.

Prog Rock Pioneer Greg Lake: 'Punk Is Not a Form of Music. It's a Fashion Statement.'

ELP frontman on his desire to reunite with King Crimson and getting sampled by Kanye West

Greg Lake performs his solo concert Songs of a Lifetime at Auditorium Manzoni in Bologna, Italy.
Roberto Serra - Iguana Press/Redferns via Getty Images
March 5, 2013 1:00 PM ET

As a co-founder of King Crimson, Greg Lake is without a doubt one of the inventors of progressive rock. His voice powers classics like "In the Court of the Crimson King" and "21st Century Schizoid Man" (recently sampled by Kanye West on "Power"), and as the frontman of the Seventies prog supergroup Emerson, Lake and Palmer he wrote, sang and produced hits including "Lucky Man" and "From the Beginning."

Despite these accomplishments, Lake has never gotten much critical acclaim. His key role in the development of King Crimson is often overlooked, and Emerson, Lake and Palmer are perhaps the least respected of the progressive rock giants – and that's really saying something. Many of the original punk bands pointed to them as the main reason their revolution had to happen, mocking everything from their stage outfits to their massive light shows to their very name.

Keith Emerson, Greg Lake and Carl Palmer don't get along very well these days, and they've only managed a single concert in the past decade. Lake tours on his own, performing the one-man show Songs of a Lifetime. It features music from his days in King Crimson, ELP and his solo career. In a unique twist, he invites fans onstage to share their memories of the songs. He also has an autobiography coming out called Lucky Man

King Crimson Celebrate 40th Anniversary With Rhythm and Grace

We spoke to Greg Lake about the early days of King Crimson, the fall of ELP, his desire to reunite with both acts, getting sampled by Kanye West, and why he feels that punk isn't real music.  

Why did you decide this was a good time to both write an autobiography and do a one-man career retrospective show?
Because I'm old. [Laughs] Really, I was writing my book and I thought to myself, "Most people have some story attached to the songs they hold dear." They were at a certain place where they met their girlfriend, or somebody even died, perhaps. They link it in some way, or they find comfort in some piece of music. It struck me that I have stories about these songs. I thought, "What a good idea it would be to create some sort of environment where we could play these songs and exchange these stories." That was the hub of the idea.

I was determined to not make it one of those shows where you just sit on a stool and just strum folk songs all night. I really wanted it to be a dynamic show. There are moments that are very loud and intense, and there are moments that are really beautiful and placid. 

Strangely enough, one of the best parts is listening to the audience themselves. It's like a rollercoaster some nights. Some people have the place in tears, and five minutes later everybody is laughing. 

I want to go back a bit here and talk about your past. First off, why do you think the original King Crimson broke up so quickly after the first album? The whole thing was so brief.
Yes, that's right. We were only together, the original King Crimson, for one album and one tour. The tour went around England and it also went to the United States. When we reached the end of the tour in the U.S.A,  Mike Giles, the drummer and Ian McDonald, who would play flute, Mellotron and saxophone, they decided they didn't much enjoy life on the road. I think they particularly didn't like flying, and they just didn't like travel and the whole hectic life on the road.

They decided to work in the studio exclusively. I think perhaps that the Beatles, making that same decision, influenced them, in a way. They saw the Beatles back off from live gigs and go into the studio. I suppose they thought that was maybe a thing to do.

Anyway, that was their decision. Robert Fripp, who I grew up with . . . we even went to the same guitar teacher. We were old friends, and he wanted to continue on with King Crimson. I just didn't feel good about it because Ian, particularly, wrote a lot of the material. Also, Mike was a great drummer. They were so fundamental in the makeup and the chemistry of the band. I just didn't feel it was honest to get two new people in and pretend that nothing had happened.

I said to Robert, "If you want to form a new band, I'm happy to do that. But I just don't feel comfortable carrying on with the name King Crimson." He said, "Well, do you mind if I do that?" I said, "No, no, no, no, not at all. If you want to do it, that's fine." So that's what Robert did. 

Strangely enough – and this was an absolute coincidence – on the night this happened, King Crimson was playing at the Fillmore West in San Francisco. This is one of the few things I can remember clearly from that period. We were on the bill with the Chambers Brothers and a group called the Nice, who had Keith Emerson on keyboards. We were all booked in the same hotel, and after the show I went down to the bar and met Keith Emerson. 

I started talking to Keith, and he said, "How's King Crimson going? I hear you're doing real well." I said, "Well, sadly, Keith, it's come to an end. You know, the two boys . . . " I explained the story to him. He said, "Strangely enough, I've reached the end with the Nice. I just can't take it any further. I've done everything I can. I feel limited now."

So anyway, that was the beginning of ELP, on that very same night. It's very weird, but there you go. Strange things happen sometime.s Music and the music business is sort of very fortuitous. It's very circumstantial. 

That first King Crimson album really changed the world. When you were making it, did you realize you were making something really bold and different?
It's a strange thing to say, but I have to tell you I did feel that way. We did feel it as a group. We knew the chemistry was unusual, and the reason we knew that is because when the band played live we really shocked people. I think that was the case because up until that time, the music they heard was essentially United States-inspired. The influences had been drawn from blues, gospel, country and western, jazz, early rock & roll, Motown. These were the influences of rock at the time.

It was a very strange thing to hear a rock band taking their influences from European music, as King Crimson did. I mean, I didn't sing with a mid-Atlantic accent. I sang with a British accent. The music of King Crimson was drawn almost exclusively based on more European structures. It wasn't the three-minute single. It wasn't basic blues-riff music. This was using very different harmonic components, different structures, so it wouldn't be verse, chorus, verse, verse, chorus, verse, verse, chorus. The structures were individual and not necessarily any given or prescribed length.

The sheer lineup of the band, too, was unusual. Ian on flute, and just having a Mellotron. The other interesting thing about the band is that it was more orchestral. It wasn't like the Moody Blues, sort of mild and gentle and symphonic. It was intense. Things like "21st Century Schizoid Man" would literally scare people.

Then suddenly there's Yes and Genesis and all these other prog bands. You guys really kicked off so much music in the Seventies.
I drew influences from people as well. That's how musicians grow up. They absorb like a sponge. You absorb the influences and process them through yourself, and hopefully come out with something original.

Yeah. It was just a particularly big step forward.
Yeah, I think there was some sense of some sort of a quantum leap happening. But I have to be honest with you, it wasn't so much like we sat down and planned it that way. I think the times had something to do with it. There was a moment in time where new awarenesses were being experienced. People were doing LSD, and it expanded the type of thinking going on. There was something about the atmosphere of the streets, certainly in London at the time. You could feel the sort of excitement about the youth of the day taking control from the establishment.

I've seen Robert Fripp say recently that he's done with Crimson and done with touring. I know that fans have this fantasy where the group will end by going full circle with the five original guys playing the first album straight though. Is that at all possible?
[Laughs] I'm often asked this question and my answer is always the same: I certainly would be prepared to do it. I've always felt that if someone is good enough to buy your album, that you owe them a performance. I also think it would be very emotional, and very cathartic in a lot of ways. Robert and I get on OK, to be honest, but there were a lot of strange feelings that happened through the career of King Crimson. Mike didn't feel . . . or perhaps they regretted leaving. I would be happy to do it. Whether it will happen, of course, is another matter.

I'm thinking it should be 2019 for the 50th anniversary of the album.
There you go. Phone Robert up and tell him. [Laughs] Tell Robert him Greg says so. [Laughs]

Let's switch over the Emerson, Lake and Palmer . . .
Oh, do you have to? [Laughs]

By the late Seventies critics really turned on you guys. You became the embodiment of rock excess. Did that perception bother you?
I think there is truth in the fact that the group was pretentious. You don't make an omelet without cracking eggs. We wanted to try and move things forward and do something new and break boundaries. It was important for us to be original. Certainly the early albums . . . I'm talking now especially about Tarkus, Trilogy and Brain Salad Surgery. Those records were really great and innovative. There were members of the press that didn't love us, but the public loved us.

I'm very proud of ELP, but it wasn't the journalists that brought down ELP. I think it was ELP themselves. It started to fragment when they made Works Volume 1. It was a good album, but it wasn't ELP. It was Keith Emerson, Greg Lake and Carl Palmer with an orchestra. Well, with three separate orchestras. [Laughs]

The album went platinum, and I can say with all the humility that I can muster that there were some great tracks on the record. But it wasn't a record that reflected the chemistry of ELP. It reflected the individuals apart from each other.  There are some tracks, like "Pirates," for example, which stand up on their own. Leonard Bernstein liked that song a lot. But the truth of it was that Works Volume 1 was the beginning of the end. After that, ELP never made another really innovative record.

I've seen countless rock documentaries. Whenever they get to punk they show some late Seventies ELP concert footage, where Keith is playing some gigantic keyboard. Do you get sick of being known as the band that caused punk?
Well, no . . . Look, you've got to understand. Punk is not a form of music. It's a fashion statement. If you wanna talk about real punk music, you've gotta look at people like the Who, the Rolling Stones . . . the people who initially had that kind of punk attitude, that right-up-in-your-face thing. But they had a form of music to go along with it. This sort of thrashing away on a chord and just screaming abuse through a microphone doesn't constitute art to me. 

You know, you can call anything art, right? You say it's art, it's art. But I don't think the music will stand up in the test of time. The fashion may. It may be a fashion icon thing with the safety pin through the nose, the kilt, the stupid, spiky hair and all that. But really, what does it stand for other than trying to jump on the publicity bandwagon to make money from rock music? That's all it was. Then following that, it was a genre a week. New Wave, garage . . . There was a genre a week. 

I say all this, but not trying to deny that progressive music – not only ELP,  by the way, but a lot of other so-called progressive bands – really did disappear up their own ass. They really did look like turkeys. It all became so overblown.

I must say, in defense of ELP, although we did some extravagant things – though they look tame and restrained by today's standards – but at the time we had 140 people on the road with 11 tractor trailers. We had our own doctor and all these crazy things. But for us, it was not just trying to be as loud and as big as we could. We were always trying to go one step further, one step bigger. In the end, it became a huge production, but it wasn't gratuitous. It was linked directly to the music. It wasn't just production for its own sake.

The demise of ELP was not brought about by different kinds of music, but more by the splintering of the group's chemistry. We broke up, in a way, although we remained together and have done albums since then, but the chemistry was never the same. Incidentally, I will mention to you that I did produce those early albums, and I did not produce any albums after Works Volume 1.

But it wasn't just a matter of me producing. I think it's a matter of chemistry. When a band works together amongst just themselves, you get a kind of pure, undiluted chemistry. The cocktail is undiluted, and therefore very strong.

I love your early ELP song  "From the Beginning."
I've always seen that as a special song. I don't know where it came from. I just felt an inspiration to do it, and it flowed through me in a natural way. My hands fell upon these very unusual chords. It's a very simple song, but the chords are very unusual. It was kind of a gift.

ELP played a single concert a couple of summers ago. Why just the one? Why not tour?
I don't know. It frustrates me. Frankly, it takes a lot of energy and determination to reach a playing standard that people expect from a band like ELP. The expectation is very high. People are coming to see the legendary ELP. What do they expect? I'll tell you. They expect to see the band they heard on record or saw on tour in 1974. And now we're 40 years older, and you've got to do it the same. That takes some doing.  

To read the new issue of Rolling Stone online, plus the entire RS archive: Click Here

prev
Music Main Next

blog comments powered by Disqus
Daily Newsletter

Get the latest RS news in your inbox.

Sign up to receive the Rolling Stone newsletter and special offers from RS and its
marketing partners.

X

We may use your e-mail address to send you the newsletter and offers that may interest you, on behalf of Rolling Stone and its partners. For more information please read our Privacy Policy.

Song Stories

“American Girl”

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers | 1976

It turns out that a single with "American" in its title--recorded on the Fourth of July during the nation's Bicentennial, no less--can actually sell better in Britain. Coupled with the Heartbreakers' flair for Byrds jangle and Animals hooks, though, is Tom Petty's native-Florida drawl that keeps this classic grounded at home. Petty dispelled rumors that the song was about a suicidal student, explaining that the inspiration came from when he was 25 and used to salute the highway traffic outside his apartment window. "It sounded like the ocean to me," he recalled. "That was my ocean. My Malibu. Where I heard the waves crash, but it was just the cars going by."

More Song Stories entries »
 
www.expandtheroom.com