Considering his onstage antics once embodied irreverence, it's almost ironic how revered Nick Cave has become. At forty, Cave holds but a hazy resemblance to his former self, the snarling Birthday Party frontman who fifteen-odd years ago spit out directives like "Release the Bats" and assaults like "Big Jesus Trash Can." |

Now, the London-based novelist, poet, and singer/songwriter lectures at places like the Vienna Poetry Academy about writing the perfect love song. He has been asked by an English publishing company to write an introduction for the Gospel According to Mark, one of the twelve books of the Bible they are publishing. Cave recently appeared on David Letterman during a Stateside tour in support of The Best of Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds despite his declaration after Lollapalooza four years ago that he would not set foot on these shores again. Two years ago he was nominated for MTV's Best Male Artist award, though he graciously requested it be withdrawn. And he is busy helping raise his seven-year-old son, Luke.

With his States tour about halfway through, Cave -- currently backed by his Bad Seeds as well as Dirty Three violinist Warren Ellis -- is beginning work on the follow-up to last year's introspective The Boatman's Call. From his Boston hotel, he spoke candidly about depression, the Bible and middle age.

I've been reading that you let [longtime Bad Seed guitarist] Mick Harvey pick all the tracks for your Best Of CD. Why is that?

I think the songs that were chosen on there are the ones that I would have chosen anyway. It's just that Mick tends to be a bit more hands on about some of the more practical matters around the group, such as writing a list of songs that has to go on a particular record. It's just the kind of thing that I never get around to doing and Mick does.

Did the project force you to look at your own career in a different light?

It has certainly opened my mind up to what an extraordinary band the Bad Seeds are, which I think is something I tended to take for granted myself -- how they have an incredible understanding of music, particularly the kind of music that would serve the songs that I actually write.

Were there any revelations about your own writing at different points of your work, looking at it in segments like that?

I've always known that I've been kind of banging on about the same things pretty much, but I've not really quite known what it was. I think it's become quite clear with this record that I've been trying to write the great love song, or the best love song that I possibly can. That's been my major preoccupation throughout my career. I think I'm getting closer and closer to achieving that. There has to be acknowledgement for the potential of pain, and I think that exists within all of my songs. That there is an element of pain in them, and if there wasn't I don't think they would be good songs. I don't trust songs that don't have a kind of sigh within the lines somewhere. That's really what my songs are about. I don't think they'll ever change.

What makes the perfect love song?

You have to come to my class. I've written a forty-minute lecture on it.

You've said that in the old days you were obsessed with the Old Testament and in the Nineties more the New Testament. What sparked the transition?

When I started reading the Bible, which was when I was about twenty -- although I was very familiar with it because I had gone to church when I was a child -- I went to the Old Testament initially. It was the God of the Old Testament that I responded to quite strongly, which was a punitive, jealous, bloodthirsty, angry, mean-spirited, small-minded God. I really kind of was quite intrigued by his behavior in the Old Testament and thought the world deserved a God like him. I guess at some point over the years, things change as they do. You start to see the world in a different way. I guess the New Testament called to me, which was a much softer, sadder, more introverted voice. I guess you can see that going on in the songwriting as well.

Is there an approach you're going to take in teaching your son about the Bible?

Yes, there is. I'm going to ram it down his throat. I make him recite slabs of the Bible and if he gets it wrong he has to have his arms outstretched and I put really heavy Bibles on the backs of his hands. ... No, not really. My son is familiar with the Bible, through what I've told him about it. He's actually quite interested in it frighteningly enough.

I know you were good friends with Michael Hutchence. Has there been something that helps pull you out of deep depressions like he was in?

If I'm depressed I welcome it as much as any other emotion. I think this whole idea of trying to find some cure for depression only exacerbates the problem. When I'm sad or when I'm melancholy, I find these things are very much needed. When I try to deny myself these feelings, that's when things start going wrong.

I saw a Mitsubishi commercial that has the riff from Iggy Pop's "Lust for Life." Is there anyone who has approached you on your music?

I've been approached lots of times. We're in the process of suing a tampon company for ripping off "Red Right Hand," which I think is a great idea actually, particularly the title and everything. Not a very good advertisement for their tampons, you know what I mean. Anyway, it seems they have done that, but I absolutely refuse to let an advertising company use my stuff.

Well, I was a bit disappointed to see Iggy's song used for that.

I love that song and I'd hate to see it on a car commercial myself, but you know everyone has their own reasons for doing things and I'm not one to point my finger at someone else. Both me and Iggy Pop have been given very long careers and I think a lot of that has to do with sticking to guns about things. I think we've been allowed to continue because of that, because we haven't sold ourselves out in some way. It's not really a difficult thing to do to say no to money, I find.

How is the rock & roll lifestyle different at forty from the Birthday Party years?

When I was younger, I was very much in a state of rebellion about things. I needed to be that way. But I don't consider myself to be young anymore. I'm happy not to be young. The great thing about not being young is I don't have to hang around with young people anymore. Now that I'm old, I can do other things, which is work out how to be old with some kind of dignity and some kind of grace. That is what's working behind my life at the moment. The last thing I want to do is to spend my life chasing after youth. That just ends up being deeply embarrassing for everyone. I'm very happy to relinquish it. I like being old. I prefer it. I kind of feel I always was old in a way. I just had to catch up.

MARLENE GOLDMAN (September 17, 1998)