I guess it would be too much to ask a journalist to actually count the wins in Rahm’s originally “targetted” races and compare to the outcome on Tuesday… facts don’t lie.

Also, when you are counting Rahms losses also factor in how he parachuted no names and even Republicans to run in districts that already had a local candidate.

Then as a journalist go back to Rahms homestate of Illinois and ask the field workers how Rahm screwed up all of the campaigns… and how he tried to save face and ego by dumping 3 million dollars into the Duckworth campaign after he had already dumped 1 million in the PRIMARY to beat Christine Celgelis who had already had her network in order from the first time she went against Hyde.

Then as a journalist ask yourself how come Rahm lost every single race in his homestate… you would think that he would at least know the local territory.

Finally, ask how Rahm “missed” John Hall????

Oh one more thing: WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO RAHM’S “FIGHTING DEMS”????….and how many of them won????

Pu-leeeze, James Carville take a nice long vacation with your lovely wife Mary Matalin. Leave Howard Dean alone so we Democrats can get some work done.

Agree with Merino. The supercilious tone suggesting “Isn’t it just delicious to watch the Dems fight” riding on stream of gossipy “he said, she said” is better replaced by some factually backed conclusions.

From what I’ve read so far, I believe those conclusions would favor Dean; but then I’m not an objective journalist, just a DailyKos reader and hence too-extreme-to-be-credible.

Dean did his job as “The DNC Hit Man” with the only job being condemn the GOP at any cost. Now the DNC and the Clintons have no further use for him.
The Clintons have never liked Dean and they do not want him opening his mouth and jeapordizing the main goal of Hillary becoming President.

There will not be unity in the democrat party until a sacrificial lamb is offered up. And said lamb is Howard Dean.

Good points by Merino. It’s very suspicious that Dean is getting so little credit for this incredible victory on Tuesday. Anyone who follows politics know that the 50-state strategy is what made it all work. Yet the Clinton cultists are still plotting at trying to force him out. Give me a break. Clintons were the worst things that ever happened to the Democratic party. So glad Howard Dean came along!

The ugly side of the democrats’ victory… internal disputes by progresses versus party loyals who just want to make themselves and their friends richer.

You’d think the latter group would eat some humble pie, but you know, they’re republicans in disguise.

well I guess that answers the question, “can I post an image link here?”

sorry folks

Carville’s definitely a jack-ass. Ford’s no Democrat, and I’m in no way saddend by his loss (even if it would’ve meant losing the Senate). “I like Football and I like girls”??? Please.

Rahm deserves more credit, I think, that a lot of these folks are not willing to give him credit for but this really was Dean’s election. I don’t even see how this is disputable.

Dean’s “50 State” strategy is what allowed us to win seats in Montana, Idaho, Indiana. It made us competitive in Arizona, Wyoming, Idaho. How would we have done so well in these states if Dean hadn’t been funneling money toward building infrastructure in those places?
I would love to see Carville, Rahm, and Ford trying to recruit volunteers a day or two before the election in ‘08 when a seat suddenly comes into play…imagaine a hick, a midwest psuedo-intellectual, and a black frat boy running around Mormon Utah or Idaho with “vote for Hillary” buttons on their jacket…sounds like a great plot for the Cohen Bros. next movie…Billy Bob, Will Ferrell and Don Cheadle could woop it up in the leads.

Wow! Yr right-on, Kevin! That’s a problem with Dems, our ’sinful lifestyles’!

You don’t need to be anti-God to believe that everyone deserves equal rights or control of their own bodies, Kev.

Dean’s actually the conservative here. He’s the one who’s carrying the party’s tradition of tolerance, equal rights and social welfare on. You and Ford are the ‘liberals’ and I think you should go back to the Republicans. They could use a little help right now and you’re just the type of fire-and-brimstone, semi-fascistic, God-fearing anti-intellectual that could help them get the vote out in ‘08.

The real reasons the Democrats are twofold:

1) this often happens in the 6th year of a two-term presidency

2) Iraq

If the Dems want the whitehouse in 08, they have to get the US out of Iraq. If the Repubs want the whitehouse, they have to get the US out of Iraq (and not run Cheney).

Bush would be wise to change his Iraq goal to “peaceful turnover of power” from “plant democracy in the Mideast.”

Dems should not be silly enough to believe that this victory was anything other than a huge protest against the Iraq. They did not win. The Republicans lost.

I seem to be leaving words out of my posts. Time to call it a day. Corrected post follows:

The real reasons the Democrats won are twofold:

1) this often happens in the 6th year of a two-term presidency

2) Iraq

If the Dems want the whitehouse in 08, they have to get the US out of Iraq. If the Repubs want the whitehouse, they have to get the US out of Iraq (and not run Cheney).

Bush would be wise to change his Iraq goal to “peaceful turnover of power” from “plant democracy in the Mideast.”

Dems should not be silly enough to believe that this victory was anything other than a huge protest against the Iraq occupation. They did not win. The Republicans lost.

Obama 08

I wanted to comment in TNR, but I did not want to pay to do so. (As a result, I did not comment.) The comments, therefore, are likely to be badly skewed in favor of Carville’s opinion.

The fact is that Rahm’s team are OLD SCHOOL, short-sighted politix. I confess that I was mobilized by Dean (and I worked much harder this time than in 2004), and I think that Dean’s 50 state strategy actually won Congress for the Dems. I am frustrated that he got no credit for it and I am tired of the Dems trying to be reactive milke toast to the Repubs.

I totally support the screamer and I really dislike the people who made Kerry cave-in and apologize for his bad joke delivery – making the Dems act as if it really had been an insult. Rahm Emanuel should be replaced IMHO, by a more IN-YOUR-FACE type. (Like Howard Dean, perhaps.)

Pran

And thousands like me. None of the beltheads understand that Howard started an avalanche of activism. That is his genius. That is his huge gift. We will not go away. We will not buy the crap they eat in DC. We will elect Jerry McNerney and others in places/races where the Dem Party wouldn’t even bother to put up a candidate. And we don’t give a fuck what the bald faced liar Carville thinks or says.

And folks, stop givin’ Tim shit for posting this piece and starting a debate (even if I just attacked Kevin, so un-debate-like of me…. )

He put it up so we could put in our two cents. The idea wasn’t for him to give us his analysis. If he wanted to do that, he would have done that.

Dean is the future of the dem party, I hope. And anyone who considers him radical left is just blinded by their own narrow ideology, whether it’s skewed to the left or right. The man had a plan and it worked.

I would like to see the dems drive one single point home over and over again, and it is this truth:

The repubs have always been and will always be the party of rich white businessmen whose sole interests are money and power over the average Joe. If the dems would start saying that every single chance they can, then the message will gradually soak in and the people will see the party for what it is, and that will be good for dems.

Carville is an ass who should go to work for his wife’s party and leave us to our own devices.

UMac,

God, I hate the trend to give jocks these abbreviated names and here I am doing it to you. Hypocrisy, thou art mine. I apologize. But I like it. As in You Go Mac.

My, you were a busy puppy last night. You’re all over the place. I chose this thread to say bravo for your body of work. Although you were a little over the top on one guy elsewhere. I cut slack for that ‘cause some of the crap posted can be infuriating. I suppose that’s the intent.

WE, everyone, need to keep repeating, “(T) he party of rich white businessmen whose sole interests are money and power over the average Joe.” I keep asking why anyone, except for the aforementioned, would be a ‘party’ to the Cons. I believe the average Republican on the street differs little from you and I in what they want out of life. Why, then, subscribe to a party whose sole goal is the consolidation of wealth and power. And if you read history, that’s been their goal since this country was founded. It was Hamilton’s plan. (Thank you Aaron, too late, however.)

It must be, as you said elsewhere, that the ‘average Joe,’ GOP style, has been convinced (brainwashed?) into believing the talking points issued by GOP leadership. To intercept the argument forthcoming that us Dems are equally guilty, I give you this thread, which points out, I believe, that Dems are the party of discourse (dissent?) and variety.

You mentioned in another post how you explain the error of their positions to our unenlightened brethren of the Right. Is there some website that enumerates, objectively, all these discrepancies? I confess, ‘mining’ the internet for each instance daunts me into submission. I have to believe one exists and hope you or another reader might provide the link.

Dean is brilliant!
I had the pleasure of meeting him before the 2004 election.
He should have been the candidate, not Kerry!

Of course Carville doesn’t like Dean! Carville WANTS Dems to lose!

I’m a democrat, but I’m also a red sox fan– which means i take no win for granted.

Thus I submit to the belief that the public voted in a democratic majority in the house and senate not because of any real affection for the democrat’s cause but for just a weariness of republicans and a need for a check on a president with a history of not getting his facts straight. I don’t think these times are any less conservative than a year ago– it’s just that the republicans made the mistake of far overstepping their boundaries.

For these reasons, I don’t give Dean credit for stragetizing the Democratic control of the house and senate– i give that honor to GWB. Furthermore, Dean has a bad habbit of running his mouth and telling a few too many kerry-jokes on the way. Although I think it would show weekness to remove him now, I do think his days are numbered– the DNC can do better.

Who wins? Howard Dean was the chairman. You go take the Bob Schrum and Kerry and From and Carville and the rest of the losers and jump in a box and debate philosophy while the rest of us win elections. The same tired old strategy lost time and again. Dean recruited anti-abortion candidates, unlike those other idiots (remember John Kerry, the hero to the losers, whose only position was unwavering support of Roe v. Wade?) Howard Dean changed the ‘04 race (just look at the footage and newspaper articles). Howard Dean follows in the footsteps of FDR and Harry Truman, and I think that’s pretty good. God forbid that democrats should take a position on an issue other than abortion.

Correction re. Carville’s e-mail, sorry.

james@carville.info

Duckworth was a Rahm candidate not a Dean candidate.

Hey Dennis, thanks. I must say that if it weren’t for you, especially, and Jed, plus several others like JackD, TFH, Cake, etc., I wouldn’t keep coming back to this forum. Well….. ok, I would probably still have fun twisting cons’ nipples on here, but reading your intelligent posts makes it that much more fulfilling.

Oh, and I spent a couple of hours going back through the last month just now and I wish I would have copied the piece where you made the prediction of what bushler would say when Rummy resigned: A great American and we’re much safer because of his great service, blah blah. HAH! It went almost word for word in real life!!!! Sweeeet.

Oh, can’t forget Word and his good works.

To think that our Democratic win on Tuesday was a result of anything other than Howard’s 50 state strategy is pure ignorance. Those of us who stood beside the candidates and worked our asses off to get them elected are mostly followers of Howard, that’s right, non other than the Deaniacs themselves. We are the ones with the fire in the belly just like Howard. Carville, Emmanuel and Schumer all need to wake up and smell the passion. So with permission, hopefully, from Roger Daultry, let me just quote “Tommy” to express how we feel about Dean,
“Listening to you, I get the music, gazing at you I feel the heat, following you, I climb a mountain. I get excitement at your feet.”

Good stuff Carol. And a BIG thank you to you and all the others who did, and hopefully will continue to do, the work.

UNCLE MAC, HOW MANY COCKS HAVE YOU EVER HAD IN YOUR MOUTH?

Let’s get real people…Give credit where credit is due….straight to the Republican party….The Dems would not have won crap had it not been for the wave of corruption the Republican’s have been riding…

Well, while we are at it, let’s thank them for acidic oceans, a huge debt to be payed off, a growing health car systerm problem, lots of seniors falling into the prescription plan doughnut hole… yes, let’s thank the republicants for fucking up so bad with their greed that the world now hates us. thanks all you Rovian Ideologues out there. Hopefully it will be another fourty years b4 you get a majority again.

Uncle mac,

Thanks, man. Shout out back you ya…

James. James…..we won dude…take a chill pill….do I sense a bit of jealosy about a HUGE Democratic win that didn’t really involve the Clintons?? You’ll get over it……but Duuuuuude…….we won…..go have a beer……or seven.

HOWARD DEAN!? is that bozo still sucking air? gosh!

Hello russian girl

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