Page four is misformatted with 3 (or so) paragraphed being repeated about 3 times in a row.

I’m spreading the word about this article though.

All I have to say is everyone wants a reciept when they buy something…so we should have a paper trail for all electronic voting machines so their mistakes can be monitored and checked. Checks and balances, checks and balances!

Having experienced the debacle that was the Cali primary here in Kern County, I know how screwed up it can be with respect to the Diebold voting machines. There is a very real threat of disenfranchising thousands of voters..on purpose.

You publish a compelling article including allegations that the Georgia election was hacked with an unauthorized patch on a memory card, and then you leave out the most important piece of information?

Does the former consultant for Diebold have a copy of the patch on memory card or disk or email or anywhere? THAT’S the smoking gun.

Thank you, Rolling Stone and JFK Jr.

Tangential Qs on absentee ballots -
What is the chain of custody for absentee ballots? Do they sit in an open box in the post office, and if so, for how long? Why is the voter’s name printed on the outside of the envelope?
How can absentee voters verify that their [unadulterated] ballots were counted? What are ‘best practices’ for handling abseentee ballots?
(Agreed, electronic voting’s a much worse threat; the paucity of info on absentee ballots is also disturbing)

how are early balloting votes counted, protected?

Why does the citizen have to prove his citizenship status? Does the government not know who is or isn’t a citizen 5 years after the attacks on the world trade center?

man, the system is totally dysfunctional and the people running the show are completely corrupt, and trying to make the system even more screwed up. Are they trying to send the country into civil war?

Can you say dissembling? ‘The voting integrity act of 2006′ id be ROTFLMAO if I wasn’t so scared.

dis‧sem‧ble –
–verb (used with object)
1. to give a false or misleading appearance to; conceal the truth or real nature of: to dissemble one’s incompetence in business.
–verb (used without object) 4. to conceal one’s true motives, thoughts, etc., by some pretense; speak or act hypocritically.
source- dictionary.com

Reports of tampering with the voting machines aren’t the reason why the machines can’t be trusted — they’re just a symptom. The larger problem is something that any computer science researcher/professional will tell you — any physically unverifiable, closed system is, by definition, untrustable to those who cannot audit the system itself (and the audit would have to be extraordinarily comprehensive to be trustable). I cannot fathom why the debate is over evidence of tampering. Whether tampering has happened before or not is irrelevant. It either has happened or will happen in the future, and that’s all that matters.

before the 2004 election I was absolutely sure that it was not even going to be a close race betweenKerry and Bush. That many people will not stand in lines that long to vote for the incumbent.The exit polls have never been that wrong before ever.absolute power blah blah blah.

Thank you RS and RFK, Jr. for doing the job that at one time investigative journalists in the Mainstream Media did. Oh how I miss those days… Liberal media my ass. More like Corporate Press.

Many wealthy and elitist people in this country have nothing but contempt for “average” people, and therefore truly detest democracy. However, a true and honest popular vote will never lead our nation to the plutocracy that these elitists desire.

So, this small group of elitists conducted a 20 year internicine campaign that began by coopting congregants of Christian fundamentalist churches to get a comitted group of followers. Then they gerrymandered districts in key states to remove opposition votes in close districts. Finally they stole enough votes in remaining close districts to gain power. Chiseling electronic machines were used in select races and that explains why exit polls in 2004 were exactly in synch with recorded votes in some races but differed wildly from what the machines showed in others. You may recall that Rove said it was because conservatives in Ohio refused to participate in the exit polls – (what garbage!)

They achieved the control that they wanted, and for six years they have looted the national treasury, sold out working people to international sweatshops, stolen bales of cash in Iraq, and cut taxes for the rich.

Maybe the Christian conservatives should wake up and notice that this administration hasn’t fought nearly as hard to advance their agenda (despite controlling all three branches of government) as it has for the right to torture prisoners with impunity.

I can only hope that enough people wake up and pay attention. Maybe if 2/3 of Americans vote against the candidates advanced by this elite group, then these crooked and untrustworthy machines will record at least a 51% majority for the good guys!

Volusia County, Florida, was the location for the first, trial run of “election via tampering.” Research Beckstrom v. Vogel for details.

The Florida Supreme Court decision in that case, basically a one-time-only deal sealed their fate. Rather than expose their own complicity in a stolen election, they rolled over when the USSC said to play dead.

I know one of the Volusia County workers spent many days “checking” the machines after the election was contested, and Republican consultants and attorneys for the challenger basically kept the lid on.

Read the Fl. Supreme Court ruling in that case. See for yourself if it makes any sense at all.

Great article. We’ve been fortunate to have had two great presidents in a row in Bill Clinton and George W Bush, its scary to think how future elections could be stolen though.

Sounds like the democratic party is already lining up the excuses when they lose in ‘08.

Great, even RFK Jr. is missing the point on so-called “paper trails”. The machines Bill Richardson made sure New Mexico is using is what we use in Minnesota, so-called “optiscans”. Paper ballots are filled out by the voters by darkening ovals next to their choices. These ballots are then tabulated by electronic scanning machines containing the same suspect memory cards contained in touch-screen machines. These memory cards can also be programmed to flip the election without a trace, as was clearly demonstrated by Finnish expert Harri Hursti (Google this name to find out more). When is everyone going to understand that we need to hand count paper ballots? Paper trails are NO solution as long as there is electronic tabulation of any kind!

It’s not WHO votes that counts…
It’s WHO counts the votes.

– J. Stalin

It’s NOT the machines that are the
problem. A secure, CHEAP and unhackable voting machine/system
IS possible (see slot machines and ATM’s). It’s the CORRUPT and CROOKED folks running the system now that is the PROBLEM!!!!

the answer is OPEN SOURCE and making sure that the open source code that is certified and approved is the ACTUAL software you are using and the way to do this is with simple checksums. If the software you are attempting to vote with has the correct checksum (computed at RUNTIME) then it IS the same software you see PUBLISHED in the open source document you saw . In other words you don’t need to be a computer expert to KNOW that you are voting with approved and ACCURATE software.

WAKE UP FOOLS THEY ARE STEALING YOUR DEMOCRACY RIGHT OUT FROM UNDRE YOUR NOSES!!!!!!

IF they stole the elections that is treason. This act attacks the very foundations of Democracy. If we can prove this, the guilty parties must be sent to prison forever and forfeit all of their wealth to the poor.

The Democrats should unite and appoint a team to surround EACH poll 24 hours before the election. Precisely before the voting begins there should be an independent auditor examining each machine to verify it’s proper functioning.

Disgusted in Miami -

“Many wealthy and elitist people in this country have nothing but contempt for “average” people, and therefore truly detest democracy. However, a true and honest popular vote will never lead our nation to the plutocracy that these elitists desire.”

You are right about one thing…the elitist have nothing but contempt have the average American. However, those elitist are the liberals in this country. The vast majority of Americans do not support the left’s agenda and that is why the left has no desire to have fair election, or democracy. The left would prefer that activist judges decide things in this country.

Anonymous -

You are totally correct. The dems. know that they have no ideas that they can run on and win support of middle America, so they are going to scream that the elections are rigged.

The short answer is: Yes.

Massive fraud has been established by so many independent and different ways, that the results of all elections since 2000 are suspect. And, in EVERY case that I know about, the beneficiaries have been Republicans.

The results of this fraud are also manifest: a government that has become monolithically Republican and that shows at every turn an utter contempt for all but an extremely narrow sliver of the population; the extremely wealthy.

The US is already a plutocracy; after all, what else can the goal of capitalist ideologues?

However, I am confident that “We, the People” shall rise again to assert our intrinsic rights, as recognized by our Constitution, to revive our moribund democracy.

On paper trails: by what means would any sort of paper receipt prove that an electronic vote is correctly tallied as the voter had intended? Now that there is even official recognition that one can simply, quickly, and without fear of detection hack the equipment to shift votes from the intended candidate to another in the electronic scoresheet, what on earth would stop any such hacker from using the same means to produce a written receipt showing the name of the intended candidate instead. The only way in which a paper trail will ever guarantee that the intentions of the voters are faithfully recorded is if the deal at the word go is that all the paper receipts are in fact going to be counted, whatever the machines show, by hand, by a multi-partisan group of human vote talliers, just as is done in almost all other democratic countries in the world. Thus there are no advantages to be gotten from using electronic systems whatsoever, and it’s hard to imagine there ever will be.

One fact of the electoral system ensures this: the fact that our votes are secret. There are workarounds by means of which we might imagine being able to preserve this secrecy and still identify any one voter’s vote, after the election: most such models entail electronically marking each vote with something akin to a PIN code, and monitoring, by statistic means, after the fact, matching receipts and their PIN’s with the electronically recorded vote. However, since hacking in any imaginable electronic election scenario holds out the promise of truly stupendous rewards (how about: complete control of the government of the United States of America), chances of ever designing a hacker-safe system in a computerized format are probably exactly zero.

Paper ballots are nice and old-fashioned, they utilize some of the most brilliant creations of the human mind (paper, not to speak of printing), they are notoriously inexpensive (nobody will ever get filthy rich selling paper ballots), they can be made easy to understand, they can be made easy to use (eliminate all punch-hole systems, and with it chads and the rest), then collect the votes, placed in their respective envelopes in secret by the voter, in a forum of multi-partisan vote-collectors in the precinct, safely store them right there in publicly viewable boxes, then after the election is closed, keep the precinct open and safe, and open those boxes publicly, in the company of multi-partisan talliers, then order in pizzas and burgers and soft drinks and get to work counting. By 5 am the following morning the 100% certain results of the election will be delivered. If any doubts should arise regarding the tallying process, repeat at will. Simple. Cheap. Efficient. Safe. Democratic. American. The only way to go. Back to paper ballots!

boy, the kennedy’s are never lacking in surprises. jr.’s dad worked for “tail gunner” joe mccarthy. then he chastizes martin luther king, jr. for embarassing his sainted brother, jack.
now we have jr., a fake environmentalist opting to challenge wind power in new england. mom’s, you see, has fallen upon difficult time and moved to the compound. hickory hill had become animal house years ago.
soooooo, jr. now submits to rolling stone. whas-up wit dat? no new york times? no jackie? no camelot?
paaaleeze.

Robert Kennedy is a mindless twit.

p.s. maybe america has heard enough about the kennedy’s for the time being. why not skip a generation, yes?

RFK Jr. and Rolling Stone flat-out lied in their article about Ohio being stolen in 2004. He claimed 357,000 voters were denied the right to vote, and yet 347,000 of that number was simply made-up with no actual evidence backing it.

RFK Jr. and RS are simply not trustworthy, and anyone who reads this article should be very careful before accepting it as true. I know I will be.

The worst possible crime in a democracy is to steal an election… let alone multiple elections.

The leadership of this country is illegitimate. It’s as simple as that. What the citizens are suffering through is penance for allowing it to happen.

There’s that “Elected Mafia” at work again. There is a percentage of truth in everything. Even if only half of this article is true, something needs to be done. Can you imagine our country on the same path for the next eight years as it has been since 2000? What a fucked up mess our world will be then. As if it’s not already. My American flag hangs upside-down for now. We are truly a country in distress.

“The worst possible crime in a democracy is to steal an election… let alone multiple elections.

The leadership of this country is illegitimate.”

What are you talking about? When was there a stolen election?

“It’s time to kill, yes I said kill, the politicians in Washington.*”

J, you need to be locked up.

The tried and true mechanical machines which required a human to power and to cast a vote are being phased out in NY state . This is the bigest mistake we could make . The technology may very well be ancient compared to all the fancy new machines, but it is extremely effective . Multi party election inspectors , a human powered enabler to vote and a human powered voter to pull the lever and supply the actual force to register and tabulate the vote is unsurpassed in it’s simplicity. Again granted it is old technology but I do not see anyone tossing out the wheel or fire for being outdated

Americans have lost their country. They have lost their most precious right to vote for the candidates of THEIR choice.

And the few Democrats in Congress are just as culpable for not screaming for change.

Republican control of both the House and the Senate is guaranteed. This is why Bush always says that he doesn’t pay attention to polls.

BUSH KNOWS THAT THE ACT OF VOTING IS AN IRRELEVANT EXERCISE, WHICH SIMPLY GIVES GULLIBLE AMERICANS THE FALSE SENSE THAT THEY HAVE A SAY IN WHO RUNS THEIR GOVERNMENT – AND WHICH TREATS WHISTLEBLOWERS AS NOTHING MORE THAN WACKED OUT “CONSPIRACY THEORISTS” AND SORE LOSERS.

It is a travesty that this once great country is run by robber barons who have corrupted the entire Republican party, and turned a substantial majority of the Democratic leaders into silent, groveling, sniveling, spineless people who avoid the e-voting issue altogether.

Pran

If people worried that Iranian or Israeli intelligence operatives hacked our elections, this problem would get fixed!

Looking back, did a foreign power determine who won in 2000 and 2004?

This is a national security issue, not simply a partisan issue. Hopefully, all those foreign hackers cancel each other out!! That’s all we really have w/o paper ballots, hope.

Stevejust, that introduces new problems without solving the ones we actually need to fix. Your proposal would eliminate the idea of an anonymous vote. If I can go on a website after the election and prove to myself which candidate I voted for, then that means also I can take *someone else* on the website after the election and prove to *them* what candidate I voted for. If it’s possible for me to prove to someone after the election who I voted for, then it’s possible for them to bribe me for having voted the “right” way or intimidate me for having voted the “wrong” way. Look up sometime how American politics was different before the vote was anonymous. We don’t want to go back to that. What happens inside the voting booth should be a mystery to everyone but the voter, period.

We don’t need to make things this complicated.

All we need is to just *not store votes electronically*. There is no good reason for for votes to be electromagnetic smears. Have the touchscreen machines, if we want to use them, print paper ballots (or receipts, whatever you want to clal them), and put them in a fricking normal locked box. We have working, established ways of ensuring the integrity of ballots which are pieces of paper kept in ballots. Let’s use them. We will never be able to come up with a foolproof system for ensuring the integrity of votes kept in computer memory.

Capitalist Pig

You say:
“The vast majority of Americans do not support the left’s agenda and that is why the left has no desire to have fair election, or democracy. The left would prefer that activist judges decide things in this country.”

Who the hell is talking about the left? I’m talking about the center, or have you right wing-nuts forgotten that there is such a place? Centrist America endorses neither Hugo Chavez or Rush Limbaugh. We’d like to have an Eisenhower again, or a Truman. (But I suppose you think they were leftists too!)

The issue is, which party offers more hope of moving things toward the center, and I don’t think more of the right-wing “pamper the rich” policies of this adminsitration will accomplish that! But then I’m not rich enough to be an elite, how about you? (And finally, there are just as many “activist” judges on the conservative side as on the liberal side these days!)

From the CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF
CLERKS AND ELECTION OFFICIALS m- July 27, 2006

Here is part of the mailing:

“Sending voting equipment and supplies home with poll workers is equally secure to the alternative approach of delivering equipment to poll sites in advance of the election where the chain of custody and security cannot be as easily documented or traced.”

And the full text:

ISSUE PAPER: VOTING EQUIPMENT “SLEEPOVER” PRACTICE
CALIFORNIA ASSOCIATION OF CLERKS AND ELECTION OFFICIALS (CACEO)

July 27, 2006

The reference to voting equipment “sleepover” refers to the practice of election officials distributing secured voting equipment to poll workers in advance of the election. In this model, voting equipment and all election supplies (including paper ballots) are stored at the home of lead poll workers (inspectors) and transported to the poll site on Election Day. Questions have been raised regarding the security and integrity of voting equipment under this practice.

Association Statement

The California Association of Clerks and Election Officials (CACEO) recognizes that distributing secured voting equipment to poll workers prior to Election Day is an efficient, accountable and transparent practice that contributes to the orderly and secure conduct of elections.

The following safeguards associated with this practice ensure that the integrity of the elections process is maintained:

• All poll workers take an oath to uphold the integrity of the elections process prior to initiating their duties. Poll workers are essential to ensuring public accountability in the elections process. It is appropriate that they are entrusted with the security of voting equipment and supplies prior to and during the day of the election.
• Poll workers are trained to confirm that voting equipment is sealed and that the tamper-evident seals are not broken prior to the opening of the polls on Election Day.
• Lead poll workers (inspectors) are required to complete comprehensive training on all election processes which they are legally responsible for administering on Election Day.
• Sending voting equipment and supplies home with poll workers is equally secure to the alternative approach of delivering equipment to poll sites in advance of the election where the chain of custody and security cannot be as easily documented or traced.
• Memory cards, programming chips and other electronic data storage devices used to record votes are sealed within the voting equipment using tamper-evident seals prior to distribution.
• Upon confirming that the seals are intact prior to opening the polls, the poll workers break the seals and run a zero report (or tape) to document and confirm that no votes have been cast or recorded on equipment prior to the first voter appearing at the poll site.
• At the close of the polls, a results report (or tape) is run to show the number of ballots cast and votes recorded on the equipment. This report is maintained as part of the comprehensive audit and reconciliation processes associated with the canvassing and certification of the election.
• California election law requires all voting systems to produce a physical representation of the ballot, either a paper ballot or a voter verified paper audit trail, which is used to validate vote results recorded on or by the voting system.
• As a public and transparent process, elections in the United States historically rely on the checks and balances associated with appointing citizen poll workers to oversee the conduct at the polls. This practice is consistent with that model.

“That’s when they’d then have to resort to the old, “I forgot my voting receipt was in my pocket and I washed my pants” routine.”

I think few people would believably “forget” not to run their voting receipt through the wash when the alternative is having their fingers broken.

There are some scenarios we do not want to even be hypothetically possible.

“It could also be made a crime to ask for or to show anyone your ballot receipt, which would dramatically cut down though not eliminate such situations.”

It would be simpler, easier, and more sane to simply not have any such “receipt” be given to the voter, keep the paper ballots/receipts under lock and key, make votes untrackable, and keep what happens inside the voting booth private and secret.

“I would prefer to have the ability to make sure my vote was counted the way I cast it above all else. ”

Unfortunately you cannot get your “preference” without removing the RIGHT to an anonymous vote from every other voter. Therefore, you are not going to get what you want.

“The best thing about electronic voting is that e-voting makes this possible.”

No, that is in fact the WORST thing about electronic voting. It makes abuses, such of the system, such as nonanonymous votes, possible; whereas a simple, minimal system like paper ballots in a locked box resists such complexities.

On the other hand, what electronic voting does NOT make possible is verification of almost any kind, because of the problem of trusting trust. You think you’re going to be able to take your receipt home, enter your randomized id, and see how you voted. This is a bit naive. For example, why are you so sure you can trust the website to tell the truth?

NO SOUL LEFT IN AMERICA
Corruption is rampant in america to such a degree that americans seem to have lost their souls and cannot find their way to save their own lives,like a terminal disease running rampant without a treatment,nevermind a cure.AMERICA IS TRULY SICKENING AND KARMA WILL COME EVENTUALLY

I am sure the Neocons will Lie and cheat since they have done that over and over. It may be time for us to play the game with thir rules. I am sure some Liberals are willing and able to beat them at their own game. The Neocons will then scream for safer, election equipment. What about waterboarding Diebold employees but just for fun?

Tamara: “Al Gore should have been in the White House, and ditto for John Kerry.”

Well, had they WON THE ELECTION, they would have been in the white house. But, they didn’t. You need to brush up on your Constitution…

I can’t believe I’m engaging in this debate, but…

Ancon said:

“Unfortunately you cannot get your ‘preference’ without removing the RIGHT to an anonymous vote from every other voter. Therefore, you are not going to get what you want.”

I said “like an ATM receipt.” You know when the ATM asks, would you like a receipt for this transaction? People who don’t want a paper trail don’t have to take it. I wouldn’t give that option choice directly on the computer, because then software could be written to specifically target that vote. But a paper shredder next to where you pull your receipt out of the machine would be no different than a locked ballot box. And I know people have no problems tossing their ATM receipts in the trash by the ATMS. It’s like second nature to us.

No one’s right is being infringed, any more than the possibility of someone looking over your shoulder no matter what device you’re using to vote.

There are those who’ve alleged the kind of voting fraud this article speaks of began with the machines that read the old hanging-chad style punch card ballots, because those machines could be programed to rig elections as well.

Giving the people the choice, if the don’t desire to maintain the confidentiality of their vote the option to help oversee the process and make sure it is working shouldn’t meet with the kind of resistance you’re giving it.

There are concerns. The primary one is what remedy might a person have who’s vote was improperly counted. That’s why I proposed a $250,000 fine per occurance. Give Diebold and friends a little inentive not to screw up.

You are correct there are concerns. But compared to what we have now, I’d say it’d be most preferable.

Disgusted in Miami –
“Who the hell is talking about the left? I’m talking about the center, or have you right wing-nuts forgotten that there is such a place?”

No one has forgotten the center except liberal like yourself. Please save the “I am centrist” for someone who will believe it, you are liberal to the core. Just look at your statements.

“Many wealthy and elitist people in this country have nothing but contempt for “average” people, and therefore truly detest democracy.”

Class warfare – pure liberal talking points. The center does not buy into the class warfare game.

“They achieved the control that they wanted, and for six years they have looted the national treasury, sold out working people to international sweatshops, stolen bales of cash in Iraq, and cut taxes for the rich.”

Looted the treasury, another liberal talking point. But of course the libs never explain how Bush is looting the treasury. It just sounds good to the left. And of course tax cuts for the rich, the fav lib talking point. The middle knows that the tax cuts benefited them. In fact under Bush the bottom 50% of taxpayers paid 3% of the taxes, under Clinton they paid 4% of the taxes. Guess Clinton gave even bigger tax cuts for the rich.

“The issue is, which party offers more hope of moving things toward the center, and I don’t think more of the right-wing “pamper the rich” policies of this adminsitration will accomplish that!”

More liberal talking points. You are no moderate, you are a liberal. And this whole voting fraud shit is nothing but the dems way of crying that they were robbed evertime they lose and election. Talk about destroying democracy, the dems are the ones who hate democracy because they can’t win the White House.

Andy wrote:

“Well, had they WON THE ELECTION, they would have been in the white house. But, they didn’t. You need to brush up on your Constitution… ”

Maybe you should try reading the 12th Amendment, specifically the first clause which states, “The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves…”

Why? Because in 2000 Bush was governor of Texas, and Cheney, the year he was first elected, was CEO of Halliburton. His office was in Dallas, he claimed his Texas Homestead on his house in Dallas, his cars were registered in Texas, and when he went to get a Wyoming Drivers’ license that summer so that when this issue was raised he could claim to be a WY resident, his wife didn’t even come with him to switch her voter’s registration– which remained in Dallas. Dick Cheney was a Texas inhabitant. His becoming vice president was a violation of the 12th Amendment.

A republican appointed judge decided that the people who sued in Dallas didn’t have standing to sue, and that he was a WY resident. Fitzwater might have been right on standing, but the constitution didn’t say residency, it said inhabitant. Not residency or domicile. And if the plaintiffs didn’t have standing to sue, then who has standing to enforce the 12th amendment? And if no one can, what good is it?

Read your constitution, and tell me where it permits the president to perform his illegal NSA wiretaps?

RE: the “receipt” issue, this is a *very* bad idea. What’s needed is a voter verified paper trail, either in the form of paper ballots or in a printed paper tape stream (like a cash register) that can be visually verified by each voter through a sealed plate glass window and is then stored *inside the machine* to make it possible to conduct an audit afterward. Simply handing out a receipt to each voter afterward still doesn’t allow for a recount to audit the machine count.

The point here is to create an audit trail, not to print receipts to hand out to voters. Otherwise, how is one to know that what is printed on the receipt is also what has been stored in the machine’s memory card?

“I said “like an ATM receipt.” You know when the ATM asks, would you like a receipt for this transaction? People who don’t want a paper trail don’t have to take it.”

Unless they don’t want a paper trail, but they know that if they *don’t* click yes and later produce the “correct” receipt that evening, they will be fired / have their fingers broken / other, harder-to-trace retaliation / etc.

The other side to this is vote buying; it may be that the voter *wants* to get an ATM-style vote receipt, so that they can go to an undisclosed location that evening and trade it for $25 cash. That is not an option that people should be given, even if they want it, even hypothetically.

“No one’s right is being infringed, any more than the possibility of someone looking over your shoulder no matter what device you’re using to vote.”

False. In an actual polling place, election observers can watch and make sure that nobody is looking over anybody’s shoulder while they vote. The problem there then becomes nothing more complicated than ensuring the election observers are sufficient and collectively neutral. This is a manageable problem.

If a paper receipt is allowed to leave the building, however, all bets are off and we have an unmanageable problem.

“Giving the people the choice, if the don’t desire to maintain the confidentiality of their vote the option to help oversee the process and make sure it is working shouldn’t meet with the kind of resistance you’re giving it.”

You cannot have your “choice” without simultaneously denying others the RIGHT to an anonymous vote.

“You are correct there are concerns. But compared to what we have now, I’d say it’d be most preferable. ”

The most preferable would be to simply chuck electronic vote tabulation of any kind and go back to systems that are KNOWN to work, like paper ballots or verifiable mechanical voting machines. If computers have to be involved in some way, make them just a touchscreen which prints a paper ballot. This way you get the advantages of a touchscreen voting system combined with the simplicity of a paper ballot system. But the more complex we make things, the more chances we create for abuse.

“Give Diebold and friends a little inentive not to screw up.”

I say, fire diebold and the rest of the e-voting snake oil salesmen, and then it won’t be *possible* for them to screw up.

“But compared to what we have now, I’d say it’d be most preferable.”

Which “we” is this?

Where I live, Diebold voting machines are already banned. Voting is done on non-networked, carefully audited touchscreen machines which, when you are done voting, print out a receipt behind a little glass panel for you to review and then drop it into a box which will not be opened except for recounting purposes. I can think of no improvement to this system that does not involve removing hardware (remove the electronic vote storage and use only the recount slips, for example).

Ancon– let’s say you and I strike a deal. I say I’ll give you $25 if you vote for me.

You come in with your receipt and say where’s my $25?

I say, if it where up your… you’d know where it was.

What are you going to do to me? Sue me? There’s no enforceability to that deal. Some people might be stupid enough to “sell” their votes, but they’re not necessarily ever going to get their money for it.

Now, there could be incentives for a party to honor the agreement to pay for the vote for future elections and good will, but somehow I think the dangers of selling votes today aren’t the same as the Tammany Hall days. I just don’t really see situations where people are going to get their fingers broken, or lose jobs.

It’s not impossible. But imagine this: I work at Diebold. I support the wrong candidate. They ask me for my receipt to prove I supported Blackwell. They fire me. I sue them for firing me, and allege they broke the law by asking me for my voter receipt in violation of federal law.

What happens? I win a $5 million verdict in a civil suit. Diebold gets fined in a criminal investigation.

I believe it is possible, in this day and age, to have the best of both worlds: anonymity for those who want it, and the ability to perform your own audit for those who want that ability.

I think we should embrace that as a possible step forward.

As for firing Diebold, I just want to remind you that in my original post I encouraged we the people of this republic to declare war on Diebold.

“What are you going to do to me? Sue me? There’s no enforceability to that deal. Some people might be stupid enough to “sell” their votes, but they’re not necessarily ever going to get their money for it.”

Who cares? The vote’s already cast; they might not get payment, but the damage is done.

And it’s obvious why the vote buyer would follow through on their end of the bargain: they want to be able to buy votes in the next election as well. There may be people who fall for a vote-buying scheme where they aren’t actually paid. But they’re not going to fall for it *twice*.

Creating an environment where vote buying is possible and then attempting to police it afterward is simply not feasable on the scale of a general election. Even with heavy fines and consequences, we (as a nation) can barely keep a lid on the lesser problem of voter registration fraud. Saying people will just turn in someone who attempts to engage in a vote-buying scheme assumes there will be no methods of reward or retaliation which are indirect or unprovable, or systems of corruption where the targets are unable to move against the vote-buyer (you might turn in your employer to the cops over a $25 vote buying attempt, but not your drug dealer). We are better off without the temptation in the system.

“I think we should embrace that as a possible step forward.”

Take home receipts are a step backward in the most literal sense possible. They are a return to a kind of system which was *tried*– and rejected in the first half of the twentieth century.

Gelinas wrote:

“It’s a bad idea. One that has been debated and soundly debunked by the likes of Avi Rubin and Bruce Schneier.”

I tried to find commentary by either of them debunking the possibility of an anonymous (if you so choose) receipt system, but could not easily locate such commentary. Am interested in reading. Please provide a link if you have one.

If i.d. voting became part of the computer voting process (like scanning the i.d., I’m not a computer expert so I don’t know how it could be done but I’m sure it could) wouldn’t this eliminate the programs ability to cheat the numbers?

Gina, I’m not sure I understand the question. What do you mean by “cheat the numbers” and how would the use of I.D.s in any way prevent it?

That last comment was mine. I hit the post button without my name by accident. Apologies to Steve.

It seems futile to plan electioneering strategies if there is no assurance of an accurate vote count. Better not have an election at all, at least until you can have a genuine one. Maybe some honest people from the former “third world” can come and show us how it’s done.

Just where is Pelosi and Reid on this? Oh yeah, I forgot, they are just the other wing on the corporate jet.

This just proves the people need 2 boxes to ensure Democracy. The Ballot Box and the Ammo Box.

The fix is in folks. Either bendover and continue to take it, or fight back, cause they ain’t goin’ give your vote back.

War.

Capitalist Piggy

Squeal “liberal” all you want but the tuth is that I am a liberal on *some* social issues, a libertarian on privacy issues, and mostly I am a fiscal conservative who favors a balance between spending and taxation and wants wasteful government spending curtailed (I even favor, God forbid, a budget surplus for a few years to pay off the national debt.)

You “trickle down” economy fools will never figure out that prosperity for everyone (the rich, the national treasury, etc.) only happens when the masses of the population are prospering. So enjoy your delusion of prosperity based on a stock market that will tank as soon as the Chinese, Japanese, Saudis and others from whom we have borrowed decide that they have had enough.

Einstein in coming up with his theories of relativity assumed that the speed of light was the maximum speed anything could attain. From that all his theories were formed and they fit perfectly.

Now let us assume that the voting has been rigged for a while now. This would explain all of the GOP behavior. They propound torture, corporate rip off of citizens, invasion with no reason, katrina, eavesdropping, secret signings, an insane war against terrorits, etc. and et al.

Now how do they get away with it. It is so outrageous that they can propose and fulfill these rediculous and illegal policies and still get elected.

I think if we assume they know they are going to get elected anyway all they have to do is have some words that kind of make sense. And then do whatever they want.

It’s a liberal democrat birthright to be in power, if the liberals lose the elections it is because someone cheated, hacked, disenfranchised etc. The reason for the lost cannot be the fact that the majority of the people who voted for the conservative. No, can’t be that! Keep believing that you continue to lose because someone stole it or hacked or whatever. Absolutely do not examine your position or beliefs. The is no need for self examination or reflection, just keep believing that your liberal ways are the norm and that everyone is wrong or cheated.

Thanks

Election fraud … it’s easy to predict who will use it, and who doesn’t need it.
Consider the clammoring to avoid legitimizing factual proof of citizenship by claiming a great propoganda perspective called “disenfranchised”. In America today, this is nearly impossible, and if possible, it lies in the hands of those politicians who have insisted on keeping it that way. Ironically, the Democrat jurisdictions have the highest levels of so-called disenfranchised citizens.
Why is this? I thought that the Democrats claim improvements in their jurisdictions, when in fact their constituents are the so-called victims of elections while under the supervision of the Democrats. How can it be then that the Republicans are the cause of this victimization? Because it’s not true.
If disenfranchisement is truly the goal of the Democrats, then why need ID for anything? Why should people have to prove if a car is theirs, or an insurance policy? The people that have the hardest time affording cars and insurance are the poor, so why insist on any documentation at all?

Buy the lie, and we all lose. Citizens have the responsibility to make sure they have ID to vote for the prevention of dishonest elections. If the Democrats really are concerned about accurate elections, then why do they fight it?

Great article but instead of a paper “receipt” we need a voter-verified paper BALLOT, with the paper ballot, hand counted, ruling supreme in any audit or recount. We need mandatory random audits, using the paper ballot in a hand count, not utilizing the machine count. If, upon audit, there is a discrepancy between the paper ballot and the machine count, then we need to have a total hand count of all paper ballots. Face it, we don’t need a machine to count the votes! We are just seeming stuck with the imminently hackable things because Representative Bob Ney (R-Ohio), who has recently been discredited and has pled guilty to corruption charges and faces a prison term, shoved the “Help America Vote Act” (HAVA) down our throats. HAVA made states think that they had to spend millions of dollars to purchase the electronic voting machines, mostly from Diebold and ES&S. Those companies are owned by the Ursevich brothers, who are right wing supporters of Bush and his ilk. We have no hope of taking this country back after two stolen elections unless we ensure that every vote is counted as cast. And that is only going to be possible with hand-counted paper ballots, not “receipts”. Andy Stephenson is rolling in his grave about the use of the term “receipts”.

Electronic voting machines have absolutely no place in a democracy!!!!!!! I guess in a fascist regime, like the current Bush administration, they are the only things that will keep the criminals in power, as the masses will not pick the thugs!!!!!!!

Why do you think they FORCED these electronic machines on us. Think. It is a computer and a Computer will do what it is programed to do (Rig an election) Also Computers fail EVERYDAY. No means of a recount, no paper trail. Wake UP as far as I’m concerned they have just taken away our right to vote!

There are enough honest voting precincts in the country so that hand counting votes will be far less subject to cheating than the current push button system. If in fact the currently predominant voting machine system is the political equivalent of the Presidential nuclear football. Voting machines are in that sense the greatest threat to National Security every conceived. How else can Professor Thomas PM Barnett suggest in his book “The Pentagon’s New Map: War and Peace in the Twenty-First Century,” a one hundred year war? Does he mean that once the vote is gone, the public may never effectively disapprove a clearly unjust war? And the subject matter is “terrorism,” something like declaring war on Karate, or a tactic of war?

Not to be lead too far astray here, but voting machines currently used are a threat to us all, even to the dishonest among us, since they would unchecked not only destroy the elite but also a once rightfully proud nation.

If all these big words are too much for some of us, just remember as in dishonest voting machines and as in real life, “when the cat’s away, the mice will play.”

There is enough information, from highly credible sources, in the public domain, for be to question whether or not my vote has been counted for the last 6 years.

I really don’t have any choice but to vote absentee and pray that the absentee ballots don’t disappear or not even get sent out until it’s too late to vote or some other crazy damn thing.

We really should have a nationalized election proceedure, using paper ballots. Otherwise, there is taxation without representation happening and I thought that was one of the reasons for the American Revolution.

The American people ought to refuse to pay taxes to their states until they get paper ballots and some asurance that their votes will be counted, under public scrutiny.

To have this kind of evidence of wide-spread and massive election fraud in a democracy is simply intolerable.

I do not need to be convinced. I am convinced and have been since the debacle of 2000 in Florida. My question is age-old.

How does the one with little power find the leverage point to make change? Where are other small powers gathering to join their forces?

The reader who points us to Orwell’s quote understands the perspective is big – bigger than those who will comment on this article and feel satisfied that they have done something.

It is big and it is non-partisan contrary to the acid comments of some.

I don’t know where to throw my small weight but I know that I despair another national election like 2000 or 2004.

After commenting, I – and you – have to find a way to regain fairness and neutrality in election practices. Commenting is great but it isn’t enough.

Go. Act. Make noise.

Ironic, our own government wouldn’t accept the election in the Ukraine, yet it maintains a blind eye on our own election processes.

Thankfully, several national sources are beginning to get it, Rolling Stone, Keith Olbermann and Lou Dobbs. And for those who think mentioning the word “liberal” is an argument, notice what Lou Dobbs is saying.

Secret voting has come to be accepted as a protection for the rights of citizens. Secret vote counting — that can’t be checked for accuracy — is an entirely different matter.

Unfortunately, even the paper trail — sometimes erroneously called a “receipt” — is almost worthless. One fifth of the votes in the Cuyahoga County (Cleveland, OH) 2006 Primary could not be read on the paper trail. They were over-printed, the paper was torn, or they were just missing.

Secretary of State Blackwell ordered the paper trails turnd off for all the absentee ballots there (about 17,000 votes).

While the paper trail is the ballot of record, there is no audit of results, and no use of the paper trail unless there is a recount at $50 per precinct. We’re stuck with “Trust us.”

There will be a return to some semblance of democracy in this country only with a move to 100 percent hand counted paper ballots with citizen observers at every step of the process.

Has anyone ever checked on where all the votes from all the states end up.

It is my understanding they all end up in the same place. An office of a private corporation. This corporation has no oversight. No one can enter without authority from the corporation. No one has authority to examine the computers. Only certain people can see the election results from around the country.

In view of this, how would we know if the figures given out to the media and public are correct???

If this can be refutted, please do so. I really would like to know if the above is the real scenerio.

I have taken to voting by absentee ballot, which is more convenient and ensures a paper ballot. It just takes a little bit of planning ahead.

capitalism, the new totalitarianism. Why do wealthy men try so hard to get a job that only pays a couple of hundred grand a year? Are they doing it to help the people? Why aren’t there more professors, scientists, and other members of the intelligencia running for office instead of lawyers and businessmen?

The conspiracy point of view is bolstered by the fact that, despite the major problems in Ohio, none of the major news outlets would report on it. When BBC reporter, Greg Palast, had fool proof evidence in 2000 of illegal voter purging, no American network would touch it. When the GAO report came out confirming voting machine problems in Ohio and elsewhere, despite being praised by a bipartisan group of Representatives, no major news organization would carry the story. Obviously, the people with the power to control the content of the several biggest media companies had the results they wanted to see and would not allow the story to gain traction with the public, regardless of how bipartisan or credible the sources were.

I will be happy when the election results are the same as the exit polls. All my life, untill 2000 then 2004 the exit polls have been correct.Suddenly they mean nothing, even though that is how election fairnell and honesty is checked for the world over.

I understand that my vote will no longer count. NY is going to EVMs. Funny,diebold can make ATMs that can print a accurate receipt and are difficult to hack (reasonably secure) Why can’t they apply some of the same technology to the EVMs. They were certainly well paid for these corruptable pieces of crap, it should have been a simple thing to do. Oh wait didn’t diebold promise to deliver votes to the president? No wonder they had to be hackable, it was the only way that the votes could have been delivered to the president . Remember it is our obligation as citizens to remove elected officials that do not act in the best interest of those that elected them. If the people get out and vote the way that polls are showing the election outcome will be so lopsided that vote fixing will be obvious. Help remind people to vote,remind them of the current administration liars and those who support them. Lets get rid of them. P.S. It seems that most every blog has some (paid?)champion of the liars.

RFK is still at it? He is still up in arms over the state of Ohio in 2004 even after the Secretary of State in Ohio (A Democrat) stated Bush won the state fair and square. And now he is putting the bug out there for November.

My Prediction: Any state where a Democrat may win, Little Bobby will not have any problems with EVMs.

Remember, there was one voting machine company which produced a fairly well secure, safe, recountable, accessible machine, which used mostly third-party parts and standard 8.5×11 paper, and which also could do IRV (ranked) voting when we all get wise and use it. That was the company which reportedly refused to pay off politicians to get consideration for contracts.

Only two counties in the entire country, I believe, bought that machine. Where is AccuPoll now?

I come from a country that has had paper ballots and an preferential voting system in place for nearly a century. We count them by hand. We distribute the preferences by hand. The election is supervised by an independent national electoral commission. Party workers may witness the counting but as forbidden by law from touching the ballot papers. The election results are still known by 8pm (polls close at 6pm). What’s the obsession with electronic voting anyway? Paper ballots filled out by the voters themselves and supervised and counted by nonpartisan commissions are easily the most secure system to record and count votes.

The only time the machines will not be hacked is when the decision to not do it, happens. And who knows if and when that will ever happen.
Can the American citizens trust the system ??? Are we near third world status ???

The democrats have been undergroudn since the year 2000. It is time the party surfaces like the lockness monster and appears to make a difference in peoples lives./

This is why I am no longer a Democrat. Except for the African-American’s in Congress, few Dems show any concern that our weak Democracy has been totally usurped by a completely corrupt incumbancy. Hugo’s two elections in Venezula have been far cleaner than the last 3 US elections, and that’s a verifiable fact.

Hallzee writes:

“RFK is still at it? He is still up in arms over the state of Ohio in 2004 even after the Secretary of State in Ohio (A Democrat) stated Bush won the state fair and square. And now he is putting the bug out there for November.”
—————— —————

Maybe the uninformed hallzee needs to do some research instead of listening to the fox gop channel, and understand that ohio’s secretary of state, blackwell, is indeed a republiCon, and running for gov with diebold’s blessings!

Amerika is owned by big biz, and almost every politico is bought and paid for today, despite their party affilliation. Until we have a completely transparent voting system, with an operating system like unix, we will continue to have stolen elections by the unscrupulous and greedy!

We know that things are bad when a Kennedy worries about stolen elections! It’s sort of like the Republicans polling the cemeteries to figure out why they lose the dead vote every election. The answer, if both parties are serious about honest elections (suspension of disbelief here) is to have valid good ID and a paper trail. Years ago an article appeared explaning how voting machines corrupted elections – again, no paper trail. But that didn’t attract RFK the lesser’s attention. Both Republicans and Democrats have a real cynical look at elections – they are they pathways to power.

Any one caught or suspected of tampering with the votes, machines,
or process, should be deemed a enemy of the state / terrorist and be sent to gitmo. Where they can serve out their term …. it might get pretty crowded there and turn into club fed.

Federal election law requires all software used in connection with electronic voting to be tested and certified, unless it is purchased “off the shelf” without changes from a major third-party software vendor like Microsoft. Diebold’s touchscreen software uses the Microsoft Windows CE operating system. Windows CE is used by a number of hardware vendors to run their hand-held personal digital assistants and other proprietary computer devices. It has to be customized by the manufacturer of the PDA or other device to run on its particular hardware.

The same is true of the Diebold hardware and software. In order for Windows CE to serve as the operating system for Diebold’s voting machines and run their software in the 2000, 2002 and 2004 elections, it had to be modified by Diebold programmers to work on their hardware. Yet Diebold informed the certifying company that it used Windows CE “off the shelf” with no modifications, and the testing agency accepted this representation without verifying it.

Corrupt code capable of changing election outcomes, changing audit logs and then deleting itself (”self-modifying code”) can be placed in an operating system just as readily as in a program that runs on that operating system.

Diebold circumvented a federal law that was intended to ensure that corrupt software is not used in elections. Consequently, there is no way to know whether elections using Diebold election machines running Windows CE were stolen or not. Since we have no way of knowing that the will of the people was followed, there is no way to know whether the right person has been in the White House since 2000. The same is true of other elected offices all over the country.

Consequently, every election that has used Diebold voting machines running an uncertified version of the Microsoft Windows CE operating system, including the 2000, 2002 and 2004 national elections, denied each voter who participated in the electoral process due process of law and was therefore completely invalid. In effect, we did not have elections in those years. Instead, in each of them, we may very well have had what was essentially a neatly executed secret coup d’etat.

Of course, it was stolen. We were here in Northeast Ohio, registering voters, driving them to the polls. We registered thousands, so many that the Elections Board couldn’t keep up.

I’ve been blogging this and blogging this and blogging this, in the US, on UK sites, to no avail. We were here, ask us. We could have told you on November 3rd, 2004, that something was rotten. There is just no way on God’s green earth that man won.

Zogby wss suddenly way off the mark? Good-bye incumbent 50% rule? Just because Karl Rove said so? Geez! Maybe the Europeans are right; maybe we deserve what we get. It’s just idiocy that any of us are swallowing this administration’s hogwash.

This isn’t sour grapes, this isn’t just my “opinion.” That man, that imposter, that pretender to the throne… HE LOST.

And he knows it.

Thank you, Robert Kennedy.

Anarchist,
If I was misinformed I apologize and I will research it further. But I did not get my information from FOX like many of you accuse us of. Actually, wasn’t that written in a Dayton Newspaper that is far from a Right Wing Rag?

greentick,
Congrats on your hard work. If the 2000 and 2004 elections were so corrupt, then why did Gore and Kerry quit fighting for the rights of all the Democratic voters so quickly? (Kerry more than Gore) If they made as much noise back then as they’re making now, maybe one of them would be President. But if they won’t fight for their voters, what makes you think they would fight for America in the world we live in today?

And as far as blaming Karl Rove for changing the election rules, does this guy really have that much power?

This is the most critical threat to the integrity of our Democracy that we face. Hand counted ballots at the precinct level/signed for/county & state same process and somebody’s ass on the line for the accuracy. Chain of custody audits at all levels. Let’s take back our friggin’ Democracy. There’re more of us than there are of them by a country mile.
National Strike on Oct. 5th!!
Don’t surrender your vote to an electronic Black Hole where it’s disassembled digitally and re-assembled in the proper form by a mystery machine, the working’s of which we, The People, are not allowed to see. Not that we don’t trust the Partisan Hacks because we don’t!!!

“A Better Election System” By Paul Magill Smith 3-8-2K6
“To begin with, in the United States there must be a powerful demolition of the old political order: We need elections where all votes are cast and counted. The campaign against voter repression is the essential civil rights struggle of our time, even though most progressives don’t seem to realize it yet. Prevailing will require fundamental reform such as the introduction of nationwide vote-by-mail (the Oregon system). Without that, and also many relentless prosecutions, nothing else will be achieved”.—JAMES K. GALBRAITH March 30, 2006 “Taming Global Capitalism Anew”—(April 17, 2006 issue of The Nation Magazine)
James K. Galbraith, chair of the board of Economists for Peace and Security, teaches at the University of Texas and is senior scholar with the Levy Economics Institute

The latest round of corruption in our government stems from the biggest executive crime of all. In collusion with the Supreme Court our glorious president/dictator/tyrant “stole” the election of 2000, with another criminal (Tom DeLay) “stole” a majority in the house through re-districting, and with corporate henchmen in Diebold & Company “stole” another presidency in 2004. Whether you agree with the presidential election results or not there were statistical anomolies, and thousands of citizen complaints that should have required greater scrutiny & inquiry.
Since the 2000 presidential election our national coffers have been looted to the tune of trillions of dollars, and with almost three more years to go in this theocratic oligarchy there is still much more damage to come. Our financial ruin, through an unsustainable balance of trade deficit, massive fiscal deficits, and a consolidation of wealth in the hands of a few individuals & corporations, bodes ill for generations of Americans to come—IF there are generations to come after the effects of global warming, a state of perpetual global war, and depleted uranium have their way with us.
A bleak picture-yes-but there is cause for hope. Going under the assumption most Americans have a streak of common sense, and an inbred respect for ‘the rule of law’, the first step toward retrieving our now stolen democracy is restoring honesty to our electoral process. Accountability, verifiability, and transparency are not luxuries; they are necessities if democracy in America (the world) is to be viable.
With these considerations in mind I propose an entirely new election system for this country. It uses, for the most part, existing equipment & technology already in place throughout the entire country, and would only require the development of some software. Election expenses would be reduced, election theft would become a thing of the past, and national referendums on key issues would become a possibility. The ‘will of the people’ would become king, instead of the preferences of King George/Dick/Karl/Donald/ etc.
So here is the idea. Currently in the US there are 368,000 ATM machines. They are easy to use (even from a car), provide a paper trail, accessible by use of a card with security features, and very accurately keep track of billions of transactions every month (a 1% accuracy error, which is acceptable for most elections, would land bankers out of their jobs & very likely jailed).
OK, so the first part deals with voting at ATM’s, except when they are being used for elections they would become AVM’s (Automatic Voting Machines).
The issue of verifiability would be very simple also. Since each registered voter would receive their own magnetic credit-card type, individually numbered card (requiring a personalized identification number-PIN-to make it work), each voter would have a specific number, and security that they were the only one who had the secret code to access the AVM. Following an election their unique number, along with the way their vote was recorded would be published in the local paper & on the internet at a specific site. Since all the voter numbers could be placed in numerical order it would be easy to scan down the list to your number and verify your vote was cast for the person you wanted it to be.
If it was an election with candidates in a number of positions your vote would read as a multi-character number. An example would be 1324113 in which you voted for 7 different people for as many electable posts. The AVM would have given you a hard copy receipt to be used to verify against the posted list.
ATM’s are already linked to central computers, so collection of the total votes from all the machines should present very little problem. Election officials would be necessary at these institutions to verify all the votes were retrieved, but the elimination of officials at each precinct polling place would eliminate much of the costs of holding elections as with our current system. As a further dis-incentive to election fraud, caused by computer tampering, if a certain percentage or number of voters provide their AVM receipt to election officials, and their vote code doesn’t match that of the central computers, the election results are AUTOMATICALLY declared void, resulting in a new election.
Since I have only begun thinking & writing about this new system I am sure there are many details to be considered and worked out. The bottom line is the current election system is broken, with millions of Americans lacking confidence in the extant election process & results.
As the world’s oldest democracy, holding our ’system’ up as a model for budding or want-to-be democracies around the globe, it behooves us to make sure our own system is the best we can possibly make it, and the one others will wish to emulate. “Do as I say” is not good enough. If America is to ‘talk the talk’ we must ‘walk the walk’ also.

Paul Magill Smith
24 Oak Leigh Ct.
Richmond, VA 23238
804-360-9382
Rockitz.o rg

Maybe someone should file a request at the UN to send out a big number of observers to make sure you’re nation gets a proper and untampered election?
Well, it might be worth a try

Can’t someone give us a way to rig an EM pulse so that we can drive by and distroy voting machines while still in the wherehouses – forcing the country to use paper ballets.

The thought that “hacking” will be the basis for stealing the next election is pretty simplistic!!!

WITHOUT the technology, THEY have managed to steal the last two…so in the guise of “fair” elections widespread computer voting won’t be enacted any time soo…but we forget one of the fundamental lessons of history—the Electorial College was created by the Founding Fathers because they never put much credence into the will of the people.

We have had two years, maybe six, and we, the Democrats have done little, if nothing to correct the system.
Bush is fighting for his life. You don’t think that he is going to resort to any and all means to win. Ann Richards, bless her heart, told us that he was a dirty fighter. We should have heeded her words.
As a Democrat, I have exhausted my efforts to prod attention to this subject. If the party cannot, at this crucial time, get out and vote in at least a change in one of the houses, then they have themselves to blame.
I’m done.

Since the 2000 election, I have given up the fantasy that we live in a democracy. The Bush administration has proved to me that my vote doesn’t count.

I love that line Ann R. gave during the election… ‘poor george, he was born with a silver foot in his mouth’

So, what are we going to do about it??? Get off the couch and do something!!! This is not a drill.

when you can open a DIEBOLD Voting machine with a ‘mini-bar’ key…now really, anyone who still believes we live in Democracy is in critical condition denial. Every branch of our government is so corrupt that the very few good public servants left are holding on for dear life.

skeptic94514-Please, Give me a Break!

The idea of taking voting machines home flies in the face of any hope of Democracy in the vote count…

If there is such a law in California,(I am a Californian) and I am going to call my local Demo Party and find out what idiot passed that law….

In Florida, during the heavy Cheat- Bush -In -political Republican squads, one of their means to nix absentee ballots was to sleep with them and double mark them…Rendering them null and void.

In San Diego, recently, the “election officials” took the Diebolds home….

What a Con…..Never should be allowed to go to a private home and certainly is open to any and all kinds of tampering-that’s how the Repubes got their candidate in, again…

Cunningham had cheated us all and will enjoy jail time(maybe)…

The Democrats need to stand up and make more noise(The “Squeaky Wheel” syndrome)…(Think of what Wailing we’d be hearing if their candidates were cheated out)….

If elections need to be forever in limbo, to keep a cheater out, then it is a must deed…….

Bono-H-Rep- and most of the Repubes will not endorse legislation for a paper trail-that tells you who has no problems with cheating, again….

The Democrats need not worry about noise or investigating and getting petitions signed re. the law that the Repubs would not pass or vote “Yes” on….

And Demos, you know what website you can go to get info on options-so Move On and check it out…

Don’t listen to Repube fools that want you to believe the Lie-we all know Georgie-boy didn’t “Win” either election and we don got robbed….

Let’s not let them do it again…..Volunteer, check out what is happenin at your local polling place…(I always wanted to be a detective) and report anything that looks “Bush-Fuzzy” to your political party….

and, “Scott Games” and your question as to why the Demos did nothing-they need everyone to flood the voting booths/get absentees and then if a there is a majority in the House and or Senate, there will be legislation to stop all this nonsense and get down to the business of Democracy in the election process…

Flood the voting booths-Vote and Vote Smart….No more Lemons that get in without a majority vote….Enough!

The Republican gov’s control literally every single aspect of the voting process: from deciding how many machines go to what districts and what KIND of machines (note that the broken ones always go to Democratic strongholds).

With local Republicans controlling all the details and the Congressional Republicans refusing to fix a system that obviously favors them — we’re fucked.

I noticed that the link to the Overseas Vote Foundation Document 2004 Election Results no longer works. Futher more if I google the title, I get only references back to copies of your article. Hmmmm….

Chris | 9/25/2006, 7:58 pm EST

The Republican gov’s control literally every single aspect of the voting process: from deciding how many machines go to what districts and what KIND of machines (note that the broken ones always go to Democratic strongholds).

With local Republicans controlling all the details and the Congressional Republicans refusing to fix a system that obviously favors them — we’re fucked
——————

There are 28 Republican governors and 22 democrats, and I am pretty sure Republicans do not control every city and town in ths U.S. So how do the Republicans control everything? The ones who are putting our democracy in danger are the dems. and thier leftist supporters who will do and say anything to regain power.

Elections if would be fair than George W. Bush would not be in office. Electronic machines is the safest way to keep Republicans their majoity in both houses of Congress and hold on to White House. The results will be same for the mid term election as well as in 2008.

Is this a joke? The Diebold response link goes nowhere. Diebold decries “Mr. Kennedy’s shoddy reporting” but doesn’t seem to do anything to rebut Gov. Ehrlich or any of the other sources which support the conclusion that electronic voting can’t be trusted. They just pull the usual right-wing tactic of spinning a bold-faced lie to pretend there are two sides to each of these stories. I am a rational, tax-paying American voter and I have NO confidence that our elections are being accurately tabulated. This is an actual social crisis, not just another tricky day for me. Stay on the job, RFK, Jr.!!!

We know the right leadership lies, why would we think they would not cheat. My guess, is that God told them that they must.

When the democrats win the House in Nov, it will be time to Impeach Bush and his cabinet or corruption.

Diebold, So instead of actual voter fraud, we are to believe that you guys are just exceptionally incompetent? I see… so HOW did you get this contract anyway? Apparently someone at your company left an FTP server unsecured with a folder called ‘rob-georgia’ including various (uncertified) versions of your microcode. So what is that about anyway?

Silly me, thinking that Diebold would actually read or respond to any of us little peoples’ comments.

1) BUSH RIGGED 2 TIMES
2) DNC WAS COMPLICIT BY THEIR SILENCE
3) DNC JEWS MADE A COMPROMISE WITH THE GOP NOT TO PROTEST THE 2 RIGGED ELECTIONS IN EXCHANGE FOR PROSECUTING A WAR AGAINST ISRAEL’S ENEMIES
4) THE ONLY REAL ISSUE IS VOTING.WE WILL CONTINUE TO LIVE IN A DICTATORSHIP UNTIL VOTING IS GUARANTEED ( ONE MACHINE/ONE VOTE )
5) THE ONLY CREDIBLE PERSON ON THIS ISSUE IS BOBBIE

CAMELOT LIVES IN THE HEARTS OF MAN

TinFoilHat – And conviction listed is acurate. I notice you can’t dispute that one.

How about taking the voting machines offline so hackers can’t get in? Just save the results on a hard drive.

Also, they could set up a mandatory second step for voters to go online (or call in) and verify their votes. If anything has been changed they can register a red flag for investigation.

No, you need a verified and secured paper trail. Digital data is always vulnerable to tampering or failure.

“And conviction listed is acurate”
not sure what you’re talking about Cap. Like I said, I can’t spend multiple days on this shit. You’ll have to research it yourself.

How do ordinary citizen fight back when politicians who have a stake in an election so willing concede?

And how does someone fight back when Secretary of States make all the rules by which an election is going to be conducted?

It seems that by the time we’re informed of the threat to our basic Democratic rights of fair voting, there is no time to take the miscreant to court and get the election on fair and equal footing. Besides not all of us are attorneys. When someone who you respected and worked hard for to win backs down without getting a fair accounting of the votes, what can one do on his own?

I might have a voice in my own state to stop protential damming voting machine. But I have little chance of influencing what other states do. I would like there to be a centralize government sponsored fair voting system that is used for all national election. Where, if there is going to be a electronic machine involved, it is looked over by impartial participants by both parties. Where the software running on those system is non-hackable and no patches are applied surreptitiously slightly before, on or during an election.

Galan,
I sincerely hope that you don’t get knocked off over there. I really mean that. And when you get back you will be able to use your GI bill to get an education. Then maybe you can GET A CLUE!

Galan, you are young and brash. Far be it from me to try to reduce your bravado. Where you are, you need it to survive. Suffice it to say you are not impressing me. If you are going to fight for this country, don’t you think you should have at least some idea what it is about? Maybe some idea what you are fighting for? Do you think about this stuff? Perhaps you shouldn’t right now. Like I said, I’m going easy because you need all that testosterone where you’re at. Just realize that your comments are not very meaningful to those of us who are here to discuss real issues.

Just which ‘true soldiers’ are you referring to Mr. Galan? The lifers or the citizen soldiers? The history of the U.S. military is one of service and heroism, none of which could have been accomplished without the citizen soldier. And while you may or may not be 56, your words would seem to portray that your mind hasn’t kept up.

You’re a veteran of numerous actions HERE??? What actions might that be, riding in the back of a pick-up bashing heads?

I fear the night a HELL of a lot more than I fear you. It’s dark and I run into things.

And if you did fight, you sure didn’t fight for no flag. Anyone who ever says that is full of shit. IF you fought, you fought to save your butt.

I sure do hope you are what you appear to be, a teen-ager who’s seen too many war movies, and not a true member of the U.S. military.

Here’s a simple premise. Systems aren’t corrupt, people are.

Another premise, that of the Cons, is that certain people are born to lead. Given that premise, it’s a quick step to the ends justify the means. A true conservative believes that America can’t be trusted to any but the Cons, so, if it takes bending a rule here and there, so be it. Dems do it too, some to combat the Cons, some because they are corrupt and some just for the thrill. But given the wealth and power of the Cons, which side do you think actually effects outcomes on a national scale with their efforts? Rhetorical question.

This country is being lost to wealthy few and their army of dupes. But fear not, life is a series of cycles; after the pendulum swings one way, it will swing another.

So I ask (and maybe some of you will answer)..Why is voting a secret process? Who, way back when, said ok let’s vote and see who wins BUT you can’t let anyone know who you voted for. Funny, that sounds to me like a bunch of elementary school girls who didn’t want their friends mad at them for not picking the other. Why not just say OUT LOUD who you want to vote for? What, all of a sudden when it comes to this decision, after voicing every opinion we have on one or the other candidate/party, (not to mention every topic there is), we suddenly have the need to keep this extremely important choice to ourselves. What’s going to happen? Are family and friends going to abandon us for who we chose? Are we all so afraid that others might know we actually picked the loser? I suppose there are some (or maybe more than I think) who believe that if you didn’t vote for a particular candidate and he lost and found out that you went with the other guy, he’d send his henchmen to your home one night. (That’s all homes to all those who didn’t vote for him of course!!) So, unless you really can’t pronounce the candidates name then I can’t see how anyone would be capable of switching your vote without you and everyone around you knowing about it. Of course, it would probably have to involve paper (don’t have that part figured out yet) but who’s really going to screw with it when you’ve voiced it and several individuals have heard it and then all of you get to witness your vote being registered in some fashion. Besides your spoken vote being registered on the paper maybe we could have teams of 2 (possibly from each party) who actually count the oral vote. (ok. that’s gotta be a boring job but hey it’s not like a full time one). Oh and they can’t sit close together..ha! Give them one of those little push counter things they use to see how many shoppers come into a store. Then when the polls close, each of the teams’ 2 counters should be exact, right? And the total votes from one team when added to the other team(s) should come up with the exact number of voters. If any of these numbers don’t match then time to check it against the spoken/written vote. Well, we should probably count these anyway.

Isn’t saying your vote out loud simply just voicing your opinion. What would Diebold and others do if the voters just refused to push their buttons (or rather,if we actually stopped them from pushing the buttons for us!) It’s just a simple thought..far from many postings I’ve read here tonight and certainly a step back from any advancement in technology. But maybe some things for one reason or another shouldn’t advance in that direction. Especially when it comes at such a high price..your vote.

Galan,
My mistake. Based on your posts, you seemed to be a young gung-ho jar-headed military man. I have spoken with lots of military folks, but I have never met one as old as you who had such little perspective. My mistake. Sorry I assumed anything, it certainly did make an ass out of me. You on the other hand, don’t need any help.

Katie,

Believe it or not, we still NEED a secret ballot. Perhaps the instances of physical violence are gone, perhaps, but certainly there are other forms of coercion. Jobs can be at stake and certainly careers. Can you imagine a rising young corporate manager progressing if it was discovered he didn’t vote the way the corporation wished? The flip side is the unions. Nor all corporations; not all unions. But enough.

You’ve witnessed the acrimony displayed on this site. And you know the old adage about power corrupting. If the ‘ins’ can bully this country into invading another, do you imagine it would be shy about voter coercion?

You’re making this too complicated, it’s really quite simple guys. These companies are proprietary unregulated and they won’t even release their code for review because it constitutes a “business secret”. This situation is UNACCEPTABLE. Even if there is no one using this situation to subvert the vote (which I doubt) the perception of irregularities is enough to throw doubt on the integrity of the system. And THAT is enough to threaten our beloved democracy in and of itself. If we are to use these machines, there should be a paper trail for verification and the process should be TRANSPARENT PERIOD.

Interesting posts – folks. Let’s keep it clean and respectful, though, ok?

Tin Foil Hat is right on the money – voting receipts will lead to pay for play schemes, could impact employment opportunities, etc. That’s not the answer, but security is. Ecommerce allows us to do business online with our banks, the government (tax filing) and the like, so why not voting machines? Yes, any machine in any industry could be hacked into, but security is the answer. The issue is bigger than Urosevich, and bigger than Diebold. It’s determing how to improve security around existing machines and/or what internet voting would look like.

I also think that if people would just go out and actually VOTE, a 200k difference in votes in an election wouldn’t mean anything. Voter turnout in the US is an embarrassment.

I’m still amazed at the whole sour-grapes, sore-loserism “the election was stolen” routine coming from the left side of the aisle.

If cleaning up our elections is so important, why are so many of the “stolen election” gripers opposed to measures designed to legitimize the process and help guarantee the legitimacy of the process?

After the 2000 Presidential debacle, democrats, republicans, and indepents were demanding electronic voting machines. After the US Congress made those systems mandatory, another election, this time in 2004, was held. Those on the left were equally disappointed in those results, and once again resorted to the “stolen election” whinerism, despite the fact that they were proponents of the new electronic system.

Now that other means of stopping election fraud are being introduced, especially the somehow novel idea that people should be able to prove they are who they say they are by showing an ID, the “stolen election” conspiracists and their political allies are coming up with innumerable reasons why such policies shouldn’t be implemented.

I’d like to respectfully submit that these individuals believe that someone is committing election fraud is that they’ve been doing, and if they’ve been doing it, then obviously the other guys have been doing it, too…especially since they’re republicans. Further, these people don’t want to curtail fraud in elections, they just want the other side to stop doing it better than they’re doing it. Lastly, the only way we’re going to get democrats to accept an election as “legitimate” and/or “not stolen” is by having a democrat win.

This whole mess wouldn’t even be an issue now if Al Gore would’ve had the good graces to follow in Richard Nixon’s footsteps (how hard could it be to be a stand-up guy if Nixon could do it…in the face of the dead people who voted in Chicago, no less?) and concede the election.

Sincerely,
Clare nce

So “America” now you know but what are you going to do against this? Do you have the courage and the strenght to fight for true changes or are you just too brain-washed and plaint in accepting that your vote never has count since 1996 and maybe never will??

The bottom line is: If you have a system that is capable of being cheated it will be. Human nature guarantees that. The big question is: If we can build (relatively) foolproof systems like ATMs (same company no less) why accept anything less for voting?

i’m so certain the midterms will be fixed and the republicans will still control both houses that i’m taking bets with all of my friends ..i’m absolutely certain i will win. The sad part of the whole thing is the absolute wimpiness of the democratic party. Why don’t they lead the charge and stand up to these republican thugs?

LRB,

Good point. Part of the ‘problem’ in elections is the politics of who gets to vote. I think anyone who is a citizen should be allowed, unless you’re in jail as a convicted felon. Speaking of felonies, perhaps voter fraud and other crimes of influencing elections should be felonies as well.

Dogwood,

I’m afraid you’re right about fixing. And the Dems weren’t always wimps. There was a time when the unions were ALL Dem and there were some tough studs. But they got better and better pay and benefits, thanks to the Dems and that emasculated them.

Folks you might as well prepare yourself for another travesty regarding these upcoming elections which will be a repeat of what occurred in 2000 and 2oo4. This election will be stolen just like those prior to it because Dubya and his minions will not allow mere votes to prevent them from changing the course of their agenda in marshalling in the destruction of this country. So get ready to hoop and holler about the outcome to no avail while these neo-cons retain their grip on power.

my wife voted for kerry and at the end where you review your choices her vote said bush! it did this twice. the person in charge of the poll didn’t seem to care. stated “well did we get it right this time!” i wonder why this didn’t happen the other way around!

I read Kennedy’s response to Diebold’s letter to Kennedy’s original article. Pity this isn’t a peer review magazine. Neither one of them hoisted convincing arguments against the other.

With respect to hacking, hackers have no politics or, hackers have all politics – no one has proven that all hackers are republican. I assume there are Democrat hackers out there too. I would assume that Republicans aren’t intelligent enough to hack a computer system but I would be wrong. Lotsa script bunnies out there.

A nation that has dishonest elections. A nation that openly tortures. A nation that imprisons its poor. A nation that regularly starts wars. A people who do nothing.

Remember when we used paper ballots and hand counted them in full public view and posted the results at the precinct level. Ahhh, those were the good old days when people participated in their elections. We need to return to that. Think of the money we would save from buying these pieces of crap machines, and could pay poll workers a decent wage to work that important day.

I work for the 3rd largest software company in the world as a developer and I can tell you that more of a threat than hacking is incorrect data as what happened in Texas. Votes being counted more than once. Votes not being counted because of a bad metric. The possibilities are endless. Dealing with network data we see these instances all the time. I cannot imagine the mergin of error when you are trying to calculate the election all in one evening.

Scary to say the least. Especially if there is no reliable error checkin in place.

But yes, Hacking is also an issue. Run spybot or adware on your machine at home that you think is secure and see how many trogans and bots it finds. Heck, run it on your work machine and see what happens. My company even had a trojan affect the whole NorthEast a few years ago and we sell virus software!!!

jonny118

I like the post of Potsey (11/1/2006) and his comment about hand counting ballots at the precinct level. This can easily be acheived by first establishing a “STAND ALONE FEDERAL ELECTION”. The only items that would require a vote are:- “PRESIDENT”, “SENATOR” and “CONGRESSMAN”.
All State issues, County issues, City issues, Scool Boards, Judges, Propositions and Dogcatchers should be decided at a State or Local Election at a different time.
The “FEDERAL ELECTION” should be funded by the Federal Government and would have a standard ballot all over the country.
Just like the rest of the world!
This is a simple method of conducting a National Election and does not require the dreaded voting machines.
Way to go “Potsey”!

jonny221

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