Hear, hear. It is long since the time when we should have left Iraq.

The oddest Taibbi slur to date: sloe-eyed. What is that? The only definition I can only find is the fruit of the Blackthorn shrub. Is this to imply that these folks are hopped up on thus-derived sloe gin?

Cheers to Taibbi for emphasizing the role of “good” people like Friedman and Powell in facilitating this disaster. My best-remembered Friedman quote came during one of his mush-mouthed stints on TV, during which he was asked, shortly before the invasion, if he favored the invasion. “I’m for the invasion if it can be done perfectly,” this idiot-oracle spouted. Nobody asked, and apparently Friedman didn’t ask himself, “Well, how likely is THAT?”

i think its funny how not even a week ago Rolling Stone put up a “Sound track for Saddam’s Hanging”……talk about saving their own! Down with corporal punishment!

Not mentioned in this article is the fact that the kurds are pissed that saddam didnt go on trial for gassing one of their villages in 1983 while shaking hands with rummy

amazing article. this should be required reading in middle schools around the country, especially in Texas, Georgia, Florida (not Miami), and everywhere else in the absent-minded States.

Friedman is a ‘tookus’ and deserves all the criticism that he gets.

a “surge of troops?” hahahahahahaahahahahahaha haaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha

Yes there have been countless mistakes in the handling of the war in Iraq. No one of any intelligence is doubting that. But at the same time going into Iraq had to be done and should have been done by the United Nations since it was their accords from the end of the first Gulf War that Saddam was in clear violation of. That was never goign to happen since our wonderful allies, the French, Germans and Russians were lining their pockets with money and oil contracts from Saddam. So no I’m not too concerend about what those countries think about us and the war. As for Saddam swinging, that is something that should be celebrated. A first class shithead who murdered hundreds of thousands of people met a fate he deserved in a very timely manner. Maybe this country could take a lesson from the Iraqi courts and we wouldn’t have animals living on death row for 20+ years before they finally get their just punishment. And Matt, your elitist attitude toward the middle class of the Midwest is not going to win you any converts.

you making a joke….now thats a joke……ass

you dont deserve a tookus…..you deserve an ass whupping…….you disgusting wild animal

Good to have you back Matt, your last few columns sucked. Hey Nate, open your eyes dingleberry. The solution he presented was pretty clear: get the fuck out. What was yours? “Proactivity?” Man, that’s genius. Did your dad teach you that word?

im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian im a lesbian

The collective mind of Rolling Stone’s readers, as I can be considered, would favor on the whole the intent and messaging of Taibbi’s article. Our leadership’s clear misunderstanding and appreciation of the Muslim culture and value set has damned us from the very beginning of this debacle, and predisposed us to years forward of an endless money pit of getting ourselves out of someplace we should have never been.

What is unfortunate is that the credibility of the magazine is damaged with a spew-infused rant, picking on the physical characteristics of a generally centrist columnist for the left leaning New York Times. I believe if you would ask Hillary and John Edwards 5 years ago what they thought about the invasion, it generally would have involved the comments of “a good idea” and “ultimate success.”

Hindsight is 20/20, and Taibbi benefits from criticizing from that viewpoint. The constant frustration I have with the Rolling Stone editorial page is that it is often retroactive and finger pointing prone to those lacking our viewpoints on the Right. With the relative dismantlment of the Republican leadership and obvious shortcomings of the ousted neo-cons, we are now at a point of great opportunity to turn the corner and lead the nation in a different direction. Instead of pointing at the obvious failures of the past administration, and cowardly pointing at a 4 year old observation from an editorial, lets propose and uplift those with a plan to get out, move on, and refocus on our pursuit of happiness at home.

Also, as a member of the “sloe-eyed” midwestern, suburban set – I say shame on you. We read the magazine too Matt. Even if I do suffer from the ungodly demise of being born in a fly-over state. Shockingly, some of us have our heads on straight eventhough we weren’t blessed enough to hang with the coastal aristocracy and damn Bush from the high towers of New York and LA.

another taibbi column that would have made a fine couple paragraphs but instead prattles on about friedman getting wedgies and getting killed for briging casserole.
It’s a shame that a guy who can obviously write smart chooses to undermine himself and his message with that crap, just to lengthen the article.

matt taibbi is the best writer currently at rolling stone.

While I guees it’s great that Rolling Stone is taking a stand against the Bush administration, it’s hard to listen to Rolling Stone talk about such a serious subject like Saddamn Hussein’s execution when the week before, it was an excuse to make a snarky joke about making an execution playlist.

I don’t think that it was fair that Sadam Hussion got hanged because he didn’t hange anyone that were killed by him. I hope and I think that he will be the first person in heaven. and that in the day of judment the people who said that Sadam should be hanged will be in hell with the devil. GOOD LUCK

I hope that Sadam will be in heaven and that all the people who were aganist Sadam will and I wish the same day come to them so that one day they can learn thier lessions

Can this guy write a single paragraph without forcibly inserting a useless obscenity or self-concsiouly hip wise-ass remark in it? Do we need another columnist pandering to the under-30 crowd with lame stabs at irony and pop culture satire? And why attack someone for something -however ill-informed- they wrote four freaking years ago? Enough shit seems to come out Taibbi’s mouth to ensure there’s few lingering peanuts from four years ago he’d rather forget about.

One of the most amazing things about Taibbi is that he makes all of us look like morons, equally. That is some sort-of accomplishment! From the thoughtful arguments of David F and Nate B to the inaity of Bilbo Biggins and Max…the true winner must be Nietzsche, who’s had not only a sexual awakening but also some sorta post-mortem gender conversion. Way to become who you are, Nietz!

Though you sounded a little overly pissed off, I thought the point was put succintly. I agree 100%.

While I wholeheartedly agree with what you’ve said, I must point out that the amount of cursing and calling out The Man does lead me to believe that Matt Taibbi is actually a twelve-year-old typing out of his parents’ basement. But wait, he’s doing this for Rolling Stone?

“Instead of pointing at the obvious failures of the past administration, and cowardly pointing at a 4 year old observation from an editorial, lets propose and uplift those with a plan to get out, move on, and refocus on our pursuit of happiness at home.”

——————– ————

Nate B,

That would not provide the opportunity to demonize neoconservative thought and render it taboo in the American lexicon for some time. The people that supported this war need to feel EXTREMELY guilty. For A LONG FUCKING TIME. It is the way you teach a child. It is also the way you teach the idiots in this country who allowed themselves to be manipulated by war-drum, chest-beating propaganda. The fathers in the flyover states know this: they know to teach thier kids not to fuck up.

Word!

Neocons wired on Goldwater bios? Not likely. Goldwater was no neocon. The neocons actually preferred that hard-dick Democrat, Scoop Jackson. Read up on that era, Matt.

GOverall good colum, nothing really earth shatering gets said but i gather thats par for this guy’s course. I do like his presentation

Prop,
When did I say that was more important than anything else?

Matt –

You are making far too promiscuous use of “us” and “we” when describing the thought processes and activities of a few elite sociopaths, bumblers and assorted sycophants. This is something that the folks you rightfully despise at the New York Times (like court jester Friedman, for instance) are prone to doing, and like so much else about them, it is an execrable tendency.

Also, you seem to naively believe that the crowd that got us into this mess (and by ‘us’ I really do mean ‘us’), really have a strong interest in minimizing conflict or have any genuine concern for the lives that will be lost as the war continues. This is not to say that they are deliberately fucking up; only that keeping peace in Iraq is unprofitable for them and therefore the last thing on their minds.

i wish i was straight

Matt Taibbi is a disgusting wild animal

Hes right i am a disgusting wild animal

Don’t spin me because I used different terminology, Word.

-

“…lets propose and uplift those with a plan to get out, move on, and refocus on our pursuit of happiness at home.”
– Nate B

In response:

“That would not provide the opportunity to demonize neoconservative thought and render it taboo in the American lexicon for some time.”
– Word

-

Putting the effort into “demonizing the neoconservative thought” instead of “proposing and uplifting those with a plan to get out, move on, and refocus on our pursuit of happiness at home.”

You shot down Nate’s plan and epressed your own. You viewed your plan as “better” or “more important.” I’m not spinning what you said, as you clearly thought the “demonizing” route was better than Nate’s.

To clearly state my point (as I know people are looking to misconstrue me): I think that no matter what how you feel politically, moving forward and creating positive change for the country (and EVERYONE who lives in it) is most important. A side note: I wish we didn’t have a 2 party system so that could always be the most important issue.

it is really funny to hear the lemonade people crying about the swear words. And the “THERE WAS NO ALTERNATIVE” people whining that Taibbi didn’t offer an “alternative,” after the simple alternative of shutting the fuck up and continuing like Clinton had made them all rage and rage. Everyone who supported this war should go there or shut the fuck up already.

Oh, man, stop it. That line about Friedman’s mustache and the suburban book clubs made me think of a re-make of Boogie Nights…starring Tom Friedman and Co. Oh, sweet Jesus, I have to stop right there before sloe-eyed big daddy Cheney shows up.

Prop,

If you think about it you’d realize I was synthesizing both our “plans”: We move forward and “uplift” ourselves by demonizing neoconservative thought. There is a reason certain things in this world are made taboo. The type of mindset that would lead us into an unwinnable war and the manner in which the public was whipped into a war frenzy both qualify. We will all be better served in our respective pursuits of happiness by demonizing neoconservative thought and goals so that we won’t simply repeat history like dumb fucks who don’t read. It’s the most positive thing we can do for this country.

In contemplating the argument between Prop and Word, I am once again struck by the exalted place manners have taken in political matters. It seems particularly odd to me now, since it seems like in their day-to-day lives, Americans are ruder than ever: talking at and insulting each other, being chronically late, chatting through movies and plays, pushing and shoving their way onto the subway, being occasionally treacherous in their personal and professional affairs. Admittedly I live in New York, so this view may be somewhat distorted, but I don’t remember it ever being much better elsewhere. It seems an obsession with manners is almost exclusively confined to the expression of strong political opinions.

I am convinced this concern has to do mostly with three things: first, manners are easier to grapple with than facts, particularly if one is generally ignorant or makes a virtue of wishy-washiness as most Americans are and do and second, the predominance of middle to upper class white folks in public discourse, a group whose neurotic uneasiness with conflict is oddly complemented by ready indulgence of state-sponsored violence and corruption in their political idols and third, the draining of all substance from political life by elites who control both the parties and the media and for whom substance can only mean harm. Hence, we have candidates discredited for inappropriate yelling, making (unintended) slurs on America’s troops, or being generally combative in debate situations.

It is also my impression that among political animals, a preoccupation with being nice is particularly strong among middle-brow liberals, a group whose political life seems less animated by ideals or even strategy, than by vain self-regard, which is one reason they are always losing ground. Of course, this is not without its contradictions. The ones that will lecture their peers on how best to articulate opposition to the war (don’t disparage the troops or say anything remotely unpatriotic etc. etc.) become quite frothy in regard to die-hard Naderites whom they continually blame for all the ills visited upon them since the year 2000.

The bottom line is, when we are talking about the medium or mode of message conveyance, we are not talking about the message. This is a bad thing.

Factual truth is more important than manners. If you can do both, fine. But in a contest between one or the other, anyone with half a brain will choose truth. Besides, vitriol can be very compelling to people. If it’s tethered to truth, what’s the problem? Matt’s best columns are full of froth. I’ll never forget the one in the NY Press where he imagined himself kidnapping and assaulting a New York Times journalist who had written a piece on Gitmo that, like so much else in the NYT, was dishonest to the government’s advantage. The anger in Matt’s piece served two purposes: firstly, as a barometer of the moral offense committed by the journalist which was very great; and secondly, in animating the violent revenge fantasy, it made the horrors of Gitmo, as visited on Matt’s kidnapped journalist, very vivid. If it had been soft on the Times creep, it would have been less honest.

Word is quite right. Demonized thoughts are harder to have. This is not a bad thing when thoughts are genuinely demonic. If every neo-con felt so ashamed that he went out into the woods and hung himself, it would be a brighter day, particularly for the darker people of the world.

Errm…Mission Accomplished?

Can we go home now?

Matt, you make me laugh – and I’m not doing enough of that lately.

Hey guys we got Iraq wrong but we still have plenty of other countries in the middle East to try ideologies out on. Syria, Iran those places look like fun!! Lets learn from our mistakes but instead of leaving the middle east lets just change countries and start again

What kind of low-rent journalism is this? I think even an eight grader has sense enough to not resort to childish ad hominem attacks. Whatever argument you attempted to make is lost in your pointless ranting.

ur face dylan…….asswipe

Matt is a disgusting wild animal for sure. I have no doubt he can switch hands while masturbating without missing a stroke. He spews venom and even stoops so low as to make fun of a man’s outdated facial hair. He should be banned for life from the state of Iowa and never again be allowed to eat corn.
But once you get through the first few hate filled rants you realize he is right. He is right about lemons to lemonade being a prime example of the attitude embodied by this county at the start of, and throughout this mess. He is right to be an elitist in a country where Fox News is routinely digested as fact. Most of the american voters are indeed slow-eyed. I offer as evidence the election results of 2004 and the majority of posts above. As for the mustache in question, I have not seen it, but if it is anything like Matt describes it, he is right to critique it in such a harsh manner.
I do think Taibbi goes to far, portraying casseroles in such an unflattering manner. To think that a casserole could ever be used for anything other than delicious sustenance is unamerican. Fast and slow eyed alike enjoy casseroles, sometimes two, even three times a week and slander against such a versatile dish will not stand.
I think we should look past the mustache that may or may not be greasy, the disturbing imagery of shards from a casserole dish embedded in human flesh, and get past the angy tone of the piece. He should be angry. We should be angry. If you aren’t angry yet, read more.

it’s not journalism, he’s not reporting a story, it’s editorialism at best as he is opining on a subject. The subject being the complete fuck up that the execution of the iraq war is. We, those of us who can think beyond agreement with the leaders of a party, are pissed off and rightly should be. we should demand that those that ignored all the advice they were given by experts should be prosecuted and held accountable for all the waste, wasted lives, wasted money, wasted opportunities, wasted friendships and diplomacy. hang the warmongers!!

The Times brightest OpEd-ing star
Is Tommy of Friedman by far.
His Moustache of Wisdom
Glistens with jism
From George W.’s two-inch “cigar.”

Watch my balls please!

Enough blowjobs for Taibbi, we all know he’s the only real journalist in america.

The only question is, what the fuck is he still doing at Rolling Stone, an irrelevant magazine for illiterate middle-aged shitheads? Or is Jeff Koyens so powerful that Matt just can’t get a job anywhere else. In which case, come back to Russia!

It might help Matt’s argument (with which I largely agree),if he didn’t end up demonstrating just how moronically inept any American is when it comes to understanding Islam, the differences between Sunni and Shia, etcf., etc., if he didn’t completely blow it by mistaking the holiday Saddam was hanged on. It wasn’t the feast if Eid al Fitr, which comes at the end of Ramadan (which, BTW, was sometime back in the month of October, I believe) with the feast of Eid something-or-other (I’m not going to pretence expertise here when I don’t have it – you can go look this all up at Juan Cole’s blog, since he does know what he’s talking about), which happens to be a feast about forgivenness.

But thanks, Matt, for so clearly demonstrating that we all need to get the fuck out of there, since not even smart guys like you know what you’re talking about when it comes to this FUBAR mess.

Hey Dave, you’re not satanic. Just stupid.

At least the scoundrels and profiteers get something out of this besides your smug, racist self-regard.

It’s really simple: people have a right to go to heaven or hell on their own. The warring tribes of Iraq are united on one thing – they want us out. Who the fuck are you to tell them they’re wrong?

Spot on article with the exception that Eid was in like October or something.

Word
It didn’t seem like you were incorporating the 2 routes, but if you did mean that, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. However, I do feel it’s unhealthy to attempt to completely deny the though processes of groups that have different ideologies than you. Even if you don’t like Republicans or Democrats you should attempt to understand where each is coming from and find some middle ground. True knowledge of your “enemies” can lead to true knowledge about yourself.

Dave
Very interesting post. Although most people are going to strongly disagree with you (for a variety of reasons, most of them misguided), you bring up a good point. I’m glad I live in one of the few countries on Earth that actually gives a shit for the rest of the world. No matter how you feel about the current war, that’s something to take pride in.

Correction: “thought” not “though.”

Please, watch my balls!

Prop,

Would you “completely deny” the thought process of the nazis simply because they have a different ideology than you?

oh no he wouldn’t, he totally empathizes with them just as he would with Ferengy’s.

In his world, anyone who thinks different is a moron or an idiot. Tipical totalitarian, just like the neocons and the muslim extremists.

“hang the warmongers!!” .. Oh the irony..

Jed,
I don’t care if it’s journalism or editorialism, it doesn’t mean one can justifiably step outside basic principles of argumentation. Ad hominem attacks are cheap and unnecessary, more often than not they point to a weak argument.

All I’m saying is this article would hold a lot more weight to the more discerning readers out there sans the immature name calling… although I suppose Rolling Stone (and Taibbi for that matter) isn’t really catering to those, so it’s par for the course.

Word | 1/9/2007, 11:02 pm EST

Prop,

Would you “completely deny” the thought process of the nazis simply because they have a different ideology than you?

-

That’s stupid and you’re using spin as an agrument. Neither the Democratic party or Republican party are evil. We are not living in late 1930s Germany. The German people at that time had no choice in following the ideologies of Hilter because he became a dictator. You’re trying to make a connection between Republicans and Nazis, which is not even worth agruing over because it’s such a retarded thing to say. We live in a democracy where both parties have important and valuable points to make. That’s why you shouldn’t just entirely dismiss a side.

The nazi party wasn’t viewed as evil in germany either. The german people were deluded into electing him by nationalistic sentiment and a ‘charming’ manner of speaking. Unfortunately the german people refused to see him for what he was and allowed him an inch of power, of course he took a mile.
It happened to them, it can happen to us if we don’t become aware and pay attention to what is really going on behind the scenes. It would seem like the script of a sci-fi movie.
So it’s not so different or far fetched if you look at the similarities objectively instead of just ignoring them or debunking them outright because they don’t meet your standard for credibility. The similarities are astounding.
Does it seem ironic to anyone else that the pig is actually trying to make a case for political plurality? What’s next? recommend having more than two viable parties in order to have greater representation and more checks and balances?

There are an astonding more similarities between Iran and Nazi Germany than the US currently. We aren’t trying to take over the world and our motives are not racially backed. Both of which were the biggest points in Nazi Germany’s advance to WWII. Why do I have to agrue this? 95% of Americans would say the same thing (maybe only 50% of RS commentors, but a lot of them just hate America).

-

“What’s next? recommend having more than two viable parties in order to have greater representation and more checks and balances?”

-

Yeah. I’ve always advocated bipartisian movements and wish there was a multi-party system that would focus more on the common good than gaining power from your opponent. I’ve always said that, you jerk. Check my comments over the past year.

“You’re trying to make a connection between Republicans and Nazis, which is not even worth agruing over because it’s such a retarded thing to say.”

What the fuck are you talking about? I was saying certain ideologies should be taboo, you said they shouldn’t be, I brought up Nazism as an example of why they should be. At no point was the general Republican party discussed. Neocons are not the Republican party, as we saw from the elections and thier ideas led us into the fucking mess called the Iraq War. Why shouldn’t an ideology that leads us into a fucking mess called the Iraq War be taboo?

he always does that, it’s a tactic employed by the weak of mind when they don’t have a leg to stand on and they need to discredit the oponent in a debate. sort of what they are doing to barak obama over his middle name.

Fine Word. I suppose I don’t really understand the differences between what you guys view as Neocons and Republicans or Conservatives. I would just like to see varying ideologies in this country as a means of checks and balances. Ya know, so we don’t become facists? But, in all seriousness, I would like to know what the differences are between what you view as “Neocon” and “Republican”. If you could inform me on that, I’d really like to know for future reference.

And Jed. Shut up. I’m not trying to use a tatic, I’m not weak minded (you only say that because I disagree with you; there are plenty of weak minded people who agree with you, but I don’t see you insulting them, huh?), and I like Obama as a person quite a bit. You insult people because it makes you feel better about yourself, not because it’s nessacary. That’s a child-like, bully response, so cut it out if you really are an adult.

Quoting Dave:

Sarcasm aside, the problem is, we dare to enact our values on other people. We have the audacity to think that a genocidal 1,000-year-old blood feud between Sunni and Shiite in the middle of the most strategically valuable region in the globe is unacceptable. That’s why we choose to stay there and remain in the middle of two warring sides.

——————-

And there in lies the problem with the American attitude. Don’t you think that the Muslim population in the Middle East view America in exactly the same way, and that 9-11 was an example of their audacity in regarding someone like Bush running one of the “most strategically valuable region(sic) in the globe” as unacceptable? So Dave grow up and realize that American ideology isn’t the only right kind available for people around the world to choose from. Chances are you wouldn’t want someone else making that choice for you.

dear saddam hussion and i love u nature my lord friend
a ndi want to love my heart and i alwasy pray for my lord god to keep in heaven my lord frirnd

One should always be in love. That is the reason one should never marry.

a man is judged by his deeds, not by his words