Iraq is a lost effort and has been. Al Qaeda will continue to gain strenght thanx to bush and the neocons. An all time low for the USA.

yet the democratic congress (well the leaders anyway) want to just pull out and leave Iraq with that

I would argue that a decapitating strike is possible, but it would require the US to fight dirty, and we’re not about to do that

Iraq can go two ways now. It can either break apart with numerous warring factions ala Yugoslavia, or the groups within Iraq can fight it out until one group simply out-kills the other, ala Nicaragua. I think an important point to remember is that if Iraq breaks apart, it will only mean that Iran and Syria will have an even greater influence. all the more reason to invest in alternative energy sources…

What a fucked situation. Thank you ever so much, right-wing assholes, for sending us down shit creek without a paddle.

What’s the point in sticking around, though, if it’s just going to breed more of the fuckers? Why not pull out, get neighboring countries involved, play the foreign jihadists against the Iraqi sectarian groups, form alliances, et cetera et cetera? Oh yeah, because that would be DIPLOMACY, and we all know that diplomacy is for effeminate communist homosexual democrats. Real men start unwinnable wars and get thousands of people killed in vain.

….”but it would require the US to fight dirty, and we’re not about to do that.”

You actually think we have been playing fair, so far? Granted, we could get much nastier, but, you see Gitmo and the “black site” prisons in Europe as fair?

The US has not played fair since we became a “super power”, and most likley never will again. You don’t get to our level of power and finance by playing fair. Enron, anyone? It’s the same with business or government/politics. The nastiest, most brutal mother fuckers are always on top.

good point Jack

i wasnt thinking along those lines per se, more in terms of not cozying up to Sadr and his militias, but actually combating them, as opposed to cowtowing to them in the name of “democracy”, by placating them with various “carrots on a stick”

we should have rooted the cancer out several years ago, instead of dropping back and waiting for it to get stronger and spread

to add to your point–war always brings you down to your lowest common denominator, and the nastiest does seem to win, but will the US go that far(not counting gitmo and whatnot)

Sadrs are a dime a dozen. The reason you see a shiite party militantly asserting its power is that the Shiites were oppressed for so long under Saddam.

The idea that splitting up the country would make Iran and Syria stronger? It’s already happened. And honestly, so what? The way things seem right now, Iran and Syria benefit in any situation because they must be called upon to stem the violence; they’ll want concessions from the u.s.(Israel) if they’re going to lift a pinkie to help us, yet they’d have less to help us with if we partition the Iraq. Concessions to Iran and Syria-barring shit about Iran’s nuclear capabilities- won’t hurt us a bit either. It might lose the Israelis the Golan heights or whatever but why should I care about that? I’m American, NOT AN ISRAELI.

By partitioning the country and bringing each faction into the international community, you give incentive to those who want prosperity for thier countries and take support away from destructive influences like Al Queda.

Let me also say this: the only reason Bush doesn’t want to partition Iraq is because of pride: he doesn’t want to admit he’s totally fucked up. Well, pride is what got him into Iraq in the first place: he thought he was strong enough to remake the entire middle east. Anyone out there still want to follow Bush’s pride? Thought not.

Not really cool with you calling the troops bloodthirsty criminals. You know damn well that the majority of the troops who serve are good people wanting to help out their country. They are the ones fighting so the rest of us can stay safe. I’d like you say what you did to John McCain or Pat Tillman’s mother. Yeah, I don’t think so either. Lets have some respect and not jumps to generalizations about groups of people. Discrimination to military individuals is as equally not acceptable as it is to black people or women. Stay civilized.

I want moderate Iraqis to “out” members of these militias causing violence, not join them. More violence in Iraq isn’t going to help anyone. If you didn’t call the troops “bloodthirsty criminals” I’m sorry. From your wording that’s what it looked like. Everyone wants the violence to stop and everyone wants the troops home. We should the best method that allows us to do that. Sorry, was that a generalization?

no,not too generalized, but it’s more moderate. What we fail to recognize is that this thing is already going overboard and into cascade mode. The moderate people in Iraq have as much power to oust these folks as you or I have to make a police officer stop tazering a subdued individual. And pointing fingers there can truly get you and your family killed.

It is true that we all want this violence to stop. It is human nature to want to live in peace, improve life’s condition for our children and out bretheren and to prosper. Unfortunately there are many who feel that for them to succeed, others have to fail. That creates disparity and antagonism which leads to wars, be they civil (stupid term) or between nations.

What we’ve got here is a complete cluster fuck that cannot be resolved as easily as merely getting the hell out of Iraq. The genie is out of the bottle and cannot be put back in by force, it has to be outsmarted. If americans were truly intelligent as they think they are, they should immediately restart the draft and prepare for a global conflict while at the same time working the diplomatic avenues as aggressively as possible. That doesn’t mean be aggressive, it means do your damnest to solve issues politically rather than by war. Also, do whatever is possible to achieve high levels of employment, force these huge companies to invest in their nation rather than in their wallets and stop giving them out tax money.. The rewards will truly be even better than just being greedy. Nothing is set in stone however, this is not the time for complacency and divisivenes.

BTW- first step to recovery is admiting your shortcomings.