It's been three years since the eight-piece British anarchist collective Chumbawamba, pummeled their way onto American airwaves with the ubiquitous "Tubthumping." With its catchy, persistent refrain, "I get knocked down/But I get up again/You're never gonna keep me down," the song became the definitive frat and bar anthem heard on every radio station from Modern Rock to light FMs. But three years is a long time, and despite the one-hit-wonder tag practically tattooed on their foreheads, Chumbawamba are going about their business same as ever.

They recently re-entered the pop arena with their follow-up to Tubthumper, the pointedly titled, WSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). And what you get is a collection of songs whose musical and lyrical inspiration is the entire pop cultural landscape. "I'm With Stupid," berates boy bands and teen pop with lyrics like "Another white boy band/They're happy on demand/Everything is bland." Rowdy Woodstock concert-goers get their share on "I'm Not Sorry I Was Having Fun," which parodies the lyrics of Joni Mitchell's classic, "Woodstock": "By the time I got to Woodstock/It was going up in flames." The smart-ass social commentary is wrapped up in the sometimes fragile, sometimes edgy vocals of Alice Nutter, Lou Watts, Dunstan Bruce and Danbert Nobacon, while the record is awash with dance beats, pop melodies and doo-wop harmonies, to name a few of the pop conventions used to carry their highly charged, political music. However, as caustic and unflinching as Chumbawamba are on record, guitarist Boff fields questions on the band's future and political stance with humor and directness.

Do Chumbawamba ever feel caught in a difficult position being part of pop culture and being critical of it in your music?

Sometimes, but I think if we are in that position it's our fault. We purposely do things to shoot ourselves in the foot. We want kind of a laugh. We want to enjoy it. We don't just want a career. But it's great. It's a fantastic life being in a band, compared to most jobs. It's really easy, but at the same time we can't sort of help wanting to mess it up a little bit for ourselves.

Did the success of Tubthumper affect how you went about making this record?

Yeah a little bit. We had no pressure from the record company, which was really good. But we have to think about the fact that we're suddenly playing to a lot of different kinds of people now and that we were going to have the opportunity to go to the States or to Japan or where ever simply because of the last record. We wanted to take that into account, but we definitely had pressure on ourselves not to do something similar, because that was the one thing we felt we wouldn't be able to forgive ourselves for.

WYSIWYG's lyrics are more focused on the U.S. Was that deliberate or just what was on your minds?

It was what we were thinking about but not because of being in America a lot. More because of being all over the world and seeing that American thing everywhere else. I know it looks like there are many references to do with being in America, but they're not really. For instance, things like Jerry Springer or any number of things on there. They're about hearing those things, seeing those things in every city in the world and thinking, it's amazing this advertising culture, TV culture, political culture or whatever it is, has taken over the world.

Does the band have a systematic way of choosing what subjects to cover?

Yeah we just sit down and have endless discussions about it, drink lots of cups of tea and have all these fantastic ideas. Then we meet a week later and decide that the ideas were rubbish and start again. It's just a matter of eight people sitting down and talking until we come up with something that we think, 'We've got to do that.'

What were some of the ideas that you tossed out?

We had about twelve or thirteen songs that were about famous dead people. We had like a song about Princess Di, a song about Sid Vicious, a song about Richard Nixon -- all these different songs about dead people and it all just seemed a bit downbeat. We wanted to make it livelier, so we scrapped all that. And we tried two or three different things, until we came up with what we had.

One of the subjects on the album is boy bands and teen pop. The musical landscape now is very different than it was three years ago. Is there a place for Chumbawamba?

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't, to be honest. I think that if the whole teen manufactured band culture occupies whatever space that it occupies, we occupy a space that's three million miles away from it. Because you know, even if some of the music is beautifully done it's such cynical music to me. It's so completely and utterly ignorant of anything other than market forces, which is completely the opposite of what we are. I think that we're trying desperately to do our own little thing and despite the fact that it might not sell very well, we say forget that, let's just do it. I mean, the state of the charts is just absolutely appalling at the moment.

Travis is the latest big band from the U.K. in America, do you like them?

Yeah, they're all right. It's funny they've just sort of caught on in the States. They make really nice music, but it's funny because I bought their album a while ago and I really like it, but the lead singer (Fran Healy) met Cherie Blair, who is Tony Blair's wife, and they swapped addresses. And I thought, this is not what I want my rock & roll to be. So, I think it's very conservative music, but it's nice all the same. I tell you who I can't stand who's big right now here is Slipknot. They're in the press a lot over here. Not keen on that. I think that people in places like the Midwest, there's not such easy access to a lot of pop culture, so this is something that is rebellious. And I think that's quite hopeful, I just wish it was something with a little more substance, and more than outrage and grossing out your parents. I think that there are a lot more things to fight against in the world than that.

If Chumbawamba doesn't have a single that's as big as "Tubthumping" will you be disappointed?

No, no. Definitely not. Don't mind. It's like, it's a good thing to have people listening to stuff because, I mean, how many records do Backstreet Boys sell? It means absolutely nothing. It has nothing to do with quality or inspiration.

But will it frustrate you that you're not getting your message across?

Not really, because I think sometimes we do something that gives us a chance to say things, but sometimes we do things and we don't, and that's fine. We prove to ourselves that we're not just doing everything to get on national radio and national TV. Because if we wanted to do that, we'd find a bunch of really good looking young blokes and make some really nice records -- which we obviously thought of, but we haven't put it together yet.

CHRISTINA SARACENO
(May 13, 2000)