Excuse me, “prefer” and “publicly”.

thats proll the biggest crap ive ever heard. are those people serious? i mean they’re against the pop-culture and all that shit, but they promote their activities the same way?? dude, thats messed up.
and btw, how can they put sex as a bad thing’

Luce-fer’s preachin’ lies and ignorance.

Fundamentalists, of whatever walk, are dangerous.

Im a chritian Ibelieve in spreading the Gosphel. My problem is the political wing and ther support for the war against right to choose and right to die. agenda after i read the Bible i became less conservitve and less patrotic

Ignorance is bliss … what a bunch of rediculous nonsense. Keep this bullshit where it belongs… on the fringe.

i don’t know the whole story. i really doubt this article portrays this as it ACTUALLY is. None of that really matters, though.

(This is VERY, VERY, VERY generalized, but,) the Church, in a lot of ways, is not much like what Jesus intended. He DID say to spread the Gospel, but i know He DID’NT mean that we should do it by just totally trashing people. He meant for us to do it out of love.

“This is the kind of love we are talking about—not that we once upon a time loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to clear away our sins and the damage they’ve done to our relationship with God.” -1st John 4:10

You people took the Native American land and this is what is become of it!!!!!
Two-Spirited The wolves and all living beings or animals are my brother and sisters

Propaganda- that’s because the “Christian Soldiers” pose a greater threat to our democracy than the so-called, Islamo-Facists. They’re successfully taking over our country one brain-washed kid at a time. They’ve got to be halted.

P.S.-a good movie to watch on the subject is the documentry “Jesus Camp”. It’s pretty fair-handed and truly frightening.

i am curious to see what intrests these kids have outside of battlecry endorsed products or activities, and what are their attitudes towards certain controversial issues involving science and art.

DeezNutz
Militant Christians are an extremist fringe movement. Islamic fascists have killed millions of people, 3000 of which on 9/11. To say that extremist Christians pose more of a threat to us is absurd.

By the way, do you know how easy it is to make a propaganda film like “Jesus Camp”? A movie like that PROVES NOTHING because there are extremists everywhere (really not fair or balanced either; look at the views of Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady). In no way do the actions of those in the film reflect what 99% of Christians believe or do. Anyone can take a camera, film some nutjobs, edit it up in a nice package, and portray it as something more than what is actually taking place (just ask Michael Moore).

That’s not to say that extreme evangelicals are right in what they do and how they operate, but their existence is overblown and has very little real power in this country. I would be more concerned with, you know, the people who use terrorism and murder as a means of maintaining public policy. Sorry if you think differently.

This part isn’t necessarily directed at you DeezNutz: Look, it’s fine to not approve of these people (I don’t), but they are not the ones who represent Christianity. I’m sick of the people who hate on Christians, because the vast, vast majority of them are honest, understanding people just trying to live good lives. The flabbergasting amount of hate directed at them is prejudicial in nature and wildly misguided. Christians should be respected because they respect other people, no matter how much the liberal writers want to portray them all as extremist evangelicals. They’re not, and those who think they are need to get some perspective.

there is something not right with Ron Luce…he sounds like a cult leader and follows the same patterns as those who were…like the guy from waco texas…he spoke about the bible but then made it into something that was his own…how easy is it to brainwash a depressed teen…if you say the right things then how hard is it…and for the record i am a christian…but i am totally against this cult leader…

C Co,

Most liberals are christians. It’s not self hatred they’re expressing it’s a hatred of the repressive worldview of some fringe evangelicals. And your contention that evangelicals aren’t a factor in this country is wrong. Evangelicals make up approx. 1/4 of the vote in the U.S. Bush has proven how easily this population can be subverted and manipulated through religious analogies and propaganda.

In my view stupidity is the worst danger we face today, not islamic terrorism. Evangelicals fall into the stupid category because they continue to allow themselves to be suckered by the Bushies (who refer to them as “crazies”). They fall for religious propaganda every time (don’t they ever wonder why no one strikes down roe v. wade? could it possibly be because it’s a cash cow for republican votes in every single election???)And the funny thing is abortion isn’t even outlawed in the bible (Soloman, the “wisest” man in the Bible wished he had been aborted more than once when he was in his depressive periods). In my view, evangelicals are probably the easiest group in this country to manipulate because they’re the dumbest.

Obama said it better: “I’m not against all wars, I’m against stupid ones.” Evangelicals help start stupid wars. They’re dangerous.

This article is ridiculous.
I don’t understand why this is a story at all.
And why is Rolling Stone using video from Youtube video?

Yikes, those people are frightening. That little PSA looked like what would happen if Jack Chick took over MTV.

this

That last clip isn’t O’Reilly Factor, as it’s labeled, it’s ABC News.

If someone like John Hagee went on his little national television show and said there is a very good possibility that God will destroy America if Hillary Clinton is elected president (something he could still do) how many of his viewers wouold believe that without question? I would say somewhere around 30-40% at least. This is the problem with American evangelical movement, it makes God seem like he cares more about America and which party gets into power then he does about children in Africa dying of AIDS. These people’s biggest concern is what’s on TV then it is with real problems.

Yeah, this looks ominous. Convince someone that god is on their side and you’ve got a lifelong looney.

But hey, the US goes through religious cycles like this constantly. When Emperor Reagan ruled it was the same thing only without fireworks.

Don’t worry folks, next decade some new trend(or a military draft) will come along and the CD Exchange’ll only pay you 0.50$ for a Pillar record.

And fortunately, the elections in November showed that the rest of the country does not share such hardliner beliefs.

So relax.

I love the tolerance here. I guess tolerance is only reserved for those who are liberal.

And one idiot, the AnnCoultercum guy (classy), actually thinks christians, and christian conservatives, are for taking away peoples basic rights.
Let’s see, who wants to control speech THEY find objectionable … liberals. Who wants to tell me what and how to eat … liberals.
Who answers facts with name-calling and ad hominem attacks? You guessed it … liberals.
It’s not enough to disagree, libs like placing labels on people who don’t think like they do.
Now … go ahead and lable me a brownshirt wearing, seal-clubbing, corporate America loving sociopath.
Tolerance … it sounds nice but libs just can’t practice what they preach. Hypocrites all.

It’s okay, I suppose for the kids to listen to Ron Luce. I strongly suggest getting the fuck away from him when he trots out the large Kool-Aid tureen!

yo this is straight up wack and I dont approce

I tried to understand this but all I can hear coming out of this guys mouth is hipocracy

teen Christians, turn to god, not to Ron Luce

Poor girl. Suffering from drug addiction and depression goes into a cult and gets brainwashed. Luce preys on those who are experiencing mental anguish and, as the show reveals, is quite eager to rake in the profit. Just another scam artist preying on our youth.

This is a very one-sided article, Rolling Stone needed to make a story out of this.

The fact is, large religious organizations will always have their flaws, but if an Acquire the Fire or BattleCry event opens a teens eyes to corruption in our culture and positivly suggests a virtuous lifestyle than thats admirable.

If Ron Luce was really as “pissed off” or if Teen Mania “brainwashed” kids as much as this article suggests, I doubt it would have grown as much as it has since it’s begining.

as a Christian, my beef with ron luce stems from the fact that he uses war-based themes (*battle* cry) for his Christian events.

this mentality really comes through in some of the actions of evangelical believers, who would prefer to argue as a tool of evangelism instead of love. (”preach the gospel at all times… when necessary, use words.” – st. francis)

seeing Christianity as a “battle” is really counter to the message of Jesus, not to mention highly ineffective as an evangelism method… it only digs in the heels of both sides until both are so deeply entrenched in what they believe – wrong or right – that they refuse to see it any differently.

anyone that has disbelief jesus is our devine savior has simply been caught up in everyday lifes turmoil. I call these people misbreeds. A second breed of humans that don’t have a clue as to what life has to offer them. they live day to day just getting by with no set goals other than what the “world” has to offer their secular needs. what a shame!! the finer things in life are actually very simple. LOVE PEACE AND TRANQUILITY ALL FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT> GOD SAVE US!!

Ron Luce uses the term Battle Cry because we are called to be soldiers! Here is the proof!

2 Timothy 2:3
Endure hardship with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 6:13
Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

ARMOR? SOLDIERS? Seems like God wants us to enlist!!! Study your Bible, Christians! That is our SWORD! That’s what it says in the word, if you don’t believe in the word of God you aren’t a Christian!

Well, I see hypocracy at its finest here. They themselves use pop culture to brain wash. go to their site, you will see a young woman who looks like Avril Lavine. This is an advertising technique. they sell things and create their own brand. Who says having a drink is bad? who says having sex is bad? Not me, not most of the world. Taking young people at the most vulnerable time in their lives and shoving trash down their throats is wrong. Going into san fransisco and rallying is like going inot Iraq. But I’m sure they think that the war on Iraq was right too. Ron Luce, if you so firmly believe in this, then you’ll realize that according to your religion, you will burn in “hell” one day. have fun, and tell the devil I say hey.

(AS IN: WITHOUT RELIGION FOR ALL YOU KNUCKLEHEADS OUT THERE). Speaking as a relatively conservative atheist libertarian who tends to vote Democrat (hey, at least most of them don’t condemn me to hell, or get this oh-so-adorable look of confusion on their face as they ask “why do you hate god?”), this kind of thing does and should freak one out. Christianity has always been a vehicle of nation-building (inherited from its forebearers in Judaism, but much more effective, historically) that doesn’t often pause to consider whether or not it *should* pound its enemies into a thin, creamy paste. Considering, despite its protest of “attacks” by some ominous secular humanist movement, the ungodly (excuse the pun) amount of power and influence the Christian MAJORITY in this nation, these movements–underhanded, predatory, and cult-like–represent a real threat to our life and liberty. Good thing, as the article notes, we tend to be a bit better educated, and even minority groups can enforce consessions from the majority. We’ll just stop making their tech for them.
And Dewrock69: one could say your own unswerving faith has lead you to ignore, denegrate, and miss out on the wonders of the natural world, without all the ghosts, unicorns and other imaginary supernatural beings. It is pretty nifty out there, and I don’t need an omnipotent imaginary best friend to tell me that (and not to enjoy some tough self-love every once in a while).

And, Jena, please, please, calm the f down before you pop something.

I have been to an Acquire the Fire conference. I was and am not suffeirng from “mental anguish”. I don’t “worship” Ron Luce; in fact, he wasn’t even a part of everything that happened. At the one I went to, there were at least three different speakers, including the Miss America at the time (whose name I don’t remember.) Everyone I know that went, went for the music. It was a chance to see a lot of our favorite bands in one place, and so we went. I do agree with the message though. You all need to understand that when they say “battle”, they do not mean a physcal battle, but a spiritual one. I realize that I’m probably going to get attacked for this, but that’s okay. I just wanted to stand up for what I believe in. Have a nice day.

Sorry, “was not and am not”, not “was and am not”
~AB

Let’s see: sex = bad, brainwashing from a fringe militant cult that idolizes make-believe gods = good.

Hmmm. Good luck with that, kids.

what’s sad about this commentary is that God deals with His people separately from other people. Biblically, people who do not know God or follow His ways can come into relationship with Him if they abandon their way of living and adopt His way of living.

The invitation is open but the draw for them a person’s ability to truthfully handle hardship over the long haul. In this, the outsider can see a possible Other influence and desire to know more and have the same character pattern.

Everyone else gets to live as they want.

He’s not saying that sex itself is bad, just when it happens outside of marriage.

okay just to stop all of this, if any of you watched the video at the bottom theres one kid who said “were not saying everyone should go out and be like us, but this is who we are.”

i don’t agree with this bs either, but really if that’s what they want to do…fucking let em….and for all of you who do agree with it, be more like that kid and leave those alone who don’t agree with it, quit trying to force feed it to people.

Who is brainwashing? The media? Our culture? Advertising? Religion? Yes, all of them.

But, if your brain is dirty wouldn’t you want to wash it? OMG! ROFL!

C Co… aka I Smell Propaganda | 4/6/2007, 11:00 pm EST
” I would be more concerned with, you know, the people who use terrorism and murder as a means of maintaining public policy.”

Like, maybe, our current administration?

“I’m sick of the people who hate on Christians, because the vast, vast majority of them are honest, understanding people just trying to live good lives. The flabbergasting amount of hate directed at them is prejudicial in nature and wildly misguided. Christians should be respected because they respect other people”

BULLSHIT!!!! 50 % of the christians that I know have pure disdain for those that either don’t believe, or are of another faith. Meanwhile, many liberals and non-believers simply don’t believe in any form of cult….er, religion. It’s OK for you, but stop trying to convert the rest of us into your little fantasy.

Luce = Lucifer

Fascism takes on a Christian form, again. I wonder how many will die this time in the name of religion? While in its current state Christian Nationalist movement is relatively docile, where is it headed? The endgame is real war, whether it is spoken openly or not.

These people want their ideology to be our laws. They’re more dangerous than Islamofacists because 1) they’re here, 2) they’re infiltrating our govenment and military, and 3) nothing is being done to curb their spread.

Congradulations, Christian Fascists, you’re on par with the Nazi’s.

i would bone charlotte

Kids are always looking for something to relate to. In general, many kids are just looking for a place to fit in. Luce is using religion to take advantage of these children for his own personal gain. If you change the setting just a little bit, this guy sounds like a fucking Nazi. This is exactly what Jesus opposed. Jesus preached of peace, love, and not being hypocritical of one another. Live and let live. We are all family in this house called Earth.

Now, let’s be careful with “Nazi” comments (they never seem to go anywhere, and tend to quickly degenerate conversations into screaming matches). While, yes, this movement seems to have some strategic similarities with that disreputable group, I would argue that all antagonistic/revolutionary groups (the effective, large-scale ones, that is) would use the same strategy. Bold, branded symbols work. A sense of authority in what you do, a sense of superiority–they work to organize closely-nit, paramilitary (not using that in the usual negative connotation, just as a fair description) organization. Regardless of ideological origins. I see much the same tactics among the “dirty hippies” (my term) in my own home town.
Anyway, wiseFool, the Christian Nationalists are hardly docile. Their primary actions tend to be pretty grassroots–and away from what many of us regard as the primary cultural and media-saavy centers of the nation. Small town USA, in other words. In addition to that, the real movers and shakers absolutely shun media attention in their Illuminati inspired planning sessions. Luce is not the mover and shaker; rather, he is a publicity figure that those Powers that Be in the true Nationalist movement use to organize a recruiting system–oh, crap, even I am making the Nazi allusion, unintentionally. Sounds far too Hitler Youth. Sorry. Not my intention–again, effective models are effective models; the Nazi’s just made several effective models rather infamous. Anyway, while hoards of hoodie-bedecked, Cross-Wielding skater punks and riot grrls worries me, it is the effective infiltration of our government at all levels which truly scares me. They tend to use what many would consider mistakes of the past as precedent to drive their vision forward…

What I see in Charlotte is merely a typical change of addiction – from addiction to drugs and addiction to sex to addiction to religion. She looks as stoned-out as she must have looked when she was on drugs.

Is a religious war inevitable? I honestly don’t know. I don’t think we have even seen the first skirmishes yet, though tensions remain high. I think the last election may have delayed the big push a little bit; those wacky evangelicals may have moved a bit early, and caused a backlash before they could truly consolidate their power. FCC over-reactions, faith-based initiatives, anti-abortion legislation, and reports of underhanded politics for the “Great Cause” came on a bit too fast, too furious for the truly conservative (as in, resisting change, either left or right). That is the good news. The bad news: eventually, they are going to realize the true inequality of power in this nation. The intellectuals, the progressives, the centrists, the “leave me the fuck alone to do whatever I want, so long as I do it to myself” vote cannot win. We can’t. We’re being out-bred; we cannot convert and proselytize with the cohesive effectiveness of 2000 years of history. In other words, we’re fucked. But it will be a interesting fight, physical as it may be, but symbollic to say the least.

Ask any Christian if they support slavery, they will say no. Or ask about women voting. Is that OK? Most will say yes. How about civil rights? Probably support it.

In each case it was the Religious Right that opposed all these progressive concepts and, in many cases, it was the mainstream Christians that made such social changes possible; so don’throw out the baby with the bath water.

Dobson, Falwell and the like are nut jobs out shucking for bucks. And folks who don’t know better buy in. Half the folks in the world are dumber than average – the Fundy/GOP base. I mean would there even be a GOP if logic/reason was applied to their platform by US voters? I think not.

Remind folks that not long ago, Christians just as devout, indignant, sure of themselves and filled with the righteousness of God burned women for flying on broomsticks in the night.

Prior to this generation zillions of Christians thought Jesus would return in their lifetime. The batting average to date? Each and every one of those zillions was dead wrong. What makes this generation so sure they’re right? World events? Pestilence, plague, war and famine? Of course they are signs of end times since none of these things has ever occured in the last 2000 years.

Time to follow Jesus, give up the pagan idolitry and walk the walk.

Yours in Beloved Slack,

To truly follow the teachings of Jesus…aka be a “Christian”…would require nothing more than abiding by the only commandment he ever gave, “Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:34-35. I could be wrong, but I really don’t think shouting bigoted and hateful comments or bombing anyone comes even remotely close to what he meant by loving one another.
Or you might also consider Collosions 3:12, which says “Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.”
Doesn’t sound very militant to me. What a different world this would be if some of those who call themselves Christians would actually take the time to study the words and deeds of Jesus Christ, getting past the dogma of organized religion to seek the truth as he taught it. Just a thought.

IT IS LIKE CHRIST_LIKE TO JUDGE!!! The fact that a christian event made it into Rolling Stone Magazine is amazing to me, when I read the article, I was upset, if you do not believe in the way that I believe, DON’T JUDGE ME. The old saying, if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all….well that goes for you. I am sorry that you are not on the bandwagon for heaven, but I am, and all of the rude and snide comments being made… you will have to account for then one day.
Blessing!! In Jesus Name!

I don’t always agree with Rolling Stone Magazine’s journalistic reporting, and neither do I presume to know the intention of why they thought to write this article, nevertheless, I am glad that they reported this.

I am just sorry that a confession evangelical did not criticize this movement first. When these teens grow weary and tired of ‘BattleCry’ there will still be Jesus’ means of grace he has provided to His Church to grow spiritually. When these teens get fed up with just another evangelical, revivalistic attempt to be like Christ (as many other have come and gone), there will still be faithful and biblical creeds and catechisms for them to learn, and the Word, Sacrament and prayer for them to grow strong like Christ. Until then…

“We’re not saying that all of you should go out and be like us, we’re saying this is who we are.” —Kid from Nightline video above.

This is a heavily one-sided article. Rolling Stone obviously had an agenda here… Before you make your own opinion, at least watch the Nightline video or research for yourself.

Some say BattleCry is brainwashing kids… well don’t let Rolling Stone brainwash you with its misguided report. Peace

Asiseeit
No

I really like how in the third video, the woman says something like “this stuff isn’t cheap though is it?” and then the guy responds by saying, “Isn’t it great to see all these positive messages?” It seems kind of suspicious.

Going to BattleCry:
I find it interesting that every Christian is sure they are “on the bandwagon” for heaven. I am sure that is likely true for most religious people, regardless of affiliation. I find statements like “I am trying my best to get into heaven, but it is a work in progress” more appropriate to the faith, given Christian thematic elements. And, are you shitting me? DON”T JUDGE YOU? You hypocritical sack. At least, in my wonderful godless ways, nothing tells me not to judge. I judge because I am my own measure. I am my own source of morals and standards–I worked for it, not playing some lip-service to a ready-made package of (often contradictory) beliefs and ideas. Yeah, mad props to my influences, but I am not going to give much credit unless you DO IT YOURSELF. No more of these snide pukes saying they’re going to the great white fluffy just because they accepted some guy dead 2000 years (a gnat’s fart of time, in historical terms) as their personal savior. That’s not a belief system. That’s an ad campaign, an oft-repeated mantra that seems to lose more and more meaning as their personal behavior diverges GREATLY from their company line.

“if the idiots…” Typo.

The FCA were bad enough when I was a kid. I wouldn’t want my kids running into these jagoffs.

You guys are so ridiculous. Seriously, do you realize the consequences of your actions? Turn away from the wickedness of the world! If you don’t, you’ll be cast into the lake of fire that never dies down!
(call me whatever you want, guys… I’ll be praying for you!)

My children have been taught to make their own decisions. Our family believes in Christ,but that does not mean that we don’t enjoy listening to music that we want to. For my kid’s it’s Fall out Boy etc. and I’m into Led Zep, Stones etc. We certainly are NOT fanatics and we make our own choices, right or wrong. What I observed in those clips scares me. Does any one remember Jim Jones? Think about it. This is not what Christ taught.

Oh Jena, even if I did believe in hell, there’s nothing that says we go there for speaking our minds, so lighten up. What exactly is ridiculous about sharing ideas and opinions? In fact, your insults and threats only inspire me to share further.

A-religious

sure some maybe trading one addiction for another but lets look at this from a simple and practical Point of view, isn’t it better for a young girl to be practicing good morals and believing in herself than to be giving drunken BJS and getting high, I never said these kids were”having compulsive sex and snorting more drugs than humans should do in a lifetime because they didn’t get jesus” the point is this is a much better way of life for them( jesus has little to do with my point). these kids will mature and grow up and eventually think for them selves some day and make an educated choice on what they believe but until then this is a good place for some kids. As far as terrorist attacks are concerned, your nutz, members of the kkk may have commited terrorist acts but they were doing so because they were racist not because they were christian, using that as an example is silly, oh was timothy mcveigh christrian , ok then theres another one, no thats insane.

and as far as looking back at history , Christianity has evolved very much since the crusades, I can assure we won’t be seeing another one of those any time soon. I don’t think these kids will ever be trained to wield a sword and destroy non believers.

the next time you date a hot girl wouldn’t you feel a little better about your self and her knowing that she was a good girl and that she hadn’t been part of the high school basketball teams work out routine because these days it seems younger ladies are getting a little more adventurous and im not making some schovinistc statement, because the fact is theres a difference between women and men especially when it comes to that, it may not be fair but ladies are a little bit more delicate and they should be treated more delicatly. I don’t know how old you are but I just left high school a few years ago and i still remember some pretty interesting stories and im sure some of those ladies involved are going through some serious issues right now thats all im saying.

Thank God for Luce! I live in conservative South Dakota and still have to watch kids get destroyed by society. I’ve watched the media write it’s own ticket to cash in on sex, drugs and alcohol at any cost to our youth and I, like Luce, am fed up. I cancelled my cable television service because I was sick and tired of the media using that channel to pump their trash into my house for my kids to see.
Bottom line: this guy’s got a great message, especially when you compare it to all the other messages out there. I sure hope he makes it up my way really soon.

superstition. period.

anyone suppose Luce is making money from this – and a lot? i do.

nothing new under the sun, kiddies. read history, and see the real light.

what a horrible article. I personally have attended these events with young people for 10 years. I intentionally go because I love young people and believe they need a place where they can enjoy great music, see other young people who are choosing to love God in the midst of seduction all around, and because I believe it what Teen Mania is doing. Shame on you for the way you portray such an honorable ministry. Guess you do have an opinion or an axe to grind since you don’t have faith~

The best coverage I’ve ever seen was the ABC spot. This article is garbage, biased and wrong

“This article is garbage, biased and wrong…”

In other words, a normal RS article.

It is amazing to me how commonly ignorance and arrogance fit together. These Xtian idiots dismiss science, logic and reason while embracing a theology that reeks of militarism and fascist domination.

This is nothing but the use of music, performance and public gathering to brainwash teenagers into becoming the front line of the Xtian Dominionist movement.

Drunken Master,
What you, and science fail at is faith. You and science go to no end to try and prove the “truth”. Your truth. And therein lies the problem. You are creating your own truth regardless of what truth really is. You see, it doesn’t matter what you or me or Darwin or anyone else thinks the truth is, the truth is simply the truth.
And the truth is that a man actually (and there are many, many witnesses) rose from the dead. That man told us how to get to heaven etc.
Now, to illustrate how solid the truth is, I’ve come up with a little experiment for you to conduct, so you too can see how unchanging and inflexible a truth is.
The next time you are out cruising around I want you to drive twice as fast as all those stupid lying speed limit signs say you can. You see they are all lies and the truth is that you can legally go twice as fast. When the cop pulls you over just tell him what I’ve told you, they are all lies. I’m sure he’ll say to you “Oh, well if you believe the speed limit is really twice what the signs say, I won’t bother you, I’d hate to dispell your truth. Have a nice day.”

Was anybody else scared from the reading the article and watching those clips? I sure as hell was. This whole BattleCry thing is beginning to sound a lot like what we learned in high school history class of a certain somebody from 70 years ago.

“I like your Christ, I do not like you Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.- Gandhi

With all due respect Al, the difference between ‘witnesses’ and truth is about as wide as the Atlantic. There’s lots of witnesses to UFO’s, does that mean you take their side and believe in aliens too? But there’s witnesses!! You can’t refute!!

See how silly that is?

You accept that a guy rose from the dead about 2k years ago because you have faith in it, and that’s cool. Doesn’t make it truth though. Truths are permanent and eternal and provable. Unfortunately there’s nothing proven about Jesus being Christ, or even existing for that matter. But still you have faith, and while I’d never try to undermine your faith, it’s insulting that you’d come in here and suggest it has anything to do with truth.

This story was absolutely terrifying. I can’t believe people think that the solution to islamist fascism is christian fascism. where has tolerance gone? where has “turn the other cheek” gone? Christ would be ASHAMED at the intolerance, blind faith and bigotry that these people practice. Luce doesn’t even believe the crap he’s screaming about, he just likes seeing millions of dollars pile into his bank account every year at the expense of ignorant and impressionable teenagers. This is a social tragedy on a massive scale.

Al:
Oooooh. Somebody rose from the dead. Yeah, that never happened in mythology before. Nifty. This Jesus guy must be something special. And Mary’s immaculate conception. Asexual reproduction had been covered in myth as well…even Christians after the death of Christ blamed un-explained (as in, embarassing) pregnancies as rape by an incubus. This is your “truth”? All you have is a myth cribbed from other myths.
Your comments of “truth” are tired old circular logic I’ve seen in Christian circles time and time again. Christ is god. Why? Christ rose. How do you know? Because the Bible says so. Why is the Bible true? Because it is about Christ, and Christ is god. I know…doesn’t stand up to any sort of logical argument, and even faith arguments do not stand up to: WHY CHRISTIANITY? Every religion is equally valid, ultimately, and every religion is equally false. Often I hear that this is a lack of faith. Or Faith (often see it with capital). The point often miss: my faith in what I believe is just as (or more) strong and unshakable as your own. Your heart tells you Christ is god to the core of your being. Mine tells me Christ is no more interesting than the other religious beings in history and none of them hold a grain of truth to them. We’re not missing anything, and there are no afterlife consequences of this. Constantly repeating consequences that we don’t believe in really only lowers yourself in our eyes. Only a true coward professes a belief they do not feel just to escape a theoretical S&M underworld after death.

I mean jeez Al: trying to prove a metaphysical argument with any kind of “real world’ argument is pointless. Maybe it can be done, but you’re just not up to it.

wow…you call Luce angry? what you are you so ticked off about? why shouldn’t some kids gather for a weekend of fun without all the garbage they see every day?

only an idiot would think that anyone could make $ on this deal. think about it..even if every seat in s.f. werre filled, it still wouldn’t pay for the park and all the extras to do this event there. what ignorance!

Oh there’s big profit in this. The events. The merchandise. If there weren’t Luce wouldn’t have the leftovers to produce PSAs.

Now I’m NOT saying Luce is in for the money or power. As far as I know he could be completely legit, though I personally doubt it. But to deny the profitability is crazy.

Luce = Lucifer

It is sad really. i was brought up in a culture like this 20 years ago and it pains me to see that so many kids are getting sucked in to these things still. Sure the secular culture can mess kids up but this is such brainwashing it makes me sick. Jesus said turn the other cheek. i don’t remember him saying anything about attacking anyone.

as a youth pastor of a couple years now, i have to say i’m already sick of the marketing used for events such as this. the events are ridiculously expensive and rely heavily on tools of emotional manipulation, guilt, and peer pressure to see kids make uninformed decisions. it would be interesting to see the statistics in the future as to how many of those who attend these events and make “pledges, commitments, decisions, etc.” actually keep those promises. i believe the current data says these events do not have lasting impact on students’ lives…

Like I said, don’t give it another thought. Surely your truth is the right one.

I’m sorry, but the last thing this society needs is an “attacking church”. It is scary to see fundamentalist religion focusing on youth and pushing militant messages. Ron Luce’s war against “secularism” is in reality an attack on the seperation of church and state in this country. Make no mistake, this is a battle for the character of our country.

C.Co,
So why do I care what O’Reilly has to say? I was really trying to forget that his lying, boorish, hypocritical ass exists. Are you going to throw Coulter at us next?

As a former Baptist pastor in Texas, we used to call the GOP, God’s Own Party. This right winged movement is the boot camp for greater associations with groups like Black Water. Black Water is headed by a fundamentalist christian that has a private army which has been hired by the Bush administration to fight in Iraq. These kids will keep their bibles, language, and anger, and just add guns to take the “fight” to the rest of America’s enemies. This is very disturbing!

“A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument.”

Well all…I work in that so called ’sweat shop’, as I’ve seen TM referred to. However, I can’t say that I consider it as such.
I have been reading all the comments from both sides -and find it very interesting. I must say, I wouldn’t call Teen Mania/the Honor Academy/Battle Cry a cult by any means. And though I’m involved, I wouldn’t even consider saying to you all, ‘REPENT OR YOU WILL BE CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE’.
I WOULD ask that you all wouldn’t base judgement of this organization solely off of a Rolling Stone’s article. Although everyone is entitled to their own opinion – I would encourage the testing of all media. Read all articles, watch the coverage, etc, but form your own opinion. Many articles are going to be single-sided, and many people will have an agenda. Neither side is perfect – nor should they be expected to be … but I would encourage everyone to think for themselves and come to your OWN unbiased opinion – whatever it may be.
Just a thought.

Just a thought,
So you are involved? How do you feel about separation of church and state? I don’t think that most militant christians present a threat of violence. The religion has evolved beyond that stage (I hope). The threat they represent is a kind of majority opinion that represses other views. Their antagonism towards others who don’t share their views is well documented. The problem is that when you think you have a direct line to God, you are willing to take on anything–science, the justice system, public policy–to ensure that your perception of God’s will is carried out. These outfits purposely train and This with no historical context, no understanding is a recipe for oppression. We live in a secular society. If you want it to be a theocracy, go found your own country. Don’t ruin ours.

“Just a thought”
Although I don’t agree with how your religious sect operates, I respect what you have to say about doing your own research instead of relying on clearly biased sources. I seriously doubt that anything other than the most extremist evangelicals are that bad. Extremist Muslims are 1000 times worse; call me crazy.

This article is titled “Holy War”, is that not a huge oxymoron?? Since when is religion’s purpose to promote violence, judgment, and hate. I read the article very thoroughly and only found things like “enemies such as Communists, queers, feminists, and Muslims.” This sounds like another threat to the diverse world, by saying another I mean that this is not the first time. Who hated and persecuted Homosexuals, gypsies, and Jews. Thats right Hitler, this Ron Luce guy sounds like another demagogue who can rally up the masses and really incite that mob mentality. Maybe some of us should actually listen in our History classes and apply it to the present like it is meant. Why is everyone ignoring the truth?, this guy is another radical, everyone says terrorists are so bad, especially those from the middle east and even now we are engaged in a great war against those evil beings, but can we not look in the mirror and see our own faults. Should Bush begin a war against BattleCry because they are pretty much terrorists to?!! Of course not because we are the great Christians who know everything and are never wrong and can just go to other countries and destroys whatever the hell we want.

Hey everyone on both sides of the debate who have been giving opinons on the BattleCry movement. If you want an excellent book to read, check out “The Battle For God” by Karen Armstrong. It is one of the most penetrating, readable, and prescient accounts to date of the rise of the fundamentalist movements in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Its interesting that the three monotheistic religions create the most radicals who use military terms of violence to enlist followers…. humm?

Dewrock69: I don’t think the people that don’t follow this propaganda enjoy being called “misbreeds” Ask yourself if thats what Jesus would call the rest of the world that did not believe in him. I think Bob Marley said it best….

“Judge not
Before you judge yourself.
Judge not
If you’re not ready for judgement.

The road of life is rocky
And you may stumble too.
So while you talk about me,
someone else is judging you.”

The google link below is broken. Please search

video.google.com
“Jesus Freaks Documentary”

You’ll be watching Christian Rockers in no time!

aetheist,
“Since when is religion’s purpose to promote violence, judgment, and hate”

You ever hear of the reformation, the Spanish inquisition, the crusades? Religion has promoted more violence and hate than most other influences combined (of course it almost always comes down to power, land, or money anyway).

Not that i entirely agree with all the tactics that Mr. Luce may use, the video shorts paint a different picture than the article. Jeff Sharlet writes form a deprecating point of view right off the bat, and at no time points out any positive aspects. Very one sided article…The fact of the matter, Christian, Muslim, Jewish etc…Kids are being pumped full of garbage and hopelessness every day…and to the genius below “Atheist” umm….read the article again…the whole part you quoted “enemies such as Communists, queers, feminists, and Muslims” that was never quoted in the text….MANY OF YOU…YES YOU need to take a class in persuasive writing….ALOT OF YOU seem to be the type of people who “oh i read it here, so it must be true”…the author of this article has an obvious agenda….well stop here

To “wake up”:

The quote you say is not in the article is in the second paragraph. Why do you lie and hope people will take your word and not read the article?

These people are no worse than the far left religous kooks – Greenpeace, Peta, the Church of Global Warming – these groups control the dumbacrat party, these people have little influence over the Republican party. You are for once right Tin, it is about power, land, and money…and the left wants to tell people what they can do with their land and money.

this is a dangerous organization. it has been PROVEN that safe sex is healthy, and abstinance is very unhealthy. yes, people shouldnt rush into sex until they’re mature enough, but at a certain point it becomes unhealthy. waiting until a man in a robe says you can have sex because a big man in the sky that created the earth 8000 years ago thinks sex is icky, is just plain stupid. no alchahol? thats cool, thats a personal life choice. i embrace that myself, i dont drink, because its not good for your brain, and because i dont enjoy the taste. no drugs? well, i dont do any drugs, but marijuana, the one thats singled out the the most is in no way a drug. to be a drug is has to have a real, negative side. the american thoraxcic (sp) society (that basically means the american lung society) said that even with heavy pot smoking for long periods of time, that pot does not increase your risk for lung cancer of emphyzema. two recent major university studies have proven that even after 15-20 years of heavy pot smoking, it has no permanent effect on the brain. theres also no addictive substances in it, and one would have to smoke twice their body wieght in an hour to overdose on it. therefore, not smoking pot is a personal choice, but no doing it because its sinful is silly. other drugs are much worse, and those are worth totally avoiding.

oh, and one more thing. sex makes your hair smoother, your brain faster and smarter, your heart healthier, your body thinner, and your teeth whiter. in recent medical studies, weed has been shown to help those with heart disease, and shown to help blood flow, liver problems, general hearth health, pain reduction, and treat some rare paralyzing diseases.

Cap, once again you wantonly display your ignorance (and I thought I was paranoid) There is no “church of global warming”. Peta is a fringe group not necessarily associated with the left. Greenpeace is a legitimate guardian of the ocean habitat (someone needs to). None of these groups wants to eliminate the separation of church and state. None of these groups control the Democratic party or even the Green party. Both parties are controlled mostly by moneyed corporate interests. Reality sucks, huh?

Tin you are paranoid, and obviously not very good at understanding sarcasm. I am well aware that there is no church of global warming, even though it is a religion to the left wing kooks(the gorenads). PETA is not associated with the left? Yeah I am sure PETA freaks reqularly vote Republican (fat chance in hell). As for Greenpeace, get real please. They are a left wing political organization, event the founder left because they became too far left and too political. Bet you both gave large sums of money to the dumbacrat party and not a cent to the Republican party.

Cap,
We went through this before, are you going to make me dig this out again. Why don’t you just go dig through the old posts. The leader of Greenpeace did leave and afterwards broke with his old organization on the subject of Nuclear Energy. That’s it. There’s no more to that story.

Wow–this is disturbing. Obiviously RS’s take is that this is whacked out. If I take everything that RS says as truth, well I guess I think it’s pretty whacked out myself. It makes me want to attend a BC event and see for myself. Wonder how many would actually do that? And how many, after reading this article, could do that and remain objective?Interesting. If I go, I’ll find that to be challenging.

I will say that that I am a Christian and if this is true, well, it’s a sad thing really. Many Muslims will say this about Muslim extremists: “Don’t look at them and then ignorantly brand us all as “extreme” or “radical.” I would hope that applies to all faiths that are misrepresented in this way.

Dear Reader (8 blogs down),
Are we comming to a state as a nation where average citizens can not understand how to read and write, as well as extract information from simple text? I never said that it was not stated, rather, that it was not QUOTED. Your homework assignment; go back over the article, reference the blog and you will see your error….good day

I’m a fifteen year old from West Virginia and have attended Battle Cry/Aquire the Fire for the past 3 years and I have to say that what you say is not true. Sure, you may quote things, but you turn things around that make everything sound horrible. I am a christian and have gone on those missionary travels. We do NOT worship Ron Luce. If you have EVER been to a church service, do people bow down to the preacher … no. Ron Luce, to me, is only a preacher. We are all there to worship God. Not Ron. Sure, Ron may a good guy. But he most certainly is not god. It upsets me that you feel this way about Battle Cry. I hope that you do not influence other people to feel this way, because if you do, they are getting the WRONG impression. Battle Cry is a place for Christian teens to get together and talk about taking back a generation that has been claimed by the world. I mean, think about it. If you had a son or daughter, would you like to find out that they cut themselves, or have sex, or find out that your daughter is pregnant. No. I’m sure you don’t. I know I wouldn’t.

I used to cut myself and I tried to commit suicide many times. But, luckily, I never did succeed. I mean, think about it. The video that talks about the percentages and stuff is all true. Alot of us have had abortions and have been pregnant. In fact, our school has 6 people right now that are pregnant. 4 of which are freshman. I think that something is wrong right now, especially after the attacks and stuff that just happened yesterday at Virginia Tech. Look what the world has come to. Do you really want to add to this tragedy?

I’m praying for this magazine. Whether they may want it or not.

Believer,
I respect what you are saying. I believe that religion can be a wonderful thing. But I’ll repeat my question to ‘just a thought’ below. Do you believe in the seperation of church and state as guaranteed in the constitution? Don’t allow the terminology used by Ron and his followers declaring “secular society” to be the source of all ills. This is fiction.

As I said before: “The problem is that when you think you have a direct line to God, you are willing to take on anything–science, the justice system, public policy–to ensure that your perception of God’s will is carried out. … with no historical context, no understanding [you have] a recipe for oppression. We live in a secular society. If you want it to be a theocracy, go found your own country.”

I can’t believe that RS published such a biased article. They openly compared Christian teenagers to radical fundamentalists that are part of a militia group equal to Al-Quaeda. I respect that everyone has thier own beliefs, but does that mean that RS has to go all out and publish a hate article about some Christian teenagers and a pastor? We’re not trying to force our beliefs on ANYONE. We’re not saying “you have to be like us”, we’re saying “this is who we are!”
And what was all that crud about us being a hate-group?? We may be against MTV and some other secular companies, but we’re not the only ones! There’s MANY atheists who don’t agree with the crud MTV is shoving down teens throats. RS needs to get a grip and quit hating the people that more than likely fund a lot of thier sales! (not that that’s a good thing)

I have taken the time to read each comment on this page which shows an overwhelming response against Ron Luce, Battle Cry, and Christianity to an extent. It seems to me that these statements are unfair and based on a false perception that this group is attempting to brainwash innocent teens and take over this country.

I agree that this article portrays Luce as an “etremist” and this would be accurate. He is an extremist…

but I believe to get a fair assesment of this man and his beliefs (the things that make him extreme) you have to truly look at what his intentions are.

Teen pregnancy, self mutilation, suicide, drug use and abortion (whether you agree with it or not) are some of the fastest growing dangers our Generation faces.

This man’s intentions whether you agree with him or not are to bring hope to this generation. to give them an answer to their problems…yet all we can do is crucify him and liken him to an al quaida extremist..this is not right

I believe:
of all the comments posted on this page i believe that was by far the most well-written and convincing “arguments” of what a christian truly is.

For all those who are bashing “christianity, Luce, or battle cry…
and for those who claim to follow christ yet condemn others to hell…

take a minute to read what was written by this 15 year old, without agenda and without intollerance, you might learn something about these so called “extremist christians”

Ron Luce is cashing in on the fears and insecurities of a generation of American teenagers. And, in the process, is helping influence their ideology towards a war-loving, muslim-hating “Christian” nation. I don’t see anything remotely Christian about Luce.

i cant remember which of the founding fathers said it, but i believe that he was correct when he said that the rights of men are infinte as long as they dont infringe on the rights of others. As long as this remains a sort of “jihad” ,which in actuality means the internal struggle between good and evil, im fine with that but if it ever turns into an all out holy war….The fact that this is going on doesn’t scare me as much as the fact that these kids are so sheltered. I dont care who u are, if u refuse to believe something just because someone else says it true then u have been “brain washed” i think everyone needs to learn to think for themselves. That includes everyone from the teens that are there to the people criticizing this form of religious expression.

P.S. im a fifteen year old as well that has grown up in a God-fearing household

if kids cant keep it in their pants, stay away from sharp objects, and think for themselves…then they get what they deserve…really if u think about it its not that hard to follow all those things

I saw the article in Rollingstone by Jeff Sharlet and I believe he badly misinterpreted the meaning and purpose behind these BattleCry events. I’ve been to three of them myself when I was younger and had my life radically changed however it wasn’t because of the event. If anything it only boosted my faith in God. Ron isn’t doing this to cause teens to become robots for God. On the contrary; God created us to be unique and live for him. Our culture tries to get us what to wear, what to eat, what to like and if you don’t like those things and act like other kids in school then your just a whussy, kum-ba-ya christian. I think the point Ron is trying to get across is that the pop culture of today is the number one influence of teens today and most Christian teens are very passive when it comes to standing up for there faith and morals. He’s telling them that they ought not be passive but rather stand up for what they believe in.

Compare the BattleCry theology to the book of Galations — is faith not enough, must you revert back to the Law or “standards”. Compare BattleCry methods to the charactersistics of cults found in books on cults in any Christian bookstore (or just Google ‘identify cult’). Compare the Ron Luce approach and that of the early church in the Book of Acts to the same cultural issues and pressures. “Test these things to see if they are true,”

Dear everybody, please understand that media has the power to twist anything into anything else. My brother works in the BattleCry events, I have read books by Ron Luce, seen interviews with him. This article has definately not portrayed the event or speakers right. If you had been there, you would have had a much different impression of everything that went on. Please do not accept prejudice and such as truth because it isn’t. Find out more (not from reviews of it either) about it and then come to a conclusion.
God bless as He will.

WOW! NO FREAKIN WAY! We have to stop this stuff! The next thing you know kids will begin to adopt a moral lifestyle, have a greater sense of self-worth and purpose… Amazing how far into the abyss this country has fallen when outspoken Christians are seen as terrorists. Get a grip on reality folks…it’s not Jesus or “militant” Christians that have caused the moral decay in America.

Behold the Youth of the Nation! Another fresh crop of sexually repressed and woefully misinformed kids destined to grow up dismissing extensive scientific research because it does not fit their preconcieved perception of the world. Ladies and Gentelmen George W. Bush’s America! Instead of teaching our children how to make moral desicions based on evidence, tolerance and reason we simply take mainstream trends and rebrand them with the name Jesus. Problem solved! Just as He intended it. Onward Good Christian Soldiers!

Isn’t it ironic that the same people that are trying to “save” the human race are in need of saving? This is a vicious cycle, history repeating itself, and the sad part is that it doesn’t seem like any of these kids, or the supporting radicals seem to have been educated at all on accounts of comparable historical events. Please refer to November 18, 1978.

Hey – have any of you folks trusting ‘Rolling Stone’s’ comments ever done anything more than read this article about this event? I have a few things I would do differently BUT the things Ron Luce quotes aren’t off base. Interesting and sad that some would trust a mag that has a history of ridiculing Followers of Jesus Christ over our family – other Disciples of Jesus (Christians).

adding to my last post, since RS must not like essays, I want to start out with this Tom-guy below my first post.
Ahem….
Tom,
I’m sorry, but did you just ADVERTISE for Luce?! I must thank you for that, because while I was writing my post a frown grew on my face. Your ridiculously hypocritical marketing technique drew a guffaw and a smile from me.
Thank you for the pick-me-up,
Chris.

Now that that is aside…

I would like to say this in Christianity’s defense, though. It has evolved in its approach to gaining more followers since the crusades and the Inquisition. The basic principle of ‘agree with us or be hated’ still exists in the devout community today, with the exception of the hangings, human bonfires, and other violence towards the rest of us.

I used t say the world would be a better place without religion, since the main conflicts lately have been because of it (Northern Ireland, the genocides, Iraq, etc.) . But I must admit, religion brings comfort to most people in difficult times. So, as a comforting shoulder to cry on, religion seems to be good at its job. That does not excuse the countless acts of ignorance, arrogance, hatred, and bloodshed that have ravaged this earth for many generations.
Due to the fact that I have grown tired of being ill-prepared for an attack against my beliefs, I’ll just go ahead and say this and finish:
The first time the Bible was translated into English, the translators didn’t know much about….crap, brain fart. Was it Aramaic? Arabic? Hebrew? >.

oops, entirely my bad. he’s not ‘Tom-guy’ he’s Ted Haggard.Where did I get Tom from…? I dunno….ok, I’ll hush up and let someone else have their turn.

Thanks for taking the time to discuss the story. There’s not much I can add other than to point out that it’s Luce, not me, who makes the Al Qaeda comparison, describing those of us who work in the secular media as “virtue terrorists.” But the defenders of BattleCry are right about one thing — if you’re not persuaded by my story (but do read the whole thing; this is just a short excerpt online), check it out yourself. BattleCry/ATF/Teen Mania demands more scrutiny.

If religionists couldn’t get ahold of children when they’re young and impressionable, religion would die off in a generation or two.

No it wouldn’t. People are always looking for a higher power to somehow validate their existence. Even if all existing faiths on Earth somehow vanished, people in their search for purpose would invent all new things to believe in.

blah!:

One of the main reasons why the big major religions persist in an age where superstitions and irrational belief systemes like religion have been completely debunked and discredited, is because those who profit and gain power from religion are allowed access to children. Deny access to children, and the major religions will whither and eventually die.

You’re right in the sense that people come up with new religions all the time – just look at mormonism and scientology – but look at how marginalized the newer religions are compared to the major ones. There will always be snakeoil salesmen… the important thing is to keep them away from our children and the weak amongst us.

True enough, but you can’t exactly cut off all fanatical access to children. The fanatics teach their fanaticism to their children and so on.

And worse yet is that it’s not the “big” people in high places that are polluting most of the kids. Sure, they help, but it’s really the blind believers that do the most harm. You know, the devout Christian(/Islam/Jewish) parents that insist that little Timmy never miss a single Sunday service, and so on and so forth. Those are the kids that fall for such perverse ideas as BattleCry. Short of a very large bonfire, they can’t be eliminated. (Note for the literal-minded: sarcasm.)

Retarder all of it is,Another “religios cult” who uses the name of GOD! to manipulate people,i hope this continews i hope they keep this up and realise they dreams so this will eventually end up like JONESTOWN and see a kool-aid booth,keep beliving that just couse u say god is in something makes it good.God is what u make of it,i dont care about god or bolive in it and im happy,you dont need a reason of existance ither you were born u live your life at the fullest and you DIE! this is ur life and its ending one minute at a time,famous words if you ask me.Enjoy life as it is,dont waste it doing this kind of idiotic things.

Anytime music is used to support a cause it’s kinda cheezy, but still- I think these kids seem happy to be together celebrating their religion. More power to ‘em. Have fun.

I see so many of the people, that have typed there thoughts, spoke there mind. All I can think about, is the fact that you have been hurt, by someone in the church, a “friend”, a parent, someone… The funny thing is, most people dont look at the “imperfect person”, blame goes to Jesus (too God). I am sorry, something I learned a long time ago was “do not look to people or a person for something to count on”, dont care who it is they WILL let you down. I know what you are going to say… BUT, Jesus Loves You, you just dont have a choice in the matter.

It is quite ironic that so many of these comments have accused Christianity of being judgemental, hateful, and without merit. Yet the comments attacking Christianity have been quite judgemental, hateful, and without merit. Meanwhile, the comments posted in defense of Christianity have been respectful, loving, and thoughtful. Oh the irony!

Without something to fight for, there is no battle. Our generation is in need of divine intervention. In reponse to the “in need of saving” comment: we all know that no one living on this earth is perfect. We’re all in need of saving, which only comes from Jesus. Have you ever heard someone call themselves “saved” when they accept Jesus into their lives. We’re dubbed with that name because we truly are saved by God’s grace. Call us hypocrites, call us whatever you want, but we’re trying to destroy Satan’s hold he has on this world. I went to Battlecry last year, and there definitely was a war mentality, but what else do we do when there’s destruction and evil consuming the earth? We have no choice but to take action.

I honestly can’t believe my eyes and ears. This is too much for me to take. Here we have thousands of kids doing the works not of God himself, but of the private agenda of a certain Ron Luce. A read the article in Rolling Stone, and before that I had never even heard of this movement. Read the following excerpt from the article, in which, the writer sits with two young girls who are caught in the heat of the experience:
“Then she adds a kicker: “Repent.” I ask her what she means. She giggles as if I’m teasing her. “Ron Luce said so!”

These children don’t even know what they’re fighting for! There’s your proof! This is a cult, no doubt about it. Luce persuades these kids to come out to his shows by providing them exclusive access to their favorite bands. He’s using these conventions to brainwash an entire generation. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if they try to take over the world in twenty years.

Christianity NEEDS TO GO!

This Battle Cry nonsense is just another example of the poisonous, mind-warping epidemic of a dangerous memeplex.

Religion…especi ally the “fayth of Jaysus” is outdated, irrelevant, and entirely detrimental to this society.

Christianity needs to go? People don’t seem to have any degrees of separation between fanatacism and faith. There are 2 billion Christians, I doubt it’s going to fade away. I like that video saying 1/3 of us have been drunk.

Jesus DRANK!

Wow! Tres Harsh, ya’ll…..Are you all serious with everything your saying? WOW…..
Ok, so I interned with Ron and Teen Mania for two years and was a part of the team that made this event happen. It is nothing like its being portrayed. Nothing at all like that. There is no ‘private agenda’ or anything of the sort….He’s not some Hitler-wannabe. And he’s not recruiting an army for himself. I came to know Christ at one of these events 10 years ago, and I have to tell you it hasn’t made me hateful or anything of the sort. Actually, if I didn’t know Christ the way I do I would be more hateful towards people and more close minded.

I guess I don’t know what to say to all this….Wow….Most of you guys REALLY don’t know the first thing about Teen Mania, BattleCry, Ron, and what its all about….

this whole christian rock thing… am I the only one that sees this as oxymoronic?

If these crazies want a battle, let’s give them one!

After reading this and watching the video, I came away feeling this group, or movement, is fairly tame.
I didn’t hear one comment about forcing anyone else to follow their beliefs. I didn’t hear anything hateful. So what is the problem again?
I’m not personally a god guy, but if they are happy, I’m happy for them.
They don’t even seem like they will very offended when I raise a beer to toast their success.

Mk, so to all of you jerks that are like “christianity needs to Die!” I tell you to go sit in a hole because you obviously havent done your homewok on this issue. As some one who is active in the church, and her youth group and helps PLAN YOUTH EVENTS(!!!) im here to set a few things straight… the group portrayed in the article is a SMALL portion of those that would consider themselves “christian youth.” They are so small in fact that i hadnt even heard of them until this article! Not only that, but i would like to point out that most christians are not like that. I, for example, was raised to believe that we are saved by GRACE not by shunning the rest of the world. now, that may be what Mr. Luce considers, how did he put it… “namby-pamby, khum-ba-yah, thumb-sucking” christianity, but its ideals like these that are the basis of most protestant faiths. Not all, but most. and even after we eliminate those groups that believe in being saved by grace, we are still left with the catholics, who although they believe in being saved through works, they still dont think that we should cry, “HEATHEN!!!” and then shun the rest of the world. So, next time you have a derogatory remark about a christian being crazy, or psyco, please, specify which sect of christianity it is, because not all of us believe in creating small armies of angy little pre teens. Thus endeth todays theology lesson, and the closing statement in the defense of the rest of us…

1 tim 4:12- Dont let anyone look down on you because you are young but set an example for the believers, in speech, faith, love, life, and purity.

I dont really appreciate those of you who are calling christian youth a “cult” and all of you are acting like total buttheads.

There is nothing wrong in celebrating your faith. I have always have a problem when someone approach me or anyone else and tell me what I believe in is wrong.(Usually, they don’t know what my faith is.) For the people posting on this blog defending Luce and his organization, the biggest problem is that he is preaching a pro-active approach to Christianity. Which is we must get into everybody’s face and tell them they are wrong. Instead of accepting Christ’s teachings and lessons and live a just and moral life.

Ironically, I think that they are performing a pagan ritual when they write down what they don’t want in their lives and throw it away?

I hope the kids who do attend these events are there for the music and celebrating their faith not listening to the militant messages that this organization pumping out.

wait a minute…

this article is ridiculously wrong! i cant get over it! ive been to ATF…and the Battlecry messages are a metaphor about loving everyone…about reaching out to ALL people. not an actual war of violence or hate. never once does ron luce say anything about hate, that is not what we Christians are about. we are about hating the sin and loving the sinner. this article is ridiculously biased and inaccurate. my friend at the honor academy is appaulled. this just shows how corrupt the world is, and it proves how legit luce is when he says this world does need a battle to rid of the sin and hate in it.

Watch the documentary “Jesus Camp”. Scary Scary. At the very least they are trying to make a giant intolerant voting block, which will demand the government run the country like islamo-facists.

How much money is this guy making? I would be very surprised if its all going to charity.
History has pretty clearly showed us that every time the church gets uppity something bad happens.

The Dark Ages, the crusades…fill in the blank.

Wow, Ron Luce – brainwashing a whole generation? What about MTV? What about public high schools? What about movies, music, games, why are they so innocent in the minds of those who attack Christians? We Christians do not all believe alike, but we true followers of Jesus do have a common thread – love and peace.

What a dumb video, it really makes no sense at all.

First off, religion seems to be the root of all evil in this world. It probably kills more people than all of the other crap mentioned in this video.

Second, pregnancy, suicide and drugs have nothing to do with religion. Whether you’re religious or not they will still happen.

It seems to me like both sides of the arguments posted here represent the polar extremes which many people in this country look at in disgust. Christianity is about loving the sinner hating the sin, however, at times I too believe these fundamentalist groups lose focus on what Jesus would have actually preached and instead take on the “psychotic Christian” mentality so many of you write about with contempt. To the same effect, the ignorance of the other extreme “God is dead, Christianity must go, it is killing this country,” is just as bad if not worse. It is outlandish comments like these and uneducated illogical arguments, FROM BOTH SIDES, based on what others tell you and not what you find for yourself, that create such a stir, such a political agenda, such an all out war! When is everyone going to realize that these are simply extremes of both sides, which unfortunately, represent either ideology? It is sad that today when you hear “Christian” you think of evangelical fundamentalists and when you hear “Non-Christian” you think of god-hating sex-hungry liberals. Since when have we lost the middle ground? Since when have we lost the values this country was founded on, or the values that Jesus himself wished to convey? Live in peace and love and praise life, God, country, or whatever it may be. All things in moderation, and realize these extremists do not represent that majority of America, although sadly enough they act as the poster children of each side. Can’t we all just get along?

The more we hate, the more it perpetuates

I’ve been there… through it all. It’s like a cult and R.L. is equal to God in the eyes of those kids. It’s sick and I’m ashamed to call myself a Christian if that’s what they are.

Once again the Evangelical zealots try and push their “Christianity Lite” unto the youth of this country and indeed, the world. There is but ONE Supreme God and the human family must unite in service to that God. Treating religion as some feel good exercise of youthful exuberence is a blasphemy. Evangelicals and the Charismatic movement lack the solemnity and reverence to God that the Book of Genesis -Leviticus demands. Watch the video entitled “JESUS CAMP” for an idea of how absurd the Evangelical Christians are. God is NOT anyone’s “buddy” there are NO Personal relationships with the Christ. We must SEEK God and live our lives in that quest. Rabbiting on about being “saved at five years old” and waving one’s arms about while babbling nonsense called “speaking in tongues” is not only a blasphemy but a total disgrace. I would remind these zealots that Jesus said: “NOT EVERYONE WHO SAYS UNTO ME ‘LORD, LORD’ SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.” This evangelical fanaticism is as bad as the radical Islamists and should be stamped out by any means necessary. They may call themselves Christians but in truth they are hypocrites. There IS one true Church and those who seek God will do well to find it.

I’ve attended 7 Acquire the Fire events (they are smaller Battlecry events), when I first went, I was a very hateful and angry person, I thought that Christians were very close minded and that they were “perfect”. But once I went there, at the age of 12, I found out that Christians are full of love, and, I’ve been reading all of the articles so far, most people seem to TOTALLY miss out on the whole meaning behind Luce’s Battlecry. “Battlecry”, is the Christian movement that calls for people, of all ages, to turn towards Christ and not towards ourselves. Not towards other people who don’t have the answers. This message is for the non-christians and those who oppose battlecry, “haven’t you notices how hateful non-christians are? Look at yourselves, calling us ‘idiots’ ‘fascists’ ‘ hitler wannabes’, do you see US calling you any of those names? NO, do you see us being hateful and angry? Hateful, as in condemning PEOPLE (we condemn the SIN that people do, and you may think we’re condemning the sinner, but we’re not), NO, we don’t hate anyone, we’re not angry, and we’re not afraid. The more you speak against Christianity and Battlecry and the more hateful things you say, the more I believe that Ron Luce is right. We’re living in a world with falling cultural standards, we’re believing more and more that we have the answers, and yet we’re more miserable than ever, there are more suicides than ever, the abortion genocide is raising more concern than ever, and that is by no coincidence. The Bible tells us that this will happen, and that it will only get worse. I love everyone, even those who hate me, who despise me, beat me, and why? Because I know that I am no better than they are, but that I have the answer, I have saving grace. Jesus Christ IS the ONLY way to Heaven, and speaking this is NOT blasphemy, you guys throw this term in every which direction while completely missing this great opportunity! I know that those without Christ are looking for something to fill a spiritual gap. How many times have you gone to bed at night wondering “is this all there is to life?”
The truth is: Christ is real, and He is real in my life, he’s saved my life is countless ways, and there is no argument that you can say that will ever change my mind about that.

Julie Moore felt like she was the only Christian in her whole school.

She was often mocked for her faith. Still, she felt like she could make a difference on her high school campus.

But how? Her answer came during her junior year at a Youth For Christ retreat, when a student speaker told how God had led her to start a Bible study at her public school.

Julie felt God calling her to do the same at her school, Bloomington (IN) High School North. But she was reluctant.

“At first,” says Julie, “I thought, OK, God, whatever. I don’t think I’m going to do that.”

Julie didn’t want any more ridicule at school. And she didn’t think anybody would even be interested in a Bible study.

After all, there was that English paper she’d written about obedience, telling of Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac (Genesis 22:1-18).

Julie read the paper aloud in class, explaining that “God wants us to serve him by obeying him, and even though it’s hard sometimes, God is faithful and takes care of us.”

Most of the class had put their heads down on their desks, ignoring her.

And God wanted her to start a Bible study there?

“People were already mocking me because I was a Christian,” says Julie, now a senior at Indiana University. “Starting a Bible study would just give them more opportunity to mock me. I wasn’t sure I was ready for that.”

A club is born
Still, Julie knew she needed to obey.

“I realized the Bible study was what God wanted me to do, like the Abraham and Isaac thing,” she says. “I felt like I was laying down my social status and letting God do whatever he wanted.”

Julie talked to her youth leaders and other adults, who encouraged her to go for it. She received information about starting a Christian club at school, including her legal rights.

School administrators were supportive. Several teachers offered to let the club meet in their classrooms before school.

And so “Cougars for Christ,” named after her school’s mascot, was born.

Julie spread the word that she was starting a club where students could study the Bible and learn more about God. Seventeen students showed up for the first meeting on December 1, 1995.

“I was filled with excitement and gratitude,” says Julie. “God had totally put this thing together.”

Julie challenged the students with 1 Timothy 4:12: “Don’t let any one look down on you because you are young, but set an example … ”

She encouraged them to make a difference, to not be afraid and to stand up for what they believed in. Everything went well—for a while.

The next fall, the beginning of Julie’s senior year, a photo of Cougars for Christ appeared in the yearbook. Club announcements were made over the P.A. system. The group was getting recognition—but not all of it was good.

Some students were hostile, mocking and cursing at Julie, nicknaming her “the Cougars for Christ Queen.”

Soon, blank sheets of red paper were taped up all over school. One guy told Julie with a snicker, “They’re for Cougars for Communism.”

A teacher told Julie that the communism club, which rarely met, had formed mainly to mock Cougars for Christ. Club members called Julie names, and complained that she was turning the school into a church.

That was only the beginning.

To the principal’s office
Soon, Julie was called to the office.

The principal, Dr. Sue Beerman, told Julie that Cougars for Communism had complained that Cougars for Christ had a room to meet in, announcements on the P.A. system, and a picture in the yearbook. The Cougars for Communism said they had a right to do the same things.

Dr. Beerman told Julie that she liked her group and what they were doing. But she also explained that Cougars for Communism had forced her to make some hard decisions to be fair to both clubs—while abiding by the law.

Both clubs had a legal right to meet on campus. But the principal said she wasn’t sure about their rights to use the P.A. system or have their pictures in the yearbook. Dr. Beerman said she would talk to a lawyer to get definite answers.

When she left the office, Julie was confused and discouraged. Cougars for Christ had been in the yearbook the previous year and had used the P.A. system all along, and it didn’t seem fair that those privileges might be taken away. To make matters worse, someone had smashed the windshield on her car in the school parking lot. She believes someone from Cougars for Communism did it, but admits she can’t prove it.

Why is this happening? Julie wondered. I thought the Bible study was a good thing.

She felt let down. But she wouldn’t give up.

She went home and reviewed a packet of legal information that her youth leader had given her. She typed up a constitution to better define Cougars for Christ and its philosophy.

Then she went back to the principal’s office to further plead her case.

Dr. Beerman, meanwhile, had talked to the school superintendent and an attorney, and had some answers for Julie. She explained that the law—specifically, the Equal Access Act—gives extracurricular clubs the right to meet on public school grounds, regardless of their beliefs. But the law does not guarantee extracurricular clubs can use school facilities—like the P.A. system—to promote themselves. Nor does the law say they have “equal access” to yearbooks, as do school-sponsored clubs.

So the school made these decisions:

• Both clubs could continue meeting on school grounds.

• All clubs—whether school-sponsored or not—had to get a faculty member’s signature to make announcements on the P.A. system.

• Only “official” school clubs could be pictured in the yearbook. “Official” clubs are school-sponsored and curriculum-related. “Unofficial” clubs, like Cougars for Christ and Cougars for Communism, are neither school-sponsored nor curriculum-related, and therefore could not be in the yearbook.

Encouraging support
The struggle—with administration, and with Cougars for Communism and their taunts—took its toll. Attendance at Cougars for Christ meetings dropped to about five.

Still, Julie found much-needed support. A family friend, a lawyer, offered legal help if needed. Many people prayed for her. And even though Cougars for Christ was not connected to Youth for Christ, area YFC leaders prayed for Julie and sent an encouraging card. One youth leader told Julie she was “a bright light in a dark world.”

Julie says, “It was encouraging to hear that kind of reinforcement.”

Cougars for Christ continued to meet, and Cougars for Communism continued to mock them. Julie downplayed the conflict, telling her group not to treat anyone from Cougars for Communism badly. The Bible study group prayed about the situation, and kept making P.A. announcements and handing out fliers.

Meanwhile, Cougars for Communism couldn’t find a teacher to sign off on their announcements, so they never got to use the P.A. system.

The conflict between the clubs subsided. Soon, the Cougars for Christ attendance was back up to 17. Cougars for Communism stopped meeting, and Julie never heard from them again.

Still going strong
Julie spent time mentoring several younger girls during those early days of Cougars for Christ, and one of them, Claire Pontius, ended up leading the group as a senior before graduating in June.

Claire says the group is still going strong today.

Almost 75 people showed up for See You at the Pole last year, and about 15 to 20 regularly now attend the club’s meetings.

Claire, a freshman when the club started, says the club’s rough start turned out to be a good thing: “Paul said to rejoice when you’re persecuted because when you’re being persecuted you’re doing something right.”

Claire says the club has “helped Christians come out into the open. It gives students a way to stand up for what they believe, to say openly ‘Yes, I am a Christian. I believe in God.’”

Claire also says Julie’s example of perseverance was inspiring: “I know how hard Julie worked to get it started, and how hard it was for her to go through all that nonsense.”

Julie is just thrilled to see that all the hard work — the result of her obedience to God’s leading—has left its mark.

“I’ve learned to keep going, no matter what,” Julie says. “You can make a difference.”

and to what Mike wrote-

thank you for showing some of the Decent things that Christians have done (such as helping the poor in foreign lands).

I just heard of this movement, but while it could be benign, the fact that the founder is a trained psychologist who has chosen as his target the most impressionable and confused age group raises concerns. If you are emotionally lost, looking for a direction you are more likely to be a teenager. My question is where does this movement lead, an emotionally stable person capable of independent thought, or Waco.

You consider something as important as Acquire the Fire (or Battlecry, which, this year it’s going to be called Recreate), on the same level as Muslim extremists? Lol, you are REALLY off the margin. The whole “Battlecry” name basically symbolizes that there is a battle going on in the LIVES of people all over the world, that the battle is for our minds and our souls, NOT against other people, there is a BIG difference. Teens and young adults are saying “We don’t want to do things your way anymore! Let’s do things the way of Christ”, what’s so bad about that? Young adults just want to live their lives spiritually instead of doing what the world wants.
The Bible says that we will live in the world but we will not be OF the world, so when you see teens and young adults coming together to worship Christ, you should be glad for them, for us! Because we have found a way that is so much more promising than that of just doing things the way of the world, being led by a blind man… it just doesn’t make any sense.
You should attend an event, and go with an open mind, don’t go and be like “I’m going to hate this”, be “maybe I’m wrong about this, maybe there’s something supernatural going on here!”, and if not, then please don’t try to get in our way, because we have a right to excersize our religion, and if Acquire the Fire is the way that people find out about Christ instead of going to church, then so be it!
Think about it. Most people nowadays are into heavy music, they like crowds, they need a REASON to go to church, so most people don’t. But when they see something exciting happening in the name of Christ, they get excited and want to go, they hear the Word, they worship, they see some amazing bands, and they watch dramas that they can apply to their own lives, to give them fuel to go out into the world and MAKE A DIFFERENCE, instead of just leaving and not being changed at all.
Battlecry is not just an emotional thing, true, emotion does play into it, because a lot of people are in a lot of pain, but they also see that there is a better way to live, that they can be happy, that they can have a relationship with Christ and live a fulfilling life that has purpose.
What are you afraid of? Why are you afraid of this? Don’t answer on here, because this is between you and God. What do you need to do to accept Christ? Maybe you don’t believe any of this, maybe you want to live in ignorance, to live in a world full of pain and simply accept that there isn’t anything else out there. That’s your choice, but we are making ours, and you don’t see us calling you an idiot for not following Christ, you don’t see us making fun of you, or comparing you to some awful group of people.
We’re more open minded than you are, because we love and accept you no matter what faith you choose.

Don’t understand Battle Cry? Don’t uderstand why a group of young people can stand for something moral? It is a little foreign to this world in the present. But that will all change. Seek the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Seek my God and you will find Him. God has high standards. Those standards don’t save us; they can’t. Faith in Jesus Christ does. Following the precepts of our all-knowing God brings about good health, long life, and true happiness. The awesome love of Christ is what makes these people (and many others around the world) cry out for this generation. We don’t want to offend anyone, but we can not be silent. The world is longing for the true peace that only God (Jesus) can give. Bring it on, Holy Spirit.

Don’t understand Battle Cry? Don’t uderstand why a group of young people can stand for something moral? It is a little foreign to this world in the present. But that will all change. Seek the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. Seek my God and you will find Him. God has high standards. Those standards don’t save us; they can’t. Faith in Jesus Christ does. Following the precepts of our all-knowing God brings about good health, long life, and true happiness. The awesome love of Christ is what makes these people (and many others around the world) cry out for this generation. We don’t want to offend anyone, but we can not be silent. The world is longing for the true peace that only God (Jesus) can give. Bring it on, Holy Spirit.

I had to click on the last video to see what kind of “intolerance” or “cult” you guys’ say that is being promoted by Ron Luce.He sounds like he cares for people and the girl has a totally optimistic outlook. The only war I can hear them waging is against evil. It’s such an amazing contrast; that is, hearing the inspiring words Ron and the girl bring to the table…and the obscure redundant puke posts you people use to try and bring them down. Newsflash: here’s what Jesus has to say about your worldly words of wit >> “Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.”
Matt 5:11

and yet another pied piper, eh? well,though i am atheist i was raised by strict catholic parents & educated in parochial schools i NEVER want to go back THERE again! i made up mind by age 10 that religionist were non-negotiating obscurants, persecuters of opposing viewpoints and,generally,hypocritical.in other words: self-righteous killjoys always hyping the negative. like kids in general these crusaders are trying the battle on for size. if it fits, all power to em, i say. however, i get a bad feeling just listening to anad watching that mr militant luce. he’s too mr goody glib-shoes. frankly, i don’t trust him- he comes off a “teeny molester” .

Haha…just by reading all the articles here you can clearly see that people who are AGAINST “Battlecry” are really those who are FULL of HATE..

It’s sad that they would be so easily duped into confusing the good feelings and benefits of religious belief with the hateful and hypocritical doctrine of Battle Cry, and disgusting that Ron Luce would take advantage of the vulnerability and impressionability of teenagers and children as he has…anyone with half an understanding of the God they profess to worship would see that the toxic message this group is sending is more sinful than all of the “evil” they are fighting combined. Battle Cry and organizations like it need to stop using religion as an excuse to harbor hatred and intolerence of others.

Christianity is all about one’s personal relationship/journey to God. One person’s journey to God may not be the same as the others, and you know what, yeah spreading the Word of God… that’s fine… but when you begin to try to push your religion on people, critisize and segregate people who may think differently, and even worse ENDOCTRINATE ONE’S CHILDREN TO THINK THIS WAY…. it is absurd. Your relationship with God will always be a personal one, the journey to God will always be a personal one… there is such a thing as spreading the word of God and a completely different act of brainwashing and endoctrinating the youth. I feel Battlecry is guilty of both of these actions, and the fact that they actively pursue the latter, drowns out much of the good that they may be doing.

Christianity is all about one’s personal relationship/journey to God. One person’s journey to God may not be the same as the others, and you know what, yeah spreading the Word of God… that’s fine… but when you begin to try to push your religion on people, critisize and segregate people who may think differently, and even worse ENDOCTRINATE ONE’S CHILDREN TO THINK THIS WAY…. it is absurd. Your relationship with God will always be a personal one, the journey to God will always be a personal one… there is such a thing as spreading the word of God and a completely different act of brainwashing and endoctrinating the youth. I feel Battlecry is guilty of both of these actions, and the fact that they actively pursue the latter, drowns out much of the good that they may be doing.

Mr. Luce should be forewarned that if his “Attacking Church” shows up at my doorstep I’ll happily put a bullit in his brain

i just hate the concept of giving your life (not literally meaning death) for the glory of another, however on Christianity’s behalf I must say that the only proof against god and the bible is that there is no proof in the first place, you can’t claim something to be true without proof but you cannot deny something without proof either

“Mr. Luce should be forewarned that if his “Attacking Church” shows up at my doorstep I’ll happily put a bullit in his brain”

Is that a message of love or of hate? You accuse Christians of being hateful, yet you make a death threat. BTW, death threats aren’t anything new, that’s something he faces on a daily basis. What are you afraid of? You MUST know you’re doing something wrong, because you don’t want to admit to it.

Mike, rant all you want but you are no different from any other fervent follower of any religion parroting the “reasons” why your faith is right and anywhere else is wrong. If I went to Yemen, your equivalent would be a devout Muslim blah-blahing about how everyone needs to bow to Mecca and the whole world needs to be under the yoke of Shariah law. If I went to India, your counterpart would be a Hindu raving about how awesome worshipping Shiva is, although Hindus are thankfully less aggressive proselytizers than Muslims or Christians.
Yes Mike, America HAS gotten pathetic, though for the complete opposite reasons than the one you listed. Yes, American teenagers are in a crisis. Nearly 50% of American high school kids cannot find England, and in some cases, China, on a world map. English literacy rates pathetically low compared to countries where English isn’t even the official language. Yet the lack of mandatory Bible study classes and prayers in public schools is pinpointed by the Christian Right as being the cause of the problem. People constantly regurgitate the phrase that America was meant to be a “Christian nation” when a simple reading of Thomas Paine’s the Rights of Man or Common Sense(two of the most influential documents of the American Revolution) would suggest otherwise. 22% of the population claims to be certain Jesus will save the day sometime in the next 50 years, with another 22% claiming he “probably” will. This is 44% of the population who practically welcomes Armageddon. A staggering 68% of Americans also want the bogus and embarrassing pseudo-science of creationism(also known as unIntelligent Design) taught in schools, whereas 44% want it taught EXCLUSIVELY. This is a huge portion of the so-called greatest nation on Earth who REFUSE to give any credence to scientifically established facts. Conservative Christians literally act like children when saying things like “climate change isn’t happening” and “evolution isn’t scientific. we are not primates” while conveniently IGNORING the overwhelming amounts of evidence.In the 21st Century, the last vestiges of the Englightenment’s influences in America appear to be ebbing away at the worst possible time.
So where does these leave the rest of the world? Well, in the greater developed/Western world, evolution was accepted long ago and those who promote bogus creation myths are relegated to a small fringe of loonies. Ever wondered why church groups aren’t demanding creationism be taught in schools in Switzerland or Austria Mike? Contrary to the garbage statistics Ron Luce and Battlecry claim, lack of “morals” does not necessarily result in Sodom and Gomorrah. The most atheistic nations such as Iceland, Finland, Norway and Japan have staggeringly low teen pregnancy, STD and overall crime rates. People like Ron Luce, Pat Robertson and not-so-dearly-departed Jerry Falwell are doing everything in their power to collectively drag this country back 50 years.
And if you claim to be a devout Christian, why do you approve of Battlecry’s methods? Does not the militancy of their stance go somewhat against “turn the other cheek”? Battlecry sure makes a lot of money, what do they do with it? Where are the Battlecry soup kitchens for the homeless? Where were the Battlecry charity donations to the orphaned children of Iraq, or the refugees of New Orleans? All of that money seems to be going to spectacularly idiotic arena rock concerts with pyrotechnics and horrible bands that are little more than empty pep rallies that do little in the way of “shaping culture”
You’re right Mike, America is screwed up in a lot of ways. And if we become a theocracy, we will be screwed in the worst possible way.

What can be so horrible about teenagers taking an outrageous stand saying they are not going to do drugs, have abortions, premarital sexual relationships and so on. How can anyone speak against something that is helping our teenagers and furthermore the future of this country! Who cares whether they are Christian, Buddist, Muslims, whatever, they are clearly making a real stand to change this country by doing what is moral and right! If you have a problem with that then you should really check within yourselves to see just how “good” you think you really are. There is a huge lack in this world and especially in the United States of America concerning a fear of God. Those of you who believe there in evolution are stupid! Look at how precious this earth was made, how intricate we were formed and you can easily see there is something bigger then a collision behind the creation of this planet. So if this is so then have you ever thought that being here is not about you? Maybe we were put here to have a relationship with the God who created us? People want to blame God for there problems…the problems they have obviously gotten themselves into. Quit trying to blame others and lets start taking responsiblity for our own actions! As far as religon goes you can say what you want, believe what you want but there is one true fact..Buddah, Mohammad or any other God except Jesus Christ has died and risen from the dead. You can say there is no proof until you are blue in the face but there is proof. One way of knowing the true God is knowing that it is okay to put a Buddah in the middle of a city, it’s okay to have a religon like Kabalah but if you ever speak up and take a stand for Christ and Christianity then there is obiviously outraged people. Why is this, because Jesus Christ is the one true God!!! People just don’t want to admit that because then they would have to change and live there lives for the better and in the selfish world that we live in that is just too hard for so many people

i am a teen who has gone to battlecry and i would like if any of you who are against it would hear me out. First of all im not brainwashed or a cult member so plz dont accuse me of it. But most importantly because ive been to this event i know what it is really like and how people act there.
I can be honest in saying that i dont agree with the entire function. (for example i think that people should have the right to marry who the wish) which is one example of how i still have my own views so im not brainwashed.

also the article talked about only the battle phrases that Ron used and not the other things. He wasnt always using angry words and he wasnt the only speaker there.

also to me battlecrys not an organization to build an army its an orginization to save young ppl. and not only in the metephorical sense. many teens go to this event and stop cutting,drugs,unproected sex, and drinking and driving. Also many teens that had contemplated suicide change there minds. Why try to shut down an orginization that stops a teen from killing themselves.

I needed to write that b/c reading some of the comments honestly made me sick b/c a lot of you dont understand how it changes and saves lives.

stop thinking about the battle tactics and branding for a second and think about the millions of teens that its actually helped..not brainwashed, helped.

I think it rediculous what you are saying. All you are doing is working for the DEVIL. Jesus dosen’t get pi****. How could you even say that? Every thing happens for a reason. I have ben to battle cry and this generation is going to hell if someone dosen’t do something about it. Battle cry is NOT trying to scare kids and we are not brainwashed. I have been there several times and I could feel God’s presence. He was thee and he loved what was happening. What they are trying to show us is the reality. Jesus is coming soon and we need to ready. It is SO stupid for us just to stand around and act like nothing is happening. We need to be ready. The real CHRISTians are trying to take a stand and lead these people out of hell. So why are you trying to brainwash all of these people. Read the bible and get right with God. I’m only thirteen and I know that it is the very BEST for you to find out what this whole thing is about. God cares and loves for you.

…and Jesus never existed; he’s a playwright’s invention, the purpose of which is to tell morality tales and present ancient Egyptian theological concepts that predated Saul of Tarsus’ ministry by thousands of years. Check out jesusneverexisted.com

TRUST ME, FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, RON LUCE AND TEEN MANIA MINISTRIES ARE CRAZY.

Hmn…where do I even start? Well I guess I’ll start with all the attempts to discredit those who support Teen Mania Ministries on the basis of supposed mental incapability. You know, I really don’t even need an argument here, because even if all those statements about impressionable youths, psychologically damaged teens, and sociologically ulterior motivated kids were true, the bottom line is that if a man (Mr. Ron Luce) can create an organization/campaign (Battlecry/Aquire the Fire) that can effect a positive change with individuals’ lives, what else matters? The drug abusers are quitting drug use, the same for the alcohol abusers. The cutters are stopping, as are the smokers. Those involved in deviant lifestyles are correcting their behaviors. These issues are real for these teens, but many of them are getting real help, for the first time. They’d been to psychiatrists, rehab, etc. but to no avail, yet now, they are making real change. How? Though he may have been a psychiatrist, a man by himself can’t accomplish this, as he has no significant skill above and beyond any other doctor. Is it not possible that through these events, and this man’s ministry, that people could come to know the one true God, and therefore experience his miraculous healing, which has been documented many times before? I think it is the only logical conclusion, that God was the answer to their problems.

So how can Ron Luce’s ministry be anything other than legit, and godly, especially in the eyes of Christians? Knowing that God is good, that’s why he’d heal people, and if God is good, he wouldn’t dwell in the presence of evil. So if we establish this, that these things are occurring at these events, and it couldn’t be man, and has to be God, that means that God is with and supports Teen Mania Ministries.

You could even leave God, Jesus, and Christianity out of the equation completely, and still you have a campaign that cries out for moral decency within the media, which has a more than significant impact on young lives. We all know how bad and corrupt the world is now, so I don’t need to display any more statistics. So why challenge the data, really common sense, as to how bad things are? That’s the first step Ron Luce wants to accomplish, to wake people from their ignorance of plain truth, so that maybe they’ll be motivated to take action, the second step, which is the only lofty goal that the movement is about.

Now being Christian in nature, any reasonable person should expect them to behave like the way Christians should, according to the Bible. It tells us that we (as I’m a Christian myself) are to go unto the world and minister to everyone, so while you can claim they are pushing their religion, they are actually just doing what they believe they are supposed to do. So called Christians that do not do this, who believe in keeping their religion to themselves aren’t obeying the Word of God, which they claim they believe in, so if anyone’s a hypocrite it’s them. As for everyone else, I don’t know what to tell you, the so called other religions that don’t do this, well the same would apply to them, either their religion doesn’t tell them to do it, or if it does and they don’t do it, then they are hypocrites. Really even those other religions that don’t do this do other things, frankly that I believe are much worse, like the Muslims, for instance. “Kill all infedels (non Muslims)” “America’s the Big Satan!” Let me ask you, comparing someone pushing their religion on you through words/debate, is it worse than someone telling you that they’ll kill you for not believing as they do? Just a thought…

I was involved with Teen Mania for 6 years of my life (15-21). Since then, I have spent many years re-programming my brain. TM had me feeling guilty about everything I didn’t do right according to their standards, which they claim are directly from God. I wont go into detail, but I am at a much happier and healthier place in my life, and ironically, have an urgent desire to counsel other former fundamentalists who are making the transition from christian to non-christian. its a wonderful fulfilling transition, but a bit painful because of how much your identity gets wrapped up in TM or other organizations that provide such a strong sense of community and purpose. I wouldn’t say TM is evil, but at this point in my life, they certainly seem ignorant and foolish to me.

as if I expected Rolling Stone to present this issue in an unbiased manner…you’re kidding, right?

We all have our own opinions and views, but in the end all that will stand is facts, based on truth, that have withstood time.

we must be carefull that we don’t overlook truth in exchanged for satifying ourselves for “the moment”.

Teen Mania has taken on the challenge to preserve a biblical conservative view.

There is plenty of room for more conservatives in our country!

By the way, I’m set on attending the Honor Academy (South) in Garden Valley, TX for August 2010. I’ve seen the videos on and read the website, as well as looked over the information packets, but if there are any current, graduate, or past interns who wouldn’t mind talking about their experiences, I’d like to hear about them from a first person’s perspective. Note that I’m being serious and objective here, out of my own eager anticipation for the internship…

I love it! That is way cool man! The steps weren’t that complicated too, which is great.

Ok…Teen mania. According to their tax reports(view them at guidestar.com) they took in over $35,000,000 dollars in 2007. Thats a lot of moola for anybody. The kids at honor academy pay 700 a month to work for this group. This is to pay their room and board. They cannot get milk to drink for lunch or dinner. They sleep like 8 or 10 to a room…packed in like sardines. They fast one day a week for god…Can you say lets reduce the food budget by 14%? How does the cold showers bring you closer to god? How many poor inner city kids get to attend the extreme camps for free, on luces dime? And don’t even let me get started on the brainwashing known as esoal!!!!

Read up on “indoctrination” before you start saying that battlecry doesnt brain wash their followers…

the lives changed for the better by teen mania’s ministry speak volumes for how God is using teen mania. first hand accounts come in all the time of how young people are given hope, start a new future, and find purpose and meaning for their lives when they find Jesus at teen mania events. teens give up drugs, give up alcohol, and see huge positive changes in their lives after atfs. i am an alumni of the honor academy and have gone to many atf’s. the accounts of many people getting help to attend atfs, summer camps, and mission trips are endless – teen mania cares about the teens of the usa and each person who is reading this. the money is not really the issue, think – how much does it cost to rent the RCA Dome or Ford Field for a weekend? How much do you pay for rent, utilities and food a month?
Go, listen to the message at an aft, sit through an evening at an aft u will know it is for the best for our young people. the premarital sex, drugs, violence, and anger preached by current pop culture is killing our young people. the so called battle is not a physical fight, it is calling young people to live for God, to live above the scum that is destroying their lives and for them to give hope and purpose to others around them. we all want hope and purpose – God loves us and made us that way, he wants to give it to us. that is the “battle”, its a word to describe the fight inside all of us to give up what is not good for us to take hold of what we were made for, God’s love, purpose and hope.

Ok, “sicandtiredofit”

I don’t know where you get your sources. but You are completely wrong on almost everything you posted.

I am an intern.
Teen Mania holds youth events in 34 cities to hundreds of thousands of youth. of course they are going to bring in millions of dollars! but that money isn’t being pocketed! most of it goes to renting the stadiums, paying bands etc….
Yes, we pay to be here as an intern- but it is totally worth it! the money does go towards food and board but also to the classes- the life transforming weekend events and just the whole program that has changed my and many others lives so positively and given us the atmosphere set up to allow tremendous growth and opportunity to grow closer to God.

I have three roommates! not ten. That statement totally lost all your credibility to judge Teen Mania.

and, why would we need milk served in the Cafe for lunch and dinner. it is served with breakfast. If someone really wants it that bad during another meal time they can buy it.

We do not fast every week. We corporately fast every other week for 9 months out of the year.
Which does not have anything to do with saving money. It is because it is written in the Bible to pray and fast both personally and corporately.
So, we as a ministry take the time to do it. trying to be doers of the word not just passive hearers.

And to your last Remark: ESOAL
Emotionally Stretching Opportunity of A Lifetime.

We are not even going through teachings during ESOAL, so how can it be brainwashing???

It is is an opportunity to stretch ourselves emotionally. It really taught me to learn to take control of my emotions and not letting them run me. which is very biblical.

I am sorry, but you are very uninformed about Teen Mania and the tremendous fruit it is producing as a Ministry.

I honestly dont know what to think about this. I think it is good that kids are being empowered not to drink or do drugs or cause harm to anyone, but the way that this is being done is scary. My friends have been to battlecry, and it is just as scary as it seems. I am a Unitarian Universalist, technically “christian”, but i dont believe in God and dont believe that anyone should be forced to believe anything. Yes, the media is f*cked up, and brainwashing kids, but so is this! if you want to rage a war against the media, do it in a way that can reach ALL teenagers, not just the christian ones. i think that that is what Jesus really would have wanted.

I was a Teen Mania intern in 2003… yes it is a cult. yes, it brainwashes people through diet, mandetory fasting, odd rituals, and lack of sleep. I left because of all of this. I am Pagan. To the kids at HA this will mean that I have “backslidden” If you don’t know what that means, it’s because you don’t speak their language… they realy have one of their own.

They are very SUPER Christian… it is dangerous, and – although some good does come out of it – the place needs to be shut down.

I had 5 roommates in a very small room, we had 2 triple bunk beds and a freezer, because I was a vegan.

We had forced rituals and exercise after late night “worship sessions”. We were urged to vote republican. We were told to ask questions, but when someone asked anything too difficult, they were told to expect an e-mail. ( I got several of these emails that told me to stop asking questions)

We were forced to do a weekend of silents for soul searching, but it was “guided”.

We were forced to develop a tribe of pagans and have other members find our tribes in the back 40 so that they could “reach us for Jesus”.

We worked 40 – 60 hours a week (jobs that would have easily paid $500 a week), yet paid $700 a month to have the privledge of horrible food (if you were vegitarian – you had to buy your own), over-crowded dorms, and working for them.

No Television – unless they had it on in the lunch hall

No music that was not Christian

No books that were not approved

No romantic relationships

No touching members of the opposite sex for longer that 2 seconds

Severe Dress Codes…

No “course” language…

The list goes on and on…

and… speaking of “ESOAL” – If one chose not to participate, they were chastised by the other participants.

It is most definately a cult.

I am glad I got out and went through years of therapy to get my head back to normal. I am still working on it.

If anyone from Teen Mania HA does not believe it, look up 2002-2003 Sonshine Doty… I was there. I know what I am saying.

I met Sonnie a few days after she left teen mania. I walked in and she gave me the deer in the headlight look and seemed to be about ready to run away. I admit, I looked like a freak. First off I am huge (over 6 feet and around 240 lobs at the time), I have long hair, piercings, a lot of black, huge boots. I am a member of the goth subculture and it freaked her out. The scary thing is so is Sonnie and she has been for years before she went to Teen Mania. She was wearing as much black as me, but she was still scared because she had just spent months at Teen Mania, were during her time they banned the “gothic look”. I have asked her about her initial reaction to me a couple of time over the past 6 years, and she said it was because of her time at teen mania. Teen Mania follows all of the guide lines to make a cult. Limit outside media to approved sources, check. Limit diet to high protein in order to make you more susceptible to suggestion, check. Force guided meditations/quiet times, check. Coerce members to a uniform way of thinking and expression, check. These are all of the tricks organizations all around the world use for indoctrination. Teen Mania and Honor Academy should set off every warning bell in a free thinking person’s mind. This is not mainstream Christianity that they are teaching there, this is a militant fundamentalist form Christianity that is more terrifying in what it could do to my freedoms than any Islamic terrorist could ever be.
Now in interests of full disclosure. I am a Celtic Re-constructionist Pagan. I have been a pagan for 12 years. I am not heavily involved with the pagan community where I live, but I know a lot of them. I have no problems with Christianity, it is a religion that I deeply respect just not one I can follow. One of my closest friends recently converted from a Pagan religion to Christianity, and once I learned that he was doing it for the right reasons (at first I thought he was converting for a girl) I supported him in his transition. I have met a lot of Sonnie’s friends from Teen Mania, a lot of these people are people I deeply respect and hold very dear; many of these people attended or were in our wedding. (Both of us are pagans, but we had a fairly secular religion.) I, also, had nothing directly to do with Sonnie’s conversion to a pagan faith. The most I did was let her barrow a book when she asked for one, I refuse to push my religion upon anybody. I would have still fallen in love with her if she had remained a Christian, her religion did not matter to me. I know everyone is going to have differing opinions about this man and this organization, mine is solely based upon what I have seen my wife go through in the 6 years that I have known her, and the stories that she has shared with me.

I would like to propose a thought in regards christians.

First of all, I would like to say that just because someone says that they are christian, doens’t mean that they really are. People who do this hurt the witness of true christians because people see them & say “I never want to be like that!” A real christian should be recognized by their actions, not their words.

2nd– A real christian is NOT a perfect person. They are simply someone who has asked to be forgiven for the mistakes (sins) they have made & is trying everyday to become more like Jesus (loving everyone & showing it with realistic actions that help others.) (The greatest commandement is this: Love your neighbor as yourself.) This person WILL make mistakes. They will still sin & they will still hurt others. This doesn’t make them a hypocrite. This makes them human.

3rd: If you are a christian, please remember that people are watching EVERYTHING you do. We should live as ambassadors who show the love of God. It is your responsibility to LIVE what you TALK! Imagine how you would feel if someone said they represented you, but then did everything opposite of what you would do–& really hurt others in the process ( and the person they chose to blame was YOU…not the person who actually hurt them, b/c it was done in “your” name.)

4th- There are 3 major stages in a christian’s life: a baby (a new convert), a young man (learning to walk the talk) & parenthood (mentoring others as they grow.) Depending on the stage of their life you will get very different reactions from a christian. This doesn’t mean they aren’t one…it just means they are making mistakes & (hopefully) using them to grow & learn.

Last–I would like to sincerely apologize to those of you who have been hurt by christians, or people proclaiming to be. Jesus longs for you to know the real Him. Please don’t judge God by the mistakes of people..He is much greater than that.

I hope this helps you view christians in a different light — not all of us are radical fundmentalists & crazy hypocrites.

Evangelical mass hysteria, typical of Protestants! They claim this intimate relationship with Jesus yet not 1 in 1,000 know the meaning of Matthew 15:24. JESUS is the JEWISH Messiah, if the Jews accept him or not. No non-Jew can claim salvation through Jesus. Of course the Protestants love to make it up as they go. This fervor is foolish rhetoric with NO scriptural basis or validity. Don’t wave the Bible about to impress people with your self-proclaimed salvation..READ IT and you will see that you are following a FALSE Christ, which Jesus himself warned you about in Matthew 24:24-25.