzealous FDA.
Next, lets do away with the police, we don’t really need them anyways, hell, they’ve been in a war on drugs for decades and they obviously don’t do very well, when was the last time you heard of a major dismanteling of a trafficking ring here? Compare that with how many times they bust users and low level street dealers. Screw them, we don’t need them, if you have a complaint just call the paid vigilantes and let them take care of it.
Next lets take out regulating entity’s, who the hell needs them? we should let the electric companies charge whatever they want, we need it, they got it, might as well pay whatever they want to charge. We know they won’t overcharge us, will they?
Let’s do away with madicare and meicaid, easiest way to solve the aging problem and the social security problem is to just let those people die, they already had their chance, they didn’t get theirs it’s their own fault, they should have cheated, stole and usurped like many of the wealthy among us had to do.
Excuse me for resorting to it, but is seems sarcasm is the only language you creatures understand.
Such a bunch of morons, first you willingly let business buy out your politicians, allow crooks to use political appointees to mislead your most important institutions and run them into the ground and then use that fact as proof that government does not work as evidenced by what your people did to it… BRILLIANT!!!

I know people in Orleans… they are glad Katrina hit. No more slums, no more homeless, they’re all in Texas! Hell the people with money are rebuilding it better than it was. Let Uncle Sam stay the hell away… we don’t need no projects.

I know people in Orleans… they are glad Katrina hit. No more slums, no more homeless, they’re all in Texas! Hell the people with money are rebuilding it better than it was. Let Uncle Sam stay the hell away… we don’t need no projects.

yea, I know about how they sent all those indigent people here to texas and other states, instead of helping those people get out of the situation, instead of teaking this great opportunity to show that america cares and is willing to help people get back on their feet they turned it into a dumping of souls very similar to what is done to the indigent patients in san fran hospitals. Yea, those people should be proud of themselves, they allowed their government to ‘drain the swamp’ so to speak so that they could rebuild it in the image of Las Vegas. Is that what america has become? No wonder people hate us, they can see we are a bunch of hypocrites and traitors to our own constitution… YOU MUST BE SO PROUD!!!!

The left loves to cry about Bush and Haliburton, but it seems that La. Governor Blanco, a dumbacrat, awarded a no bid contract to James Witt, former director of FEMA under Clinton, to help clean up NO, and now it seems he has been overcharging the state, and falsely billing the state for work never done. How can this be? Not a Clintonista and a dumbacrat.

why not? is he not a human and a wealthy person? why do you think Jesus said it’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it would be for a rich man to enter heaven? The problem is that people like this are not held accountable, so they keep on doing it. who pays? the rest of us through higher taxes.

Dr. Ralph, I live in New Orleans and NO ONE here is happy Katrina hit. No more slums? Are you joking? It’s like a third world country here theses days. No jobs, no money, no food, no healthcare, no housing! And I’m as white as the driven snow AND I have a job and have always supported myself. Why don’t you come down here and let me give you a personal tour of my city?

And just so you know, most people in the 9th ward were homeowners. Not only that, but quite a few of them were white too. Even the 9th ward marching band is mostly made up of white people.A lot of you are just ignorant,prejudiced,racist fools who don’t know what you’re talking about!

And we New Orleanians pay just as many taxes as all the rest of America. Why can our tax dollars go to pay for a “war” most of us can’t even stomach, thrown by a President who wasn’t even legally elected his first run in office, to the tune of $476.8 BILLION, but us asking for a measly $10 Billion dollars is so horribly wrong? By the way, the hurricane isn’t what fucked New Orleans up. It was the faulty levee system that the Army Corps of Engineers built that caused the city to flood.OUR GOVERNMENT has admitted to fault yet refuses to accept responsibility. The Hurricane had come and gone well before the first breach.

And did you ever think to ask why Louisiana is the only state that does not receive revenue from our own offshore oil rigs? We could pay for our recovery ourselves, if the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT didn’t claim every penny from OUR offshore oil for themselves. Why don’t you educate yourselves before you parade your ignorant assumptions to the world. You know what they say about assuming…..