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Climate Crisis: A State of Denial

12/29/06, 11:17 am EST

Who is taking the science of our climate crisis more seriously?

The Bush administration, or China?

“Greenhouse gases released due to human activity are leading to ever more serious problems in terms of climate change.”

–The Chinese Ministry of Science and Technology this week

“We do not know how much effect natural fluctuations in climate may have had on warming. We do not know how much our climate could, or will change in the future. We do not know how fast change will occur, or even how some of our actions could impact it.”


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Comments

Capitalist Pig | 12/30/2006, 12:44 am EST

It should not come as a suprise that China wants to promote the theory of global socialism aka global warming. China is after all a communist country, and I am sure China would love nothing more than to see the global socialist/anti-industrialist succeed in stifling the U.S. Economy. Evironmentalism is the new method used to promote communism/socialism. The left wing Marxist is this country could not accomplish thier goal with red, so now they are using green.
What is scary is the fact that two U.S. senators, Jay Rockefeller(D-WV) and Olympia Snowe(RHINO-MA), have sent a letter to the head of ExxonMobil demanding they stop funding critics of global warming. Funny thing is I did not see any outrage on RS about this attempt to silence the First Ammendment Rights of the GW opponents. Had this been a letter to an environmental organization demanding they stop funding the pro global warming scientist, the left would be having a cow. What is it about open debate the gw kooks are so afraid of? Chicken Little, algore, said the debate is over. Someone should tell chicken little the debate is never over in science.

Alien Billie | 12/30/2006, 4:44 am EST

A fine demonstration of advanced tinfoil-hattery. Truly CP, you are the master!

bi-curious purple | 12/30/2006, 9:52 am EST

So CP, you don’t think we should lead the world in meeting the ever-rising consumer demand for green tech?

Not only is it good business, it’s bound to be good for our grandkids.

C U in Hell | 12/30/2006, 12:49 pm EST

Pig, you are a dumb ass. I’m not even going to bother delineating all the staggering idiocies in that load of bullshit you just laid on us. Good Christ.

I will say, though, that I think it’s funny the United States is poised to become the last country on Earth to accept global warming as a fact when we’re also the one with the most to gain, economically speaking, from developing alternative fuels and protecting the environment. I think that once people like Mr. Pig here wise up to the enormous (read: negative) economic implications of global climate change, they’ll scrap they’re whole “it’s all a left-wing conspiracy” shtick.

Jab | 12/30/2006, 5:52 pm EST

Ditto what C U said, we have the most to gain, that is, the people have more to gain. ExxonMobil obviously haven’t shoved their oil covered dick into the ethanol industry, or they’d be along for the ride. The critics of global warming exploit the same weakness in the scientific community that Creatonists do, constant debate. Which is, as Pig said, the nature of science, but makes it seem indecisive. The only decent arguements they’ve got for ethanol concern the price/gallon and the low mileage. The price/gallon would drop when rural land owners perceive a want for product in the market and start growing more of it. And the inefficiency, people can fucking deal with that. Since ethanol doesn’t stink, stain, or . . . do anything that gas does except burn(and ohhh does it burn), I’d be cool having to fuel up more often. That is until the auto manufacturers start producing cars with better mileage—they could now, just wouldn’t see a rise in their Exxon-Mobil stock.

This whole ordeal isn’t new or any different than we’re used to, it just happens to be taking one hell of a toll on our environment. Too bad I haven’t found Him: now would be an opportune time to get whisked up into the sky holding the hands of an angel. Oh well, guess I’ll just have to settle for being whisked by a “nuculear”(Bush) explosion.

CapitalistCow | 12/30/2006, 6:13 pm EST

As far as I see it, Pig is the only one to post a comment who lacks all measure of foresight. Not only does the United States have the most to gain by turning it’s economy “green” but our society has the most to lose. The extreme level of dependence our society has developed on fossil fuels is driven by the oh-so-human characteristics of laziness and a love of comfort. Pig, imagine for a moment a world where your children have to hunt, grow or harvest every scrap of food they consume, rather than picking up a frozen burrito at the 7-11 like you do. Imagine the rage these descendants of yours will feel at the greed and ignorance that drove your generation to sacrifice the planet so you can have a mini-van and leave your lights on all night long. Shame on you and shame on all those like you who value personal convience and material gain over the welfare and lives of your descendants!

Word | 12/30/2006, 9:21 pm EST

Going green is also a national security issue: reducing the dependence on foreign oil reduces our obligations and interests in mid-east states. Helps take the money away from the Saudis, where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from.

C Co... aka I Smell Propaganda | 12/30/2006, 11:08 pm EST

Both quotes are right (even if the quotes are out of context… I’ve come to accept that with RS).

We should do more to limit the emissions of CO2 gases, BUT we also aren’t sure if the global changes taking place are solely due to global warming or Earth’s natural fluctuations. Polarizing the issue doesn’t help anything. In fact it cause more resistance to actual good, useful change. We can help the planet without having to be extreme tree-loving hippies. It’s better for everyone if we can find that balance.

Jack D | 12/31/2006, 1:04 pm EST

A. China has billions invested in the American economy, so I doubt they want to see it implode.

B. Big Tobacco blatantly lied about the dangers of smoking to make billions. If the Pharmacutical companies were paying Docs to push a dangerous “miracle” drug, they would be fined and reprimanded. Why should it be any different for Big Oil? They are doing the same thing.

C. True, there are natural cycles that the earth goes through. However, the climate has never fluctuated this much, naturally. WE ARE MAKING IT MORE SEVERE!!! If you don’t believe the science look at the changing seasons. I live in Detroit. It’s 50 fucking degrees and raining on New Years Eve. We’ve had snow storms in April, and heat waves in October/November.

I often wonder if the religion kooks out there really want a global catastrafuck and major war in the middle east simply because they think it will signal the appocolypse and the return of their god. keep praying you simple fools. I refuse to let your belief in fairy tales fuck up my existance, and my decendants.

Jab | 12/31/2006, 1:16 pm EST

And your credentials? Global warming is happening, we just don’t know the specific reason. It’s not difficult to tell when things are heating up, generally because the temperature rises. We know the temperature is rising across the globe, we just don’t know why. We know that the rising temperature of the ocean is causing methane deposits on the ocean floor to release and heat our planet up more. If you cared to read the stories about the melting glaciers, you’d also know that they are melting. I believe Greenland’s quickly losing their glaciers, and by 2040 or ‘50 they won’t have any at all. Now, if you still choose to call it a hoax, you can fill your car with premium unleaded, lock your dumb ass in garage, and sit with the motor running until you choose to open up your mind a bit.

I bet you’re one of those people who’d like to teach our children scientific creationism.

Jab | 12/31/2006, 1:23 pm EST

Yeah, like Jack D pointed out, this may be a natural cycle at the core, but likely we’re just making its effects more extreme. Paleologically speaking, we’re barely out of the Pleistocene, and thus the last Ice Age(little more than 10 to 15,000ya).

Word | 12/31/2006, 2:10 pm EST

“We do not know how much effect natural fluctuations in climate may have had on warming. We do not know how much our climate could, or will change in the future. We do not know how fast change will occur, or even how some of our actions could impact it.”–Bush

So the fact we don’t know is reason enough not to act? What happened to the 1% doctrine? Cheney’s church of paranoia hymn that if there is a 1% chance another country would attack us we should attack them first. We have evidence there is more than a little chance burning fossil fuels is contributing to global warming. Why aren’t we acting? Because Bush and Cheney aren’t just in the pockets of big oil, the ARE big oil.

Thunderbolt Buddha | 1/2/2007, 1:32 am EST

Okay, let’s forget the whole environmental aspect of this argument. Wouldn’t be wise to look at alternative fuels b/c the oil in the ground is not, despite some people’s opinion, an unlimited resource? There will come a day when it’s all gone. So I honestly don’t see the problem with a push towards alternative fuels. We will have to do so eventually, anyway. Why not now, so we will never have to see the day when the wells run dry? And it could help the enviornemnt. Two birds with one stone.

Jed Clampett | 1/2/2007, 12:15 pm EST

I don’t quite understand why you guys wanna get involved in a discussion with the hog and the fart smeller. They are not at all interested in conversation or discourse. they will taunt you and goad you into an argument about their personal views and their utter inability for empathy or imagination. They will draw you down with insults and stupidity until you use their tactics and lose your temper and wit. which is how they lost theyr wit. Treat them like the dog whisperer treated erik kartman. just ignore their ass. Ain’t worth the time to bother with. If they get particularly nasty, give them a quick jab and go back to ignoring them. And for God’s sake, don’t waste your time reading their posts. If you’ve read any of their posts in the past… it’s the same stuff, only the text is slightly different.

C Co... aka I Smell Propaganda | 1/2/2007, 3:51 pm EST

Jed Clampett | 1/2/2007, 12:15 pm EST

I don’t quite understand why you guys wanna get involved in a discussion with the hog and the fart smeller…

—-

Yet you use quotes like that to pick fights (notice I wasn’t even in the current discussion). Funny that outside of conversations with you, the debates have been largely civil and good for everyone. Your shallow attempts at opining, when all you’re really doing is malevolently stirring the pot, suggest a tremendous lack of deep cognitive ability.

Jack D | 1/2/2007, 5:46 pm EST

C Co,
Settle down kid, you don’t exactly have the market cornered on civility or cognitive ability either. Elloquence and vocabulary don’t mask hostility.

Pig,
A. Money rules over everything, even communisim. Ask the Russians.

B. The oil companies lie because to affirm or even flinch at global warming or the finite amount of the world’s crude would cost them money. They make money by controling the world’s energy resources. I’m quite sure they are researching new fuel sources, but, they won’t let that cat out of the bag until they have sucked EVERY penny out of their current source.

C. Exactly right about Denver. Only thing is, these last two storms were the first of the winter. It’s January. Those first big snowfalls used to happen in Oct/Nov. Also, the current research is saying that the Ice Age was caused by a “nuclear” type winter either from massive/several volcano eruptions or a large meteor hitting the earth. A catastrophic event. We are just making our own “event”.

Leif Erikson discovered and named Greenland. He did so because it was summer AND he landed on the southern tip of the “island” which had no glaciers at the time.

I guess if all Liberal causes are just a cover for the redistribution of wealth, then all Conservative causes must be cover for the wealthiest 5% to keep all the money and power in the world and fuck everyone else.

Capitalist Pig | 1/3/2007, 4:58 pm EST

Jack D

“I guess if all Liberal causes are just a cover for the redistribution of wealth, then all Conservative causes must be cover for the wealthiest 5% to keep all the money and power in the world and fuck everyone else.”

Jack the fact is the liberals are the ones who always use wealth redistribution to solve all problems, I did not make that one up. Look at the global warming solution…a carbon tax. As for your statement about 5% controlling all the wealth and screwing the rest of us, you should first realize that Pelosi, chicken little, Kerry, Kennedy, and all the other liberal leaders are part of that 5%. Then you should realize that they are not about to redistribute their wealth, only yours and mine, and every other middle class person. Finally you, and all liberals, should learn the truth about wealth. It is not a zero sum game. Just because someone has $1 Billion in wealth does not mean I cannot make $1 million, or even $1 billion myself. If you would spend less time worrying about what others have you might could build your own wealth. And income redistribution does not help the poor, jobs help the poor.

Word | 1/3/2007, 7:56 pm EST

“Finally you, and all liberals, should learn the truth about wealth. It is not a zero sum game. Just because someone has $1 Billion in wealth does not mean I cannot make $1 million, or even $1 billion myself. If you would spend less time worrying about what others have you might could build your own wealth.”

Excellent argument for net neutrality porky!

Jack D | 1/3/2007, 9:35 pm EST

So call it a carbon fine. How is punishing a company for pollution considered a re-distribution of wealth. It’s not like they are paying directly to the poor and homeless. Either you stick within the rules or you pay the fine, its pretty simple.

The opinion of ALL liberals want a re-distribution of wealth is as ludacris as thinking that ALL Cons want a Christian state. I certainly don’t want to give money out to the poor and needy for no reason. I just want a fair opportunity for ALL to make something of their life. I don’t think the current laws/rules afford that. For the greater percentage….once poor always poor. I’d like to see that change.

Jack D | 1/4/2007, 1:41 pm EST

Great thought. And, very well put, Jed.

Jed Clampett | 1/4/2007, 2:41 pm EST

by the way, I see that you mention Greenland. the name was a way for leif ericsson to mislead others. He named a land covered in glacier greenland and a land full of geysers and hot waters iceland. Merely to keep others away.

Capitalist Pig | 1/4/2007, 5:31 pm EST

Jack D | 1/4/2007, 1:41 pm EST

Great thought. And, very well put, Jed.
—————————- -

Actually it is not a great post nor well thought. Wealth is not a finite resource. If it is how do you explain the fact that there are more millionaires today than there were ten years ago, or twenty years ago, or thirty years ago?

As for Greenland it was not named to fool anyone, it was not covered in ice at the time.

“The fjords of the southern part of the island were lush and had a warmer climate at that time, possibly due to what was called the Medieval Warm Period.”

Seems the earth survived global warming once before. The fact is a warmer climate is more suitable for life than cold weather. It increases the growing season, and the food supply. And if you check you will find more people die during extreme cold weather than during extreme heat.

C Co... aka I Smell Propaganda | 1/4/2007, 6:39 pm EST

Jack D | 1/2/2007, 5:46 pm EST

C Co,
Settle down kid, you don’t exactly have the market cornered on civility or cognitive ability either. Elloquence and vocabulary don’t mask hostility.

Funny this comes from a person who swears and spews angry insult on 80% of the posts he leaves. I have a right to civily defend myself from people trying to pick fights for no reason. Again, you defend the person opposite me because it’s me, and not what I said. I wasn’t being hostile and I responded reasponably. If you weren’t so caught up in your defense of anyone else who is a democrat, you would realize this. For further examples of this, look at the comment below me.

Jed Clampett | 1/4/2007, 9:40 pm EST

See how I threw that out there for him to root on? :D

Actually, the story about Leif Ericson is a myth!!! He was born in Iceland, he didn’t name it.

Notice how he used it to formulate an attack then avoided any of the good points in the original post? He thinks he’s in at war with us for some reason and must shoot down anything we say, sort of like the previous congress.

The only wealth that matters is that which is tangible. The trees, clean water, diversity and abundance of flora and fauna, clean air to breathe and a peaceful environment in which to enjoy it all in. Many people thought they were really wealthy and suddenly woke up to find all their ‘wealth’ gone. The market crach b4 the great depression comes to mind as one such event.

In being distracted by the ‘disruptors’ we missed ‘thunderbolt buddha’s post (great name btw). How is it possible that we cannot come up with better ways of generating energy, principaly electricity, for our needs.
Being that the sun is the greatest source of energy around, why is it we are not tapping that resource to a greater degree? There’s a great folly in the way we generate and distribute electricity. We think it has to be generated in huge power plants and distributed by wires and sold at prohibitive costs. I mean seriously, do you really need to tap people for $500 a month to keep cool in summer? That logic is designed to make a few people rich and is truly very inneficient, in that inefficiency and confusion, great amounts of money is made and lost.
There is absolutely no reason why you wouldn’t be able to have a small unit that takes advantage of solar, wind and rain to keep your home electrified all year long and even be able to sell the excess to the electric company. How would you like to save around $3k a year and maybe even make some money off the deal?

Wanna start reversing the climate change that is coming? start showing we care. Stop clear cutting forests, force logging companies to replant what they’ve taken with the same native species. Don’t turn a hardwood forest into pine trees? it isn’t the same. Life thrives on diversity.

Let’s hope Tesla Motors takes off and can force a change in the big automakers and make them go electric. Crank up the volts baby!!!

Jack D | 1/5/2007, 8:03 pm EST

You’re right Jed, my bad. Leif was born there. His father Erik the Red discovered it.

Yes, C Co, you have the right to blah, blah, blah. What the fuck good is it to pick a fight with a damn computer screen? If you were standing in front of me, yea, I might be inclined. Also, I curse, drop your fucking purse and get over it.

I defend others because I either agree with their comment or because you tend to go off on your little neo-con tangent of senator speak. Meaning: Just because you have some elloquence and a good vocabulary (compliment) does not mean you always know what the fuck you’re talking about.

Remember one thing, on the forums what you say IS who you are. I have no other context of who you actually are. So, yes, I attack you for who you are AND what you say.

Jack D | 1/5/2007, 8:09 pm EST

One more thought C Co. We do and say the same shit to eachother. We’re just on opposite sides of the debate. You just mask the hostility with big words, and I don’t hide mine. Come down off your pedestal and you might realize that.

Word | 1/6/2007, 1:04 am EST

Porkchop,

Allow me to destroy completely any argument you have that big oil does not contribute to global warming.

I quote Exxon-Mobil: “It is clear today that greenhouse gas emissions are one of the factors that contribute to climate change, and that the use of fossil fuels is a major source of these emissions.”

How does it feel when your primary defender-big oil-admits it’s contributing to “climate change?” Do you feel like southerners must have felt after Lincoln fucked them up in the Civil War? Do you feel like the stupid idiot the rest of America expects you to be? It’s always been known the south is the dunce of the great nation of the United States. And that’s not prejudice, it’s just true.

So keep on promoting that propoganda southerner! You do it so well…

C Co... aka I Smell Propaganda | 1/6/2007, 4:37 pm EST

Jack D
I’m not hostile and I type the way I talk. My “big words” (what?) have no other meaning than what I use them for.

Capitalist Pig | 1/6/2007, 6:49 pm EST

Word – What is your source for the Exxon quote? As for your childish attacks on the south, I hate to disappoint you but it does not get under my skin, it just shows how childish you are, grow up.

Word | 1/7/2007, 4:50 am EST

Porky,

The quote was from a Newsweek article.

Word | 1/7/2007, 4:54 am EST

Oh yeah, the south sucks.

Capitalist Pig | 1/7/2007, 12:32 pm EST

Word | 1/7/2007, 4:50 am EST

Porky,

The quote was from a Newsweek article.
————————–

What was the date of the article? Sounds like some shit you made up. And Exxon’s belief or disbelief has nothing to do with what I believe. I do not follow junk science.

Jed Clampett | 1/7/2007, 11:56 pm EST

He said as in other posts he spits a bunch of made up percentages as if they were fact without as much as a link to the source. If you ask him where he got it, he tells you to go find it yourself. Then he demands greater accountability from others. Don’t you realize what you are dealing with yet?

Capitalist Pig | 1/8/2007, 11:04 pm EST

Jed Clampett | 1/7/2007, 11:56 pm EST

He said as in other posts he spits a bunch of made up percentages as if they were fact without as much as a link to the source. If you ask him where he got it, he tells you to go find it yourself. Then he demands greater accountability from others. Don’t you realize what you are dealing with yet?
—————————-

Jed I gladly state where my info comes from, but I notice you still are the master of the dodge.

Word | 1/9/2007, 8:42 pm EST

The article was posted on Newsweek’s site last thursday.

Jed Clampett | 1/9/2007, 10:03 pm EST

Word, the link I had posted and apparently was removed because of all the outside links that were included had a story from the BBC (if memory serves me right) about a retired, conscience ridden ex CEO of BP that had admitted all the damage being done by Carbon based fuels and how they had formed a group to help spread disinformation.

Word | 1/10/2007, 12:15 am EST

The article I was talking about reported Exxon Mobil’s explicit reactions to report the Union of Concerned Scientists had released last week. (Newsweek). (And fuck you Rolling Stone).

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I haven’t been up to much lately. Eh. I just don’t have anything to say right now. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing worth mentioning. That’s how it is. I haven’t gotten anything done.

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I feel like a fog, not that it matters. I’ve pretty much been doing nothing , but eh. Today was a loss. I haven’t gotten much done for a while.

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I can’t be bothered with anything recently. I’ve just been sitting around doing nothing. Today was a loss. I just don’t have much to say. Nothing seems worth thinking about.

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Americans owe, doesn’t owe Vietnam veterans an apology

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Males should be allowed to go shirtless at home only – Or vary with places for another persuasive speech topic

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Sex offenders should be, should not be castrated

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Help the homeless down the street and persuade them to look for work

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Global Warming Isn’t A Threat

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accomplish | 8/31/2007, 11:44 pm EST

Hallo! Es hat sich doch gezeigt, dass die 301 Umleitung einer minus-31 Domain nichts bringt weil die Seite auf die umgeleitet wird auch auf Platz 31 landet. Wenn nun jemand seine -31 Domain auf meine Domain umleiten wurde um mich als Konkurrenten zu argern, gabe es fur mich keine Moglichkeit diese Manipulation herauszufinden. Ich wurde ratseln was ich falsch gemacht hatte und dabei ist es nur ein Trick der Konkurrenz. Edit: Ich habe die Frage vergessen! Gibt es doch eine Moglichkeit herauszufinden ob jemand seine Domain auf meine umgeleitet hat?

medal | 9/7/2007, 1:35 am EST

ofia accueille un forum du business bulgaro-israelien, organise par la Chambre de commerce et dindustrie de Bulgarie. La delegation israelienne comprend des representants de dix compagnies des secteurs des prestations financieres, des hautes technologies, des prestations juridiques et de consulting, de lagriculture, de lagroalimentaire et des telecommunications.

sleepsins | 9/21/2007, 6:40 am EST

Life begins at conception, begins at birth – Or come up with another stage and develop a different persuasive speech topic

nasty fetishpass | 9/22/2007, 4:26 am EST

My life’s been pretty dull these days. Not much on my mind recently. My mind is like a fog, but shrug. I haven’t been up to anything today, but oh well. I haven’t gotten much done lately.

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I just don’t have much to say recently. Maybe tomorrow. Pfft. Whatever. Today was a loss.

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My life’s been basically bland recently. I can’t be bothered with anything recently. Pretty much nothing seems important. I’ve basically been doing nothing worth mentioning.

Jeniffer | 10/3/2007, 12:39 am EST

People are less moral than 30 years ago

bab | 10/7/2007, 1:46 am EST

Juvenile delinquents should be sentenced to bootcamp

john | 10/9/2007, 5:05 am EST

I’ve just been staying at home waiting for something to happen. I just don’t have much to say right now, but so it goes. I’ve basically been doing nothing to speak of, but shrug. Today was a loss. I don’t care. That’s how it is.

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Today was a loss. I just don’t have anything to say. Not that it matters.

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