What artist do you really feel has not been recorded right that you'd like to record?

Bob Dylan.

How would you record him?

I'd do a Dylan opera with him. I'd produce him. You see, he's never been produced. He's always gone into the studio on the strength of his lyrics, and they have sold enough records to cover up everything -- all the honesty of his records. But he's never really made a production. He doesn't really have to.

His favorite song is "Like a Rolling Stone," and it stands to reason because that's his grooviest song, as far as songs go. It may not be the greatest thing he ever wrote, but I can see why he gets the most satisfaction out of it, because rewriting "La Bamba" chord changes is always a lot of fun, and any time you can make a Number One record and rewrite those kind of changes, it is very satisfying.

I think Mick Jagger could be a lot of fun to record. It's not just the big artists; I think Janis Joplin leaves a lot to be desired recordingwise. How well she can sing when she's way up front I don't know. How well she would sing under different circumstances I don't know.

Many of the artists today just sing; they don't really interpret anything. I mean, the Doors don't interpret. They're not interpreters of music. They sing ideas. The Beach Boys have always sung ideas -- they've never been interpreters. The Beatles interpret; "Yesterday" meant something. Whereas "Good Vibrations" was a nice idea on which everybody sort of grooved.

You were associated with the Stones when they first started. Was there any talk of you becoming their producer?

Um, yeah, but Andrew [Loog Oldham] was involved at that time, and he was sort of . . . they told me he tried to be like me in England. I saw them in America a few times. The first time they came, they did awful; their tours were bombing. They got hung up in hotel rooms, and nobody knew what was going on.

What did you think of Beggars Banquet?

Well, they're just makin' hit records now. There was a time when the Stones were really writing contributions. See, that's a big word to me -- contributions.

What were the songs at the time?

"Satisfaction" was a contribution. They've had a few contributions. See, there's a difference: Other than one or two numbers, Johnny Rivers is not a contribution to music; he never will be; he never can be. I don't care if all the Johnny Rivers fans say "boo." Just like Murray Roman will never be a comedian. There's just certain people who just don't have it. Moby Grape will never be a contribution. There are a lot of groups that will never be a contribution. 'Cause if you listen to just one Muddy Waters record, you've heard everything Moby Grape's gonna ever do.

What about John Lennon?

I haven't spoken to Lennon in some time, so I don't know where he's at now. But I have a feeling that Yoko may not be the greatest influence on him. I mean, I don't know, but I have a feeling that he's a far greater talent than she is.

But I think without question he is the leader of that group, and he makes the decisions. I'd like to know how the Beatles feel about him and what he is going through. I almost get the feeling that they want to help him, but I don't think they really can, because he's always way ahead of them.

You came over with the Beatles when they first came to the States. What was that like?

It was a lot of fun. It was probably the only time I flew that I wasn't afraid, because I knew that they weren't goin' to get killed in a plane.

They were terribly frightened of America. They even said, "You go first." 'Cause the whole thing about Kennedy scared them very, very much. They really thought it would be possible for somebody to be there and want to kill them. The assassination really dented them tremendously -- their image of America. Just like it dented everybody's image of the Secret Service.

Why do you think the Beatles' first release in this country didn't make it?

Timing. Bad timing. What else could you attribute it to but timing? It has to be timing. It has to be. I mean, I can't think of any other reason except that we weren't ready for it. They probably weren't exposed, and we weren't ready for it. Now we can look back and say, "Yeah, we were fucked up," but we could not look back then at all. I would imagine, time and maturity. Great amount of luck involved, too. Elvis Presley is another guy.

Do you think he's gonna come back?

Oh, he should, man. He is never gonna die. Somebody ought to cut an album of him singin' the blues. You know there's a strong belief -- and judging from what I saw and heard at NBC, I believed it -- that when he goes into a room with Colonel Parker, he's one way, and when he comes out, he's another way. You know, it's possible Colonel Parker hypnotizes him. That's the truth, too, and I can tell you six or seven people who believe it, too, who are not jiveass people. I mean, he actually changes. He'll tell you, "Yes, yes, yes," and then he'll go in that room, and when he comes out it's "No, no, no." Now, nobody can con you like that. I wonder about that.

What has he got that has survived the worst recording-career direction in history?

He's a great singer. Gosh, he's so great. You have no idea how great he is, really, you don't. You have absolutely no comprehension -- it's absolutely impossible. I can't tell you why he's so great, but he is.

What do you think about music now? Rock & roll music obviously has this tremendous thing with young people.

I'm getting a little tired of hearing about, you know, everybody's emotional problems. I mean it's too wavy. Like watching a three- or four-hour movie. I'm getting so fed up with it. No concept of melody -- just goes on and on with the lyric. They're making it a fad. If it had more music, it would last, but it can't last this way.

They are really going to kill the music if they keep it up, because they're not writing songs anymore. They are only writing ideas. They don't really care about repetition. They don't care about a hook or melody.

You did some of the first -- I hesitate to use the phrase -- "message songs." Like "Spanish Harlem." What was the reaction in the record industry at that time to that kind of thing?

That record was a monster. The Drifters . . . well, that was to be the follow-up to "Save the Last Dance for Me," and then Ben E. King decided that he'd been screwed and wanted to go on his own. And then he chose that song, which drove me crazy.

I think the record industry just accepted it I don't think they knew it was a message or it wasn't a message. I don't think they knew anything. I think it was just there, but I don't think anyone really thought it was a hit; nobody did. Nobody really understood it at first, then it started to grow on people, and it made sense. I don't know. I love it, and it says a lot for me. Did you know it was Lenny Bruce's favorite song?

Of the records that you've been involved with and you've done, which do you like the most?

Well, in the beginning I made a lot of records that I didn't put names on and nobody knows about, and it's better that way. But of those that you know of, I would imagine "Be My Baby" and "Lovin' Feelin'" are the most satisfying. "River Deep" is a satisfying record.

I mean, I could tell you how "Lovin' Feelin'" was made. I could tell you I'm the greatest fuckin' record producer who ever lived and that I'll eat up all these cats in the studio if they want to put their mouths right there and their money right there.

"He's a Rebel," it's fine; the "Da Doo Ron Ron" is fine. I'm not interested in knocking everybody's brain cause I'll always make a good record, and it'll be better than all that shit out there today.

'Cause they really don't know how to record. They don't know anything about depth, about sound, about technique, about slowing down. One company does know something -- that's Motown. They know how to master a record. You put on a Motown record, and it jumps at you.

How did your association with Ike and Tina first come about?

They were introduced to me. Somebody told me to see them, and their in-person act just killed me. I mean, they were just sensational.

Have you seen it lately?

Yeah, I saw them at the Factory, of all places. They were . . . well, I always loved Tina. I never knew how great she was. She really is as great as Aretha is.

Why couldn't the Righteous Brothers make it without you?

I don't know if they couldn't have, but they really should have. I would imagine for the same reason that Mary Wells and Roy Orbison, the Everly Brothers all had only temporary success, if any, when they switched. The Righteous Brothers in particular were a strange group in that they really were non-intellectual and unable to comprehend success. They couldn't understand it and couldn't live with it and accept it for what it really was. They thought it was something that could be obtained very easily and once it was attained, it could be consistently obtained.

Really, they were not sophisticated enough to present themselves honestly. We really didn't bring them out honestly, except on the album. I mean, those records were made, those songs were written; "Lovin' Feelin'" was not just a song. It was a song song, and you can't just go into the studio and sing "He Can Turn the Tide" and expect everybody to fall down.

Now, I don't know what the situation was with Roy Orbison or Mary Wells. I heard there were a lot of different things, but for the Righteous Brothers, I just think it was a great loss, because the two of them weren't exceptional talents, but they did have a musical contribution to make. I loved them; I thought they were a tremendous expression for myself. I think they resented being an expression. I think now if they had it to do again, they never would have left.

What do you think the difference is going to be between the audience today, and the audience's reaction to music today, as compared to five dears ago?

I don't know. Everybody's a helluva lot hipper today, I'll tell you that. There's thirteen-year-old whores walkin' the streets now. It wouldn't have happened as much five years ago. Not thirteen-year-old drug addicts. It's a lot different today. I tell you the whole world is a dropout. I mean, everybody's a fuck-off. Everybody's miniskirted, everybody's hip, everybody reads all the books. How in the hell you gonna overcome all that? Sophistication, hipness, everything. They're really very hip today.

You're not worried that you won't be able to make the change?

If anybody's going to have to worry, they're going to have to worry. Not me, 'cause I'm comin' back! You know, I don't know if there has been a change, because if 6 million kids still buy the Monkees, then there hasn't been a change. They're the same 6 million who bought honky records five years ago.

[Excerpt From Issue 45 — November 1, 1969]